Pioneer1 Posted March 15 Report Posted March 15 In a conversation with richardmurray over so many Black women dying their hair blonde THINKING that this somehow makes them more beautiful or attractive, the issue of their freedom to do so....to dye their hair whatever color they please....came up. While I wouldn't take that right away from them. I do think that one of the major key elements for improving our community and repairing the psychological damage that has been done to our community over the centuries is promoting true Black love and Black pride. White society.....through it's media, educational system, and even religious art.....has taught AfroAmericans both directly and indirectly to hate themselves and the way they look and associate dark skin, kinky hair, and dark hair with being ugly and demonic. Instead of ignoring this and letting our community randomly evolve or devolve in any direction, we should have been more pro-active in REVERSING THE HYPNOSIS...as Lauryn Hill would say...and directly countered that racist brainwashing and programing by promoting dark skin and dark hair in OUR entertainment, media publications, and educational curriculum. The only half-way effort we made in this regard was occasionally painting Jesus and some of the other religious figures as Black. However that was only one step in a long journey. The Afros and "naturals" of the late 60s and 70s should have only been the beginning of a self-love campaign....not just a fad to be mocked. Dark skinned AfroAmerican celebrities with strong African features should be celebrated above and beyond White or even light AfroAmericans celebrities in our community. Is this colorism? Perhaps....but it's the type of colorism that is needed to again...reverse the hypnosis. In 2026 I should see not just White people....but Black people in tanning booths trying to get DARKER. In 2026 I should see Black people dying their hair.....not blonde or red...but BLACK. We should have had programs in place to counter the racist conditioning decades ago.
ProfD Posted March 15 Report Posted March 15 There have been short-lived movements that promoted Black love & pride. Back in the 1970s, James Brown & Muhammad Ali were heavy promoters of Black love & pride. Movies were made featuring Black folks in our own natural looks, fashion, speech & flavor. The Native Tongues (Jungle Brothers, A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul) & Public Enemy, KRS-One, Brand Nubian, Nas, Gang Starr, Common, The Roots, & many others within the Hip-Hop commmunity were Pro-Black. Same goes for R&B artists like D'Angelo, Angie Stone, Meshell NdegeOcello, Jill Scott, Lauryn Hill, India.Arie, etc. TV shows & movies have been made showing Black beauty & love & pride. The argument can be made that FBA/AfroAmericans have done far more especially through entertainment & education to promote Black love & pride. Surely, we see Black women lightening themselves with cosmetics & dyeing their hair & wearing wigs. In fairness, Black women have been doing this for many decades. It isn't new. Colorism started way back on the slave plantations. Centuries of conditioning & programming. Gonna take a long time to undo.
Chevdove Posted March 15 Report Posted March 15 5 minutes ago, ProfD said: Colorism started way back on the slave plantations. Centuries of conditioning & programming. Gonna take a long time to undo. I agree, it's going to take a long time to undo. And I applaud all of the efforts too, that have been made to this goal. But here is an observation that I see no matter how I try to ignore it; it seems that everything positive that has occurred, there has been a sneaky underlying effort to mock us and attack us, bit by bit and then change and reverse the effort and mostly; downgrade it to a ridiculous event that may not be recognized right away. Let me give you an example of what I mean. In your first comment you said: 9 minutes ago, ProfD said: There have been short-lived movements that promoted Black love & pride. And so, no matter how I try to ignore my intuitions and no matter how I try to make myself believe that I am reading to much into it, I still have this lingering thought. The word that you used 'pride' has been systematically exploited, in my opinion, and this is not a light matter. This 'Black Pride Movement' occurred a few decades ago, and now look!!! This world has been used to promote a global movement among people of African descent and then made to be associated with the entire western and European world!!! Now, the term 'PRIDE' has been attached to a flag, globally. So now, no matter what, when I think of 'Black Pride' I immediately think about the 1960s and today's Homosexual Movement simultaneously. This government took the late Jesse Jackson's movement and merged it with the Homosexual Movement. No, this was not a coincidence, IMO, this was deliberate. Do I have a problem with this Homosexual Movement headed up by Barack Obama? No I do not. But I do have a problem with Black Americans not dealing with the origins of it and in how it was put upon us during Chattel Slavery times. We are the product of rape here in America. Why is this not being addressed?
Chevdove Posted March 15 Report Posted March 15 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Dark skinned AfroAmerican celebrities with strong African features should be celebrated above and beyond White or even light AfroAmericans celebrities in our community. I gotta tell you, I am a little indifferent about this issue. I do not believe that down playing light skinned African Americans is the right thing to do altogether. I believe that we should highlight dark skinned AfroAmerican celebrities more and more, but we should never suppress lighter skinned ones at all. I don't think that we should give into that kind of programming at all. There have been so many times that, had it not have been for lighter skinned AfroAmericans that stood against racism, I would not be here today. We don't need to push down one group to highlight another. Let us do both at the same time. Let's work together. However, when it comes to racism and perhaps certain venues, then yes, it may be a good choice to select a darker skinned person for a specific cause. If a lighter skinned Sista is more brilliant than a darker one, may the best one be elevated, and not based on skin color, but how that person shines in all of her features. If a light skinned Brother is better than a darker one, well, they are both 'Black men' and may the best one be put forth to represent our cause. But yes, when it comes to representation as a whole, the percentage of light skinned versus darker skinned needs to be addressed. Something is wrong, if we are seeing more light skinned than dark skinned people being elevated. But many times, dark skinned people hide their issues with Colorism within and that can be just as bad or even worse. For example, some of the celebrities that you even posted have married White people and so, wouldn't that be counter productive in defining our 'race' without the issue of White Supremacy? And what about the Black beauties that have gotten older and show no sign of getting married and having children. How does that ideal promote our culture? You know, I think education is a major key in the improvement of our existence. I think blonde hair is a beauty trait, but many of us have no idea of its origin. I think that we have been made to think it is a White trait and therefore obsess over it, but education is key. IMO, to see someone, Black or dark skinned with blonde hair, or grey hair, or White hair, meaning, light colored hair, might be a huge compliment in how they look. So it's not that it is negative, but it is how we have been made to think that it is a White trait.
Pioneer1 Posted March 15 Author Report Posted March 15 ProfD There have been short-lived movements that promoted Black love & pride. Back in the 1970s, James Brown & Muhammad Ali were heavy promoters of Black love & pride. Movies were made featuring Black folks in our own natural looks, fashion, speech & flavor. The Native Tongues (Jungle Brothers, A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul) & Public Enemy, KRS-One, Brand Nubian, Nas, Gang Starr, Common, The Roots, & many others within the Hip-Hop commmunity were Pro-Black. Same goes for R&B artists like D'Angelo, Angie Stone, Meshell NdegeOcello, Jill Scott, Lauryn Hill, India.Arie, etc. TV shows & movies have been made showing Black beauty & love & pride. I am grateful for the messages that these celebrities and artists sent, however it still isn't enough. There's a difference between what they're calling Black love/pride...and TRUE love of African Blackness. What they're expressing is just a love and appreciating for AfroAmerican culture and it's various flavors. But it still doesn't do much to reverse the self-hatred that has been ingrained in the psyche of Black America. It's like celebrating the institution of marriage and how marvelous it is....without addressing the physical abuse the some spouses inflict upon eachother. The argument can be made that FBA/AfroAmericans have done far more especially through entertainment & education to promote Black love & pride. We've done more than nearly any other Black community on this planet to, in recent history. However in my opinion, we STILL haven't done enough. It hasn't been persistent or consistent. We did a lot in the 60s and 70s to promote Black love and Black pride but then the next few generations got bored with it and moved on. But guess what? The White racists haven't gotten bored and moved on. They are STILL on their agenda of promoting their White supremacist ideology and are training a new generation to do the same. So you're back to seeing Black people as the first to die in Hollywood movies again, Jesus and David and other religious characters being portrayed as White again, and using terms like "dark day" and "dark mood" being popularized again after we pointed out how psychologically racists those terms were. Surely, we see Black women lightening themselves with cosmetics & dyeing their hair & wearing wigs. In fairness, Black women have been doing this for many decades. It isn't new. Colorism started way back on the slave plantations. Centuries of conditioning & programming. Gonna take a long time to undo. Facts. And either we're serious about undoing it...or we're not. We can NOT be serious about it and just say "black love" mockingly with a sly grin on our face as we go about our daily business, but just be prepared to face the consequences of this indifference for generations to come. Black women dying their hair blonde and our people getting "processes" and Jheri curls is just the type of the iceberg. The desire to marry outside of our race and have children that don't look like us in hope that they will have a better life will be one of the end results.
Pioneer1 Posted March 15 Author Report Posted March 15 Chev And so, no matter how I try to ignore my intuitions and no matter how I try to make myself believe that I am reading to much into it, I still have this lingering thought. The word that you used 'pride' has been systematically exploited, in my opinion, and this is not a light matter. This 'Black Pride Movement' occurred a few decades ago, and now look!!! This world has been used to promote a global movement among people of African descent and then made to be associated with the entire western and European world!!! Now, the term 'PRIDE' has been attached to a flag, globally. So now, no matter what, when I think of 'Black Pride' I immediately think about the 1960s and today's Homosexual Movement simultaneously. This government took the late Jesse Jackson's movement and merged it with the Homosexual Movement. No, this was not a coincidence, IMO, this was deliberate. Do I have a problem with this Homosexual Movement headed up by Barack Obama? No I do not. But I do have a problem with Black Americans not dealing with the origins of it and in how it was put upon us during Chattel Slavery times. We are the product of rape here in America. Why is this not being addressed? Dang....it took you half a page just to get around to saying THAT??? Lol...I agree with you. I thought that was where you were going....but it seemed as if you started there, then went into another direction, then came back, then left again, and then finally said that the LGBT movement stole our symbols and terms from our movement with the "rainbow" and the "pride". Not only that. I notice a lot of gay White men call themselves mocking Black women when they get "sassy" and wiggle their heads and say "gurl" to eachother. They are taking AfroAmerican culture and attempting to ridicule it by attaching it to the degenerate aspect of their community. I gotta tell you, I am a little indifferent about this issue. I do not believe that down playing light skinned African Americans is the right thing to do altogether. I believe that we should highlight dark skinned AfroAmerican celebrities more and more, but we should never suppress lighter skinned ones at all. I don't think that we should give into that kind of programming at all. There have been so many times that, had it not have been for lighter skinned AfroAmericans that stood against racism, I would not be here today. I understand where you're coming from. We don't want to denigrate or play down our lighter skinned brothers and sisters or cause more division in our community. I myself am what most would consider light skinned....although not high yellow, lol. However sometimes a very aggressive COUNTER has to be done to reverse and BALANCE generations of unfairness and injustice. You can't balance out hundreds of years of White and light skinned being praised and promoted with a few decades of applying everything equally. Some wounds are so deep and severe that you must apply medicine in them in order for them to properly heal. We don't need to push down one group to highlight another. Let us do both at the same time. Let's work together. However, when it comes to racism and perhaps certain venues, then yes, it may be a good choice to select a darker skinned person for a specific cause. The same argument could be made by Whites regarding Reparations. No need to give one more than the other. No need to elevate one over the other. Let's all just "be the same" now and start over. But that doesn't repair the damage done. If a lighter skinned Sista is more brilliant than a darker one, may the best one be elevated, and not based on skin color, but how that person shines in all of her features. If a light skinned Brother is better than a darker one, well, they are both 'Black men' and may the best one be put forth to represent our cause. But yes, when it comes to representation as a whole, the percentage of light skinned versus darker skinned needs to be addressed. Something is wrong, if we are seeing more light skinned than dark skinned people being elevated. But many times, dark skinned people hide their issues with Colorism within and that can be just as bad or even worse. Again, the same thing can be said with racism in general. Some Whites will make the same argument about Black people being jealous of them or even accuse them of being racist when we point out the generations of injustice and favoritism that was bestowed upon them. The resentment dark skinned people feel is a REACTION to the generation of mistreatment and unfairness they've had to endure, especially in their childhood. One of the reasons why many of our Civil Rights leaders in the AfroAmerican community have been light skinned is because our people tend to praise and elevate those WITH light skin more than others. Listen to them and respect them more. Light skinned people often love the AfroAmerican community because they GOT so much love from the AfroAmerican community where as when they go among Whites....they are treated like "any other nigga". That light skinned affords them no privilege there. I think blonde hair is a beauty trait, but many of us have no idea of its origin. I think that we have been made to think it is a White trait and therefore obsess over it, but education is key. IMO, to see someone, Black or dark skinned with blonde hair, or grey hair, or White hair, meaning, light colored hair, might be a huge compliment in how they look. So it's not that it is negative, but it is how we have been made to think that it is a White trait. I don't know about blonde hair, but I've had many women compliment me on my grey hair....lol. I don't care how many compliments I get though, I still wish it would turn back black. But that's a different subject.
frankster Posted Tuesday at 10:25 PM Report Posted Tuesday at 10:25 PM The Best way to destroy colorism is through Education Create systems that promote celebrate and reward all skin tones hues and shades... Accentuate the positive and ignore or confront the negative..... Saturate Mass Media with the Spectrum of all shades ....as equally as possible. Demonstrate the necessity of variety.. etc 1 1
Pioneer1 Posted Wednesday at 10:22 PM Author Report Posted Wednesday at 10:22 PM frankster The Best way to destroy colorism is through Education Not so fast.....lol. An argument can be made against that being the "best" way........... Colorism isn't a LOGICAL issue that can be resolved simply by appealing to people's intellect and reasoning. It also involves deep seated psychological and emotional factors that are often found in people's subconscious. If a woman feels that she's ugly or undesirable because she's dark skinned and has been bullied over it since childhood....getting a PhD isn't going to help resolve that issue. Black history course alone will not be enough to resolve her issues. This is why ENTERTAINMENT and RELIGION must also be incorporated in healing and repairing the damage. These are activities that involve the emotions at a deep level. Create systems that promote celebrate and reward all skin tones hues and shades... No, medium and dark skin specifically. We've had hundreds of years of a society and media promoting white and lighter skinned shades. They're going to continue to do so. We...as Black people....need to COUNTER that with the OPPOSITE. Saturate Mass Media with the Spectrum of all shades ....as equally as possible. What you're saying SOUNDS fair...but it's not. When things have been so lop sided for centuries....equality isn't "fair". The OTHER side must be given priority for a period of time to balance things out. This is the reasoning behind Reparations. AfroAmericans need EXTRA and MORE than the Whites in order to REPAIR the damage and balance out the historic injustices. So the logic goes with promoting dark skinned and other African featured standards of beauty.....AND HANDSOMENESS. Dark skinned Black men with strong African features have also been shaded in this society for a long time. Not as much as women...but still. We should also know that a lot of the colorism in America today isn't coming from the Whites OR the AfroAmericans, but from immigrant groups like Latinos and Asians and Indians.
ProfD Posted Thursday at 01:29 AM Report Posted Thursday at 01:29 AM 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If a woman feels that she's ugly or undesirable because she's dark skinned and has been bullied over it since childhood.... If a Black man steps up & loves that woman...problem solved. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: This is why ENTERTAINMENT and RELIGION must also be incorporated in healing and repairing the damage. These are activities that involve the emotions at a deep level. Entertainment & religion both try to get people to see themselves & each other in a better light. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: No, medium and dark skin specifically. We've had hundreds of years of a society and media promoting white and lighter skinned shades. They're going to continue to do so. We...as Black people....need to COUNTER that with the OPPOSITE. Black folks definitely have the resources to make it happen. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: So the logic goes with promoting dark skinned and other African featured standards of beauty.....AND HANDSOMENESS. Dark skinned Black men with strong African features have also been shaded in this society for a long time. Not as much as women...but still. Dark-skinned should be leading the charge in keeping themselves pumped. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: We should also know that a lot of the colorism in America today isn't coming from the Whites OR the AfroAmericans, but from immigrant groups like Latinos and Asians and Indians. Black folks definitely should not put up with shade from anyone especially immigrants.
frankster Posted Thursday at 08:24 PM Report Posted Thursday at 08:24 PM 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster The Best way to destroy colorism is through Education Not so fast.....lol. An argument can be made against that being the "best" way.......... Okay... 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Colorism isn't a LOGICAL issue that can be resolved simply by appealing to people's intellect and reasoning. Educations is more than Intellect and Reasoning 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: It also involves deep seated psychological and emotional factors that are often found in people's subconscious. That is also part of and a form of Education....And they also involve Reasing and Intellect - but not limited to 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If a woman feels that she's ugly or undesirable because she's dark skinned and has been bullied over it since childhood....getting a PhD isn't going to help resolve that issue. Depends on what she gets a PhD in... 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Black history course alone will not be enough to resolve her issues. For some it is.... Others may need more... 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: This is why ENTERTAINMENT and RELIGION must also be incorporated in healing and repairing the damage. True 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: These are activities that involve the emotions at a deep level. True 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Create systems that promote celebrate and reward all skin tones hues and shades... No, medium and dark skin specifically. I think the word "medium" was a mistake and you meant to type "focus"... If that is what you meant then I disagree... Then you run the risk of the other hues tones and shades developing that which we are trying to Eradicate and Elliminate 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: We've had hundreds of years of a society and media promoting white and lighter skinned shades. That is true It is also true....that each individual is born without real cognizant memory of the past - and hence must be indoctrinated introduces socialized or taught about these things. 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: They're going to continue to do so. Yes 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: We...as Black people....need to COUNTER that with the OPPOSITE. Yes 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Saturate Mass Media with the Spectrum of all shades ....as equally as possible. What you're saying SOUNDS fair...but it's not. When things have been so lop sided for centuries....equality isn't "fair". The OTHER side must be given priority for a period of time to balance things out. True Sounds reasonable.... But I would I would not recommend such actions 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: This is the reasoning behind Reparations. AfroAmericans need EXTRA and MORE than the Whites in order to REPAIR the damage and balance out the historic injustices. If this is so.... Show where USA Paying Reparations will negatively affect any individual financially? 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: So the logic goes with promoting dark skinned and other African featured standards of beauty.....AND HANDSOMENESS. Dark skinned Black men with strong African features have also been shaded in this society for a long time. Not as much as women...but still. I have no problem with promoting "Black and African is beautiful".... But not to the point where one may come away with or begin to believe that white indian or asian is ugly. We all Beautiful....Vareity 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: We should also know that a lot of the colorism in America today isn't coming from the Whites OR the AfroAmericans, but from immigrant groups like Latinos and Asians and Indians. Some or most learned it during their Colonial Experience
Pioneer1 Posted Thursday at 09:40 PM Author Report Posted Thursday at 09:40 PM ProfD If a Black man steps up & loves that woman...problem solved. If... But if "if" were a "fifth"....a lot of people would walk around fucked up, lol. How can a man love a woman who really doesn't love herself? Because of her low self esteem, she will act in a way that PREVENTS him from "loving" her and getting too close. Entertainment & religion both try to get people to see themselves & each other in a better light. True. Also, it brings out the "child like" raw emotions that make people vulnerable to influence. Dark-skinned should be leading the charge in keeping themselves pumped. ....instead of trying to marry as many White or light people as they can and "mate out" their dark genetics, like so many of them do. A lot of dark skinned bruthaz get with White women because of how the sistaz treated them in childhood. frankster Educations is more than Intellect and Reasoning True, but those are the primary factors for education. Depends on what she gets a PhD in... Lol, ok...... So what PhD program do YOU know of that will correct the low self esteem of growing up as dark skinned Black female in this society? I think the word "medium" was a mistake and you meant to type "focus"... If that is what you meant then I disagree... Then you run the risk of the other hues tones and shades developing that which we are trying to Eradicate and Elliminate No, I meant medium. The point isn't to simply promote jet Black people as ideal. That's not realistic because the majority of our people (African people) aren't jet Black. The goal is to promote the "norm" with in our community. The HISTORIC norm....not the current "norm" which involves a lot of admixture. We should be promoting Black people who look like Black people have traditionally looked through out time, and that ranges from medium brown to very dark brown (almost jet black). That is true It is also true....that each individual is born without real cognizant memory of the past - and hence must be indoctrinated introduces socialized or taught about these things. While you're correct....THIS society as it is currently constructed IS teaching many children to cherish and desire white and light skin and hold it as the standard of beauty. We don't have to worry about that. This is why there must be an active campaign to teach the OPPOSITE in order to balance it out. It's not like from history up until now CLEAR people were being promoted....so now we must promote the various hues of light and dark. Light skin has BEEN promoted and is BEING promoted. We don't have to worry about them having a seat at the table, lol. Sounds reasonable.... But I would I would not recommend such actions To be honest, I'm still not completely sure if we SHOULD right now. It would undoubtedly lead to more division in the community and we'd have to weigh THAT against how long it would take to see the benefits of it. The benefits may take a generation or two, but the division and backlash from not just light skinned AfroAmericans but even brown and dark skinned AfroAmericans who would take offense to their light skinned friends and family members being "shaded", would be seen immediately. I have no problem with promoting "Black and African is beautiful".... But not to the point where one may come away with or begin to believe that white indian or asian is ugly. We all Beautiful....Vareity You're right, there is beauty in variety. However when it comes to culture and society....there is usually only ONE established aesthetical standard. One for males. One for females. ....everyone is measured against that. So if YOU don't promote YOUR OWN as being the most beautiful or as being the standard, then another group will surely promote THEIR OWN. ....and your children and their children will be forced to live with it. Currently, it's about White skin and blonde hair and blue eyes. But think of one generation after another of Black children growing up sad or angry or resentful because their skin ain't yellow and their eyes aren't slanted. If SOMEBODY has to be the standard of beauty, I'd rather it be US and not somebody else.
ProfD Posted Thursday at 10:09 PM Report Posted Thursday at 10:09 PM 16 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: If a Black man steps up & loves that woman...problem solved. If... But if "if" were a "fifth"....a lot of people would walk around fucked up, lol. That's a variation of one my favorites..."if was 5th we'd all be drunk". 16 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: How can a man love a woman who really doesn't love herself? Because of her low self esteem, she will act in a way that PREVENTS him from "loving" her and getting too close. No doubt. It takes the *right* man & a lot of patience. 16 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: A lot of dark skinned bruthaz get with White women because of how the sistaz treated them in childhood. That's one *excuse*. Most often, dark brothas want the lightest woman they can get. It doesn't get any lighter than white. Then, those brothas feel 1) validated from any childhood trauma as a result of being dark & 2) *won* in the system of racism white supremacy if the white woman looks good. Straight from the proverbial Willie Lynch letter, colorism has done a bang up job on many Black folks.
Pioneer1 Posted Saturday at 04:57 PM Author Report Posted Saturday at 04:57 PM ProfD No doubt. It takes the *right* man & a lot of patience. She may need a "perfect" man, with the patience of a saint...lol. That's one *excuse*. Most often, dark brothas want the lightest woman they can get. It doesn't get any lighter than white. It's an excuse, but a lot of times it's valid. Same with dark skinned women. I've noticed over the years that a lot of dark skinned Black people seek comfort and "love" from White people and the White community that they seemed to not have found among their own. A lot of dark skinned....especially skinny....sistaz say they got with White men because Black men didn't want them. I can't say they were lying. I passed up a lot of slim dark skinned females back in the day. Totally ignored them. Not even on my radar. Now nearly every dark skinned woman gets my attention, initially atleast. Especially if she speaks with an accent...lol. And when I say dark skinned I mean DARK..including jet black. I was watching a movie last night starring a sista who was not only very dark but slim and actually had a bald fade, and made-up with a scar on her face....and was STILL sexy as fuck. Jodie Turner Smith But this is how she usually looks, with hair....lol. Then, those brothas feel 1) validated from any childhood trauma as a result of being dark & 2) *won* in the system of racism white supremacy if the white woman looks good. I've heard over and over about how Black men get with "ugly" White women or White women that White men don't want. In my experiences and observations, this is only true when you're dealing with bums and homeless people....or street people. Other than that; most Black men with White women are with the type THEY find attractive. For example....... If I HAD to choose a White woman, and had to choose between these two: I'm gong to pick the one on the right. Most White men will think the blonde one on the left looks better but ME and most Black men feel the one on the right is more attractive. We like what WE like....and a lot of White women began picking up on that in the 70s and 80s and used it to their advantage. Straight from the proverbial Willie Lynch letter, colorism has done a bang up job on many Black folks. This is true. Perhaps some would argue that the ideology I'm promoting in this thread is a product of Willie Lynch. Turning the "light skinned slave" against the "dark skinned slave" and vice versa. However the division is already there and the preference for light skin in the community already exists, so how else will this be reversed and our collective esteem be raised UNLESS we promote dark again?
frankster Posted Saturday at 06:20 PM Report Posted Saturday at 06:20 PM On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: frankster Educations is more than Intellect and Reasoning True, but those are the primary factors for education. Yes.....That should be the outcome of a proper education Modern Formal Education is primarily about Memorization and Training in How To Apply that which is memorized - Rote On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: Depends on what she gets a PhD in... Lol, ok...... So what PhD program do YOU know of that will correct the low self esteem of growing up as dark skinned Black female in this society? Psychology, Human Development, Sociology and Philosophy. On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: I think the word "medium" was a mistake and you meant to type "focus"... If that is what you meant then I disagree... Then you run the risk of the other hues tones and shades developing that which we are trying to Eradicate and Elliminate No, I meant medium. The point isn't to simply promote jet Black people as ideal. That's not realistic because the majority of our people (African people) aren't jet Black. Which is what I am and was saying or meant by "all tones hues and shades". Now what did you mean by "medium"? Did you actually mean "average"? or where you agreeing with me? On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: The goal is to promote the "norm" with in our community. The HISTORIC norm....not the current "norm" which involves a lot of admixture. What shade is the norm in our community? On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: We should be promoting Black people who look like Black people have traditionally looked through out time, and that ranges from medium brown to very dark brown (almost jet black). On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: Hence the reason I posted the following: "Create systems that promote celebrate and reward all skin tones hues and shades..." Again what really are we disagreeing on or about? On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: That is true It is also true....that each individual is born without real cognizant memory of the past - and hence must be indoctrinated introduces socialized or taught about these things. While you're correct....THIS society as it is currently constructed IS teaching many children to cherish and desire white and light skin and hold it as the standard of beauty. We don't have to worry about that. To teach children cherish and desire is not the problem... The problem is to teach to hate dislike fear and to find black skin offensive disgusting or revolting... On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: This is why there must be an active campaign to teach the OPPOSITE in order to balance it out. I would teach the Truth....we all beautiful I would not teach the opposite On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: It's not like from history up until now CLEAR people were being promoted....so now we must promote the various hues of light and dark. We should promote all forms of beauty. On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: Light skin has BEEN promoted and is BEING promoted. Yes On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: We don't have to worry about them having a seat at the table, lol. True... Because we will not be copying what they did. On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: Sounds reasonable.... But I would I would not recommend such actions To be honest, I'm still not completely sure if we SHOULD right now. Yes...We shouldn't do what you are suggesting On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: It would undoubtedly lead to more division in the community and we'd have to weigh THAT against how long it would take to see the benefits of it. Yes if we do what you are suggesting that will be the result....We are divided NOW Because of it. And you are now suggest we do the same but directed to another part of our community. On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: The benefits may take a generation or two, but the division and backlash from not just light skinned AfroAmericans but even brown and dark skinned AfroAmericans who would take offense to their light skinned friends and family members being "shaded", would be seen immediately. Well at least you see part of the problem with your suggested idea. On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: I have no problem with promoting "Black and African is beautiful".... But not to the point where one may come away with or begin to believe that white indian or asian is ugly. We all Beautiful....Vareity You're right, there is beauty in variety. However when it comes to culture and society....there is usually only ONE established aesthetical standard. One for males. One for females. ....everyone is measured against that. Yes The Universal Standard is Symmetry and Balance(phi/Fibonacci) Everything else with regard to beauty is Political Sociological Cultural Religious Traditional and Economically influenced On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: So if YOU don't promote YOUR OWN as being the most beautiful or as being the standard, then another group will surely promote THEIR OWN. ....and your children and their children will be forced to live with it. Why must it be competitive as in "most beautiful"? On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: Currently, it's about White skin and blonde hair and blue eyes. Especially true in the West and Europe and countries currently or in the recent past dominate by them. On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: But think of one generation after another of Black children growing up sad or angry or resentful because their skin ain't yellow and their eyes aren't slanted. Yes...that would not be good. On 3/19/2026 at 5:40 PM, Pioneer1 said: If SOMEBODY has to be the standard of beauty, I'd rather it be US and not somebody else. The Standard is already Universal...It is not so-called Racial or Ethnic.
ProfD Posted Saturday at 07:02 PM Report Posted Saturday at 07:02 PM 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: I've heard over and over about how Black men get with "ugly" White women or White women that White men don't want. In my experiences and observations, this is only true when you're dealing with bums and homeless people....or street people. Other than that; most Black men with White women are with the type THEY find attractive. There's no shortage of brothas with unattractive, overweight white women. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: For example....... If I HAD to choose a White woman, and had to choose between these two: I'm gong to pick the one on the right. Most White men will think the blonde one on the left looks better but ME and most Black men feel the one on the right is more attractive. It's interesting that you prefer petite, feminine Black women but if you had to take one of those white women it would be the thicker one. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: We like what WE like....and a lot of White women began picking up on that in the 70s and 80s and used it to their advantage. What advantage does a white woman gain in being with a Black man? 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: However the division is already there and the preference for light skin in the community already exists, so how else will this be reversed and our collective esteem be raised UNLESS we promote dark again? Instead of focusing on the superficial i.e. looks, Black folks should be trying to figure out how to build & connect with each other in order to own sh8t & amass wealth.
Pioneer1 Posted Saturday at 07:48 PM Author Report Posted Saturday at 07:48 PM frankster Psychology, Human Development, Sociology and Philosophy Can you provide proof or strong evidence of dark skinned Black women who having HAD low self esteem finding more love for themselves and raising their esteem from the study of these disciplines as taught in Western Academia? Which is what I am and was saying or meant by "all tones hues and shades". See, and THAT'S one of the problems. You want to include ALL hues and shades and I don't. Now what did you mean by "medium"? These colors: These are medium brown skin colors found through out the Black American and sub-Saharan African communities. Some Africans are lighter than this....usually through admixture, and many are naturally darker than this. But these are shades pretty much in the middle. Did you actually mean "average"? I guess you can call it that too. Another term for it would be "brown skinned". or where you agreeing with me? Not when you include the yellow, white, and tan/olive skin tones. They already get enough representation as it is. What shade is the norm in our community? When it comes to skin color, I don't like using the term "norm". It implies that those NOT of that color are AB-normal. Again what really are we disagreeing on or about? See the above. You keep trying to include ALL colors and EVERYbody. Just like you want to make ALL people African....lol. The problem is to teach to hate dislike fear and to find black skin offensive disgusting or revolting... Which is why we must teach the opposite. I would teach the Truth....we all beautiful But that wouldn't be the truth....because not everybody is beautiful. That's like saying everybody is good or everybody is smart; we know this isn't true. We should promote all forms of beauty No! White and lighter skinned people don't need any more promotion for THEIR beauty. We need to promote DARK beauty for a change. Yes if we do what you are suggesting that will be the result....We are divided NOW Because of it. Actually, we are divided now because of the OPPOSITE. The colorist division that exists in our community comes from too many of our people thinking that White and light is superior and better and more attractive. It comes from many light skinned people thinking they are superior, smarter, and more beautiful simply because they look closer to Whites. And you are now suggest we do the same but directed to another part of our community. I'm suggesting that we BALANCE things out. When a scale is LOP SIDED and NOT BALANCED....you don't add weight to BOTH sides of it! You add more weight to ONE SIDE until it is equal to the other. Well at least you see part of the problem with your suggested idea. Yes, and I also see the problem that comes from it NOT being implemented. .....the long lasting problem of letting self-hatred fester and not be addressed or resolved. Yes The Universal Standard is Symmetry and Balance(phi/Fibonacci) Symmetry and balance are the NATURAL standards, but not necessarily the Universal standards. Why must it be competitive as in "most beautiful"? 2 Reasons: 1. Because competition is human nature. 2. Because unlike ATTRACTION....beauty is subjective, and must constantly be affirmed and standardized to maintain any legitimacy. The Standard is already Universal...It is not so-called Racial or Ethnic. If that Standard were Universal....we'd find those same standards among all or atleast most peoples around the planet regardless of culture or contact. The fact is, beauty....unlike attraction...is largely CULTURAL and is maintained through culture and indoctrination. One wonders what do the women of the am*zon Indigenous tribes think of Black men since they've rarely come into any contact with let alone indoctrination from the outside world. ProfD There's no shortage of brothas with unattractive, overweight white women. That's one of the points I was making. Maybe those overweight White women ARE attractive to the bruthaz they are with. Maybe WHITE MEN consider them unattractive, but BLACK MEN may find them VERY attractive. It's interesting that you prefer petite, feminine Black women but if you had to take one of those white women it would be the thicker one. I prefer thick or voluptuous women over skinny ones of any race...period. But that being said, every day I see petite slim women who I find very attractive. What advantage does a white woman gain in being with a Black man? According to many of them, a better sex life and being less controlled and domineered. Instead of focusing on the superficial i.e. looks, Black folks should be trying to figure out how to build & connect with each other in order to own sh8t & amass wealth. But at the end of the day, sex and....as Jay Z would say...WHO YOU WIT'.....is one of the major goals. One of the reasons men GET money and wealth and try to make something of themselves is to attract more women. That's the purpose of much of it. Take the female and sex factor a way and what are you doing with the money? You got a big ass house....a mansion....and nobody in it but you.....and a tube of Vaseline....lol. Sex, health, food, land, weapons to protect them.....these are some of the REAL wealth. Financial security is just a common means for attaining them.
ProfD Posted yesterday at 03:40 AM Report Posted yesterday at 03:40 AM 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: There's no shortage of brothas with unattractive, overweight white women. That's one of the points I was making. Maybe those overweight White women ARE attractive to the bruthaz they are with. You're right. Plenty dudes are attracted to polar bears. 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I prefer thick or voluptuous women over skinny ones of any race...period. But that being said, every day I see petite slim women who I find very attractive. Gotcha. Thick & voluptuous women win every time & twice on Sundays. 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: One of the reasons men GET money and wealth and try to make something of themselves is to attract more women. Sure. Especially men who don't attract women naturally. 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: That's the purpose of much of it. Take the female and sex factor a way and what are you doing with the money? Having a lot of money allows a man to buy more of everything including women. 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You got a big ass house....a mansion....and nobody in it but you.....and a tube of Vaseline....lol. A man living in mansion never has to worry about getting women. Money attracts them. 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Sex, health, food, land, weapons to protect them.....these are some of the REAL wealth. Financial security is just a common means for attaining them. A lack of financial security makes all of that harder to obtain & causes unnecessary stress.
Pioneer1 Posted yesterday at 12:09 PM Author Report Posted yesterday at 12:09 PM ProfD Sure. Especially men who don't attract women naturally. As it SHOULD be. Every man ain't "got it" like that. A lack of financial security makes all of that harder to obtain & causes unnecessary stress. In this society, yes.
frankster Posted 23 hours ago Report Posted 23 hours ago 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Psychology, Human Development, Sociology and Philosophy Can you provide proof or strong evidence of dark skinned Black women who having HAD low self esteem finding more love for themselves and raising their esteem from the study of these disciplines as taught in Western Academia? These are the professionals who help people who suffer with low self esteem.... If that does not convince you....then you must do the research - if you want to know. 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Which is what I am and was saying or meant by "all tones hues and shades". See, and THAT'S one of the problems. You want to include ALL hues and shades and I don't. Yes I do... Which or who do you want to exclude? 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Now what did you mean by "medium"? These colors: These are medium brown skin colors found through out the Black American and sub-Saharan African communities. Some Africans are lighter than this....usually through admixture, and many are naturally darker than this. But these are shades pretty much in the middle. So you desire to start another form of discriminatory hierarchy of what is beauty. So you want to promote only these colors? And what of the rest or other colors? 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Did you actually mean "average"? I guess you can call it that too. Another term for it would be "brown skinned". We all shades of Brown Skin. 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: or where you agreeing with me? Not when you include the yellow, white, and tan/olive skin tones. They already get enough representation as it is. I do To leave out any is to be Discriminatory and preferentially biased against one in favor of the other. In that way you have not solved the problem....you have only shifted the problem to the other side. 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: What shade is the norm in our community? When it comes to skin color, I don't like using the term "norm". It implies that those NOT of that color are AB-normal. Exactly 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Again what really are we disagreeing on or about? See the above. You keep trying to include ALL colors and EVERYbody. Just like you want to make ALL people African....lol. Yes All peoples are Descended from Africa and Africans. Yes....because it is true 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The problem is to teach to hate dislike fear and to find black skin offensive disgusting or revolting... Which is why we must teach the opposite. We must teach that beauty exist in all shades Not that one shade is beauty 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I would teach the Truth....we all beautiful But that wouldn't be the truth....because not everybody is beautiful. That's like saying everybody is good or everybody is smart; we know this isn't true. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder..... 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: We should promote all forms of beauty No! White and lighter skinned people don't need any more promotion for THEIR beauty. Is there no Beauty among white and lighter skinned peoples? 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: We need to promote DARK beauty for a change. Yes 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes if we do what you are suggesting that will be the result....We are divided NOW Because of it. Actually, we are divided now because of the OPPOSITE. How can that be the opposite? We are teaching our people that Beauty is found in a single shade....which is white and light? or Are we teaching that beauty exist in all shades? 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The colorist division that exists in our community comes from too many of our people thinking that White and light is superior and better and more attractive. So you are proposing to teach that beauty exist only in "medium"? 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: It comes from many light skinned people thinking they are superior, smarter, and more beautiful simply because they look closer to Whites. yes 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: And you are now suggest we do the same but directed to another part of our community. I'm suggesting that we BALANCE things out. When a scale is LOP SIDED and NOT BALANCED....you don't add weight to BOTH sides of it! You add more weight to ONE SIDE until it is equal to the other. But you are not suggesting a balance? 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Well at least you see part of the problem with your suggested idea. Yes, and I also see the problem that comes from it NOT being implemented. .....the long lasting problem of letting self-hatred fester and not be addressed or resolved. cool 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes The Universal Standard is Symmetry and Balance(phi/Fibonacci) Symmetry and balance are the NATURAL standards, but not necessarily the Universal standards. Semantics Natural/Nature is Universal 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Why must it be competitive as in "most beautiful"? 2 Reasons: 1. Because competition is human nature. Yes....We are Competitive by nature - We are also Co-operative by Nature. This is not a Contest where some must Lose in order that others may Win. This is a Society where all can Win. Here I quote @Pioneer1 below: '"So if YOU don't promote YOUR OWN as being the most beautiful or as being the standard, then another group will surely promote THEIR OWN." By promoting your own as the "most beautiful" then those that are not your own are they least beautiful....The situation remains it is just foisted on someone else 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: 2. Because unlike ATTRACTION....beauty is subjective, and must constantly be affirmed and standardized to maintain any legitimacy. Yes beauty is Subjective to the Individual but Objective to Society and especially in a Contest. 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The Standard is already Universal...It is not so-called Racial or Ethnic. If that Standard were Universal....we'd find those same standards among all or atleast most peoples around the planet regardless of culture or contact. The fact is, beauty....unlike attraction...is largely CULTURAL and is maintained through culture and indoctrination. Yes beauty is Universal but influenced by culture. 21 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: One wonders what do the women of the am*zon Indigenous tribes think of Black men since they've rarely come into any contact with let alone indoctrination from the outside world. They will recognize Beauty in a fellow human being.....so long as they have not been indoctrinated with prejudicial ideas of black is not beauty.
Pioneer1 Posted 22 hours ago Author Report Posted 22 hours ago frankster These are the professionals who help people who suffer with low self esteem.... If that does not convince you....then you must do the research - if you want to know. I repeat the question: Can you provide proof or strong evidence of dark skinned Black women who having HAD low self esteem finding more love for themselves and raising their esteem from the study of these disciplines as taught in Western Academia? Either you can, can't, or don't feel like doing it. Yes I do... Which or who do you want to exclude? For a period of time....all of them EXCEPT medium brown, dark brown, and black. So you desire to start another form of discriminatory hierarchy of what is beauty. Correct. So you want to promote only these colors? Correct. And what of the rest or other colors? I wouldn't promote them. We all shades of Brown Skin. Most, but not everybody. Many are almost white or various shades of red. Others are actually black. To leave out any is to be Discriminatory and preferentially biased against one in favor of the other. Correct. And I want to leave out MOST of them, so that's some big time discrimination fo' yo' ass.....lol. In that way you have not solved the problem....you have only shifted the problem to the other side. Sometimes SHIFTING the problem IS solving the problem. If a weight on one side is causing an imbalance, you SHIFT more weight to the other side to correct it. Adding the SAME amount of stones to both sides won't correct the imbalance. You have to SHIFT the weight. Yes All peoples are Descended from Africa and Africans. What part of Africa do the ESKIMOS come from? We must teach that beauty exist in all shades Why "must" we teach that? Who made it mandatory? What religious text commands us to do so? Is there no Beauty among white and lighter skinned peoples? Sure. And this society has no problem reminding us of this. How can that be the opposite? Because the community was ALREADY divided with many light skinned people being held as superior. We are teaching our people that Beauty is found in a single shade....which is white and light? No, multiple shades of brown.....and black. Are we teaching that beauty exist in all shades? We??? Lol, well...I don't know what YOU are teaching the youth at YOUR house but at MY house I teach the youth that dark is beautiful. So you are proposing to teach that beauty exist only in "medium"? No. Medium brown, dark brown, and black. Not that beauty ONLY exists in these shades, but these shades are the focus. But you are not suggesting a balance? Ofcourse it is. Semantics Natural/Nature is Universal No, "natural" is what humans are born with and "universal" is usually understood as that which is found in cultures around the globe whether it's natural or culturally imposed. Yes....We are Competitive by nature - We are also Co-operative by Nature. This is not a Contest where some must Lose in order that others may Win. This is a Society where all can Win. In a competition...there is no such thing as "all winning". If one person or group wins, the other person or group loses. Even if they come in at 2nd or 3rd place, they didn't win...they lost. You seem like one of those coaches who believes ball players should get a trophy for just showing up to practice whether they actually win the game or not....lol. By promoting your own as the "most beautiful" then those that are not your own are they least beautiful It depends. If there are MULTIPLE choices that are not my own, then the one at the BOTTOM is the "lease beautiful" but their may be different gradations in the middle. The situation remains it is just foisted on someone else Which is not necessarily a bad thing. Yes beauty is Universal but influenced by culture. The CONCEPT of beauty is universal but the STANDARDS of beauty are not. Even with Western Imperialism imposing their standards around the planet, various standards can still be found around the planet.
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