Cynique

@DelThanks for your heartfelt reply. @zajiThe Pilt Down man fraud was publicly exposed years ago. Margaret Meade and a host of other white anthropologists have also had their studies discredited. And does anybody really not know about America's revisionist history? Or realize that down through the ages, victors are who get to write history. i notice you omitted the the biggest con job of all and that is Christianity. i agree that we should question everything. That's what Buddha advised. We are all free to do this at the risk of laying the groundwork for anarchy. When you doubt everything except what you want to believe, you're in limbo. @Pioneer1Still can't get past the "boy toy' thing, can you? Kinda takes the wind out of your sails when it comes to your ego-driven fantasy that of all the male posters on the board, you exude something that attracts me, Yeah, like a fly is attracted to dung. Get real. It's very easy for anybody who thinks outside of the box to disagree with a mundane thinker like you. A young version of my boy toy. Eat your heart out, loser, who pouted because i preferred the words and wisdom of white philosophers and poets instead of your trite utterances.

@DelI can't believe anybody would consider Pioneer a role model when it comes to being open-minded. Does this mean you are now more receptive to Troy's POV on climate change? Or does Pioneer's lack of open-mindness inspire you to not be that way? Or is it because his opinionated pontificating exposes you to points of view you have no problem swallowing? Or is it because you empathize with him for not conceding to Troy? Since you have confessed that you are trying to "improve" yourself, is this because you have decided to be a more tolerant person - or because you didn't realize that you weren't a tolerant person? Huh? Huh? Huh? Huh? Huh? Just curious about your mid-life transformation/epiphany. Me, i'm too old to change. Which is why i can't resist taking pot shots at Pioneer. i guess i should congratulate him on acquiring 2 new choir members for his preaching. Meanwhile, i await his next post, ever ready to disagree, - if he shows up.

Did i mention you by name? And i think you're putting your own spin on my words by saying i said you were "defending" preachers. And where in the sentence did i say you thought the picture was unflattering? i'm puzzled as to what all of this is supposed to prove because, as usual, things are not put in context, Just quotes and responses thrown out there about something posted 8 months ago.

We 3 women here all seem to be on the same page. My inner-narrative is constantly prompting me to exercise my 3rd eye, and to make sure i'm seeing what i'm seeing, and hearing what i'm hearing. The ego can be a capricious filter. Zen is the key to my inner sanctum. Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

It's all about objectivity and subjectivity. Influenced by their egos, subjective people latch onto to what resonates with them through personal experiences, becoming so enamoured of anecdotal evidence that they reject any other view, subsequently descending into a cognitive dissonance mind set. Objective people tend to be curious and flexible and consider all views, gravitating toward those which extensive studies and experiments have proven to be reliable and authentic. Most people are a combination of the 2. Nobody is perfect or infallible. I try to keep an open mind and appreciate individuals who do the same. Race is such a multi-faceted issue made even more volatile by the resentment and even paranoia of laymen attacking the messenger while denying the message that scientists are conveying and verifying.

@zajiMy only objection is your use of the pronoun "we". i've dropped out of the struggle except to take on the role of devil's advocate in order to nudge dreamers into reality and i have no intentions of becoming an activist; too old and tired. I think what's becoming apparent when it comes to me and the rest of you, is that there's a serious generation gap. Because so much of what is new to y'all, is old to me. "Post racial" America serves as the backdrop for this scenario. All of the aspirations and awareness voiced back in the '50s and '60s, are the same ol re-heated ones that Gen-Xers and Millennials are now blowin' smoke about because the progress of the civil rights era has regressed and blacks find themselves back at square one. This sounds like what could be a teachable moment. But all i can do is give you all an "E" for effort and hope that the ballot box continues to be a weapon. What looms in my mind is that whites consider themselves superior for a reason. Whatever else figures in the picture, they are superior at seizing and maintaining control of the country they stole from Native Americans,- a land where blacks are tenants rather than owners. So Blacks, Afro-Americans, African Americans, People of Color or whatever the flavor of the day is, are left standing around, marching in place, articulating solutions and issuing warnings, pursuing the elusive goal of unity, a goal that never takes root because slave descendants are a hybrid crop prone to doing their own thing. A while back i mused about the aftermath of the inevitable fall of The American Empire. After this nation implodes, what could rise from the ashes would be the opportunity for like-minded survivors to converge into groups which could found their own little countries on the singed territory once known as the United States. One of these sects could be black people. This could be when, amidst a stirring chorus of "Kumbyaaaa", they can shut up talking about what black folks need to do, and get on with it. A scenario that sure ain't gonna happen in today's "amerika", the home of treacherous, powerful white people and verbose, impotent black ones. Time to remind that the screen name "Cynique" is derived from the word "cynical".

Well since whites benefit from both the one race theory and the artificial construct, sounds like a no-win Catch-22 situation to me. Since this is all about theory as opposed to practice, I think there are other more pressing issues for blacks to worry about. And you knew i'd say that , didn't you? LOL

Well , i always ask what do white people have to gain by abandoning the idea of different races? It is to their advantage to keep their artificial construct since, as everybody agrees, this allows them maintain white supremacy. But in a emotional state, you can have it both ways, i guess. And it's not like scientists of color don't subscribe to the one race theory. One thing for sure, the controversy will continue.

Troy has repeatedly said that zaji and Pioneer are about spirit rather than science. Science has no emotion or passion. My philosophy is that there's the world as it is verbally defined and then there is the world as it exists. Truth is in the eye of the beholder.

I don't think you folks know that Pioneer came and went on this board. He showed up one day and stayed around for a while, and then left. Later after a long hiatus, he suddenly reappeared. Even during his first "term", he and i constantly argued. When he came back, there was truce but we gradually began to clash again. If what he provokes in me can be described as an emotion (?), irritation would be what comes to mind because so much of what he says strikes me as absurd, or inaccurate, or dogmatic. And this is compounded by how he thinks he's never wrong! At some point, this has become a knee-jerk reaction because as soon as he posts something, i know i'm going to disagree with it, - and I usually do. And, of course, all of this is exacerbated by my argumentive personality. I've come to the conclusion that he and i are like oil and water; we just don't mix. As Mel previously noted, some people have a natural aversion to each other. Maybe he and i had a contentious relationship in another life. Who knows? Who cares?

It's possible to avoid consequences and restrictions in doing what ever you want to do. Just depends on the circumstances.

@DelWHO are you talking about? Me? Or Troy?

I applaud the good intentions of those seeking to rescue "Afro-Americans" from the villainy of this country, but here is another view based on what i have observed over the last 25 years in my encounters with a broad cross section of black people from all walks of life, none of whom trust white people, or who give the media a lot of credibility but who do know that black people have a rich history and who do realize that education is important. Few of these everyday people were as brainwashed and as unaware as some of you would have us believe. The average Afro-American is hip to the plight of black people in this country, and knows who and what is at the root of this and how important education and black identity are. With the advent and subsequent popularity of social media, a composite of the black consciousness has emerged and it reflects this awareness. FaceBook, however, also provides a platform for the worst element of young black people, exposing them to be members of a wanton sub-culture caught up in vicious pettiness, sexual obscenity and senseless violence. Instead of preaching the same message that originated with civil rights activists and black militants over 60 years ago, another strategy needs to include an emphasis on personal responsibility, one that discourages babies havin babies, and settling disputes with guns, and encourages overcoming a mindset enslaved by what you want instead of what you need. Setting up a lofty agenda that is hard to implement is akin to wishful thinking. Some good ol common sense is what's called for. Racism aside, bad parenting skills and a false set of values are at the root of many black problems. Parents are who should be the role models of children, and when you're a single mother on welfare whose priority is to buy your baby a pair of high-priced Michael Jordan baby shoes, the end results are predictable. When your idea of a parent teacher's conference is to go up to school and beat up or threaten Pookie's teacher for some imagined slight, then the end result is predictable. When you reward your pregnant 17 year old daughter for undergoing what has become a rite of passage which involves having that first baby, and throw her a big shower that is the equivalent of a debutante's coming out ball, then the end result is predictable. When your unemployed boyfriend on parole is also the baby sitter for your not yet toilet-trained toddler, the end result will be predictable. You can out America as the racist shit-hole oligarchy that it is, glorify African kings of the past and praise obscure Afro-American inventors all you want, - but until certain blacks are brainwashed into cleaning up their acts, the end results will be predictable.

Freedom to me means that people can do whatever they want, but they have to suffer the consequences.

So I didn't reverse myself and agree with you.

Well, Pioneer you keep insisting that i turned around and agreed with you during the knowledge and information debate. what i said is that information supplies an awareness of something, and knowledge is equivalent to being aware of something but I also said from the get-go that knowledge is not necessarily synonymous with comprehension. Do you agree with that?

OK. "Life is a mystery."

I guess sociologist Dr. Carter G. Woodson was ahead of his time when his book, "The Mis-Education of the Negro", was published in 1933, - the year i was born. But carry on. Blacks have to get keep on doing it till they get it right. "Hope springs eternal in the human breast!"

i wasn't confused about the meaning of ability. That's why i questioned how you used it, and my questions apparently inspired you to revise your original statement and then "mansplain" to me what i already knew. LOL This is developing into another "information" and "knowledge" marathon stand-off. What i've learned from that discussion is that some words are like Rorschach ink blot tests. People see things differently because their minds process ideas and images differently. And one man's logic can be another one's nonsense. What i love about language is its fluidity. But the downside is how words can get in the way. The influence of ZEN has really made me appreciate the intrigue of drawing conclusions from what is unspoken, by reading between the lines. How silence can be very loud is also a powerful lesson. Anyway, i'm free to sign off on this discussion because i have the ability to understand that it's not going anywhere but off on tangents. So, i'm done.

How do they define obfuscate?

I like this quote: "Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans." And this one, too: "Life is a journey that is homeward bound." But this is my favorite: The 3 stages of Life: 1. Birth. 2. What the fuck is this? 3. Death. Finally, what intrigues me most when i contemplate life is this quote by Edgar Allen Poe; "All that we see or seem is just a dream within a dream" Life is a mystery. i wouldn't presume to understand it. It's all i can do to live it.

I would be remiss if i didn't take on the role of a polemicist. Everybody makes good points. Everybody also refers to the how and what white people do and will do, which is what they have done and continue to do. So what is the "black" minority going to do about this - other than talk and reinforce each others ideas and assume that the "average" black person needs only to be informed about this manipulation, as if the effect of this will so intimidate "white" people that all of the blatant and subtle privileges that represent the pillars of institutionalized racism will magically disappear. Puleeze. "Know thy enemy." I think all of this rhetoric could be encapsulated in 2 words "stay woke". Woke to what? That there is only one race but "white" people have fractured this truth into the falseness of many races in order to promote the white superiority that has enabled them to do this. So black strategy should be - what? To accept what whites have deemed us to be because this will give us an opportunity to deceive them the way they have been deceiving us? And the impact of this appeasement on whites will be - what? Talk is cheap and white folks have all the wealth. Debating the concept of race is an exercise in ambiguity. Black folks are actually who they choose to be, and are just as distracted by materialism as they are damaged by racism. I anticipate the response to my "negativity" will be that the goal is not to make an impact on whites, but on blacks. I think we need to get our priorities in order. Black folks should do some manipulating in order to stop the self destructive behavior and the baby daddy/baby mama life style that has destroyed the black family and filled prisons with black males who have grown up fatherless. Living in a suburb of "Chiraq" is what inspires this perspective. Just the thoughts of a "been there, done that" senior citizen.

Different definitions of words always seem to interfere with resolving our disagreements. Suddenly the word "ability' became the focus instead of the word "freedom". And why would you want to "obfuscate" rather than illustrate when trying to clarify something?? I don't know that you manipulated me unless your aim was to make me think that the phrase "freedom is the ability to choose your entertainment" really means something, when it actually doesn't. obfuscate: to render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible:

So you changed your mind. I say that, among other things, freedom is an abstract concept and can be a state of mind and that it is beside the point when it comes to choosing your entertainment.