Help A Brother Out......My Thinking Patterns and Perspectives of the World

[Pioneer1]

My constant disagreements and even arguments with Cynique, Delano, frankster, and even Troy on occasion as well as a few others over the years has got me thinking about what the problem could be.
While not knowing what's EXACTLY in other people's heads, I'm certain that they are SINCERE in their opinions and assertions...just as I tend to be with mine.

As many of you can tell, I DO like debating from time to time....lol...but actually I'd rather agree with and have my ideas supported MOST of the time rather than constantly having to defend them.
I'd rather save my debating and arguing for the racist Caucasians and dysfunctional Black people.

However unlike a lot of argumentative people, I DO realize that "everybody" can't be wrong....lol.

What I've observed over the years is if a person constantly finds themselves in disagreement with MOST people in  given environment there are reasons for this.
When you find PATTERNS of a certain thing, that tells you it's not random but usually has clearly identifiable causes.

Most of the time (but not all) when someone is constantly disagreeing with everybody, either:

a) They're trolling and just being disagreeable to stir up emotions and start discord.
or
b) Their thinking pattern is either "off" or not "normal" OR healthy but just "wired differently" than the majority of people for some reason and this affects their perspective and how they see things.

Well I can tell you for a fact, I'm not trolling.   
Infact, I've been accused by both Cynique and Delano on MORE than one occasion of trying to "gather a following" of supporters behind me to be the next major Black leader....LOL
So my thinking pattern is obviously different in many cases.

Here's a few facts:

1. I was born and raised in the United State in a majority Black city and saw  some of the same things many of you have seen growing up.
2. I have never been diagnosed with any mental illness nor put on any psychiatric medication that often affects one's thinking.
3. I have never used any hard drugs like cocaine or heroin to affect my brain and thinking abilities.

4. I'm over 50 years of age so I made it in this world so far with my line of thinking while a lot of "popular" people didn't even make it pass 20 years old.

So the question is, why is my thinking pattern and the way I see the world so different than a lot of people?
Why do I often meet with more DISagreement than agreement on subjects I think should be clear cut and dry?


@Cynique and @Delano   Both of you are WELCOMED to chime in if you like!

Infact, I encourage it!

Let us put the sour grapes to the side for a moment as I welcome CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

Infact, ANYBODY is welcomed to chime in if they like....I just mention those two because they are the ones I tend to disagree with the most.

[Delano]

@Pioneer1 I have no beef or grudge with you. I am no longer in the debating phase. I can't speak for Cynique or anyone else. I think abstractly and in concepts you think more  concretely and in the practical. 

Disagreement is not the same as dislike at least it isn't for me.

Your question shows self reflection. It is a question based on your experiences but the answer is not in your experience. Or rather the method of answering the question or finding a solution involves thinking in a way that is different.

 

13 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

So the question is, why is my thinking pattern and the way I see the world so different than a lot of people?
Why do I often meet with more DISagreement than agreement on subjects I think should be clear cut and dry?

The first question is that your thinking is a product of you experiences and your internal states and personality. There isn't another person that is like you on the planet. This is true for everyone.

The second question is is no longer a question if my response to your first question is true. The answer is in the question. You have already decided your answer is clear cut and dry. Most people believe they are right. In my experience people don't generally think they are wrong. You style is discussion is a bit combative. So you have already decided before the discussion that you are right. Then you aren't really having a discussion. 

Perhaps people may need to think they are right. Otherwise life could be overwhelming. It is better to have a false sense of security that a real existential dread of the future.

Let me know if any of that isn't clear

You have asked the most important question a person can ask themselves. Since it leads to a more objective sense of your self.

[Pioneer1]

Delano

 

Thanks for responding!

Ofcourse disagreeing with people aren't the same as disliking them, but if you're at a job or in a class where you're constantly disagreeing with the employees or classmates on MOST subjects, you're clearly not going to be their BFF...lol.

In real life, I've observed that people usually don't disagree...especially constantly....with people they like.

Infact, most of the time when you're around someone you like or love you'll PUT UP with shit you ordinarily wouldn't and ignore their bad characteristics...lol.

 

But yeah....

I do recognize I tend to get defensive and even combative on some subjects.

Not sure how this looks to others, but to me....it's only logical to DEFEND your assertions once you make them.

 

 

 

 

 Or rather the method of answering the question or finding a solution involves thinking in a way that is different.

 

Profound statement in which I'm inclined to agree with!

 

In order to find a solution to a problem, sometimes you HAVE to think outside the box.
And sometimes the person IN the box can't do this.
They have to seek answers from those who ARE outside of the box.

 

How many times have we looked for a solution for a problem for days or even weeks, thinking that things were almost hopeless....only for someone ELSE to come up with the solution that was rather simple and standing right infront of us.

 

 

 

 

The second question is is no longer a question if my response to your first question is true. The answer is in the question. You have already decided your answer is clear cut and dry. Most people believe they are right. In my experience people don't generally think they are wrong. You style is discussion is a bit combative. So you have already decided before the discussion that you are right. Then you aren't really having a discussion. 

 

Oh, so if I understand you correctly....
My BELIEF that my opinion or perspective on a particular subject is CUT AND DRY with no valid alternative perspective -is the problem in and of itself?

Believing that no other opinion is valid and my defense of this position fuels the conflict?

 

 

 

 

Perhaps people may need to think they are right. Otherwise life could be overwhelming. It is better to have a false sense of security that a real existential dread of the future.

 

Interesting.....

I do love being "right", even if I'm not right, lol.
I love the FEELING I get from thinking I'm right.

.....if any of that makes sense.

 

I understand that there are some people....most?....who perhaps don't care whether they are considered right or not by others.
 

[Delano]

8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

In real life, I've observed that people usually don't disagree...especially constantly....with people they like.

I had a friend who would purposely take the opposite position. He respected  my intellect. So it was more of a contest than combat.

 

8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Thanks for responding!

My pleasure.

 

8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

In order to find a solution to a problem, sometimes you HAVE to think outside the box.

Yes
And sometimes the person IN the box can't do this.

Also true
They have to seek answers from those who ARE outside of the box.

Which you have done

8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

My BELIEF that my opinion or perspective on a particular subject is CUT AND DRY with no valid alternative perspective -is the problem in and of itself?

Believing that no other opinion is valid and my defense of this position fuels the conflict?

Say this out loud and hear how it sounds

 

8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I do love being "right", even if I'm not right, lol.
I love the FEELING I get from thinking I'm right.

.....if any of that makes sense.

I like to know stuff and figure things out. I have had enough experiences thinking I was right and I was not. I also had the experince of getting what I wanted ad it turned out not good. I have also had losses that turned out to be beneficial. No I have no idea. I can only know the value at the end of my life. I think a lot and I at times think about my thinking. So I am les concerned with others opinions. Unless they are flattering, those I enjoy

I forget which philosopher said know thyself. Philosphy is good for thinking out of the box. Although it was created by the Devil (insert the proper emoji)

[frankster]

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

My constant disagreements and even arguments with Cynique, Delano, frankster, and even Troy on occasion as well as a few others over the years has got me thinking about what the problem could be.
While not knowing what's EXACTLY in other people's heads, I'm certain that they are SINCERE in their opinions and assertions...just as I tend to be with mine.

Disagreements are healthy so long as Honesty and Respect abides......Growth Happens

 

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

As many of you can tell, I DO like debating from time to time....lol...but actually I'd rather agree with and have my ideas supported MOST of the time rather than constantly having to defend them.

Debating is fun....support for ideas we hold is Satisfying -  which is fleeting

 

 

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'd rather save my debating and arguing for the racist Caucasians and dysfunctional Black people.

 

I can tell you this about debating with racist....they tend to be full of insults of racial kind and personal attacks rarely anything substantial, meaningful or factual.

After that they change their name and come at you again with the same thing from a different angle trying to ensnare you with your own words.

 

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

However unlike a lot of argumentative people, I DO realize that "everybody" can't be wrong....lol

Nobody is truly wrong....its just where they are on the learning curve - we learn more  from our mistakes than our successes.

 

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

What I've observed over the years is if a person constantly finds themselves in disagreement with MOST people in  given environment there are reasons for this.
When you find PATTERNS of a certain thing, that tells you it's not random but usually has clearly identifiable causes.

True

 

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Most of the time (but not all) when someone is constantly disagreeing with everybody, either:

a) They're trolling and just being disagreeable to stir up emotions and start discord.
or
b) Their thinking pattern is either "off" or not "normal" OR healthy but just "wired differently" than the majority of people for some reason and this affects their perspective and how they see things.

You are a little bit of both i suspect.

 

 

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Well I can tell you for a fact, I'm not trolling.   
Infact, I've been accused by both Cynique and Delano on MORE than one occasion of trying to "gather a following" of supporters behind me to be the next major Black leader....LOL
So my thinking pattern is obviously different in many cases.

I be li eve.

 

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Here's a few facts:

1. I was born and raised in the United State in a majority Black city and saw  some of the same things many of you have seen growing up.
2. I have never been diagnosed with any mental illness nor put on any psychiatric medication that often affects one's thinking.
3. I have never used any hard drugs like cocaine or heroin to affect my brain and thinking abilities.

4. I'm over 50 years of age so I made it in this world so far with my line of thinking while a lot of "popular" people didn't even make it pass 20 years old.

Sounds like a typical life in  the West

 

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

So the question is, why is my thinking pattern and the way I see the world so different than a lot of people?
Why do I often meet with more DISagreement than agreement on subjects I think should be clear cut and dry?

Our life paths and experiences are different.

 

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

@Cynique and @Delano   Both of you are WELCOMED to chime in if you like!

Infact, I encourage it!

Let us put the sour grapes to the side for a moment as I welcome CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

Infact, ANYBODY is welcomed to chime in if they like....I just mention those two because they are the ones I tend to disagree with the most.

You are a worthy opponent....

[ProfD]

Brotha @Pioneer1, don't know what inspired this moment of introspection but it's a good thing to do sometimes. To verbalize it takes courage.

 

Your style of dialog/discussion is needed and valued here. As brotha Del mentioned, everyone is unique.

 

I certainly appreciate everyone's contribution to this discussion forum. We can agree to disagree and still be cool like family. 

 

Continue to be yourself mayne. As Steve Arrington sang, "nobody  can be you but you....". Dr. Dre said..."keep their heads ringing". 

[Pioneer1]

Delano

I had a friend who would purposely take the opposite position. He respected  my intellect. So it was more of a contest than combat.

 

I guess it all depends on the person you're debating.

Some people don't have the emotional maturity or stability to handle their beliefs being challenged.

You meet certain people from other nations like the Middle East and India....they are some very nice people until their cultural or religious beliefs are merely QUESTIONED. 
Then many of them will go off.

 

 

 

 

frankster

 

 

Disagreements are healthy so long as Honesty and Respect abides......Growth Happens

 

I agree
My religious beliefs were changed through strong disagreement and argument with those who knew more and didn't play games with me.
I came with my books and scripture and my opponent who was an older dude schooled me on my own book and introduced me to more scriptures I hadn't heard of.
I had no argument left so I HAD to agree with him and showed up at his temple a few days later.

 

As much as I like to debate, I don't let it get in the way of accepting CLEAR evidence and truth.

 

 

 

I can tell you this about debating with racist....they tend to be full of insults of racial kind and personal attacks rarely anything substantial, meaningful or factual.

After that they change their name and come at you again with the same thing from a different angle trying to ensnare you with your own words.

Which is why I generally don't debate racists UNLESS there's something to be gained by it.

I'll let you in on a little secret......
When I debate racists and dysfunctional Black people, if you ever notice the circumstances I usually don't do it UNLESS there's an audience present.

 

Why?

 

Because I  do it to win the AUDIENCE over...not them.
Well....if it's a dysfunctional Black man or woman...I'll often try, but I won't waste too much time on them either.
I do it to SHOW OFF my debating skills and show other Black people how to counter the points of a racist or some dysfunctional nigga who tries to justify their foolishness.

I won't lie, when I was younger I used discussing books, history, religion, and politics as a way to get coochie from females...lol.
I wasn't a thug or a gangster, I had to find MY niche...lol.
I still use this as a way of impressing other Black folks.
Although I realize that many aren't impressed by great talking points over religion and history, but some are.

 

 

 

You are a little bit of both i suspect.

 

LOL...I guess it depends on your definition of a "troll".

 

 

 

 

 

Sounds like a typical life in  the West

 

Hmmm.......
A lot of people make it over 50.
However how many U.S. citizens have never been diagnosed with mental illnesses or put on any drugs.
Half...or fewer?

Most people definitely haven't had the opportunity to grow up in a nearly all Black major city like Detroit.

I call it a privilege because our mayor Coleman Young protected us and SHIELDED us from a lot of the racism other Black folks were experiencing in other parts of the West.
I didn't understand why NWA and many other rappers hated the police so much because where I grew up....most of the police were Black, lol.

 

 

 

 

 

ProfD

 

Thanks for the words of encouragement!

Being human beings, we all have our moments where we wonder...WTF???

 

I'll be honest, what really got me wondering was the experience I mentioned in another thread about how the Black folks on my job didn't want to believe that people in an office somewhere could control and sabotage the machines they were working on.

Of the HUNDREDS of Black folks working there....why was me and 2 other people the ONLY ones who thought this could even be a possibility?

Of the hundreds of Black folks working there, HALF of them smoked weed and most of them drink, and many of them smoke crack and do heroin.

It's not just there, I noticed that on a lot of the jobs I've been on.

 

When it comes to dysfunction and fucked up behavior you have PLENTY of Black unity where dozens of Black folks can find agreement with eachother.
They'll hang out and stick together -to smoke dope and engage in criminal behavior.

But when a GOOD brother or sister says lets unite to do something positive or investigate a racist incident and ascertain some benefit for ourselves -too often they get isolated.

Perhaps it's a bit of jealousy....but it's often emotionally painful to see who I consider the "wrong" Black folks getting the wealth and popularity and approval from the community so much.

 

[Troy]

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

....but it's often emotionally painful to see who I consider the "wrong" Black folks getting the wealth and popularity and approval from the community so much.

 

When you don't control anything thing this is what happens. The Black people who should have our collective attention are those who were targeted by the Conitelpro. You can be certain these brother and sisters were the "right" Black folks.

 

For example, one minute Black Lives Matter, matters and the next minute it doesn't. It always ends up depending more upon market forces and the whims of the media rather than a positive impact on our people.

 

I like to debate, but in the real world I don't get to do it very much.  In the last few years, I've spent most of my free time with women and none of them like to debate -- at least not with me.  They usually take it personally, shut down, or simply avoid the activity.

 

I had a female friend years ago who used to like to debate and we'd sometime argue, but she never took it personally or too seriously to end our friendship.   She used to say I was "incorrigible." I had to look up the word when she first called me that   She was a natural fighter, a female warrior.

 

Online however, I'm more likely to challenge another's ideas, that I would in person. 

 

On 7/8/2023 at 8:47 AM, Pioneer1 said:

I'd rather save my debating and arguing for the racist Caucasians and dysfunctional Black people.

 

I think debating racists or dysfunctional Black people is largely a waste of time.  These people are incorrigible.  Back when @frankster debated the last racist who posted here, I found that valuable, not because I though the racist would change, but because the way he replied to each point would be valuable to those really interested in learning to understand our predicament.

 

@Pioneer1 one thing I have noticed is that you do not seem to be willing to change your position -- I don't recall seeing it happen.  When presented with compelling evidence you disparage it in one way or another, calling it the white man's science or something like that...

 

On 7/8/2023 at 8:47 AM, Pioneer1 said:

I've been accused by both Cynique and Delano on MORE than one occasion of trying to "gather a following" of supporters behind me to be the next major Black leader

 

 

Also, I would not take everything said here seriously.  I don't recall the context of these statements, but you know people tease, say things for effect, exaggerate, and occasionally make ad hominem comments (not me of course

 

 

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

 

When you don't control anything thing this is what happens. 

 

FACTS!!!!

Infact, this was a POWERFUL point that actually was in the back of my mind through out last week over some different issues in the real world.

It goes right along with the old saying that when you give powerless people some power, many of them will abuse it because they aren't used to having it.

 

 

 

I like to debate, but in the real world I don't get to do it very much.  In the last few years, I've spent most of my free time with women and none of them like to debate -- at least not with me.  They usually take it personally, shut down, or simply avoid the activity.

 

What I've observed with women is that they like to do more "arguing" than debating.
In other words, instead of discussing our differences LOGICALLY...they'll come with a lot of EMOTIONALISM and "reading into" my words and behavior rather than dealing with the facts.

For example, I got into an argument with a lady I was seeing a few weeks ago because she didn't like how me and her pregnant friend were "talking" to eachother at an event...lol.

She was there in our presence for the ENTIRE brief (less than 10 minutes) conversation...but accused me of flirting with her and said that was the "lowest of the low".
And then fell out with her friends accusing HER of trying to "seduce" me instead of trying to get back with her baby's father whom I guess they are having some relationship troubles with and separated from eachother.

Foolishness on top of foolishness.

If I'm not sexually interested in a woman...I'll debate with her all day long for as long as she wants to debate with me.
But if I'm interested or want to keep her frienship...I'll be very careful when I disagree with them.

 

 

Totally besides the subject but another thing about women that I had to learn but often keep forgetting is....

They don't think like men.
A beautiful woman is pretty much attractive UNLESS she does something so vulgar or heinous to piss you off that you no longer find her attractive even if she looks good.
But with women.....
What you say or do can often turn the switch on and off for whether they find you attractive or not.
I still find this rather hard to believe, but based on my observations....it seems to be true.

 

 

 

 

Online however, I'm more likely to challenge another's ideas, that I would in person. 

 

Lol, because it's usually safer.

 

 

 

I think debating racists or dysfunctional Black people is largely a waste of time.  These people are incorrigible.

Well like I said earlier, when I DO do it...it's not for them per se but for an audience who may be reading or listening.
If I want to provide entertainment or impress a certain select group of people like influential Black folks or young Black folks or foreign Black folks who think AfroAmericans are slow and dull, or women in general who may find a man who knows verbal Kung Fu attractive LOL, I will do it to impress THEM.
Not the racist or silly negro.

 

 

 

 

 

@Pioneer1 one thing I have noticed is that you do not seem to be willing to change your position -- I don't recall seeing it happen.  When presented with compelling evidence you disparage it in one way or another, calling it the white man's science or something like that...

 

There's a difference between what I call real Science and "White folks science".

REAL Science is things that can be easily proven like math, chemistry, technology....that anyone of any race can experiment and test for themselves to witness the results and confirm.

 

What I call "White man's science" are usually THEORIES that can't be proven but you have to just "believe" and "agree" with them because the majority of White folks have gotten together establish it as "scientific".
Examples include the Theory of Evolution, the Big Bang theory, etc.
Things they can't possibly "know" or prove but insist on the rest of humanity just accepting it as absolute fact anyway.

[Cynique]

As usual, pioneer sets up the question, then supplies the answers, in this case  putting Del and me on the defensive with the expectation  that we justify  our uncivil behavior toward him.  Like i don't have better things to reflect on in the twilight of my years. Nor do i have any recollection  of ever accusing him of trying to gather a following of supporters behind him to be the next major Black leader. The closest thing along those lines  i ever recall saying is that he played to the lurkers on this site whom he imagined were cheering him on.  Whatever.  

 

Hi Everybody!

Wish I had some interesting input to contribute the forum, but.... i don't.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pioneer1]

5 hours ago, Cynique said:

 

Hi Everybody!

Wish I had some interesting input to contribute the forum, but.... i don't. 

 

We know.
We're used to that by now....lol

But thanks for your response anyway!  

[Delano]

I

16 hours ago, Cynique said:

in this case  putting Del and me on the defensive with the expectation  that we justify  our uncivil behavior toward him.

I don't feel the need to justify my position or behaviour.

 

16 hours ago, Cynique said:

Like i don't have better things to reflect on in the twilight of my years.

Apparently in that moment I didn't have something better to do, since I responded. I thought it was an interesting question. About  years ago in the Brooklyn Moon cafe I was having a tea. The following thought popped into my head, "Why do you think that you are right?" I realised we generally think we are right until experience or revelations dispel this ongoing illusion. Recently I was ruminating on why this seems to be the case. Why most people seem to resistance to obvious truths. Perhaps because our life an open book we need an internal narrative, oherwise we would be crushed by nihilism or lack of meaning.

So it is more practical although not beneficial to have a false sense of justification. Another group that I member of had the follow response. Nearly every said that if they didn't have delusions the wouldn't have hope. Which was a striking comments since I felt that I was shedding delusions. Simultaneously I was also feeling a lack of hope, both personally and on a lager scale.

 

In closing in a strange way I feel an affinity to Pioneer moment's of introspection and subsequent revelations. This is the second one I recall.

As an aside most of the time when I respond it isn't so much to convince but rather to solve a conundrum that the post presents. Sometimes my response is not solely for the querent. I used to love a good argument. Now I prefer finding illuminating patterns. 

@Cynique I posted a clip that explains my time markers. I am going deeper into the rabbit hole. With patterns and numbers. Since the beginning of this year I felt that July and August would be important month for me. Especially July  12 - 26. It has been an interesting period and I am seeing some changes. Time markers it is a set of symbols. Each symbol is an idea and a number. The number component is non decimal so I have been thinking in this symbol set and non base 10. So anything that can be named or quantified has additional meaning. So I am getting answers, to questions I haven't asked. I don't know if it is related but I have also been able to manifest a few things.

Are you still phase shifting. What was weird or confronting probably seems common place and comfortable.

 

 

 

Your thinking patterns are your perspective. 

 

 

WHAT IS METATHINKING?

Metathinking enables complex thinking skills. It involves the practice of reflecting on one’s own thoughts. When we recognise patterns in our thinking, we can notice what might be missing from our thinking and, from there transform our thinking and become more fluid, complete and creative thinkers.

https://metathinking.org/

[Pioneer1]

 Del....you know what.
You're alright with me!

But Cynique on the other hand.............

 

[Delano]

6 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Del....you know what.
You're alright with me!

More importantly I am all right with me.

[Pioneer1]

18 minutes ago, Delano said:

More importantly I am all right with me.

Hey.......that too!

[Cynique]

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 Del....you know what.
You're alright with me!

But Cynique on the other hand.............

 

@Pioneer1   i can't believe that even someone as ego centric as you would think that i would give a damn about not being alright with you.   Reading that that announcement reassured me that I'm doing something right. 

 

1 hour ago, Delano said:

More importantly I am all right with me.

@Delano"More importantly"  is true when it comes to being all right with yourself. It's not like you need pioneer's validation.   

 

I am done with engaging in anything that robs me of the energy it takes to just  be. Existing has become synonymous with tranquility, reminiscence with time travel. I'm also appreciating how now by simply closing my eyes, a different world. opens up  wherein my environment is a garden with  a path leading to somethings so far away that  i can't discern where it ends  it's like I'm having a preview of the next world, - like i'm on a psychedelic trip. A very magical and spiritual experience.

 

As, usual, your Time-marker System  boggles my mind.  

[Delano]

@Cynique it boggles my mind as well thay i have found or developed it.

 

I am glad to hear you are enjoying your trip.  I am on a journey as well it is exhilarating. 

I posted a clip and tagged you in the time markers thread.

[ProfD]

14 hours ago, Cynique said:

I am done with engaging in anything that robs me of the energy it takes to just  be.

Well, it should not cost too much of your energy to check in on the peanut gallery here when taking a break from psychedelic trips in the magic garden.

[Delano]

On 7/24/2023 at 10:06 AM, Cynique said:

I'm also appreciating how now by simply closing my eyes, a different world. opens up  wherein my environment is a garden with  a path leading to somethings so far away that  i can't discern where it ends  

I feel that there are many different worlds. Some of which you can chose to enter , some you are born into and others you are invited to become a member. How you perceive these worlds is dependent on your on thoughts, feelings, personality and other things. Some worlds or groups that exclude you or unknown to you. So any opinions you have of those worlds is very subjective and probably but not accurate.

 

Socioeconomic class is probably the easiest on to be invited to become a member. Provided you display the values and or the objects associated with that class.

 

Perhaps people are more tribal than than social. You may be closer to your tribe than your class or even race. 

 

I think we join or are admitted to groups that reflect our values, beliefs or other quality. The individual may find themselves at odds with their group's values or positions. If the person is highly valued, charismatic, or persuasive they can have an effect on the group and make it change. Or at least except that person or persons difference. If not you accept the group's values. You leave if there's a significant disparity. Or stay yet not accept all of the group's values.

 

I don't think gender borders are easily crossed. There is the biological and social definitions. However I am speaking as a person that has crossed genders bit had crossed gender roles. Or rather gender stereotypes.

 

 

 

Which is long winded way of saying your various memberships are a large factor in personal and social misunderstandings.