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Nah'Sun

No Longer a Dirty Word

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Nice article Nah'Sun.

On a related note. If seems to me that most girls are actually "thick" as opposed to slim. It is possible Brothers who prefer thick girls are in the majority. What do you think?

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Thanks for the love

I think it’s the majority, because you also have brothas who are ashamed to admit that they’re attracted to plus size women

They’ll sleep with them, but won’t show their faces around them

Just like how the white man had done back in slavery

I also wanna point out that Europeans are also attracted to plus size women, but they save face because there aren’t a lot of European women, presently and historically, that are as shapely as Black women

The story of Sarah Baartman will show you how Europeans gravitated toward the full figuredness of a woman even though she was paraded as an exhibition in England and France

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Oh, come on, NAH. Italian men, in particular, have always had a thing for voluptuous women, dating back to the Renassiance when buxom hefty women were prominently featured in their art. You stereotype black women when you imply that they are the only ones who are coveted for their big butts and large boobs.

The adjective "Rubenesque" which is a term applied to plus-sized women comes from the way famous artist Paul Rubens depicited women in his works centuries ago. Also the dimension of the archetype Venus Di Milo reveal her to be anything but wasp-waisted and petite. The Mona Lisa is a chubby woman.

You seemed to have limited your research to a narrow window, - unlike Chris Rock who declares with a good deal of authenticity how confident fat black women are. There is a sizeable element among them who are not lacking in self-esteem, (pun intended) and there's no way you can't tell them that they ain't lookin good when they hit the clubs, exuding confidence, decked out in their too-tight outfits and sausage toes exploding out of their sandals. Body size is not a big issue with black women. Anorexia and bulemia are rare among their ranks.

And over the years, I've encountered very few black men who don't appreciate a well-proportioned "thick" woman. In fact, black men are the ones who coined the word "thick". Back in the day there was even a very popular song wherein the male vocalist salivated about wanting "a big, fat, momma with the meat shakin on her bones". Even obese women have been rhapsodized.

Sounds to me like you got carried away with your idea for an original novel. Did it work? Do you work? ^_^

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@ Pioneer

That logic is flawed because skinny women have shape as well

@ Cynique

*sigh*

Here you go with the generalizations again...you were doing well at first

Side A

Re-read my post

Italians are European…aren’t they?

And secondly, Southern Italians have Moorish blood in them…a lot of them are going to have voluptuous shapes

Show me in my post where I stereotyped Black women, and point out where I said Black women are the only ones who are busty with large cabooses

And besides them living as half-Moors, I've met white women who are voluptuous

I said in the article that my book is about accepting yourself regardless of size

Once again...regardless of size...which means I also depict women in various shapes and sizes

But you wouldn't know that since you never read the book

Side B

As far as history, fat women were seen as a high social status

In fact, they are still seen as a high social standard in East Africa

Side C

How you’re going to come up with the conclusion that my research is from a narrow window when you haven’t read the book?

LOL...you funny

You gotta read the book for yourself and come up with your own conclusion

Side D

Point out in the article where I said my writing about plus size women is an "original novel"

I never said that

And over the years, I've encountered very few black men who don't appreciate a well-proportioned "thick" woman.

You need to get out more

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"Me thinks the boy doth protest too much." As much as you try, you can't control the impression your words give. I don't have to justify my observations

Your book doesn't sound like anything I'd be interested in spending my money on. Maybe somebody else here will post a review that is concise enough for me to bother reading. yawnnnn. <_<

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BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

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Nah, it it were just about the "thickness" rather than the shape then CURVES wouldn't be so popular. When most men say thick, they are envisioning a voluptuous woman with a large chest and hips and narrow waist. Not a sack of potatos in a skirt.

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I equate "thick" with "obese" Am I wrong? I'm pretty certain most of the women y'all are calling "voluptuous" have BMI's over 30 -- along with all the associated health risks ESPECIALLY those in my age bracket.

Often when I hear Brothers talking about a thick girl, the subject, is obese.

Now if, as Pioneer1 suggested, using the term "Thick" to refer to the classic "brick house" 36-24-36 I'd agree. But that kind of Thinkness is so rarely found in women after 30. Generally big booties come with stomachs to match... More rotund than thick

Now the ladies on this page http://the305.com/2012/07/24/photos-of-the-day-big-booty-edition-90-photos/ are THICK!, but if you account for photoshop and implants I'm not sure how many would still qualify. "Butt" even in the case we are still dealing with teenagers and 20 somethings...

I think a healthy women with any type of physique can be attractive.

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Where I come from, the word thIckness is associated with solidness, not flab. Thick is to fat, what thin is to skinny. Measurements don't have to conform to 36-24-36, they just have to be proportioned.And stomachs don't have to be flat. A rounded little protusion is acceptable.Thick girls are often big, as opposed to little.

And, of course, there is the pleasingly plump category that's another classification. To me, Obeseness is overweight to the extreme.

As I often remind, my years of working at the post office exposed to me to a very broad spectrum of black types, both physical and mental. And the girls considered thick got just as much play as the slender ones.

The males in my grandsons' generation make a distinction between thick and fat.

I'd venture to say that such matters differ from place to place.

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@ Troy

Thick is FAR from obesity

@ Cynique

Your definition of Thick is on point

And yes, the definition of Thick varies, but the overall description has nothing to do with obesity

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Mani I jut decided to google "thick girls"... whoa!

At any rate, it is diffuclt to discuss thinkness, obesity, or just plain fat (as opposed to phat). without some concrete examples.

Here is a page that had some clean, tasteful examples (alarmingly difficult to find on Google) http://pinterest.com.../body-positive/

Here is one such image:

Obese, Thick, Fat all three?

7599893092735589_5A3nkG9u_c.jpg

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Troy

Like Cynique and Nah'sun said, there is a difference between thick and "obese"....lol.

When men Black men describe a woman as "thick" they're saying she's a little heavier than average but the curves are in the right places.

Now that girl in the photo in my opinion is both thick AND fat, but I wouldn't call her obese.

The biggest difference between being simply thick and actually being fat is the belly.

If the chest and hips/butt is large but the waist small she's thick, but if the belly is big then to me she would be considered fat.

Infact, most medical professionals believe that the amount belly fat is one of the main factors determining how detrimental an excessive amount of body fat is to one's health.

But it should also be kept in mind that women of African (and Middle Eastern) descent are made differently than most White and East Asian women so their bone structures can handle more weight in a healthy way.

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Wow. This is deep. When did the term "fat" become so charged? Have we become so politically correct that we can even use the term in way that allows us to communicate effectively?

Now in my book the woman pictured is fat -- any day of week. I'm not making a value judgment, I'm not describing her self-esteem, I'm not making any assessment of her health, I'm not even giving my opinion on how attractive she is.

But if we can't agree that this woman is fat, we need a dictionary.

Now I asked about the term thick, because like a lot of slang the term is an imprecise one, that does not communicate very much. It has more meaning when used in content and within a well-known group. Pioneer say's the woman is "thick" and Nah'Sun say she is not.

As far as being obese, I can't say for certain, any more than I can say how tall she is or how much she weights. But I'd be willing to bet this woman is clinically obese (a body mass index of 30 or more).

Pioneer, that last statement about African and middle eastern women's bone structures being suitable to handling more weight in a healthy way is interesting. Where did you learn this? I wonder if this "idea" is were "big boned" came from?

In all seriousness, we need to be very careful about how we view excess weight, without boring you with stats. Diabetes, and heart disease, runs rampant in our community. While we embrace thinckness (whatever that means), we also embracing serious health issues...

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Troy

Pioneer, that last statement about African and middle eastern women's bone structures being suitable to handling more weight in a healthy way is interesting. Where did you learn this? I wonder if this "idea" is were "big boned" came from?

I learned this simply from observation having traveled around the nation and in some countries outside the nation.

I've observed that women of African (which includes a large portion of Latino women) and Middle Eastern (many of whom are of African ancestry themselves) decent tend to have wider hips, larger butts, and denser bones than White women and East Asian (Chines, Korean, Japanese) women regardless of diet, exercise, ect....

It's just genetic.

Although the term "big boned" is often used as an excuse by many women to justify being fat and even obese when clearly it's more than their "bones" that's big....lol...there is some truth to this.

Even most doctors agree that Black and Arab women are less likely to get osteoporosis due to their denser bone structure.

In all seriousness, we need to be very careful about how we view excess weight, without boring you with stats. Diabetes, and heart disease, runs rampant in our community. While we embrace thinckness (whatever that means), we also embracing serious health issues...

To be honest with you, I like SHORT women.....fat or skinny, lol.

My preferences tend to go more towards height than weight, so I'm not putting that much money down on this fight anyway, just my 2 cents.

However, from my observations when Black women get too slim or get as slim as White women can get....often times they tend to be too "hard" or muscular.

I'd rather a woman have a soft round belly than a hard six-pack.

I'd rather her have soft arms with just a little flab on them than muscular biceps with that vein running through them.

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:) I hear you Pioneer regarding your preference for the ladies.

That said, you can not look at someone and gauge their respective bone density -- unless your real name is Clark Kent.

I've been to every state of the union and three African nations. However my observations differ dramatially from yours. The average American Black woman is much larger than the average African woman.

Sure my observations, like yours, are anedoctal, but I'd be willing to bet if we researched it, we would find obesity is much more prevelant in the chocolate city of DC than it is in Nigeria.

I would also be careful stereotyping Afircan women as having "...wider hips, larger butts, and denser bones". African people come in ALL shapes and sizes.

But bone density and hip width are distractions from my point about obesity. The biggest contributors of which are a poor diet and lack of exercise. And I'm not convinced our embracing "thickness" is healthy --anymore than embraing being paper thin.

Speaking about language we have even perverted the word "heathy" to be more or less equivalent with "fat", as in, "That is one HEALTHY sista!"

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@ Troy

Side A

Google "Buffie the Body" and "Deelishis" from the Flavor of Love to see the definition of THICK

Side B

Speaking for myself, I write about how a woman can be thick AND healthy at the same time

That is possible

I advocate that you can have size, curves, and still live a healthy lifestyle…I don’t patronize plus size women…I pretty much tell them to be cautious and not use their false sense of pride as their downfall

My books about Thickness advocate eating right and exercising

As far as unhealthy…

It all depends on how a person is shaped and engineered that determines what is unhealthy

A lot of football players are considered obese, but they can outrun and outlast someone that’s considering “healthy”

I’m considered 20 pounds overweight, but I’m healthier than I’ve ever been

Side C

East Africa holds fat women in high standards

If you go to certain parts of West Africa and South Africa, you’ll see a good amount of women with wide hips, large butts and big busts

Where do you think American Blacks got it from in the first place?

LOL

It's genetics

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Veeery interesting discussion. I'd venture to say that a lot of these personal preferences can be attributed to being in the "eye of the beholder".

As I recall from the 6 weeks devoted to anthropolgy in the general study of the physiology course I was required to take at college, -standards which may have changed since way back then, - was that the stereotypical view of African women was their being more prone to have narrow hips but high, fleshy buttocks. When it came to their busts they were usually more veritical than horizontal. Their legs also tend to be skinny. European and Scandinavian women are the ones with wide hips, flat butts, sturdy legs and broad breasts. Obviously African American women are hybrids, a combination of all body types, because their blood lines are mixed with Caucasian as well as Native American which is a sub-division of the Asian classification. (whew!). You can see typical body traits in African athletes. Their ability to run is fascilitated by their short thighs and long skinny legs.

The guidelines for obesity were recently revised, reflecting the distribution of weight on the body frame. So a woman can weigh a lot but not be obese.

I don't know if this has any scientic authenticity, but I always heard that wrist bones were clues to whether a woman was large-boned. If they are prominent then this is an indication that one has big bones...

Another term applied to a woman's figure is "heavy-set", which can be either good or bad, depending on what parts of the body are heavy. A small waist line has always been an asset which is why every woman longs to have one.

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@ Cynique

Side A

I think you pretty much hit everything on the nail with this post

I also wanna add that another reason why African athletes, specifically those from East Africa, are great runners is because they’re used to running in high altitude

Running in US marathon races is a walk in the park to some of them

Side B

I never saw Black women as those with larger breasts…white women are stereotyped as having that asset

I mostly see large butts on Black women

It’s a joke that says, “She got a Black girl’s ass with white girl’s titties”

Side C

If you wanna keep it funky, all races come from Black people

The first Asians like the Dravidians and the “Untouchables” of India as well as the early Native Americans were documented as Negroid

But that’s for another discussion

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Troy

Lol....

Yes sir, I love me some short women fat or slim.

If me and you are sitting somewhere chilling one day and a fat midget toddles by.....you better hurry up and find something else to do for the rest of the day!

Regarding bone density, I don't make the claim that Black women have denser bones based on visual observation. My claims are based on the science of the medical community that confirms this: http://www.niams.nih.gov/Health_Info/Bone/Osteoporosis/Background/default.asp

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/82/2/429.full

http://depts.washington.edu/bonebio/bonAbout/race.html

I haven't been to Africa but I've met quite a few African women from all over the continent and although East African women tend to have a slimmed bone structure and straighter hair than West Africans, compared to White women thier butts are still bigger and higher and thier hair strands are still "thick" like other Black women even if the structure of the hair is straight or wavey like White women's.

Now ofcourse there are exceptions.

I used to live in Pennsylvania near an Amish community where those Whites don't believe in altering their bodies or hair in any way and you'll see some with blonde but kinky almost nappy hair.....lol. I've seen jet Black people with naturally green eyes. So ofcourse if the genes are there you'll find Black women with narrow hips and flat butts as you're find Black people who are actually White (albino) or have blue eyes. But that's not the norm from my observations.

I agree with you about the lack of exercise and poor diet being a major problem and we shouldn't justify it by calling people "healthy" when often times they are far from it.

Some of our people are masters at making excuses for inexcusable behavior.

 

Nah'Sun

If you wanna keep it funky, all races come from Black people

The first Asians like the Dravidians and the "Untouchables" of India as well as the early Native Americans were documented as Negroid

But that’s for another discussion

Well that's another good discussion that I'd like to participate in if it ever jumps off because I've been entertaining this idea for years.

I say there are actually 2 Black races.

2 separate races, but both Black in color....one from the African continent and the other from the Indian subcontinent.

I believe that the Elamites and other original peoples who populated the Middle East before Caucasian tribes came down and mixed with or replaced them were Blacks either of the Indian Dravidian/Tamil type or of a Black type that may have been the common ancestor of BOTH races of Blacks African and Indian before they split and went their separate ways.

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Nah'Sun, Side A - Thick is a subjective term. But I have an ideal of what your definition is. Do you think Buffy the Body is heathy (the clinical definition)?

Side C - It is not uncommon for cultures to hold overweight people in high regard. It is a sign of having wealth -- not health.

American Blacks get their obesity from their diets not their genetics. More accurately, they are not eating a diet best suited for their genetics. Unfortunately much of the food made available to us especially in poorer communities is much more likely to make us obese.

Nah'Sun if you are anywhere near me age, I'm sure you've noticed that Black people, women in general, are simply fatter that they we when we were younger.

Cynique what are your observation regarding the relative percentage of fat people over the years?

Pioneer those articles were interesting and does support the point you made:

But it should also be kept in mind that women of African (and Middle Eastern) descent are made differently than most White and East Asian women so their bone structures can handle more weight in a healthy way.

It is interesting to note however that one article referenced a study which indicated that; The greater bone density among black persons may be caused by their higher obesity rate.

At any rate, there is no scientific evidence Black people are better suited or genetical designed to be obese at least no more than anyone else.

We are more obese because of reason we can control.

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I would consider the woman in the photo fat and obese. I have spent a good amount of time in west Africa and most sisters are actually not large chested. They DO have ample butts, though and are well-toned.

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There are now challenges out there in regard to the concept of race, with the latest one being that it is an artiificial construct that's more political than scientific. When it comes to the human species in the African continent, people from different tribes and different countries are not monolithic in their appearance. Their skin color has a wide range, running from the blue-blacks to the mahoganies. Body types span the gamut from the keen-featured, tall, slender Watusis to the broad featured short and pudgy Pygmies. Hair grade includes both wooly and crinkly.

Because the slave trade was focused mostly on West Africa's ivory coast, particularly Nigeria, these natives are the ancestors of African Americans, and how Nigerians look is how we tend to picture Africans.

The natural diet of Africans is not really compatible with that of the Western World. That's why so many Blacks in this country are lactose intolerant, and prone to diabetes and high blood pressure. Since slaves were given left-overs from the massah's table this influenced their eating habits. But I'd be the last one to condemn soul food. I love it and ain't about to stop eating it. :P

Since Africa is the cradle of civilization, Homo Sapiens sprung from there. Mutations of the Negroid stock are what account for the Caucasian and Mongoloid breeds.

That's why some say, in jest, that when white mutants were driven out of the black tribes because of their pale color, they vowed revenge and have been punishing Blacks ever since. And doing a very effective job, I might add.

My observations in regard weight changes over the years, Troy, is that women of all ethnicity are packing on the pounds. The average dress size is now up to 14 from 12. A lot of this has to do with availablity of fast foods that are high in caories. I was once slim, myself, but my now being heavier has somethng to do with the aging process. I've confess to never eating heathy, however. Enjoying what I like to eat is one of the many vices I refuse to give up because as Little Wayne say, "YOLO". I try to convince myself that my RH-Negative blood handles food in a different way. Any excuse will do. Anyway, I'm still here as opposed to many of my diet-conscious dead friends. ;)

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Average dress size probably ignores dress size inflation. A size 12 a generation ago is something like a size 6 today.

I would not call eating what you like a "vice" -- unless what you like to eat is limited to just Twinkies and McNuggets and a red juice chaser.

One of life's simplest pleasures is eating. Eating is one of the highlights of my day. However you don't want to eat to the point or in a fashion where you give yourself diabetes, or a stroke, or became fat, right?

Perhaps your diet conscious friends would have checked out a lot sooner, assuming they passed of natural caused. Or if they lost their lives through unnatural means I suspect the quality of their lives was better.

The trade-off between the pleasures of life vices and the consequences are individual and personal.

But like the consequences of the life of a crack addict, the trade-off are not those one few would consider beneficial or even sane... :(

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Cynique

I've also heard the view that race is some sort of artificial "social construct".....lol.

In my opinion that view is about as valid as saying that sex/gender itself is a "social/political construct" or that childhood and adulthood is socially constructed.

Race is not only real (as most 3 year olds and even some animals even animals can recognize), but it's biological and hereditary.

Maybe the CLASSIFICATIONS are off but the fact that race is real is undeniable in my opinion.

A Wolof in Senegal may look different than a Masai from Kenya but they are far more similar to eachother than a blonde blue eyed Teuton from Germany.

As quiet as it's kept among many East Africans in places like Somalia and Ethiopia, there is evidence that even many of those people are "mixed" with early Semitic ancestors who migrated down there from the Middle East.

There is still friction between the darker skinned Bantus of Ethiopia and Somalia with thier kinky hair and thick noses and the lighter skinned curlier headed peoples we typically associate with those nations. The Bantu people who tend to live in the mountains claim they are the original people of the area and these other people are migrants from the North who came down centuries ago and began making slaves of their people.

If Whites did come from a darker race of ancestors these ancestors probably would most likely be from the Indian sub-continent where we find Blacks like the Tamils with thier straight hair and keen features, traits you find predominate in the White race.

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Pioneer, once the human genome was sequenced it became plain to everyone that there is only one race of people on planet earth. Race is indeed, an arbitrary social construct.

In fact I wish our government would get out of the business of using it.

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@ Troy

Side A

I already said Thick is a subjective term. And health is relative on a person to person basis.

The clinical definition of health changes ever so often

Side B

I only pointed out overweight women in East Africa to show you that it’s not uncommon as you think it is when you drew a comparison between Africa and American cities

Side C

I never said obesity is genetic…I don't believe that one bit...however, bone structure and shape are genetic

As far as older people becoming “fatter,” that’s due to the slowing down of the metabolism and people not working out without being mindful of what they eat

You eat to live, not live to eat

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Let's not forget the role all these chemicals and preservatives they are putting in so many foods today are playing in the development of women of all races but particularly in women of color.

Whether one goes to the 'hood, the barrio, or the reservation....it doesn't take long to notice that the same foods being eaten by white women seem to affect Black, Brown, and Native women to a far greater extent regardless of the amount they're eating.

The same foods that are causing so many women to be obese most likely threw them into puberty at an early age.

I don't give a damn how much she eats, no woman naturally weighs 400+ pounds.

If she does, there's something wrong with her metabolism or there's something in the food she's eating that's not breaking down properly in her body.

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@Nah'Sun How can "health" be relative? Either one is healthy or not, right?

The rest of the stuff you wrote in response is combination of things I did accuse you of or a misunderstanding of something I wrote. I admit I may not have been as clear as I could have been...

The interesting thing about genetics is that almost everything than involves humans from the way we look to our behavior is a combination of genetics and environment. People can be genetically predisposed to a variety of things from mental illness to obesity, that may never manifest because the environment did not trigger the condition.

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