Everything Happens for a Reason

[Troy 2,311]

This is really a follow up to a conversation that divereged from the inherent beauty of Black women to spirituality.

 

Often we hear the phrase, "Everything happens for a reason."

 

The phrase is bandied about so much it is a cliche; a catch-all, used in place of an actual explanation.

 

No matter how bad the event: "Everything happens for a reason." Death of a child, genocide, a fender bender, lost keys, running into an old flame or meeting a new one; "Everything happens for a reason."

 

Of course this means that the Universe, Zeus, Jehovah, or (insert your favorite deity) had a hand in it.

 

Does anyone believe this?  Does everything really happen for a reason?  Why?

[Delano 1,064]

It could that occurrences are not random. Just that the complexity is so high it appears that way. 

 

Also most things are cyclical across different scales. Most things have a frequency hence a number. Numbetdare defined by their position and nothing. 

[Pioneer1 804]

I don't just believe everything happens for a reason, I KNOW it does.
...because every event has a cause (reason).

The question is WHAT was/were the reason(s) that caused the event?

Were they Divine, purely physical, spiritual, cosmic, imaginary, accidental, "other".....or a combination of the afore mentioned.

[Troy 2,311]

2 hours ago, Delano said:

...the complexity is so high it appears that way. 

 

This has to be true (I think) But this does not mean there is a reason for anything, and it means everything that happened or will happen could be determined provided we had the computational power.

[Cynique 2,307]

4 hours ago, Troy said:

Does everything really happen for a reason?  Why?

i don't think so. To believe this is to support the idea of predestination which means that everything has already happened and we are just catching up with  t   it. i think our decisions influence our lives and such decisions are examples of free will, not some external force that is guiding us with an outcome in mind.   i do, however, believe in mental telepathy between individuals but this connection between 2 people on the same wave length  is a whole other dynamic, having more to do with randomness. 

[Troy 2,311]

@Cynique you know if you throw a ball one can determine precisely where it will land given enought information about the weight of the ball, your strength, wind speed, angle of release, etc. It is a relatively minor calculation once you have all the info. 

 

Im suggesting, as Del implied, that even your very decision the throw the ball could be predetermined with enough information. 

 

The idea that you "decided" to throw the ball is an illusion. No different than the ball "deciding" to land on the ground after sailing through the air.

 

 

[Pioneer1 804]

There's a difference between a REASON and a PLAN.
Everything happens for a reason, but there doesn't necessarily have to be an organized plan behind it.
 

But Elijah Muhammad taught that "wise Black scientists" got together and PRE-WROTE the events that were supposed to take place at the beginning of each 25,000 year cycle of history.
If this were true, then it would add credibility to the concept of pre-destination.

[Cynique 2,307]

40 minutes ago, Troy said:

you know if you throw a ball one can determine precisely where it will land given enought information about the weight of the ball, your strength, wind speed, angle of release, etc. It is a relatively minor calculation once you have all the info. 

 

But was it predetermined that i was going to throw the ball?

[Delano 1,064]

My experiences lead me to believe that free will is an illusion. I am also not certain that this life isn't a simulation. Of it were we would have no way of knowing or telling 

[Delano 1,064]

4 hours ago, Troy said:

could be determined provided we had the computational power.

I believe  the biggest leaps in knowledge are due to insight.  Since computers have not been a factor throughout most of history. You could argue that commuters makes research easier and in some cases possible. Yet I still believe insight trumps computational resources. 

 

The Man Who Loved Only Numbers is a biography of the famous mathematician Paul Erdős

3 hours ago, Cynique said:

but this connection between 2 people on the same wave length  is a whole other dynamic, having more to do with randomness.

I am not following what you mean. Can you explain it or give an example. 

[Troy 2,311]

12 hours ago, Cynique said:

But was it predetermined that i was going to throw the ball?

 

Yes, everything including you question to me and the words I'm typing now.  It is all deterministic. As @Delano said our sense of free will is an illusion  -- a elaborate one to be sure.  It is so complex, that to our simple minds it is indistinguishable from free will or randomness.

[Cynique 2,307]

What if you're wrong about this for reasons too complex for you to comprehend?   

[Troy 2,311]

What if you are wrong?  I'm not being trite by saying that. 

 

I could be wrong, but what difference does it make?  The answer is unknowable or rather unproveable.  As @Delano suggests we can use our intuition to gain this insight on this idea, but we will most certainly never be able to prove it.

 

 Again, the ball will fall.  It does not matter if the reason it falls is beyond our comprehension.  In fact. most people have no clue why the ball falls.

[Cynique 2,307]

That's my point.  if everything is too complex and beyond our comprehension then things are reduced to speculation, something everybody can do without being told they are wrong.

[Delano 1,064]

3 hours ago, Cynique said:

That's my point.  if everything is too complex and beyond our comprehension then things are reduced to speculation, something everybody can do without being told they are wrong.

Which is why I say there are no facts or objective reality. 

[Troy 2,311]

@Cynique in the final analysis, at the most granular level, this is true. At a macro level, the kind of things we can observe like the tossing of a ball, we can understand these things.

 

@Delano there are some facts, but probably not an objective reality.

 

Both IMHO 🙂

[Delano 1,064]

Troy how do you figure there are facts, if there's no objective reality? 

[Troy 2,311]

@Delano what temperature does water boil at room temperature at sea level? What is the speed of light in a vacuum? What is 1+1?  

 

We know these things because they are facts. It does does not matter what your objective reality is, these things will always be true, as long as you are in THIS universe... and we are all in this universe.

[Delano 1,064]

Is light a particle or a wave? It depends, doesn't it @Troy.

The constant in E = MC² isn't constant itself.. 

 

Is a black hole a vacuum, and does it alter the speed of light? 

I would have thought you would have remembered this from the other day, @Troy

[Troy 2,311]

@Delano, one-who-answers-no-questions, a black hole is perhaps the exact opposite of a vacuum and nothing alters the speed of light. E, in the equation, is not a constant, but c is.

 

But all of this is besides the point. I stated what are obvious facts. Is not 1+ 1 equal to 2 @Delano? Is that not a factual statement?

 

Would you at least answer THAT simple question and thereby lay your objection to my statement to rest?

[Delano 1,064]

You are correct Troy. Space is not a vacuum and gravity does not alter the speed  of light. Someone needs to tell Einstein he is wrong. 

[Delano 1,064]

1 hour ago, Troy said:

nothing alters the speed of light. E, in the equation, is not a constant, but c is.

Where did i say E us a constant? 

Or how do you verify facts of there isn't an objective reality? 

[Troy 2,311]

Mr. One-who-answers-no-questions, you are the master of diversionary tactics aren't you? You can't find anything to support your alien invasion claim, but you can cherry pick text from an obsure text rather than answer a simple question. You could also include the entire text, the part that describes the relativistic nature of the speed of light.

 

Better yet, just tell me if one plus one plus is two is a fact or not. Because pretending like you understand Einstein's theory put you in a small club of theoretical physicists. Plus it does not distract me from the fact that you have no response to my contention that there are indeed facts.

 

So, is 1+1=2 a fact or not @Delano?

[Delano 1,064]

Troy I already said you were right and Einstein was wrong. 

6 hours ago, Troy said:

You can't find anything to support your alien invasion claim,

Can you  quote where i said there was an alien invasion? 

I am going to take a break from wild accusations. 

[Troy 2,311]

50 minutes ago, Delano said:

Troy I already said you were right

 

My bad. I thought you were being sacastic. 

 

My percieved sacrasm was reflected back to you when i wrote "alien invasion." I was referring the "Alien Spacecraft" post where you refused to link to a source. 

 

[Delano 1,064]

I am going to  take a break from this monologue. 

I am going to  take a break from this monologue. 

[Cynique 2,307]

For years, during online discussions, i have been attributing the conclusions i reach to my having taken an over view of things and looked at the big picture. Reaction to this has indicated a total disregard for my panoramic perspective. Now, a serendipitous epiphany has erupted in our midst, giving  pause, inspiring a fatalistic view of life, one requiring a resignation to the profound idea that everything happens for inexplicable reasons beyond our comprehension, a declaration of dependence replete with the idea that we are all just pawns in a game which rules out free will. 

 

Watching now from my bird's eye view of the big picture, a question comes to mind leaving me to wonder, since everything happens for a reason, why do gluttons for punishment insist on descending into a constant state of fear of and loathing for the demonic social media and all of its by-products, and the enduring racism that thwarts justice, the looming threat of disastrous climate change, and the apocalyptic overtones of political upheaval? A better way of coping with the inevitable is to just chill and take life as it comes. Especially since things might turn out for the best! Since shit happens for reasons too convoluted for mere mortals to wrap their brains around, why sweat it? Leave the hassle to people like me, who believe we are in control to the extent that the choices we make are solely what determine our destiny.   Adopting this approach makes things more interesting and at least  allows us to enjoy our guilty pleasures along the way.

[Mel Hopkins 1,317]

28 minutes ago, Cynique said:

better way of coping with the inevitable is to just chill and take life as it comes

 

@Cynique You've spoken like a true hustler !!!  one of the many reasons I admire you!!!


 

“Always remember whether you be sucker or hustler in the world out there, you’ve got that vital edge if you can iron- clad your feelings. I picture the human mind as a movie screen. If you’re a dopey sucker, you’ll just sit and watch all kinds of mindwrecking, damn fool movies on that screen.

After all, we are the absolute bosses of that whole theatre and show in our minds. We even write the script. So always write positive, dynamic scripts and show only the best movies for you on that screen whether you are pimp or priest.” - Iceberg Slim 

 

On 2/10/2019 at 3:00 PM, Troy said:

Does everything really happen for a reason? 

 

Yes, I believe it,  @Troy .  "Law of causation" <--- not really a law but I believe nothing ever happens without a cause - even if I haven't seen the cause.  

[Delano 1,064]

I Love your mind Cynique. 

I have no plan, and it's working for me. 

[Troy 2,311]

10 hours ago, Cynique said:

Since shit happens for reasons too convoluted for mere mortals to wrap their brains around, why sweat it? 

 

I believe the vast majority of Americans share this world view.

 

@Mel Hopkins i actually do believe that everthing happens for a reason.  Cause and effect; from the moment of the big bang 13 odd billion years ago, the die was cast, and everything that would happen was set in motion. 

[Delano 1,064]

Quite a few things happened that I didn't plan. but worked out well. 

I recall vividly seeing two accidents right before they happened. due to carelessness. It's like your watching a movie and you are powerless to change the outcome. 

Fact is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense. 

[Cynique 2,307]

What i tend to be comfortable with is that the consequences of our decisions are already in place, but we do have a free choice as to which decision we make.  e.g.  A plane crash is meant to happen.  If i choose at the last minute to not take the doomed plane, i will not be killed.  However, if i choose to board the plane because i really want to get someplace fast, i will be killed. I am free to make a choice as to which predetermined outcome befalls me.  This is in line with there being multi verses waiting for us to shift into, depending on which decision we make.  i may no longer exist in another universe because i will have died due to a choice i made.  So, i will accept that events are meant to happen, but i cling to the idea that different possibilities exist for our futures.   

[Delano 1,064]

Cynique you sound like both a mystic and a quantum mechanic 

[Mel Hopkins 1,317]

On 2/10/2019 at 3:00 PM, Troy said:

 

Does anyone believe this?  Does everything really happen for a reason?  Why?

 

@Troy  I also have to add -on occasion  "that Ish happens"... no rhyme, no reason -it just does. 

[Troy 2,311]

I think everything happen for no reason. All the reasons we come up with are just stories we tell ourselves. 

 

Different people will have a different story for the same event. The reasons we conjure are as unique as the individual. If they are religious then it is all in God's plan.

 

 

 

[Mel Hopkins 1,317]

7 hours ago, Troy said:

 

I think everything happen for no reason.

 

This is provocative statement! 

 

Please explain/describe how  everything can happen for no reason...

 

 

Edited February 23 by Mel Hopkins
added describe

[Delano 1,064]

@Troyyou have overtaken my position about there not being any facts nor objective reality. Well done. 

8 hours ago, Troy said:

think everything happen for no reason. All the reasons we come up with are just stories we tell ourselves

I would have expected more stories, this is not a very robust simulation 

[Troy 2,311]

5 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Please explain/describe how  everything can happen for no reason...

 

It requires no additional explaination: nothing happens for a "reason." 

 

Perhaps you can give an example of something that happens for some reason, and I'll show you a story an elaborate or creative one but a contrivance nonetheless.

 

3 hours ago, Delano said:

you have overtaken my position about there not being any facts nor objective reality. Well done. 

 

Thank you. It was a deliberately provacative statement that no one has poked any holes in 😉

[Delano 1,064]

Provocative. Troy it's all hole. I was waiting to hear your explanation. 

[Mel Hopkins 1,317]

2 hours ago, Troy said:

nothing happens for a "reason." 

 

@Troy  I concur. “Nothing happens for a reason”  However, I asked you to describe / explain your statement:

 

“Everything happens for no reason.”