Troy

Well I saw For Colored Girls last night. For Carey's benefit every comment that ever made about the movie stands. Actually I could have said that before I saw the movie because I never previously offered an opinion of the film itself, just commentary on the debate and on the comments of others. The film itself was OK. I'd give it 2 stars out of five. One tremendous plus was For Colored Girls was an excellent showcase of some of the best or most popular Black actresses working today. I enjoyed Thandie, though her accent grated on my nerves. Even the secondary males characters were quite good. Loretta Divnine's faux beau was perfectly cast and Kimberly Elise's baby daddy was convincing as well. I do not think it was a male bashing film. If anything, women could make a much better case for being offended. But I won’t presume to speak for the Sisters in this case -- as very few I spoken with seem to mind. My biggest complaint about the flick was that Ntozake's poetry seems to have been shoehorned into the film. The movie seemed disjointed during the transition the from dialog to the soliloquies. If you were unfamiliar with the original play, you would have asked yourself, “what the heck is this character talking about” at least until you became accustomed to the technique. Maybe if the background was darkened and a spot light was put on the character while they were reciting Ntozake's work (sort of the way they do during Shakespearean plays), that may have helped. The film was also set in the present day but based upon a 40 year old work. The mismatch was evident in the film. The days of back alley abortions in New York City are a thing of the past. Similarly the "Low Down" man being converted into "Down Low" Brother was a liberty that was taken purely for dramatic effect -- a Tyler Perry trademark. Overall I think the film would have worked better if Tyler simply rewrote the work entirely -- basically starting from scratch using updated, modern material. Tyler could have even engaged Ntozake and other poets create the new material. Alternatively, he could have set the flick in the 70's, but I think fresh material would have worked best. For Colored Girls work represents a film which goes beyond the coonin’ and buffoonin’ for which Tyler is constantly accused of producing. This plus his ability to corral a large stable of talent bodes well for future work. Work that I’m looking forward to seeing.

Yeah, this made me laugh too -- even the second time I read it...

As usual an interesting editorial Cynique. I think Barack, once his presidency is over and they've renamed a gazilion schools and avenues after him will go down in history as a trailblazing, leader, a great man. History, I suspect, will be kind to Tyler too. Universal respect and adulation right now, during their prime, or even life times will be difficult. But is that not the case with Black people in general? Uber-successful Black people have it even worse. MLK and Malcolm were very controversial figures, in the Black community, during their lives. It was not until years after they were murdered that they were universally respected. Condi, Clarence and Colin, despite fantastic levels of success, but any measure, are regularly lambasted by black folks. Billionaires Bob Johnson, and Oprah can';t seems to win universal love from black folks either. They say if you ain't got anyone hatin' on you, then you ain't doing shit. Looks like Tyler and Barack are doing plenty...of shit.

That is exactly what I'm saying John. Your point about awareness of the "Classics" is unfortunately echoed by educators all over the country. Tyler's potential is limitless. As you mentioned Tyler owns the means of production -- and that is a very big deal. He has the ability to produce films that no one else can or will. For Colored Girls is just one example. He is essentially the lone voice when it comes to making films with predominately Black cast telling "Black" stories. As a result, Tyler Perry he is going to be subject to far more criticism that a majority film maker because his films mean so much to our community. And of course this is a difficult role for any person. Tyler has to produce films that are both commercially viable, and that tell our stories, all within the confines of his ability. As his ability and resources improve, so should his product. Indeed if he gives other people opportunities to avail themselves of his resources, with a modicum of consciousness, who knows what great work will come out of Atlanta in the near future.

Carey, when you went to see For Colored Girls, how did you make the decision to select this flick? Beyond that I no longer had the energy or time to defend every comment of mine that you have distorted for you own purposes. For example, I did not say Ealy's comments have no merit (otherwise I would not have bothered to read them myself), I was simply stating that he comments were biased by virtue of the fact that he was in the film. He would have very little incentive to say anything against the film considering that it is still in theaters and Tyler paid him to be in it. This point should be profoundly obvious. Therefore it clear that we can't have a meaningful discussion about the film. If you spent less time tying to poke holes in my words, and put more effort into understanding what I'm trying to communicate, we might have a meaningful exchange of ideas.

John H great post and welcome! I'm still laughing at the quote “...wrung the beauty and truth out of the original in almost every possible way...” The "peculiar condescension" you refer to is evident in every aspect of our culture. However I think the "hate" is mis-directed at Tyler, his work and the people who love it so much. The issue is multifaceted but can be, in my mind, summed up as follows: I truly believe the level of education, and literacy has adversely impacted not only our ability to produce great work but our ability to consume or even recognize it! What little remaining "high brow" music, literature, film that is produced today is given such dismal support (read: purchased), that it can't survive on its own merit, and is left to eek out an exisitence on the largess of universities, and a decreasing number of not-for-profits. This is not solely a Black thing; it is cultural. Pee-Wee Herman, the Addams family and everything Disney is on Broadway, television has been all but taken over by "Reality TV", and Jazz is a dying art form taken over by teenagers rhyming over samples of music produced by real musicians a generation before. Even books like the Coldest Winter Ever (all due respective to Sista Soulja) are being called great literature. Tyler's success (all due respect to him too) is a symptom of a much larger problem. While the mention of your book was subtle (appreciate you not posting just a flagrant commercial), I'll take the liberty of providing more information about your book. Faces in the Mirror: Oscar Micheaux & Spike Lee by John R. Howard http://aalbc.it/facesin

All I apologize when I made my comments last night I completely missed the second page of the conversation. That said my original comments stand PLUS. Carey, as I said I've read a lot of reviews -- including your emotion fueled rants. I even read Michael Ealy's comments. But Michael was a star in the film and clearly his comments are biased. Did expect Ealy to have ANYTHING bad to day about the film? Ealy points out that "Hill Harper was one good man". Sheesh he was the ONLY good, man and one can even argue that, by the way he questioned the rape victim. Further, the male characters were manufactured by Tyler. Which is one reason I agree with Kola that men should have been left out... But alas that is seemingly all Tyler knows how to do - pit evil men against Christian women. "To a boy with a hammer all the world is a nail".

Carey as I suspected, your font choice has no impact on your argument. Are you trying to suggest that my watching virtually all of Tyler previous films has no bearing on this one? Are there no similarities, no indication of his "creative" touch? Are you saying that the trailers, the scores of reviews I've read, actor interviews (several of which I've published) including conversations with Ntozake herself, mean nothing? I also saw at least two performances of the Stage play as well as the PBS specials from back in the day. No I did not see this film, but that does not mean that I can not comment on the portions of which that I'm aware. Indeed, two people who have actually SEEN the movie will come away with very different reactions. People will remember different things, and what they remember will be remembered differently. You might also note that none of my comments have anything to do with specifics from the flick. I've asked questions, based my comments on information provided by others and said from the outset I had not seen the film. In fact the stuff you are accusing me of I never stated. I never accused Tyler of man bashing -- you manufactured that story. Carey please answer one simple question: When you went to see For Colored Girls, how did you make the decision to select this flick?

...ah, this is reminenscent of the good 'ole days at thumper's Corner... Carey take a deep breath and keep in mind increasing the font size of your posts will not strengthen your argument. One question begs asking off the top; what makes your comments about the movie valid and those of the others I've heard, particularly those of professional reviewers, "garbage"? Why can't someone voice an opinion abut a movie they've never seen, once they know what it is about? After seening my first snuff film; I know I don't want to see any more - I don't care how well it is done or what the reviewers have to say. The same pretty much goes for Tyler Perry flicks. Tyler has a formula. Which works for a lot of people and that is cool. Formulas work and are indeed necessary for romance novels and street fiction; stray too much from the script and you risk losing an audience. Right now if someone wants to go to the theater and see a film with more than two Black people in it, then Tyler Perry flicks are the only game in town. This, more than anything, else is the real problem: There is a profound lack of variety and volume of major motions pictures with majoirty Black casts. Imagine a world in which all the books, with Black characters, in it were in the street fiction genre. Do you think people would complain more or less? Back to Perry's Film: I actually agree with Kola (I sure it is snowing on hell right about now) in that men should not have been in the flick at all or had very minimal roles. But that would have made the flick even more difficult to pull off; Given the Perry MO. As I suspected the box office take, opening weekend, For Colored Girls was the 2nd lowest of any Perry flick and is on track to be one of his lowest grossing movies. It would be interesting to know how much each in the star studded cast was paid to do do the flick But fear not I'm sure the 2011 release of Madeas Big Happy Family will greatly enrich Perry coffers.

Kola I have to say that was a very interesting reimagining of Ntozake's work. I don't think anyone is putting Tyler Perry down as a person -- His is an incredible success story. However we can critique his movies -- even the ones we have not seen On one hand Chrishayden has no problem with the flick 'cause he knows Tyler was not talking about him. However the universal female response is to the flick is one echoed by Dennise Marie (welcome by the way): "...We all carry scars and can relate to at least one of the characters in the movie." If all women can relate to a least one character, then presumably there is at least one man responsible for that abuse. So either there are a few Brothers wrecking a whole lot of havoc or many Brothers causing Sisters a lot of grief. The more plausible explanation, given the numbers of women having the Oprahian ability to relate to the characters in For Colored Girls, is that there are many Brothers (not Chrishayden) causing these problems. Given the stats and how the flick resonates with so many women, if looks like we are just a very damaged community and the Brother who have issues with the flick are in profound denial.

Chris you are right, everyone ain't on the web. And if they are starting out they are at a serious disadvantage today, 'cause MANY other poets and authors are. I'm sure there are also many extraodinary poets and authors, not online, but you and I will never learn about them and they will not attract a large audience in today's world, because they are not online. It is 2011 Chris get the lead out and catch up with the rest of us.

Here is a link to AALBC.com interviews with Janet Jackson, Tyler Perry an review of the Film.

Linda. I did not see the movie. Would a well meaning man be justified by having issues with how the Black male characters were portrayed in this flick?

Hey Linda you know we love you too, but I just simply took the names of the most frequent posters from the past. You came in at #55

Hey Mequel, thanks for sharing on this forum. I hope you do not mind me "outing" you as a long term lurker. It will help folks understand you are not just talking out "the side of your neck" To answer some of your question here on from Facebook: AALBC.com has a presence on every popular social media platform. Over the past year I’ve found I’ve benefited most from Facebook. I created a facebook fanpage in March and have almost 6,000 “fans”. For the links that I track I can see about 15% are sourced from Facebook. I do use a the twitter hash tag #readthisbook I did not invent it but I’m the biggest user of it. You can also do a twitter search on “aalbc” and see that I’ve been using that platform as well. So far the impact of all social media combined as not exceeded the results of my eNewsletter. Also other pre-social media activities (like this discussion board are still effective). However all-in I’m reaching a larger audience and can do so more quickly with social media. However social media and old school promotional tactics will not increase discussion board participation, compelling conversation will do this. Thumper’s absence has hurt (Thumper is a real person, and not Troy Johnson). His passion and style of talking about books was a big draw. I miss his contributions, but his contributions here were voluntary, so he’ll participate when and if he can. In reality, however, the Culture board was always a biggest draw in terms or readers, and contributions. I created the culture board because people were often talking about non-book related issue on the Book board (Thumper’s Corner). The absence of some of the other regular contributors hurt as much. -------------- Cynique, I hear you reading the user interface, but I find it much easier, but I can see where you might not see it that way. I like the way I can see very easy when and who made the last post. I can tack conversations that I care about and ignore the others. Plus the administration is completely hands off – the other boards was a management nightmare. The application had not been upgraded in years and was really showing it’s age. The social media integration here, thought rarely used for anything other than logins, is a big plus. But if you are having any difficulty Cynique I cant tell based upon the quality and frequency of your posts. I really enjoy your musings, the video retrospectives, occasional book reviews and not to mention your regular dressing down of Chris. Cynique next time you muse press the little facebook icon, maybe some of your facebook friends will come by read you post and potentially contribute. -------------- At the end of the day, the board will thrive, languish or die based, not based upon three things; (1) visitors/lurkers (2) contributors/posters and (3) completing interactions/conversations. You can survive with two of the above or even one for a while but you need to have all three to thrive.

Cool! There is a nice variety of creative entries so far. Voting starts next month. Good luck!

Hey Carey thanks for the comments. Basically I have figure out a away to carve out the resources to do just what you suggest. I'm working on it. 10 replies against 150,000 readers or a 0.007% reaction rate (my term) is extremely low participation. This board (the stats are public) generates reaction rates several orders of magnitude higher. It would be interesting to know how long each of those "readers" spend on the website. Are they actually reading the posts? Or just hitting the site and turning right around. If they were truly interested in the posts I have to believe they'd get at least 100 responses and a lot of buzz through social networks. Shoot, a bullshit post by a John Doe on facebook can generate 10 responses. What is the URL of that discussion board? We also don't get 150K daily readers -- those are great numbers. In their case, if they are really getting that many readers a day they can generate revenue to compensate the moderators (or staff posters) and the reaction rate does not matter. In my case, I would defintely trade off traffic (revenue) for a more lively board (higher reaction rate). It would be more fun for me, the posters and lurkers.

"tried to interpret (fill in the blank) distress through the filter of her own experiences" --- Exactly Cynique! I rarely watch Oprah, but this ALWAYS irks me. Sometime Oprah will talk more than the guest, interrupting speaking for them. This is working fantastically well for her, so what do I know... Humm, I thought it was common knowledge that Tyler was gay? Again, what do I know. While I can sympathize with Perry, I won't be shedding any tears. He could have all those problem and be an unemployed janitor wasting away in obscurity. He has the financial resources to get help and pursue he dreams, I believe he'll do that.

"...pulse on the gritty street of our big cities." That is cute breathebooks. There was one person ahead of me when I votes this time around. When Barack was on the ticket there were perhaps hundreds of eager and patient voters ahead of me. Barack needed the votes during the midterm election just as much; but he failed to inspire the Black electorate. This was not just in the underbelly of our urban ghettos but in suburban enclaves and bucolic countrysides as well. While we agree that it one prerogative to vote any way they see fit. You have to agree that voting without considering the candidate's experience and qualifications could lead to disappointment when that missing experience becomes evident. Do YOU honestly feel think Barack was "vastly" superior to Hillary Clinton?

To Enter Visit: http://aalbc.it/bestbooktrailer2010 Instructions Submit Your Video Your video must be one that promotes a book Your video may be submitted from Youtube, Facebook or uploaded directly from your PCOnly the author or author's representative (publicist, film maker, etc.) may submit a video for considerationIdeally videos should be less than 5 minutes. Videos longer than 10 minutes will not be considered and will be deleted. The Process Videos can be submitted until December 15, 2010Voting for the finalists will run from December 16, 2010 until January 14, 2011 5 to 10 finalists will be selected based upon the number of votes cast by January 14, 2011 Votes can be cast for up to 5 videosThe judges will select he top 3 videos from the final 5 to 10 finalists.The Prizes Grand Prize Winning video will be embedded on AALBC.com for 3 months (January 17 until April 17, 2011)2nd Place video embedded on AALBC.com for 2 months (January 17 until March 17, 2011) 3rd Place video embedded on AALBC.com for 1 month (January 17 until February 17, 2011) Winning Videos will be promoted via AALBC.com's social networkAll winning authors will have AALBC.com Author Profiles created.If the winning author already has an AALBC.com author profile they will be entitled to a 50% discount on an AALBC.com service (excluding the book review and Power Campaign)

D.T. you may want to check out the AALBC.com Book Trailer awards:http://aalbc.it/bestbooktrailer2010

Chris an author or poet (who writes or performs for profit) and does not have a web presence is a non-entity. It is like not having not having a sign on your store. Get with the program Brother!

@breathebooks, your link supporting your assertion that Barack "supported HBCUs" indicated that he merely renewed an initiative started by the Carter administration and supported by the Bush administration. While I guess that is a good thing it is a pretty weak indication of how Pres. Obama is making a difference. I don't know how many people you spend time around compared to myself (I would however suspect I have you bet), but don't hear too many people talking about how inspired they are by Barack nowadays. breathebooks, do you really believe Black folks voted on Barack because of his platform. Black people spilled out in great numbers because it was an opportunity to put a Black man in the white house. Again, out dismal turnout at the polls during this past midterm election is a reflection of this. Breathebooks are you saying that Barack could not find 5 Black people brighter and more experienced to put on his cabinet than the ones there? Indeed Barack himself is not the brightest, most experienced person to hold the job as president. It might sound like hyperbole, but more Black people are murdered, incarcerated, having children out of wedlock, undereducated or untrained meaningful work that any period you mentioned. @Chris the democrats did not oppose Barack out the box what are you talking about?! Needless to say the Republicans were always against him.

I see most of the online services I check IMDB and Rottentomatoes rated the movie poorly. While the film took in approx $20MM this weekend I suspect that it will fall off a great deal as a result of the reviews and the fact most of the people anxious to see it have done so. There was a humorous review in the Washington post: "For black men who have considered homicide after watching another Tyler Perry movie" Cynique what true confession, worth repeating, did Tyler reveal on Oprah?

Interesting review. I had to look up the word "defenestration". Who knew there was a word for that - and why would anyone use it in everyday prose? Two stars from a white male reviewer. If I apply the standard conversion I get: Zero stars from the Black male perspective Four stars from the Black Woman's perspective I'm sure the film will do poorly, relative to the success of Tyler's other flicks. While white folks will have ample amounts of Black dysfunction upon which to feast they will not flock to the theater in large enough numbers to boost the film. Black men will not go to the film, unless the are trying to score points (or just score period) with the woman they are rolling with. Black women will probably not support the film as much either -- it is dark and depressing subject matter. I suspect many sistaz will opt for something a little lighter given the increasing depression stuff real life is churning out nowadays. We'll see what the weekend box office tells us. I will see the film, but I'll wait for it to come on netflix of itunes. The one good thing about the flick is, based upon my web stats, has renewed interest in Ntozake Shange's work.