Troy

@zaji Max is running a video at the top of the Harlem Book Fair website I created about 10 years ago, the photos are 1998 and to 2007. The photos were taken by myself and Marcia Wilson Here is a screen shot: and the full video is below with shots of E Lynn Harris, Eric Jerome Dickey, Walter Dean Myers, Clin Channer,and SIster Souljah from to years ago!

Yes, and what you describe is the crux of the problem. If I'm looking for something a factoid and the like Google serves up wikipedia making the the default source of information -- often right in the search engine results page. If is not worth my effort to dig deeper. The kind of thing one had to do when we were forced to go to the library to research a topic. At any rate, you are the choir, hopefully the message will make an impact on other readers here.

I've been watching a series on Netflix lately called dirty money. The was an episode on 45. After reading this it is astonishing the he was elected POTUS. In the era of social media all of the truth about 45's business failures was crowded out by the propaganda distributed on social media and our social media fueled journalists who amplied his bogus message desperate to make money.

@zaji, I can see from the hyperlinks that you copied the information from Wikipedia. Wikipedia is really hit or miss when it comes to accuracy. I would never use it is a source for serious research (not saying posting here is serious research). The curation is inconsistent and the information is often biased by people with an agenda. One of the problems on the internet is that Google has elevated Wikipedia in search engine results so much so that sites with more accurate information are undiscoverable so people use Wikipedia. The other problem is that Wikipedia does not pay for it's content, the quality of the information reflects this. Google (and others) have figured out a ways to monetize Wikipedia's "information." This I argue exploits the people who volunteer to contribute to Wikipedia and makes it harder for professional researchers and journalist to earn a living. This all contributes to the proliferation of fake news, I know that was a serious side bar, but I thought some of y'all might find the perspective interesting. I wrote about this 5 years ago in an article called "The Pimping of Wikipedia."

@Pioneer1, I don't have an issue with the definitions, but anyone can copy and paste something from Wikipedia, that does not mean they understand what they've copied. Now you freely admit that you have no clue how the builders of the Pyramids acquired the knowledge to construct. Given you lack of knowledge on the subject how can you be so positive how they were not constructed? (@Delano is this the reasoning that you are defending?) It is interesting that you mentioned experimenting as a possibility. You said you understood the scientific method. If you do then you'd also know that experimentation is part of that process. Now I'm not saying the process was called "science" 5 thousand years ago, but likely the practice was the same -- and certainly more plausible than anything else you come up with.

Donations to poor Black kids is all marketing. Do you really believe Disney actually cares about poor Black people -- beyond the ability to separate them from their money? As Cynique said the deduction reduces their tax liability. What we don't know is how Disney is spending the remaining 99.9% of the profits from he film. Maybe that would give you some perspective.

@Delano OK, ok stop jocking Pioneer I'll try different approach. @Pioneer1 how did the people who built the pyramids acquire the knowledge they needed to construct these architectural marvels?

@Pioneer1 "African word for Daddy" Surely you did not mean write than did you? As far as blindly following white folks, you know white folks invented Black Panther and he world of Wakanda right? @Delano, remember I said I enjoyed the film (wait, have you seen it yet). Again my point is that you and many other Black folks have canonized he film. I call it dumb to counterbalance the exaltation of the film While I think Star Wars, at least the last 4 or 5 installments were pretty bad. The Black Panther movie is superior in my book to the entire Star Wars franchise -- put together. Well maybe not the first one which was a groundbreaking film. I would not put Black Panther in the same category with the first Matrix flick, which was a simply brilliant film. If there is a college course dedicated to this one film it would be a waste of money, for there was nothing ground breaking or original in the film to study, but it would not surprise me if one is created. 45 created a "university."

I was looking for the "Western" qualifier you keep throwing around. Do any of your definitions use that word? But more importantly none of you definitions describe how science is practiced, which is what you don't seem to know. Look up the "scientific method."

Very good @Pioneer1, I should known better than to quiz people on this site about African history that said... Are you trying to say America is a secular nation -- are you kidding me?! I gave you an example of a man murdering an elder in the movie but you ignored that example which disproves your point and cherry picked on to suit your needs. I can tell you know nothing about science because as soon as your experiment fails you double down in your flawed hypothesis. Whether is is straightened blonde or twisted red (lupita's style) neither are "natural." It is just not Natural in the way you prefer it to be. Look man it is just a dumb flick enjoy it for what it is and stop trying to make it more than it is. Hollywoods has man some great black film and many shitty ones too we can define our culture on these things. Did you get the inside of your lower lip tattooed yet? You know there are negroes working o doing this right?

@Pioneer1 where, pray tell, did you get this definition: "Science is a Western method of collecting and organizing information?" We can't have a reasonable conversation on this subject if this is the basis of your understanding of science. @Delano there are some pretty remarkable structures from antiquity a in the Americas as well.

@Kalexander2, if intelligence is not inherited then surely you believe that if we all just studied we could be as smart as WEB Dubois, George Washington, Carver, Imhotep, or Einstein. If we just hit the books we could be as smart as Louis Latimer or Stephen Hawking. Do you believe this is the case? You know there are people who could pick up SPSS in no time, effortlessly? Why do you think that is the case? @Pioneer1 I'm sure if you looked at those degreed politicians incentives, you'd see that their brains and degree are being out to use. @Delano MIchael Milk'em look was probably stress.

@Cynique now there's is a thought. Maybe we came here fleeing a dying planet... the planet of... dare I say it... Wakanda!

"Success" is purely subjective, but I think the ability to live on one's is a good indicator. But again it depends upon the individual. Luck is subjective but it belongs in the equation. There are thing that happen to us like being hit by another car while sitting a stop light or catching a stray bullet watching TV in your home are things that impact our chances of success that we can't control: luck. Connections are not iffy in fact I'd argue that they are one of the most important things as far as a career is considered. Most of my opportunities have come from people I know. Genetics (do I wanna go down this road again?). There is a genetic component to intelligence. Since there is no such thing as race there can not be a genetic component as it relates to race. So all this stuff about "xenophobia, ethnocentrism, ethnic cleansing, and genocide" are arguments made by people who don;t understand genetics. There is no one gene for intelligence and of course environment plays a factor as well, in terms of how genes are expreseds and our potential. The economy is absolutely a factor. If there are no jobs opportunities are limited (why do I have to explain this?) People can do everything in their power to achieve success but at the end of the day there are many things one can not control. Of course we do our best to overcome these obstacles and do the best we can with the cards we are dealt.

Interesting @zaji I find magnets much more fascinating. You see sound I can understand intuitively. Sound travels over a media. So no sound it space, but it travels faster in water. In the cheap seat in the stadium you can observe a ball being hit before you hear it. All of this makes sense to me indeed I could reason this out on my own. But magnets never made sense until it was explained to me how they worked. Indeed electromagnetic force is far stronger than gravity and propagates infinitely. This is not something I could have intuited. @Cynique, maybe given how evil some people are.

I bet that would sound good read too.

People who say that aliens came to Earth to help build the pyramids are racists. People who will say anything to diminish the accomplishments of Black people. OK I dont completely believe that but you know what I mean. I will say that all I know about the Pyramids tells me they we have indeed forgotten something over the millennia. What was lost, forgotten, and often destroyed goes beyond just the construction of the pyramids. What we've forgotten is our understanding of nature and how we relate to it. We've forgotten how to relate to each other and our place place in the universe. It feels like we are reinventing the wheel even when it comes to spirituality. Today we can only hope to discover a fraction of what we knew thousands of years ago. SO we are susceptible to believe anything that comes along. In much the same way some in he Black community have latched on to the world of Wakanda as a source of pride...

Net-net we all agree people are better off with a college degree than without one in the current economy. However having one is no guarantee of success and not having one is no guarantee of failure. All the rest is a function of luck, preparation, connections, genetics, the economy, what you've studied, where you lives, etc, etc. Too many variables to come out with a perfect formula to predict an outcome with a high level of certainty. Again the degree maximizes your potential. No I would not have gotten the job at Goldman without the degree, but I also did not come in through the normal recruiting channels. Del I forgot all about Drexel. Were you there when they imploded?

OK @zaji we are in complete agreement and thanks for not picking about my use of the word "defy" for you understood what I was trying to communicate. As far as levitation magnets can be used to do this as well. @Delano I assume you meant some form of levitation using the mind right? If so, yes there would need to be a few new laws to support that, but I doubt any of the laws are in jeopardy as no one one has demonstrated the ability to levitate themselves.

@Kalexander2 all cynicism and jokes aside Del has a business degree from one of the top business schools on Earth. Indeed, he earned his before I did. I'd also argue that he understood the "value" of said degree before I did too.

-Respect for elders and veneration of ancestors. LIke when KIllmonger murdered the character played by Forest Whitaker?-The concept of female warriors Without looking name 3 "African" cultures that used female warriors-The belief and access to other realms where the ancestors dwell Man name one culture on earth that odes not have some variation of this concept-Black women wearing their hair NATURALLY....which is a big plus What?! nobody had a "natural" hair style in this film. Substituting a straight blond wig for a another wig one is not "natural." I don't think anyone is arguing that this movie has done "harm." My position is that the amount of good most are arguing that is has, or will do, for Black people is grossly exaggerated.

@Pioneer1 (anyone) do you think the construction of the Pyramids is an example of science applied?

Someone emailed this to me. They may lurk these forums. I have not watched the whole movie. So I can't really speak to it yet. I do not think this film could have the impact of the hollywood version because the hollywood version comes with it own marketing hype machine.

I see things a bit differently @zaji in the case of describing the elephant each person was accurately describing what they felt. They were all correct. The problem comes when any of them use their limited experience in an attempt to describe the entire elephant. Many of us do this without even realizing it. We do not realize we are blind to a larger whole. This is called ignorance. The worst of us are indeed closed to additional information we are arrogant in our ignorance. In terms of airplanes. Airplanes do not "defy" gravity. The take advantage of another scientific principal to overcome gravity. Indeed a complete understanding of gravity and how it works is necessary in order for one to understand flight. This similar to what you wrote, but the distinction I'm trying to make is that gravity is not "wrong," but a better understanding of the whole environment allows us to apparently defy it. Opinions and preferences are subjective, so we can all have different opinions and be completely right as far as the individual concerned. Facts are not subject to individual whims or preferences.

This is such a meaty topic. It is hard to properly address all the issues being raised. Look for Black people with college degrees, these degrees mean a lot means a lot less than they used to and have always meant less than they do for white people. I have typically been more educated than most of the people I've worked with (I have an MBA and a MS in engineering). I once had a white manager tell me during our first meeting that he did not care how many degrees I had -- this coming from a white guy who had less education and I'd guess who was less intelligent as well. But he was senior to me in his role and made a lot more money. He also had a direct say on the size of my bonus. When the bonus pool was being divided up who do you think got the largest shared me or his boys? This was at Goldman Sachs. This type of thing was one of the reasons I left. After a certain point, I determined I would rather struggle on my own than be owned by folks who really don't see me or respect me. But that is me and I know most people are not like me in this way. At a Goldman it is also not just enough to have a degree it also matters where the degree is from. Because of this Black people are are a significantly disadvantage because we are historically excluded from the Ivies. Again, not because of ability but because of legacy, racist admission policies, etc. Of course there are other places to work, but the firms where you earn the highest wages operate the same way. Now this also excludes other whites based upon class, which have led some whites who believe "affirmative action" has given unqualified Blacks positions that they rightly deserve. The value of an education is not a simple question. People always say. "Troy I'm sure your engineering degrees helped you create AALBC.com," No they did not. The skills I use today were not invented when I got my degrees. I learned everything I know to run this site on my own. Well surely, they say, that my MBA helps me run my business. Again, the answer is "no." An MBA is best suited to teaching one how to work for a large corporation. Sure the same ability that allowed be to earn my degrees is the same one that allowed me to create AALBC.com. But that ability is not at all unique and definitely not sufficient to run AALBC.com. @Kalexander2's point "Black are taught to never challenge authority" resonated because this was he way I was raised. I always referred to people who were older to me. In my first job I found it difficult to refer to the older white guys by the first names. My white peers did not have this problem and they also challenged the older guys ideas more freely.