Troy

Cosby being sent to prison at this stage of his life would be very tragic, but if he is guilty of what he is accused of, he should have been locked up a long time ago. The question will forever remain, why now? Why this reaction after 50 years?

@Cynique, your reply was beautifully written, poignant, and rang true on all levels. You have a gift. I wish I could relate stories as easily. That said, I really do not think I way off base when I wrote the reaction to my perception of Viola's Time cover. The way I worded my statement it may have sounded like I was describing your's, @Mel Hopkins's @Delano's, and anyone on the opposite side of the argument as exactly the same. Of course, that would not be fair and not my intent. I was summarizing very briefly, what I took away from the entire conversation. Of course, the details were more nuanced... But Xeon's statement illustrates my point: “Just because the respondents agreed with your racial paranoia doesn't vindicate you, it just makes you all ashamed of black women.” Again, while you and the others did not say this explicitly, taken as a whole, this statement, as ludicrous as it might seem to me is it not out of line with the overall sentiment of those on the opposing side of our the debate. Cynique, do you agree with Xeon's assessment of my opinion of the issue? Obviously, I reject it, but based on your intuition, the reading of what I actually wrote, and what you know of me what do you think? @Pioneer1, I was not trying to start anything other than thought and conversation. It was just that the way Christal described the situation with trying to obtain a relationship with Black men hit me in much the same way the reaction to our perception of Time Magazine's photo of Viola hit me--unexpected and intense. What does a "Good Black" man mean? Man I dunno...seemingly it means perfection; immune to the ravages of racism, strong, financially secure, tall, handsome, smart, spiritually sound, a good communicator, great protector, compassionate, great in bed, in physical shape, gets along with your family, a good cook, no kids, no crazy exs, likes everything you like, has no vices, and is in love with every aspect of your imperfections. Does that sound about right? Of course, if men are looking for the exact same thing in a woman, there would a shortage of them too... that is, "the "goods are odd." Perhaps this is where the problem resides. Many of us appear to be looking for characteristics in our partners that don't exist in any human and are characteristic we do not possess ourselves. @Delano why don't you date more Black American women? Interestingly, I was never interested in dating anything but Black American women, but that was more due to the provincial nature in my youth. @Xeon, please feel free to express yourself. In 20 years, no one has every been banned for expressing their opinion. Now if you come at Cynique sideways, we have a problem.

There are beautiful women in all complexions. Of course, this is not a universally shared opinion. Obviously, in western cultures, higher levels of beauty are often associated with people who have lighter complexions but as I've argued continuously this is a consequence of living in a white culture. @Xeon, the colorism you describe in Asian cultures may actually have more to do with class. Darker skinned people are associated with the woking class, outdoor laborers. By the way, I think Gabby actually did lose about 100 pounds:

I asked about your opinion of Farrakhan reaction to Wallace's question because I wanted to be sure I understood who I was talking to ;-) It was a reality check question of sorts. You appreciate that there are people who disagree with the Minister, most notably esteemed journalists like Mike Wallace. We can also agree, I'm sure, that the media has unfairly demonized Farrakhan which reduces his effectiveness because Black people buy into it. Can you really blame me if I'm a little biased towards a Black man? I remember that 60 minutes interview went it originally broadcast, because I was saddened that Wallace would portray the Black nation of Nigeria in such a way and there was nothing I could do about it. Farrakhan became a hero because of the way he promptly and properly put Mike Wallace in his place. If Wallace had interviewed any of our current "leaders" I doubt any would have expressed the justified anger and outrage, while intelligently dismissing Mike's nonsense. Maybe one of Obama's weaknesses is his lack of passion. People say the brother is "calm, cool, and collected," but if you don't display anger every once in a while, it can be perceived as a lack of caring. If you can't get angry about the increase violence in the Black cities and your actions don't indicate that you are doing anything about it, then it is really hard to win the hearts and minds of people... do you see what I mean? People got angry with Farrakhan for taking money from Qaddafi, I guess they want him to be beholden to Mcdonalds or Wells Fargo instead. This is one reason he is labeled an antisemite as if that is a thing, Black call each other. Given the number of Jewish people who profited from the enslavement of Black people being mistaken for an antisemite when advocating for Black people should not be much of a concern.

@Delano, oh I thought you were using Wattstax to demonstrate how Jessie Jackson could have rallied a million together the way Farrakhan did for the MMM. @Cynique, I'm glad you agreed with this clip of Farrakhan As you said you are removed from his influence. I am not. I walked by Mosque #7 (Malcolm's mosque) every day a boy. I patronized the businesses they operated and saw how they cleaned up ex-cons, people the rest of us threw away. But I'm not naive enough to think they are perfect. I remember how the Brothers would try to recruit me as a little boy when my mother was not looking. Yes I do think your impression of the man is colored by the white-dominated mainstream media.who are often overtly hostile to the NOI. Where did you learn about the statements the exit FOI members? Did you know the Final Call the NOI's newspaper was recognized by the Association of Black newspapers as the best Black newspaper in the country? I mean you site Farrakhan complicity in Malcolm X's killing, but that was over 50 years ago. The reasons for all of that I won't pretend to understand or know, but the Farrakhan has publicly apologized for that and the families have attempted to make amends as far as I recall. You also left out the involvement of the federal government's involvement. You also did not mention the many NOI member who were slaughtered by the feds and local police. We all know the NOI was virtually crushed by our own government with the aid of media propaganda to diminish and marginalize the Nation of Islam. Again the media did a great job demonizing the NOI and excusing the Feds. Sure Black on Black crime in Chicago is bad, but to use that to diminish Farrakhan's effectiveness is totally unreasonable. What the hell is Chicago PD doing? Still Chicago's crime rate is relatively low (though I understand you may not appreciate that listening to the media). Chicago's per capita rate is murder rate is much lower than Detroit, Baltimore, and St. Louis (which are some of the most dangerous cities in the world, based upon their per capita murder rates). Washington DC's murder rate is pretty crappy too, but we never hear anyone laying the blame at Obama for the murder rate of DC, Chicago, or the United States. What makes these anti-Black power campaigns so effective is that many of the victims reject the fact that they are indeed being victimized. So yes Farrakhan is elderly and his recent speeches are not nearly as powerful as they were when he was in his prime. If we let mainstream media determine who is important to our communities we will be misled to our own detriment .

I was in Atlanta over the weekend, in the running for the “Literary Activist of the Year” Award. The awards ceremony was actually part of an entire weekend of events hosted by AAMBC (African Americans on the Move Book Club). I attended one of the events, a panel discussion billed as the following: “Meet relationship experts Terry Deron, Jevon Dewand, Gregory Alan Williams, and Stephan Labossiere and others in a conversational piece moderated by Rolling Out journalist Christal Jordan.” The Brothers on the panel were all good looking, very articulate, and successful. Two were former professional athletes, one was an author and artist, and the other was an actor. They all have published books. I was impressed with what they had to say and told them so during the Q and A. But a couple of things that were said during the presentation really struck me though. One was a statement by journalist Christal Jordan, who was the panel's moderator. I was able to catch records just a portion of what she said, (on the 20-second video below. She prefaced a question to the four gentlemen on the panel with a very negative statement against Black men. If I was on the panel, I would have challenged the preface entire preface of her question. Before I could whip out my camera, Christal also cited a statistics to bolster her argument supporting the difficult of Black women to find a good Black man. She said there was an 18 to 1 ratio of Black women to men (in favor of men). She did not cite a source, but the stat was accepted as true, unquestioned, by those on the panel. During the Q&A a woman (virtually all of the attendees were women), asked one of the Brothers why he was not married since the odds were 18 to 1 in his favor. The Brother replied, without missing a beat “…the odds were good, but the goods were odd.” I was actually taken aback by that statement and began to wonder if Christal had a point, because if a so-called relationship expert would say something like that what must the average Brother think? The same Brother, who was previously married and now divorced, went on to say that he wanted to find the right women because he was not interested in getting divorced again, which is completely understandable, but was unnecessary and simply wrong to indict an entire population of Black women, based on nothing more than his own experience During the Q&A I asked all the panelists to say what their marital status was. None were married, two were divorced (one twice), and they all had children. I did not say this, but I find it just crazy that we always trot out Brothers who have not demonstrated any success at maintaining a long-term healthy relationship as "experts" (think Steve Harvey). It is no wonder so many sisters believe that Black men are out to hurt them. It also made me think of the conversation about Viola Davis' Time cover photo, where the assumption, despite statements to the counter, was that because I did not like the photo and found it subtly racist that I must be hating on Viola Davis, and by extension Black women in general—which is just ludicrous. Is the strife between Black men and women really that bad?

Whoa! @Delano, I was reacting to your statement, "You are both assuming what Mel and Cynique think and instead of asking their opinion you speak on their behalf." The both could have only pertained to Pioneer and me. But I'm glad to read if was not intended for me. Sadly, much of the criticism of Farrakhan is cherry picked from white (often hostile) media coverage of the man. Sadly, much of the good Farrakhan has done, that @Pioneer1 described, was obviously unknown to you all and now is being completely ignored or marginalized. White media another job well done! No one is saying you have to follow Farrakhan's brand of Islam (I don't). But to discount the man's accomplishments as a leader who has turned the lives around of so many that society has through away is just wrong. Again, if you have not been to a service and seen the results, then you can't possibly know. Again if you rely on mainstream media for an understanding of Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam you are being lied to. @Delano, yes I'm aware of Wattstax; it was great. I saw the movie in the theater when it came out in the early 70's. But surely you realize that it was entertainment right. I could fill an arena with people to see the top Black Talent performing today. You are comparing apples to oranges; when comparing it to the MMM. No one is suggesting that Farrakhan is capable of saving all the Black inner cities why go off the deep end and suggest that @Cynique. Malcolm X and Dr. King combined failed to do that. We are talking about a mere mortal--far from perfect. No one here worships him. Seemingly, Black workshop is only acceptable when it is Obama. It will be very interesting to see what Obama does over the next 20 years. If he has nearly the impact that Farrakhan has I would be quite pleased, but very surprised. I'm sure you have seen this 60 Minute interview when Mike Wallace, a respected journalist, had to audacity to say that Nigeria could be the most corrupt Nation on Earth. @Cynique is Farrakhan wrong in the video below? Do you think Obama would say something like this. Do you see why Black folks in the so-called "inner city" very the two men differently?

@Pioneer1, do you really "get a lump in your throat, and feel an urge to put your hand over your heart when the flag goes by or somebody is singing the national anthem?"

@Del Snoop is world famous and enjoys an active career. He is a pop culture icon. Not speaking for Pioneer but why call Farrakhan a sell-out because he plays classic music, that seems a bit silly. Sort of like the way we used to tease kids who spoke proper English or tried to do well in school Farrakhan does not hate all white people I heard him say that he greatly admires Jascha Heifetz and that guy is Jewish. Y'all gotta stop listening to white people and listen to the man. Malcolm X called white people blue-eyed devils too, but even he was speaking about their behavior--which is, and has been, quite devilish. @Cynique I thought though you were talking about who knows Jillian Bond today. But even 22 years ago the disparity in recognition and respect for Farrakhan over Bond among Black people, men, in particular, would have been just as great. Jullian Bond simply could not have spearheaded the masses in the way that Farrakhan did--assuming he even had the inclination to do such a thing, which I doubt. But this is speculation on our parts and all we can really do is disagree about it...

...plus people lie on surveys giving responses to make themselves look good. Then there is the troll factor... We can poke holes in my little survey all day long. In case it was not obvious, I even said the survey was not scientific. Speaking of surveys and racism, I just about finished a book that I would recommend, Everybody Lies: Big Data, New Data, and What the Internet Can Tell Us About Who We Really Are by Seth Stephens-Davidowitz, It is really a fascinating study of big data. It attempts to explains why surveys and Facebook posts are flawed ways of understanding people and why our Google searches are much more revealing of our true selves. Google search, for example, indicate that child abuse, abortions, and even racism is much more prevalent than what the governmental data reports.

...well Del he was nicknamed "Wilt the Stilt" which is apropos

Del, Cynique was asking about the existence of the G-Spot. Female ejaculation really is another issue; you don't have to ejaculate when you climate as a result of stimulating the G-Spot and you can ejaculate as a result of vaginal stimulation. Del using the resource you provided, you can see the two things are of course related but not necessarily dependent upon each other: Despite earlier contrary claims, researchers have found evidence that a sensitive area (Grafenberg Spot) exists in the vaginal barrel. This area is a potential source of orgasm independent of clitoral stimulation. Other researchers have reported that some women experience a sudden spurt of fluid at the moment of orgasm. In the interest of contributing to further understanding of physiological and psychological sexual satisfaction, and alleviation of concerns about perceived urination during orgasm, the investigators explored a series of variables thought to be associated with perceptions of the Grafenberg Spot and its relationship, if any, to the female orgasmic response and female ejaculation. An anonymous questionnaire was distributed to 2,350 women in the United States and Canada, with a subsequent 55% return rate. A number of factors were found to be associated with perceived existence of a sensitive area in the vaginal barrel which, when properly stimulated, activates orgasm. Women who reported sensitive area orgasms were also more likely to report a spurt of fluid at moment of orgasm. Apparently, most women have never climaxed as a result of G-Spot stimulation and a large percentage of women have never climaxed at all...

Cynique, I'm not a follower of Farrakhan, but I recognize he commands more respect than all of the Brothers you mentioned, for the reasons I've outlined. Sure, I know who Julian Bond is, but I'm educated, 55 years old, and actively support Black people. Most Black high schoolers know who Farrakhan is. None of them will know Bond, only a few will know the NAACP--both the man and the institution, I'm sad to say, are irrelevant and have been for some time. Maybe this will change. I hope so. I supported the NAACP financially, off and on, over the years. I even promoted their book awards for years with less than no support from them... It was no surprise to me one of their chapters had a white girl running it without their knowledge... The greatest story ever told, niggas in the field From Solomon to Sambo to Django, it's fact I'm the Farrakhan of rap and I get it from the wheel --Jay Z I guess you'd need to be a Black man to better understand the difference between a Bond and a Farrakhan. It is the same strength exhibited by Malcolm X and Brothers like Huey Newton, and others. None of these men are perfect--no man is. But we seemingly can even agree on who are strong leaders are... You and I gave several reasons for the apparent lack of follow-through since the Million Man March. I was one of those Brothers who had no interest in attending, because Marches do nothing and many of the Brothers I knew who were most excited to go were some of the most trifling Brothers around. Still to get a million people to do anything is a tremendous accomplishment, to get that many people to do something important is sublime. Farrakhan had that potential. The religion is one thing that put a serious constraint on his effectiveness. I've attended services at their Mosque I have seen the positive impact on Brothers and Sisters, but as I said it is not for me. I've also heard Farrakhan speak live, in perhaps his prime, in the early 1980's he was the most skilled speaker I ever heard. (I would not say that today, because Farrakhan does tend to ramble as Cynique said. In fact, his speech during the Million Man March, wasn't so great--a missed opportunity). Has anyone else been to a NOI service or heard Farrakhan speak live? It is hard to judge the man if you've never heard him speak. Sort of like dissin' Go-Go music without hearing it live. Giving @Delano the "wachu-talkin-bout-willis" look. Man, I know you ain't talking about me assuming what other people believe. I'm the one asking the most questions, sometimes asking the same question 2 or 3 times. I'm the one who crafted a survey to ask even more people what they think. If I ever make a statement about what someone else believes it is an attempt to restate my understanding of what they said so that it is clear that I understand them. I doubt you will ever find me making a declaration of what someone else thinks without anything to support the supposition. Pioneer I agree with a lot of what you say. But the tide has turned on homosexuality, the horse is out the barn, the cat is out the bag, that ship has sailed, and you are not putting that genie back in the bottle... Just get used to it man.

OK then we are on the same page. But I never wrote anything denigrating Viola. Can you find one thing I wrote where I diminish the person, Viola Davis? I see her as the victim and I explained why it is possible she may not see herself as a victim. The 5th grader attending a substandard school, living in a substandard neighborhood won't his current condition is a function of racism. His lack of knowledge of that fact does not make it any less true... Of course in a time when the planet may soon be rendered uninhabitable Viola's picture is of no consequence. But I did find the discussion very revealing about relative perceptions. I suspect part of the reason Black folks find it difficult to make the changes you suggested we have not made is because we can't agree on what the problems actually are. For example, there are many Black folks who would even disagree that racism exists at all--even if they concede that it does exist, it does not matter because if you work hard you can make it in America. Then there are people so crippled by the white man they do nothing but languish in some ghetto or jail cell. And of course, we have everything in between. The total is a rounding error @Mel Hopkins . Again I wrote what I hoped would happen.

No one knows who Jullian Bond is and I seriously doubt Jessie of Sharpton could have done what Farrakhan did. The primary reason is that Farrakhan is viewed as his own man. A "Man's man" if you will. Sharpton and Jessie have the reputation of pimping corporations and are dependent upon them. Can you image a Million Man March, sponsored by McDonalds or Coke?

Cynique, surveys are tough to execute without bias. I'm also not suggesting that this is a scientific study. In fact, I removed the Time Magazine cover because I actually believed if the image was presented in the full context people would have found it MORE racist. But again if you can't see an iota of racism, then there is nothing I can say to convince you. There is no data that I can present to change your opinion. But as you can see from my unscientific survey Black people are largely split on the issue, some dramatically so. You may recall I too described the picture as a Rorschach test. I also wrote that I suspected those suggested to more racism would be more likely to see the photo as racist. So I'm not surprised every nonBlack person would find the photo both flattering and not racist. I will tell you this much; in America, it is not uncommon for a racist to not recognize their racism, and it is not unusual for the victim to fail to see it when it is staring them in the face. This has come from centuries of institutionalized racism and the marginalization of a people. ...and yes, in America, you CAN find racism in virtually anything, but it is not because we want to. It is simply part and parcel of our culture. From our Whitehouse to our to our local school boards; From our currency to our history books. @CyniqueaAsk yourself why is it that you refuse to call 45 your president? What conditions thrust him into power--racism was part of it. I could go on and on, but you know the deal.

No, I don't feel vindicated. All I was interested in doing was helping people see another perspective. They may disagree with, or not understand, the perspective, but they are no longer ignorant of it. Thinking, opening minded, people can't unsee what they have been shown, their awareness has been raised. It is really all I'm trying to do with the website, helping people to see that Black people are much more than the stereotypical memes and entertainers. Speaking of entertainers I bet the majority of Black people Time felt were "most influential" are Black people who entertain them. I have not looked at the entire list because I refuse to let Time determine, for me, who is important and I not inclined to do the research to make a point... but if someone else does it I'd definitely look t the results. As one of the commenters wrote, “I never thought of the picture as racist until this survey,” if you (@Pioneer1) had not posed the question I probably would not have even seen the photo much less thought about. But once I thought about it for more than 5 seconds, it seemed pretty obvious what it represented Now I'm not saying Time has an agenda, but Time operates in a White male dominated environment. Time Magazine's aesthetic reflects this and this does not optimally service Black people--but what else is new, welcome to America. @Cynique , do you see the distinction here? No one is ashamed of Black women. That would make us ashamed of ourselves The shame belongs to our racist culture...

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...or to move on to the next woman. When Chamberlain famously said he shagged 20,000 women, no one ever asked if he satisfied that many--now THAT would have been impressive Cynique in this age of women's liberation do you think the "men-give-attention-to-get-sex and women-give-sex-to-get-attention" idea holds true, or is this something hard wired into our nature?

Hi Cynique an open ended question like that would have been too vague. I could have asked Pioneer's question "what's wrong with this picture" and provided a list of options but, as you said, I wanted know if people thought the photo was racist when asked directly. Did you see the complete results?

Del I'm talking about the most popular rappers like Little Wayne or Snoop, not the Q-Tips. The rappers that the majority of the world know and regularly see. I agree, rappers span the gamut and there are a great variety of them. I was NOT indicting rappers, I was indicting the media images which depict grown men behaving as boys and the adverse stereotypes and they create and the resulting behavior the result when Black men mimic the images they see. Don't get me wrong it is not that I don't watch TV. I just don't watch very much of it. Unless I'm watching a documentary about don't use that media to learn about people. Similarly, I'm sure there are people who think I'm missing out on learning about the world and people by opting out of social media. I don't think so, I think we can learn much more about each other by reading books, articles, and even posts on discussion forums like this. And Cynique, I've on the business end of the "vodka-primed-girls-night-out" so I 'm what you are saying

@Delano why would a "Real" Black man want to delay his orgasm? See why you are confused with being gay? Before you ladies pounce on a negro I just wanted to relate another issue overlooked when it come to raising men; sex. I was a grown man before the notion of satisfying a woman was something I even considered. It is like we are supposed to learn this stuff through osmosis. Even worse some women, perhaps most, have no clue about their own bodies unable to offer and guidance leading to their own satisfaction. Some guys learn from porn, through the braggadocio of their homeboys, or some hooker. Sometimes men can learn a few things from an older woman. The "Kegel Lady" raised my awareness.

I just posted the preliminary results of the little survey asking if the photo of Viola flattering and Racist. The results are reflective of our conversation. It was interesting, to me, to see that 100% of the non-black respondents found the photo both flattering and nonracist. This, of course, comes as no surprise. Almost 72% of Black women did not think the photo was flattering almost 1/3 strongly disagreeing with the statement. See the complete summary.

Here are the results so far. The survey was prompted by a question posed in the conversation What's Wrong With This Picture? I’d encourage everyone to check out this conversation. During the conversation, you'll learn if the makeup artist was Black. You definitely read a wide variety of opinions; some of the comments may change the way you feel about this photo or they may strengthen your opinion. Here are the results so far: None of the non-Black respondents did saw the photo as racist and all of them agreed the photo was flattering. The responses from the Black Males were split. Half agreed the photo was racist and half felt it was the photo was flattering 10% of respondents were Black men, 10% were not Black (evenly split between male and female). 80% of the respondents were Black women The following are Responses from Just Black Women 80% of All Respondents Photo Racist and Not Flattering: 37% Photo Racist and Flattering: 3% Photo Not Racist and Not Flattering: 34% Photo Not Racist and Flattering: 26% These are the Comments from the survey respondents (comments were optional): “Why is a picture of a black woman wearing red lipstick, smiling broadly about something that made her bring her hands to her face so offensive? Subjective reactions to it are more about how white people will view the picture rather than how black people would. Many black women look this way and a broad smile is not something any woman should have to be judged for. I'd be interested in hearing Viola's comments about this candid shot. I'm actually American and of African Ascent ” “It is certainly not flattering, but not racist” “If black folk find this in any way racist, I will be edified.” “Viola Davis is such a beautiful black women. I had always admired her ""Blackness"" and darkness. It seems that they used the worst picture of her to make a mockery for Black women. Bottom line is that I think it was intentional to make her look like an animal. Blessings to Viola...” “God have mercy on (them) whoever!” “Ms Davis is a beautiful Black woman - end of story!” “For years the publication Time has been subtly racist. In my younger years I subscribed to this magazine, but after noting how snide and subtly derisive this publication can be when the subject of an article is black, I wrote them an angry letter and dropped my subscription. I see from this picture, where they seemed to wait until they found the most unflattering posture and snapped the picture, they haven't changed at all. Regards, Pat” “I don't understand the question. Is this a picture of Viola in a role, or is it just a picture. She has many different looks, she wears her hair in many different styles, so in what context is the question being asked.????” “I never thought of the picture as racist until this survey. My first reaction to it when I first saw it was to just think it was not a good picture, period. The colors don't mix at all. It's too many colors, actually, for something so serious and a woman of her stature. She's not a pop star, but a great and studious actress. I kind of feel like I know what they were going for- joy and all that- but they missed the mark. I am also tired of them making Viola into some charity case who is ecstatic she survived abject poverty and childhood trauma. I get that, that's great and all. But, we are just proud of her as a beautiful artist and woman who is a joy to watch in all her diverse roles like a Meryl Streep or Kate Winslet. We're not framing her in her past.” “I am sure this wasn't her best photo of the evening. It definitely brings to mind the old red lipped big teeth grinning Negro. Not to be ashamed of showing a toothy smile or wearing red lipstick...but she's only a hair away from wearing a bandana and apron here. She's beautiful, this doesn't really look like Viola Davis!” “I am curious what is racist about it? I think she looks beautiful. However it does look like a lot of photoshop.” “It show how ridicules we look we try to adopt white culture. Hair makeup etc.” “An expert professional photographer could have gotten a better photo of Viola Davis; the photo is not flattering at all.” “This is a photo of Ms. Davis. I feel it may not be the most flattering of photos, but I don't see anything racist about an actual photo. She is smiling and posing.” “Somehow, when profiling women who are not of color, they seem to be photographed in a more appealing profile.”