Whites Only Planned Communities

[ProfD]

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/5419057-whites-only-community-return-to-the-land-missouri-arkansas/

 

As we already have a couple threads debating the social construct that is race, the reality that racism is alive and kicking in 2025 cannot be overlooked. 

 

The current administration is already peddling a form of white-centric, hyper-nationalism.

 

The evangelical christians and other Alt-Right groups who are moving forward with their own white agendas too.

 

One such group is Return to the Land (RTTL). These people believe in establishing communities similar to 17th century Virginia.

 

The funny thing is white folks like to drive over the speed bump that America was already inhabited before they showed up.

 

We can debate race. We can believe America is making progress as it relates to racism.

 

We cannot bury our heads in the sand thinking racism white supremacy is a thing of the past. It is still alive.

[umbrarchist]

I do not have a problem with all White towns.

 

I think Black Americans should have concentrated on intellectual segregation from Haoles long ago. I trained myself to not think the N-word before I graduated from grammar school.  

 

Part of why I left college was not wanting to pay and waste time on a "well rounded" education. Science and Technology matter, Shakespeare can stuff it.

 

We have Black people in North and South America and and continent to work with but BS is more important. Then the Haoles take out Gaddafi.

 

When Africa Awakes (1920) by Hubert Harrison
https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/69712

Black Man's Burden (1961) by Mack Reynolds
https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/32390

Border, Breed Nor Birth by Mack Reynolds
https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/30639

.

Edited August 1 by umbrarchist
Book links

[harry brown]

With.  The. Racist. Lunatic. In. The. White House. ,There. Is. Still.  No. Black. Unity.  ..Racist.  White.  In. Politics. And. Religion. Businesses. Will. Unite. To. Stop. Black. Unity. ..In. This. Country.  ..Black. Politicians. NAACP. Supports. Preachers. Stealing. All. The. Church.,Money.  ,, To Buy. Cars. Houses.  Not.  Caring. About. Poor. Black. Communities. ...Black. Democrats.   Controlling. Black  Votes. ,With. Black. Votes.  They. Can. Live. In. Better.  Communities.  ........

[ProfD]

19 hours ago, umbrarchist said:

I think Black Americans should have concentrated on intellectual segregation from Haoles long ago.

Separation and nation-building requires land, infrastructure, resources and strategic alliances.

 

19 hours ago, umbrarchist said:

Part of why I left college was not wanting to pay and waste time on a "well rounded" education. Science and Technology matter, Shakespeare can stuff it.

Math, science and technology are more important than liberal arts. Especially when it comes to nation-building.

 

19 hours ago, umbrarchist said:

We have Black people in North and South America and and continent to work with but BS is more important.

There's no shortage of Black folks on the planet. Something else is preventing wealth building to the point of autonomous sovereignty (nation).

 

19 hours ago, umbrarchist said:

Then the Haoles take out Gaddafi.

Right. A modern example of how white folks strike down those who promote Black unity.

 

Muammar Gaddafi successfully liberated Libya from white folks. He had his country thriving for about 40 years.

 

Gaddafi was a proponent of unifying the continent of Africa. He wanted to see the continent independent from a reliance on outsiders.

 

Africa would be the wealthiest continent on the planet if it had been allowed to control all of its resources.

 

Gaddafi was a threat to white power. White folks orchestrated his execution in order to protect world order.

[richardmurray]

@umbrarchist

22 hours ago, umbrarchist said:

I think Black Americans should have concentrated on intellectual segregation from Haoles long ago. I trained myself to not think the N-word before I graduated from grammar school

The Exodusters tried that, but had resistance from two groups. 

first whites from north /south/east/west who burned/killed/terrorized their towns out of existence

second blacks who were more willing to suffer the challenges of integrating with whites in the south or north to make mixed towns than the challenge of segregating from whites[their plantations/their cities/their states in the south or north] to the territories of the west that would become states.   

And it wasn't a divide and conquer scheme from that split blacks, our enslaved forebears were never united in the first place,  it was the problem black people had before the usa or brasil or haiti or mexico was founded. Black people whose forebears were enslaved by whites to the american continent original relationship to the americas doesn't provide a positive foundation to the americas.  and that is a heritage black people of the americas have alone. But it is a heritage that yields to different cultures. 

whereas whites (of europe or asia or elsewhere)have a unity based on the fact that over 90% of whites forebears came as willing people. So their is a collective idea of making a new home for yourself that binds into one culture. 

but black peoples enslaved forebears didn't want to come and most didn't, the reality is, black people enslaved forebears who made it to the american shoes are an extreme minority of their populace who was forced to leave africa. To restate, 90% of our enslaved forebears home is the atlantic ocean, from those who died on the boats which is majority plus those who jumped off the boat which is another minority. So if you me or anyone whose forebears were enslaved want to truly know where a majority of our forebears final residence was, it isn't the usa or haiti or brazil , it is the atlantic ocean. Become a citizen of the atlantic ocean. 

Now of course, most humans can not become citizens of the sea, our bodies are meant to be on land BUT, what this means is all paths we descended of enslaved choose beyond the atlantic ocean are merely acceptable options. Black DOS want to be president? fine. go to live in africa?  fine. go to live in a black country in the caribbean ? fine. make a black city in the usa? fine. all are acceptible, for the only true home of black dosers forebears is the atlantic ocean. so.... 

you stated what blacks should have concentrated on doing? 

Do you see? our forebears situation made us the only peoples in the american continent unattached, unbounded to these lands. This hurts our unity but also allows for our individualism. This is what I try to convey in this very forum, that so many of you guys don't see. You each want a culture, something grown, that is a  complete communalism that isn't justified based on our heritage, what we carry. 

Black DOSers are a people who have a unique heritage in the usa or the greater americas or including asia. Our forebears mostly died before they could land on new shores, so none of these new shores: brasil/usa/india are truly our homes. And sadly, the motherland, africa isn't our home because time never keeps a place the same. No where in africa is what our forebears were forced from. 

I end with something I tend to do in this forum, ask black people why don't they find like minded black people and go their path.

@umbrarchist why don't you live in a black town in the usa? you don't know anyone else black willing? I can't believe that. You can't find anyone else black willing? I can't believe that. 

I accept Black people whose forebears were enslaved are free to truly do what they want based on our forebears unfortune, and though it has taken years, I accept it as a positive. I tell my friends offline who talk about being american so much, why don't you run for office? why don't you become a member? 

I will repeat what I have said here many times. 

When I hear a black person offline say, we need to kill the whites. I say to them, find the other black people who also want to kill the non blacks and I hope you kill them all.  

When I hear a black person offline say, we need to embrace our citizenship to the usa . I say to them, find the other blacks who want to embrace the citizenship of the usa, and I hope you guys become presidents/ governors /mayors/ and unite all the humans in the usa in a functional plus honest peace.

When I hear a black person offline say, we need to have our own towns in the usa. I say to them, find all the other blacks who want to make their own towns in the usa, and I hope you guys make new towns/cities/and eventually becomes states with a level of self sufficiency or prosperity better than any can imagine. 

When a black person says they want something support them, if through nothing else but encouragement. You are not obliged to follow them or join them cause you may want other, and that is a heritage of Blacks. But stop preaching, stop debating, stop arguing, stop proselytizing. 

If a black person is suggesting something push them to do it, find other blacks that are willing to do the same, and if you are willing to do the same join in, but if you are not willing encourage. 

That is what we lacked circa 1865 and now. We Black whose forebears were enslaved keep trying to be other blacks or the non blacks. They are not us. A majority of our forebears who were enslaved are in one place, the oceans. We have no ties from the past to any of these places, so we are free to make them ourselves. Let's embrace that challenges, but let us also enjoy the advantages of it. Our forebears will not mind us being happy , no matter what we do. 

 

 

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, richardmurray said:

To restate, 90% of our enslaved forebears home is the atlantic ocean, from those who died on the boats which is majority plus those who jumped off the boat which is another minority. So if you me or anyone whose forebears were enslaved want to truly know where a majority of our forebears final residence was, it isn't the usa or haiti or brazil , it is the atlantic ocean. Become a citizen of the atlantic ocean. 

Now of course, most humans can not become citizens of the sea, our bodies are meant to be on land BUT, what this means is all paths we descended of enslaved choose beyond the atlantic ocean are merely acceptable options. 

Brotha @richardmurray, that is deep (no pun intended).

 

Of course, we've already had multilog around this subject.

 

I also understand your POV regarding the avoidance of proselytizing and replacing it with finding unity among one's own tribe.

 

I might have to look at the Atlantic Ocean differently as our ancestral homeland.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD 

thank you, just trying to be as honest as I can.

our history isn't easy, i think that is why so many black DOS parents don't tell it as honestly or at all to black DOS children. 

have a great weekend:)

[umbrarchist]

On 8/2/2025 at 8:28 AM, ProfD said:

Separation and nation-building requires land, infrastructure, resources and strategic alliances.

 

Why does "intellectual" segregation require land?

.

Edited August 3 by umbrarchist
Bolding

[ProfD]

9 minutes ago, umbrarchist said:

Why does "intellectual" segregation require land?

Intellectual segregation doesn't require land.

 

I'd be curious to know 1) what sources of information will be used to build knowledge and 2) how intellectual segregation be utilized in terms of wealth building.

[Pioneer1]

We already have a number of all White towns and cities in the United States, especially in the Pacific Northwest in places like Washington, Oregon, and Idaho.

Like most things exclusive to Whites, it's just not explicitly CALLED "White only".
It just IS, defacto.

As AfroAmericans, we need to establish a solid presence in every state and probably every county in this nation....just because.

However I'd like to see us CONCENTRATE our economic, political, and social power in the South East in places like Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Georgia, and the Carolinas.
That territory should be indisputably ours.

[ProfD]

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

We already have a number of all White towns and cities in the United States, especially in the Pacific Northwest in places like Washington, Oregon, and Idaho.

Like most things exclusive to Whites, it's just not explicitly CALLED "White only".
It just IS, defacto.

Absolutely.  There are states with 99% white folks. No shortage of places to call their own. Never enough though. That's why they wanna colonize Mars.

 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

As AfroAmericans, we need to establish a solid presence in every state and probably every county in this nation....just because.

Most Black folks don't have enough bread to pull up stakes from one place and move elsewhere.

 

When Black folks ahow up in places they're not expected or wanted, they will find out PDQ (pretty d8mn quickly). 

 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

However I'd like to see us CONCENTRATE our economic, political, and social power in the South East in places like Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Georgia, and the Carolinas.
That territory should be indisputably ours.

Yep. It would have been a major power move if Black folks had a few of those states on lock.

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1

You said the following

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

However I'd like to see us CONCENTRATE our economic, political, and social power in the South East in places like Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Georgia, and the Carolinas.
That territory should be indisputably ours.

LEt us say a large enough percentage of black in the usa attempt what you suggest, I only many questions but only one is historically demanded. 

What are black people who have accepted your suggestion to do when whites in or out of alabama/mississippi,florida,georgia, the carolinas use all means including physical violence to stop black people?

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, richardmurray said:

What are black people who have accepted your suggestion to do when whites in or out of alabama/mississippi,florida,georgia, the carolinas use all means including physical violence to stop black people?

Brotha @richardmurray, that's a d8mn great question.

 

I look forward to reading @Pioneer1's response.

[alvinMhaye]

Sundown towns are all over the South. Towns where, if you were Black, you could not be in when the sun went down. What they have in place is more than one man; it's a system built on exploitation and corruption. Trump can be easily replaced and nothing will change. 

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

 

Absolutely.  There are states with 99% white folks. No shortage of places to call their own. Never enough though. That's why they wanna colonize Mars.

 

I don't believe they TRULY want a "Whites Only" nation or even city.
Then who would they have to oppress and look down upon?

 

Most wise and elite White people know that for racism to really work you need atleast 2 races in the environment.
One to rule and the other to subjugate.
You take away the people of color, soon you'll have a situation like Nazi Germany or Russia/Ukraine where you have White folks just warring against eachother ove who's the "whitest".

 

 

 

Most Black folks don't have enough bread to pull up stakes from one place and move elsewhere.

 

Lol...since when did lack of money stop Black folks from re-locating????
When you don't have anything where you're at...that's an EXCELLENT time to pull up the stakes and move the tent.

 

 

 

I look forward to reading @Pioneer1's response.

 

Like James Brown said in the Big Pay Back:  Heah'tiz.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Keith Mur  richardmurray

 

LEt us say a large enough percentage of black in the usa attempt what you suggest, I only many questions but only one is historically demanded. 

What are black people who have accepted your suggestion to do when whites in or out of alabama/mississippi,florida,georgia, the carolinas use all means including physical violence to stop black people?

 

Don't let them.
Fight back.

Historically, when we've actively opposed racism by whatever means at our disposal...we've won.

ONLY when Black folks psyche themselves out into not fighting back or begin to argue with and turn on eachother, did they lose.

 

There are not only towns but ENTIRE REGIONS of the United States where it's almost all non-White Latinos and even a few nearly all Asian regions.
They aren't White....but White folks haven't stopped THEM for grouping together and doing their thing.
 

 

 

 

 

 

@alvinMhaye

 

Sundown towns are all over the South.
 

WERE all over the South or ARE still all over the South?

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

I don't believe they TRULY want a "Whites Only" nation or even city.

Then who would they have to oppress and look down upon?

White folks don't mind looking down on other people from a distance as long as they believe they're better than them.

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Lol...since when did lack of money stop Black folks from re-locating????

When you don't have anything where you're at...that's an EXCELLENT time to pull up the stakes and move the tent.

There hasn't been a mass exodus of Black folks since they left the south headed midwest, north and west.

 

But, I've seem homeless people relocating, er, dragging their sh8t all over the city.

 

There's also the lazy azz n8gglet who relocates, er, drags his bag of clothes and video game system between his momma's house and the last girlfriend who kicked him out.

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

White folks don't mind looking down on other people from a distance as long as they believe they're better than them.

 

White folks NEED Black people for sex, artistic Creativity, cheap labor, ect..

All this talk of separation and "Whites only" is usually coming from some jealous poor White trailer trash who is insecure about having his sister or mother or daughter around Black men, lol.

HE ain't got shit and don't mind living separate from Black people...unless he finds some dumb ass Black woman who loves him and then HE forgets all about it, lol.
 

But the wealthy elitist Whites do NOT want us living separately from them.
They know better.
They want to live with and near us, they just want to be ON TOP.

 

 

But, I've seem homeless people relocating, er, dragging their sh8t all over the city.

There's also the lazy azz n8gglet who relocates, er, drags his bag of clothes and video game system between his momma's house and the last girlfriend who kicked him out

 

Exactly, the point....lol.

When you ain't got shit to lose, relocating isn't so hard.
 

[ProfD]

19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

White folks NEED Black people for sex, artistic Creativity, cheap labor, ect..

Blacl artistic creativity in the form of  entertainment and sports generates a ton of money for white folks.

 

IMO, white folks dont *need* Black folks for s8x and definitely not cheap labor.

 

Black folks aren't working *those* jobs. Illegal immigrants are doing the hardest and dirtiest work. 

 

19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

All this talk of separation and "Whites only" is usually coming from some jealous poor White trailer trash who is insecure about having his sister or mother or daughter around Black men, lol.

Those people are in places that do not have Black folks.

 

19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

But the wealthy elitist Whites do NOT want us living separately from them.
They know better.
They want to live with and near us, they just want to be ON TOP.

Wealthy folks do not live among Black folks unless they happen to be wealthy too. Think Diddy in the Hamptons.

 

19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Exactly, the point....lol.

When you ain't got shit to lose, relocating isn't so hard.

Gotta have enough money to buy a ticket and a destination with housing until one finds a way to make money.

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1

On 8/3/2025 at 8:29 PM, Pioneer1 said:

I don't believe they TRULY want a "Whites Only" nation or even city.
Then who would they have to oppress and look down upon?

 

Most wise and elite White people know that for racism to really work you need atleast 2 races in the environment.
One to rule and the other to subjugate.
You take away the people of color, soon you'll have a situation like Nazi Germany or Russia/Ukraine where you have White folks just warring against eachother ove who's the "whitest".

 

On 8/4/2025 at 2:02 AM, Pioneer1 said:

White folks NEED Black people for sex, artistic Creativity, cheap labor, ect..

All this talk of separation and "Whites only" is usually coming from some jealous poor White trailer trash who is insecure about having his sister or mother or daughter around Black men, lol.

HE ain't got shit and don't mind living separate from Black people...unless he finds some dumb ass Black woman who loves him and then HE forgets all about it, lol.
 

But the wealthy elitist Whites do NOT want us living separately from them.
They know better.
They want to live with and near us, they just want to be ON TOP.

 

 

Well, you suggested a number of things to others I ponder to. 

First you suggest you believe, you are not certain, of the majority philosophy of whites in the usa. And that is fine, no one can know the future. If you are correct then your following stratagems hold wisdom BUT if your wrong, it can spell the greatest disaster for black folks in the usa at least. 

Second , I don't know what determines a white person is wise or elite, but your allusion to Nazi Germany is interesting. In NAzi Germany there was no problem with whites warring each other. the christian white germans put the jewish white germans in camps without much fuss. Modern Media makes it more dramatic than it was for the christian german populace to terrorize the jewish german + other white minorities. I wonder how many white jewish germans in germany couldn't believe what would happen in world war two after world war one. 

Third, I am not certain any fiscally poor people are needed. You assume whites need blacks for their egos or leeching ways but I am not certain of that. 

Fourth, when you say "usually coming from" what percentage ? in the Jim Crow era, by my assessment most financially wealthy whites were talking separation and whites only. Now you suggest that most fiscally wealthy whites lied about wanting blacks separated or away from them to sate fiscally poor whites. While I can't prove or disprove I can definitely say the argument can be made for or against that on even footing today or yesterday, the question is which is the majority and I can't say that can be proven easily. 

 

@ProfD 

Above explains Pioneer's basis to his thinking. As I always say in this forum. Various black people tend to have philosophies that lay the basis to their thinking that other black people have to first embrace before they can share their thinking. When Pioneer speaks to anyone else black, if said black person doesn't believe whites  in majority want an integration with blacks where whites are superior , they can't embrace his larger points, so you get proselytization or just restating positions over and over as various black people with various beliefs tend to do. My one point about history is humans do change. He uses Nazi Germany, but that is an example of change that was unexpected and yet happened. I think the Schrumpft era presidency is a change presidency, one all have to live through even if we don't believe. 

 

Now the following is his reply to me straightly and I will reply to him after

On 8/3/2025 at 8:29 PM, Pioneer1 said:

 

Don't let them.
Fight back.

Historically, when we've actively opposed racism by whatever means at our disposal...we've won.

ONLY when Black folks psyche themselves out into not fighting back or begin to argue with and turn on eachother, did they lose.

 

There are not only towns but ENTIRE REGIONS of the United States where it's almost all non-White Latinos and even a few nearly all Asian regions.
They aren't White....but White folks haven't stopped THEM for grouping together and doing their thing.
 

 

First, my knowledge of history is lacking, when have black people in opposing white terrorism in the usa won at the end of the day ? I don't recall. 

 

Second to demographics in the usa. In NYC did you know while black people were being enslaved to whites, white asians + white/mulato/mestizo whites were owning business and participating in NYC as free individuals absent having to worry about slave catchers. For me white and light asians + latinos are white. I know you see them differently, but being white for me isn't about being european or speaking english. I argue that non black latinos + non black asians from the founding of the usa were allowed by white europeans who speak english, their cousins,  far more than black people. 

 

Third, to the answer to my question. 

You already said you feel when black people have actively opposed white terror we have won, I don't recall that in the united states of america, though I do recall in the usa many black people fighting in the past. so the only question I have left is, what do you mean by 

Actively Oppose?

Please define exactly what you mean by actively oppose and please state an example of this in the usa?

 

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, richardmurray said:

@ProfD 

Above explains Pioneer's basis to his thinking. As I always say in this forum. Various black people tend to have philosophies that lay the basis to their thinking that other black people have to first embrace before they can share their thinking.

 

Understood.  I also recognize your distaste for proselytization.  However, there would be less multilog in threads if one has to embrace a philosophy prior to espousing their beliefs and/or opinion on the the subject.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD 

your right, the internet would become a museum on monday morning if my communicative ways were common:)

[ProfD]

19 hours ago, richardmurray said:

@ProfD 

your right, the internet would become a museum on monday morning if my communicative ways were common:)

To that end, as it relates to this particular coffeeshop that is AALBC, I believe the regulars should continue dialog as usual. No need to let the place dry up.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD yeah true, I hope one day a craft can keep the discourse but change its tone

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, richardmurray said:

@ProfD yeah true, I hope one day a craft can keep the discourse but change its tone

Don't worry too much about it.  Our time on the planet isn't long.  This data will end up in a digital repository.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD

hahaha:) that all depends on how the next big war ends:)

[Troy]

2 hours ago, ProfD said:

This data will end up in a digital repository.

 

Maybe your data, indeed you consciousness, will end up in a digital repository and you will be effectively immortal.

 

1 hour ago, richardmurray said:

next big war ends

 

We will either live in a utopia or dystopia.  The tech will make one of these outcomes possible.  I doubt there will be anything in between.

[Pioneer1]

2 hours ago, Troy said:

 

We will either live in a utopia or dystopia.  The tech will make one of these outcomes possible.  I doubt there will be anything in between.

Perhaps BOTH....at the same time.

One man's "utopia" is another man's "dystopia".

If you need an example, start with Chattel Slavery in America.

[ProfD]

30 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

One man's "utopia" is another man's "dystopia".

That always seems to be case like heaven and h8ll.

[Pioneer1]

51 minutes ago, ProfD said:

That always seems to be case like heaven and h8ll.

 

 

 

[Pioneer1]

richardmurray

 

 

Well, you suggested a number of things to others I ponder to. 

First you suggest you believe, you are not certain, of the majority philosophy of whites in the usa. 

 

....based on observation and history, yes.

It's clear that most of them believe in upholding the system of Racism that benefits them.

 

 

And that is fine, no one can know the future. If you are correct then your following stratagems hold wisdom BUT if your wrong, it can spell the greatest disaster for black folks in the usa at least. 

 

If I'm wrong, I'd have to be proven a such before even entertaining such thoughts.

 

 

Second , I don't know what determines a white person is wise or elite

 

Their position, wealth, and authority in this society.
Elon Musk, Bill Gates, the Devos family....
These are among the wealthy White elite in the United States.

 

 

 

 

Third, I am not certain any fiscally poor people are needed. You assume whites need blacks for their egos or leeching ways but I am not certain of that. 

 

Neither you nor I believe that White people are "supreme", however do you believe that White people support a "white supremist" system in which they THINK they are supreme over others?

 

 

 

Fourth, when you say "usually coming from" what percentage ? in the Jim Crow era, by my assessment most financially wealthy whites were talking separation and whites only. Now you suggest that most fiscally wealthy whites lied about wanting blacks separated or away from them to sate fiscally poor whites. While I can't prove or disprove I can definitely say the argument can be made for or against that

 

You can say that about 90% of what you see and hear in society...lol.

 

 

 

 

Pioneer1 :  "I think those two are in love."

 

richardmurray: "Well I can't prover or disprove they are.
An argument could actually be made for or against them being in love!"

First, my knowledge of history is lacking, when have black people in opposing white terrorism in the usa won at the end of the day ? I don't recall. 
 

Seminole Wars
Numerous confrontations by the Deacons of Defense
Numerous confrontations by Black Panther Party
Numerous skirmishes of the Nation of Islam with law enforcement.
 

There's a quite a long list of BATTLES where Black people have fought back and won.
The WAR is still waging obviously and Whites are still on top, but the individual battles do exist.


 

For me white and light asians + latinos are white. I know you see them differently, but being white for me isn't about being european or speaking english. 
 

Who said that was how "I" defined Whiteness????

what do you mean by 

Actively Oppose?
 

By active opposition I mean if when a White group aggresses against a Black group for unjust and racist reasons, that Black group immediately retaliates in an equally or greater aggressive way and defends themselves.

A good example would be when the NYPD attacked a Nation of Islam Mosque in Harlem back in 1972 and got their asses handed to them and ran out of the building.
Only to end up facing an angry mob of Black folks ready to riot out in the streets....lol.

 

1972 Harlem mosque incident - Wikipedia

 

[Pioneer1]

 

[richardmurray]

 @Troy 

7 hours ago, Troy said:

We will either live in a utopia or dystopia.  The tech will make one of these outcomes possible.  I doubt there will be anything in between.

I think the future will be just like the past, always in the middle, some winners some losers, but most in the middle. In my view, the technology like all tools in the past and far in the future never lead to the various extremes people in the past as well as far in the future tout as coming.

 

@Pioneer1

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

do you believe that White people support a "white supremist" system in which they THINK they are supreme over others?

I don't know. That is the wisest plus honest answer to your question. I can state white, as I define them, groups acting to the communal benefit of all white people, sometimes interwoven in time, but i can also say when white individuals do for their own benefit which harms others including white people. As an engineer,  a system of supremacy isn't worth much when it allows the people who are supposed to be supreme to be harmed.  Cause being harmed or killed  doesn't make one the highest. Do i think many whites think they are better than those not white? yes. but I have been fortunate enough to know various people who think of their particular race based on phenotype or gender as the best. so I don't know. I know you have things defined in your mind in such a way that you know , but I don't. 

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Who said that was how "I" defined Whiteness????

even enough I made an ass out myself. I don't know how you think intimately, nor do I know your mind, only the trickles that you share. Maybe you have the same definition of white is me, maybe you don't. but in your statement I quoted, below some of whom you suggest are not white I suggest are.

 

On 8/12/2025 at 11:54 AM, richardmurray said:

There are not only towns but ENTIRE REGIONS of the United States where it's almost all non-White Latinos and even a few nearly all Asian regions.
They aren't White....but White folks haven't stopped THEM for grouping together and doing their thing.

 

And I see. I wonder what frederick douglass/mlk jr/web dubois when younger would say to you. So many black people have followed their teachings and today in the usa black people individually while less so but still in a few cases collectively have betterment taking the nonviolent, integrated stances those leaders suggested. I am not saying I concur to Douglass or King but I do comprehend that many other black people to adher to that philosophy which is one of many in the black populace in the usa. so, I think those that share your view Pioneer and you need to come together, and do something to functionalize that energy.

[Pioneer1]

richardmurray

 

I don't know. That is the wisest plus honest answer to your question.

 

I know you don't "know" for sure, but I ask do you BELIEVE this to be the case?
That generally speaking they feel that they are supreme over and better than people of other colors and that this belief in superiority feeds their egos and helps maintain the system????

 

 

 

 As an engineer,  a system of supremacy isn't worth much when it allows the people who are supposed to be supreme to be harmed. 

 

They consider them "sacrifices".
Indeed, a lot of Whites ALLOW themselves to be sacrificed to maintain that System.

 

 

Maybe you have the same definition of white is me, maybe you don't. but in your statement I quoted, below some of whom you suggest are not white I suggest are

"There are not only towns but ENTIRE REGIONS of the United States where it's almost all non-White Latinos and even a few nearly all Asian regions.
They aren't White....but White folks haven't stopped THEM for grouping together and doing their thing."

Notice how I said "non-White Latinos".
If I make a statement like that, it clearly suggests that I do consider some Latinos to be White racially speaking or I wouldn't have made that differentiation.  

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1 

19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I know you don't "know" for sure, but I ask do you BELIEVE this to be the case?

but isn't that the point. Our populace in the usa and the european colonies before it,  spent so much time, believing and not knowing. not planning with what is truly known but planning through assumption. WEBDubois believed/Frederick Douglass Believed/ MLK jr believed /  Booker t washington believed, and that belief was not from non black mind tricks but pure black intellectual thought. our people made choices in the past which guided our people to today, non black people were not completely responsible for today, no matter how machiavellan some of them think they are. I want to know. I want to act through knowing, not believing. I know some non blacks think they are superior to black folks and some work together , even in intricate schemes, but they all don't. 

 

19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

a lot of Whites ALLOW themselves to be sacrificed to maintain that System.

In my experience very few human beings allow themselves to ever be sacrificed. 

 

19 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If I make a statement like that, it clearly suggests that I do consider some Latinos to be White racially speaking or I wouldn't have made that differentiation.  

even enough , well said

[Pioneer1]

richardmurray

 

In my experience very few human beings allow themselves to ever be sacrificed. 

 

What about soldiers who sign up during times of war and offer their services and very lives for a nation or "cause"?

 

You can look over to the Middle East where there's no shortage of young men willing to sacrifice themselves for their particular cause.

 

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1 you said the  "allow themselves to be sacrificed", my comprehension of that phrase means that a person thinks they will be killed and accepts it. I assume you define "allow themselves to be sacrificed" as other?

[Pioneer1]

On 8/17/2025 at 9:48 PM, richardmurray said:

@Pioneer1 you said the  "allow themselves to be sacrificed", my comprehension of that phrase means that a person thinks they will be killed and accepts it. 

Isn't that the mentality of a lot of religious fanatics???
They feel that if they are killed in the name of their religion then they'll go to paradise and some believe they'll get virgins as a reward?

Others don't believe in religion but will sacrifice their life for their "families" or "patriotism".
Different people have different excuses but what they all have in common is their willingness to give up their lives for a cause they feel is greater than themselves.

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1

On 8/19/2025 at 6:57 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Isn't that the mentality of a lot of religious fanatics???
They feel that if they are killed in the name of their religion then they'll go to paradise and some believe they'll get virgins as a reward?

Others don't believe in religion but will sacrifice their life for their "families" or "patriotism".
Different people have different excuses but what they all have in common is their willingness to give up their lives for a cause they feel is greater than themselves.

The soldiers I have talked to never said they were knew they would die and embraced it. Did they realize they could die? yes, but they did not think they would die. It is a huge difference. Accepting the possibility of death is human, but assuming one self will die is something else. 

As for religious fanatics. I argue, religious fanatics have always thought that they wouldn't die ,but be saved from any negative fate by some form of divine.

yes humans are willing to put their lives on the lines for clan /family/government but most times that is a last resort not cause that was the plan from the beginning , it is a difference.

[Troy]

Suicide bombers, Kamikaze Pilot, religious zealots who chose to be burned at the stake than renounce their religion, everything you turn around someone else is burning themselves alive for a cause...  The first two engaged in a lot of planning...

 

There is no shortage of people willing "...to give up their lives for a cause they feel is greater than themselves." Wait, am I agreeing with @Pioneer1 

[Pioneer1]

richardmurray

What Troy said in his first sentence.

I was trying not to post the actual term for algorithmic purposes, but when I spoke of religious fanatics in the Middle East...I figured you'd understand who I was talking about.

They CLEARLY understand that they will die in their operations.
The expect to and desire to.




Troy & richardmurray

Funny we're talking about this because for the past few days I've been studying in depth the story of The Peoples Temple and Jim Jones and how he was able to trick so many Black folks into going down to South America and killing themselves.

 

 

 

 

[ProfD]

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Funny we're talking about this because for the past few days I've been studying in depth the story of The Peoples Temple and Jim Jones and how he was able to trick so many Black folks into going down to South America and killing themselves.

Religious figures followed by politicians dupe people far more easily than anybody else.

[Troy]

14 hours ago, ProfD said:

Religious figures followed by politicians dupe people far more easily than anybody else.

 

Sadly this is true. 

 

I'm thoroughly convinced the susceptibility to being brainwashed to join a cult, strap on a bomb, jump on the MAGA train, or exterminate Jews is genetic.  When the culture reenforced these notions it is a dangerous combination. 

[ProfD]

As social creatures, most human beings are wired to *join*, *follow*, *belong to* or *be a part of* something.   

 

The problem is when that *thing* is destructive or counter-productive and overrides a person's ability to think and/or reason independently.   

 

The deep end is strong adherence to religion, cults, political parties and anything else that leads people to their own demise.

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

Religious figures followed by politicians dupe people far more easily than anybody else
 

Many if not most of these people have something called "charisma".

 

I'm not talking about simply a way with words, but the REAL thing.

An almost magical energy that attracts love and support almost unconditionally.

 

When they discover they have this, they often use it to benefit and enrich themselves.


Religious leaders and politicians decided to take the LEGAL route to use their charisma, but some people with it choose a more criminal route and become pimps and gang leaders.
Either way, they use this gift to take advantage of people and enrich themselves in the process.

[ProfD]

8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Many if not most of these people have something called "charisma".

 

I'm not talking about simply a way with words, but the REAL thing.

An almost magical energy that attracts love and support almost unconditionally.

Sure. Charismatic people often draw others to them.

 

Most people who are *followers* are those who want to belong and/or are  *looking for something* they do not have within themselves.

 

IMO, the worst part of being a follower is when parents drag their children into whatever they're following.

 

An adult can jump off the train if they don't like the destination. A spouse or significant other can abort the mission and bounce. 

 

However, most children do not have the luxury of telling their parents that whatever they believe in and/or follow is some BS.

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

Most people who are *followers* are those who want to belong and/or are  *looking for something* they do not have within themselves.
 

I'd go as far as to say that most people PERIOD are "followers".
It's just that some are more sincere and dedicated than others.

Many of the ones who are very sincere and dedicated often end up joining cults and other organizations that take advantage of them.


 

IMO, the worst part of being a follower is when parents drag their children into whatever they're following.
 

Facts.
This is one of the great things about the United States.

Religion and culture in general aren't as strong or as strongly ingrained here as in other societies so most people are free to grow up and go their own way as soon as their ability to reason becomes more mature.

In many other societies, you don't have much of a choice BUT to follow a....in some cases failed.....tradition because it's all you know.

[ProfD]

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'd go as far as to say that most people PERIOD are "followers".

Right. There's no shortage of things for people to follow whether it is religion, politics, social media, sports, conspiracy theories, cults, organizations, etc.

 

[Pioneer1]

8 hours ago, ProfD said:

Right. There's no shortage of things for people to follow whether it is religion, politics, social media, sports, conspiracy theories, cults, organizations, etc.

 

This is because....as I wrote in another thread...most people join organizations to simply "belong" and be accepted.