Troy

Sara stop posting about quote, Pioneer's use of quoting is acceptable in this instance. I quote people from time to time. Your wholesale copying of other posts is the problem. I've tried to explain the difference to you, but you obviously don't get it or care. I moderate the forums, not you. So spare everyone the childish remarks and tattling--I will delete those too,

The following text was pulled from my facebook page. Technically the book was not directly mentioned in my eNewsletter, but it was indirectly mentioned as it is one of a set of selected books I've included in my list of up coming books. “Thank you to Troy Johnson for including The Gilded Years by Karin Tanabe in AALBC.com's June e-newsletter. It is a historical novel based on the true story of Anita Hemmings [pictured below]. Before you let "historical novel" turn you off, first know that Anita Hemmings was the first black woman to graduate from Vassar College in the 1890s. The Gilded Years, although a fictionalized account, truly captures the spirit of not only that time in our history but you'll find yourself rooting for Anita Hemmings, wanting her to cross the finish line - graduate from Vassar - before she's "found out." She put everything on the line to attend her dream school, which at the time did not admit black women. Yet, she did so by passing as a white woman, a decision that she and her family did not make lightly. For three years, the highly intellectual, multilingual Anita Hemmings kept her head in her books, made few to no friends, and focused on her goals, until her graduate year when she met her new roommate. Lottie was the girl on campus that everyone wanted as a friend. She came from a monied Manhattan family. She was fun. Lottie lived life her way and every girl admired her. She and Anita became fast friends - like sisters - until they got a little too close for comfort. Although Anita enjoyed her new life as Lottie's best friend, she risked losing everything she'd worked so hard for. With the turn of each page, you'll find yourself in fear for Anita, laughing with her as she and her friends enjoy the fruits of their senior year of college, and crying with her when she had to make hard decisions that involved her heart. The Gilded Years publishes on June 7. Please take it with you to the beach, on vacation, or wherever your travels take you over the coming months.” I think it is an interesting story, particularly in the context of the race conversations we have been having. @Pioneer1 what genetic test would you run to determine this sista's Blackness? Keep in mind her "whiteness" past muster with upper class white folks; arguably the most racist folks to exist.

LOL! Actually Chris did bring data into the mix. But i don't think it is personal with me... ah maybe it is, how could it not be? Cynique did you see the 2nd episode of Roots? Kunta escaped to fight with the British? If you read the research I shared you'll see that poor, under educated, Black men disproportionate serve in the military. As discussed it is a perfectly rational decision because options for these brother are very limited. Kunta's options were limited too so he was was anxious to fight for the British, at least until he saw how he and the others were being used. Some left, some stayed and died, and some survived and got their freedom. Is it really so different today?

Our latest newsletter - Great New Books, Bestsellers and More! Please share with other lovers of literature. https://madmimi.com/s/d137b7

Congrats on the new book ladies. I'm posting the cover below though I'd encourage readers to visit your website. I think the book cover design contest was an interesting idea. Was there any cost involved with setting that up? Also I'd encourage you to sign up for Amaon's affiliate program, have someone do it on your behalf, or simply use this URL http://amzn.to/1sqb6Rp when sending people to Amazon. Learn why this matters by reading this article.

Here is a research report that summarizes more formerly some of the points I've raised here written here: Who Joins the Military?: A Look at Race, Class, and Immigration Status, it is 23 pages long. It is an academic research paper so I don't expect most of y'all to read it but it if will give you some insight of where I'm coming from. If anyone wants to discuss it please start another conversation. Chris, I do know that there have been studies about the dangers in other occupations, I'm sure you seen the list that pop up every year saying which occupations are most dangerous. Solider is number 5 or 6 behind construction worker. But to your point (and others) not every person in the service is a "trigger puller," so roles outside of combat may be even safer than working as a teacher in an inner city neighborhood. But I think you understand where I'm coming from. Cynique I'm not sure why you are mystified after reading some of the posts which included statements like; "...I want to make sure AfroAmericans are WELL REPRESENTED inside the military," or "The military is still considered a great opportunity by most observers," or "My service has influenced me to say on many occasions that all kids should serve in some capacity," or "Such valuable and eye-opening experiences can never be overstated nor underestimated!" Now I appreciate I cherry picked lines, but they are completely in line with the sentiments of the complete statements. You say my statements were "awash in an undercurrent of negativity," I think this is more a reflection of your sentiments than of what I actually wrote. To be clear if you find a representative statement that I wrote that was awash in negativity I'll address it or admit that you might be right. Keep in mind that like most Black people I have too have family members that are ex or current military too, some have done very well for themselves others not so. But again my point is that in a country as wealthy as America we have to be able to provide better options, for Black men in particular, than jail, the military, some low wage job, or unemployment (maybe this is one of those statement awash in negativity?). Of course I realize Black men have the option of going to college and go, I also realize that Black people can enter the armed services and do well for themselves. Bu the reality is 17% of Black men actually get college degrees, while 33% can expect to spend some time in jail. Of course many of the incarcerated also have degrees but still the number speak for themselves. It is hard to determine with information I can find quickly if military service has any impact on the above. For example how many men avoided jail as a result of military service and how many men when to college as a result of military service and vice-versa (how many did not go to college or ended up in jail because of military service). Maybe the data has never been collected One last thought, at the risk of being too negative; we have surveys from Pew research which show the majority of Female veterans -- of all colors found the following: women veterans are more critical than their male counterparts of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan—fully 63% say the Iraq war was not worth fighting and 54% say Afghanistan has not been worth it (compared with 47% and 39% of male veterans, respectively). Among the general public, by contrast, there are no significant differences by gender in the share who say the post-9/11 wars were not worth fighting. So while my primary focus has been on men, women, Black ones in particular need more support, and not to rain on everyone's parade, but did we even address the overwhelming incidence of rapes in the military?

@Xeon, that was very well put. A forum where everyone agreed with what I think would not be intellectually stimulating or very much fun. I fully appreciate many people do not like their ideas challenged. Most avoid this like the plague, which is what makes Facebook so popular, their algorithm is designed to show readers information that supports their world view, because it pulls folks in, which is far more profitable that letting people freely express themselves. But social media has the impact of narrowing people's world views, giving them the false impression that their beliefs are universally shared or that dissenting views that slip in are aberrational. I banned Igbo Girl because that poster was a troll Kola Boof was using. Some poster recognized Igbo Girl was a Kola Boof sock puppet, because of the writing style. I was able to determine this because of the IP address used. I only ban trolls. But as you observed I rarely exercise this option. Unkle Ruckus, and Celestial-something were the last two banned, but they really deserved it Sometimes trolls do not reveal themselves right away, so they can get away for while before banned, this is a consequence of allowing too much freedom. Xeon if your participation here is any indication, I can't image why you would be banned on a discussion forum. Contributions like yours are what enriches conversation--even through you are overly infatuated with the military

Sara the idea that you would pass on going to the library does not surprise me. Sara why hurls barbs at Harry? He said he mistyped--which is something we all do and he answered the question. Similarly why all the machinations over conceding that you were incorrect about the quoting of a single paragraph. You would not be the first person you was wrong about something. We all have been wrong. -------------------- Finally @Sara, and this is important: if you (or anyone else who makes a habit of it) persist on quoting full comments from other posters, I will simply delete them--unread. If I have to spend time deleting these too often, I will prevent the offending poster from post. Please stop doing it. Sorry for taking such extreme measures If I could stop people from doing this in software I would, but I can't so I have to resort to a brute force tactic which I'm not a fan of. For example, there is absolutely no reason for you to fully quote Harry's post when you are entering the very next post. When you do this you clutter the board and make is harder for others to read it.

@Xeon, of course the question "Better than what?" makes sense to the statement, "I know a lot of Black men and women who did and most of them came out better." In fact, that question ALWAYS makes that most sense when someone say that something is better or worse. If you want to describe something as not making sense, lets look at your statement; "...people who generally serve in the military are better after they leave the military than when were prior to entering the service for the most obvious reasons." What is obvious about that? We have already discussed that people in the military suffer from PTSD, homelessness, suicide, all at rates higher than people who did not go into the military. Your statement makes no sense in light of these facts. Also how can you be so confident that if people did something else with their time, like go to college, learn a trade, or just get a job, that they would be worse off than if they went into the military? As Chris mentioned the negative outcomes of military service has to do with the job you are in and other factors. And as already stated there are of course people who come out better as a result of Military service, Chris is an example. However Chris' alternative was JAIL! I'd recommend anyone go into the military, every day of the week, if the option was jail. I have one simple question for you Xeon: Do you think that all young men and women should serve in the military? @Cynique, I'm not sure why you are accusing me of lecturing, and not anyone else, including yourself.. We are debating the issues and making arguments . But I think I get why you are so defensive of my critique of the military. I think you are receiving it as if I'm personally attacking all the men in your life who have served, I'm not doing that. Again, I'm not focusing on Individuals. I like Chris, and am glad he had a great experience, but I'm not going to judge the entire armed forces on his experience, any more than I would judge it on the experience of my father's, who was able to show his premature death was related to his military service. I'm also not sure why you use adjectives like "revolted" and "despised" in describing my feeling about the armed services. I did not use these words, nor do I feel this way. Indeed, I wrote that we NEED the military, because we do. I'm only advocating that we treat the people better than we currently do. But improving how we treat our military personnel will never improve if we all bury our heads in the sand and act like there aren't any problems that need correcting. I also believe that Black men, in particular, are presented with so few options that the military is often their only decent choice. I don't feel this should be the case either. So sure Cynique, that is the "world as it exists," but that does not mean we can't try to change it. @CDBurns, interestingly I went to a high school that had a class that taught us little life skills, like writing a checks, banks account, even how to buy a used car.

@CDBurns, when talking about the military, or anything for that matter, we have to separate individual experiences from that of the whole group. I don't doubt that you and many others have wonderful experiences in the military, but again those are just your opinions from your relatively narrow experience within the entire US Armed forces. Like the proverbial blind men describing an elephant your experience doesn't make you wrong or right they are your experiences, I'm not judging you on that. How can I? I'm not you. Even if I shared your identical experience in the military I would have come away with a completely different impression, because I'm not you. What I'm talking about is the US military in general, looking across the entire service. Now when you examine something with at such a high level, this has little to do with individual experiences. It is like taking the average height of 100 people: it is possible to calculate an average height that none of people actually have. That does not make the average height value useless because no one is that height. So while there homelessness is higher for ex military personnel, than the general population, that does not mean you will be homeless if you join the military. But the fact there is a higher propensity toward homelessness for the group is not a good thing, but you've suggested some causes that might be perfectly plausible At the end of the day we need a military, but my problem is that I think we use it recklessly and spend too much money on it. I also know the military industry complex is driving the spend because it is lucrative. I seem to remember reading we spend more than the next 20 countries -- why? I also don't like the fact that too many Black kids find the military is their only option. I do know other Brothers my age that were given the choice between jail and the Military (one came out the Military and ended up in jail). I don't think they give Brother that option anymore; cause locking Blackmen up is now lucrative too. . Finally I mentioned indoctrination, because since you've gone through it, it is harder for you to see things the way someone who has not gone through it. Do you see my point? You are naturally less likely to be critical of the Military because you are part of it even was only 8 years. As for Cynique, her motivation for being so uncyniquely defensive of the military and roping you into this conversation is less obvious. I suspect it is a generational thing you know the folks old enough to remember WWII. Knew what it was like to come together as a nation and fight Hitler, the Japanese c=and communism. Rationing food and metal, women working the jobs men left behind, all that stuff the greatest generation is know for--I dunno Cynique what is it?

Sara, I see you have trouble understanding the nature of the web and hyper links. I cited the publication, which means if you want to read the article you have to go to the library or something (again everything is not on the web), the hyperlink was to Herb Boyd page so that you would know who he is. I wrote I was done, I slipped up LOL I removed the quote you pasted from instagram, which was broken was i the process and needlessly copied. I will continue to delete unnecessarily quoted content you past from your posts as I discovered them. If you don't like it sorry. I watched the episode too. Of course it was much better produced than the original and did a much better job of depicting the humanity of the Africans, while in Africa. The people were beautiful.

@Pioneer1 (I like the new avatar), man I can drink dairy and eat ice all day long and I'm in my 50's now what? Also people from other parts of African are also able to digest lactose. Again skin color is genetically determined (ignoring environmental factors), but as we've written numerous times; skin color is insufficient to to determine what you understand as race. I'd bet most of the genetic variation we observe in human is due more to environment (geography, available food supply, climate, etc). Cultures come and go too quickly to have much of an influence on our genetics.

If Snoop did not do a lot of cussing it probably would not have been shared a bazillion times. I was doing a search to trying to find the start time for Roots and the video popped up. Honestly, I'm a little disappointed in myself for contributing the the echo chamber that has become the social media fueled internet. Snoops video was almost 9,000 times and hour over the last 10 hours! If Snoop was really a "real Nigga," he'd stop enriching Mark and his boys at Facebook and help uplift some Black owned websites. Humm... I think I'll add this comment to the 12 hundred other ones.

Apparently Snoop D O double G agrees. It looks like I missed the first episode, it started an hour ago here...

"Courlander's 1978 suit was successful and proved that eighty-one passages from Roots were copied from Courlander's 1967 book, The African, which subsequently led to decreased scholarly interest in Haley." --Herb Boyd, "Plagiarism and the Roots Suits," First World 2, no. 3 (1979): 31–33, 31–32. Seems I'm not the only one less interested in Haley's work. If white people selling the book and making another miniseries if is enough to validate Haley's literary merit for you great and if that put me in the minority even better. Half a million dollars, in 1978, is cheap to you?! My God woman... I'm done here.

Monday, June 13, 8:30 AM–5:00 PM FROM THE BLACK ARTS MOVEMENT TO CAVE CANEM To celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Black Arts Movement and the 20th anniversary of Cave Canem, a day-long symposium featuring two panels and a Master Class in children’s literature. This event is co-sponsored by the Folger Shakespeare Library’s O.B. Hardison Poetry Series, PEN/Faulkner Foundation, We Need Diverse Books, and Cave Canem Foundation. 8:30AM – 12:30PM: Master Class featuring Kwame Alexander, Jacqueline Woodson, and other faculty members, Jason Low, publisher at Lee & Low Books; Jennifer Brown, publisher at Knopf Books for Young Readers, a Penguin Random House imprint; and Cassandra Pelham, senior editor at Graphix, a Scholastic imprint. *Master Class open only to accepted applicants. 2:00PM – 3:30PM: Panel One: “Writing Across Genre,” featuring Tony Medina and Marilyn Nelson, moderated by Marita Golden 3:30PM – 5:00PM: Panel Two: “Organizing Founders,” featuring Michael Datcher, Toi Derricotte, and, Sharan Strange, moderated by Joanne Gabbin Evening events to follow at the Folger Shakespeare Theater. Location: LJ-119, First floor, Thomas Jefferson Building Contact: (202) 707-5394 from Kwame Alexander Author of The Crossover, awarded the 2015 Newbery Medal for Most Distinguished Contribution to American Literature for Children

Chris you appreciate the fact that the purpose of boot camp is indoctrination right? It is no different than pledging a frat, you are broken down to be built back up again. This is a necessary part of the process otherwise you'd have too much insubordination and a lack of unity. Anytime you go through a challenging experience with anyone bonds are formed and this of course is well understood by the military. But if you assert and believe the argument, that you have to serve in order to speak on the issue. i guess there is nothing a non military person can say to you that would influence you. But you must appreciate that "you can't understand until you've done it" argument is flawed for several reasons. i guess the biggest one is that people in the military disagree with each other. My father served in the Navy, much longer than you served, 20 years. One of the few things he ever said to me was "don't go into the military." He died at age 44. But that is just an anecdote as is all of your experience and the experiences of everyone else you know. You can get much better insight by looking at the information you found: "...veterans continue to remain overrepresented in the homeless population in America." basically that says if you go into the military your chances of being homeless increase over that of the general population. You don;t need to have served in the military to understand this. Cynique wrote that enlisted men go into to become officers citing it as a benefit. I knew that to be inaccurate, but I know her belief is part of what informs her opinion. At the end of the day Chris, you spent 8 years in and had a great experience and that is terrific. All I'm saying is not everyone has your experience, some even end up dead. I'm also suggesting that many of the young people that sign up don't feel they have many other options, and I'd argue that is a problem of our culture. In fact it sounds like you are one of those people. @CDBurns, what path were you headed down that made you join the military?

Sara it would be a less cluttered and easier to follow your points if you did not quote everything others wrote in your responsest. Your response to me is more difficult to parse than necessary because me quoted text and your response is formatted exactly the same. If you are reply to a question I posted a few hours ago it is not necessary to quote me, I'll remember what I wrote. I did post the link to the Times article. Sorry if I come across snippy, but you know you never move from a position once you've asserted it. You wrote only one paragraph was plagiarized, emphasising only one. Because it was absurd on it's face I challenged on on it. But once it became clear that there was obviously more than one paragraph copied you called into question the journalism of the paper of record and shifted the argument to focus on whether Haley intended the book to be pure fiction versus an account of his family's story. Unfortunately I don't really care enough to hunt down a link to determine when/if haley flipped flopped on his description of roots. Besides, despite popular belief, not everything can be found in a Google search. To properly establish the chronology of statement would require some good old fashion research to establish a timeline. We do know Haley's genealogy as presented in Roots can't be substantiated. Is the book worthless--compared to what? Compared to a well written historical fiction novel--yes. What made Roots so very compelling (at least for me) was that is was presented as truth. Once it was revealed for what it is, the novel is was down on my list, and is only interesting as far a fraudulent literature is concerned. But again you assert that the book was always presented a fiction, but that is not my recollection and you apparently have no memory of the period and are relying on the echo chamber of lies bouncing around the web. In fact, all of Haley work is suspect as far as I'm concerned including the biography of Malcolm X.

Are you suggesting that the New York Times simply made up the figure and that you don't believe it? You don't find it odd that the editors of the Norton Anthology of African American Literature failed to include the book? Haley said Roots was faction only after he got busted. The judge presiding over the case said Haley "perpetrated a fraud." Are you old enough to remember when the miniseries broadcast? If so, you'll also remember that it was not presented as fiction but a family history, a lot of effort was put into making it appear factual including a trip to Gambia. I guess you also believe Haley is a direct descendant of Kunta Kinte too. But that is fine Sara, I know from experience with you that new information and facts don't inform your opinions once you have your mind set. I gave it a shot, but I give up.

Cynique, if you had to guess, what percentage of enlistees, ultimately go on to become commissioned officers? If I had to guess I would bet is is less than the number who have been killed in action, mained, and suffer from PTSD. What percentage of vets do you think actually go on to complete college for free? I would be willing to bet that it is less than the number of homeless vets and vets whose families struggle to survive while they are deployed over seas. Finally, you don't need to risk your life to get a mortgage. Again middle class people with options get mortgages without difficulty. Look, I'm not saying the military, does not offer "benefits," I get that. This is why so many thousands of poor people enlist. My problem is that these benefits are only beneficial to those with limited options. Who wants a life that is not your own? You are told when to get up, what to do, and precisely how to do it -- up to and including getting into the line of fire--and for what? I hope the answer is more than just the "benefits" you've described.

“Actor-director-producer Nate Parker made history by inking a landmark $17.5 million Sundance deal to sell his slavery drama The Birth of A Nation to Fox Searchlight, starting his 2017 Oscar campaign a full year early. The vibrant and lyrical portrait of the divisive African American hero is an incendiary inquiry into themes of racism and faith that still echo today.”—Daily Beast Set against the antebellum South, The Birth of a Nation follows Nat Turner (Nate Parker), a literate slave and preacher, whose financially strained owner, Samuel Turner (Armie Hammer), accepts an offer to use Nat's preaching to subdue unruly slaves. As he witnesses countless atrocities - against himself and his fellow slaves - Nat orchestrates an uprising in the hopes of leading his people to freedom. (In Theaters: Oct 7, 2016 Limited) It seems Park's film is not a reboot of 1915 film Birth of a Nation (which dealt with the Civil War and the rise of the Klan in it's aftermath). Nate's story is about the Nat Turner. I'm looking forward to this one!

This is picking up on the Roots conversation started by Harry which segued into a conversation about Race. I still don't think remaking Roots was necessary given, as we've discussed the great many other stories which have yet to make it to the screen. It is curious The Atlantic failed to mention the fact the Alex's story was largely fictional, as if this does not matter. When Roots broadcast it was presented as truth. (@Sara, do you think Haley would have paid over $500,000, in an out of court settlement, for plagiarizing a single paragraph?) The Atlantic did mention Nate Parker’s record-breaking Birth of a Nation. I heard something about a film being made sometime ago, but I have heard nothing about a finished film until now. I own the original Roots novel and DVD. Over the years I've tried to get my own 20 something daughters the watch the Roots miniseries, but they have no interest in seeing it. I have not spoken to them at all about this new version. I will watch it. i will try to keep an open mind and manage my expectations. Why the Roots Remake Is So Important by STEPHANE DUNN The Atlantic, May 29, 2016 In an age of remakes and reboots, it’s no surprise that A&E announced that it was “reimagining” the epic drama in an effort to appeal to a new generation of viewers. The four-part miniseries, which begins airing Monday, is executive produced by Mark Wolper, whose father David Wolper helped create the original Roots with Haley. While it may be easy to question the worth of a remake given the original’s masterpiece status, A&E’s Roots has the kind of high production values that can better translate the visual power of its predecessor to younger audiences. But more importantly, the new series brings new light to the misperception that popular culture has done a good job telling stories about slavery and black history in the decades since Roots first gripped the U.S. To date, America’s most defining chapter, slavery—with all of its complexity, contradictions, and endless fictional and true narrative possibilities—has been under-treated by Hollywood. The recent visibility of films such as the Oscar-winning 12 Years a Slave, Nate Parker’s record-breaking Birth of a Nation, the intriguing, savvy WGN series Underground, and Django Unchained, Tarantino’s fantastical slave era-cowboy hero flick—might make it appear otherwise. (BET’s unusual but laudable 2015 effort, The Book of Negroes miniseries, failed to widely engage American viewers.) read the full article Why America Forgot About ‘Roots’ By MATTHEW F. DELMONT The New York Times, May 27, 2016 But “Roots” fell out of favor almost as quickly as it rose, in part because Haley’s story started to unravel as soon as it was in print. He relied heavily on an editor to finish the book and later paid over half a million dollars to settle a plagiarism suit. Other people were upset with the way ABC, Haley and Doubleday, his publisher, seemed to be wringing money from the history of slavery. It was also hard for people to pin down “Roots.” Was it fact or fiction? Haley, who died in 1992, said it was a bit of both, a mix of archives, oral traditions and imagination in a composite narrative he called “faction.” The television version complicated matters further, insisting that the production was based on a true story while billing the series as an “ABC novel for television.” If “Roots” was too fictional for most historians, its version of historical fiction was not literary enough for English departments. “Roots” is notably absent from The Norton Anthology of African American Literature, which runs to nearly 3,000 pages. The literary critic Arnold Rampersad described “Roots” as being “so innocent of fictive ingenuity that it seldom surpasses the standards of the most popular of historical romances.” read the full article

Well it would not just be rich people, it would also be middle class folks who would complain too. I think much of the aversion to Vietnam had more to do with the draft than the senseless killing of southeast asians. Do you think Ali would have spoken out against the war so vigorously if he weren't forced to go himself? Don't you think there would be at least a little more outrage against the protracted wars in the middle east if our sons and daughters were legally obligated to go? You'd hardly know there is a war going on today, because people with options are not affected by the wars and people without options have no voice. Meanwhile the rich get richer, for wars mean money for the oligarchy, and if Black people believe going in the military is a good thing--it is better for the rich.

Pioneer sure anyone would take free land, but the idea these same folks will also go work this land, build the necessary infrastructure, to live there is naive and short sighted--we hardly support our own businesses now. That said, there are groups of people who are building their own communities on the own land, we don't need reparations to do this we, just the the desire, and it is simply not there.

Of course one would also have to hypothetically assume that race also exists in order for this thought experiment to even make sense. Despite that @Pioneer1 you don't have to consider this hypothetically, we live in a world that believed Black people are intellectually inferior--this is the reality. To answer your question just look around. There have been many books written over the last century that promulgated the concept of Black inferiority or white superiority. Of course all of these books are garbage and have no basis in science. But again these ideas persist because people can not let go of the concept of race, and understand we are all part of the same race, Human.