aka Contrarian

Well. you dont know me, so move on. As I said, I dont care what you think, nor do I feel the need to defend my position. You are totally preoccupied with and filled with resentment toward white men. That's your problem. Not, mine. So continue sulking.

Obviously, I preferred men who I was comfortable to be around since I stayed married to a black husband of 50 years.

Pause while Pioneer digs up the pictures of Robert Redford and Andy Samberg I originally posted because they are 2 celebrities whom I share an Augusut 18th birthdate with. Admittedly, I couldn't resist needling pioneer with their pictures because he was going overboard putting down Serena Williams' white husband. He couldn't cite anyone better than a 70 year old, over-the-hill Denzel Washington in response but I helped him out by calling attention to black hunks Michael B. Jordan and Tyrese Gibson and Morris Chesnut. ...back to our regularly scheduled programming. 😜

@Pioneer1The only person your accusations have become increasingly clear to, is you and your skewed point of view. You are lying when you say I praise and elevate white men and down grade black men. Distortion has always been your weapon of choice; false narratives are your MO. I don't put black men down. Nor do I elevate white men. Show me where I've done so. I give credit where credit is due and this is something you have a problem with because your are consumed with jealousy, envy and insecurity. You are the only regular black male contributor on this forum who I would say that about because the rest of the guys here are able to keep things in perspective and are confident enough to not feel threatened by competition. Incidentally, I was happily married to a black man for 50 years.

@Pioneer1In response to your question as to whether I include black gang members in the "power-as-an-aphrodisiac" dynamic, the answer is yes. But your misinterpretations of what I say, and the accusations that they lead you to make, do not command my further response. I don't feel I have to continue defending myself from your version of the narrative you're attempting to control. Believe whatever you want to believe when it comes to black males vs white ones. It really makes me no difference.

l've never been guilty of assuming all Italian men are stallions, or all white women are the exemplificaton of blond beauty except in your usual STRAWMAN response replete with your favorite "it seems" preface wherein the only person "it seems" that way to, is you. The reference to my 50-year class reunion was to imply that the Italian mobsters were able to acquire eye candy because their "power" was an aphrodisiac. The stallion and blond beauty stereotypes are your spin. My position has always been that great beauty and extraordinary masculinity are universal traits and are assets that grace individuals in every species of the human race.( So when you insist on characterizing ALL black males as the only supermen, then I am dubious. OTOH, nobody negatively portrays black people any more than you do as evidenced by your little scenarios about them which ProfD had to dispute because what you described didn't apply to the FBAs he associates with.

@Pioneer1 So, when it comes to appearance, "beautiful" and "stallion" are forbidden words unless you're speaking of "Afro-Americans", huh? I don't believe you realize how ridiculous you sound, or how much you come across as being afflicted with a one-track mind, hampered by tunnel vision and gripped by an over active imagination that casts yourself as the "HNIC" chosen to tell his people "what they see when they look". Puleeze. You are who deals in stereotypes because you imply that Blacks are too dumb to process the idea that beauty comes in many varieties that can, and do co-exist!

@TroyGee, are you sure this 7 year old post is not from a parallel universe??? I don't remember participating in this dialogue! Guess I really am in the early stages of dementia. Everything I just recently posted about MLK was repetitive. I had said it all before. Humm. It was, however, an interesting, if unresolved, discussion. I'm surprised nobody mentioned anything about Bayard Rustin, an acknowledged homosexual, the brilliant architect of the 1963 March on Washington project and a member of MLK's inner circle... Upon re-thinking a lot of my past- held beliefs, I'm not so sure a person couldn't experiment with homosexuality out of curiosity, and then just move on after concluding that it was not their cup of tea.

Yes, this era does come close to 1960s America, but - I guess it does not exceed what went on during the civil rights movement and anti-war protests. Yet, - somehow, things didn't seem so dystopic then; - like the future of America, as we know it, was at stake. Back then, there was more a feeling of hope rather than despair. Hard to explain. And as bad as he was, Nixon was nowhere near as narcisstic and ignorant as Trump. He was a text book Conservative, and an adherent to the Constitution, not a Retrumpican renegade. To me, today's spectre of fascism and returning to the past is more scary than yesterday's struggle to achieve democracy for all.

With the murder of Alex Pretti, an ICU nurse at a VA hospital in Minnesota, who ICE agents riddled with bullets when he went to the aid of a female protestor they were wrestling to the ground, the tense situation in this country has really escalated. Social media is blowin up as Retrumpicans and Dems go at it, with MAGAs labeling Pretti as a gun-carrying domestic terrorist, and Dems describing him as a Good Samaritan who was brandishing a phone not the gun he was licensed to carry and had on him. ICE supporters argue that all of this could've been avoided had Alex Pretti not interfered with federal troops doing their duty while Pretti is being turned into an angel of mercy and martyr by the Left, much to the chagrin of Right wingers who defend the reckless overkill by who the Left refer to as masked, poorly-trained bullies! The camera accounts taken by those on the sideline do seem to contradict the Trump Administration's accounts of Pretti being a threat, and It's Charlie Kirk all over again as the lines are being drawn and the nation becomes more polarized than ever, with Blacks continuing to distance themselves from the conflict, preferring to remind that what happened to Alex Pretti has always gone on in their neighborhoods. As much as I hate MAGAS and ICE, and agree that the camera proves that Homeland Security head, Kristi Noem, is lying, I wish the Liberals would stop the over-the- top aggrandizing of Alex Pretti because it's so obviously hyperbole. Now it has been revealed that Pretti was previously arrested for intervening in another protest and that he was under investigation by ICE officials who were out to get him. smh. One thing for sure is that ICE is bad news and its members who are rumored to be heavily drawn from right wing militias like the Proud Boys, are trigger happy unprofessional storm troopers who need to be dismantled and sent back down their rabbit holes! They have caused nothing but trouble and are a menace to American society.

@Pioneer1French men get a lot of props, too. It's all about bragging rights, with every group claiming the crown for their team. Nobody takes it to the extent that you do, however, by going so far as to declaring that it's biological. And, btw, Strawman, I never "disavowed stereotypes". My complaint about you is your all-encompassing claim when it comes to assigning superior traits to all black men. And, as in any ethnicity, not all the Italian guys who I went to high school with were "stallions". Many were just average. The town next to where I grew up was heavily populated with Italian immigrants and their second generation children, some of whom ended up becoming members of the Chicago mob. At my 50-year class reunion there was a table of them. Tough lookin' dudes, exuding power with their beautiful blond wives.Whatever. In any case, you seem obsessed, and are apparently on a mission to elevate black manhood in the same manner Hitler did with the Aryans and his Master Race theories. That's the problem I have with your stance. You'd save yourself a lot of frustration if you'd just deal with the reality of the human race being made up of breeds who are more alike than different, and that they all have their super studs. Don't you ever get tired of beating the drum for a cause that doesn't live up to your hype? Find a new pastime. Bowling is a lot of fun. Even if "Afro-Americans" aren't the only ones good at it.

And, of course, in the "Game of Thrones" TV series, the "Red Woman" brings Jon Snow back to life by speaking a spell!! 😮 I do believe you can weaponize words. Up until this past year I spent a lot of time on FB arguing with right wing conservatives and on those threads, out of all the anti-Trump posters, I would always be the one these MAGAs responded to because I infused my words with so much venom, this stung them. 😠 Speaking of stung, with the advent of freezing winter weather, village workers came and removed the dormant wasp nest from the now bare tree in front of my house. 😬

@Pioneer1My environment has always been integrated. I attended school and college with, worked beside, lived next door to white people. And, of course, I've always been around black men. And I never found the men in one group any more completely appealing than the other. There were ones I found attractive in each group and ones I found unattractive in each group;all seemed equally horny. (I don't know about penis size.) "Italian stallions" were "something else". Cool, aloof Nordic types very intriguing. Black dudes? Comfortable to be around. What made a difference, of course, was that I didn't socialize with white people. All my interactions were with my own kind. And there were plenty of rejects among them. As for my husband, he chose me. And because he we were very compatible, we ended up married. Oddly enough, it was only after we wed, when other women would tell me I had a handsome husband, did I look closer at him and think, humm he is kinda fine. This probably had to do with him aging well, because we were 23 when we tied the knot. Among my black female friends, we never went around raving about black guys being top of the line.We just stuck with who we were around. Interracial coupling wasn't pursued. It amazes me how you tout black men as being so superior over other men, so much more appealing to women, white ones in particular, based solely on what? You seem convinced that all white woman are turned on by all black men. How do you know this? You never consider how traits other than physical ones can be aphrodisiacal to all women I simply think that fine, sexy, personable, brilliant individuals are found in all ethnicities. A few years after my husband passed, out of curiosity and encouraged by my kids, I tried dating this one black man - who never picked me up and took me grocery shopping! No chemistry. End of story.

Source: Studies? Research paper? Peer review? @TroyI know you don't like to use it, but if you Google East Side, West Side, some pics with Cicely in it come up.

In your dreams. There's no realistic reason to believe a black guy would have an advantage over other contestants in a contest to determine the the handsomest specimen with the best physique. Good looks and great bodies are individual characteristics found in every ethnicity. The panel of judges are who would pick the winner and "potential sex mate" isn't likely to be on the list of boxes to be ticked.

All the above input proves is that "black" means different things to different people. Not surprising because as I have previously noted, there is no collective consciousness among American negroid people of color. I'm not trying to recruit others to my point of view and don't feel the need to further defend it. I do find the possibility of people trying to "masquerade" as black, a ludicrous fear. As much as y'all bitch and moan about all the ongoing injustices of racism, why would anybody want to be black? Why would a white person want to be black? Why would a fair skinned person of color claim to be a "second class" citizen and all the baggage that comes with that if they were not intrinsically black?? The issue of what is and who are black is a slippery slope and I maintain that no one person is empowered enough to pass final judgment. I've always felt that the diaspora of hybrid slave descendants over the hundreds of years have created their own unique culture and identity and deserved their own niche in the American annals. African immigrants and their American-born offspring are a different breed and can blaze their own trails. At this point, I don't give a damn. We are what we are, and lotsa luck in making that work for you. Ho-Hum. I remain me.

It should be noted that there are male equivalents to beauty contests. "Mr. Universe" for one. This is where Arnold Schwartzenegger got his start.

Nobody I know uses the term "Afro-American". As far as I'm concerned, it is an obsolete label like - "jive-assed nigga". Over the past 50+years, "Black" is the most common word used when referring to America's slave descendants. Previously, Whites soliciously refrained from publicly calling us what was considered a derogatory term until we started calling ourselves that via the "Black is Beautiful" slogan embraced by the Black Panthers who took their cue from Malcom X. This all took place back in the late 1960s, and from that time forward we, as a people, proudly became "Black" with a capital "B"; going from an adjective to a noun. The idea of blackness being "a state of mind" also came about during this era, presumably to promote inclusiveness, especially since such dynamic activists as Huey Newton, Angela Davis, and Malcom, himself, were light-skinned. In the present, calling negroid Immigrants "African" suffices, because that is what they are, and nobody is confused as to what segment of the American population is being referred to when using that description. This applies to West Indians as well.

Humm. Sounds intriguing. If I were young and energetic and adventurous I would check out this book. But, I'm losing interest in life. 😣

Cicely Tyson played a Social worker Assisstant in the 1963 CBS TV series, East Side, West Side, a show about taking up the cause of the underprivileged.

@Pioneer1Whatever. In my tribal designations, Black American and African American are interchangeable and are terms that refer to this countries slave descendants. "Afro -American" is simply a generic slang. Immigrant Africans and their American-born offspring are simply identified by their countries such as Nigerians and Kenyans . Actually, their surnames alone brand them. They are pure Africans who come to America and take advantage of the rights and benefits that the ancestors of the hybrid slave descents known as Black/African Americans fought and died for and, in my opinion, are like carpetbaggers. Bottom line, there is no official termnology, and no consensus when it comes to categorizing America's negroid population. To white racists, of course, a nigger is a nigger. The "Miss-fill-in-the-bank" pageants are just a lot of overrated superficial frivolity that set their own standards and rules. So be it. As far the entertainment industry goes, like in every other sector, it appears that people of color in this country will just have to settle for whatever their minority status warrants. The Oscars have just patted them on the head by recognizing the black-produced movie "Sinners" with 16 nominations. Eat your crumbs and move on. 😴

Yes, eventually losing the game after that spectacular play was particularly bittersweet because the reason for the subsequent interception was a miscommunication between QB Caleb Williams and receiver DJ Moore when we were perhaps one play from winning the game at the last moment like we did 4 other times this season. So it's going to be a loooong winter for Bear fans, the feeling being we'll never have another miracle season like this one again... Sports enthusiasts are a crazy bunch, and millions of BEAR fans in Chicaoland are still bummed out over that loss, me included. 🫩 With shape the country is in thanks to that A-hole Trump, it was such an exhilarating experience to live in the moment and watch wildest wishes come true in the company of family and friends all jumping around, sharing your joy, cheering the team on. Now it's back to the real world, knowing I may never watch another Bear game or experience the thrill of victory again! C'est la vie. Hibernation calls me...😴

I agree. The latter are a showcase for pedophiles In regard to the initial question posed by this thread, I never got around to anwering that yes, I do remember the Miss Black America and Miss Black USA pageants that originated back in the 1960s. Contests to crown Miss "Whatever" were common back then, especially on a local level, and I didn't I pay much attention to the details of a national beauty contest. The black versions to determine an American female paragon just struck me as eager attempts to imitate white folks... What I more importantly recall during that era, was how dark-skinned actress Cicely Tyson always got her props when it came to recognizing something other than white beauty, and in1963 she was the first black actress appearing regularly on a network TV series, to wear her hair natural. That CBS program was entitled "East Side, West Side". Over the years, the question I and others posed, just for the sake of needling those people who always want to "read light-skinned blacks out of the race", was: why having other negroid characteristics such as nappy hair and full lips and noses that weren't keen didn't matter as much as having a lot of melanin, especially since the aforementioned characteristics are common among African Americans of all skin tones. The responses to this question tended to suggest that dark skin was more distinguished. And so it goes... As for science usurping consensus, the science most appropriately involved in blackness, is Anthropology because the blackness of America's slave descendants is social as much as science. It is a culture, and state of mind as much as a skin color; it is about essence as much as about geography, it is about soul as much as about body. Of course "high yellows"should not be given preferential treatment. But neither should their skin color automatically disqualify them for representing their people in beauty pageants, etc. There are universal standards of beauty that have nothing to do with color, and the "cuteness" trait is found among all species. Yes, these points can be challenged and disputed, and this is where consensus comes into play. If the majority of people who make up this negroid segment of the American population don't agree on what constitutes their blackness, then science becomes irrelevant, especially if it is based on interpretation. imo 🫨 And, yes, I may have figuratively and petulantly "divorced" America's black sub-division but I'm still "married" to my tribe.

So many. The 1985 super bowl shuffle video, of course. And this season, all of the last minute come-from-behind victories orchestrated by the "ice man" QB Caleb Williams. Those thrilling moments were like something out of a movie. Unreal! We were on our way to another one of these miracles this past Sunday - but no such luck...

@richardmurrayI am not so inclined to dismiss popular usage. Language is fluid. Nothing illustrates this more than black slang and Ebonics. If you had your way, what word would you replace "perfect" with? Or are you of the opinion that any such state as perfection exists? Your sentiments in regard to Webster would explain your tendency to make up words.