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Pioneer1

Sex And Sexuality: Who Decides?

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Troy and Chev (but obviously anyone can respond)

You both say that 18 is too young for sexual activity but growing up many of the males and females I knew were having sex on a regular basis...some even produced children at 18 and 19,  and many of them that I still know of today for the most part have turned out to be just as fine as those who were reportedly virgins and didn't engage in sexual activity.
Outside of the troubles that came with actually having children they weren't ready to support, the sexual activity itself didn't seem to make much of a difference in their success or failures of life.


Two questions I have is:

1. Is it that 18 and 19 are  too young for sexual activity OR is it that THIS SOCIETY ISN'T PROPERLY PREPARING 18 and 19 year olds mentally and socially for what nature has designed them to do at that age?

Troy you mentioned that sex at 18 has less to do with love or commitment and more to do with recreation....and I agree, but I don't see that as necessarily a BAD thing.


If young people were PROPERLY educated on pregnancy and STDs instead of having the reality hidden from them to the point that they can only learn through "trial and error".....perhaps recreational sex would be seen as just another part of celebrating their newness at adulthood like responsible drinking or getting the right to vote.
 

 

2. More importantly in my opinion, WHERE are we as AfroAmericans getting our values and opinions about the appropriateness of sexual expression from?

In other words are WE deciding our morals and values for ourselves, or are we getting them from Caucasians and accepting THEIR ever changing moral standards as the epitome?

One of the problems I have with Del calling an older male who may have used his position of power to get sex from younger females a "predator" is that:
a)  it not only assumes that the females he allegedly slept with didn't want sex themselves (as if females don't want sex)
b) it assumes that they didn't have an agenda of their own by sleeping with a man of power and authority
c) it also slaps the face of centuries if not millenia of African traditions where males of authority and high achievement were REWARDED with sex from the females of their choice.

For centuries this was seen as a GOOD thing and not only was permitted but in many cases encouraged, until someone (and that someone was not God) told us it was bad.

Who decided that what our ancestors did was bad, and where did THEY (those who made that decision) get the authority to condemn others from?

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1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:
1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

 slaps the face of centuries if not millenia of African traditions that permit and even encourage males of authority and high achievement were REWARDED with sex from the females of their choice.

 

Incell agrees with your point @Pioneer1

 

Before Alek Minassian killed 10 people, the majority of them women, by driving his van into pedestrians on a Toronto street Monday, he posted on Facebook praising mass murderer Elliot Rodger and called for an "Incel Rebellion," an uprising of men who are angry women won't have sex with them

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4 hours ago, Delano said:

Incell agrees with your point @Pioneer1

 

Before Alek Minassian killed 10 people, the majority of them women, by driving his van into pedestrians on a Toronto street Monday, he posted on Facebook praising mass murderer Elliot Rodger and called for an "Incel Rebellion," an uprising of men who are angry women won't have sex with them


???

What does this bit of "seemingly unrelated" information have to do with the two questions I just posed that you clearly have NOT answered yet?


BTW, Elliot hated Black men and even admitted that he was jealous of them because they were having more sex and attracting more women than he was.
He felt because he was half White and half Asian that he was "superior", but the women showed him the truth and he couldn't handle it and started killing them over it.

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@Pioneer1  Well 18 might be too young for some and others can deal with it at an even younger age.  I do however think, as a culture, we do a pretty poor job of educating young people about sex -- on every level. 

 

We send mixed and contradictory signals to young people and many are harmed as a result; by contracting serious STD's, having unwanted pregnancies, or just having a crappy experience because one or both partners have not idea how to please each other.

 

I guess by the time someone is 18 they are old enough to begin to figure it out on there own which I suspect most of us have to do...

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More than just the physical aspect of sex, one of the biggest focuses I think we need to pay attention to as AfroAmericans are the moral and ethical aspects.

Some of the biggest problems faced in the AfroAmerican community revolve around reckless and improper sexual activity.

Male/female relationships.
Child abuse
Homosexuality and it's acceptance in the Black community
Sexually transmitted diseases
Unwed pregnacies and the single parent families that are produced by them.

I believe many of these social pathologies are as a direct result of AfroAmericans as a group TRYING to copy Caucasians and adopt Caucasians morality, ethics, and social/sexual habits instead of developing those of our own.

 

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On 12/20/2018 at 8:58 AM, Pioneer1 said:

1. Is it that 18 and 19 are  too young for sexual activity OR is it that THIS SOCIETY ISN'T PROPERLY PREPARING 18 and 19 year olds mentally and socially for what nature has designed them to do at that age?

 

@Pioneer1 Yes, I think what you posed here is part of the problem in that society isn't properly preparing 18 and 19 year olds mentally and socially for what hature has designed them to do at that age. And even then, at 18+, I think it is still up to the individual, if he are she, is mature enough to handle it.

 

perhaps recreational sex would be seen as just another part of celebrating their newness at adulthood like responsible drinking or getting the right to vote.

 

I don't know about that, because of this world that we live in today. I don't think that it revolves only around the 18+ year old, but how this government has shaped us to view Sex. Because of White Supremacy [ie. also White Supremacy that livew within many AfroAmericans too!] we have been conditioned to use Sex and Sexuality as a method of DOMINATION and etc. Sex has become like 'a dirty word' when in reality, it should be a positive experience.

 

 

2. More importantly in my opinion, WHERE are we as AfroAmericans getting our values and opinions about the appropriateness of sexual expression from?

 

I do believe that we are getting these values from White Supremacist, but now though, we are getting these values from Blacks too. if our ancestors were doing right, then we wouldn't be confused today. I believe our problems today stem from our ancestors too.

 

 

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Chev

I don't know about that, because of this world that we live in today. I don't think that it revolves only around the 18+ year old, but how this government has shaped us to view Sex. Because of White Supremacy [ie. also White Supremacy that livew within many AfroAmericans too!] we have been conditioned to use Sex and Sexuality as a method of DOMINATION and etc. Sex has become like 'a dirty word' when in reality, it should be a positive experience.


You're correct that many use sex as a form of Domination.
But if that's their only tool.....can you blame them?

This is why I don't have a problem with prostitution in and off itsef (as long as it's not forced).
Some people's only source of power and control over themselves or their only immediate way to make money IS through sex and having sex with others in exchange for favors.

I wouldn't take that away from them because "I" thought it was wrong that that they shouldn't be doing it.

If it's going to help them feed their kids and keep the lights on in the house, unless I promised to do it for them.....I'm going to let them do their thing.

 

 

 

 

I do believe that we are getting these values from White Supremacist, but now though, we are getting these values from Blacks too. if our ancestors were doing right, then we wouldn't be confused today. I believe our problems today stem from our ancestors too.


You've made an EXCELLENT point.

People often confuse being "nice" with doing the right thing.

I don't care how nice you are or what your religious beliefs are, if you are in a position to be defeated and enslaved or slaughtered then you did something "wrong".
Not necessarily MORALLY wrong....but socially or politically wrong.....because if you didn't you wouldn't have been defeated and enslaved.

If you're walking down the street with your family and a man attacks you all and kills them, YOU did something wrong.
You may have not KNOWN what the right thing to do was.
You may have seen yourself as helpless.
But because there's a solution to every problem there was SOMETHING you could have done (whether you knew what that something was or not) that could have saved your family.

Do you understand the point I'm making Chev?

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5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

But because there's a solution to every problem...

Solution to every problem?  Reaction is not a solution.  

 

On 12/22/2018 at 5:42 AM, Chevdove said:

I do believe that we are getting these values from White Supremacist, but now though, we are getting these values from Blacks too. if our ancestors were doing right, then we wouldn't be confused today. I believe our problems today stem from our ancestors too.

The advisability of values should be determined by the results and not categorized by color.  In the ghetto culture, black people do "what comes naturally" and ignore "white" values, and the result is not positive.  There is no black or white scientific proof that straight men can be turned into homosexuals by outside influences, but the baby mama/baby daddy lifestyle which involves absentee father figures is what really has an impact of black males. White society is not forcing inner city blacks to engage in the free-wheeling sex that results in indiscriminate breeding, all in the name of blacks indulging their supposedly super-charged sexual instincts.  And, of course, any attempt by whites to encourage birth control, create suspicion of genocide in the minds of afro-centrists.  In reality, blacks have their own personal code of conduct, and that accounts for the class divide among them.   

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Cynique

 

In the ghetto culture, black people do "what comes naturally" and ignore "white" values, and the result is not positive........... In reality, blacks have their own personal code of conduct, and that accounts for the class divide among them
 

This is not true.

Except for a relatively few independant minds, most AfroAmericans whether they are in the ghetto or living in the suburbs may not have a Caucasian standing over them directly telling them what to do BUT most of them are Christians and heavily involved in the Church.

And so Caucasian values are injected into the AfroAmerican mindset by proxy THROUGH Christianity.....especially the Western European versions.

On top of that, most people in society get their morals from LAWS; they determine what is "right" or "wrong" based on what is currently legal or illegal.

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16 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

In the ghetto culture, black people do "what comes naturally" and ignore "white" values, and the result is not positive........... In reality, blacks have their own personal code of conduct, and that accounts for the class divide among them
 

This is not true.

Your ongoing obsession with white values inhibiting  the natural behavior that, according to you, are in the DNA of "Afro-Americans" when it comes to their sexual nature, is what prompts what i said about the ghetto lifestyle.  Furthermore, values are guidelines.  They are not carved in stone, and everybody, including black middle-class people, distill from society's values what becomes their personal code in regard to their morality, taking into consideration how they need to conduct themselves when it comes to projecting a respectable facade.  The biggest influence Christianity has on  black and white folks is an affinity for hypocrisy.  

16 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

And so Caucasian values are injected into the AfroAmerican mindset by proxy THROUGH Christianity.....especially the Western European versions.

On top of that, most people in society get their morals from LAWS; they determine what is "right" or "wrong" based on what is currently legal or illegal.

Oh, puleeze. Be specific about what white Christian/European values, which are loosely aligned with legal behavior, are in conflict with what are the "true" values of  black people.  You have an inexhaustible supply of hot air to  release into the atmosphere.  

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8 hours ago, Cynique said:

 

Oh, puleeze. Be specific about what white Christian/European values, which are loosely aligned with legal behavior, are in conflict with what are the "true" values of  black people.  You have an inexhaustible supply of hot air to  release into the atmosphere.  


Polygamy for one.

Most men of African descent are POLYGAMOUS by nature and Christian/Western society attempts to SUPPRESS this natural desire by either making it illegal or making it shameful and socially unacceptable.

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10 hours ago, Cynique said:

The biggest influence influence Christianity has on  black and white folks is an affinity for hypocrisy.  

 

Sad but often true.

 

On 12/20/2018 at 8:23 PM, Pioneer1 said:

I believe many of these social pathologies are as a direct result of AfroAmericans as a group TRYING to copy Caucasians and adopt Caucasians morality, ethics, and social/sexual habits instead of developing those of our own.

 

This is true too and is a consequence of living in a society founded on the genocide of the indigenous peoples and the enslavement of Africans and the moral hypocrisy pure evil required to pull it off.

 

It is not just Black people who are effected; all of us are effected.  We don't really have any "vales" as a nation.  Look at who we elected president. We lag all the developed nations in education. Our best and brightest minds work for Facebook and on wall street. We are increasingly becoming a morally vacuous country -- even white men are committing suicide in greater numbers than ever before.

 

Human sexuality is a complex combination genetics and environment it always has been.  If there is a greater incidence of homosexuality it probably is all the chemicals put in our environment and food that is the culprit, not some evil cabal white racists.

 

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@Pioneer1 @TroyMy response to your generalization about what "most" African American men want is what most African American men, who are racial hybrids  as a result of slavery, want is one wife.  They may all be playas when single but once they decided upon their own that they want to marry and have kids, they are satisfied with one mate because this works better when you don't live in a grass hut in the jungle. Otherwise, they remain bachelors and play the field.  This is not only true of black men, it is true of the ones of all the other ethnicities in America.  And, again, i remind you that common law marriages are recognized by the courts, so these studs can have any variation of polygamy they choose.  As i also said, values are guidelines; they are not carved in stone.  People live by their own personal moral code, and exercise discretion when it comes to their sex lives so as to not expose their hypocrisy.   All you have to do is to look around you and observe how everybody in America does their own thing.

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I hear you @Cynique.  In some circles the values are indeed carved in stone, however one could not divine this based upon behavior. 

 

Consider orthodox communities, evangelicals or even the NOI.  Their rules are crystal clear.  However don't try to judge this based code based upon any individual's behavior in that group. 

 

People are unique and will live by their own rules even risking great punishment. I'm basically saying what you're saying but moving the emphasis from the values and placing in solely on the individual.

 

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Troy

You're right that ALL of us are effected, but everyone's not effected in the same way.
Kind of like alcohol.
Caucasians drink alcohol and gave it to the Native Americans....but that same alcohol that causes most Caucasians to celebrate and get happy ended up devastating Native American society and turning many of them into depressed alcoholics. 
Likewise......
Caucasian culture and values like monogamy and the nuclear family have proven to be good for many Caucasians and helped them to live stable and productive lives, but has also proven NOT to work for most Africans and has resulted in broken homes and dysfunctional families where the women don't trust the men and the men are forced to lie in order to be sexually fullfilled.




 

Human sexuality is a complex combination genetics and environment it always has been. If there is a greater incidence of homosexuality it probably is all the chemicals put in our environment and food that is the culprit, not some evil cabal white racists.

I agree.
But the question is who put the harmful chemcials IN the environment in the first place?

 

 

 


 

Cynique


My response to your generalization about what "most" African American men want is what most African American men, who are racial hybrids as a result of slavery, want is one wife. They may all be playas when single but once they decided upon their own that they want to marry and have kids, they are satisfied with one mate because this works better when you don't live in a grass hut in the jungle. Otherwise, they remain bachelors and play the field.


Once again, you're right AND wrong.

Yes, most AfroAmerican men want a good woman at home once they are ready to settle down.....but that's so that we can have a stable home to raise our offspring in and come home to. But MOST (certainly not all) still have an active sex drive and desire sex with other women from time to time. They just don't want any relationship and very little emotional attachments; those are reserved for his "main" or his wife.

You're making the mistake of assuming you know what men want or how they feel by looking strictly at their behavior or what they are "allowed" to get away with.


 

 

All you have to do is to look around you and observe how everybody in America does their own thing.


If everyone in America were doing their own thing and expresing themselves as they wished, there wouldn't be so many "support groups" and psychologists catering to people who feel they are unable to express their "real" selves in their environment.

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9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Yes, most AfroAmerican men want a good woman at home once they are ready to settle down.....but that's so that we can have a stable home to raise our offspring in and come home to. But MOST (certainly not all) still have an active sex drive and desire sex with other women from time to time. They just don't want any relationship and very little emotional attachments; those are reserved for his "main" or his wife.

You're making the mistake of assuming you know what men want or how they feel by looking strictly at their behavior or what they are "allowed" to get away with.

And you are making the mistake of thinking that you can speak for married white men inasmuch as you are assuming that they don't desire sex with other women from time to time. All men have these urges.  It's called "fantasizing."  Furthermore, what you refer to as "Afro-American" men are hybrid men of color who have mixed blood as a result of the miscegenation spawned by slavery so you  aren't qualified to speak with authority on this subject since you insist on applying what you have decided are African customs to these men.  And it's not like black men are so oversexed that they are harassing women in the work place more than white ones are.

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Cynique

 

And you are making the mistake of thinking that you can speak for married white men inasmuch as you are assuming that they don't desire sex with other women from time to time.

Who claimed that married White men DON'T desire sex with other women (or men) from time to time?
Did you read where I said that, or are you simply MAKING UP a statement and attributing it to me simply to argue against it, as usual?
Despite your strawman assumptions, I'm not focused on what White men do or don't do sexually, as long as they don't try to FORCE it on my community.
My focus is on what's best for AfroAmericans.....both male and female.



 

 

 

 Furthermore, what you refer to as "Afro-American" men are hybrid men of color who have mixed blood as a result of the miscegenation spawned by slavery


Thanks for tell us what we ALREADY know.

If you would pay attention to what I write instead of just cherry picking points for disagreement, you would have acknowledged the fact that instead of always using the terms "Black" or "African" for our people which suggests a pure racial stock......I usually use the term "AfroAmerican" as an ETHNICITY because it encompasses all descendants of American slavery who are of African descent regardless of the varying amounts of African ancestry they may have.

 

 

 

so you aren't qualified to speak with authority on this subject since you insist on applying what you have decided are African customs to these men. And it's not like black men are so oversexed that they are harassing women in the work place more than white ones are.

 

The fact that you call being polygamous "oversexed" is a clear example of the problem with AfroAmericans taking on the Caucasian mindset and moral code.

How do we know that men who desire sex with multiple women are the ones who have a problem that need to be fixed?

Who's to say that men who only desire ONE woman may infact be the ones with somethin wrong with THEM?
....like a weak physical disposition or imbalanced hormones that may be affecting their sex drive?

It' s a known fact that for most men, when they get elderly their sex drive tends to diminish as well as other aspect of their health.

So it could be that NATURE says a strong sex drive in which a man wants to run around having sex with multiple women is actually a GOOD thing and a symbol of robust health.

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@Pioneer1My argument is not a straw man one.  You are, and always have been, coming from a place as the "expert" on the sexual  behavior of black men which you contrast to that of European men who you claim don't have the hearty sexual appetite of black men. That ongoing attitude is what i keep in mind when arguing with you.  You continue to complain how this country's culture stifles the natural sexuality of black people whose African blood makes them polygamous, according to you.  So you are focused on white people whose values you don't want imposed on black people in this society, because you assume their sexual habits are different from those of black people. And, since you are aware of the mixed blood lines are people of color in this country then why do you continue to want to characterize them as polygamous Africans?  Why don't you just mind your own business and stop trying to tell these assimilated slave descendants what comes natural to them. You're so busy trying to portray black men as super studs that you can't conceive of the idea of that sexuality varies from person to person and is a human issue.  And i do pay attention to what you say. That's why i  continue to disagree with you.  You don't know what you're talking about any more than anyone else on this board. Everybody but you knows this.   

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Cynique


My argument is not a straw man one. You are, and always have been, coming from a place as the "expert" on the sexual behavior of black men which you contrast to that of European men who you claim don't have the hearty sexual appetite of black men.
 

Yes your argument IS a strawman, because you are attributing words and positions that I have not said or endorsed.
Can you find anywhere me "claiming to be an expert" or White or Black male sexuality?
If not, how can you attibute that claim to me and then proceed to argue on it's validity?

 

 

 

 

That ongoing attitude is what i keep in mind when arguing with you. You continue to complain how this country's culture stifles the natural sexuality of black people whose African blood makes them polygamous, according to you. So you are focused on white people whose values you don't want imposed on black people in this society, because you assume their sexual habits are different from those of black people.

It's more than just an assumption.

If Africans and Europeans had the same sexual habits then you would find the same sexual and marital customs independantly between the two respective continents Africa and Europe.
However historically before having major contact with eachother history has shown that MONOGAMY and HOMOSEXUALITY and CELIBACY were common sexual characteristics in Europe that were even encouraged in various European cultures and religions.
While in Africa POLYGAMY was widely practiced and encouraged among men who could afford to do so and even African religions permitted this.

 

 

 

 

And, since you are aware of the mixed blood lines are people of color in this country then why do you continue to want to characterize them as polygamous Africans? Why don't you just mind your own business and stop trying to tell these assimilated slave descendants what comes natural to them. You're so busy trying to portray black men as super studs that you can't conceive of the idea of that sexuality varies from person to person and is a human issue.

 

Did I say there was no difference between individuals INSIDE and OUTSIDE of different races and ethnicities or that all Black men were superstuds?
Or is these more strawman arguments that you are attempting to pin on me to divert from the legitimacy of my actual focus?

No need to answer/respond.
That question was rhetorical as I already know the answer, lol.

Carry on with your Scare Crow making......

Image result for scarecrow

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12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Yes your argument IS a strawman, because you are attributing words and positions that I have not said or endorsed.
Can you find anywhere me "claiming to be an expert" or White or Black male sexuality?
If not, how can you attibute that claim to me and then proceed to argue on it's validity?

 

There is, indeed, a need to respond since  you are admitting that you are not an expert on the subject of black sexuality, and that all of the past assertions you made about the testosterone-fueled hyper-sexuality  of most black men and their proclivity for polygamy, are just BS.  Plus, none of  your explanations about European values being unnatural for Africans carry any credible authority. Bottom line, all of your afro-centric  pontificating about the structured culture in this country inhibiting the true nature of its African diaspora is a bunch of drivel and should be disregarded.  Glad we got that out of the way.  Hope this means that in the future,  you will spare us all your non-expert babbling on these subjects, along with the conspiracy theories about  white supremacists. Thanks for providing the responses that proved that my argument wasn't a straw man one.  

 

Now take your raggedly little scarecrow and be on your way.  Buh Bye.  

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Dorothy


There is, indeed, a need to respond since you are admitting that you are not an expert on the subject of black sexuality,


It's not an "admission" because I never claimed anything to the contrary.

 

 

and that all of the past assertions you made about the testosterone-fueled hyper-sexuality of most black men and their proclivity for polygamy, are just BS.


Don't remember ever using the word "hyper-sexuality" except in referencing someone else's statement.
I don't use terms like "hypersexuality" because what may be normam for AfroAmerican men may be seen as "hyper" to others with a weaker sexuality.

Again, this just illustrustrates the importance of AfroAmericans developing their own sexual and moral values instead of adopting and incorporating foreign values from those outside of our community.

 

 

 

Plus, none of your explanations about European values being unnatural for Africans carry any credible authority.

If observing the majority of AfroAmerican families that are broken or dysfunctional doesn't provide enough credible authority that imitating European values has led to disasterous results in the AfroAmerican community....I'm not sure what more credible evidence you need.

 


 

Bottom line, all of your afro-centric pontificating about the structured culture in this country inhibiting the true nature of its African diaspora is a bunch of drivel and should be disregarded. Glad we got that out of the way.
 

The first thing we need to get out of the way is all of that damn straw and hay you've been dropping all over the floor whilst toiling away constructing your silly ass straw men to practice punching, kicking, and bullying around.......since you clearly lack the ability to challenge REAL opponents, lol.
 

 

Image result for scarecrows

 

 

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BLAH,BLAH, BLAH. Yada, yada, yada. Always did say pioneer exists in a make-believe world where, like the pathetic Wizard of OZ, he fancies himself  a font of wisdom while hiding behind a curtain, hovering over a cauldron, stirring up an endless supply of the hot air  he inhales and expels in a futile attempt to impress.  😂   

 

Oz+behind+curtain.jpg

 Below is the guy who doesn't have the spine to acknowledge what was the gist and essence of the beliefs he's been preaching on this site for years. Instead he tries to back off from his past contentions  by saying they weren't expressed in his exact words. in a sorry attempt  to prove that my drawing from his beliefs to make my relevant point on the subject under discussion was a straw man argument,

1685169054_wizardofoz.jpg.6d23ed5966c27975850be48dd96aa389.jpg

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Let me make this simple..........

I've said and STILL maintain that African men and AfroAmerican men in particular tend to have higher testosterone rates than Caucasian and East Asian men.
Again, I say ON AVERAGE because there are exceptions.
So-called science ALSO backs this up.
Most scientific journals will confirm that historically AfroAmerican men have had higher testosterone rates than Caucasian men.

Testosterone is the primary chemical that governs a man's masculinity and govern's BOTH a man's and woman's sex drive. This is a biological fact that is also confirmed by science.

If AfroAmerican men have a stronger sex drive and masculinity than both AfroAmerican women AND even Caucasian men....on average...then why should we allow either one of those groups tell US how and how often WE should be having sex??
Or with how many partners we should be having sex with?

ONLY another Black man is qualified to advise, lecture, or instruct ME (or any other Black man) on my sexuality.

 

I don't need someone who feels that an older man who loves having sex with multiple young women is a "predator",  giving me MY morals!

Read this loud and clear:
In MY book of morals.....as long as he's not forcing himself on them.....I ADMIRE the fact that a 70 year old man CAN STILL HAVE SEX with and impregnate 19 and 20 year old women!
Further, I HOPE I'm blessed by The Supreme Being to live, be healthy, and be able to do so too at 70+ years old and older!



Black men (including one on this site....lol) should STOP accepting Caucasian's or women's values and morality and start using the brain that The Supreme Being gave them to develope THEIR OWN values and moral codes!

As far as these other self-righteous groups who attempt to hold AfroAmerican men to some sort of arbitrary legalist or moralist standard.....
When they start holding some of these wicked Catholic priests with their loooooong history of abusing children accountable and actually punish them, maybe THEN they may hold some credibility.
 

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@Pioneer1 It doesn't matter what you advocate especially since your claims are restricted to some men, but not all and are based on certain scientific findings,  but not others, - a mish-mash manifesto of blather. The obvious question is what if another black man replaces you on a soap box and does tell you something about black sexuality that conflicts with your beliefs?  If the light-skinned, wavy-haired, violin-playing, testosterone-deficient Farrakhan publicly promoted monogamy would that change your mind?  Huh? Huh? Would that dispel your daydreams of humping a harem of post pubescent teen-aged girls?

 

You just can't get past imposing your ideas on other people, for some reason believing that you are empowered to do this. Who are you?  just some guy who has convinced himself that assimilated, bi-racial slave descendants are more influenced by their Negroid instincts than their Caucasoid ones, - a malcontent who rejects white values but accepts white science when it suits him. Nor will you acknowledge that exercising discretion enables people of any color to indulge in whatever kind of sexual activity they choose.  Instead, you waste your time whining about society establishing rules designed to, among other things, protect vulnerable women and children from aggressive men.

 

And talk about a straw man argument, where are you coming from when accusing white society of restricting or condemning the black male population of playas and cheaters and sugar daddies???  Dees niggas is out dere  freely satisfying their sexual appetites, while you're standing around talking a lot of smack.  As far as the crimes of  priests are concerned they are, indeed, being excoriated both within and outside the ranks of the Catholic Church which is currently in a state of turmoil over on this crisis!   And,  pray tell, when did the Catholic church ever care enough one way  or another about the sex habits of black men to chastise them about promiscuity??  Puleeze.  

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On 12/25/2018 at 3:44 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Caucasians drink alcohol and gave it to the Native Americans....but that same alcohol that causes most Caucasians to celebrate and get happy ended up devastating Native American society and turning many of them into depressed alcoholics. 

 

@Pioneer1 LOLPioneer1, this may seem like an odd response, but I tell you, your explanation is what I have heard and believe too!--But now, I find that even in this answer, it was given to us by Europeans! LOL. We have been spoon fed. On the one hand, I agree and it is true about Native Americans being tricked and given 'fire water' and a wagon full of tobacco, but on the other hand, AFTER BEING MARRIED INTO THIS HERITAGE, we are made to be BLINDED to other issue too. Ethnic people need to take some responsibility too. It is true that some of these tribal people have drunk themselves into a stupor, but they had other problems too, that the Europeans saw and this is how they were able to take advantage of them and defeat them to a great extent. Some of these tribal chiefs were horrible womanizers and they oppress their women so bad, I feel that in some respect, they got what they deserved. 

 

On 12/23/2018 at 9:53 AM, Pioneer1 said:

But if that's their only tool.....can you blame them?

 

LOL. Yes, I do blame them! 

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4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If AfroAmerican men have a stronger sex drive and masculinity than both AfroAmerican women AND even Caucasian men....on average...then why should we allow either one of those groups tell US how and how often WE should be having sex??

 

@Pioneer1 Where is the proof of this!? I never heard of this. 

 

If AfroAmerican men have a strong sex drive that you claim is based on science, then it would seem obvious that AfroAmerican women correlate to this too!

Again, I will use the track and field sport as an example. Black men are on average going to be at the finish line, and guess what? Black women are on average going to be at the finish line too! We have similar spirits. So, it would be completely wrong for you to think that your sex drive, as a Black man can be higher than a Black woman. That doesn't make any sense to me. I don't understand how you can believe this. 

 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Or with how many partners we should be having sex with?

 

Pioneer, did you ever consider that it may not be 'strong sex drive' that is a cause of discrimination against AFroAmerican men, but that they oppressed Black women and could have controlled their sex drive but just chose not to, that caused them to be thrown down and into slavery? You don't see the damaging affect this 'sex drive' used to dominate AfroAmerican women that could possibly had led to their downfall? Or, am I missing a point here. You wouldn't have a problem with a female sex partner should she tell you that she wanted to have multiple sex partners in addition to you?

 

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On 12/28/2018 at 1:23 PM, Pioneer1 said:

If AfroAmerican men have a stronger sex drive and masculinity than both AfroAmerican women AND even Caucasian men

 

@Pioneer1 these is no science to support this because there is only one race.  Now it is possible you may find, or are using, information from a century ago. This was pseudoscience used to justify the subhuman hyper-sexualized Black male.  A creature that white women had to be protected from and who it was perfectly acceptable to "breed" indiscriminately with other enslaved women.

 

Again so called Black people are the most genetically diverse people on the planet.  There are white people more genetically similar to Black people than other Black people. Again, if you believe in the "Myth" (forget that BS definition of a "myth" being something that is true that never happened) of race you'll come up with flawed conclusions.

 

Of course there are cultures that practice polygamy, but this is cultural and as nothing to do with one's skin color (how you define "race").

 

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Chev

I understand your point about people of color needing to take responsibility for their own behavior instead of using the excuse that they were simply "tricked" into indulging in alcohol by Caucasians; however in order for a person to be RESPONS-IBLE (response - able) they must be ABLE to adequately respond.


Ignorance (lack of knowledge) often impairs your ability to properly respond to a given situation.
Alcohol was unfamiiar to them and because of this they didn't know the dangers of consuming it nor did they initially know or understand the reasons they were being given it.
Like handing a child poisoned candy.....how can we hold them responsible for accepting something they are too ignorant to understand is harmful to them?

But Karma is something else.
Look at how the Opiod Epidemic is destroying Caucasian communities all over North America and Europe today.

 



LOL. Yes, I do blame them!


But why?
Why would you "blame" a person who uses sex if that's their only means (so they think anyway) for achieving power and success in life?

If a person is good at playing basketball and uses it to gain power and wealth, is that wrong?
If a person is good at real-estate and uses those skills to gain power and wealth, is that wrong?
And if not, why condemn a person who uses sex (for example a striper or prostitute) in order to secure wealth and power for themselves?
Is the act of sex somehow worse than the act of basketball or selling property?

 

 

 

Pioneer, did you ever consider that it may not be 'strong sex drive' that is a cause of discrimination against AFroAmerican men, but that they oppressed Black women and could have controlled their sex drive but just chose not to, that caused them to be thrown down and into slavery?


First you actually offered TWO considerations:
1 The oppression of Black women by Black men caused them to be thrown down and into slavery.
2. Black men choosing not to control their sex drives got them thrown down and into slavery.

And no, honestly I haven't really considered either.
It's very hard to prove history because neither one of us were around to verify the information but if you can provide PROOF or COMPELLING EVIDENCE that the situation Africans went through being enslaved and having much of their lands colonized by Caucasians was caused by their treatment of their own women AND/OR because they chose not to control their sex drive......I'll consider it.

One question I have is if Black women's mistreatment was the crime itself, then why were Black women allowed to be mistreated (enslaved, colonized, ect....) as part of the punishment FOR the crime along with Black men?

 

 

You wouldn't have a problem with a female sex partner should she tell you that she wanted to have multiple sex partners in addition to you?

 

I am involved with and have been involved with since my teens.....females who have had multiple sex partners besides me.
I've met many females who I found attractive who either already had a boyfriend OR were completely single and doing their own thing and didn't want a relationship with anyone but I found them so attractive I was willing to be intimate with them anyway from time to time.

And look at how many men are running around having sex with or TRYING to have sex with women who are already married or have boyfriends.   As if a woman having multiple partners is really THAT big of a deal.

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On 1/1/2019 at 7:56 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Like handing a child poisoned candy.....how can we hold them responsible for accepting something they are too ignorant to understand is harmful to them?

 

@Pioneer1 I Dunno, maybe in some regards but, drinking 'fire water' goes back for thousands and thousands of years though and it was damaging back then too.

 

But Karma is something else.
Look at how the Opiod Epidemic is destroying Caucasian communities all over North America and Europe today.

 

Yes, this is amazing! 

 

Is the act of sex somehow worse than the act of basketball or selling property?

 

Yes for certain reasons. For one example, HEALTH CARE, the sicknesses and diseases that are associated with indiscriminate sex can be a burden in many ways on other people. It can be a burden on tax payers too, IMO. Also, it brings negative repercussions to children in various ways. Crack Babies can apply to this topic. Being a basketball player is not the same in comparison to this issue of sexual freedom. 

 

One question I have is if Black women's mistreatment was the crime itself, then why were Black women allowed to be mistreated (enslaved, colonized, ect....) as part of the punishment FOR the crime along with Black men?

 

Now, that is a good question! I believe that both genders have a part in being overthrown and enslaved. I believe that we today are being flattered and conditioned to fight on the basis of gender conflicts, and that when it comes down to the truth, both genders have a part in how we as AFrican-typed people have been subdued. 

 

And no, honestly I haven't really considered either.
It's very hard to prove history because neither one of us were around to verify the information but if you can provide PROOF or COMPELLING EVIDENCE that the situation Africans went through being enslaved and having much of their lands colonized by Caucasians was caused by their treatment of their own women AND/OR because they chose not to control their sex drive......I'll consider it.

 

 

Well, I think that there is a lot of history about this but it has been distorted. Wjhat immediately comes to mind for me, is the 18th Dynasty in ancient Egypt. 

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The Beginning of this 18th Dynasty was founded by Kamose and Ahmose and their mother was a great influence in their rise to power. And what many people don't highlight but actually overlook is that soonafter, this dynasty was completly usurped. AFter the pharaoh lost his son, and he had no male heir, his daughter married a foreign 'Black' man but this man later dominated over his wife and he assumed that dynasty name and continued onward. This would be the beginning of problems. this man, THUTMOSE, came from the NODEAST [ie Northeast] civilizations of HURRIANS and ... long story short... it became a Matriarchal System. Soon Thutmose III who warred up north in Assyria, Mitanni and etc. brought a bunch of Mitannian woman [ie. WHITE WOMEN] into his court and it was this man, that threw down his own ORIGINAL EGYPTIAN WOMEN [ie BLACK WOMEN] and replaced them with these white women. 

 

THUTMOSE III elevated Mittanian women and he took his young son around Egyptian in a new campaign. This new campaign he struck out the name of HATSHEPSUT and etc. he closed up her pillars, and more importantly, he STOPPED addressing the royal egyptian women with their ancient INHERITED TITLES. He took the royal attire of the Egyptian woman that were passed down through the generations, and gave them to his white-Mitannian women, ... and this why today, many Black Africans are obssessed over idols like QUEEN TIYE--because they think she was a Black AFrican woman, but she was NOT!!! She was wearing an 'African wig' taken from the original Egyptian women and given to her and others. Then after Thutmose III did this, his son was even more worse than he had been... But the other part of this story is this-- the Egyptian women were also to blame, because they also had an obssession with foreign men. Even though Hatshesut is hailed today, however, she was the first one in during that time to enslave African people on a ship that sailed south into the land of Punt and thereabouts. It was during her rule that Nubians and Syrians began to be enslaved. So, when Thutmose III came of age, he got rid of Hatshepsuts court official, Senemut, and this started him on his rampage... This is just one example of how we today are suffering from the repercussions of gender conflicts of the past. 

 

 

And look at how many men are running around having sex with or TRYING to have sex with women who are already married or have boyfriends.   As if a woman having multiple partners is really THAT big of a deal.

 

I'm speechless! LOL. 

 

I find it hard to grasp though, that you have never been so in love with a woman that would not want some type of commitment. 

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7 hours ago, Chevdove said:

 

I find it hard to grasp though, that you have never been so in love with a woman that would not want some type of commitment. 

 

Me too.

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@Chevdove

 

Quote

 


The Beginning of this 18th Dynasty was founded by Kamose and Ahmose and their mother was a great influence in their rise to power. And what many people don't highlight but actually overlook is that soonafter, this dynasty was completly usurped. AFter the pharaoh lost his son, and he had no male heir, his daughter married a foreign 'Black' man but this man later dominated over his wife and he assumed that dynasty name and continued onward. This would be the beginning of problems. this man, THUTMOSE, came from the NODEAST [ie Northeast] civilizations of HURRIANS and ... long story short... it became a Matriarchal System. Soon Thutmose III who warred up north in Assyria, Mitanni and etc. brought a bunch of Mitannian woman [ie. WHITE WOMEN] into his court and it was this man, that threw down his own ORIGINAL EGYPTIAN WOMEN [ie BLACK WOMEN] and replaced them with these white women.

THUTMOSE III elevated Mittanian women and he took his young son around Egyptian in a new campaign. This new campaign he struck out the name of HATSHEPSUT and etc. he closed up her pillars, and more importantly, he STOPPED addressing the royal egyptian women with their ancient INHERITED TITLES. He took the royal attire of the Egyptian woman that were passed down through the generations, and gave them to his white-Mitannian women, ... and this why today, many Black Africans are obssessed over idols like QUEEN TIYE--because they think she was a Black AFrican woman, but she was NOT!!! She was wearing an 'African wig' taken from the original Egyptian women and given to her and others. Then after Thutmose III did this, his son was even more worse than he had been... But the other part of this story is this-- the Egyptian women were also to blame, because they also had an obssession with foreign men. Even though Hatshesut is hailed today, however, she was the first one in during that time to enslave African people on a ship that sailed south into the land of Punt and thereabouts. It was during her rule that Nubians and Syrians began to be enslaved. So, when Thutmose III came of age, he got rid of Hatshepsuts court official, Senemut, and this started him on his rampage... This is just one example of how we today are suffering from the repercussions of gender conflicts of the past.

 


:rolleyes:

 

If....according to your story...Hatshepsut was the one who started the enslavement of Nubians and Syrians....and Thutmose III (the same one who brought in Caucasian women and mistreated African women) was the one who put an end to her era.....then what I get from this story is that some African leader who had a fetish for White women was the one who brought an end to the works of a woman who was enslaving Africans, LOL.

I'm sure that wasn't your intended point, but that's what one would gather from it upon close examination.

 

 

 

 

 

I find it hard to grasp though, that you have never been so in love with a woman that would not want some type of commitment.


That wasn't your question.

Your question was about my willingness to have sex with a woman who has multiple sexual partners, and I told you that I and other men do it all the time in this society.
It's nothing new or unusual.

Your question mentioned nothing about MARRIAGE or LOVE or POSSESSIVENESS.

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"I believe many of these social pathologies are as a direct result of AfroAmericans as a group TRYING to copy Caucasians and adopt Caucasians morality, ethics, and social/sexual habits instead of developing those of our own."

 

Oh really? So, you believe most of the dysfunction found in American Negro culture is a direct result of Negroes attempting to emulate white people and white culture? Is what you really believe?

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On 1/4/2019 at 2:40 PM, Troy said:

I find it hard to grasp though, that you have never been so in love with a woman that would not want some type of commitment

I don't find this hard to understand 

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Xeon

Oh really? So, you believe most of the dysfunction found in American Negro culture is a direct result of Negroes attempting to emulate white people and white culture? Is what you really believe?


Yes.....yes.....and yes again, Lol.
 

 

 

 

 


Xeon, Troy, Del

 

Since we have 3 other "presumably"  AfroAmerican men in this thread besides myself, I have an idea......

Instead of JUST contending my opinions and what I believe are the problems with gender and sexual relations in the AfroAmerican community.....why don't YOU state what YOU gentlemen think the problems are and what's preventing the majority of our people from forming and having maintaining families and long term relationships between the men and women.

Don't be like those negroes who used to stand around in the crowd jeering and heckling in disagreement with Malik Shabaaz or Marcus Garvey while they were preaching to their people and offering what they thought were the solutions.
Just questioning and challenging everything these men said INSTEAD OF offering their own opinions and solutions.
Clearly there are problems that need to be solved, so if I'm wrong or off base TELL ME WHAT the problems and solutions are.

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20 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

African leader who had a fetish for White women was the one who brought an end to the works of a woman who was enslaving Africans, LOL.

 

@Pioneer1 If that is what you get from it, then that is okay. I think that your summation is surface though, and you are not looking at the deeper issues. 

Even though Europeans have mis-dated the records, and we today, cannot translate Egyptian heiroglyphs well, this ancient historical period is well documented.

 

I RELY UPON SCHOLARS LIKE THE LATE Dr. HIBBARD and IVAN SERTIMA and I agree with his assessment about Nefertiti and etc. being 'a White' [ie ASSYRIAN WOMAN]. 

 

I only gave you one example and the 18th Dynasty is pivotal in the issue of WHITE SUPREMACY and COLORISM but there are much more ancient accounts that reach back thousands of years before this time period. For you to conclude that a White obssessed African pharaoh and a White obssessed African woman dignitary being put down as being justified for having gender hatred as valid, is not my assessment. But this type of history may help us to understand our issues today.

 

I'm sure that wasn't your intended point, but that's what one would gather from it upon close examination.

 

No, @Pioneer1, actually CLOSE EXAMINATION would involve you doing more research! If you look deeper into the history about this time period when Egypt was a dominant super power and civilization, you come to other conclusions. 

 

Did I lie about Hapshepsut's voyage to the 'land of Punt'!? No!!!

Was this expedition well documented? YES.

ARe there other references about the thousands of Syrian captives and Nubian captives being forced into Egypt during this time period? YES!

Are there other records of the manual labors that went into raising these massive stone pillars of the Egyptians including Hatshepsut and etc. ? YES

ARe there other records about STONE QUARRYING and how back breaking it was to have to take a hard obsidian rocka and POUND and POUND and POUND continually in order to carve a groove into bedrock to raise these pillars for the ancient Egyptians? YES

 

Do you believe that the Egyptian servants that did this hard labor were White like Charlston Heston!? LOL

Maybe you need to do some more close examination.

 

Black-on-Black hatred and gender hatred was encouraged by White Supremacy but Black people have a definite part of our own destruction too. This is what I am highlighting. 

 

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Your question was about my willingness to have sex with a woman who has multiple sexual partners, and I told you that I and other men do it all the time in this society. It's nothing new or unusual.

 

@Pioneer1But, I was still though, making a comment in this regards about commitment and relationships.

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20 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

why don't YOU state what YOU gentlemen think the problems are and what's preventing the majority of our people from forming and having maintaining families and long term relationships between the men and women.

 

Every relationship is different and there are a wide of problems that can plague a relationship. Some are due to external factors but most, i believe, are due to the individuals themselves. As a result, that is where I believe the focus should be placed -- not some nebulous white conspirator or harkening back to African traditions from a millenia ago.

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13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Instead of JUST contending my opinions and what I believe are the problems with gender and sexual relations in the AfroAmerican community.....why don't YOU state what YOU gentlemen think the problems are and what's preventing the majority of our people from forming and having maintaining families and long term relationships between the men and women.

When it comes to "forming and maintaining families and long term relationships", has it occurred to Pioneer that white people are who have a high divorce rate and dysfunctional families and an increase in homosexuality, and that nobody in this country is strictly adhering to these so-call white values he so adamantly rejects. Moreover, the breakdown of the black family stems not from white values but from those black people who lead a loose, multiple-partner lifestyle that Pioneer insists comes natural to them. His assessment of a situation he has concocted in his head proposes out-dated solutions that are neither viable nor grounded in reality.

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