Cynique

@Pioneer1 My focus is on why black Americans live longer and are healthier now than they were 77 years ago and vaccines and better medicine are 2 of the reasons why they are no longer dying from all of those diseases I named. You continue to sidestep that claim you made citing old southern black folks as your proof that blacks were healthier and lived longer back then. If you hadn't brought Africans and Europeans into the conversation, I wouldn't have responded to your remarks about them. Now we can move on. And also, all black youth aren't out there robbing and shooting and being aggressive because that's their nature. There are just as many who possess self control and pursue the good life by legally doing what it takes to acquire money and status. And it's arguable as to whether modern society looks down on men who are players and tough and financially astute.

Actually I kind of feel the same way. The idea that blacks have an equal stake in America because they helped build it and have fought and died for it don't mean jack!. The only way African Americans are going to have all of their demands met is to remove themselves from a white-dominated environment. In a black monolithic domain there would be less of what's happening in places like Chicago in terms of murder and violence, because black apologists wouldn't have racism to blame law enforcement and every other imaginable thing on. Now, it's almost as if there is an epidemic of young black men committing suicide-by-cop, so they can go out in a blaze of glory and be the opening story on the evening news and the next martyr to gain fame and inspire protest. What gratified me about this debate was confronting the white bastard with how the Indians are who this country belongs to and white intruders are who stole it from them, and that Native Americans are the ones who should be telling white people to get the hell out. The only rebuttal to this is for whites to ignore the truth, which is what that Fox commentator did. People like this are why Donald Trump has a very good chance of winning this election because Liberals have overestimated the civility, tolerance and honesty of millions of Americans who have no problem with a con man who has figured out a way not to pay his taxes, a bigot who thinks all minorities should be kept in check, a wise-cracker who has no problem bad mouthing women and gays, a bully who thinks America should throw its weight around when it come to foreign affairs. That's the "tails" on one side of the American coin. The "heads" on the other side represent those who secretly feel the same way but are trying to rise above it by being humanists instead of religious hypocrites. America is a big unfunny joke and everybody is crazy but me!

@Pioneer1Africa is still ravaged with diseases today because vaccines haven't been discovered to ward off all the parasites that infect them. And if we want to go by limited anecdotal evidence, I can tell you that when i was a youngster, every family I knew had lost a child to sickness or to death at childbirth and that included my own. It was not uncommon for fathers or mothers of my friends to die during middle age. I was told of a cousin in the south who contracted diphtheria and nearly died. As I said, TB took a great toll on black lives, and this also included relatively young people, a few of whom I knew. Influenza epidemics killed millions of Americans, great numbers of whom were young, before vaccines were introduced. And people actually died from appendicitis because it was not unusual for infection or blood poisoning to set in during surgery back then. And, of course, cancer and heart disease have always killed more blacks than whites because of the inferior medical treatment blacks receive. To conclude that black people or white people either, for that matter, were healthier 77 years ago and lived longer just doesn't wash. Antibiotics, serums and vaccines have improved the life expectancy of everyone. But, once again, you can believe whatever you choose to. If black youths are motivated to acquire "the bling", then they really are stupid if they think they will obtain it by committing petty crimes and drive-by shootings.

At a time when the Donald Trump phenomenon is stifling me, this video cleared the air and reassured me that my revulsion for right wing fascism, is justified. Kudos to the black brotha who squelched a wind bag of white entitlement.

I still refuse to underestimate the effect of black people using the media to get their message out. There are trade-offs involved in this equation. Time Magazine puts Kaepernick's picture on its front cover to sell issues, and publicizing Kaepernik's gesture keeps a dialogue going in regard to the empty words of the national anthem which was written by Francis Scott Key, a slave owner. And speaking of empty words, "empowerment" falls into this category because it is in the eye of the beholder. It is a word that needs to be put into context instead of being reserved for describing a mega position. Blacks can become empowered during small scale situations where they simply manage to gain the upper hand. Small victories are better than the inertia that results from waiting for blacks to flex their muscles on a large scale. If the NAACP and the Urban League wanted their leaders and deeds made known, all they'd have to do is to use FaceBook and Twitter to publicize this. They've apparently chosen to go about their work quietly, greatly dependent on the financial assistance they've always received from corporations and philanthropic foundations that are white.

Actually, I have never thought of FaceBook as a platform for starting a movement. To me, it is a place to learn and comment not only about what's current in the world at large, but in one's own personal sphere. I have never tried to recruit anybody for a cause on FaceBook or had anybody there ever recruit me for one. I do argue on FaceBook with people who express points of view that I disagree with and these exchanges usually involve religion and politics. I find such encounters stimulating but they've never inspired me to go on a crusade on their behalf. From what I can gather, Twitter would be the more likely place to launch an on-line movement. What I am specifically defending, is Colin Kaepernick's form of protest. His job provided him with access to a large audience and his celebrity automatically commanded the free media attention which he has taken advantage of, and made waves in the process. So I think his action had credibility, and the civil rights movement is what set the precedence for this attention-getting tactic. What I can deduce from the vocal critics of FaceBook and Twitter is not so much what these entities do, but who enables them to do it. Apparently, if it were black monopolies instead of white conglomerates exploiting and capitalizing off of black folks via these forums, then this would be acceptable because it would be putting money and power in the hands of black profiteers. So it's an issue not so much about integrity as it is about keeping the capital and influence derived from exploiting blacks in the possession of their own people. I am assuming the rationale for this would be that providing a place for black folks to bitch and bicker and promote and plug would provide jobs for others blacks. Whatever...

We do see it differently. People who demonstrate to call attention to their grievance, depend on the media to spread the word. The media becomes the instrument of protesters seeking a broad audience for the dramatizing of their cause. So it is used as much as it uses. And, how do you think you know about black people doing good things if this wasn't reported in the media? The good work doesn't make headlines because accomplishing things is not an agitation. These achievements, however, may very well be the final stage of a movement that began with drastic measures of public protest! Celebrities and the causes they embrace command attention because the public is riveted by what famous folks do, and when what they do benefits a worthy cause, then how bad can this be? Martin Luther King's March on Washington was a massive gesture of protest that was saturated with celebrities. Media from all over the world covered this dramatic event, which was what its organizers hoped for. Without extensive media coverage, the desired impact would not have been made. To this day, the march on Washington still generates news because hearing about it is what the people want, and the media gives people what they want. The masses leading their day-to-day, humdrum lives, would rather hear about the humanitarian activities of celebs than when the Salvation Army will be picking up old articles for resale in their outlets.

A lot has to do with motivation. Kids with potential have to be motivated to want to be the best that they can be. This is where the parents, or a special teacher come in. Sometimes the reward system works. But that inner spark has to be ignited and this is difficult because, as Chris suggests, it calls for underachievers to make a mature decision about whom they want their peers to be: the cool slackers or the honor roll dorks. Raising well-adjusted children is one of the hardest jobs in the world. And it also has to do with luck. Some kids are just natural self-starters

Any public gesture made in protest of what is considered a wrong, is a way dramatizing a grievance. The fact that this dramatization still has legs means that it has accomplished something, if nothing other than having made Kaepernick's targeted audience indignant and uncomfortable. That may well have been all he wanted to accomplish, and since he didn't know whether or not the outcome would be disastrous, he did risk his career. Furthermore he has pledged a million dollars of his money to aid "the cause" and that ain't exactly something empty. BTW, not only was Kaepernick's public display a gesture, it was a standard tactic dating back to the civil rights movement. And, actually, everything black people demonstrate about nowadays can be considered empty gestures since they don't seem to reap any results from marching and carrying signs.

@Pioneer1Well, if you want to continue believing that black people were all hale and hearty 75 years ago, based on anecdotal evidence from some old black southerners you talked to, then go right ahead. If you want to think, for some reason, that the life expectancy statistics of black people have been skewed, that's your prerogative. You've made up your mind that this is the case, so I see no point in arguing with you about an opinion you have formed based on a miniscule sampling of the black population from one area of the country. Africans may not have been infected with typhoid and diphtheria but they were dying from cholera,malaria, small pox, leprosy and a host of other tropical diseases. If there is a vaccine to cure generalizations based on limited observation, you need to take it.

“Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried.” WINSTON CHURCHILL

We gotta go with what we got. If it takes a bi-racial football player protesting on bended knee when the national anthem is played, then so be it. No denying that he has called attention to the empty words of this song and inspired other athletes to do the the same. And, as you both noted, when sports heroes take a stand, this hits the public where it hurts in a sport-crazed country like America. The black lives movement has no face. This group is perceived by an apathetic white public as a straggly bunch of black folks parading around chanting a slogan that simply reinforces the idea that black lives don't matter. But mess with the sacrosanct national anthem rendered amidst a flag bearing color guard in a venue filled with rabid fans, and a nerve is struck. I give Kaepernik his props for risking his career and popularity with a simply gesture that aggravates an element of the population that needs to be targeted: that blue-collar, Joe-6-pack, super patriot crowd, along with the glib sportscasters charged with not rocking the boat and, most of all, the team owners profiting off the blood sweat and tears of their black gladiators. Instead of belittling Colin Kaepernik, I say thanks to him for doing it his way, and his detractors need to find somebody else to put down since their criticism is not really constructive.

The white female cop who shot the unarmed black man in Tulsa has been indicted for second degree murder The black Chief of Police in Charlotte is requesting that the public not rush to judgment in this case, and that all videos have not been released.

No, Pioneer, black people were not healthier 75 years ago than they are today. Check the life expectancy of black folks 75 years ago. And before then, there was a high mortality rate among poorer children with many doing good to make it to their 10th birthday, dying at birth, or succumbing to such diseases as diphtheria, and typhoid fever. They also suffered from rickets and whooping cough and other debilitating childhood diseases such measles and mumps. Mothers frequently died in childbirth from such things as child bed fever.Tuberculosis also impaired the health of or eventually killed off a lot of black people Later, vaccinations wiped out all of these diseases as well as small pox and polio. Better medicine also dramatically lowered the death rate from TB. Now, as Troy noted, these diseases are making a come back, thanks to the anti-vaccine community, many members of which have been influenced by celebrity parents of autistic children, looking for an excuse to blame for their less than perfect children. My generation was vaccinated with the DPT serum that eradicated Diphtheria, Typhoid Fever, and Pertussis(whooping cough) and we were also vaccinated against small pox. Anybody my age, still has their vaccination scar on their upper left arm. We were routinely given these shots in school in the lower grades. It may have been different in the south, however. There are risks and side effects associated with any medication including preventive vaccines but the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of the benefits out weighing the risks. A lot of things have contributed to the degeneration of the species, including television and the computerization technology that spawned smart phones, video games and the Internet. I would add that food additives and crop spraying may also be culprits. As for vaccines, I go with erring on the side of caution.

That really was a great discussion with so much good input and insight. A look back at a glimpse of this forum's golden age.

Ol sarat has crawled out of her hole, leaving her droppings behind, providing false data. Troy, and CDBurns both have multiple degrees, and Del has a degree also, The more sarat says, the more she proves that having a degree apparently does not void stupidity or improve literacy. SMH. Pioneer can think circles around this "educated" fool who doesn't dare provide us with the name of the school she got her "piece of paper" from probably because of how second rate it is. LMAO

Paradox is right. While our black president Obama and the 99-year-old daughter of a slave were engaged in the ribbon cutting ceremony to herald the opening of the new Smithsonian African American Museum of History and Culture in Washington, D.C., protesters were demonstrating in Charlotte, NC, over the latest killing of an unarmed black man by cops. It's surreal. Hillary Haters really do need to bite the bullet and forget about not liking either candidate. If a Democrat doesn't get in, the Supreme Court will be packed with right-wing Republican appointees who will repeal all the laws that ensured individual rights and send us right back to the last century. Not to mention that all of those wackos who were running against Trump are now jumping on board, reportedly because he is promising them cabinet positions. And what black voter would want to be on the same side as 2 nutcases like Omarosa and Don King??? Or worst yet, Ben Carson! Does anyone have any arguments to offer that will make the idea of Trump as president palatable? Please state them so I can feel less depressed about the prospect of him getting elected. I can't even bring myself to watch the debate Monday night. I will be watching reruns on the Science channel about Ancient Aliens or Through the Wormhole or How the Universe Works. Earth is becoming too threatening for me.

I miss Chris, too. We needled each other and bickered a lot but we were really fond each other. He was bright and quirky. Wonder what happened to him?? He was from St. Louis and his book about "vampyres" was published by some fly-by-night publishing company Kola Boof was associated with. We really did have a good group back then. I'm FaceBook friends with Yvette, "Ferocious Kitty", Linda Watkins, "A Woman", "LambD", and "Yukio". Thumper, too, but he rarely posts. Wonder what happened to Mzuri, Crystal, Li-Li and ABM just to name of few.. I couldn't care less about Carey because he was one of those people I never clicked with, and the feeling was mutual. And we can't overlook all of Kola's groupies who were actually her posting under different names.

It's been said that Liberalism espouses the idea of "lifting others as you climb", while Conservatism adopts the "I-got-mine-now-you-get-yours" attitude. Democrats are associated with liberalism while Republicans are associated with the conservatism that is not as compatible with the disadvantages that define black circumstances. The black unity necessary to spawn a monolith has always been prescribed as the solution to black advancement, but it never comes about because of the prevalence of black diversity. Another scenario involves asking those who have "made it" to reach back and in their own small way try to "uplift others". An "each one, teach one" approach embraced by good role models could hopefully have a ripple effect. I think this is probably happening more than we realize and is awakening the dormant instincts of those who are among the fittest, inspiring them to strive. But things will never be perfect because weakness is a human trait and adversity is a worldly condition. Obviously i don't have all the answers, I can just speculate and talk off the top of my head, and when it comes to yesterday's black spirit as compared to today's, I would say that back in my day, we had high spirits, encouraged that things would get better as the civil rights movement got underway. Today, disappointment is lowering black spirits because things have started to regress. "A luta continua",,,

We argue about this all the time, Troy. I still say that it's better to try and emulate success than to resign yourself to replicating failure. Strong, determined people make the decision to do this. And they are able to do so because they don't bog themselves down with babies or join gangs as a way of coping. Yes, once a person does escape his/her negative circumstances, and gets out there in the rat race, all bets are off. But those who make it out of the ghetto are street smart scrappers ahead of the game because they know how to play hard ball. They are the strong representatives of the fittest. Life is not fair, and goodness is rarely rewarded so meritocracy isn't even a factor. But strong determination is a good weapon when battling for success, and there are a lot of black success stories. ( What do you call you and Chris??) What is the alternative to being self-sufficient? For blacks it depends on the whims of the white power structure and the unity of a black support system. Lotsa luck. When it came to race, I wasn't a politicized observer back during my early days growing up in an interracial town, but I would say that whites always do better than blacks, so however good blacks are doing today, their white "peers" are doing better. I'll get back to you on our spiritual losses.

IMO, In many ways black people, like everybody else, are better off materially than they were 75 years ago but spiritually they have lost something because they have become captivated by false values and addicted to instant gratification. And all the modern conveniences they enjoy have merely made the inconvenience of ongoing racism a little easier to endure. In the big picture, to me the question has always been, why have many blacks risen above their lowly circumstances and acquired financial independence, while others have not. I agree with Chris in that it would seem to have something to do with certain people having superior coping and decision-making skills. (The same can be said about white people because they, too, have an underclass of poor people.) Everybody is created equal, but every body is not endowed with equal intellect, abilities or talents, so when all is said and done, it really does seem to be about the survival of the fittest; or at least the thriving of the fittest. And, of course, Capitalism and Democracy are not compatible so America is a country suffering from a conflict of contradictions. Socialism is what admirably blurs the distinction between the "haves" and the "have-nots" but that form of government is stigmatized because, among other things, it stifles the free enterprise - that exploits others. Race inevitably enters the picture because of visible differences and a lingering xenophobia. Naturally, the race in power strives to maintain its supremacy over those who are perceived as a threat because they are the "them" against their "us". This simple scenario plays out in the war going on between Neanderthal cops and the sons of Lucy and it will probably get worse before it gets better. The complicated black problem in America is entrenched. One reason is because black apologists tend to intellectualize it, and in their analysis they start out with a premise. Then they can't figure out why the "ergo" they come up with doesn't work when tried, never considering that their premise was a false one. Once they state the problem correctly taking truth instead of idealism into consideration, maybe the solution will be more realistic.

Guess my post made ol sara so restless that she can't stay asleep. LMAO

LMAO Tell us, sara, what about you and your phony, silly, addle-brained self is enviable??????? You can't even write a coherent sentence. SMH

@Troy My feeling has always been than when anybody my age converses about the past, it is automatically history. But certain shallow people prefer to attack the messenger and dismiss the message because it doesn't fit in with their agenda. So I appreciate that you have the wisdom to understand that all history isn't is in books and that the narratve of one African American family is common to all blacks because, like you say, we are all related, all characters in different chapters of the same story. Blacks are very fortunate to have people like you who use their position and prominence to uplift the race. You are a true philanthropist and a very good human being, and I consider myself very fortunate to have you for a friend.

LOL This from sara who, in her post that preceded the one above, parroted what I said on another thread about how confident and unflappable black women were. A claim to which Troy responded saying, in effect, that a lot of black women he'd met were laughing on the outside and crying on the inside. Upon considering that his was a more compassionate assessment of many black women like Leslie Jones, I modified my opinion, also appreciating what Pioneer had to say in the process. (As sara, herself, did in trying to make her point through Pioneer's words. Co-opting what others say or write is what ol shallow sara has to resort to since she's not an original thinker.) Not surprising that the dysfunctional sara who is stuck in a state of denial, who can't bring herself to accept that the SOUTH side of Chicago has a high murder rate, who can't admit the she haunts this forum desperately seeking validation, who can't acknowledge anything that exposes the truth about her pathological lying, is incapable of conceding that her "happiness" stems from an aberration that places her in the minority, not the majority. Instead she passes flawed judgment on black women who haven't dealt with their frustration by becoming lesbians like she did in seeking escape from the bitter frustration of her past that has made her the maladjusted geek she is in the present. . The simple one-sentence post by Queen X is more cogent than sara's drawn out "theory" which is nothing but a re-hash of what everybody, including harry brown, had already implied, and the fact that sara isn't able to recognize that there is nothing profound about her conclusions, is just another indication of how clueless her inflated ego has made her.