Pioneer1

I've been saying similar things on here for months and probably over a year now.

I've BEEN saying that there's a difference between KNOWLEDGE and mere "information" or data that you get from 2nd, 3rd, and even 15th hand sources.

I also said knowledge is what YOU experience or observe, verified by YOU.


But see, when a BLACK MAN says it....some of you don't want to take it seriously.

 "Ah....some half drunk nicca on the internet running his mouth. He NEEDS to take his ass to school and get some education before displaying his ignorance all over the place."
 

But when Caucasian....or Caucasian trained...people come along and say the same thing,  it's "amazing" and considered worthy of consideration, lol.

All of a suddent it becomes a centerpiece for philosophical discussion.

It's just like the "voodoo" thing.
As long as it was just Black people doing it, many Black folks called it crazy and satanic.
But as soon as White folks took notice, started studying it, and got into it then all of a sudden you have a crowd of negroes tying to "reclaim their spirituality"....lol.

But anyway......

I think that "science" can prove SOME things but most things they espouse are NOT proven.
I've heard that they really haven't even seen an atom yet.
Much of Caucasian so-called "science" is based on lies and myths.
And they KNOW it because they KNOW eachother, which is why the main people you here questioning official "science" is other Caucasians, but not so much people of color who are educated by them.
When was the last time you heard an educated AfroAmerican question anything scientific?
Often times it takes another Caucasian to challenge the establishment because many negroes are too scared to.


A good example.....
For weeks now I've heard in mainstream publications that Russia is planning on sending a probe up to the moon to see if the United States actually landed there.

http://fortune.com/2018/11/24/russia-us-moon-landing-conspiracy/

I thought the idea that the United States didn't really land on the moon was mere "conspiratorial talk" until I found out that the Russians themselves are questioning it!

I want you all to take a look at the BODY LANGUAGE of these young men for the first couple minutes of this interview and then tell me what they remind you of or how it makes you feel.......

 

OK.....
After reading it a few times, the last few lines make sense to me now, lol.

More than just the physical aspect of sex, one of the biggest focuses I think we need to pay attention to as AfroAmericans are the moral and ethical aspects.

Some of the biggest problems faced in the AfroAmerican community revolve around reckless and improper sexual activity.

Male/female relationships.
Child abuse
Homosexuality and it's acceptance in the Black community
Sexually transmitted diseases
Unwed pregnacies and the single parent families that are produced by them.

I believe many of these social pathologies are as a direct result of AfroAmericans as a group TRYING to copy Caucasians and adopt Caucasians morality, ethics, and social/sexual habits instead of developing those of our own.
 

3 hours ago, Delano said:

I gave this some thought and have decided to ne neutral 

What were you BEFORE you decided to be neutral?

 

3 hours ago, Delano said:

 

I said both you and Pioneer are right. What else would you like me to say. 

I would LIKE for you to apologize for attempting to smear the reputation of a good man who put his life on the line and died for the rights of you and other AfroAmericans, but that would be TOO MUCH like the right thing to do.....lol.

So I won't ask for it.
 

4 hours ago, Delano said:

Incell agrees with your point @Pioneer1

 

Before Alek Minassian killed 10 people, the majority of them women, by driving his van into pedestrians on a Toronto street Monday, he posted on Facebook praising mass murderer Elliot Rodger and called for an "Incel Rebellion," an uprising of men who are angry women won't have sex with them

???

What does this bit of "seemingly unrelated" information have to do with the two questions I just posed that you clearly have NOT answered yet?


BTW, Elliot hated Black men and even admitted that he was jealous of them because they were having more sex and attracting more women than he was.
He felt because he was half White and half Asian that he was "superior", but the women showed him the truth and he couldn't handle it and started killing them over it.

I've been on your case because you've been acting a straight fool lately, lol.

First you go after me, Troy, and Nubian Fellow because of the position we took.....or actually the position we REFUSED to take....on condemning the alleged behavior of Elijah Muhammad in another thread.

Then you accuse....while boldly refusing to produce a shred of evidence to support it what so ever....Martin Luther King and Malik Shabazz (Malcolm X) have having extramarital AND homosexual affairs!

It was surprised because I found it suprisingly unreasonable and unlike you.
But hey, it is what it is.
 

Del

Which is it, avoidance or confrontation. Can you tell me how to decide.

You should take a "line item veto" approach.....lol.

In some cases you should confont a person and engage them in argument if you think it will be productive, and in other cases when you feel no progress will be made you should avoid them.

Del

It's like when I supported you Cynique and Troy gave me stick. So i will support Troy and Cynique, and we'll see what happens.

Instead of having a "supporting season" when you support CERTAIN people at CERTAIN times.....why not just support the TRUTH regardless of who's mouth it comes out of?

I'm not asking you to take the side of the men simply because you're a man.
Just treat everyone EQUALLY and support or criticize everyone on a fair basis instead of deciding to stick up for Pioneer for a month or two then change your mind and decide to go against me the next few months to see how that turns out.....lol.
 

What do you think I should think?

I think you should think CLEARLY.
Be consistent to avoid confusion and mistrust by others

Thanks Pioneer. I thought i was deciding based o the merits of the argument not the genitalia of the person.

Not when you condemn the men on the forum because they WON'T condemn other men who engage in sexual activities that you disapprove of or think is predatory.
You specifically called out the men on this forum because they didn't agree with you and the women over the alleged behavior of Elijah Muhammad.

4 hours ago, Delano said:

Yes you are both right, I don't know why I ever think of disagreeibg with either of you. I have learned about all of us thank you. 

 

Not sure how much you've learned about those of us on this site, but unless you've learned "all about".....or atleast ENOUGH about....Martin Luther King,  you shouldn't be spreading false rumors about him or his sexuality.

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 11:16 PM, Delano said:

I asked you ti show me one legal case, or even a search on is a question grounds for libel or slander. And here the discussion concludes for me. 

Will you end the discussion unable (or unwilling) to admit that you have absolutely NO evidence to support your claims that The Reverend Doctor was an adulterous homosexual?

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 10:52 AM, Chevdove said:

 

@Pioneer1 It's nothing deep. I just saw a lot of ongoing jabbing going on in the community and thought it would be a good idea to start this thread.

But I really found what you said here very interesting.  

 

I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this at work.

 

Yes, I think people give our signals all the time directed at someone.

 

 

 

IMO, there are too many different personalities on the internet today, and it is no telling what kind of atmosphere a community might develop, but I just try to 'monitor' myself and stay on the same purpose for why I come to sites like this one. in the first place.  Self Control is good for me, but I also believe that the atmosphere can change, no matter who the manager is, male or female, and this can cause a negative atmosphere where people have veered off the topic.  I try not to feed into this negative energy by 'remembering' that I came to the community for other things--Not to insult, belittle or attack someone deliberately. I don't believe anyone presently visiting this community actually came here to insult anyone, but it happened and I think it would be good if we try to have some respect because, it helps. Because there will be controversial topics that will always come up in a discussion forum, offenses are bound to happen, but it is good to stay on topic because, I know I can grow from these experiences. 

Girl you KNOW how Black folks tend to argue and fight among eachother....lol.
You should be used to that by now.
 

Infact, Neely Fuller Jr. says that because Black folks tend to argue and fight with eachother so much, the best thing to do is to STAY AWAY from eachother until we have a definite constructive project that we can work with eachother on.


I used to shake my head at it, and still do at times.
But I also look at the arguing and fighting as a sign of our strength both mental and physical.
Kind of like The Dozens that boys used to play (and still do in many communities) with eachother at school or on the street. Where you insult the other to test them and see how much they can take before breaking down crying, running away, or try to fight in anger of losing a verbal match.

The key is to remember this is online and not to be too sensitive.
Unless someone is making threats against you or talking about your direct family, you let it roll off and keep pushing.

I would prefer Black unity, but sometimes we have to work out the "kinks" among ourselves before that unity can take place.

I would rather we argue with eachother than ignore eachother and retreat to our own little circles of unanimous agreement where it becomes nothing but an opera house full of multiple echo-chambers.

Troy

You asked Del:

"you've been throwing around quotes with reckless abandon. What you YOU believe. Do you also believe the virgin mary gave birth to Jesus the Christ?

Instead of answering, he told Chevdove:

Just being supportive of Chevdove. My beliefs have no bearing in regards to the two quotes.

Lol.......
That pretty much answers your question and sums up his role these past few weeks.

Not having any clear definite opinions of his own on anything.
Just unconditionally throwing his support behind the women regardless of the positions they take.....even if they take positions that are against him.

Troy and Chev (but obviously anyone can respond)

You both say that 18 is too young for sexual activity but growing up many of the males and females I knew were having sex on a regular basis...some even produced children at 18 and 19,  and many of them that I still know of today for the most part have turned out to be just as fine as those who were reportedly virgins and didn't engage in sexual activity.
Outside of the troubles that came with actually having children they weren't ready to support, the sexual activity itself didn't seem to make much of a difference in their success or failures of life.


Two questions I have is:

1. Is it that 18 and 19 are  too young for sexual activity OR is it that THIS SOCIETY ISN'T PROPERLY PREPARING 18 and 19 year olds mentally and socially for what nature has designed them to do at that age?

Troy you mentioned that sex at 18 has less to do with love or commitment and more to do with recreation....and I agree, but I don't see that as necessarily a BAD thing.

If young people were PROPERLY educated on pregnancy and STDs instead of having the reality hidden from them to the point that they can only learn through "trial and error".....perhaps recreational sex would be seen as just another part of celebrating their newness at adulthood like responsible drinking or getting the right to vote.
 

2. More importantly in my opinion, WHERE are we as AfroAmericans getting our values and opinions about the appropriateness of sexual expression from?

In other words are WE deciding our morals and values for ourselves, or are we getting them from Caucasians and accepting THEIR ever changing moral standards as the epitome?

One of the problems I have with Del calling an older male who may have used his position of power to get sex from younger females a "predator" is that:
a)  it not only assumes that the females he allegedly slept with didn't want sex themselves (as if females don't want sex)
b) it assumes that they didn't have an agenda of their own by sleeping with a man of power and authority
c) it also slaps the face of centuries if not millenia of African traditions where males of authority and high achievement were REWARDED with sex from the females of their choice.

For centuries this was seen as a GOOD thing and not only was permitted but in many cases encouraged, until someone (and that someone was not God) told us it was bad.
Who decided that what our ancestors did was bad, and where did THEY (those who made that decision) get the authority to condemn others from?

Delano

I don't I was talking about you position.

No, that is YOUR position.


YOU just said:
 

Quote

 

Prison rape bad

Preacher rape okay
 

Thanks for clearing that up. After the first pregnant secretary git kicked out of the NOI, why would the others consent? Tbus is similar to workplace sexual advances by a supervisor to a person beneath them.

 

That is a DIRECT QUOTE from you.

My question is why do you feel that prison rape is bad (and I agree) but "preacher rape" is okay????

Are you Catholic and are now....after condemning the NOI....are trying to justify those pedophile priests in the Catholic church, or something?

Trying to see where you're going with this......

Hello Deborah Turner-Bey

I have a couple questions

1. Your last name is Bey, are you part of or were you born into the Moorish Science Temple?

2. And do you have atleast 3 first hand experiences of whom you call the Cosmic Mother actually protecting you from White Supremacy that you can share with us?

These aren't challenges, but sincere questions.

Delano

My saying Elijah Muhammed raped teen age girls didn't diminish your opinion of him, nor Troy.

Troy can speak for himself but no.....it didn't.
Because I don't believe it's true that he did.

But when you put a statement that derogatory and inflammatory out in public where thousands have access to it...out of that number MANY WILL believe it.
Thus, a certain amount of damage is done.

If you don't know the FACTS, it's best not to put out derogatory information.
Especially if you've repeatedly been asked to prove or atleast provide evidence for yet failed to do.

 

A question is not an accusation, nor os a questiin a statement. So unless you want to fight with gramma. Yiu dont jave a case, unlwss we were in court. Yiu may want to read or reread the four different types of sentences.

Man, ain't nobody trying to 'fight with grandma"...lol
 

You made 2 derogatory claims inside your question.
You claimed that King had affairs and you claimed that he slept with men and these claims (that you were unable to prove or even substantiate) were PART of the question.

It's like going over a man's house on Thanksgiving, sitting down to the dinner table, and casually asking him infront of his wife and family:
"So, are you still banging that b*tch over on Grand River Ave. or have you found another one????"

You've just implicated him as an adulterer and demeaned him infront of his family INSIDE the question you asked him.

 

Then why use an example as if rape and infidelity are equivalent.

?????
Who said they were?

I don't think they are, although they ARE part of the same category of IMMORALITY.
Just like assault isn't equivalent to murder but both fall under the category of CRIME.



Its using hyperbole in a way that is an attempt to undermine my position.

No, it's called being ANALYTICAL and keeping things within proper perspective to keep you from clouding up the argument which is what you're TRYING to do.

Thou shalt not confused MORALS, with LAWS, or LAWS with ETHICS.
They are 3 separate categories.

28 minutes ago, Delano said:

Prison rape bad

Preacher rape okay 

 

Thanks for clearing that up. After the first pregnant secretary git kicked out of the NOI, why would the others consent? Tbus is similar to workplace sexual advances by a supervisor to a person beneath them. 

?????

Why do you think a preacher raping someone is ok?

 

Delano


No but you do.

And I'm not the only one.
It's COMMONLY UNDERSTOOD that accusing a married (and in most cases a girlfriend/boyfriend) individual of having an affair is harmful to their public reputation.

Also, in many if not most circles accusing a heterosexual of homosexual behavior is also harmful to their reputation....especially in religious circles.

I have no idea what you mean.

I mean that harmful accusations consist of more than just whether or not you INTENDED to cause harm.
Even if you didn't INTEND to cause harm, the CONTENT of what you said may still be very harmful.



Rape is an act that can result in jail time. In our culture an affair doesn't have the same penalties.

True, but it can still ruin a person's reputation!

No..in the United States adultery is not ILLEGAL, but it is still considered by most IMMORAL and UNETHICAL by most.

Except for many VERY wealthy people who don't take marriage seriously anyway and routinely swap wives and engage in all manner of sexual behavior....lol.

I've read Chev's original post over and over again and still don't have a very clear understanding of her and Troy's issue, but let me say this.....

As I've said on many occasions, having frequented many websites I've noticed that many women don't like the atmosphere of a website unless it is:

a) Moderated mostly by women

or

b) Moderated by a male who is heavily infuenced by women who can pull on his arm and point to who they don't like or feel are offensive and get them punished or banned.

Infact, what I've noticed a LOT is that many websites have a "gorilla harem" type of atmosphere where there is one dominate male moderator and a bunch of females under him...sometimes they are moderators and other times they are just well respected members who are very sweet to him alone and often times will use him to strike out at anyone on the forum they don't like.

I'm not sure if it's feeling of security or what but most women like HEAVILY moderated websites.

 Troy pretty much does what an Administrator and moderator SHOULD do in my opinon which is allow people to express themelves and weed out trolls.

I briefly operated a message board years ago and I even allowed  what are now considered "trolls" to post.....lol.
The only time I banned people or took down posts was if they made threats to harm people or exposed personal information against another poster's will.  But I guess things are different today where many sites are being flagged if too much racist, sexist, or anti-homosexual content is posted.

But back to Chevdove's issue........

From my experience  dealing with people and understanding human psychology,  there may also be something else that COULD be an issue.

Troy's open idenity as Administrator

Having seen people come and go on this site and others, I've noticed that even if a moderator doesn't say it or even imply it....often times when people get into a disagreement or even personal conflict with the moderator of a site their first instinct is to get frustrated and LEAVE.
They just assume that they have no chance of "making it" on that site if the head person is against them

Even in real life I've noticed this.

On jobs I've seen people get into conflict with other employees and stay on for months or even years until they either work things out or just stay out of eachother's way and keep on pushing.  But if they get into some sort of conflict with a manager....even if the manager doesn't talk about firing them NOR even gives them a hard time....most of the time they start looking for another job and leave.
I've been a manager at some jobs and I've had a couple people  just walk out or give their 2 week notice with just the SLIGHTEST criticism!

When I ask another employee what happened they tell me they THOUGHT I was going to fire them so they just bounced.

I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this at work.

When you're a person of authority your very POSITION holds weight and can sometimes put people on alert or make the nervous that you may mete out some sort or punishment with the slightest provocation even if you intend nothing of the sort.

I've always taken the position of UNLESS a manager (or  in the case of a website- the moderator) explicitly says or implies that they will ban me or start removing my posts, if I disagree with them I will continue my disagreements but in a respectful way acknowledging their position.

Now this MAY NOT be an issue in this instance, but I figured it's a good point to bring up since the theme of this thread seems to be somewhat related and I've seen it quite a bit.

Troy

He said i you do something with another dude and one of you bust a nut (ejaculate) then you are both gay.

What if it's FORCED, as in the case of many situations in prison?

Perhaps the PITCHER may be gay and be enjoying it enough to skeet, but that doesn't necessarily mean the CATCHER is a willing accomplice!


Believe it or not.....as it may come as a surprise to you and others.....I don't have a major problem with a man putting on a dress and wig if he's just acting. 
Even if he's doing it for money.
I have a problem with him being FORCED to do it by Caucasians for a hidden agenda or some ulterior motive of promoting femininity and sexual confusion among African peoples.

 

People say that the Christmas/New Years time is one of the most depressing times of the year.
I'm not sure about that one but I've noticed for years that it is certainly the most FRUSTRATING time of the year for most people because the traveling problems, the financial problems from having to buy so many gifts and worry about the prices and debt incurred, as well as so many old wounds being resurrected when families who live miles apart get back together again.
 

As usual, the media only tells you HALF the story.....if that.


What they left out was that this Caucasian woman Kareem was accused of assaulting started calling him and some other people he was with "n*gger, n*gger, n*gger and n*gger lovers" and kept chanting it and yelling it and even followed them up to their hotel room chanting it and even assaulted one of his friends.

Finally, he....like most young men.....got tired of the crap and decided to go off on her.

https://clutchpoints.com/chiefs-news-what-woman-called-kareem-hunt-to-prompt-him-to-shove-kick-her-via-sources/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2780901-911-call-from-alleged-violent-dispute-involving-kareem-hunt-released

She PROVOKED him.

There is a such thing as "fighting words" in common American law.

You shouldn't to go around calling people derogatory names and slurs to their face and following them around and NOT expect any sort of consequence.

Troy

yes it appears there us indeed a great if pressure for acceptance of homosexuality.

Is this a bad thing? While it is not my life style, is what two consenting adults do really our business?

It depends.

To use Delano's argument in another thread, it depends on the INTENT of those pressuring for it's acceptance.

If the intent is to make the public more tolerant and accepting of those who are born a certain way and can't help themselves.....I'd say NO...it's not a bad thing.

However if the intent to promote homosexuality is to INCREASE homosexuality and homosexual activity among a targeted population for the purposes of:
1. Causing CONFUSION among that targeted group in order to cause chaos and fighting between them and
2. LIMITING and REDUCING the population of that group by encoraging more same sex sexual activity and discouraging heterosexual activity and thus decreasing the reproduction rate.

....then I'd have to say YES, it is a bad thing.

Infact, it's a form of "positive" genocide where instead of killing those who are already born you just prevent them from being born in the first place.

Chev

You make a great point that there is a difference between homosexuality and homosexual ACTIVITY.

Two men can kiss eachother on the mouth.
That may be considered homosexal ACTIVITY....however if they're both actors and getting PAID to do it then it's not homosexuality.
It's just two men acting out a role or going through the motions without any sexual feelings behind it.

Women from East Asia walk around all the time holding hands but that doesn't mean they are lesbians, it's just part of their culture.

For it to be actual homosexuality there must be the homosexual feelings or intent behind it.

Tariq Nasheed and Harlem Elder weigh in on the Kevin Hart controversy and Tariq goes into how it's part of a greater plan to cause sexual confusion among people of color: