African. Christians. African. American. Christians !!!

[harry brown]

Who. Is. Worse.   African.  Christians.  Or  African. American.  Christians. ?  The.  Slave.  Ships.   Went.  To. African.   Kidnapped.  Africans.   On. Slave.  Plantations    Bible. Used.  To. Support.  And. Control.     Slave.    Africans.  .. Generations.   After.  Generations.  Bible. Christianity.   Is.  Put.  Into.  Black. Communities.  ..There. Is. NO.  PROOF.   Bible.  Jesus.  Existed.  .   Both. Black.  Christians.   ,Here. And. In. Africa.  Believe. The. Bible. .And.  Worship.   White. Jesus.  With.  Blond. Hair. Blue.  Eyes.  ..Christianity.  Is. A.  Slave  Chain.  ..Both.   Places.  Controlled.  By. Racist.  Christian.  Terrorist.   !!   Black.  Preachers.  Are.  Slave. Holders.  And. Overseers. ..They. Enslave.   The. Minds.  Of. Black. People.  For  Money. ,,   Black.  People.   .     Pay. For. Their.  Enslavement.  . Every. Sunday. ..

[ProfD]

Worse is those who introduced the shackles of their religion to Black folks.

 

They fitted Black folks with those restraints a few hundred years ago. Breaking free will require a herculean effort. 

 

It is funny that the most powerful people in the world have little to no use for religion.

 

Politicians and rich folks will pander to religious folks for votes and/or to consume whatever they are *selling*.

 

Otherwise, rich and powerful are out in these streets making moves. They don't really believe or get caught up in sky fairies.

 

If Black folks broke the shackles and applied the same level of discipline and energy to wealth building as they do to religion, our people would be enjoying a higher level of peace, freedom and prosperity all over the planet.

[Pioneer1]

As I get wiser, I've noticed that very religious Christian Black people....whether they are AfroAmericans or Africans.....are often pleasant to be around because  atleast most of them TRY to do the right thing and live a peaceful life.

I'm not talking about those who are just NOMINALLY Christian, but those who are sincere in their beliefs and practices.


I don't agree with much of the philosophy obviously, but atleast I don't have to worry about most very religious Black folks whether they are African or AfroAmerican engaging in a lot of the self destructive behavior so many of our people who are NOT very religious engage in like alcohol and drug abuse and thuggish behavior.  Not all...or even most ( @richardmurray ......lol.) but too many.

So if following the teachings of Muhammad or Jesus will keep you from killing your brother, or fucking your brain and body up with drugs and liquor....stay the course.

As far as them being non-threatening to the White Power Structure......

Perhaps so, but how threatening are Black folks who disregard religion and turn into outlaws???

Often VERY threatening...to your own community.
If you aren't actively participating in the dismantling the System Of Racism, the LEAST you can do is not be a threat to your own community.

[ProfD]

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

As I get wiser, I've noticed that very religious Christian Black people....whether they are AfroAmericans or Africans.....are often pleasant to be around because  atleast most of them TRY to do the right thing and live a peaceful life.

They are obedient to and content with the system of racism white supremacy. 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

So if following the teachings of Muhammad or Jesus will keep you from killing your brother, or fucking your brain and body up with drugs and liquor....stay the course.

If religion keeps a person from being self-destructive, that's great.

 

Religion turning  people into sheep is bad.

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Perhaps so, but how threatening are Black folks who disregard religion and turn into outlaws???

Often VERY threatening...to your own community.

As mentioned in the other thread about scammers, the number of outlaws is small compared to the greater population.

 

Black men can manage the menaces to their community if/when they man up.

 

Correction doesn't always require violence and/or punishment. Sometimes it's just a matter of providing help.

 

IMO, one of the problems we have as Black men is expecting religion and law enforcement to raise, control and discipline our people.

[Pioneer1]

ProdD

 

They are obedient to and content with the system of racism white supremacy.

And so are the gangsta rappers and dope dealers who usually shun the church and religion in general.
However UNLIKE the gangsta rappers and dope dealers, old Aint Millie Mae and Aint Hattie Rae aren't shooting up the place or selling poison to the community.

They're selling them good tasting sweet potato pies and that turkey gizzard dressing to raise money for the church, lol.
 

"Whatcha say baaaabeh' ???

Can you marry me?

Boy I got grandkids older than you!

I KNOW you didn't just propose to me after tasting some of these ox tails!"

 

 

 

 

If religion keeps a person from being self-destructive, that's great.

Religion turning people into sheep is bad.

Being SHEEP isn't bad if all they're doing is keeping their head down and minding their own business and praising the Lord.

I put them in the same category as the Black politician who is only in it for him/herself BUT isn't doing anything to harm the community either.
Sure we'd like them to do more, but if they don't....atleast they aren't harming the community.
Sometimes you have to take what you can get.

 

 

 

 

 

Black men can manage the menaces to their community if/when they man up.

So....
 

What's the time frame looking like for this ????

 

[ProfD]

20 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

And so are the gangsta rappers and dope dealers who usually shun the church and religion in general.

Many of them were raised in the church. Upon realizing the hypocrisy and pimp game of it, they chose a different path. 

20 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

However UNLIKE the gangsta rappers and dope dealers, old Aint Millie Mae and Aint Hattie Rae aren't shooting up the place or selling poison to the community.

They will eventually end up in the penitentiary or cemetery.

 

Those Ainties will end up in the same cemeteries.

 

20 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

They're selling them good tasting sweet potato pies and that turkey gizzard dressing to raise money for the church, lol.

Their pastors will be paying his mortgage, car payments, clothes, shoes, jewels, vacations, etc. for his family and side pieces.

20 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

If religion keeps a person from being self-destructive, that's great.

Religion turning people into sheep is bad.

Being SHEEP isn't bad if all they're doing is keeping their head down and minding their own business and praising the Lord.

It is counter-productive to dismantling the system of racism white supremacy. 

 

20 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

I put them in the same category as the Black politician who is only in it for him/herself BUT isn't doing anything to harm the community either.

Enriching oneself while reinforcing the system of racism white supremacy is harmful to the community.

 

Politicians and religious leaders are selling a more destructive form of poison to their communities.

 

Mind control is the most powerful opiate on the planet.

 

20 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Black men can manage the menaces to their community if/when they man up.

So....

What's the time frame looking like for this ????

Unfortunately, Black men have ingested the poison of mind control too.

[Chevdove]

22 hours ago, harry brown said:

..There. Is. NO.  PROOF.   Bible.  Jesus.  Existed.  . 

 

LOL. Really?

 

Thank God for the Christian Movement!

People of African descent have too much hate towards other Black people and therefore, thanks to Jesus Christ the Christian Movement has open the door to offering Black people oppressed under such intense Black Hatred and Oppression a pathway out!

 

Even though the Holy Bible clearly defines Jesus as a Black man, here you have Black people claiming that he never existed. LOL. 

Even though the Holy Bible clearly reveals that when Jesus walked, he never had anything to do with the Gentiles, but lived and walked amongst

the Jews, but here you have Blacks today, claiming he never existed. LOL.

 

Even though the Holy Bible clearly reveals that every time a prophet embraced a Black skinned woman and his own Black 'race', the Creator was noted for elevating that prophet, but here you have Blacks today, that claim the Bible is not written for the edification of Black people.

 

LOL. 

 

+Moses and his Black wife

+David and his Black wife

+Solomon and his Black Virgin of whom he wrote an entire book about

+ Then comes Jesus and he tells Simon, 'I'm going to call you the Black Rock--Peter, and I am going to set my movement up on you. 

 

Thank God for Jesus and the Christian Movement. 

LOL.

 

8 hours ago, ProfD said:

sky fairies.

 

lol

 

 

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

They are obedient to and content with the system of racism white supremacy. 

 

Oh really? 

[Pioneer1]

 

ProfD

Many of them were raised in the church. Upon realizing the hypocrisy and pimp game of it, they chose a different path.

So did I.
But the path I chose lead to CONSTRUCTION....not DESTRUCTION.

 

 

 

They will eventually end up in the penitentiary or cemetery.
Those Ainties will end up in the same cemeteries

They may both end up at the same destination but those gangsta rappers and dope dealers are taking the EXPRESS Bus to it...lol.
 

Going STRAIGHT downtown....with very few stops along the way.....lol.

 

 

 

 

 

Their pastors will be paying his mortgage, car payments, clothes, shoes, jewels, vacations, etc. for his family and side pieces.

This may or may not be the case, depending on the pastor.
However when it comes to morality...the focus is on whether or not YOU did the right thing, regardless as to whether or not somebody did right BY you.

If I pass by a bum begging for money for food on the street and I give him $20......
I did the right thing regardless as to what he does with the money.
He can use it to by a rock of crack if he wants, but I still get "Karmic Credit" for giving charity.
 

 

 

 

It is counter-productive to dismantling the system of racism white supremacy.

I wouldn't call it "counter" productive because it doesn't counter or oppose the dismantling.
But it would be fair to call it "non" productive for dismantling the system.

However even THAT could be questioned, because just like I said about the Black politicians.....
If the ONLY good that comes out of some of these Black folks holding political offices is that they can collect a pay check and stay out of jail or off the corner or any other trap this system has set up....that's acceptable to.

Again, if it doesn't HARM the community.....we can't get mad at 'em.

Like Neely Fuller Jr. used to say, every VICTIM of The System has their own way of dealing with it.
Even if denying their victimhood is a way of dealing with it.
 

Enriching oneself while reinforcing the system of racism white supremacy is harmful to the community.

I agree.
If they are reinforcing the system.

 

 

 

 

 

Politicians and religious leaders are selling a more destructive form of poison to their communities.

Some are, yes.
Jasmine Crockett, Maxine Waters, and Minister Farrakhan are examples of politicians and religious leaders who aren't.

 

[richardmurray]

hahah @Pioneer1 namaste:) never all:)

 

In your experience it seems black people who are , what some call, devout, gardless to the religion they adhere to, fit a lifestyle model you accept as positive. ok

At the end of the day with the tens of millions of black people in the usa alone, the experiences black people have with religions or the religious, gardless of their adherences, is a wide thing. IT isn't hard to find a black person whose had a very negative experience with someone who calls themselves devout. Now you can argue, as you suggest in your comment, that the issue is who is devout who is in the spirit of a particular religion. But, I will argue history proves that argument, while honest, one that only manifest as an unending rabbit hole in terms of results. 

 

@ProfD

The fiscally wealthy rarely have a personal adherence of zeal for any religion... while they use the communal influence or financial halls of religious clerics and their places of worship to potent effects. The fiscally poor tend to have a personal adherence for a religion... while they rarely use the churchs halls or communal ability to improve their finances. 

Since you are a Statian I can see the logic of your separation of church and state position to the religiously devout in the black populace. 

But I don't think the answer needs to be exoduses from religion as much as changes into how the fiscal poor relate to religion. As any harlemite knows , harlem is full of churches, and every sunday all the black church members whose kin used to live in harlem and used church funds to aid their particular church group have a higher level of fiscal wealth, ala the Black one percent. But, the fiscal poor who will chagrin speaking ill of god and use the churches midweek, spend most of their time laboring, to make ends meet, to buy food, they don't use the church for non spiritual affairs. 

The fiscal poor need to embrace the church as a place of commerce, cause the fiscally wealthy arguably, use the church too much as a place of commerce, and yes I know jesus overthrew the money changers.. but, anyway

I end with, as you are also an individualist, your solutions speak to that line of thinking. but as I am a communalist, I have to say the clerics, preachers/pastors/imams are really most to blame over members of the flock, cause they have the power and have a better crowd to influence their financial behavior or how they live through various places of worship. 

And you have given me a good addiiton for an edition of the Economic Corner I am formulating, I have some others editions I have already written up completely but thank you.

 

@harry brown the questions of who is worse among the abused? who is worse among the inheritors of a negative culture? are valid for the history book but dysfunctional for getting results. 

The question is, how do religious populaces, gardless to the religion , improve their positive functionality internally plus externally? Specifically, to the global black village how do the black populaces in what I will call the six religious zones, improve: 

USa+Canada

South of the USA [Caribbean+Mexico+South America]

Continent [ Africa]

Asia [Iran to the Phillipines]

Europe

Australia+ Oceania

 

Blacks in Australia+Oceania , like the aborigine who are first peoples to australia while also black, don't have a religious issue simply because the abuse they have survived and are still under is quite potent. In my eyes, they are still in the enslaved phase of the Black history book.  PRe Slavery/Slavery[Complete and then Jim Crow]/Integration

The aborigine is in a Jim Crow phase. Yes, they are not completely enslaved but the shackles are there, australia mocks the aborigine as a free peoples. 

 

Blacks in Asia , like the habshi or kalo in india , the negrito who are also first peoples of asia while also black, the kokuchin in japan are in the jim crow phase. The problem with Black Asians in Asia is that outside White European power, they have to also deal with White Asian power so it is a double. Yes, they are not completely shackled in irons, but they are in late 1800s jim crow, which even by white european accounts was worse than complete enslavement. Yes even though slavery is illegal in jim crow [jim crow eras defining aspect], whites historically use legal means to make so many legal non physical shackles it is from a functional perspective harder. because while blacks can fight to illegalize slavery, it is hard illegalizing negatively engineered fiscal environments. 

 

Blacks in Africa are in the jim crow phase, the end of colonialization was the boundary in africa between the complete slavery phase and the jim crow slavery phase. But like in asia, Jim crow of africa is hard. Because yes, black countries exist but their entire design is a jim crow. And because of that, and the fact that unlike in the other continents where an integration era will eventually come, the next era after jim crow has to be a black power phase so it is very challenging to get from a jim crow country to a black power country.

 

South of the USA has a form of integration.  The legacy of the conquistador, the east india company, the caribbean black states, is south of the USA historically has been better for blacks in terms of opportunity, and arguably still is. BUt, south of the usa is very tied to the idea of clans, lineages. I argue if a black person has money south of the usa they will deal with less restrictions than in the usa. But, the black populace south of the USA never had the jim crow battle because they already had a form of the integration so once complete enslavement ended they were into said form of integration.

 

Europe never had a robust slavery phase. And because blacks are the most minor in Europe , they have a form of integration. The problem in Europe is unlike the USA which allows for individualism to bind varying peoples, European countries don't have that. And, they are also not in the same place culturally when it comes to multiracial situations. so, I argue europe is as good as it will get until the EU goes from an articles of confederation form to a constitution form. Right now the EU is an articles of confederation style so they have a union without military bite and absent the desire to bond tighter, and the USA doesn't help because Europeans like history and they can see that the constitution dwindled states cultures in the usa such that now, whereas each state in the usa was supposed to be self sufficient, they all are welfare states to the federal government in modernity so... 

 

The USA as First People lands before 1492 was pre slavery, from 1492 to 1980 in which the usa went from white european colonies to indepenent white european colonies in a egal union was the slavery era [ complete from 1492 to 1965 jim crow from 1965 to 1980] and then integration which is the only phase in which the usa existed at the beginning is from 1980 to today. 

 

So, what is my point? any slavery situation deletes the discussion between variants of black christians because black people are enslaved. So, of the six regions that leaves three. 

USA+Canada

Europe

South of the USA

 

Now in those three regions where does religion sit? 

In South of the USA , religion is powerful. Religious communities have real power. The separation of church and state does not exist, don't let anyone fool you. The zeal or fanatacism possible in South of the USA is the kind that burns the vestial virgins alive, if you know your Roman imperial history. So I will make south of the USA exempt from your argument, not cause black people are enslaved, but because the potency of religion is too strong to treat like something that can be easily bent or allow for peaceful discourse.

 

In Europe, the french would say the religion of the state has replaced religions and this is  a parademographic truth. part demograph, image of the people, truth. what do i mean? The sad reality of religion in Europe is immigrants brought a fervor to religion that has hurt  the religion of the state. One of the most negative legacies or heritages of the white european imperial era which I argue we are at the end of is the religiosity in humanity.  White european empires [muslim + christian] forced religion onto those they conquered , used religion to control those they conquered, even before they conquered them or after they lost total control such that religion is embedded in many human populaces. Such that when they immigrated to europe,  they were never going to join the religion of the state. Now, in time I think the religion of the state will win out, but it needs more time in europe. to that end, blacks in england and france whose bloodlines were before the second white european imperial war commonly called world war 2  tended to mulatto themselves such that they are usually disconnected to the post world war 2 immigrant populaces whose quantity allowed for a maintenance of phenotype. So in europe, the equivalent to Black DOSers are smaller in quantity but also have become a mulatto demographic. they are like the coloreds in south africa, not white or black but at this time their own branch. So the religious of the modern black immigrants are only amongst themselves , they don't have descended of enslaved variant in Europe of any significant size.

 

LAstly, that leaves the USA:) 

So after eliminating three because black people in said regions are still enslaved. One through the religious environment not allowing for a religious tolerances. One through the lack of a comparable Black Descended of Enslaved populace, it leaves the USA+ Canada. In the USA + Canada who are worse adherents of religion Black Descended of Enslaved of Black Modern Immigrants post 1965 ?

Honestly I don't think either can stand on a hill above the other. But how can both improve , I have some ideas. 

What they both have in common is a big place in their community. 

The reality is the Black 1% in the USA today are tied to churches. It isn't an accident that Obama was a member of a church in his rise. Nearly all Black DOSers or Black people with influence in the DOS part of the black populace in the usa has some ties to a black church. 

The reality is the Black 1% in each country in Africa are tied to religious groups. Every knows if you want something done, go to the religious groups in any African country and that will help gets things quicker than the fiscal marketplace. Build a church, build a mosque and the pastors or imams will find allies for your cause through the bureaucracy of the country. 

It isn't an accident that Malcolm + MLK were never the leaders of the most prominent organizations representing their particular religious molds: the nation of islam + the southern black christian leadership conference. 

IT was because malcolm + MLK had a pan black view to the black populace even as men who were both preachers to a particular religion, even though their backgrounds were quite varied. MAlcolm was the son of a Garveyite Christian Homesteader. The Black Homesteaders were about owning land, but also isolation from whites. Not total separation but isolation, they didn't trust integrated communities, and the Garveyites were the best black financial movement in Black history in the USA or the white european colonies that preceded it. So Malcolm came from a pan black communal financial independence heritage. The nation of islam was and is an isolationist religious group within the black populace. If you are not a member of the nation of islam, even while black, the nation of islam probably will not help you. 

MLK was a nepo baby, the son of the son of a preacher, the wealthiest black family in the local region. We blacks forget that the black church in each black community in the the usa was usually the fiscal center or fiscal wealthiest. Adam Clayton Powell jr, Abysinnian BAptist Church has the oldest Black money in harlem. Their eldership is a very powerful group. Remember the elders of the Abysinnian Baptist Church told Adam CLayton Powell jr who was the son of a preacher who was the son of a preacher at the same church that he had to stop his wife Hazel scott from touring and making more money than him and even though he was a member of the house of representatives, he did what they said and hael scott... battled but eventually gave in to the pressures. But MLK gardless of his background, didn't embrace the bootstrap, I got mine get yours, blacks are hurting blacks more philosophies that many or most black pastors had and maybe still have today. 

Sequentially, MAlcolm nor MLK were ever head of the most important organizations in guiding the larger religious communities they were the face of. 

So, I see two issues with Black religious groups whether Descended of enslaved or modern immigrant in the USA. 

1. They have to both be about Pan Black, helping another black person has to not be contingent on them joining your church or mosque. ... I will even add the Black Jews as another who have a very proselytizing position. When you look at Historical Black Colleges, or the financially wealthy black churches it is clear, they don't mind helping black as long as black is a member. That has to change, and change from within... so... 

2. They have to also be brave. I haven't yet found the list of black church leaders who voted on what the black church should emit to the larger black populace in the fist few years after the war between the states ended. I heard it was one vote that led to the black church going nonviolent, but the historical value is clear regardless of the exact names of the people or their scenarios. The stance to integration the black church had since 1865 wasn't the most positive functional stance black people needed before 1980. I argue the homesteaders strategy was the most positive functional stance for the black churches to take pre 1980, but...I also know that Frederick Douglass , Ida B Well and others weren't keen on homesteading. They wanted to integrate. and so it was an internal battle in the black populace and the black side that favored what was safer about whites won over the side that favored what was better for blacks. Nothing is easy, it is cheap to judge from 2025 on 1865 so I will not suggest cowardice or the simplicity of hindsight on them. But, the results are here.  The black places of worship have to be brave. And lets be blunt, the history of the USA proves, many Blacks or non Blacks in the USA talk a big talk about adhering to the law , and bootstraps until they are financially needy and then they show their true colors and kill and cheat and harm many others for their sole gain. And if they don't get caught and find financial footing go right back to their adhering to the law feces. Again,  The black places of worship have to be brave.

I never forget all sharpton saying that when he started his movement various black groups came about looking to swing him their way, he chose the nonviolent integration path through influence from coretta scott king, but to his credit he didn't say the other paths were wrong, he said he made a choice. 

 

[Pioneer1]

 

richardmurray

In your experience it seems black people who are , what some call, devout, gardless to the religion they adhere to, fit a lifestyle model you accept as positive. ok

I didn't say "gardless" or "Regardless" of their religion...lol.

I specified CHRISTIANS.
There are Muslims who are devout who believe in KILLING people who disbelieve or reject the faith.
Most Hebrew Israelites tend to be very devout and quite HOSTILE to people who disbelieve in their faith also.

That's not to say there aren't Christians who believe in doing the same thing, but among most AfroAmericans....most devout AfroAmerican Christians aren't violent.

Hey brutha Rich, if you don't mind my asking...how old are you?

 

[Troy]

21 hours ago, ProfD said:

If Black folks broke the shackles and applied the same level of discipline and energy to wealth building as they do to religion, our people would be enjoying a higher level of peace, freedom and prosperity all over the planet.

That is an understatement.

 

12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

He can use it to by a rock of crack if he wants, but I still get "Karmic Credit" for giving charity.

Hummm that doesn’t sound right there are many ways to benefit a person than directly giving the money which has a high likelihood of being spent on crack. Why should you get Karmic credit for that? Why am I even arguing the point of this? As if there is some type of cosmic justice

@richardmurray do you type all of your responses from a computer keyboard? They are very long. I was just curious I dictate most of mine, including this one. it’s far from perfect.