My Tribe vs Yo Tribe

[Pioneer1]

Ok @richardmurray let me see if I got this straight......

Among Black people, you say there are 2 main "tribes" here in the U.S. :

-The Black "DOSers"

-The Black "Statians"


Or are there more?


Lol.....and which tribe does Cynique aka The Contrarian fit in to?

 

[richardmurray]

  

@Pioneer1

Ending black history month with thoughtfulness:) hope #black327 is very eventful 

 

I have confused you. 

Black Americans is the root, these are all black peoples in the usa, gardless of ancestry, language, religion, this is all about the skin. 

Black Americans in the USA today is composed of two main groups, populaces not tribes. 

Black DOSers- descended of enslaved black folk which also includes those who willingly immigrated into the usa before the 1960s,  like MArcus Garvey for example

+ 

Black modern immigrants - black people who willingly immigrated to the usa when Blacks achieved in the USA complete legal federal recognition which was with the Civil Rights Act of  immigration act of 1964 and who came after the immigration act of 1965.  Yes, black people did freely immigrate into the USA before 1964 or 1965 but before then the federal legal rights of Black people in the usa were simply not in any way even to whites. Now states laws would take time to change but by the end of the jim crow era, 1980, they did. 

Black Modern immigrants tribes are based on the countries they come from: jamaican/panamanian/south african/nigerian/indian/brasilian either their country is majority black and so they come from a tribe in their country of their country has a name for the black minority. 

Black DOSers have three tribes from the creation of the USA  and none are based on geography , all are based on a philosophy toward the usa or the whites in it. 

Black Statians are black people who embrace the USA as their home, gardless of whites activity, gardless of the historic reality, gardless of most black peoples views towards the usa or the whites in it. . James Forten for example. WAs a businessman, fought for the USA, was a prisoner of war, and all of this is while over 90% of black people in the colonies were completely enslaved, and most who got freedom fought against the USA, yet he held firm. Black Statians are not about being in the majority, it is about the usa as their home , gardless of anything else. 

Black Militants - I want to say a caveat, militancy is really about wanting to go to war. But Black Militants are really about trust. Black Militants don't trust/will never trust the usa or whites of the usa and want the earned revenge. Now the earliest black militants fought for the english, whites, not because they trust whites, but because they distrust white statians the most, and want revenge. 

Black Freefolk- I use this term because, what many people don't seem to comprehend is when the USA was founded, over ninety percent of black people were enslaved to whites. What does that mean? That means when the USA was founded over ninety percent of blacks, had no allegiance or caring for the USA or for whites, so they weren't statians, even though many of them them or most their lineage would only know the usa as a home, it had no connection to them. But they weren't militants. Yes, they hated whites but they didn't want revenge, they only wanted away from whites. All they wanted was to be as far away from the colonies or the later USA or white people as possible. In them you find the back to africa movement, which at is heart to trying to get black people as far away from whites or the usa. Their influence is what made in combination side black statians the exoduster movement, which at its heart is an agreement between black statians + black freefolk. Essentially, one group says they embrace the usa, the other group says, they want as far away from the usa or the whites in it. So the middle ground is places as far away from whites in the usa. The problem is, white people historically, don't like black people to be undisturbed by whites wherever we live. whether an urban black region or a black town, whites have a heritage of negative meddling with blacks. Another subtribe for the the black freefolk are those Leaving the USA [which for the record always goes on among black DOSers every year, yes it has never bee n a majority act but people forget whites historically hated black people who spoke of leaving the usa. From most whites perspectives, histoorically, they wanted black people to embrace being enslaved as a positive, for white financial betterment... ]. Another subtribe are black individualism. It makes sense to me. how Black people descended from enslaved people who had nothing to do with the creation of the usa and were descended from people who wanted nothing to do with the usa or the white people in it would see themselves as individuals. Embracing a hard truth that, the usa is nothing to them , but since fate has placed them here, they just live, not because they are comfortable or love whites, but simply because like the ninety percent of our forebears enslaved in the usa when it was founded , they have no where to go or nothing to be apart communally. The slave quarter isn't a communal zone, it is pig pen for humans, so if the usa is merely  a huge pig pen in a black person's mind, they why should they think communally. 

For me, I don't know either of you well enough to be sure of anything . But based on communications in this forum, I think, cynique like yourself are Black Statians, the tribe in the populace of Black DOSers.   Both of you embrace the USA. 

You pioneer seem to have an exoduster mentality. You embrace the usa, part of you loves it. But what you want for its future is black solidarity + safety in the usa, not as indiivduals in a hyper mixed brew but in specific locals. It isn't impossible, to reach what you want. Nothing is easy. 

Cynique it seems, has a James Forten philosophy. She embraces not only the usa but the idea its white enslaving founders suggested , a country of humans, individuals who embrace the idea that each individual should be treated equally. Frederick Douglass/MLK jr/Barrack Obama all live their lives with this idea, started from James Forten's or similars example. Arguably, Black Statians like Cynique are closest to achieving their goal. because Black Statians like her were by default most willing to work with whites, they benefited them in the usa, where whites only started allowing the majority of the black populace equal status, 1980. to be blunt, if you aren't willing to work with whites pre 1980, while you live in the usa, you essentially have nothing. As black DOSers forebears were enslaved so they could provide no fiscal inheritance and as all know, over ninety percent of wealth in the usa is inheritance.  Very few whites are willing to work with blacks who want away. Yes, Back to Africa movements occurred in the usa , but their white financiers were never representing a majority of whites. 

So, For me, both of you are Black Statians. 

 

The key for you to comprehend is Black DOSers relationship to the usa is historically not financial, it is pure philosophy, or vendetta based. This is why Black Modern Immigrants fit in so well with the USA, because their relationship is like all non blacks who aren't indigenous. It is, a financial desire to make money, to be better off. But, Black DOSers didn't originally have that desire, and even in 1865, when the enslavement era ends and jim crow begins. Black DOSers didn't come into the Jim Crow era thinking I want to be apart of the USA. Black Freefolk historically had to be convinced of the merit of the USA which many Black Statians have always had problems with ., ala the similarity of Frederick Douglass/MLK jr/ Barrack Obama who arguably all spent the latter years of their most potent time disliked by most Black DOSErs. Which makes sense, because Black Statians by default, embrace the usa no matter what. So faced with Black people with the same experiences who don't accept it at all, or who need convincing when whites make that nearly impossible, outside of faith based, it becomes a natural divide no bridge can cross. 

 

 

 

[aka Contrarian]

I'm not really sure nor do I even care what tribe I belong to anymore.  I can't even keep it straight what the letters stand for. I would simply say that when it comes to black folks, my first loyalty is to the unadulterated truth, and let the chips fall where they may.

The only way I would currently distinguish myself is to declare that my dislike for Trump and everything he represents is so intense that it's palpable, and I have nothing but utter contempt for black Conservative MAGAs.

If whatever this reveals about me is true, then - so be it.

                        zzzzzz

    

[Pioneer1]

richardmurray

 

I have confused you. 

 

Confusion is founded in belief.

Whether it's the WRONG belief or the frustration that comes from believing in MULTIPLE things that contradict eachother...lol.

But if a person doesn't actually believe what you're saying to begin with and questions it or looks for a better understanding of it BEFORE they believe it....then you aren't confusing them, lol.

 

 

 

 

Black Americans is the root, these are all black peoples in the usa, gardless of ancestry, language, religion, this is all about the skin. 

Lol @ "gardless"

 

 

 

 

Black Americans in the USA today is composed of two main groups, populaces not tribes. 
Black DOSers- descended of enslaved black folk which also includes those who willingly immigrated into the usa before the 1960s,  like MArcus Garvey for example

So DOSers are a "populace" and not a "tribe"....ok.

 

 

 

Black Modern immigrants tribes are based on the countries they come from: jamaican/panamanian/south african/nigerian/indian/brasilian either their country is majority black and so they come from a tribe in their country of their country has a name for the black minority.

 

But these aren't tribes, they are nationalities...right?

 

 

 

 

Black DOSers have three tribes from the creation of the USA  and none are based on geography , all are based on a philosophy toward the usa or the whites in it. 

So under the DOSer populace, you have 3 "tribes"

-Black Statians
-Black Militants
-Black Freefolk

 

Which one are YOU, btw....?

 

And under the Black Immigrant populace you have a number of so-called "tribes", is that correct?

 

 

For me, I don't know either of you well enough to be sure of anything . But based on communications in this forum, I think, cynique like yourself are Black Statians, the tribe in the populace of Black DOSers.   Both of you embrace the USA. 

 

Is there any way I can have her ass PUT OUT of my tribe?

Who do I talk to about that?

 

[richardmurray]

@Pioneer1 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

So DOSers are a "populace" and not a "tribe"....ok.

right, all DOSers have forebears enslaved to whites but ... for me, a tribe is a group with a purpose. Not all DOSers have the same purpose.

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

But these aren't tribes, they are nationalities...right?

yes, jamaican in itself is a nationality, but in the context of Black Americans <Black Modern Immigrants< Jamaicans/South Africans/Sri Lankans/or other national labels are black people from one of said countries who live in the usa today and coalesce with others from the country they are from. All Non Black Americans or non first people fit that mold. ITlaian american/japanese american/jamaican american. The USA naturally lends to people free in it from countries coalescing with others from whatever country they are from. 

Because DOSers+ First Peoples have another original relationship to the usa compared to the rest of the people in the usa who are willing immigrants from some government outside the usa, they don't have the same way.

It isn't a problem, just a reality.

This is what whites are learning. Some whites in the usa didn't realize that as more and more other white nationalities enter the white american populace in modernity , they will bring another view towards blacks not dominated by the white anglo saxon protestant so to speak, and so these other whites wish for white power, wish to help their own, but aren't as interested in white absolute power. NYC is the proof. to be blunt, many people in the past suggested the usa is all about money, but it wasn't because all too often whites hurt their own ability to make money by their actions, even if they didn't realize it. But, in modernity, in the usa, making money truly has become the common standard and it welcomes all races, and wants a superior position over all heritages which not only includes black music's relationship to black people but also the white power heritage that was the engine of jim crow, which can't get  the same numbers it used to.

A Billy Eckstine, a NAt King Cole today would be very fiscally wealthy with all their white european fans + global fanbase in general. What happened to both of them can't happen in the usa today. A black artists who has committed no illegality or even crime while being the best in the industry , can't be blockaded from profit just to block the image of a black person. 

So.... nationalities in the global scheme of things, but in terms of Black Americans a tribe, mostly of people who , as you correctly state, don't go back because of the amenities of the usa. 

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

So under the DOSer populace, you have 3 "tribes"

-Black Statians
-Black Militants
-Black Freefolk

 

Which one are YOU, btw....?

 

And under the Black Immigrant populace you have a number of so-called "tribes", is that correct?

yeah, in my assessment. 

functionally, functionally defined as how my life has been lived, I am a free folk. Even though I have negative experiences involving whites personally as well as in my lineage, detailed events not the de facto my forebears were enslaved, and I don't deny thinking of assaulting whites from time to time, I have never embraced the usa nor do I live my life to kill whites or get revenge for any past crimes by whites to me or my lineage. 

I want out, but I admit I want out my way. 

Am I selfish  or risky? yes both labels are honest to the way I Want out 

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

Is there any way I can have her ass PUT OUT of my tribe?

Who do I talk to about that?

funny, I don't think you should want her out, like yourself, she is good people. 

[aka Contrarian]

@Pioneer1It figures that after your inept attempt to discredit and ridicule everything richardmurray had to say, you would then stupidly seek his advice on having me "put out of your tribe". 

Not to worry. As a seeker of the absolute truth, I am automatically disqualified from belonging to any tribe made up of lying, assisinine, windbags like you.

Feel better now?

[frankster]

We  all  Africans.... Some of us are Black Africans

 

We black Africans....here in the West

Some came free on ships...

Some of us been here before the slave ships.....

Some of us came here on slave ships....

Some of us came here after the slave ships...

Some of us came here on planes..

 

All this is but an attempt to further create disunity in the Black African community....Pan - African

Manmade borders and philosophys cannot blind me to the recognition of who is my brother in Suffering(black people) and in Struggle(all peoples regardless of race or ethnicity so long as they fight to end oppression in all it forms) whether they know or recognize it or not.

[aka Contrarian]

3 hours ago, frankster said:

We  all  Africans.... Some of us are Black Africans

 

We black Africans....here in the West

Some came free on ships...

Some of us been here before the slave ships.....

Some of us came here on slave ships....

Some of us came here after the slave ships...

Some of us came here on planes..

 

You neglected to mention that here in the West, some of us were born here via slavery.

Yes, Africa is our common denominator but that apparently is not enough to make an impact.

I agree that finding other commonalities like being oppressed is the best any group of people can do when it comes to unity.

[richardmurray]

@frankster 

what you speak is what James Forten/ Frederick Douglass/ MLK jr/Barrck Obama said in more words or more eloquently or in how they lived their life. 

But their lives prove that other humans are not always in concurrence to that standing. and that is my point. I don't speak of tribes because it is the most positive plus effective end, the most effective end for humans is to treat all life on earth with the same love or consideration each human will want to themselves, but that isn't how humanity operates. 

 

@aka Contrarian

yes, i think that in the population of the usa is already brewing a people who will functionalize your way [or at least try to] , the way many other black people in the usa today adhere to, what the raping slaver thomas jefferson wrote, what black people like james forten/frederick douglass/mlk jr lived their entire lives fighting for even when most black people opposed them. what barrack obama tried to uphold even though the needs of the usa in the immediate term warranted another way. 

 

[frankster]

15 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

You neglected to mention that here in the West, some of us were born here via slavery.

True....Here is the thing

Those who are born Here  are descendants....of all who came - maters not when or how they came

Slavery or Colonialism two sides of the same Coin....That is the Theory and Pratice of White Supremacy

None escape the ravages of Racism....

 

15 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

Yes, Africa is our common denominator but that apparently is not enough to make an impact.

True....

That is so.....because we have yet to overcome and uproot the indoctrination of self hate.

 

15 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

I agree that finding other commonalities like being oppressed is the best any group of people can do when it comes to unity.

To struggle against Injustice is Righteouness

2 hours ago, richardmurray said:

@frankster 

what you speak is what James Forten/ Frederick Douglass/ MLK jr/Barrck Obama said in more words or more eloquently or in how they lived their life. 

True...all of them are our  Savior

 

2 hours ago, richardmurray said:

But their lives prove that other humans are not always in concurrence to that standing. and that is my point.

Yes...such is always the case

 

2 hours ago, richardmurray said:

don't speak of tribes because it is the most positive plus effective end, the most effective end for humans is to treat all life on earth with the same love or consideration each human will want to themselves, but that isn't how humanity operates. 

The problem is Ignorance that then becomes Arrogance

Chiefly manifesting itself in some people believeing that they are more deserving than others