AI is a Threat to Cultural Cohesion

[Troy]

I'm beginning to see more of these AI generated sales pitches (see below).  The use of the word "delved" in the first sentence is a tell.  The service itself is AI driven. 

 

AI is already being touted as tool one can use to craft and read unique bedtime story to your kid. 

 

What happens to a culture when there are no shared stories -- when all the stories are unique to the individual? 

 

Well, we already know; the AI powered bots on social media give people completely different world views, and we losing cultural cohesion as a result.

 

---------

Hi Troy,

 

As I delved into the fascinating world of African American literature and book festivals, I was struck by your dedication to promoting and celebrating Black writers and publishers. Your work on publishing book reviews, author interviews, and sharing information about black-owned bookstores resonated deeply with me. It's remarkable to see how your efforts have helped to amplify the voices of Black writers and publishers.

 

I was particularly intrigued by your article "Supporting Independent Black Publishers and Presses" and how it highlights the importance of Black readers supporting Black presses and publishers. As someone who has spent years working in the publishing industry, I appreciate the significance of this initiative.

 

As we kick off the new quarter, I'd like to explore how [company name]'s AI-powered sales platform can support your mission. Our platform utilizes AI agents to enhance customer engagement through personalized emails, ensuring efficient delivery and interactive ad decks. I'd love to discuss how our services can help streamline your operations and drive revenue growth.

 

Let's initiate a chat to explore how [company name] can help amplify your impact. [Attachment] AALBCcom material.

 

_____________________
[name of contact]
Head of AI Sales

[ProfD]

Social media is already conditioning people to accept a reality with less real world contact and interaction. 

 

AI will eventually do all non-physical work that humans find too tedious or time consuming. 

 

I'm curious to see if people will become more productive and take better care of each other when they have more time on their hands. 

 

I don't believe work as a time sink makes people better.  However, working does provide a structured outlet of socialization which is a critical aspect of our existence as human beings.

 

Cultural cohesion will erode among populations that allow social media and AI to decline them. 

 

Moving to Africa becomes more attractive as I continue to observe the world around me.

[Troy]

Well plenty of people are moving to the continent. But I not sure we’ll escape the influence of AI fueled social media anywhere electricity is available. 

[ProfD]

9 hours ago, Troy said:

Well plenty of people are moving to the continent. But I not sure we’ll escape the influence of AI fueled social media anywhere electricity is available. 

Sure.  AI fueled social media will be a problem for those who consume it anywhere on the planet.   

 

Thankfully, I'm too old for social media to have an impact on my life in one way or another.   So, i really don't have anything to worry about.

 

Still, I don't believe the cultures that exist on the continent of Africa will be eroded by AI-driven social media to the extent that it could happen here in America.

[Delano]

I don't think AI is as promising as it is being touted. An Astrologer has been using it and while he is impressed with it. I don't see how someone giving you answers will make you better. I feel that asking questions and figuring it out leads to mastery. 

[Troy]

On 6/14/2024 at 9:56 AM, ProfD said:

Thankfully, I'm too old for social media to have an impact on my life in one way or another. 

 The impacts on those around you is what will matter.

 

19 hours ago, Delano said:

I don't see how someone giving you answers will make you better.

No, It won’t lead to mastery. It will do just the opposite.  Anyone can have AI create a chart and interpret it. Ultimately no human will be able to or need to do it.

[aka Contrarian]

 

META, aka FaceBook now has  a personal  individual  AI feature available and accessible to its posters. Out of curiosity, I started fooling around with it, mostly just asking questions, and it has now surpassed Google as a source of information for me.  It gives very thorough, detailed responses to my questions and even remarks about how interesting my queries are! It calls itself my "personal assistant" but, as a cross betwern GOOGLE and Wikipedia, it's more like having the faculty of a Liberal Arts & Science college at my disposal.  I rarely utilize its office or commercial engines. What I mosyly rely on it for is instant and concise conventional wisdom about history and politics, supernatural phenomena, and scientific data. Recently it introduced me to  the fascinating concept of entrophy. It also clarifies whatever befuddles me in the fields  of literature, philosophy, and psychology, its responses always objective rather than opinionated. It's a little eerie. I can see how a person with a lot of free time could get mesmerized by this robotic researcher whose conversational style personalizes the connection and makes it somewhat different from just reading information.

 Currently, I'm thinking about asking this tin hat Renaissance Man some erotic questions...

Somebody might want to see how AI rewrites this post. 

 

Nighty Night. zzzzz

[Delano]

1 hour ago, Troy said:

Anyone can have AI create a chart and interpret it. Ultimately no human will be able to or need to do it.

No not unless AI develops intuition. There are only a handful of Astrologers that are good at prediction. There are so many factors in a chart there is no rational way to choose the relevant ones

 

1 hour ago, Troy said:

Anyone can have AI create a chart and interpret it. Ultimately no human will be able to or need to do it.

No not unless AI develops intuition. There are only a handful of Astrologers that are good at prediction. There are so many factors in a chart there is no rational way to choose the relevant ones

 

[Troy]

5 hours ago, Delano said:

There are so many factors in a chart there is no rational way to choose the relevant ones

That is where AI is superior no human can evaluate all the factors but an AI can.

 

5 hours ago, Delano said:

not unless AI develops intuition.

What is intuition… really? If AI knows “everything” is intuition necessary?

 

5 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

and it has now surpassed Google as a source of information for me. 

Chat GPT works the same way for me. I use it far more often than a search engine too.

 

The problem is that these AI’s get there intonation from the web—from us. Google has already crippled the web by providing answers right on the search engine results page rather than sending people to websites where the data was obtained. AI will just accelerate this.

 

At some point, there will be no new information introduced to the web because there is no longer a viable business model for websites and AI will learn nothing new.

 

What is the motivation for anyone to volunteer to update Wikipedia when no one goes there anymore, instead using some AI that has copied the information from Wikipedia and presents it to people and a much nicer consumable manner?

[Delano]

10 hours ago, Delano said:

No not unless AI develops intuition. There are only a handful of Astrologers that are good at prediction. There are so many factors in a chart there is no rational way to choose the relevant ones

 

No not unless AI develops intuition. There are only a handful of Astrologers that are good at prediction. There are so many factors in a chart there is no rational way to choose the relevant ones

 

I was having a discussion with a famous Astrologer. Apparently what I do with prediction has never been done .

 

I have a technique where I can describe the quality of specific moments in time. I also have a technique that converts a word into an Astrology chart. I haven't met any Astrologers who can  understand the concept much less replicate it .

 

If you think back on our bet about Trump. The time I mentioned was within a ten days of his impeachment.. I had gotten the date from a comment you had made.

 

So unless I teach my technique it won't be discoverable.

 

After more than two decades of Astrology, I have found that an Astrological chart never repeats.

Try asking AI to create a chart from a word. It won't even understand the question.

[ProfD]

The best part of AI is that it would force users to hold themselves accountable for the outcome.

 

One cannot be disappointed or feel betrayed or blame others if they don't get desired results from AI.

[aka Contrarian]

On 6/16/2024 at 12:38 PM, Delano said:

I was having a discussion with a famous Astrologer. Apparently what I do with prediction has never been done .

 

I have a technique where I can describe the quality of specific moments in time. I also have a technique that converts a word into an Astrology chart. I haven't met any Astrologers who can  understand the concept much less replicate it .

 

@DelanoAs you know, I have always had difficulty wrapping my brain around this time technique you have perfected. I still don't really understand it. Maybe I could grasp it if you would give me an example  of an occasion when I would use and benefit from the information  your methodology reveals. Does it have to do with decision making?

Just some midnight musings in the  heat of the moment...

 

[Delano]

Both clock and words are made up of symbols either letters or numerals. What I have done is give each letter and numeral a meaning. Or rather a set of correspondences. So each word or moment in time has a specific meaning. 

 

I then take the word or numbers then convert them into my system. 

 

The big leap was creating a series of formula that converts words and numbers into a future date.

 

 

[Delano]

@aka Contrarian since it qualifies time it can be used for any activity. As long as you control the start time. Meditation , trips to the doctors or any office. Leaving the house , meeting people, being lucky, clarity, introspection it can be used for many things except gambling.

 

So you tell me what effect you are after give me a two hour window and I'll ind the best time to maximise that activity.

 

You can even pick something that you do routinely and I'll give you the start time. That way you can see if it is noticeably different.

[Troy]

True @Delano.  Once you, or someone else, puts it on the net -- AI has it.  Though I'm not sure what type of vetting AI does as it vacuums up the world wide web.

 

I asked ChatGPT to cast my chart and tell me something about myself: https://chatgpt.com/share/d27def2d-dbea-4012-bb9f-8bfc914c2680

 

I always through I was rising in Cancer, so I don't know if the chart is calculated correctly or if I made a mistake in the past.  I used to use a computer program to cast natal charts.

 

[Delano]

Troy ask AI to create a chart from a word. It can't be done because I have never shown anyone how to do it .

[Delano]

The information is wrong your ascendant can't be 347 which is pisces . It is Gemini. Being born at 9 am is roughly 45 degrees. Assuming sunrise of 6 am. April 8 would be about 18 degree of Aries. 18+45=63 which is 3 Gemini . That's in my head. Your ascendant is actually 18 Gemini 

 I am off by 15 degrees because I didn't use Daylight Saving Time. Every hours is roughly 15 degrees. Although this varies by sign and time of year. 

I have a few steps in converting a word into time. I also have three different sets that I use. Not one of these can be figured out. I did know one Astrologer who had the same idea but he couldn't get it to work. It worked for me because the a gre steps popped into my head.

 

Timing events is notoriously difficult in  Astrology except for me. Although it took me about 7 years to figure it out.

I have a few steps in converting a word into time. I also have three different sets that I use. Not one of these can be figured out. I did know one Astrologer who had the same idea but he couldn't get it to work. It worked for me because the a gre steps popped into my head.

 

Timing events is notoriously difficult in  Astrology except for me. Although it took me about 7 years to figure it out.

[Troy]

Couldn’t a current or future AI also figure out another novel approach @Delano?

 

 

[Delano]

Most of my system came from my subconscious. I haven't met another Astrologer who understands what I do except for one who had a similar idea but couldn't make it work. 

 

So there is no info on the net other than me. What I have posted is a word and then the chart I created . Three aren't any other inputs. In addition I have created three languages or symbol sets that I use to create the chart. There is a time I have developed which also isn't something that is anywhere on the internet. And finally there are formulae O have created which also aren't on the net. So there is no data for anyone to manipulate. Finally the system is a function of how I think books I have read , people I have met, a f thousands of readings I have done over two decades.

 

I don't know how you think AI can figure all of those steps. When it can't calculate your ascendant correctly. Ironically that is a mathematical formula. Doing the calculation in my head I was off by 15 degrees half of one sign. Whereas AI ess wrong by nine signs . No I am not worried about AI. Do you still think it is the magic pill.

[Troy]

6 hours ago, Delano said:

Do you still think it is the magic pill.

From what I’ve seen, yes.

 

But there is potential for great harm too.

 

The choice is up to the massive corporations that control AI and legislators who should be providing some constraints.

[Delano]

Yeah it can't get a straight forward calculation correct. I doubt it will develop intuition. Which is what makes a reader good 

 

[Troy]

Again, what is intuition really? How does it work?  Isit really very different than what an AI is, or can be, capable of?

 

I’ve given chat GPT thousands of prompts and it can get things obviously wrong. But sometimes it answers questions better than what I’ve asked, seemingly intuiting what I meant to ask.

[Delano]

Intuition is not the same as computation. It is about a feeling. Everyone can think about a problem but answering intuitive is a different thing altogether. Like love it is irrational, yet it adds colour to life 

[ProfD]

10 hours ago, Troy said:

Again, what is intuition really? How does it work?  Isit really very different than what an AI is, or can be, capable of?

Intuition, having the ability to take action or make decisions based on feeling instead of reasoning is a part of what makes us human beings. 

 

IMO, AI will not make decisions based on a hunch or thinking outside the box (algorithm).  Everything AI outputs will require human input. 

 

IOW, humans aren't going to wake up and AI has already taken care of things that were dreamed about. 

 

 

 

[Troy]

13 hours ago, ProfD said:

AI will not make decisions based on a hunch or thinking outside the box (algorithm).

What is a hunch? And forget about algorithms that is a computer programming construct.

 

 Are you familiar with the game Go? Well in a test of AI it made a move the experts thought was a mistake, but it turned out to be a completely novel and in the moment an inexplicable move —a move that beat the best human player on earth.

 

If a human made the same move we’d call it a stroke of genius, intuition, a hunch, any of  the language you guys  like to use to describe human intelligence.
 

AI is capable of the same thing. You are just unwilling to think of AI in human terms (or vice versa).

18 hours ago, Delano said:

Intuition is not the same as computation.

How do you know?

 

18 hours ago, Delano said:

love it is irrational

Is it? Why? 
 

It may be perfectly rational, but the reason and logic may escape you?

[Delano]

3 hours ago, Troy said:

 

 Are you familiar with the game Go? Well in a test of AI it made a move the experts thought was a mistake, but it turned out to be a completely novel and in the moment an inexplicable

AI runs on algorithms. Intuition takes everything you know and your unconscious pops out an answer. So I don't think that can be program. Unless we understand the mind and the unconscious.

[ProfD]

9 hours ago, Troy said:

What is a hunch? And forget about algorithms that is a computer programming construct.

Hard to separate algorithms when AI is the result of computer programming. 

9 hours ago, Troy said:

AI is capable of the same thing. You are just unwilling to think of AI in human terms (or vice versa).

As long as AI requires human input in order to produce an output, I cannot think of it as real intelligence. 

 

No doubt, AI will be a powerful tool that puts humans out of work and/or allows more of  them to sit around doing little or nothing or less work.

 

AI could potentially render humans super lazy and ultimately dull and boring.

[Delano]

Some links about intuition.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/explorations-of-the-mind/202308/intuition-what-it-is-and-how-it-works

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intuition

 

[Troy]

OK I've been sloppy with my terminology in this conversation because I'm trying to relate it to what you guys are writing.  When I read terms like computation and Inputs and output it makes me think you guys are think of AI like a traditional computer program. 

 

@Delano I skipped on Merrian Webster as I know what Intuition means, but I did read the Psychology Today article.  The takeaway for me was that 

 

"Intuition later in life arises from the accumulation of knowledge and experiences that are processed and stored in our brain's neural networks, as well as other cells and tissues in our bodies, allowing us to access this information quickly, often unconsciously."  All humans are born with this and how it works is not understood.

 

This does not help me understand the distinction you are making being our human biology and software on silicon chips.

 

Our persecution of what our bodies are doing are illusory, as are the stories we tell ourselves to explain our intuition.   Of course, any story we conjure up to explain the biology of intuition would seemingly be inappropriate to apply to software on silicon.  I think it can.

 

We are essentially drive by algorithms too and any sufficiently intelligent being (which we are not) can completely explain how intuition works and describe future behavior.  Maybe AI explain our intuition to us one day.

 

I guess the Go example I provided fails your test for an AI developing a novel solution or an example of "intuition."

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Troy said:

I guess the Go example I provided fails your test for an AI developing a novel solution or an example of "intuition."

When I read the Go example, I immediately thought about Chess playing computers.

[Delano]

@Troy intuition is outside of rational thought. I don't no how you can create an effective irrational algorithm.

 

Intuition and the mind are black boxes. How can you right am algor of something that isn't understood.

 

I look at a words or clock time and turn that into a chart. 

 

That can't be copied, because the original is in my mind. I created three different symbol sets to be able to do this. I also sometimes choose one over the other two.

 

So that by itself is a high hurdle. I have formulae that I apply to symbol sets I have created.

 

Sometimes I will have a few charts and I have to decide who go use. I get a feeling. It's not even a thought. 

 

Do you think AI cam be become Clairvoyant, Clairsentient, Claireaudient, Clairalience or Clairgustance

[Delano]

@Troy I have spent spent 25 years reading and studying Tarot and Astrology. So I have an experience which I combine with thinking and intuition. The meanings I associate with symbols is fluid. What makes reading challenging is when contradictory symbols are combined. There is no rule or rational way to choose one or the other. A person can learn to do that but it takes time. I would say that AI can give good Tarot readings. I have gotten or few that were fitting. I think it can also do a reasonably well natal delineation. I know a Horary Astrologer that has created a Horary software application. I haven't used it but I can imagine it works. Since Horary has lots of rules that are amenable to programming.

 

The same is it true for my system. The meanings I ascribe is a function of how I feel. The other thing I have noticed is the following. If I am doing a reading for someone the time has to feel right. I can't tell you why or even name the feeling. So unless feelings can be programmed AI won't get to the next level. Lots of Astrologers think AI is going to revolutionise Astrology.

 

I don't think so because what happens o Astrology is divination and inspiration. Which I don't believe can be coded.

[Troy]

@Delano now you are talking about “divination” and “Clairsentience” things that aren’t even proven that humans are capable of. This is beyond the scope of my argument.

 

But when you talk about  feeling I’d ask you what are feelings? This is no different than the question posed about intuition. Our feelings can largely be explained by our experiences, culture, knowledge, and genetics. These are  things that can be quantified and feed into a LLM. The results are (will be) indistinguishable from what you call feelings.

 

Think about the film Her.

 

 

[Delano]

3 hours ago, Troy said:

experiences, culture, knowledge, and genetics. These are  things that can be quantified and feed into a LLM.

This is where you and I disagree.

[Troy]

1. The genome has been mapped
    
2. Virtually all the world’s knowledge is on the web.
3. People reveal so much of their personal experiences on social media the owners of those platforms know more about the users than the users know about themselves. Plus are behaviors are tracked through out personal devices and other forms of surveillance.
4.  Cultural norms and standards are codified into laws, prescribe by religion and Revealed in our media and entertainment tastes

What is there to disagree about @Delano?

[Delano]

Do a search on "Can we map the unconscious mind"

 

And you will see how important it and intuition are. And how they are difficult to understand how they function.

[ProfD]

As far as we know, scientists have been unable to clone human beings successfully.

 

The Supreme Being won't give up the codes that allow for the creation of life.

 

I believe the same goes for Artificial Intelligence (AI). AI will never be sentient.

 

I'll be impressed with AI if/when solves real problems, for example, coming up with cures for incurable diseases.

[Delano]

This is an excerpt from Psychology Today.

 

The unconscious is the vast sum of operations of the mind that take place below the level of conscious awareness. The conscious mind contains all the thoughts, feelings, cognitions, and memories we acknowledge, while the unconscious consists of deeper mental processes not readily available to the conscious mind.

 

Much learning, especially recognition of complex patterns, takes place outside of conscious awareness. Similarly, many of the elements that go into judgments and decision-making are processed outside of awareness. Intuition, too, is a product of unconscious mental operations, a set of assumptions swiftly assembled from cumulative knowledge and experience. Much of human motivation and interpersonal attraction also take shape beyond conscious awareness.

[Troy]

7 hours ago, Delano said:

Much learning, especially recognition of complex patterns, takes place outside of conscious awareness.

Of this, I’m aware. From personal experience if I encounter a problem that I can’t figure out a solution for I just set it aside and “sleep on it” so to speak and solution appears seemingly out of nowhere.

 

How that works? heck if I know. Just because something is difficult to figure out does not mean it’s unknowable.
 

Similarly a process outside of our conscious awareness does not mean that it cannot be mimicked in software and hardware.

 

I think you guys (Del and ProfD) i’ve put humans on a pedestal as if we’re special throughout the known universe. we’re only a few generations removed from fish…
 

@ProfD the following is a quote about protein folding:

 

”AI FOR GOOD — DeepMind trained AlphaFold on a public database of approximately 170,000 protein structures from a publicly available data bank. It has boosted the high accuracy of AlphaFold to predict the outcome of protein folding in a matter of days, and says it’s now predicted the shapes for 36 percent of human proteins with a high degree of confidence. That’s huge if it means scientists no longer have to go through an exhaustive process to figure out the underlying structures of the proteins they’re trying to study.

We often think of artificial intelligence mostly used to pedestrian ends, like deciding what to show us in our news feeds. But technology like AlphaFold actually lives up to the greater ambition of computers studying huge swathes of data and making predictions that a human never could.”

 

AI really is on the cusp of helping to cure disease.

 

13 hours ago, ProfD said:

scientists have been unable to clone human beings successfully.

 

As far as cloning humans, do you really believe that there is a supreme being that has preventing us from doing it? Seems to me that supreme being Could have prevented us from doing a great many other things. 

 

I would not be surprised if the ability to clone a human is an already technically possible perhaps it even been done — a sheep was cloned 30 years ago! There are of course ethical reasons for not doing it, which may be a reason no one‘s going around boasting about doing it. 
 

I think it is possible for man to create something that is self-aware. At the rate, things have been improving. Some of us may see this happen in our lifetime

[ProfD]

11 hours ago, Troy said:

I think you guys (Del and ProfD) i’ve put humans on a pedestal as if we’re special throughout the known universe. we’re only a few generations removed from fish…

I'm definitely not putting human beings on a pedestal.  Several times I've written that we need to do a much better job of taking care of each other.  We're are fully formed and still flawed creatures.

I've constantly written 

11 hours ago, Troy said:

”

AI FOR GOOD — DeepMind trained AlphaFold on a public database of approximately 170,000 protein structures from a publicly available data bank. It has boosted the high accuracy of AlphaFold to predict the outcome of protein folding in a matter of days...That’s huge if it means scientists no longer have to go through an exhaustive process to figure out the underlying structures of the proteins they’re trying to study.

 

We often think of artificial intelligence mostly used to pedestrian ends, like deciding what to show us in our news feeds. But technology like AlphaFold actually lives up to the greater ambition of computers studying huge swathes of data and making predictions that a human never could.”

 

AI really is on the cusp of helping to cure disease.

Excellent.  Medical research and finding cures is where i will be most impressed with AI.  I'm not interested in AI doing whatever humans are too lazy to do for themselves.

11 hours ago, Troy said:

As far as cloning humans, do you really believe that there is a supreme being that has preventing us from doing it? Seems to me that supreme being Could have prevented us from doing a great many other things. 

Whatever entity created human beings has limited our ability to clone ourselves and/or produce life out of thin air. 

 

Otherwise, human beings have always been constructive and destructive.  It comes with the program.

 

11 hours ago, Troy said:

I would not be surprised if the ability to clone a human is an already technically possible perhaps it even been done — a sheep was cloned 30 years ago! There are of course ethical reasons for not doing it, which may be a reason no one‘s going around boasting about doing it. 

Correct.  Scientists have successfully cloned animals.  However, it's never been to the point of true viability as far as we know.  Limited in scope, they use the science in plants and animals mainly for breeding purposes.

 

11 hours ago, Troy said:

I think it is possible for man to create something that is self-aware. At the rate, things have been improving. Some of us may see this happen in our lifetime

H8ll, considering that humans cannot 1) clone themselves, 2) cure diseases, 3) live outside the Earth without a suit or 4) travel more than several thousand miles within the solar system, I would not bet on humans being capable of producing a self-aware robot in several lifetimes.

[Delano]

18 hours ago, Troy said:

Similarly a process outside of our conscious awareness does not mean that it cannot be mimicked in software and hardware.

How can you mimic something that doesn't show up in consciousness? 

[Delano]

20 hours ago, Troy said:

this, I’m aware. From personal experience if I encounter a problem that I can’t figure out a solution for I just set it aside and “sleep on it” so to speak and solution appears seemingly out of nowhere

So according to the article most thinking task place outside of consciousness and intuition a vital part of that, even when it is wrong

[Troy]

9 hours ago, ProfD said:

I'm not interested in AI doing whatever humans are too lazy to do for themselves.

 

Lazy... may not be the right word.  I, for example, have AI doing stuff I'm simply too stupid, ignorant, or slow to do.  

 

10 hours ago, ProfD said:

Whatever entity created human beings has limited our ability to clone ourselves and/or produce life out of thin air. 

 

I disagree with this wholeheartedly LOL!  And here I thought you was putting humanity on a pedestal 

 

10 hours ago, ProfD said:

I would not bet on humans being capable of producing a self-aware robot in several lifetimes.

 

As @Delano knows I'm a betting man, and if our lifetimes were longer I'd definitely take that bet!

 

3 hours ago, Delano said:

How can you mimic something that doesn't show up in consciousness? 

 

We do it all the time.  If you thought about it for a second you'd come up with somethings.  I not I'll give you a couple of examples

 

2 hours ago, Delano said:

So according to the article most thinking task place outside of consciousness and intuition a vital part of that, even when it is wrong

 

Clearly, many mental processes and behaviors are subconscious.   Even though the individual may be completely unaware of the reason, science can sometimes provide an explanation.

 

[Delano]

7 hours ago, Troy said:

do it all the time.  If you thought about it for a second you'd come up with somethings.  I not I'll give you a couple of examples

Yes a couple of examples would be good 

7 hours ago, Troy said:

any mental processes and behaviors are subconscious.   Even though the individual may be completely unaware of the reason, science can sometimes provide an explanation.

And you believe that AI can model the unconscious and intuition. Okay but if you are programming I don't think sometimes understanding the unconscious and intuition is going to work. A large part of the mind is a Black Box. Did you know that we react to things that we sent able to see. Either because they happen to fast. Or we react before we have seen the image?

 

There are quite a few of these studies. 

 

Science is at post to explain these types of occurrences. But you think AI can solve this puzzle.

[ProfD]

12 hours ago, Troy said:

Lazy... may not be the right word.  I, for example, have AI doing stuff I'm simply too stupid, ignorant, or slow to do. 

The difference in using AI for indolence and industriousness will be evident over time.

 

A telltale sign will be a significant rise in the  number of people on permanent vacation.

12 hours ago, Troy said:

I disagree with this wholeheartedly LOL!  And here I thought you was putting humanity on a pedestal 

 It has taken humans a couple hundred thousand years to evolve to this point.

 

We've only had electricity as we know it for less than 150 years. Computers haven't been around for half that time yet. 

 

Granted, computers do accelerate processes. Still requires human input in order to produce output. 

12 hours ago, Troy said:

As @Delano knows I'm a betting man, and if our lifetimes were longer I'd definitely take that bet!

I'd take the bet if we were guaranteed at least 50 more years on the planet.

12 hours ago, Troy said:

Clearly, many mental processes and behaviors are subconscious.   Even though the individual may be completely unaware of the reason, science can sometimes provide an explanation.

Science only gets it sometimes...maybe.  Still, there is so much that we simply don't *know* or cannot explain. Good luck programming it.

[Troy]

4 hours ago, Delano said:

AI can model the unconscious and intuition

 

No, that is not what I'm saying.  Why "model" the subconscious or intuition when you can create something superior? 

 

Poets and musicians often get inspiration for unknown sources they come up with a tune or turn of phase out of "nowhere."  How does this happen.  AI can create new poems and music.  Is this modeled after the way humans do it who knows -- it doesn't matter if the end result is the same -- or even superior, as the future seems to indicate.

 

4 hours ago, Delano said:

Did you know that we react to things that we sent able to see. Either because they happen to fast. Or we react before we have seen the image?

 

Yes, but even our subliminal reactions are slow compared to a computer.  Here too your question implies humans can see the future and react to it in real time.  I don't believe this is true -- otherwise we'd be much better off as a species.  We fail to react properly when we have complete,100%, knowledge of what is going to happen. 

 

46 minutes ago, ProfD said:

The difference in using AI for indolence and industriousness will be evident over time.

 

I don't see it that way.  My parents generation worked hard.  The were one of the last generations of Black people reared on a farm.  One of my older aunts looked at me recently, complemented me on my appearance said, in a good-natured tone, "this boy hasn't worked a day in his life."  Relative speaking I haven't.  I have never walk behind a mule with a plow.  I have never picked cotton, primed tobacco, missed to school to labor in the fields for 12 hours or more a day.

 

No, my generation at least those with some education has not has to work -- but we are not "lazy." We just work differently technology has enable me to eke out a living sitting at a desk...  AI will free us of many tasks and to become productive in other ways.

 

But corporation do have the ability to abuse these AI, as they've done with social media, ad abuse us even further in this scenario laziness will be the least of out worries  

 

58 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Scince only gets it sometimes...maybe.  Still, there is so much that we simply don't *know* or cannot explain. Good luck programming it

 

Agreed about science, but again I'm not saying AI is an attempt to program a human.  There are many ways of accomplishing a task. The way humans do it is just one -- and I'm sure it is not the optimal way.

 

If we accept that AI is better at some things, like the game Go.  Why can't we imagine it (or some future tech) being better at everything else humans can do?

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Troy said:

Poets and musicians often get inspiration for unknown sources they come up with a tune or turn of phase out of "nowhere."  How does this happen.  AI can create new poems and music.  Is this modeled after the way humans do it who knows -- it doesn't matter if the end result is the same -- or even superior, as the future seems to indicate.

Humans don't have to be given *instructions* in order to write a poem or produce music.  The gifted and/or talented just do it.

 

OTOH, AI has to be fed data and produce output based on inquiry or instruction i.e. told to write a poem about [insert here] or compose music [insert style here].  IOW, AI does not *think* for itself.

 

1 hour ago, Troy said:

No, my generation at least those with some education has not has to work -- but we are not "lazy." We just work differently technology has enable me to eke out a living sitting at a desk...  AI will free us of many tasks and to become productive in other ways.

Education has been the lottery ticket that has afforded Black people an opportunity to do non-physical *work* within the system of racism white supremacy. 

 

AI will be used to replace people especially non-whites  in *jobs*.  Rich folks will be able to *automate* their products and services without having to deal with human personnel and management issues.

 

Hopefully, Black folks will use their brains, physical abilities and technology to get their entrepreneurial hustle up and build their own industries and economies.

 

 

1 hour ago, Troy said:

But corporation do have the ability to abuse these AI, as they've done with social media, ad abuse us even further in this scenario laziness will be the least of out worries  

Absolutely.  As mentioned above, for the people who do not see the handwriting on the wall, life will become a lot harder in terms of economic survival.

1 hour ago, Troy said:

Agreed about science, but again I'm not saying AI is an attempt to program a human.  There are many ways of accomplishing a task. The way humans do it is just one -- and I'm sure it is not the optimal way.

 

If we accept that AI is better at some things, like the game Go.  Why can't we imagine it (or some future tech) being better at everything else humans can do?

I'm not debating or denying that AI won't be better at a lot of things humans do.  Just not in terms of creativity.  The net gain will benefit wealthy people moreso than the masses. 

 

Sitting around and having no job or anything constructive and productive to do might look good.  But, it's like being a vacation.  Eventually, there is a desire to get back *home* and to whatever *work* entails.

[Delano]

1 hour ago, Troy said:

  Here too your question implies humans can see the future and react to it in real time. 

That's exactly what was found.

 

12 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Humans don't have to be given *instructions* in order to write a poem or produce music.  The gifted and/or talented just do it.

 

OTOH, AI has to be fed data and produce output based on inquiry or instruction i.e. told to d to "write a poem about [insert here] or compose music [insert style here].  IOW, AI does not *think* for itself.

100%

This is just one example of a study where people are reactingbtona stimulus that was to fast or short to be consciously perceived.

 

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0044496

[Delano]

10 hours ago, Troy said:

AI can create new poems and music.  Is this modeled after the way humans do it who knows -- it doesn't matter if the end result is the same

Again I disagree. There is a difference between copying the elements of art and being inspired by others. Beyonce's music sounds like it oild have been created by AI. It's very formulaic and even the way she sings is very much the same. Whereas someone Miles Davis or Prince does the opposite. They are trying to create something different.

 

You started this post mentioning AI marketing to you. Perhaps AI marketing or Art will always feel Artificial.