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I found this exchange of views about hip-hop interesting inspite of the fact that, as a member of another generation, to me hip-hop is "much ado about nothing". Whenever I ask a hip-hop fan what constitutes hip-hop or to explain why they consider this culture so special, they are always at a loss for words. Or, like CDBurns and a few others, they, themselves, go into their own rap defending hip-hop rather than defining it. The few artists who I have developed an ear for are contemptuously dismissed by those who considered themselves hip-hop purists. So there are apparently pseudo hip-hoppers and the real ones, an arbitrary distinction that lies in the eye of the beholder. As I said, "much ado about nothing". Hip-hop does seem akin to a religion that possesses its faithful disciples. As a Zen devotee, the impact of pauses between words, and spaces between the lines resonate with me; the room left for the imagination. Guess that's why the "in-your-face" and "leave-nothing-unsaid" aggression of Rap, and the self-described "uniqueness" of the hip-hop population leave me yawning.

I think what is being discussed here is whether Hip-Hop has added value to the musical cannon of Black art. My answer is yes. What you seem to be saying is Hip-Hop hasn't improved or generated jobs or a livelihood for those that created it. Which is a completely different discussion that moves us towards analyzing the corporatization of Black art and the co-opting and stealing of culture. No Black musical artform has sustained where it was created. Detroit is a broken city. Motown didn't save it. Memphis is a broken city and Stax is finally being redeveloped by White Memphis; before it didn't save South Memphis. Harlem is gentrified and wasn't saved by Hip-Hop. Kansas City, New York and Oakland weren't saved by Jazz, but white people support the music at a higher rate than Blacks, just as in Hip Hop, right? So my view isn't romanticized at all, it's based on the positive aspects that Hip-Hop has generated in a very short time. Some of Black musics best artists in the last 30 years evolved from Hip-Hop: Erykah Badu, D'Angelo, Musiq, Anthony Hamilton, Jill Scott and this list of impressive and very gifted performers has grown and continues to grow with groups like Foreign Exchange and Zo! I've already given examples of how Hip-Hop influenced and shaped Broadway plays and what you call blight and what many others called or thought of as blight has developed into Banksy and a new artform labeled street art and is given credibility by museums in LA and NYC. Hell even Jay Z has performed at the Moma. Has Jazz done that and sustained? Not really... I would even say that Jazz has been resurrected by Hip-Hop. I love Jazz and have an extensive collection, but to be honest, my mother didn't bring me to Jazz. Hip-Hop did. Had Miles Davis not made Doo Bop, I may not have ever head of Miles Davis! (If Miles found Hip-Hop valid enough to experiment, excuse me if I state that Nicholas Payton can beat it talking about something he obviously doesn't understand outside of the musical or lack of music he thinks Hip-Hop has. I also think Brandford Marsalis would have something to say also since he created Buckshot LeFonque and also along with Terrence Blanchard used it on Spike lee's Mo better Blues soundtrack with Guru). Mystic brew the sample for Electric Relaxation by Tribe Called Quest brought a new generation to Jazz (well this happened with other Hip-Hop cuts but you get the idea). It also led to Jose James being signed by Blue Note and Blue Note releasing albums with serious Hip-Hop influence (just to bring up a new artist again). Has gospel done that? Not really. Rock has, but not to the same extent. Hip Hop has built up other musical artforms, not torn them down. So is this romanticized? No it's real. I can't stress enough that I want Hip-Hop to be greater and create economy and jobs. I wish there was a retirement plan for the emcees and djs, but like old blues and soul artists, it seems that all of Black music tends to die penniless and unloved if we focus on the negative and that is what it seems that you and the others here want to do. Soul Food is a great track on Cadillactica. In regard to not wanting to download the track from Ras, in another board you say the new generation is dumbed down. So instead of touting the fact that Ras Kass is introducing young people to new information and getting them to look up and use the internet for more than just Facebook, you say "I listened once and moved on," that's you. You are a well read person who uses Cress Welding just as casually as a verb! Everyone isn't like us and I find it inspiring that the emcees are still working hard. I also love that the culture of Hip-Hop is reaching across cultures and bringing dance and art to different people. I guess we are coming to an end on this post, and I have to say that I love the engagement. I may pull these posts and create a new series of blogs on my own site. I do hate mainstream rap and how it dictates the dialogue though. In regard to who I would like to see live? The last concert I went to was Sade and before that the legends of Hip-Hop. I did blog posts on both. I love music and while I would obviously want to see Stevie Wonder, why would I even compare an emcee to a man who has a catalog of work like that? I'm surprised you'd even ask that question... Concerts are great, but I'm in my car more than I am anywhere except my home and I listen to all types of music. If you were to make the statement "Jazz (country, rock, pop) as a whole is wack" we would be into another long back and forth. Which is okay with me.

The only thing you have on me in regard to Hip-Hop is that you were birth in the area and had direct access to it. That is something I simply can't replicate so by default, your experience is more vital, but not any more authentic or better than mines. You stated that you didn't like it in the original post and that you preferred Gregory Porter and other artists. I took that as your decision to not support the art form. Hence my analysis. I never said that Hip-Hop doesn't have any negatives, quite to the contrary I stated that it had failed to create a connection to the past that sustains and builds. I say that because as we both know, Hip Hop is just reaching it's maturity. My birth in Hip-hop derived from listening to the Cold Crush Crew and Punk rock rap. Now this is in the south, in Memphis where Soul music dominated. The Bar Kays practiced in the gym that we used to play ball in. I went to church down the street from Stax and lived on a corner where American music was and where guys like Chips Moman established the Memphis sound. Now with that as my foundation, it was Hip Hop and Kool herc that caught my attention and changed my life. Just as you used a quote from George Clinton, I gave you an example of the man performing with the same people who sampled his music. He was paid for that. I also gave you Jonah Ellis as an example of how many of those artists were paid. Now when sampling started(became prominent) of course there were multiple problems with clearance and a lot of people weren't paid, but neither were the emcees. But this is a problem that exists in more formats than just Hip-Hop. I respect that you were raised around the culture, but to state that it isn't positive is to choose the negative aspects and focus on that instead of looking towards the moments where the artform builds and unifies. Is the mainstream saturated with garbage? Of course it is, but if you are a purist then you can say the same thing for film, books and any artform. The problem is Hip-Hop is being tossed around as a label for a variety of things that shouldn't be labeled as such. We both agree on this. As far as old artists and emcees I'm more versed in the older artists but I'm equally as informed about the newer ones which is why I can say emphatically that the culture is still there beneath the surface and a lot of amazing work is being done. You aren't interested in the newer stuff which is why I continue to say that I can't really discuss this with you because if I say Ras Kass' "How To Kill God" and Big KRIT's "Cadillactica" are modern classics, you'll say "huh?" or you will look it up and say damn those are interesting which is really the point of this dialogue. I don't ignore the negatives, but when I see such a generalized topic (which i know is the foundation of discussion) "Hip Hop as a whole is wack" I have to respond. You knew this would happen and that's the sign of a good teacher. Trust me though DJ Red Alert, Marley Marl, Grandmaster Caz(s), Flash, all of the OGs, I'm well versed in and can speak about Sedgewick Ave and Cedar just as quick as I can speak about DJ Quik and his underground tapes, or Ball and MJG out of Memphis, and Scarface out of Texas as well as 2Live Crew out of Miami and Common and No ID from Chicago. I love the culture and study it so that I can speak about the positives because if I don't share and discuss the good, all there is the negative commentary that is out there. Is Young Thug wack, yep. Is 2 Chainz wack? Yep. Are the majority of the mainstream artists wack? Yep. But I love the idea that Savion Glover is Hip-Hop. I love the fact that In The Heights has elements of Hip-Hop. I love the fact that Bobbito Garcia and Stretch are hip hop and carry the culture all over the globe and it's positive. What I am always reaching for is an understanding that those elements of the culture are still here and being upheld by guys reaching back and putting Rakim and Big Daddy Kane or Slick Rick on tracks with Mos Def like in Auditorium. Hip is not wack and the fact that you fired back with such life altering experiences shows me you have a passion for the culture so I can understand your frustration with it. We probably both want it to be a lot more than it is, but we also want people to read more and care more. It's a tough thing to face.