Pioneer1 Posted August 11, 2024 Report Posted August 11, 2024 @frankster I'm not sure why you would find the concept of "degrees of Blackness" so much more divisive. It's not like AfroAmerica hasn't ALREADY been divided since it's inception by degrees of Blackness. Most mixed and light skinned people have historically enjoyed privileges that the majority of our people weren't privy to, whether they asked for those privileges or not. In the past most mixed and light skinned people saw themselves not only as different than other AfroAmericans but in many ways BETTER than other AfroAmericans. Today this isn't so much the case AS MUCH as it was in the past...but it's still there in many circles. Infact, many AfroAmericans THEMSELVES often hold mixed and very light skinned people in higher esteem, especially when it comes to looks and sexual attraction. How many dark and brown skinned brothaz can be found chasing after the closest redbone in the vicinity? Even back in elementary school (I'm talking 1st and 2nd grade even) I can remember light skinned girls had their own little clique because so many boys were slobbering over them and treating them special. How many parents can be found favoring their lighter skinned and mixed children? To say that drawing clear lines of demarcation between Black people and non-Black people will only further divide the Black community is like saying identifying and separating illegal immigrants from Americans will only further divide America. Uh...duhhh...they AREN'T Americans in the first place, so it doesn't divide America. Likewise, identifying who IS and who ISN'T Black doesn't divide the Black community but actually strengthens it because you no longer have "questionable" people posing as Black in our ranks ready to "code switch" and identify with whatever is convenient at the time. The divisions are already there. Perhaps as AfroAmericans we should take the reins in OUR hands and decide for ourselves along what lines our community will be divided and categorized by.
ProfD Posted August 12, 2024 Report Posted August 12, 2024 Folks been tribal for a long time. Evidenced by the way people are grouped all over the planet based on race, country, culture and hairline and foreheads, etc. AfroAmericans as FBA/ADOS can delineate from Black folks who don't believe in reparations for America's original sin. That being written, distractions at best, I don't see how colorism and degrees of Blackness benefit our people in dealing with the system of racism white supremacy.
frankster Posted August 12, 2024 Report Posted August 12, 2024 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: @frankster I'm not sure why you would find the concept of "degrees of Blackness" so much more divisive. It's not like AfroAmerica hasn't ALREADY been divided since it's inception by degrees of Blackness The division was created by racist.....so as to better keep people divided 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Most mixed and light skinned people have historically enjoyed privileges that the majority of our people weren't privy to, whether they asked for those privileges or not. True....but they were still expose to the same oppression as all africans or blacks were. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: In the past most mixed and light skinned people saw themselves not only as different than other AfroAmericans but in many ways BETTER than other AfroAmericans. A situation bought on by their peculiar circumstance....in order to "pass" they must distance themselves from that which they are. Some like Hoover took it too far.... 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Today this isn't so much the case AS MUCH as it was in the past...but it's still there in many circles. Infact, many AfroAmericans THEMSELVES often hold mixed and very light skinned people in higher esteem, especially when it comes to looks and sexual attraction. How many dark and brown skinned brothaz can be found chasing after the closest redbone in the vicinity? Even back in elementary school (I'm talking 1st and 2nd grade even) I can remember light skinned girls had their own little clique because so many boys were slobbering over them and treating them special. How many parents can be found favoring their lighter skinned and mixed children? True.. Are they to be blamed? Did they create and maintain this system? 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: To say that drawing clear lines of demarcation between Black people and non-Black people will only further divide the Black community is like saying identifying and separating illegal immigrants from Americans will only further divide America. Yes in both scenarios 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Uh...duhhh...they AREN'T Americans in the first place, so it doesn't divide America. Really maybe you haven't been playing close enough attention to recent political shenanigans around the southern border and fence/wall building. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Likewise, identifying who IS and who ISN'T Black doesn't divide the Black community but actually strengthens it because you no longer have "questionable" people posing as Black in our ranks ready to "code switch" and identify with whatever is convenient at the time. You are dividing and disowning your own.... Divide the racist.....not your cohorts 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The divisions are already there. So you think it is wise or best to further the goal wishes and aims of the racist 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Perhaps as AfroAmericans we should take the reins in OUR hands and decide for ourselves along what lines our community will be divided and categorized by. Not divide....division in our ranks leads to being conquered. Lest unite and work together against racism.
Pioneer1 Posted August 17, 2024 Author Report Posted August 17, 2024 ProfD Folks been tribal for a long time. Evidenced by the way people are grouped all over the planet based on race, country, culture and hairline and foreheads, etc. Facts. I'm dealing with Africans right now who won't even sit at the same table with each other over shit like skin tone, hair texture, religion, and other tribal differences. And they aren't playing either. I try to keep it cool, but a year ago I got angry before I knew it and had to tell one of them, "Don't bring that tribalist shit over here!" AfroAmericans as FBA/ADOS can delineate from Black folks who don't believe in reparations for America's original sin. If that's the case, we'd have to delineate from half of other AfroAmericans...who don't support our getting Reparations for one reason or another, lol. That being written, distractions at best, I don't see how colorism and degrees of Blackness benefit our people in dealing with the system of racism white supremacy. Truth Knowledge Facts ....are always beneficial. If not now, surely they will be later. If nothing else but establishing the TRUTH about who is and who is not Black or AfroAmerican, that in and of itself is a great benefit. Suppose we get Reparations next year.... If we didn't separate the TRUE AfroAmericans (especially descendants of Slaves) from fakers, charlatans, and White folks with dreadlocks simply CLAIMING to be AfroAmerican...what's to stop everybody from cashing in on money meant for us? frankster The division was created by racist.....so as to better keep people divided No. Those divisions and differences were created by The CREATOR. Just like males and females were created differently; people with different skin colors, hair textures, and facial features were also created differently. All the racists did was come up with THEIR OWN way of categorizing those differences that already existed. True....but they were still expose to the same oppression as all africans or blacks were. They were oppressed but I wouldn't say they experienced necessarily the "same" oppression because historically mixed races were GENERALLY treated better than the unmixed oppressed race that they were mixed with. Think house nigga vs field nigga, positions which were often decided upon based on skin tone and closeness to Whiteness. That being said, why should their experiences warrant them to be wear the same identity as us? Native Americans were also oppressed and victims of genocide....should we embrace THEM as Black too? A situation bought on by their peculiar circumstance....in order to "pass" they must distance themselves from that which they are. Some like Hoover took it too far.... Hoover hell....lol...that man wasn't Black and we shouldn't claim him as such. He was a racist sissy..that's all we know about him. His "degree of Blackness" is pure speculation that hasn't been proven bit. True.. Are they to be blamed? Did they create and maintain this system? They didn't create it but they were helping to maintain it and they certainly benefitted from it. Really maybe you haven't been playing close enough attention to recent political shenanigans around the southern border and fence/wall building. I've paid enough attention to it to come to the conclusion that they have no intention of building any type of "wall" down there NOR do they have any intention of keeping illegal immigrants out. To the contrary, the racist Establishment has a vested interest in BRINGING IN more illegal immigrants in order to replace the AfroAmerican population. Did you pay attention to how they are letting the lighter skinned immigrants walk on through but MADE SURE TO STOP THE BLACK HAITIANS and turn them around at the border?? You are dividing and disowning your own.... ???? Who is "my own"? If they aren't Black or AfroAmerican, they ARE NOT "my own" That's the very point of the division, to establish WHO is "our people" and who is not. division in our ranks leads to being conquered. Not necessarily. Based on my research and observations, low intelligence and poor technology is what leads to being conquered. Lest unite and work together against racism. Try it. Tell me how it works out. Maybe prisoners can work with the prison warden and corrections officers to "end" the oppression going on in prisons. Rodney King asked the question, can't we all just get along. Perhaps he has the answer now.
frankster Posted August 17, 2024 Report Posted August 17, 2024 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: ProfD Folks been tribal for a long time. Evidenced by the way people are grouped all over the planet based on race, country, culture and hairline and foreheads, etc. Facts. I'm dealing with Africans right now who won't even sit at the same table with each other over shit like skin tone, hair texture, religion, and other tribal differences. And they aren't playing either. I try to keep it cool, but a year ago I got angry before I knew it and had to tell one of them, "Don't bring that tribalist shit over here!" AfroAmericans as FBA/ADOS can delineate from Black folks who don't believe in reparations for America's original sin. If that's the case, we'd have to delineate from half of other AfroAmericans...who don't support our getting Reparations for one reason or another, lol. That being written, distractions at best, I don't see how colorism and degrees of Blackness benefit our people in dealing with the system of racism white supremacy. Truth Knowledge Facts ....are always beneficial. If not now, surely they will be later. If nothing else but establishing the TRUTH about who is and who is not Black or AfroAmerican, that in and of itself is a great benefit. Suppose we get Reparations next year.... If we didn't separate the TRUE AfroAmericans (especially descendants of Slaves) from fakers, charlatans, and White folks with dreadlocks simply CLAIMING to be AfroAmerican...what's to stop everybody from cashing in on money meant for us? frankster The division was created by racist.....so as to better keep people divided No. Those divisions and differences were created by The CREATOR. Nature created Diversity and Variety Man used it to make Division and Separation. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Just like males and females were created differently; people with different skin colors, hair textures, and facial features were also created differently. We all are Africans the differences you see is diet geography and culture....evolution - always remember we are more alike than we differ. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: All the racists did was come up with THEIR OWN way of categorizing those differences that already existed. True....but realize it is arbitrary and to suit their purposes - to oppress the weak and vulnerable. Truth is we all are different individually familially clan tribally ethnically nationally and Geographically. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: True....but they were still expose to the same oppression as all africans or blacks were. They were oppressed but I wouldn't say they experienced necessarily the "same" oppression because historically mixed races were GENERALLY treated better than the unmixed oppressed race that they were mixed with. Think house nigga vs field nigga, positions which were often decided upon based on skin tone and closeness to Whiteness. So now we measuring whose oppression is worst....house slave vs field slave light slave vs dark slave - we all share slave in common lets bond along those lines 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: That being said, why should their experiences warrant them to be wear the same identity as us? Native Americans were also oppressed and victims of genocide....should we embrace THEM as Black too? No not necessarilly as Blacks.....would you prefer people of color - or as victims of the oppression 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: A situation bought on by their peculiar circumstance....in order to "pass" they must distance themselves from that which they are. Some like Hoover took it too far.... Hoover hell....lol...that man wasn't Black and we shouldn't claim him as such. He was a racist sissy..that's all we know about him. His "degree of Blackness" is pure speculation that hasn't been proven bit. cool 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: True.. Are they to be blamed? Did they create and maintain this system? They didn't create it but they were helping to maintain it and they certainly benefitted from it. How were they helping to maintain it? They sacrifice who they were by "Passing" to achieve those benefits 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Really maybe you haven't been playing close enough attention to recent political shenanigans around the southern border and fence/wall building. I've paid enough attention to it to come to the conclusion that they have no intention of building any type of "wall" down there NOR do they have any intention of keeping illegal immigrants out. The people down there who support Trump want that wall and to keep immigrants out.....Trump is using that issue to divide America and garner votes. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: To the contrary, the racist Establishment has a vested interest in BRINGING IN more illegal immigrants in order to replace the AfroAmerican population. Those are not the immigrants they want....but will allow some who fit a specific criteria 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Did you pay attention to how they are letting the lighter skinned immigrants walk on through but MADE SURE TO STOP THE BLACK HAITIANS and turn them around at the border?? Sure did 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You are dividing and disowning your own.... ???? Who is "my own"? If they aren't Black or AfroAmerican, they ARE NOT "my own" That's the very point of the division, to establish WHO is "our people" and who is not. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: division in our ranks leads to being conquered. Not necessarily. Based on my research and observations, low intelligence and poor technology is what leads to being conquered. No it was not low intelligence or poor technology but divisions from with in Greece was conquered by Rome....Rome was less intelligent and had poorer technology than Greece The Arabs conquered Persia....Persians was way way way more intelligent and advance than the Arabs In both cases above it was division from within that led to their defeat. Hence Divide and Conquer..... has remained of of the longest and greatest maxims/truisms of Warfare. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Lest unite and work together against racism. Try it. Tell me how it works out. MLkjr did it and achieve some success 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Maybe prisoners can work with the prison warden and corrections officers to "end" the oppression going on in prisons. it all depends 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Rodney King asked the question, can't we all just get along. Perhaps he has the answer now. Yes we can....Obama
ProfD Posted August 17, 2024 Report Posted August 17, 2024 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If nothing else but establishing the TRUTH about who is and who is not Black or AfroAmerican, that in and of itself is a great benefit. Suppose we get Reparations next year.... If we didn't separate the TRUE AfroAmericans (especially descendants of Slaves) from fakers, charlatans, and White folks with dreadlocks simply CLAIMING to be AfroAmerican...what's to stop everybody from cashing in on money meant for us? Getting reparations is a very tall order. That should be the main focus. The agency we establish to handle reparations will be responsible for determining who qualifies for it. Black folks have to become more organized, on code and active. I believe religious folks call it doing things in decency and in order.
nels Posted August 17, 2024 Report Posted August 17, 2024 On 8/11/2024 at 11:11 AM, Pioneer1 said: saw themselves not only as different than other AfroAmericans but in many ways BETTER than other AfroAmericans And this is still true. From another perspective, the 1/32nd rule is so yesterday and irrelevant, but to some pro-black (only) people, the crabs in a bucket approach still applies.
Pioneer1 Posted August 18, 2024 Author Report Posted August 18, 2024 frankster Nature created Diversity and Variety Man used it to make Division and Separation. If something is diverse, it's already separate...in appearance atleast. Race is nothing more than a way to CATEGORIZE that diversity or variety. We all are Africans the differences you see is diet geography and culture....evolution I don't believe that. Truth is we all are different individually familially clan tribally ethnically nationally and Geographically. Correct. And we have various ways to categorize THOSE differences. Race Tribe Sex Gender Language Region These are all different terms used to categorize those differences in an organized manner. So now we measuring whose oppression is worst Well, YOU may not be....but I certainly am measuring it. I'm not going to say that what southern Italians or Irish had to deal with is "just as bad" as what AfroAmericans had to deal with. Some oppression IS worse than others. No not necessarilly as Blacks.....would you prefer people of color - or as victims of the oppression At THIS point...right now...I'd prefer them fight their own battles and we as AfroAmericans focus on fighting ours. Because a lot of "people of color" have shown themselves to be racists too and not worthy "allies" against White racism. How were they helping to maintain it? Because they not only benefit from being praised for their light skin (which they couldn't help), but they were also GLOATING about it and would often denigrate darker skinned girls and even some darker skinned boys. Even at that young age they clearly knew they were privileged and held in higher esteem by their fellow AfroAmerican peers for their complexion, and they relished in it. The people down there who support Trump want that wall and to keep immigrants out.....Trump is using that issue to divide America and garner votes. America is already divided....Trump is simple EXPLOITING that division. Just like he didn't invent racism....but he's using it. Those are not the immigrants they want....but will allow some who fit a specific criteria It depends on the "they" you're referring to. Most of the racists who are bringing the illegal Central American immigrants in definitely want those type of immigrants because they are non-White but also non-Black and feel they can use them as a buffer-class between us. No it was not low intelligence or poor technology but divisions from with in Greece was conquered by Rome....Rome was less intelligent and had poorer technology than Greece I'm not sure about this, I have to do more research on it. The Arabs conquered Persia....Persians was way way way more intelligent and advance than the Arabs I'm not sure about this either. Not saying you're wrong...but I have to do more research. Perhaps in the PAST the Persians more advanced and smarter than the Arabs, but at the time of the Arabs actually conquering the Persian empire...not only were the Arabs united in religion and culture but they had a wealth of knowledge and technology that they got from other cultures and lands that they were able to organize and put to use. And perhaps they simply were a larger force than the Persians...intelligence and technology aside. I've heard a lot of racists...pro-Aryan and Indo-European promoters say that the Persians were smarter and more civilized than the Arabs, but they say this because the Persia empire was an Aryan based empire. However I'll have to do more research before agreeing with or arguing against that one. Yes we can....Obama The Obama Presidency actually exacerbated more division in the United States than unity. Yes, a lot of people came together to vote him in as President; but a lot more people who were already divided and racist became even more irate and aggravated and the result was Donald Trump. ProfD The agency we establish to handle reparations will be responsible for determining who qualifies for it. Exactly. Essentially we would establish GATE-KEEPERS for our community to make this determination.....which every effective and sovereign community must have if they want to maintain integrity and independence. If not, then the "government" will make those decisions for us...and you know how THAT will turn out. Black folks have to become more organized, on code and active. I personally believe that a very important key to that is first determining WHO is Black and who is not. If you don't want Brad Walinski getting a monthly Reparations check because he grew some dreadlocks and claimed African American by way of his great great grand mom....we better have a good Gate-keeping system. "Yo broooo......... Did you get yer check for this month, yet? I got mine....and guess what I spent it on!"
ProfD Posted August 18, 2024 Report Posted August 18, 2024 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The Obama Presidency actually exacerbated more division in the United States than unity. Yes, a lot of people came together to vote him in as President; but a lot more people who were already divided and racist became even more irate and aggravated and the result was Donald Trump. Facts. This election is a referendum on which direction white folks want to take the country. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Essentially we would establish GATE-KEEPERS for our community to make this determination.....which every effective and sovereign community must have if they want to maintain integrity and independence. Sure. An agency will be required to manage resources of that magnitude. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I personally believe that a very important key to that is first determining WHO is Black and who is not. If you don't want Brad Walinski getting a monthly Reparations check because he grew some dreadlocks and claimed African American by way of his great great grand mom....we better have a good Gate-keeping system. Right. There's no shortage of thieves and opportunists lurking around. Some poeple will always try to game a system in order to steal resources. I'm sure the Bureau of Indian Affairs receives a ton of applications from $5 Indians.
Troy Posted August 18, 2024 Report Posted August 18, 2024 23 hours ago, frankster said: Nature created Diversity and Variety Man used it to make Division and Separation. Word. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: We all are Africans the differences you see is diet geography and culture....evolution I don't believe that. Well, it is true. @Pioneer1 where do you find these pictures LOL!
frankster Posted August 18, 2024 Report Posted August 18, 2024 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Nature created Diversity and Variety Man used it to make Division and Separation. If something is diverse, it's already separate...in appearance atleast. No....Diversity is Inclusive 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Race is nothing more than a way to CATEGORIZE that diversity or variety. No...Race is Divisive - Exclusionary. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: We all are Africans the differences you see is diet geography and culture....evolution I don't believe that. Thats the accepted scientific fact of today.. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Truth is we all are different individually familially clan tribally ethnically nationally and Geographically. Correct. And we have various ways to categorize THOSE differences. Race Tribe Sex Gender Language Region These are all different terms used to categorize those differences in an organized manner. Sex is based 100% in biology....all the others are mostly man made social convention/constructed. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: So now we measuring whose oppression is worst Well, YOU may not be....but I certainly am measuring it. I'm not going to say that what southern Italians or Irish had to deal with is "just as bad" as what AfroAmericans had to deal with. Some oppression IS worse than others. True....All oppression is not the same in degrees Nevertheless they are the same in kind....they all result in pain and suffering. I think we are striving to End all types of Suffering....cause to each his suffering is the worst. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: No not necessarilly as Blacks.....would you prefer people of color - or as victims of the oppression At THIS point...right now...I'd prefer them fight their own battles and we as AfroAmericans focus on fighting ours. Because a lot of "people of color" have shown themselves to be racists too and not worthy "allies" against White racism. So too have a lot of black men shown to be in support of slavery/racism....Heyward Shepherd - The faithful Slave. Consider John Brown and uncle Clarence Thomas of today who you think would be a worthy ally in this struggle against racism? 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: How were they helping to maintain it? Because they not only benefit from being praised for their light skin (which they couldn't help), but they were also GLOATING about it and would often denigrate darker skinned girls and even some darker skinned boys. Even at that young age they clearly knew they were privileged and held in higher esteem by their fellow AfroAmerican peers for their complexion, and they relished in it. So they were being human beings and possible oblivious to the harm they are causing....such behavior is a known human frailty. Even you told me you took advantage of some women who came to you for help in their time of need....due to you being in a superior privileged position - human frailty. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The people down there who support Trump want that wall and to keep immigrants out.....Trump is using that issue to divide America and garner votes. America is already divided....Trump is simple EXPLOITING that division. Just like he didn't invent racism....but he's using it. So we agree. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Those are not the immigrants they want....but will allow some who fit a specific criteria It depends on the "they" you're referring to. Most of the racists who are bringing the illegal Central American immigrants in definitely want those type of immigrants because they are non-White but also non-Black and feel they can use them as a buffer-class between us. True. They really want people from Europe....but will allow those who look white. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: No it was not low intelligence or poor technology but divisions from with in Greece was conquered by Rome....Rome was less intelligent and had poorer technology than Greece I'm not sure about this, I have to do more research on it. Please do your research... Check out also the Vandals conquest of Rome....Rome was so divide they had two Emperors one in the east and the other in west. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The Arabs conquered Persia....Persians was way way way more intelligent and advance than the Arabs I'm not sure about this either. Not saying you're wrong...but I have to do more research. Please do it. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Perhaps in the PAST the Persians more advanced and smarter than the Arabs, but at the time of the Arabs actually conquering the Persian empire...not only were the Arabs united in religion and culture but they had a wealth of knowledge and technology that they got from other cultures and lands that they were able to organize and put to use. And perhaps they simply were a larger force than the Persians...intelligence and technology aside. Yes The Arabs was more united....and more fervent Religiously The Arabs were less intelligent less numerous and less technological advance.... The Persian outlawed Slavery and encourage religious diversity and social tolerance. 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I've heard a lot of racists...pro-Aryan and Indo-European promoters say that the Persians were smarter and more civilized than the Arabs, but they say this because the Persia empire was an Aryan based empire. However I'll have to do more research before agreeing with or arguing against that one. True 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes we can....Obama The Obama Presidency actually exacerbated more division in the United States than unity. You could say/argue that... 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes, a lot of people came together to vote him in as President; but a lot more people who were already divided and racist became even more irate and aggravated and the result was Donald Trump. I do not totally agree..
Pioneer1 Posted August 18, 2024 Author Report Posted August 18, 2024 Troy where do you find these pictures You'd be surprised at the amount of time it takes to find the right picture for the right statement to drive the right point home....lol. frankster No....Diversity is Inclusive Did anyone argue anything to the contrary. I said diversity is separate...not exclusive. No...Race is Divisive - Exclusionary. Yes race is divisive...anything that CATEGORIZES people or things is divisive by nature, but not necessarily exclusionary. The INCLUSION of different/diverse races, religions, and ethnicities are often the target goals of diversity programs. Thats the accepted scientific fact of today.. It's not a fact, it's a THEORY. The key word is "accepted". Doesn't mean it's true...it simply means it's ACCEPTED. Just like...as you pointed out...it was ACCEPTED that the world was flat centuries ago. Sex is based 100% in biology....all the others are mostly man made social convention/constructed. I wouldn't say 100% based in biology because people have recognized different sexes for THOUSANDS of years before they understood the biological differences between the two. Religions...most of which aren't based on biology..usually recognize the differences between the sexes also. True....All oppression is not the same in degrees Nevertheless they are the same in kind....they all result in pain and suffering. I think we are striving to End all types of Suffering....cause to each his suffering is the worst. If that's the case, would you bring an end to people being incarcerated in jails and prisons and punished for their crimes? That's a form of oppression and suffering? So too have a lot of black men shown to be in support of slavery/racism....Heyward Shepherd - The faithful Slave. True. But that fact doesn't absolve the many so-called "people of color" have proven themselves to be allies of the very racists whom we seek to separate ourselves from. Black traitors are a problem indeed, but pointing them out doesn't justify the behavior of other collaborators. Consider John Brown and uncle Clarence Thomas of today who you think would be a worthy ally in this struggle against racism? Neither. I like and admire what John Brown did, however I wouldn't team up with him as an "ally". I'd support him doing HIS PART to bring down the racist system and keep our movements separate. He's not the only White man to lead an armed rebellion against racists. Read up on another White man called "Newton Knight" down in Mississippi who also led a band of White folks and a few Black folks into fighting against the racists of his day. But at the end of the day, we don't need White men incharge LEADING revolutions and military incursions. Because that'll just be more White men incharge running the show. It's like using the Republicans to fight off the Democrats who are oppressing you currently. Would you replace ONE White oppressor with another? Even you told me you took advantage of some women who came to you for help in their time of need....due to you being in a superior privileged position - human frailty. I wouldn't call it taking advantage of the women themselves so much as taking advantage of the situation. Absolutely. I had something to offer and so did they. Also, I wouldn't call the positions that I held at the time "superior". Privileged...yes...superior...no. Nor do I call exchanging sex for favors "human frailty", I call it human nature. Women have exchanged sex for favors from men since the beginning of humanity. That's not human frailty...that's called SOCIO-ECONOMICS....in most cases it's also called MARRIAGE So we agree. It's about time...lol They really want people from Europe....but will allow those who look white. They want BOTH. Many Whites high up in the Establishment DO NOT want more Whites because they know it would lead to more competition. They actually want to keep Whites as a GOVERNING minority with layers of people of color under them acting as buffers.
frankster Posted August 19, 2024 Report Posted August 19, 2024 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster No....Diversity is Inclusive Did anyone argue anything to the contrary. I said diversity is separate...not exclusive. Not Separate....different in some minor ways 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: No...Race is Divisive - Exclusionary. Yes race is divisive...anything that CATEGORIZES people or things is divisive by nature, but not necessarily exclusionary. Racism is exclusionary 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: The INCLUSION of different/diverse races, religions, and ethnicities are often the target goals of diversity programs. True 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Thats the accepted scientific fact of today.. It's not a fact, it's a THEORY. The key word is "accepted". Doesn't mean it's true...it simply means it's ACCEPTED. Just like...as you pointed out...it was ACCEPTED that the world was flat centuries ago. Accepted as Fact..Once accepted as Fact it is True until - proven wrong. 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Sex is based 100% in biology....all the others are mostly man made social convention/constructed. I wouldn't say 100% based in biology because people have recognized different sexes for THOUSANDS of years before they understood the biological differences between the two. Religions...most of which aren't based on biology..usually recognize the differences between the sexes also. True. Religion is not always wrong..... Scripture is mostly Right... 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: True....All oppression is not the same in degrees Nevertheless they are the same in kind....they all result in pain and suffering. I think we are striving to End all types of Suffering....cause to each his suffering is the worst. If that's the case, would you bring an end to people being incarcerated in jails and prisons and punished for their crimes? Yes 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: That's a form of oppression and suffering? Yes 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: So too have a lot of black men shown to be in support of slavery/racism....Heyward Shepherd - The faithful Slave. True. But that fact doesn't absolve the many so-called "people of color" have proven themselves to be allies of the very racists whom we seek to separate ourselves from. Black traitors are a problem indeed, but pointing them out doesn't justify the behavior of other collaborators. I am not justifying anything. I am saying integrity and upright character is not found bound or guaranteed by skin color.... We must look beyond skin to find true allies. 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Consider John Brown and uncle Clarence Thomas of today who you think would be a worthy ally in this struggle against racism? Neither. I like and admire what John Brown did, however I wouldn't team up with him as an "ally". I'd support him doing HIS PART to bring down the racist system and keep our movements separate. Fine by me 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: He's not the only White man to lead an armed rebellion against racists. Read up on another White man called "Newton Knight" down in Mississippi who also led a band of White folks and a few Black folks into fighting against the racists of his day. Newton Knight was mostly fighting to keep the Confederacy from taking his farming supplies of inputs food tools water and blankets....not to end slavery or free blacks. 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: But at the end of the day, we don't need White men incharge LEADING revolutions and military incursions. Because that'll just be more White men incharge running the show. It's like using the Republicans to fight off the Democrats who are oppressing you currently. Would you replace ONE White oppressor with another? So long as he or she is not an oppressor and is fighting to destroy racism. 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Even you told me you took advantage of some women who came to you for help in their time of need....due to you being in a superior privileged position - human frailty. I wouldn't call it taking advantage of the women themselves so much as taking advantage of the situation. Absolutely. I had something to offer and so did they. Also, I wouldn't call the positions that I held at the time "superior". Privileged...yes...superior...no. Nor do I call exchanging sex for favors "human frailty", I call it human nature. Women have exchanged sex for favors from men since the beginning of humanity. That's not human frailty...that's called SOCIO-ECONOMICS....in most cases it's also called MARRIAGE We have had this conversation before. Call it what you like.....Those Blacks that are "passing" would also say they did for Socio-Economics reasons and privilege. 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: So we agree. It's about time...lol cool 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: They really want people from Europe....but will allow those who look white. They want BOTH. Many Whites high up in the Establishment DO NOT want more Whites because they know it would lead to more competition. They actually want to keep Whites as a GOVERNING minority with layers of people of color under them acting as buffers. True enough
Pioneer1 Posted August 24, 2024 Author Report Posted August 24, 2024 frankster Not Separate....different in some minor ways If it's different...it's separate too. Separate and different are synonyms of each other. Accepted as Fact..Once accepted as Fact it is True until - proven wrong. Just say "accepted" and leave it at that; because facts CAN'T be proven wrong. If you were able to PROVE that it was wrong at any given time then it wasn't a fact to begin with. Religion is not always wrong..... It depends on the religion. Of all of the major religions today, are you telling me that you've found one where the doctrine was 100% correct and never wrong? If so, please point that religion out because I haven't found it yet. Scripture is mostly Right... I'm not sure how you determine whether a scripture is right "mostly" from being right "partly" or how you determine the percentages of it. But in my opinion, if it's from GOD....it has to be ALL RIGHT 100%. No wrong or error can be found in it what so ever for it to be legitimate. Now you can still read it and follow SOME of the advice in it....much like you can a dictionary or good book....but you can't call it "holy" or attribute it to GOD. It must be PERFECT. Also, how effective is your "scripture" in solving the problems that humans usually face? Does it cure cancer, end poverty, stop oppression? That's how you determine if it's "right" or not.....not a bunch of poetic words strung along in a book. I am saying integrity and upright character is not found bound or guaranteed by skin color.... We must look beyond skin to find true allies. Yes...BEYOND skin color; however it STARTS with skin color. In other words, skin color is the FIRST criteria to be met in determining who you allies are or ARE NOT, but then it goes BEYOND there to other factors like loyalty, history, agenda, etc..... Kind of like, there are good and bad women so just being a woman ALONE doesn't necessarily make one a good wife. But if I'm looking for a good mate the FIRST criteria must be THAT she's a woman....lol. Then after that's been determined, I look at the other characteristics like her age, her looks, her health, mental state, etc.... So long as he or she is not an oppressor and is fighting to destroy racism. As long as they are "in charge" over other Black people in any way there is a good chance that they will BECOME the oppressor at some point and time, and you'll be right back where you started. The Arabs were oppressing the Africans in parts of Africa and indoctrinating them with falsehood and self-hatred. Many Africans looked to the Europeans for help to get the Arabs off their backs, but when the Europeans defeated the Arabs in certain regions....THEY became the new oppressors and their type of racism and slavery turned out to be even more vicious! The lesson learned is.....don't replace one oppressor with another.
ProfD Posted August 24, 2024 Report Posted August 24, 2024 Most people will accept some form of a benevolent dictatorship which is a combination of control (laws/rules) and leadership. We see examples of benevolent dictatorship in families, business, government, military, education, etc. Socialism could work similarly. Oppression is a negative use of power, influence and resources to insure that a group of people never rise above a certain station. The fundamental question to ask oneself is how would it feel to be confined to a prison for no reason. Human beings should not be oppressing each other regardless of anything else i.e. gender, race, ethnicity, culture, religion, etc. Human beings should be loving the h8ll outta each other. It's really that simple. Convoluted by evil BS (greed, envy, jealousy, hate, etc.).
Pioneer1 Posted August 24, 2024 Author Report Posted August 24, 2024 I agree, that humans shouldn't oppress eachother. However as I told frankster, if one MUST and is FORCED to accept a role....then I would rather play the role of oppressor than oppressed.
ProfD Posted August 24, 2024 Report Posted August 24, 2024 10 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: ....if one MUST and is FORCED to accept a role....then I would rather play the role of oppressor than oppressed. See that's just it...there shouldn't be such a role to play. The genesis of that mentality is evil.
Pioneer1 Posted August 24, 2024 Author Report Posted August 24, 2024 8 minutes ago, ProfD said: See that's just it...there shouldn't be such a role to play. The genesis of that mentality is evil. Evil???? Is it really? How so? And as the "resident atheist" of this message board....lol.....how do you determine what is "good" and "evil"? Or should you even BELIEVE in anything being "evil" if you are atheistic in belief?
frankster Posted August 24, 2024 Report Posted August 24, 2024 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Not Separate....different in some minor ways If it's different...it's separate too. Separate and different are synonyms of each other. In this sense the differences are Complementary 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Accepted as Fact..Once accepted as Fact it is True until - proven wrong. Just say "accepted" and leave it at that; because facts CAN'T be proven wrong. If you were able to PROVE that it was wrong at any given time then it wasn't a fact to begin with. Yes accept as facts up until proven wrong.... It was a fact that man could not fly (sustained) in the air....until the invention of balloons and airplanes With the expansion of Knowledge and Technology ....What once was facts can be wrong or redefined. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Religion is not always wrong..... It depends on the religion. Of all of the major religions today, are you telling me that you've found one where the doctrine was 100% correct and never wrong? If so, please point that religion out because I haven't found it yet. Often it is a matter interpretation and understanding....Take for instance a famous newspaper headline that said "The Eagle Has Landed On the Moon" if you do not understand you and find that newspaper headline....you may think they are talking about an actual living eagle landed on the moon. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Scripture is mostly Right... I'm not sure how you determine whether a scripture is right "mostly" from being right "partly" or how you determine the percentages of it. But in my opinion, if it's from GOD....it has to be ALL RIGHT 100%. No wrong or error can be found in it what so ever for it to be legitimate. Scripture Is Man recording and imparting his experience with God Life Existence....in his words. Religion is another man's understanding and imparting of those words of the other Man. Spirituality is your experience of God. God is always Right....Man's Understanding and recording of God's Words or His Experience of God can be wrong 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Now you can still read it and follow SOME of the advice in it....much like you can a dictionary or good book....but you can't call it "holy" or attribute it to GOD. It is a good book.... Even in a dictionary the meaning of words change and sometime the same word has a different meanings. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: It must be PERFECT. It's imperfection is Man's Fault. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Also, how effective is your "scripture" in solving the problems that humans usually face? Does it cure cancer, end poverty, stop oppression? That's how you determine if it's "right" or not.....not a bunch of poetic words strung along in a book. Some say it does....cure cancer - can I have an Amen or personal testimony. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: I am saying integrity and upright character is not found bound or guaranteed by skin color.... We must look beyond skin to find true allies. Yes...BEYOND skin color; however it STARTS with skin color. In other words, skin color is the FIRST criteria to be met in determining who you allies are or ARE NOT, but then it goes BEYOND there to other factors like loyalty, history, agenda, etc..... Our skin color tells the oppressor we are to be oppressed....we shared that commonality. Skin color should not be a criteria.....in the fight against Oppression. Skin Color should however be a criterion in Reparation and Affirmative Action 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Kind of like, there are good and bad women so just being a woman ALONE doesn't necessarily make one a good wife. But if I'm looking for a good mate the FIRST criteria must be THAT she's a woman....lol. Then after that's been determined, I look at the other characteristics like her age, her looks, her health, mental state, etc.... I agree if you are looking for a wife.....but we are looking for allies - false equivalency. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: So long as he or she is not an oppressor and is fighting to destroy racism. As long as they are "in charge" over other Black people in any way there is a good chance that they will BECOME the oppressor at some point and time, and you'll be right back where you started. It is a possibility. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: The Arabs were oppressing the Africans in parts of Africa and indoctrinating them with falsehood and self-hatred. Many Africans looked to the Europeans for help to get the Arabs off their backs, but when the Europeans defeated the Arabs in certain regions....THEY became the new oppressors and their type of racism and slavery turned out to be even more vicious! True 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: The lesson learned is.....don't replace one oppressor with another. True
ProfD Posted August 24, 2024 Report Posted August 24, 2024 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: And as the "resident atheist" of this message board....lol.....how do you determine what is "good" and "evil"? Or should you even BELIEVE in anything being "evil" if you are atheistic in belief? Resident agnostic. A human being doesn't have to be religious to know the difference between good and evil (bad). Just a matter of living long enough to see and/or experience the difference.
frankster Posted August 24, 2024 Report Posted August 24, 2024 God is All....there is nothing but God Good is the Finite Verb for God. There is only Good....Evil is the absence of Good Evil the Absence of Good is Relative Good (and the word evil) is a term with religious connotations that means or stands for Kindness and Fairness which is Spiritual and hence Universal..... Good is Life Supporting and Promoting....All known Life Forms Recognize and Knows Goodness Innately. 1
Pioneer1 Posted August 24, 2024 Author Report Posted August 24, 2024 ProfD A human being doesn't have to be religious to know the difference between good and evil (bad). Just a matter of living long enough to see and/or experience the difference Right and wrong....yes. Good and evil......hmmm??? No, you don't have to be religious. I'm not religious myself, however I definitely believe in The SUPREME BEING and Divinity in general. If you believe in Neither, then basically you would believe that human beings are the ultimate authority. Thus..."good" as well as "evil" would be a matter of OPINION...personal or societal...varying from person to person, society to society, and circumstance to circumstance? frankster There is only Good....Evil is the absence of Good So in other word, you're saying evil DOESN'T EXIST.
Troy Posted August 25, 2024 Report Posted August 25, 2024 All of the human beings running around today are all direct descendants of Africans. 12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Thus..."good" as well as "evil" would be a matter of OPINION...personal or societal...varying from person to person, society to society, and circumstance to circumstance? Exactly, even Christians can’t agree on whether abortion is good or evil. 19 hours ago, frankster said: All known Life Forms Recognize and Knows Goodness Innately. That can’t possibly be true, given the above example about abortion. People — especially religious ones — can justify ANY action as good or evil.
ProfD Posted August 25, 2024 Report Posted August 25, 2024 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I'm not religious myself, however I definitely believe in The SUPREME BEING and Divinity in general. If you believe in Neither, then basically you would believe that human beings are the ultimate authority. That might be true of an atheist. Human beings seem to be the ultimate authority of what happens among them whether it's good or evil. 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Thus..."good" as well as "evil" would be a matter of OPINION...personal or societal...varying from person to person, society to society, and circumstance to circumstance? Human beings volunteer to do things that make life better for others. Human beings start wars leading to death and destruction. Which is good or evil, both or neither? IMO, a personal decision that doesn't adversely affect the lives of others isn't a matter of good or evil.
Pioneer1 Posted August 25, 2024 Author Report Posted August 25, 2024 ProfD Human beings volunteer to do things that make life better for others. Human beings start wars leading to death and destruction. Which is good or evil, both or neither? IMO, a personal decision that doesn't adversely affect the lives of others isn't a matter of good or evil If....not that I agree with it....but IF human beings were the ultimate authority over what is right and wrong, then WARS are both good AND evil. Good for the winner....and evil for the loser. Would I be correct in that assessment?
Troy Posted August 25, 2024 Report Posted August 25, 2024 The war against Hitler and Nazi Germany was considered good except by the Germans. The war against Hamas is considered good by ZionistsI and bad by Palestinians and many Americans. Regardless of who wins. Good and evil are social constructs. There are no universal definitions across cultures and time. This is why you need laws and people to enforce them.
ProfD Posted August 25, 2024 Report Posted August 25, 2024 War is a necessary evil among human beings as long as they have to protect themselves for survival. Evil intentions lead to wars. An individual or group of people decides they want to destroy or oppress other people. A fight ensues. Regardless of "winners and losers", there's dead people on both sides. Eliminate evil intent. Practice peace, love and harmony. That's universal.
frankster Posted August 25, 2024 Report Posted August 25, 2024 15 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster There is only Good....Evil is the absence of Good So in other word, you're saying evil DOESN'T EXIST. Only Nature exist. Shadows are the Absence of Light.....do shadows exist? 3 hours ago, Troy said: All of the human beings running around today are all direct descendants of Africans. True 3 hours ago, Troy said: Exactly, even Christians can’t agree on whether abortion is good or evil. True 3 hours ago, Troy said: That can’t possibly be true, given the above example about abortion. Killing in and of itself is not always Bad or evil....Nature says eat or be eaten - in otherwords kill or be killed If you kill to promote or support life....it is not bad or wrong. 3 hours ago, Troy said: People — especially religious ones — can justify ANY action as good or evil. Yes ......this is so because Right and Wrong is often used interchangeable with/for Good and Evil. Right and Wrong is A Social Convention...And is subject to Time Place Situation and Culture Right is based on Good and Wrong is based on Evil....Though it is based on it is not the same 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: ProfD Human beings volunteer to do things that make life better for others. Human beings start wars leading to death and destruction. Which is good or evil, both or neither? IMO, a personal decision that doesn't adversely affect the lives of others isn't a matter of good or evil If....not that I agree with it....but IF human beings were the ultimate authority over what is right and wrong, then WARS are both good AND evil. Good for the winner....and evil for the loser. Would I be correct in that assessment? Wars are the wrong and thus evil 2 hours ago, Troy said: Good and evil are social constructs. There are no universal definitions across cultures and time. This is why you need laws and people to enforce them. Yes....But because said it was Good after The Creation....I think it best to say Right from Wrong is a social construct and thereby not Universal. Good is Universal....Evil Right and Wrong are not. 3 hours ago, Troy said: People — especially religious ones — can justify ANY action as good or evil.
ProfD Posted August 25, 2024 Report Posted August 25, 2024 42 minutes ago, frankster said: Wars are the wrong and thus evil Right. Starting a war is evil but amazingly, people will justify and support it. The US is sending billions of dollars to support wars that are kiliing more innocent people than combatants. The American taxpayers aren't enraged about it. White folks start wars to put the world on notice and remind them that death and destruction is child's play when it comes to maintaining power.
Pioneer1 Posted August 25, 2024 Author Report Posted August 25, 2024 Troy The war against Hitler and Nazi Germany was considered good except by the Germans. The war against Hamas is considered good by ZionistsI and bad by Palestinians and many Americans. Regardless of who wins. Great examples, both. Good and evil are social constructs. There are no universal definitions across cultures and time. This is why you need laws and people to enforce them. I want to argue that there ARE definite goods and evils, but at this point I wouldn't be able to provide proof. But I do agree with your second point that as humans we need fair laws and they need to be properly enforced. ProfD War is a necessary evil among human beings as long as they have to protect themselves for survival. If it's necessary, how can it be evil? Evil intentions lead to wars. An individual or group of people decides they want to destroy or oppress other people. What about the example of WWII that Troy cited above? Wasn't that an example of a war started to END oppression and evil (atleast that was the claim)??? Eliminate evil intent. Practice peace, love and harmony. That's universal But if the U.S. didn't involve itself and go to war against Hitler and WWII, wouldn't that have led to MORE oppression and evil as Hitler and the Germans took more and more land and committed more and more genocide? And what about the U.S. Civil War? If it weren't for taking up arms and going against slaver holders in the South...wouldn't the Evil Institution still exist? frankster Only Nature exist. Shadows are the Absence of Light.....do shadows exist? First you say ONLY Good exists. Next you say ONLY Nature exists. Should we take this to mean that Good = Nature? And again, if ONLY Good exists then there is nothing outside of good. So going by your logic evil does NOT exist, right? If you kill to promote or support life....it is not bad or wrong. Hmmm.....interesting concept. Yes ......this is so because Right and Wrong is often used interchangeable with/for Good and Evil. Right and Wrong is A Social Convention...And is subject to Time Place Situation and Culture Right is based on Good and Wrong is based on Evil....Though it is based on it is not the same I agree Although I would say that right and wrong...in many cases..are more than mere social conventions. While "good and evil" may be up for debate depending on religion and culture, some forms of right and wrong involve simple LOGIC. For examples: 2+2=4 is Right 2+2=19 is Wrong A man who inserts his penis in an ear to make a baby is wrong A man who inserts his penis into a vagina to make a baby is right. This goes beyond religion, morality, and culture....and is about basic math and science. Wars are the wrong and thus evil So you believe the U.S. Civil War was wrong and evil? Also, I thought evil didn't exist since ALL was good...according to you.
Troy Posted August 25, 2024 Report Posted August 25, 2024 5 hours ago, frankster said: Good is Universal Here too I'd argue that it is not. Some people, for example, believe gay men are evil, an abomination other believe they are inherently good.
ProfD Posted August 26, 2024 Report Posted August 26, 2024 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If it's necessary, how can it be evil? Innocent people have to die. 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: What about the example of WWII that Troy cited above? Wasn't that an example of a war started to END oppression and evil (atleast that was the claim)??? An evil man started the world war when he decided to exterminate another group of people. The US and its allies had to get involved to stop the axis of evil. 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: And what about the U.S. Civil War? If it weren't for taking up arms and going against slaver holders in the South...wouldn't the Evil Institution still exist? The evil that was slavery led to a Civil War. War is a necessary evil in order to protect peace.
Pioneer1 Posted August 26, 2024 Author Report Posted August 26, 2024 ProfD Sounds like you're saying some evil is justified. So since you consider WAR...even if it's for a greater good..."evil" because innocent people often end up dead; then would you call personal self-defense "evil" as well if no innocent people are harmed? For example...... If a man is walking along with his woman and child and some fool runs up on him and tries to rob and assault them, would he beating that man up be a "necessary evil" in your opinion. Or not evil at all since the only one harm was directed at was the assailant?
ProfD Posted August 26, 2024 Report Posted August 26, 2024 Violence in all forms is a necessary evil among human beings especially when it comes to protection and survival. That's why some folks teach their kids how to fight. Same reason militaries exist.
umbrarchist Posted August 26, 2024 Report Posted August 26, 2024 (edited) On 8/17/2024 at 7:15 AM, Pioneer1 said: Not necessarily. Based on my research and observations, low intelligence and poor technology is what leads to being conquered. Intelligence and knowledge and technology are different things. Any moron can shoot machine gun. A couple of White Brits could gun down 100 Black men with spears. No doubt it would make them feel superior. But that does not mean that they could fix the gun if it malfunctioned. This is why people should KNOW Physics! Edited August 26, 2024 by umbrarchist bolding italics
frankster Posted August 29, 2024 Report Posted August 29, 2024 On 8/25/2024 at 3:01 PM, Pioneer1 said: frankster Only Nature exist. Shadows are the Absence of Light.....do shadows exist? First you say ONLY Good exists. Next you say ONLY Nature exists. Should we take this to mean that Good = Nature? God/Nature is Infinite....Good is Finite - Good is the Finite Aspect of God. Good is action in tune with Nature On 8/25/2024 at 3:01 PM, Pioneer1 said: And again, if ONLY Good exists then there is nothing outside of good. So going by your logic evil does NOT exist, right? There is nothing Outside of God On 8/25/2024 at 3:01 PM, Pioneer1 said: If you kill to promote or support life....it is not bad or wrong. Hmmm.....interesting concept. cool On 8/25/2024 at 3:01 PM, Pioneer1 said: Yes ......this is so because Right and Wrong is often used interchangeable with/for Good and Evil. Right and Wrong is A Social Convention...And is subject to Time Place Situation and Culture Right is based on Good and Wrong is based on Evil....Though it is based on it is not the same I agree Although I would say that right and wrong...in many cases..are more than mere social conventions. How so On 8/25/2024 at 3:01 PM, Pioneer1 said: While "good and evil" may be up for debate depending on religion and culture, some forms of right and wrong involve simple LOGIC. For examples: 2+2=4 is Right 2+2=19 is Wrong This is true only when dealing with Discreet objects..... Maths on the other hand is Abstract Is the first 2 Negative or Positive....? We are assuming(as per convention) they are both positive. Are we adding temperatures or apples. In a Binary Number System 2 is 10 On 8/25/2024 at 3:01 PM, Pioneer1 said: A man who inserts his penis in an ear to make a baby is wrong A man who inserts his penis into a vagina to make a baby is right. Now you are speaking biology. If the 'penis in ear' is part foreplay then it could be consider correct.....'Penis in Vagina is wrong' if the Woman does not Consent Just inserting "penis in vagina" will not result in a baby....woman must be ovulating and man must ejaculate viable sperm On 8/25/2024 at 3:01 PM, Pioneer1 said: This goes beyond religion, morality, and culture....and is about basic math and science. Even Simply Logic has Rules and Principles that they must adhere to....those are usually Conventions agreed up on On 8/25/2024 at 3:01 PM, Pioneer1 said: Wars are the wrong and thus evil So you believe the U.S. Civil War was wrong and evil? Wars are Evil....The Ends do not Justify the Means. On 8/25/2024 at 3:01 PM, Pioneer1 said: Also, I thought evil didn't exist since ALL was good...according to you. What we call Evil is the Absence of Good
Pioneer1 Posted August 30, 2024 Author Report Posted August 30, 2024 On 8/24/2024 at 1:14 PM, frankster said: God is All....there is nothing but God Good is the Finite Verb for God. There is only Good....Evil is the absence of Good Evil the Absence of Good is Relative Good (and the word evil) is a term with religious connotations that means or stands for Kindness and Fairness which is Spiritual and hence Universal..... Good is Life Supporting and Promoting....All known Life Forms Recognize and Knows Goodness Innately. ProfD Violence in all forms is a necessary evil among human beings especially when it comes to protection and survival. If it's NECESSARY, then how could it be categorized as "evil"? The fact that you HAD to do it means it was basically beyond your control or choice. Even a just court will take "duress" into consideration when determining somebody's guilt. Umbrarchist Intelligence and knowledge and technology are different things. I agree. A couple of White Brits could gun down 100 Black men with spears. No doubt it would make them feel superior. But that does not mean that they could fix the gun if it malfunctioned. But ANOTHER White Brit who MADE the gun can fix it. Or make another one. Or make 5 more and look for MORE Black men with spears to go after. Perhaps those Black men should focus on making a superior weapon themselves. This is why people should KNOW Physics! Again, I agree. However this takes INTELLIGENCE. You can try all you want, you aren't going to teach a retarded person physics or qualify him for an Engineering degree. frankster God/Nature is Infinite....Good is Finite - Good is the Finite Aspect of God. Good is action in tune with Nature Where are you getting these definitions? Are you making them up? There is nothing Outside of God How do you know? How so Because right and wrong also includes CORRECT and INCORRECT. An INCORRECT ANSWER is a WRONG ANSWER Now you are speaking biology. If the 'penis in ear' is part foreplay then it could be consider correct.....'Penis in Vagina is wrong' if the Woman does not Consent Go back and re-read the example I gave. I said, a man who inserts his penis in an ear to make a baby is wrong. Just inserting "penis in vagina" will not result in a baby....woman must be ovulating and man must ejaculate viable sperm Ok. Despite that extra information....my statement still stands correct, does it not? Wars are Evil....The Ends do not Justify the Means. Ok, so your position is that wars are evil. That includes the Civil War. Also, I understand that you don't believe the ends of ending Chattel Slavery for AfroAmericans and keeping the states united which soon gave way to the most powerful nation on this planet, were just reasons for going to war. What we call Evil is the Absence of Good You said there is ONLY good. If there is ONLY good....how can their be any "absence" of it? It would be theoretically impossible. Then, evil wouldn't be the "absence" of good....because it wouldn't exist in the first place.
umbrarchist Posted August 30, 2024 Report Posted August 30, 2024 16 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Umbrarchist Intelligence and knowledge and technology are different things. I agree. A couple of White Brits could gun down 100 Black men with spears. No doubt it would make them feel superior. But that does not mean that they could fix the gun if it malfunctioned. But ANOTHER White Brit who MADE the gun can fix it. Or make another one. Or make 5 more and look for MORE Black men with spears to go after. Perhaps those Black men should focus on making a superior weapon themselves. This is why people should KNOW Physics! Again, I agree. However this takes INTELLIGENCE. You can try all you want, you aren't going to teach a retarded person physics or qualify him for an Engineering degree. I do not have a degree. The transistors do not care. I originally intended to get a Masters in Electrical Engineering and a Masters in Physics. I dropped out after two years after contemplating punching out some White broad in administration to take a Gap Year. That term did not exist back then. But fixing audio equipment for Panasonic was way more fun than school. School is a lot of BS for the money and controlled by haoles. But we need to overcome this negative stigma about reading. After I started reading Science Fiction books in grade school my mother called it "Something Crazy!" I just stood there looking at her thinking "What does that mean?" It just did not process. Spelling ANTIDISESTABLISHMENTARIANISM for some stupid nuns wasn't Crazy? Teach Yourself Electricity and Electronics by Stan Gibilisco
frankster Posted August 31, 2024 Report Posted August 31, 2024 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster God/Nature is Infinite....Good is Finite - Good is the Finite Aspect of God. Good is action in tune with Nature Where are you getting these definitions? Are you making them up? Yes 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: There is nothing Outside of God How do you know? Because God is Nature 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: How so Because right and wrong also includes CORRECT and INCORRECT. An INCORRECT ANSWER is a WRONG ANSWER Right and Wrong has to do with social and or religious values... Correct and incorrect has to do with proper way to do...in order to achieve success Words often have similar means but not necessarily the same.... Right has to do with moral and ethics as in Righteousness....Rules - straight line Correct has to with in accordance with or proper way..Model - straightened line 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Now you are speaking biology. If the 'penis in ear' is part foreplay then it could be consider correct.....'Penis in Vagina is wrong' if the Woman does not Consent Go back and re-read the example I gave. I said, a man who inserts his penis in an ear to make a baby is wrong. I said as foreplay it is fine....it is not wrong just incorrect. Foreplay is the prelude to sex 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Just inserting "penis in vagina" will not result in a baby....woman must be ovulating and man must ejaculate viable sperm Ok. Despite that extra information....my statement still stands correct, does it not? Your statement is correct but not accurate....again words with similar meanings but not the same. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Wars are Evil....The Ends do not Justify the Means. Ok, so your position is that wars are evil. That includes the Civil War. Yes 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Also, I understand that you don't believe the ends of ending Chattel Slavery for AfroAmericans and keeping the states united which soon gave way to the most powerful nation on this planet, were just reasons for going to war. The Ends That wars achieve never justify the Means..... Wars are sometimes necessary....they remain evil 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: What we call Evil is the Absence of Good You said there is ONLY good. If there is ONLY good....how can their be any "absence" of it? It would be theoretically impossible. Yes... 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Then, evil wouldn't be the "absence" of good....because it wouldn't exist in the first place. The Question as to whether or not Shadows exist....is relevant Here are the Characteristic/Aspect of Evil as I first describe then...keep things in context "Good is the Finite Verb for God. There is only Good....Evil is the absence of Good Evil the Absence of Good is Relative" In Short just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder....so too is Evil Or to quote Amelia Bassano Lanier..."There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so"
ProfD Posted August 31, 2024 Report Posted August 31, 2024 1 hour ago, frankster said: The Ends That wars achieve never justify the Means..... Wars are sometimes necessary....they remain evil... Very well put.
Pioneer1 Posted August 31, 2024 Author Report Posted August 31, 2024 ProfD Very well put. I'm sorry bro but I don't think that was well put at all. I think it was DOUBLE TALK, because if you put it in the context of his OTHER statements on the concept of evil...it doesn't make sense. Statement 1. Evil = Absence of Good Statement 2. There is NOTHING outside of Good (which means nothing exists outside of good) Statement 3. Wars ARE evil (but a necessary one) How can wars (or anything else) be evil when evil...according to him...doesn't exist? Make that make sense to me.
frankster Posted September 1, 2024 Report Posted September 1, 2024 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: ProfD Very well put. I'm sorry bro but I don't think that was well put at all. I think it was DOUBLE TALK, because if you put it in the context of his OTHER statements on the concept of evil...it doesn't make sense. Thats because you are thinking in terms Newtonian Physics and Cartesian Dualism......to understand try Quantum Physics and Monism The following will only serve to confuse you... 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Statement 1. Evil = Absence of Good After the creation God said it was Good..... Are thoughts Real? Man ate of the tree and came to know Good and Evil....duality 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Statement 2. There is NOTHING outside of Good (which means nothing exists outside of good) All action Is.....We label it one thing or the other - view from different perspectives or ends may appear to be opposites From our perspective: feeding a hungry man a chicken dinner is Good. From our perspective: it must be or seems Evil to or for the chicken that was dinner. 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Statement 3. Wars ARE evil (but a necessary one) War is an orgy of death and destruction.....death and destruction is considered evil - true or false? War is only necessary to those who do not know how to usher in change any other way.....Gandhi taught the unbelievers otherwise. 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: How can wars (or anything else) be evil when evil...according to him...doesn't exist? Race doesn't exist....but it affects you nevertheless - especially since you believe it is Real 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Make that make sense to me. No....It can not make sense - it is not Sensory It is of Mind
Pioneer1 Posted September 1, 2024 Author Report Posted September 1, 2024 frankster Yes Oh, so if you're making them up...and I figured you were....then that explains why they often contradict eachother. Because God is Nature How do you know THAT? How can that which was MADE by GOD...be "GOD" at the same time? Can a girl be her parents? Right and Wrong has to do with social and or religious values... More than that. Correct and incorrect has to do with proper way to do...in order to achieve success Yes Words often have similar means but not necessarily the same.... Right Right has to do with moral and ethics as in Righteousness....Rules - straight line Right Correct has to with in accordance with or proper way..Model - straightened line Now, you're starting to mess up again...lol. You've already laid out what "correct" meant...and I agreed. Leave it alone. Don't start adding other babble to it. I said as foreplay it is fine....it is not wrong just incorrect. Foreplay is the prelude to sex Not sure what all of that extra information is for, but for the THIRD TIME: I said, "a man who inserts his penis in an ear to make a baby is wrong." Now do you have any information that contradicts this or proves it incorrect? Yes Ok, so that's your position. That the U.S. Civil War was evil. Do you believe it should have been fought? The Ends That wars achieve never justify the Means..... Wars are sometimes necessary....they remain evil If the ends doesn't justify the means, how could it be "necessary"? What would make something "necessary" if not the end goal? The Question as to whether or not Shadows exist....is relevant Here are the Characteristic/Aspect of Evil as I first describe then...keep things in context WAIT There IS NO "characteristics/aspects" of Evil....because according to you it DOESN'T EXIST. If evil is the absence of good and nothing exists outside of good then evil doesn't exist to have any characteristics or aspects. 'nuff said. All that other jive should be irrelevant, lol. After the creation God said it was Good..... How do you know this? Are thoughts Real? Absolutely From our perspective: feeding a hungry man a chicken dinner is Good. Not necessarily From our perspective: it must be or seems Evil to or for the chicken that was dinner. Not necessarily either. War is an orgy of death and destruction.....death and destruction is considered evil - true or false? According to YOU evil doesn't exist, so death and destruction should NOT be considered evil. Race doesn't exist....but it affects you nevertheless - especially since you believe it is Real Race absolutely exists. It's a biological fact that dictionaries, encyclopedias, languages around the planet, and science itself recognizes....even if YOU don't, lol. No....It can not make sense - it is not Sensory It is of Mind What do humans use to process what their sensory organs detect?
frankster Posted September 1, 2024 Report Posted September 1, 2024 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Yes Oh, so if you're making them up...and I figured you were....then that explains why they often contradict eachother. Yeah...I made them up based on what i have read and been informed by... Life is often a contradiction to those of us who are uninformed... 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Because God is Nature How do you know THAT? How can that which was MADE by GOD...be "GOD" at the same time? By the definition of God Being Omnipresent and Omniscient...Only Nature fits those characteristic 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Can a girl be her parents? it depends on how you look at it..... 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Right and Wrong has to do with social and or religious values... More than that. cool 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Correct and incorrect has to do with proper way to do...in order to achieve success Yes cool 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Words often have similar means but not necessarily the same.... Right cool 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Right has to do with moral and ethics as in Righteousness....Rules - straight line Right cool 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Correct has to with in accordance with or proper way..Model - straightened line Now, you're starting to mess up again...lol. You've already laid out what "correct" meant...and I agreed. Leave it alone. Don't start adding other babble to it. Look up any word in the dictionary most will have several meanings. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I said as foreplay it is fine....it is not wrong just incorrect. Foreplay is the prelude to sex Not sure what all of that extra information is for, but for the THIRD TIME: I said, "a man who inserts his penis in an ear to make a baby is wrong." Now do you have any information that contradicts this or proves it incorrect? It is not wrong but incorrect unless it is a part of foreplay to make a baby the woman must be ovulating and the man should ejaculate in her vagina...that is the traditional and most common way. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes Ok, so that's your position. That the U.S. Civil War was evil. Do you believe it should have been fought? Yes ...it was evil No... it should not have been fought. Yet it was necessary....necessary evil 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The Ends That wars achieve never justify the Means..... Wars are sometimes necessary....they remain evil If the ends doesn't justify the means, how could it be "necessary"? What would make something "necessary" if not the end goal? It was necessary because the peoples involved were unable to settle their differences peacefully....change is a constant The same goal could have been reach peacefully. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The Question as to whether or not Shadows exist....is relevant Here are the Characteristic/Aspect of Evil as I first describe then...keep things in context WAIT There IS NO "characteristics/aspects" of Evil....because according to you it DOESN'T EXIST. If evil is the absence of good and nothing exists outside of good then evil doesn't exist to have any characteristics or aspects. 'nuff said. All that other jive should be irrelevant, lol. No...do not wait Evil does not exist....you thinking and behavior gives it the apparent force of existence. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: After the creation God said it was Good..... How do you know this? Man's interpretation of Scripture and Nature 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Are thoughts Real? Absolutely cool 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: From our perspective: feeding a hungry man a chicken dinner is Good. Not necessarily how so 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: From our perspective: it must be or seems Evil to or for the chicken that was dinner. Not necessarily either. how so 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: War is an orgy of death and destruction.....death and destruction is considered evil - true or false? According to YOU evil doesn't exist, so death and destruction should NOT be considered evil. Good is absent. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Race doesn't exist....but it affects you nevertheless - especially since you believe it is Real Race absolutely exists. It's a biological fact that dictionaries, encyclopedias, languages around the planet, and science itself recognizes....even if YOU don't, lol. If so then you must believe God exist? 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: No....It can not make sense - it is not Sensory It is of Mind What do humans use to process what their sensory organs detect? Exactly it is not sensorial
Pioneer1 Posted September 1, 2024 Author Report Posted September 1, 2024 frankster By the definition of God Being Omnipresent and Omniscient... Only Nature fits those characteristic How does nature fit the characteristic of being "Omnipresent" when there is the SUPER-natural Realm? "Super-natural" means above and beyond nature. Look up any word in the dictionary most will have several meanings. Yes, but unlike some of YOUR made-up definitions...in the dictionary those meanings usually: 1. Make sense 2. Don't contradict eachother. It is not wrong but incorrect unless it is a part of foreplay So you're saying a man who inserts his penis in an ear to make a baby is NOT wrong. Ok. Thanks for making that clear. Yes ...it was evil No... it should not have been fought. Yet it was necessary....necessary evil ...and this, from a man who says evil doesn't exist. Because according to him NOTHING exists outside of good. Ok, gotcha. It was necessary because the peoples involved were unable to settle their differences peacefully....change is a constant The same goal could have been reach peacefully. You just said they were UNABLE to settle their difference peacefully. Then you say they COULD have settle them peacefully. Ok. Evil does not exist....you thinking and behavior gives it the apparent force of existence. Oh, evil does NOT exist....it only "appears" to? Man's interpretation of Scripture and Nature So you're going by a man's interpretation of what GOD allegedly said? I was looking for a more sound explanation, but....it is what it is I guess. Ok. If so then you must believe God exist? Yes sir, I believe that GOD exists. Exactly it is not sensorial No, I'm asking you a question. What do human beings use to process what their sensory organs detect?
frankster Posted September 1, 2024 Report Posted September 1, 2024 55 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster By the definition of God Being Omnipresent and Omniscient... Only Nature fits those characteristic How does nature fit the characteristic of being "Omnipresent" when there is the SUPER-natural Realm? "Super-natural" means above and beyond nature. Natural is still Nature....be it super or any other form. 55 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Look up any word in the dictionary most will have several meanings. Yes, but unlike some of YOUR made-up definitions...in the dictionary those meanings usually: 1. Make sense 2. Don't contradict eachother. Yes....usually. 55 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: It is not wrong but incorrect unless it is a part of foreplay So you're saying a man who inserts his penis in an ear to make a baby is NOT wrong. Ok. Thanks for making that clear. Yes ....if it is his and her way of foreplay. 55 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes ...it was evil No... it should not have been fought. Yet it was necessary....necessary evil ...and this, from a man who says evil doesn't exist. Because according to him NOTHING exists outside of good. Ok, gotcha. Yes. 55 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: It was necessary because the peoples involved were unable to settle their differences peacefully....change is a constant The same goal could have been reach peacefully. You just said they were UNABLE to settle their difference peacefully. Then you say they COULD have settle them peacefully. Ok. Yes 55 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Evil does not exist....you thinking and behavior gives it the apparent force of existence. Oh, evil does NOT exist....it only "appears" to? Yes 55 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Man's interpretation of Scripture and Nature So you're going by a man's interpretation of what GOD allegedly said? I was looking for a more sound explanation, but....it is what it is I guess. Ok. cool 55 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: If so then you must believe God exist? Yes sir, I believe that GOD exists. Cool 55 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Exactly it is not sensorial No, I'm asking you a question. What do human beings use to process what their sensory organs detect? The Brain
Pioneer1 Posted September 2, 2024 Author Report Posted September 2, 2024 frankster Natural is still Nature....be it super or any other form. Supernatural doesn't mean a superior FORM OF Nature. It means BEYOND Nature. It's no longer in the Realm of Nature. The Brain Doesn't the Brain and the Mind work together?
frankster Posted September 2, 2024 Report Posted September 2, 2024 9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Natural is still Nature....be it super or any other form. Supernatural doesn't mean a superior FORM OF Nature. It means BEYOND Nature. Nature Is As Our understanding of Nature grows....we create categories. 9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: It's no longer in the Realm of Nature. Nature Traverse All Realms....if it exist it is of Nature. 9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The Brain Doesn't the Brain and the Mind work together? Yes... The Mind uses the Brain to exist/operate in physicality. The Mind is non-physical.
Pioneer1 Posted September 2, 2024 Author Report Posted September 2, 2024 frankster Nature Is As Our understanding of Nature grows....we create categories. I can agree with that. The same applies to humanity; which is why we establish RACE and other categories. Nature Traverse All Realms....if it exist it is of Nature. Not true. The SUPREME BEING exists, and is not of Nature. The Mind uses the Brain to exist/operate in physicality. The Mind is non-physical. So it could be said that the mind is used to make sense and process what we pick up from our sensory organs. Is that correct?
frankster Posted September 3, 2024 Report Posted September 3, 2024 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Nature Is As Our understanding of Nature grows....we create categories. I can agree with that. True 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: The same applies to humanity; which is why we establish RACE and other categories. The ideology of Race It can only Categorize as Social Construct used to achieve political and economic goal and agendas...... 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Nature Traverse All Realms....if it exist it is of Nature. Not true. The SUPREME BEING exists, and is not of Nature. The Supreme Being is Nature 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: The Mind uses the Brain to exist/operate in physicality. The Mind is non-physical. So it could be said that the mind is used to make sense and process what we pick up from our sensory organs. Is that correct? Yes it could be said....if you also believe that cars/automobiles can use humans beings ? It then begs the question what is using the Mind
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