((three months later))


Well shit....that was a pretty short conversation, lol.

Cynique

Well first of all, it's not about their being a LACK of success among Black men that bothers me about this.

Ofcourse I'd like Black men to do much better, but as far as a comparison over wealth and success between Black men and Black women....

I'm not 100% sure but if you take Oprah out of the picture their MAY bere more successful Black men just in professional sports like the NBA and NFL ALONE than almost all of the other Black women in the entertainment industry COMBINED.
....and I won't even start to include the tens or maybe hundreds of thousands of OTHER successful Black men in the sports, music, and other parts of the entertainment industry.
.....not to mention Black men OUTSIDE of the entertainment industry in the realms of education, finance, law, and other more professional careers.

So it's not a matter of jealousy or anger at our sisters "allegedly" doing better.
I personally think both sexes are doing about the same....in different arenas.....but BOTH should do much better.

It's about why the White media is hyping up Black women so much and ignoring Black men.



What's strange about it?

Why didn't these same media outlets like USA Today and CNN praise Black women in the past?

Again, WHY NOW?

It's clear they're trying to divide the sexes in the Black community and encourage Black women to leave Black men behind for men of other races....preferably White men.

That's what most of the feminism being pushed into the Black community is about.
It's not about empowering women to be equal; it's about encouraging Black women to LEAVE Black men behind.

They know full well that most Black women are not lesbian so if they leave Black men who are they going to get with....Japanese or Mexican men?
Hell no.
They have little choice BUT to choose the next in line......White men....given their power and wealth in this society.  

Now really.....

Does it take a White man to TELL us this before we are willing to believe it?

I mean, for decades and centuries Black people who didn't go to school could sit up in rocking chairs or even on logs and tell us about how they know God and what God has done for them in their lives from personal experience and how silly it is for someone to claim that God doesn't exist......and many of us don't take them seriously.
But all it takes is some White dude in glasses and a white lab coat or a title behind his name to come on and make a statmenet and now ALL OF A SUDDEN it has merit.
It has credit.


Ofcourse atheism isn't consistent with the scientific method because after your hypothesis you have to repeatedly experiment and observe the results in order to PROVE your position of non-existence.....and no one has been able to do this EVER.

The only somewhat "logical" conclusion someone who has experimented and yielded no results could come to would be AGNOSTICISM or the admission that you simply don't know.
But ATHEISM is a pretty firm declaration of non-existence and NO ONE has proven this.  ((probably because you can't "prove" a lie...lol))



I've maintained for years and I've even said on this site that most of the people in these universities who CLAIM to be atheist.....really are not.
Most of them not only believe actually do believe in Higher powers but pretend that they don't.
They are just saying it to DECEIVE their students and confuse them; especially students of color.
 

Del

Pioneer 39 - 42 but you mayeither stop working Dec 9 or that's your last check .

Less than 42 thousand???????????







But I find your statement that I might "stop WORKING by Dec 9 or it will be my last check" VERY interesting.
Infact, I find it quite encouraging given a few of my goals!

Even what you said about May is very significant for me given those goals.

Thanks for the response.

Black women's groups exercising new political power going into 2020 presidential campaign
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/03/10/black-womens-groups-leverage-their-clout-2020-elections/3101381002/

She Thrives

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/she-thrives
 

Has anyone else noticed that the mainstream media seems to be hyping up Black women in specific.....as opposed to Black people as a whole.....for their achievements lately?
They've even credited the "Black women's vote"....as opposed to the Black vote in general.....for wining certain local elections.


Not that our sisters DON'T deserve the credit and the attention they're getting,, because they certainly do.
Infact it's long over due.

But I find it very strange and even suspicious that the media has all of a sudden "discovered" them and what they've contributed to society; and more telling....why these same media sources seem to be purposely and quite blatantly leaving Black men OUT of the picture.

Chev

I'm learning a lot from this thread.

Keep posting more knowledge.

I believe both Troy and myself asked you specific questions.
 

8 hours ago, Delano said:

Clearly you haven't updated a faulty position. 

So rather than actually answering the question....(or admitting you don't know of any)....you resort to making baseless assertions.
Why am I not surprised?

If my position is "faulty" then instead of merely making the claim and moving on, PROVE it with a list of Black nations with more functional societies than China.

23 hours ago, Delano said:

China is a great example of social engineering that has gone wrong. It was officially ended in 2016. 

Show me an African, Caribbean or otherwise majority Black nation that is doing BETTER than the "socially-engineered dysfunctional China" and I'll consider THEIR family planning and reproductive practices in comparison.

Cynique

You can save all that 'splainin  for someone dumb enough to believe it, lol.

Like many women who grow up in this society, you clearly like powerful White men and admire them and you're seeking to justify it.
The "kindness" part is just the icing on the cake or the cherry on top of the sundae.

And when you say "kind" what you really mean is kind to YOU.
You don't give a damn how they treat other Black people and especially Black men with their power.

Just keep in mind that some of those "lucky" Black men and women you speak are victimized BY those same powerful White men whom you appreciate.

Del

Ok....
Will I make over $55,000 in 2019?
 

Troy

What....just one?

You suppose to have TWO!

One around your age who you can actually hold a conversation with; and another in her early twenties who can take care of yo' ass in your winter years....lol.

Ok.....

Whose going to be the Democratic Nominee for President in the 2020 election?

Deborah

Thank you for providing those two examples.
I also believe in the power of intention.
I've heard many people across many backgrounds describe it in many different ways but it all seems to involve some of the same basic and key concepts of visualization and intention.

BTW......
This is off the subject but I also live in the upper Midwest (Michigan) and keep telling Black people over and over again to STOP running away and moving down South...lol.

Whether it's for the weather, job oppotunities, or family.....it's not good for too many of us to just pile up down South and abandon the rest of America with her vast living space.
We need to make the Midwest and the Westcoast our home as well as the South.

Chev

Well again, I prefer QUALITY over QUANTITY.

You may believe simply reproducing and making more Black people to fill up this planet will be the key to our success, however if those Black people aren't raised properly with the proper frame of mind....the only thing they'll do is just bring more death and destruction not only to the Black race but to the planet.

The Native Americans were far superior to Caucasians in sheer numbers, but how well did they stand up against a cunning and better organized force who came with an AGENDA and a determination to carry it out?

When I look at not only the AfroAmerican community in the United States but also the Black communities on the continent of Africa, I see certain similarities of poor Black people who can barely take care of themselves having many children hoping "some" of them turn out ok but for the most part not carefully planning and designing their families.

Although China is far from the model or ideal nation, I believe the Chinese had the right idea to limit their births to only one per family UNTIL they were able to properly organize their nation and take care of everyone. Before they started it they were suffering from SEVERE famine and poverty problems.
I've heard they lifted that 1 child limit now that their nation is doing better economically.
Perhaps some African nations and the AfroAmerican community should take notes.....but that's just my personal opinion.




 

Cynique

It should've gone without saying that you were excluded from appreciating powerful white men who are kind because it's obvious you can't bring yourself to appreciate good character in a human being.

I don't remember Troy, Nubian, or even Delano co-signing on to loving and appreciating "powerful White men who are kind" either....lol.
Stop lying and claiming "everyone" supports this when it's only YOU TWO (you and Mel) who are sitting up hear extolling the virtues of powerful White masculinity.

In another thread you said:
 

Quote

 

I have never been someone who ran behind white folks and sucked up to them, and as an individual, my personal policy has always been to treat them whatever way they treated me, which, as it turned out, has always been with civility.
 

https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/5763-african-and-native-american-hair-type-the-comb-test/

 

Now that statement from you explains a lot.......

Given your mild, civil, and somewhat pleasant  experiences with them, I'm not suprised as to why YOU could  appreciate a "strong powerful White man who is kind" .
You obviously don't have the same concerns, angst, and apprehensiveness towards Caucasian authority that many Black men have because you haven't gone through what Black men have gone through with them.

Tsegal

While I agree with your assesment brutha, my question is what are the BLACK politicians who are already in office and have a "measure" of authority (however limited) to prevent this from happening actually DOING THEMSELVES to prevent this?

Don't forget that we have Black people who are mayors, representatives, senators (2 atleast) as well as federal and district judges at every level.

Are they actively engaged in preventing this attempted right-wing conserative coup-de-grace of the United States?
Or are they selfishly thinking only of themselves and their immediate families and spending what little weath and limited power they posses for their own personal satisfaction?

I maintain that the biggest problem with most of the AfroAmerican politicians who are in office at the federal, state, and local levels right now is not the FEAR of White Supremacy (although it does exist) but the INDIFFERENCE to it and a lack of actual concern about it as long as it doesn't affect them directly.

Mel

They are/ were brave enough to engage.
 

Either that or crazy enough not to know any better and got involved with you anyway.....lol.

Chev

This belief that you should go ahead and have children anyway because "God will make a way for them and see them through some how some way " is very pervasive though out our community. I've heard it from countless women when they were young . Unfortunately years later many of these children end up being abused, in and out of foster homes, in and out of jail, terrorize many of their communities, and even end up dead.

Further, I put QUALITY over QUANTITY.

I would rather see AfroAmericans at only 3 million but healthy (mentally as well as physically), well educated, happy, and prosperous.....than at 100 million broke, angry, criminal, confused, and otherwise dysfuctional.
 

One of the problems is the family structure in general.  The nuclear family for the most part doesn't work for our people.
In the ancient world the ENTIRE COMMUNITY used to help raise their children, now a days most parents (often single) are on their own to raise their children as best they can.
This is why I say in the future the nuclear family will be pushed to the side and group families where multiple men and women will raise children as a mini-village type will eventually become the norm.

Del

I seriously wonder whose team you are on

When it comes to disagreements on this site, no one has to "wonder" whose team YOU'RE on and will ALWAYS be on.....lol.
 

Mel

you"ve been unmasked as a hater of black women.

All that whining about "white supremacy" and it turns out "you" the hater here.

LOL 

((shakes head))

Anyway......

So in other words, you won't tell us SOME of the terribly things you've alleged Black men did to you to justify your resentment towards them.  I imagine you're not doing this for either one of two reasons:

1. NOTHING happened to you at the hands of a Black man and you are just using this "woe is me" crap as an excuse to justify your love for White men and contempt for Black men.

or

2. Yes you did go through some issues with Black men but as bad as they were you know they were no worse than what White women have gone through with White men in their relationships; thus it doesn't justify your anti-Black man nonsense.


Either way, you've been given multiple opportunities to justify your resentment and contempt for Black men and why you felt that that particular White man was so much better....but you failed to provide them.
As far as I'm concerned any story of mistreatment at the hands of Black men you come up with after this will not be trusted.

Chev

It's about TIME you responded.
I was waiting on YOU to respond to my post and all of these little "gremlins" popped up making a lot of noise...lol.
But to answer your questions in detail:

No I haven't been married to a woman of ANY race.
Engaged twice...to Black women both times....but not married.
So don't let Mel trick you by throwing that "to a Black woman" part in there, lol.
And no, no children either.
For two reasons:

1. I've been called ugly on more than one occasion so that cuts down on the amount of women who would want to marry and reproduce with me......lol.

2. I've been in the lower income bracket for much of my life and and still am.
After witnessing what happened to one of my brothers, some of my cousins, and many other poor Black men in my community who had children by "accident" without being financially secure and mature enough to support them...I made the decision early in life to NOT have children until I was both married and financially stable.  Although some have been disappointed, EVERY woman I've ever been involved with has respected my decision.

But ofcourse people are free to make their own decisions as to when to get married have have children; however the years and years of community organization and social work I've done has shown me that over 60% of the problems Black people in America have can be DIRECTLY attributed to having children by "accident".....instead of properly planning for them. Having children they weren't psychologically mature enough or financially stable enough to take care of and those children grow up angry and with hate because they KNOW they weren't wanted and weren't treated properly growing up.  I said I wasn't going to contribute to that.
 

Del


You seem to miss the point, that she didn't indict all Black Men nor did she praise all White Men. Yet you are judging her heart and her choices. Then you want her to bare her sole about painful experiences.

MORE hypocrisy from the same one who told Mel just a day ago:
 

Quote

 

If or when you can put pain to paper. You will free yourself from the past and others in the future. That's is my feeling.

Baring your pain and shame is reliving it until it has no power over you.

 

I asked her to provide a few solid examples of what a Black man has ACTUALLY DONE to her as evidence to justify her disrespect and defamation of Black men collectively.
(something she has yet to do)

YOU...on the other hand...were the one begging her to '"bare her pain and shame"....probably for your entertainment.

And the fact that she wouldn't (or couldn't) provide any examples of what I've asked is VERY telling.

Could it be that NO Black man has actually treated her any worse than the White men she's been with but she just put that "abusive Black man" stereotype out there to JUSTIFY her rhetoric?




Some of the characteristics you associate with black men are incredibly negative.

As if you and your repeatedly failed predictions are helping the reputation of astrologists....lol.






Mel
 

I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again - his avatar reminds me of a group of people using one account. The Pioneer1 account displays as the social media’s version of FBI’s cointelpro... or the reverse black kkk lol -

I’m not phased by the Pioneer1 account - I’m tickled by it ... reminds me of the black uncle everyone keeps their distance from and says "yea ok".

That was a nice but failed attempt at deflecting......

You can toss accusations about "black kkk" and "multiple accounts" all you want but I'm not the one who is low-key encouraging Black women to leave Black men and get with White men....YOU ARE.

I'm not the one claiming that the best and kindest man in the whole wide world is a White man.....YOU ARE.

I'm not the one who suggests that Black women defend Black men too much ....YOU ARE.

If Black men need defending then they must be under attack.
And if you're suggesting that Black women defend Black men too much, perhaps you feel that the attack upon Black men is justified or deserved.




Cynique

i said i can appreciate a powerful white man who is also kind, which is what we all said, but you continue to distort this because you are so consumed with envy and insecurity.
 

The only one lying (well...not the "only" one apparently) is YOU.
Because "we all" didn't say we appreciated powerful White men (kind or not).
YOU AND MEL are the ones who said this.
I don't recall if Chevdove co-signed or not so I won't put that on her, but to say "we all" said it is a straight up lie.



Nubian Fellow actually called me "queen"; ......, and i actually think of him as a "son" more than anything. i don't have to adhere to what you have deemed is mandatory for embracing one of my own.

And how did you REPAY the honor he gave you, Cynique??
Did you call HIM a "King"????
Did you call HIM a "son"????

Or did you continue to argue with him over whether or not he should be concerned about the self-esteem of the women of his community?

I hope you didn't miss Mel's post preceding this one.

NO I didn't miss it!
I'm actually reading her posts anticipating that she'll post an example of all of this pain and abuse she CLAIMS she's experienced at the hands of Black men to justify why she loves bashing THEM while at the same time praising A White man as the best and kindest man in the whole wide world.

5 minutes ago, Delano said:

What makes you qualified or by what authority can you assess what is a proper union. 

 

Lol....what makes you qualified to even be in my presence????

Cynique


With nothing to back you up, you have tried to make him your ally by planting the idea in his head that we aren't or wouldn't be his ally

I didn't have to "plant" anything in his mind.
I've barely said anything to him since coming into this thread.
I've simply illustrated this fact by pointing to the direct words of both YOU and MEL along with co-signing from Delano.

Not only are you 3 proudly declaring how acceptable and justified it is to support loving and praising White men over Black men, but you 3 are steadfast in it and are proving synergistic support to eachother.
 

Finally, why wouldn't we consider Nubian Fellow a "brother"?

Because he doesn't share YOUR values of contempt for Black men.
As many times as he's called you sister/sista....you haven't (to my knoweldge) returned the favor.  Which I wasn't surprised about, because I already knew....lol.
And even if you started doing so, it wouldn't matter because it would just be you covering your tracks. 

Chev

That is a form of White Supremacy. We as Black people can also be defined as being 'White Supremacist' and that is why I don't feel that you should charge other INDIVIDUALS and attack them for issues that you feel are White Supremacist beliefs.

I haven't "attacked" Mel.
I'm simply pointing out her background to illustrate a broader point.
Trust me, if I "attacked" someone on this site there would be NO doubt in your mind what was taking place because Troy would have to get involved, lol.
 

Further, you're corrrect......
Black people CAN be White Supremacists and although it's not completely their fault for the way they think, we still must be careful NOT to trust them or their motives when they are among us because of their ability to poision the minds of others.

A Black White Supremacist woman will go among other Black women who believe in women's rights and TURN their angry and rage from men in general to BLACK MEN in particular while at the same time slowly justify why they should submit to White male dominance and choose White male partners OVER the Black men.
They may claim "men" in general are the problem....but in reality only ONE SPECIFIC type is their focus.




Do you think that Black African Americans should not marry out of their race/culture?

It depends on WHY they are getting married to those outside of their race and it also depends on how much control and power they will assume in the relationship.

Remember, marriage in Western society isn't so much about love but also FINANCIA and SOCIAL.
If the AfroAmerican is wealthy and the non-AfroAmerican they are marrying is less than that and has very little power of influence, then they should definately sign a prenuptual agreement or probably not get married at all.



 

I don't watch TV that much but I have seen shows in which it is commonplace in how Black men obsess over non-Black women and I don't see this coming from any other race/culture! You don't see the connection to 'oppression' in this regard?

Latino men and Arab men are notorious for lusting after White women and many openly prefer blonde White women over their own, yet you don't hear Latina and Arab women condemning and dissing their own men all over television, the movies, and the internet.

And NO....
I don't consider a man who lusts after women of other races a form of "oppression" against his own woman.
It's wrong.
It's self destructive.
It's ignorant, inappropriate, and in many cases down right stupid....but not oppressive.

Let's keep things in their proper perspective and not just MAKE UP things to put on Black men to justify our criticizms.

Black men....collectively.....ARE NOT oppressing Black women today.
They are not in a position to even if they wanted to.




Black men were not protecting their people for some reason.

I agree! And it happens both ways though, sadly, IMO. It happens both ways, we, as BLack men and women demean each other in this mode and I suppose that may have been one of the reasons we were overpowered and enslaved.

I agree with BOTH of these statements.

You're right! I have been dodging! And, I do have some personal stories but, I am trying to figure out how to write them down and am wrestling with some thoughts for certain reasons

You shouldn't have to try THAT hard.
If what Black men did TO YOU was that bad you should immediately be able to recall it.
You should be able to recall it as easily as you recalled what that White principal did.

If you need help coming up with STORIES about how terrible Black men have treated you, perhaps you should buy a few from Mel...lol.

Del

Again, you try and call out Nubian over HIM allegedly speaking for women's concerns while not being a woman, but YOU have been guilting of doing the same thing YOURSELF with regard to the concerns of feminists!

Do you recognize the hypocrisy on your part?

1 minute ago, Mel Hopkins said:

 

@Pioneer1 Why do you ask? 

Because THESE are heinous acts that most women find too difficult and/or  traumatic to talk about.


 

18 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

 

This is powerful!

 

We do protect a black man’s image, don’t we? 

 

I think this is why so many are having a negative reaction to the R Kelly saga... Black women have covered black men for so long - that many (mostly men but women too) are shocked that a black woman produced and directed the film that gave his alleged victims a platform. 

 

Many black women have normalized the horrible treatment they’ve receive at the hands of black men, they call men “soft” who treat them well. 

 

Go on social media and you’ll see some black men say they  are supposed to be “Future” to their “Ciara”.   Instead of being kind to their woman; as Ciara’s husband “Russell” is to her.    

 

Those are the same black men who believe Ciara will tire of how well her husband treats her and her son with Future and she’ll come crawling back to Future.   That’s how brain damaged some of young black men (and black women) are today. 

 

But I digress.    I know some of my experiences with black men aren’t for publication either. And I can tell you, it’s those stories that haunt me; making it difficult to finish my second book. 

 

Some times, I tell myself that I’m being too sensitive or maybe I deserved it - but then I realize that is exactly how battered women rationalize their relationship experiences.  

 

 So, yes I’ve been sorely disrespected by many black men. None of it deserved. But those experiences afforded me a lot of painful life lessons too.  And now I know what it is like to experience kindness. 

 

Yet, I absolutely understand your position. 

So are you saying that your experiences with Black men are too difficult for you to even talk (or type) about?

You're clearly alive, do you have any traumatic injuries or disabilities (physical) that you've received at the hands of a Black man?

Have you ever been incarcerated or PHYSICALLY held against your will for more than 24 hours by a Black man?

On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 4:21 PM, Guest Deborah Turner-Bey said:

I guess I would have to say no because the question doesn't really have meaning for me. Now, if you ask me for 3 specific incidents where my knowledge of the physical universe allowed me to create significant things or circumstances in my life that I otherwise would not have attempted, then I can answer you. But I'm not sure that's what you want to know.

Ok.
Well then I'd like to hear some examples of your knowledge of the physical universe manifested things and circumstances in your life!

I'll take what I can get, lol.
 

Thank you for this thread Chev, I love hearing PERSONAL TESTIMONIES to hisorical events!
I place much more value in them than I do in mere "information" presented in history books because they provide much more detail as well as an aire of legitimacy that contemporary historic scholarship doesn't for me.

A few quick points I'd like to make................


1. Having a White racist mother herself, your husband's grandmother was actually MIXED RACE and that explains how a lot of the poision of racism came into many of these so-called "Native American" communities down the line.
This is one of the reasons I'm so specific and detail orieinted when it comes to defining race and insisting that mixed people are MIXED PEOPLE and shouldn't be called "Black" or "White" or "Native American".
....to prevent confusion.

Which leads me to my 2nd point.


2. I'm careful to separate TRUE Native Americans who tend to be brown skinned with straight Black hair and more rounded features....from MIXED RACE people who CLAIM to be Native Americans but actually have predominately Caucasian genes.
These fake $5 Indians who own many of the casinos in the United States tend to be nearly White skinned and are very racist against not only AfroAmericans but even TRUE Native Americans!

This causes confusion for a lot of AfroAmericans because often times they'll encounter racism or read about a racist incident from one of these FAKE Indians and then make the mistake of believing "Native Americans" did this or felt this way.

Many of these fake phony $5 Indians actually owned slaves but few people know that they were actually either Caucasians or Caucasians with only a trace amount of Native American ancestry DISGUISING themselves as Native Americans.

3. Although you didn't go into detail on it, people should know that Africans have been living in the Americas WITH the Native Americans for hundreds if not thousands of years BEFORE Columbus.
Hell, even Columbus reported seeing Black African "tribes" who dwelled with the Native Americans.

Mansa Musa's brother Abubakari and a crew of other Africans saild over here during the 13th century and the Olmec heads of African men with helmets could very well be more evidence of this.

5 hours ago, Delano said:

How can you understand what someone's problem is, if you aren't them. Or dinner  experience their triumphs and frustration. How can a man know what life is like for a woman. 

  How can you ask these questions of NF when just a few days ago YOU were speaking for feminists and what they took issue with even though YOU weren't one yourself?






 

22 hours ago, Cynique said:

I gave information as to the current status of the case, something you can't comprehend because you are repelled by facts. 

You shouldn't confuse mere INFORMATION with FACTS.