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Troy

CUNY’s Adjunct Faculty Makes Poverty Wages

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I’m a member of the City University of New York's (CUNY) adjunct faculty and I make poverty wages 😞 

 

I was surprised to discover when I started teaching that most of the classes my students take are taught by "adjuncts" (part time professors who teach a class or two and are typically only on campus during those times).  When I was in undergraduate school all of my professors were full-time professors with PhDs in the disciplines they taught.

 

This is not to say that an adjunct can't teach well -- I'm sure most do especially those with real-world experience or who are retried full-time faculty, but campus life does suffer for the students, because adjuncts have no monetary incentive to spend time on campus engaging with students and building a deeper relationship with the school. 

 

Despite this Baruch college (part of CUNY) where I teach is ranked well nationally.  The problem is that it would not take much money to much better school.

 

Why does this matter to anyone outside of CUNY?  Well this is the problem with the nation's schools as a whole -- from primary to college -- a lack of funding. The minority of wealthy people here have access the best schools on Earth, most of us don't and the nation is much worse off as a result. We have the money; we just spend it on dumb shit.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

We have the money; we just spend it on dumb shit.


This was an intriguing observation. Sadly, that last line took the focus off the real problem - school funding.  Sadly conservatives spew this same faulty logic.  It's not helpful nor is it accurate.  Black people don't have the money. Most of us live above the poverty line but our money is spent just to exist.  You do know there's been quite a lot of studies done already and the results indicate our biggest expense is housing, food and transportation.    The expenses of alcohol, tobacco and luxury items are practically nonexistent. 


In this article, the quote mentions that classes have increased in size.  We know schools are underfunded so In this case, it looks like that dumb-ish is called tuition.  Further don't forget the black tax and poor tax that we battle - Housing; or loans that we have to take out for school; or credit card purchase interest rate because we, like you just mentioned, (practically most) earn money at the poverty scale.  Unfortunately credit cards help ends meet for those who are underpaid.

Let's not put the blame on black people - there's a war on anyone who is not wealthy. - it's been going on since the 80s.   Those who handle the purse strings believe funding should go to those who already have funding - not those who don't.  That's what has to change!  By the way, I did know about how poorly the CUNY teaches are paid - but what's worst is one professor said that some in administration who don't have degrees get paid way more.  

 

Something is not right.

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To be clear this has nothing to do with race; indeed, few of my students are Black (that is another problem). 

 

When I write "we" I meant municipalities and governments.  The minimum payment for adjuncts is something like $72 per hour and we are only paid for teaching time.  If you teach two classes you get paid an extra hour for prep -- which is really a joke, because as any teacher knows prep time often exceeds classroom time.  Office hours are also required and the time is not compensated either.

 

I teach a technology course and am pretty efficient so my prep time is not as high as say a course where written work is required. 

 

Obviously the relationship works for me -- otherwise I would not be doing it.  I learn each and every semester I teach and my students give me an insight into a demo I no longer have a access to regularly.

 

I'm just agreeing with the video that in that the school needs more funding.  From my position as an adjunct this is abundantly clear. 

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As an educator you're probably going to find this statement not only ridiculous but even outrageous but......

I think this society puts TOO MUCH value on...I won't say "education"....but on formal academics for the population as a whole.

Coming from the Industrial Midwest and still remembering as a child how people with just a highschool education in Michigan had a much higher standard of living than most of the highly educated of Boston or New York....I recognize that it's JOBS and BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES that weigh the most in improving a person's financial life and well being, not simply forcing them to get more degrees.

Let's not put the cart before the horse; the GOAL for most people should be to make a good living with high wages and benefits in order to support you and your family....not simply go to school for decades and cram as much useless knowledge in your head as you possibly can.
This is accomplished through good paying jobs and easily established small businesses, not earning degrees.

If your goal in life is to be a docor, laywer, or aerospace engineer......ABSOLUTELY take your butt to school and get as much education as you can cram into your brain and CONTINUE to further your education as long as you practice your career.

But if your goal is to have a nice home and large family with plenty of food, entertainment, and great healthcare.....academic education alone won't get you there.
There are hundreds of thousands of people with degrees who are working as professors and research assistants PART TIME and must suppliment their income with jobs as Starbucks and Target just to survive and still can't afford to live on their own.

Unlike the past where manufacturing and agriculture were the standard industries that allowed each man to make a good living for himself and his family without excessive education, tuition, and student loan debt.......today's economy is being taylored to produce a very educated class of slaves who will work their ass off for nothing.

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CUNY is actually relatively affordable today.  It used to be free, but today people can easily attend by working their way through.  People like Colin Powell was educated at CUNY for free.

 

Again the school could be made better with more funding and the money does not have to come from raising tuition.

 

@Pioneer1 Baruch is best known for the accountancy program. It is profession in the same class of jobs that you approve of like Doctor, Lawyer, and Engineer. The students here learn a variety of skills that are required for a functioning society.  I teach a web design course I trust you can appreciate the practical application of this and related skill. 

 

I think what you have against formal education are the students who send a ton of money and take out large loans for a degree with minimal practical utility.  Don't paint all formal education and schools with the same brush.

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Unlike the past where manufacturing and agriculture were the standard industries that allowed each man to make a good living for himself and his family without excessive education, tuition, and student loan debt

 

Man forget those days -- unless there is a disaster they are never coming back. Technology has eliminated the need for so many people to labor on farms and factories.  Besides you seem to be glorifying the back breaking life shortening labor required.  I'd take on a student loan to avoid that drudgery any day of the week. 

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

There are hundreds of thousands of people with degrees who are working as professors and research assistants PART TIME and must suppliment their income with jobs as Starbucks and Target just to survive and still can't afford to live on their own.

 

Hundreds of Thousands?! Stop making stuff up. Anecdotally, I've attended three universities for a total of 8 years.  I've sent kids to two different universities for 8 years and have worked in one for 5.  I have never met a single professor in all of these years who could not live on their own and while supplementing their income working a minimum wage job.  Did you just make these stats up?  That is a question @Pioneer1 I'd really like to know where you got this from.

 

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Troy


While I do think being an accoutant is a great profession, I don't think going to an actual university for years should be a prerequisit to be one like one should to be a doctor, lawyer, or engineer.
They teach calculus in highschool and much of the skills needed to be an accountant that AREN'T learned in highschool can certainly be learned on the job.
I believe Delano said he was an accountant so I'm sure he can correct me if I'm wrong but exactly what MUST a person actually go to a university learn about accounting that can't be learned in a couple years on the job?

 

 

 

 

I think what you have against formal education are the students who send a ton of money and take out large loans for a degree with minimal practical utility.


Well that, but I also don't like the "cultural indoctrination" that I see going on in many of the universities that I've visited. In many of the universities today AfroAmerican culture is marginalized and in many if not most cases non-existent. Feminism and homosexuality is not just allowed but actively promoted. And young men are being conditioned to believe that basic masculine traits like aggressiveness and chasing after females is somehow a defect that must be corrected.
 

 

 

 

Man forget those days -- unless there is a disaster they are never coming back. Technology has eliminated the need for so many people to labor on farms and factories. Besides you seem to be glorifying the back breaking life shortening labor required. I'd take on a student loan to avoid that drudgery any day of the week.


Not only will they come back, they are ALREADY back....just not in the United States, but in China and India and other nations where these mentally simple but well paying jobs are now building a huge middle class in those nations like they used to in ours.

Even if you want to believe that technology has all but eliminated the need for human labor in manufacturing, what about skilled trades like carpentry and plumbing?
You're going to always need plumbers, carpenters, and just basic repair men; yet these jobs aren't being promoted despite the fact that they actually pay more than most entry level professional careers.
Plumbers and electricians make anywhere from $60,000 to $75,000 a year and don't have all of the debt (from student loans atleast) to show for it.

 

 

 

 

Hundreds of Thousands?! Stop making stuff up. Anecdotally, I've attended three universities for a total of 8 years. I've sent kids to two different universities for 8 years and have worked in one for 5. I have never met a single professor in all of these years who could not live on their own and while supplementing their income working a minimum wage job. Did you just make these stats up? That is a question @Pioneer1 I'd really like to know where you got this from.


Well, since you're going to call me on it.....actually I WAS being a bit hyperbolic....lol.
But didn't YOU  allude to this idea by the very THEME of this thread being that assistant professors who aren't making enough money to raise themselves out of poverty?

Can't say that I know a lot of professors who must suppliment their income but I DO know plenty of graduates with professional degrees who do!

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...and there are plumbers, electricans, and web based booksellers who need to supplement their incomes too -- especially those who live in the nation's largest cities.

 

@Pioneer1 education is not simply about learning the skills for a profession or trade. It is about becoming a well arounded individual with a base of knowledge and experiences to help navigate an increasingly challeging world.

 

Liberal arts which you and so many short sighted people eschew and disparage is why our nation is full of zenophobic, culturally illiterate, social media manipulated, Trump voting, dullards.

 

Even the compulsive drive toward STEM is why people are less likely to sit down for an hour or two and read a book to expand their minds and get a perspective different than the one in their head.

 

Oh by the way MOST students never learn calculus -- even in college and you don't need it to be and an accountant. 

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Troy

You're helping me to make my point about many of the professions that currently require you to go to a university before even considering you.
If you don't even need calculus or other subjectst that can be learned in highschool to be an Accountant, then why do you NEED to go to college for 5 or 7 years?

If you want to be a CPA, or even a  Film Director, Social Worker, or Dietician....what's wrong with a paid "apprenticeship" for a couple years for those professions to gain the knowledge and circumvent the debt?

 

 


As far as liberal arts goes....now THAT'S where the cultural indoctrination starts.

You say it's to make you a more well rounded person but actually it's to teach you how to "fit in" upperclass White society.
And this is at the heart of the problem, because it creates confusion and division.
This was the idealogy of old Europe going back to the feudalist era where people weren't allowed to express THEMSELVES , but were conditioned to conform to a " social ideal" standard where everyone who was considered cultivated and "civilized" had to think, talk, and behave similarly....less they be considered vulgar and uncouth and not taken seriously.

.....and you have the same madness being taught in many of the public universities today.
Teaching you how to conform and go along with the program, accepting orders from the top without questioning it.....like accepting "official science" and "official history" and rejecting those that the mainstream academia rejects also.

Besides stifling true human spirit and forcing everyone to conform to a limited social norm, another problem with this attempt at social uniformity is it's tendency to NEUTER the society and alter it's ability to react aggressively in the face of authoritarian rule.

Where as poor and less educated population is more likely to rise up and revolt because they have less to lose and haven't been taught to "be calm"....more educated people tend to be more involved in the system and have more faith in it, so they are less likely to revolt against it  no matter how corrupt it gets.
They often feel a sense of guilt if they challenge it....much like a person who grows up in a religious home feels a sense of guilt even as an adult by going against what they were taught as a child, even when it makes no sense.

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I agree with Troy! One reason people are poor is because they are uneducated.There's a correlation between the 2. The world doesn't adjust to the individual; the individual  has to adjust to it. Learning to cope with the vicissitudes of life is a survival tool. A liberal education should never be devalued, never be regarded as a waste of time since it stimulates and enriches the mind. And the benefit of a subject like basic algebra is that it hones the problem-solving skills that can apply to everyday living. Those who acquire the intellectual buoyancy to swim in the mainstream immerse themselves in an environment that provides a measure of enjoyment.  

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22 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

but actually it's to teach you how to "fit in" upperclass White society.

 

There virtually no Black "upper class" people so few in fact it is not even wierh talking about

 

22 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Where as poor and less educated population is more likely to rise up and revolt because they have less to lose and haven't been taught to "be calm"....more educated people tend to be more involved in the system and have more faith in it, so they are less likely to revolt against it  no matter how corrupt it gets.

 

Man Pioneer you could nit be more wrong. Educated people are the ones most likely to have the information to not just know the about corruption but to also understand the way and how. Liberal arts folk who study histort can out things in a historical contect. The uneducated masses are just angry, and because they are uninformed they fall fir hucksters like our current POTUS.

 

Are you aware of any of the college protests that have taken place? In the last 60 years? On college campuses across the country? MLK had a Phd, do you devalue his education? Do you think he would have been as effective with just a high school diploma. 

 

Even closer to home, you appreciate what i do here. It would not have happened without my education, and there is no apprenticeship in the world that could have preoared me for it.

 

 

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Cynique
 

I agree with Troy!


You disagree with my position....:o....HOW SHOCKING!!!!



 



Troy

There virtually no Black "upper class" people so few in fact it is not even wierh talking about


Now come on man.....
You could make the argument that there are almost no Black people in the VERY TOP class of United States society of the likes of the Koch brothers, Bushes, or Kennedys and I know class is about more than just money but also power and influence BUT I consider the "upper class" the ENTIRE collection of groups and sub-group above the "middle class".

That would include AfroAmerican entertainers like Lebron, Jay Z, and Oprah as well as Black politicians like Eric Holder, Barack Obama, Vernon Jordan, Donna Brazile, ect....
They may not be old money from established families, but they are definately inside the door of the "upper rooms" of this mansion...lol. 



 

 

 

Man Pioneer you could nit be more wrong. Educated people are the ones most likely to have the information to not just know the about corruption but to also understand the way and how.
 

They are also far more likely to JOIN into that corruption or atleast assist it by growing up and joining the same system that supports and maintains corruption and injustice;  which is exactly what the vast majority of educated people do.

Don't misunderstand me....I'm not saying that most educated people are corrupt.
I'm saying most of them are educated BY the corrupt system for the purposes of  working for it and supporting it; so while their intentions may be benevolent they are still supporting corruption and injustice by helping to maintain it.

If you know that your government is killing innocent men, women, and children in a particular nation and you choose to be a senator or official in that government, are you not indirectly supporting that killing through your involvement with the government?

 

 

 

 

MLK had a Phd, do you devalue his education? Do you think he would have been as effective with just a high school diploma.


I don't devalue his education, I think it's noble and I'm proud that he was able to achieve such.
But Malik Shabazz (Malcolm X) arguably did more among the grass roots and Marcus Garvey CERTAINLY did more and made more progress among the grass roots than MLK;  and except for Garvey taking a few college courses neither of these men had more than a highschool diploma.....if that.

The Right Reverend's education certainly helped him in the political arena and especially with regard to his political connections because he had to deal with people who ONLY respected those who are academically accomplished.   But among the masses that he was targeting and trying to organize.....no, his formal education didn't help him nearly as much. His inate intelligence as well as his powerful oratory and social skills were much more valuable and the same for Malik and Marcus.

Infact.......
Martin's biggest supporters not only practically  but even financially were the masses of the uneducated and working class.....while his biggest critics were the his colleagues and other highly educated AfroAmericans who felt he was ruining things for THEM by challenging a corrupt system that benefitted THEM but not the masses.

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3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

BUT I consider the "upper class" the ENTIRE collection of groups and sub-group above the "middle class".

 

I consider this class "upper middle class."  Don't confuse wealth with class.  You mentioned some very wealthy, but they are not upper class. Lebron collects a paycheck and beholden to the one who writes his check.  Even Obama is not upper class.  Now if all of his great-grandchildren are independently wealth from birth then we can discuss those people being upper class.  Obama is just a ex-president...

 

Jay-Z and Oprah provide our entertainment exclude them from your definition of upper class.

 

Marcus Garvey attended college. Malcolm was extremely well read as well as being mentally gifted.  There are always exceptions. 

 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Martin's biggest supporters not only practically  but even financially were the masses of the uneducated and working class.....

 

Dude the VAST majority of Black people were working class or poor and did not graduate from college (this is still true today), of course these were his largest (numerically) supporters.

 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

while his biggest critics were the his colleagues and other highly educated AfroAmericans who felt he was ruining things for THEM by challenging a corrupt system that benefitted THEM

 

I think you are just making up stuff here.  I guess you never heard of organizations like SNCC.  Do you know where the people who participated in the freedom rides or sat in at lunch counters came from?   How about all the attorneys who fought the Gov't to pass civil right legislation...?

 

Besides using your logic for education why does anyone have to go to high school?  Everything you need to learn to be a plumber or carpenter can be learned in grade school.

 

 

 

 

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I consider this class "upper middle class." Don't confuse wealth with class.


I know, I said this already.
Class is also about influence and social standing and I'm telling you that the AfroAmericans I named are FAR more influencial than the Black doctor, lawyer, or architect....professions traditionally considered "middle class".

Oprah and Beyonce are not only multi millionaires but are HIGHLY influencial socially and weild a lot of power in the entertainment industry.

I know our people aren't where we WANT them to be yet but come on man, don't sell your people TOO short....lol.
We DO have Black people in the upper class.

 

 

 

 

 

Marcus Garvey attended college. Malcolm was extremely well read as well as being mentally gifted. There are always exceptions.


I know Marcus went to college for a while when he was in London but I haven't read anywhere about him graduating or getting any degrees.
A lot of us went to college for a semester or two; but that's different than actually going through the entire process and getting atleast a Bachelor's.

Ofcourse both Marcus and Malcolm were EXTREMELY smart individuals as well as charismatic. I didn't say any FOOL or stupid person could have done what they did, you have to have a great deal of intelligence.
But INTELLIGENCE isn't the same as FORMAL EDUCATION.
Intelligence is innate and natural and if you have it you can learn ANYTHING ANYWHERE, not just inside of a school.
Malcolm learned more about human nature and how to motivate people as a pimp and hustler on the streets than he EVER could learn within the confines of Harvard or Yale.


It's ACADEMIC or FORMAL education received in traditonal Western institutions that I'm taking issue with because despite the benefits many of our people may receive individually...I believe it has LIMITED our people collectively, especially Black males.

Obviously I don't have a college degree but I've helped dozens of people with Bachelors and Master's degrees get out of homelessness, overcome their addictions, and solve other problems based on the knowledge that I was able to get OUTSIDE of the traditional academic institutions.

Infact.....
Much of my success with them comes from my MISTRUST of those traditional institutions to actually help our people!

 

 

 

 

 

Dude the VAST majority of Black people were working class or poor and did not graduate from college (this is still true today), of course these were his largest (numerically) supporters.


Ok....
I just said that.
So are you agreeing with me or what?

 

 

 

 

I guess you never heard of organizations like SNCC. Do you know where the people who participated in the freedom rides or sat in at lunch counters came from? How about all the attorneys who fought the Gov't to pass civil right legislation...?


Well first of all SNCC was made up of STUDENTS....so it could be argued that they were as bold as they were because the system hadn't "gotten to" them to neutralize them yet.  But besides Stokely Carmichael, who else out of SNCC was effective in the Civil Rights struggle AFTER they graduated from their academic institutions and got their papers?

And you're focusing on the legal end of it.
On a more practical and social end, it was the dozens and dozens of RIOTS that occured all over America during the 60s that forced the various police departments and other government institutions to take notice and compromise in order to maintain the integrity of the nation.

 

 

 

 

Besides using your logic for education why does anyone have to go to high school? Everything you need to learn to be a plumber or carpenter can be learned in grade school.


There are a lot of higher mathematics dealing with tangents and cosigns that you need to learn to be a carpenter and plumber so don't dismiss their intellectual skills.
But I DO think academic education beyond say 15 or 16 should be a choice (as it is in many states) and those who choose to engage in other fields of endeavor should be allowed to do so without being shamed or someone made to feel guilty or like failures simply because they don't have a diploma
The goal for most people is to make enough money to support and enjoy their lives and the lives of their families.
If you can do that WITHOUT formal education....as millions of people were able to do in times past...then outside of personal satisfaction there is no real need for excessive academics.

Clearly the "adjunct" professors at City University are lacking a PROPER education, because if they weren't they wouldn't be making poverty wages.
If they were properly "educated"  they would have the knowledge of how to increase their wages to a satisfactory level.

Real education is knowing WHATEVER you need to know to accomplish your goals.
If you need to go to an institution to get that knowledge, get it out of a book,  or  PRAY for it and have it revealed to you....as long as you get it and can use it is what really counts.

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3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Oprah and Beyonce

 

Please tell me how these ladies have influenced you?  I can tell you they do not influence me it the least bit.  Oprah perhaps has some influence, but that is because of her impact on the book word that I must react to. 

 

Again celebrity, and wealth do not equal class.  You  wouldn't know anyone in the upper class -- they are media whores like the kardasians they have dare I say it, too much class for that.

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Well first of all SNCC was made up of STUDENTS

 

Yes student who were being formally educated  understood the benefits of  of a formal education AND wing to down and dirty in the struggle.  As usual when I give you example to counter your narrative you change the criteria (so now they have to have actually graduated so SNCC Students and Garvey don't count...

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

There are a lot of higher mathematics dealing with tangents and cosigns that you need to learn to be a carpenter and plumber so don't dismiss their intellectual skills.

 

Please this is not "higher mathematics." The is no math that a carpenter needs that a 8th grader count not master.

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

...and those who choose to engage in other fields of endeavor should be allowed to do so without being shamed or someone made to feel guilty or like failures simply because they don't have a diploma.

 

Of course man -- who suggested this?!  

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Clearly the "adjunct" professors at City University are lacking a PROPER education

 

Most of the adjuncts I know have Phds.  I work there to supplement my income running AALBC -- the unexpected and added benefit is that it made me a better developer and is one reason AALBC still exists.  Again another illustration why formal education is important

 

The real issue in not solely what they pay adjuncts the problem is the financial resources allocated to the City's university system. Would you believe we received a memo saying that we run out of paper -- paper for Christ's sake!

 

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Troy

Again, you're making my point.
People who have PhD's but for whatever reason are condemned to earn a poverty wage are NOT properly educated despite all of the formal "book learning" they managed to accumulate....lol.  Because obviously whatever they learned didn't teach them how to make a decent living for themselves;  which should have been the entire point of them getting an education in the first place.

It's the same with a so-called world class institution that runs out of basic stationary.
Like most accreditted universities I'm sure CUNY rakes in millions of dollars a year. If they aren't providing enough office supplies for their staff it's because they don't want to or don't care....not because they can't.  And the point I'm making is this.....along with the poverty wages for part-time professors with Phd's...says more about THE STAFF and how silly they are to allow themselves to be played like fools and suckers while a handful of people at the top somewhere are hoarding much of the wealth and funds that come in.

And I think you're raising the standards too high on your definition of the "upper class".
You're talking about the upper echelon OF the upper class, but this isn't the entirety of the class itself.

 

 


Take a listen to an excerpt of a lecture by the famous AfroAmerican psychologist Dr. Amos Wilson on the dangers of Western education.
 

 


This is a man who's achieved among the highest of degrees in Western academia and even HE has a healthy mistrust of Western education!

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2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Again, you're making my point.
People who have PhD's but for whatever reason are condemned to earn a poverty wage are NOT properly educated despite all of the formal "book learning" they managed to accumulate....lol.

 

No I completely reject your point.  On a fundamental level I reject the notion that the accumulation of wealth is the only reason one gets an education -- indeed if that is one's primary reason to get an education they are missing the point of an education.  An uneducated amoral person can get wealthy. 

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

And the point I'm making is this.....along with the poverty wages for part-time professors with Phd's...says more about THE STAFF and how silly they are to allow themselves to be played like fools and suckers while a handful of people at the top somewhere are hoarding much of the wealth and funds that come in.

 

This statement reveals an lack of basic understanding of the differences between public and private institutions. 

 

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

And I think you're raising the standards too high on your definition of the "upper class".

 

Perhaps, but I think you are lowering them.  I suspect most American's, who live from pay check to pay check fancy themselves as being in the middle class where in reality they are poor and lower class.

 

I think you are looking at class distinctions the wrong way.  You seem, based upon your statements, to be dividing the nation up by 1/3rds based upon wealth. so the folks in the highest 1/3 are upper class.  The reality is that most American are in the lower class (no savings and minimal or negative net worth). The middle class has been shrinking for decades and the upper class is indeed a very small percentage of people who exert tremendous power and own almost everything.

 

The upperclass are not the people you, or most American would know personally or encounter, unless you serve them directly as a maid or entertainer -- they live completely separate lives -- different schools, neighborhoods, etc

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On 3/29/2019 at 9:31 AM, Pioneer1 said:

.....and you have the same madness being taught in many of the public universities today.
Teaching you how to conform and go along with the program, accepting orders from the top without questioning it.....like accepting "official science" and "official history" and rejecting those that the mainstream academia rejects also.

 

But isn't this the case also, in mostly all schools, whether public or private, or lower schools too? Isn't this part of what the government controls from the top, to a point? 

On 3/31/2019 at 8:09 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Don't misunderstand me....I'm not saying that most educated people are corrupt.
I'm saying most of them are educated BY the corrupt system for the purposes of  working for it and supporting it; so while their intentions may be benevolent they are still supporting corruption and injustice by helping to maintain it.

If you know that your government is killing innocent men, women, and children in a particular nation and you choose to be a senator or official in that government, are you not indirectly supporting that killing through your involvement with the government?

 

WOW, @Pioneer1 The poor and uneducated people fit into this category too. They too are educated by the corrupt system for the purposes of working forit and supporting it. Therefore, I believe that 'formal education' is the key. By being able to be a part of a disciplined system of education, it offers opportunities to better challenge the corruption, that I agree exists.

 

On 4/1/2019 at 12:28 PM, Pioneer1 said:

It's ACADEMIC or FORMAL education received in traditonal Western institutions that I'm taking issue with because despite the benefits many of our people may receive individually...I believe it has LIMITED our people collectively, especially Black males.

 

Yes, I agree, but NOT being a part of a higher educational system will NOT help to solve the problem though

22 hours ago, Troy said:

Most of the adjuncts I know have Phds.  I work there to supplement my income running AALBC -- the unexpected and added benefit is that it made me a better developer and is one reason AALBC still exists.  Again another illustration why formal education is important

 

That is amazing!

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

People who have PhD's but for whatever reason are condemned to earn a poverty wage are NOT properly educated despite all of the formal "book learning" they managed to accumulate....lol. 

 

That is SO NOT TRUE. These kinds of problems are not because someone has not been properly educated in the area of content for which they studied, but has to do with the higher government in how money is allocated out for various programs, various institutions and etc. 

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I believe that a strong government and civilization has to have both people that are able to obtain high forms of disciplines through formal education and skill people. And also, America has to also consider other governments in the world when it comes to their educational systems and other systems as well in order to stay in a certain status. So, then a lot of the higher institutions may be more of a bully in getting better funded and then down the pipeline, the other school officials have to fight to stay in a certain status. Now, if I had a better education on this subject, I would be able to make a better statement, but this is the best way that I can relate to this subject of which interest me.  

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Chev

That is SO NOT TRUE. These kinds of problems are not because someone has not been properly educated in the area of content for which they studied, but has to do with the higher government in how money is allocated out for various programs, various institutions and etc



If these people were PROPERLY educated they wouldn't have these problems to begin with regardless of their area of study.
But they WEREN'T educated...they were merely TRAINED.


There's a difference between EDUCATION and TRAINING.
Education is teaching a person how to think for themselves while mere training is teaching them how to do a specific task.

White institutions don't "educate" Black people, they merely TRAIN them to do a specific job.
Usually to work for them.

In this society, most Black people have to EDUCATE THEMSELVES as best they can  through their experiences and observations.
This is especially true on most jobs!

 

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On 4/6/2019 at 1:16 PM, Pioneer1 said:

If these people were PROPERLY educated they wouldn't have these problems to begin with regardless of their area of study.
But they WEREN'T educated...they were merely TRAINED.

 

 

But @Pioneer1 I may have forgotten the actual topic and may need to re-read the early comments, but if a person has obtained a certain degree and education or TRAINING, however, they cannot force the college or government to pay them the wages they feel they deserve? right?

 

Or, am I off topic?

 

no matter what, if a college and government recognizes the 'diploma' or 'certificate' and hires a person, then the wages are based on this, therefore, the conflice becomes not being paid at a certain rate that a person feels they should be paid based on a certain code of standard that is not being acknowledged, I suppose. A professor at a technical college or a Junior college may have to deal with other people employed in that subject area that teach at other institutions and may get  a higher pay, but it is not necessarily based on having an improper education or even training. Maybe it could be a conflict between private or public institutions in how salaries are determined or other methods of setting a salary.

 

On 4/6/2019 at 1:16 PM, Pioneer1 said:

In this society, most Black people have to EDUCATE THEMSELVES as best they can  through their experiences and observations.
This is especially true on most jobs!

 

I agree! But then too, when standards are set, such as 'testing' and 'measuring tools' then, it helps to get a certain salary or pay range. 

For example, public schools and etc. are required to have standard examinations, statewide and nationally wide, and when a person can obtain a certain score range on these test, it becomes a tool used to hopefully get a job with an expected salary range. So, even if we, as Black Americans have to 'educate ourselves' these standards test can help too. 

 

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Chev


But @Pioneer1 I may have forgotten the actual topic and may need to re-read the early comments, but if a person has obtained a certain degree and education or TRAINING, however, they cannot force the college or government to pay them the wages they feel they deserve? right?

 


They could if they were PROPERLY EDUCATED on unionization, organization, and how to demand more benefits for themselves.....which is how most people have traditionally gotten wage increases from their places of employment.

Again, this is the difference between EDUCATION and mere TRAINING.

All of these degrees and certificates and shit mean nothing if you can barely eat or pay your bills.

Many of these professors were TRAINED in a very narrow specific field to do a particular job...which is teach students for the university.
That's what they were hired to do, and that's what they're doing.

But if they were PROPERLY EDUCATED then they would know enough about society, history, and life itself to realize that CUofNY will not just arbitrarily increase their wages and be nice to them, but they'll have to demand a wage increase and perhaps even take punitive action if necessary.

Again, TRULY educated people KNOW HOW to get what they want and need.

If they aren't smart enough to figure out how to demand hire wages and more benefits, they aren't smart enough....and aren't educated regardless as to how many letters they have before or after their names.

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@Pioneer1 you've missed the point. Don't you see that the video I shared is part of a strategy to get a wage increase?  You are speaking as if the professors are complete morons without agency. In the short time I've been teaching my wages have increased twice once retroactively resulting in a 4 figure check. Not a ton of money, but what i make working part time, from home, is the more than what some wage earners make working full time.

 

The adjuncts are unionized. 

 

I posted the video because the claim we make poverty wages is hyperbolic and I thought it might be interesting to share my story of poverty 🙂 Look, no one will get rich being adjunct, but poverty is a bit extreme. Again, it is a part time job and if it is your only source of income, living in NYC, then yeah, you are in for a world of hurt.... 

 

Of course I also feel more resources should be directed to education.

 

 

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Troy

I'm not sure what YOUR point is, but MY points remains the same that whether you are a professor with a Doctorate or a floor mopper who doesn't even have a GED.......if you aren't making enough money to live independently and support yourself YOU ARE NOT EDUCATED.

 


And again, the first priority a person should have is the ability to sustain themselves and their family and obviously since you and others are complaining about the wages at CU of NY being inadequate....whether or not they are in actual, relative, or hyperbolic poverty is irrelevant.
The fact is they aren't earning the wages they'd like to earn or even NEED to earn to make a decent living.

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5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm not sure what YOUR point is, but MY points remains the same that whether you are a professor with a Doctorate or a floor mopper who doesn't even have a GED.......if you aren't making enough money to live independently and support yourself YOU ARE NOT EDUCATED.

Not being able to make enough money to independently support yourself involves so many extenuating circumstances that its ridiculous to make the above statement.  During The Depression people from all walks of life including highly qualified and educated ones were not able to make enough money to live independently.  How can you not take the economy and the stability of the government or even the health of a well educated person into consideration when making such  assertions? 

 

You want to dumb down life. What your argument amounts to is that educated people who use their information to think creatively are to blame for uneducated people who are too ignorant to think in the abstract. You refuse to consider that education is one of the things that separates the winner peer groups  from the loser peer groups in the arena of success.  

 

 

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On 3/27/2019 at 12:31 PM, Troy said:

Man forget those days -- unless there is a disaster they are never coming back. Technology has eliminated the need for so many people to labor on farms and factories.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/urban-decay-to-be-replaced-with-farmland-in-detroit

https://www.michiganradio.org/post/detroit-s-urban-farms-engines-growth-omens-change

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