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Pioneer1

Goldie Is Confused

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These are excerpts  of a letter from (and a sad example of) a truly clueless AfroAmerican woman who apparently just can't understand why so many White women behave as they do.

The parts in red are highlighted by me (Pioneer) because I want you to pay especially close attention to those statements and ask yourself WHY she's saying what she's saying.



___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

OPEN LETTER

Dear White Lady, What Are You Doing to Us?

 

I meant to introduce myself sooner, maybe invite you out for coffee or get the kids together for a play date. After all, I want to think we’re more alike than different: that, even though I am black, our challenges are more similar than not, that we both want great things for our kids. And I don’t know about you, but I got divorced two decades or so back. So, it was just me all those years. Pushing, pulling, always exhausted, and always out of time. Did I mention that we’re both probably getting paid less for the same work than a man does?

I want to call you “sister” because, you know, we’re both women navigating our own complicated pile of bullshit. But, of course, that would be too familiar.  

 

...................................

 

I’ve been really meaning to ask you something. It’s been on my mind a good while, especially after Donald Trump won the 2016 race for president. Now that the 2018 midterms are behind us, I figure now is as good of a time as any to ask: “What’s wrong with you?”

I don’t mean you personally, necessarily. I know you don’t speak for all white women in the same way that I could not possibly represent the voice all women of color. And I don’t mean all of you, of course.

But I really want to understand is how you—or, anyways, so many women like you—chose a man like Donald Trump over a vastly more qualified Hillary Clinton. I want to know if you honestly thought he had the moral compass, not to mention the mental wherewithal, to be president of these United States.  There may be a good number of reasons that you’re just flat out tired of the Clinton name. However, I can guarantee you that she wouldn’t have left people to suffer in Puerto Rico. The City of Flint would have gotten the federal funding it needs to completely overhaul its water systems. We certainly would not be the laughingstock of leaders from around the globe. No one would have been snickering during her address to the United Nations.

Sure, Clinton won over the majority of women, “but it was white women who helped hand Trump the presidency,” according to a Washington Post national poll. When Trump says he won the women’s vote, he means you—or at least 45 percent of those of you who are college-educated, and 62 percent of those of you who do not have a college degree. Clinton won the popular vote because women of color picked up all that slack.

 

.....................................

 

 

I know this is a lot coming from someone you hardly know. How do we live in the same neighborhoods, the same townships and cities, how do we share so many of the same struggles and still not understand the power of our collective solidarity? Unlike so many others, I am not willing to write you off and this letter isn’t about flinging shame your way.

I really do hope we will stop for that cup of coffee. I sincerely hope that one day I will be able to count on you as an ally, to call you—without hesitation—my sister.

Goldie Taylor

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/dear-white-lady-what-are-you-doing-to-us?ref=scroll

 

 

 

 

:(   -That last line from her explains it all......and it's a damn shame.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I've actually meet and had dinner, with a few other friends, with Goldie.  She is smart, down to earth, and a Sista.  We are not best buds or anything so I'll speak about her they way I would anyone.  I would not call her a "clueless AfroAmerican woman." That would be inaccurate.

 

I'm sure she knows many white women followed the leads of their husbands and voted for what they perceived as their own self interests. I think however Goldie is trying to appeal to white women on another level, the sorority of gender.

 

I don't think it will work, because money trumps gender in America.  But the click baity title will probably grab attention for the daily beast's website; which is the point of the article right?

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Troy

Let me get this straight............
You actually KNOW this woman?

Damn, lol.

You get around man.

Judging from the article she sounds smart in an academic sense and if this article is indeed her words without any finishing touches by the editor she also sounds quite articulate; but judging by the way she's almost begging and pleading with Caucasian women to accept her as a fellow sister and fellow human being and join her on some sort of mission to save the sisterhood.....she seems naive and clueless to what racism is and how it works.

Racists don't like people for WHO THEY ARE.....not because of how they act, what they believe, or a lack of understanding.
Sitting down with them over tea or lunch in hopes that they will "get to know" you a little better isn't very likely to help.

An intelligent person wouldn't waste time trying to convince someone who obviously doesn't like them for who they ARE to love them, accept them, and be their friend.........unless their self esteem and sense of self worth was so low that begging for their acceptance would be worth the effort and embarassment.

If she'd stop begging White women to have lunch with her and just spend HALF of that effort trying to convince other Black women that they're her sister and that they should form a sisterhood AND THEN join in with their AfroAmerican BROTHERS to re-unite the family.....she'd be much more successful and would have more of my respect.

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@Pioneer1 I said I have dinner with her in a group this was in 2009 I did not know she was at the time, but found her to be smart witty and definitely a sista 🙂

 

It is difficult to know a person from an article.  Image someone trying to judge me by asinglee discussion forum post.  Yor can disagree with the article but the whod have to read a lot more to even begin to judge the person.

 

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Troy

Yor can disagree with the article but the whod have to read a lot more to even begin to judge the person.

Maybe you're right, but homegirl is going to have to "come on with the come on" and stop posting silly articles like that begging people to love her and be her friend.

I mean.....lol....what would you think of me if I came on here one day BEGGING Cynique to like me and be my friend???

 

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Obviously I can't tell for sure simply by reading her article but she didn't sound like any paid operative to me.
She sounded like she was sincere and really wanted friendship and acceptance.

I'm speaking about her as I do because I know people like that in real life who are NOT being paid to make fools of themselves and beg White people for their love and acceptance.  They sincerely want it and spend much of their life searching for it and are really hurt and confused as to why the "white love" and "sisterhood" constantly eludes them.


There are thousands of AfroAmerican women who sincerely believe that there is a "sisterhood" or comraderie  that they share with White women and when White women do things that contradict this belief like voting for Trump or calling the police on them for nothing.....they are traumatized.
They constantly seek questions as to why their "sister" would do such a thing to them.

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On 11/11/2018 at 7:09 PM, Pioneer1 said:

There are thousands of AfroAmerican women who sincerely believe that there is a "sisterhood" or comraderie  that they share with White women and when White women do things that contradict this belief like voting for Trump or calling the police on them for nothing.....they are traumatized.
They constantly seek questions as to why their "sister" would do such a thing to them.

 

@Pioneer1 Since, as usual. you are basing your conclusions on anecdotal evidence, i will reply in kind. 

 

In allll of my years, up to the present, i have yet to be acquainted with a black female who has been traumatized by white women not wanting to form a bond of sisterhood with them!  What i have witnessed is how sistas can take or leave white women, and their reaction to those Miss Anns who have fallen short,  is better described as "contemptuous" or "indifference", but never traumatic. When it came to Hillary's loss, not one black woman i know or any of the many on social media reacted in any way other than to roll their eyes, shake their heads and label these traitors as ignorant, spiteful,  or selfish. Sistas may have been disappointed by this defection but were certainly not traumatized! 

 

Furthermore, straight black women have always been luke warm about hooking up with the white Feminist movement, preferring to deal with chauvinistic black males in their own "castrating" way.  How do you think black women got their reputation of being strong and angry?  The idea of them sucking up to white women and seeking their approval is ridiculous. White women, themselves, are known to be wary of black women, regarding them as hostile.  That tired ol, self-hate argument trotted out as proof that black women treasure white women because they "emulate" their appearance, is played out.  More authentic is how black women have confidently imbued  any "current look" with their own unique flair, and even created their own styles which white women adopt.  This situation is more about self-love, than self hate.   

 

The subject of black women is one you need to avoid because it is a something you are clueless about. SMH.  

 

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Disagreement with you does not make her clueless. She has articulated her point. 

Yiu could substitute the Black and White Working Class and her statement is still valid. 

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On 11/12/2018 at 2:14 PM, Delano said:

Disagreement with you does not make her clueless. She has articulated her point. 

Yiu could substitute the Black and White Working Class and her statement is still valid.

 

@DelWHO is your post directed to?  And who is "SHE"?  🤨  Inquiring minds want to know. 😀

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8 hours ago, Delano said:

Pioneer, Goldie. 

Things are back to normal. I am having trouble following Pioneer's thinking

Oh, OK.  Welcome to the club.    

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Del

 

Disagreement with you does not make her clueless. She has articulated her point.

I didn't say she was stupid.
She has indeed articulated her point, but she is still clueless because she doesn't have a clue as to how White supremacy operates.

If she did, she would know that her begging and pleading for White women to understand her and side with her is for the most part useless.

 

 

Yiu could substitute the Black and White Working Class and her statement is still valid.


How?
 


 

Cynique

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

:rolleyes:


Apparently Goldie isn't the ONLY one who's clueless.....lol.

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Apparently Goldie isn't the ONLY one who's clueless.....lol.

It has been established by people with more sense than you that Goldie wasn't clueless.  (With Del, i never assume anything.  Assuming is your MO.)  

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, @Cynique what do you mean when you say you don't assume anything with me.

 

Black working class and white working class are played against each other. We are going to see true equality. White Working Class are going to receive the same treatment. 

 

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2 hours ago, Delano said:

what do you mean when you say you don't assume anything with me.

Well, you are "notorious" for you spontaneous replies that are not in context.  So I always have to make sure who and what you're referring to. 😉

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Del

Black working class and white working class are played against each other. We are going to see true equality. White Working Class are going to receive the same treatment.


Working class AfroAmericans may be getting played but working class Caucasians are NOT.

These poor and working class Caucasians are NOT being played or fooled or tricked.
They know exactly what they believe and want and why they do what they do whether they opnely SAY it or not. They don't give a shit about healthcare, good jobs, good schools, or anything else......all they care about is maintaining a racist infrastructure and they are willing to sacrifice their own wealth and livelihood to do just that.

Worker bees.

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There is an interesting study being mentioned lately involving very similar boys split up into two group who eventually end up fighting each other -- solely because they are in different groups.

 

It basically helps explains that people will vote, knowingly, against their self interest in order to support their tribe.

 

 

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When have black people voted against their own self interest?  They've been voting overwhelmingly Democratic ever since FDR came into office, during the Depression in 1933.  Why?  As much as Democrats leave to be desired, Republicans have never represented a better choice.  

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Black people vote with their tribe the Democrats, which some people believe is why they do a poor job serving us.

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1 minute ago, Troy said:

they do a poor job serving us.

Serve us, as in Black people?  Or Serve us, as in Poor people?   Because there’s a difference.  Also most wealthy people claim they vote democrat (or  registered democrats ) depending on where you live this would mean wealthy people are in the democratic tribe too.   

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On 11/15/2018 at 10:13 PM, Pioneer1 said:

If she did, she would know that her begging and pleading for White women to understand her and side with her is for the most part useless.

@Pioneer1 I’ve folkowed Goldie on twitter long enough to know she’s not trying to make friends.  This piece is political satire -written tongue-in-cheek.

 

 Goldy has blocked folks on twitter for less and because of vitriolic tweets - msnbc did not renew her contract back in 2014 or 15... but anyway, Goldy, the former U.S. Marine, probably has a good grasp on how white nationalism works - she was literally in the trenches - 

 

 

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@Mel Hopkins the majority of black people (poor and rich) vote democratic (but you already know this).

 

The party of white men is the Republican party.

 

The really wealthy are above party affiliation, as they control both parties.

 

We are all in our tribes and we rarely switch teams because  we rarely exercise that level of freedom.

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@Troy I asked to which you were referring to when you say “serve us” black people or poor people... there’s a difference.

 

 A party that is most wealthy people (Democrats) is probably NOT serving poor people.   So when you say US then chances are you’re speaking about poor people.  I just asked to whom you were referring.

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@Mel Hopkins for sure poor people, and the middle class -- the majority of Americans. This includes the majority of black folks which is who im generally referring to when i write "us."

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@Troy that makes no sense to me.  The impoverished have different needs than ethnic group.

 

Further, If the wealthiest people in this country are democrats -including black wealthy people then it’s serving them. If  middle class to working class people including black people vote democrat it’s serving them... now the question then becomes who is NOT being serve... chances are those the majority of people who don’t vote period - and of course those who are disenfranchised. 

 

For example, voting democratic could serve someone because there’s legislative protection for the environment - and the animals - or there’s a mandate for clean drinking water... or violence against women protection act isn’t going expire... or here’s something - the supreme court isn’t stack where women no longer have the right to what happens to their bodies.  

 

It’s pure ignorance to say someone is voting for something that is NOT serving them...

 

Instead  they should consider that they are unaware how they’re being serve. 

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@Mel Hopkins Black folks and poor people are not mutually exclusive, so why would't large numbers of them share the same needs?  We also know that white racists do not see class they just see race.

 

Do you remember Mayor Bloomberg?  Do you know how many times she changed parties?  Do you remember the party this billionaire was in when he was the Major of NY City?  Again, Billionaires are above party, they bend parties to do their will.  I thought this was obvious.

 

9 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

It’s pure ignorance to say someone is voting for something that is NOT serving them...

 

You're joking right?  

 

Black people's slavish devotion to Bill Clinton only resulted in hyper-incarceration, wealthfare reform, elimination of constraints on Wall street -- all of these disprotionationately and adversely impacted Black people.

 

You think the majority of white women, poor white people, or anyone for that matter, who voted for Trump voted for their self interest? 

 

People REGULARLY vote against their own self interests. This is not ignorance, but a statement of fact something you can easily research on your own. 

 

9 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Instead  they should consider that they are unaware how they’re being serve. 

 

Sure, if one is ignorant of how they are being served then they are unable to assess whether they've voted on their own self interests -- which is probably most of the American electorate.

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9 minutes ago, Troy said:

Sure, if one is ignorant of how they are being served then they are unable to assess whether they've voted on their own self interests -- which is probably most of the American electorate.

 

Actually it's not. The electorate absolutely knows why they are voting  -The ignorance lies in those who believe  they know why people vote they way they do...and still don't take the time to find out otherwise.  

I used to be like that and then I actually started listening to others - and their reasons became loud and clear. 

By the way those reasons are as diverse as the electorate.   

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22 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

The ignorance lies in those who believe  they know why people vote they way they do...and still don't take the time to find out otherwise.  

 

How can someone who believes they know something, but is actually ignorant, know that they are indeed ignorant?  In the age of filter bubble social media based news delivery, where people are feed a continuous stream of information that reinforces their word view, what will motivate them to seek new, different, or even correct information?  

 

Keep in mind, most people change party affiliations like they they change religions and gender -- which is to say rarely.  Today people people are not just more ignorant, they are arrogantly ignorant -- despite much more access to information.

 

@Mel Hopkins, while you and I might be interested in listening to others and considering opposing points of view, most people are not. 

 

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25 minutes ago, Troy said:

Black people's slavish devotion to Bill Clinton only resulted in hyper-incarceration, wealthfare reform, elimination of constraints on Wall street -- all of these disprotionationately and adversely impacted Black people.

 

 

CONTEXT is your friend, @Troy - we were in the middle of getting slaughtered daily by the crack epidemic and the jamaican, dominican and colombian drug cartels in the 90s... I couldn't have take my babies to the park - because it was bloodstained with bits of brain matter .... I left NY because it was no longer safe to raise my family in brooklyn...  I was one of those mothers who was tired of seeing dead bodies in the streets because of the lawlessness. No mother should have to tell her pre-teen daughter not to step in blood... but that's where we were before Clinton took office.  Rememember they flow of drugs and guns coming into the america under the republican watch? Remember Ollie North and Bush and the iran-contra affair and the blowback of gunrunning in the US? That was under the republicans. 

... So tell me again how hyper-incarceration wasn't good for black people who  who lived right in the middle of the drug wars.   Welfare reform? Make up your mind - are we talking about poor people or black people?  Again black people aren't the biggest stakeholders in the welfare system -so let's not mix apples and oranges.

And Bill Clinton signed the wall street bill after his impeachment  - remember the republicans impeached him  but he was acquitted?   Still don't be confused it was a republican bill ... Gramm-Leach-Bliley bill remember?  In fact, everyday the republicans better known as corporatists chip away at the credit and banking protections  . I was knee deep in reporting hard news during the clinton era .. I wasn't a bystander...So tell me again why wouldn't those looking to keep their homes, lives and wealth vote for democrats? 

14 minutes ago, Troy said:

How can someone who believes they know something, but is actually ignorant, know that they are indeed ignorant? 

 

Beliefs and knowing are two different things.  People know what they don't know even while defending their beliefs.  Ignorance isn't a negative unless you're creating policy and not seeking to educate yourself. 

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18 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

... So tell me again how hyper-incarceration wasn't good for black people who  who lived right in the middle of the drug wars.   Welfare reform? Make up your mind - are we talking about poor people or black people?  Again black people aren't the biggest stakeholders in the welfare system -so let's not mix apples and oranges.

 

Dang Mel I'm talking about BOTH Black people AND poor Black people.  

 

You know the US, far and away, locks up more of it's population than any other nation. As you also know this disproportionately impacts Black people.  You should also know welfare reform hurt Black families disproportionately as well. 

 

Then ask yourself how all of the drugs got into the Black community. Finally, ask yourself why crack dealing were buried under the jail and why cocaine dealers  grew irdh selling to bankers on Wall Street

 

Yes Mel and Bill Clinton was president was Glass-Steagall was repealed.  I was not on the sidelines ether. I was actually working on Wall Street -- not just reporting on it -- and don't believe for one second that you reporters got the truth out of these guys in real time.  I saw first hand how a company like Bankers Trust went from basically a savings and loan outfit to a leader in "complex" derivatives trading.  I also saw how mortgage back securities made Goldman rich and while causing many Americans to lose their homes. Then these Goldman guys join the government bending the laws to suit their needs. Ask yourself how many Goldman Sach employees served on the Obama Administration.

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm coming to the conclusion that you can really vote in your self interested. You can only vote in the many that will hurt you the least.

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45 minutes ago, Troy said:

Dang Mel I'm talking about BOTH Black people AND poor Black people.  

 

These two groups have different interests ... So politically you have to separate them.  As a homeowner raising a family and putting my children in the best public schools; my needs will look a lot different than someone who has no property, pays no taxes and literally is faced with a law-and-order tax on a daily.  So when it comes to policy making - government barely serves the interests of poor people... AND again the majority of poor people aren't BLACK people. 

 

But I digress.

 

That's not the point you communicated.  YOU mentioned black people fawning over democrats such as Bill Clinton as if they didn't know what they were doing.

Here's why - All those banking bills and legislation, drug trafficking, and gunrunning is well documented to come from republican administrations... Every time a democrat gets into office they have to clean up all the corporatist activity from so-called republicans.  

Further of course  a democrat such as President Obama  would hire from wall street -He was elected right on the heels of the collapse.  It would have been stupid not too.  If you are trying to get a handle on how google operates and how to get ahead of their  thought process - would you hire someone from netscape search engine? C'mon now.

Anyway, If you were on wall street then you have a myopic view of policy and deal making - and it was people like you who  journalists/ reporters like me turned to to get an handle on the growing catastrophe and helped those on the outside to  investigate from all angles. This is how reporters got to the heart of the story. Remember media is not expert in anything but gathering and disseminating.   Nothing was buried everything was in plain sight - and that's how some banks serving the middle-income earners tried to put in place sustainable banking programs in place from Latin America, to Amsterdam to the US,  as early as 1999 (I got hired by an ABN AMRO bank to communicate the program's message.) 

45 minutes ago, Troy said:

The more I think about it, the more I'm coming to the conclusion that you can really vote in your self interested. You can only vote in the many that will hurt you the least.

 

By Jove,  I think he's got it!!! lol


 

 

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Speaking of tribalism................

I've noticed how both  Cynique and Mel  tend to big-up and "like" eachothers posts a lot.
Is that just a coincidence?
Or just another example of AfroAmerican women conspiring with eachother.....lol.

 

 


Troy

Black people vote with their tribe the Democrats, which some people believe is why they do a poor job serving us.


I'm one of those who believe that this unconditional loyalty is but ONE of the reasons that the Democrat party does a poor job serving AfroAmerican needs.


 

The party of white men is the Republican party.
The really wealthy are above party affiliation, as they control both parties.


Man, you better STOP stealing my sentiments!
I agree 100%.

At the very top both parties are owned and contoled by wealthy Caucasians which is why AfroAmericans shouldn't declare loyalty to either party but either FORM OUR OWN or stand independently and force them both to COMPETE for our votes by promising us the most benefits on an individual election by election basis.

 

 

 

We also know that white racists do not see class they just see race.


Exactly.
They don't see gender or women's issues either....they see race.
Which is why so many White women voted for Trump and the Republican party.


 

 



Mel


Damn, sounds like you lived in New Jack City with Nino Brown as the mayor !


 

 

Also most wealthy people claim they vote democrat (or registered democrats ) depending on where you live this would mean wealthy people are in the democratic tribe too.

A party that is most wealthy people (Democrats) is probably NOT serving poor people


I find these statements hard to believe.

When you say "most wealthy" do you say that to mean:

- MOST of the wealthy people in the United States?

Or

-the MOST WEALTIEST  people in the United States?

....because there's a difference between those two combinations.

 

 



It’s pure ignorance to say someone is voting for something that is NOT serving them...


I'm sure you've heard the phrase "Lesser of two evils".
This is the mentality of those who DO often vote for something that may not serve them but they see the alternative as actually HARMFUL to them
.
They would rather have the neutral than the negative.

 

 

 

 

The ignorance lies in those who believe they know why people vote they way they do...and still don't take the time to find out otherwise.

I used to be like that and then I actually started listening to others - and their reasons became loud and clear.

 

While I agree with this, there's more to understanding why people vote the way they do that you won't get simply by believing what they TELL you.

White people don't tell you outright if they're are doing something for racist reasons.
They'll find all types of elaborate and indirect ways to justify what they're doing or why they're doing it which seemingly make no sense to you if you BELIEVE the reasons they're giving.  But if you know it's really racism at the core of their actions then you'll look past what they simply say.

 

I've discovered that their ACTIONS speak much louder than any words they may offer to satisfy your questions.
 

 

 

 

CONTEXT is your friend, @Troy - we were in the middle of getting slaughtered daily by the crack epidemic and the jamaican, dominican and colombian drug cartels in the 90s... I couldn't have take my babies to the park - because it was bloodstained with bits of brain matter .... I left NY because it was no longer safe to raise my family in brooklyn... I was one of those mothers who was tired of seeing dead bodies in the streets because of the lawlessness. No mother should have to tell her pre-teen daughter not to step in blood... but that's where we were before Clinton took office. Rememember they flow of drugs and guns coming into the america under the republican watch? Remember Ollie North and Bush and the iran-contra affair and the blowback of gunrunning in the US? That was under the republicans.

... So tell me again how hyper-incarceration wasn't good for black people who who lived right in the middle of the drug wars.


I don't know what Troy would say but if you asked me I'd say because the very demographical group who locked AfroAmerican men up for selling the drugs and using the guns.....were the SAME ones who put the drugs in the community and gave them the guns in the first place -Caucasian males.


It's strange how you have all different types of groups in this society.
Asian women, Indian men, Latina women, African men.....yet VERY FEW of any of these people are involved in bringing drugs or guns into America nor involved in arresting and incarcerating those who sell or use the drugs and guns.
Caucasian males dominate on both ends, which tells me there must be some sort of connection.



 

 

 

 

Beliefs and knowing are two different things.


I agree with you.

And we know knowledge is TRUTH, not simply what someone tells you.
So IF the truth is that wealthy Caucasians  control both parties and they also are responsible for bringing drugs and guns into America as well as formulating racist drug laws that allow them to arrect and incarcerate those who sell those drugs and use those guns......then it doesn't matter what we BELIEVE about Bill Clinton or how much we THINK he helped the AfroAmerican community; the TRUTH would be that he was just as involved and guilty for the violence and mayhem of the urban areas as his Republican  predecessors.



On a side note........

I'm not exactly sure why you posted that video of Goldie on MSNBC or how it related to the topic except  to perhaps display how articulate she may be.

But I was wondering where TJ Holmes went when he left CNN.....lol.
I saw him at the CNN Center a couple times when I lived down in Atlanta.

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