Troy

I hope you are right, but removal from office by year's end seems highly unlikely.

No Del, everything is not up for debate. Facts, despite modern media's inclination to do so, is a waste of time. I'm surprised you would even make a statement like this. Why would any reasonable person, whose time is valuable, "debate" facts? My God man, are you still continuing to question the fact that people in jail are less educated than the general population?! What about "street knowledge?" People with real street knowledge stay out of jail. Your reasoning is lost on me. The incredibly ridiculous claim that getting an education is sounds like eugenics is simply absurd. @Pioneer1 do you co-sign Del's statement? Is the eugenics argument why you are rejecting the notion of education bettering people and perhaps leading them to a less violent way of life? No one here has said that uneducated people are worth less than educated ones and need to be exterminated?! Why go off the deep end Del? It should be axiomatic that individuals better themselves through education. Only someone with a low class mentality (regardless of their net worth) would think otherwise.

@harry brown, Oprah is trying to maximize revenue. If putting on football players like Kaepernick and other advances her goal of making money she'll do it. You can't become a billionaire trying to do what is "right" -- especially if it is for Black people.

This is the heart of why I'm saying @Delano is being disingenuous. Del, @Cynique has been called a LOT of things on these forums over the past 15 years or so but "nonsensical" is not one of them, perhaps because it has never been warranted. Del you said that @Pioneer1 has taken the following position: You are wrong Del. What you wrote is simply a false statement. The position I've asserted is that income is independent class; this is the position Pioneer has agreed with. If you stopped jocking Pioneer for a second, this would would be clear. Again, I don't understand your motivation. You are exhibiting an intellectual dishonesty for a reason I simply can not devine. @Pioneer1 of course agreement is allowed. However the way you expressed that agreement was not clear. Generally the word "agree" or some synonym is used

No @Cynique "writing wrong" is exactly was Del is doing. @Pioneer1, I don't really understand what you mean by that statement, but I'm sure it is not a position that I've asserted here, or in our in previous conversations, nor is it related to the title of the conversation you started: "Are Less Educated People More Prone To Violence?" It is obvious, to any educated person, that prisoners are significantly less educated than the general public. Again there is a correlation between education and propensity to violence. This is nt really up for debate. We can debate the reasons for this correlation, but I suspect we will find common ground there.

@Pioneer1 yes, I know, I just said that. What is you point? Also, tipping is not a middle class value. However not tipping is a low class value.

Pioneer you did not answer my question: Do you think that the percentage of people with a college education, incarcerated for violent crime is higher than the percentage of people in the general populations? (a simple "yes" or "no" would suffice) My definition says "...learning how to apply it." Besides it seems like you are less focused on trying to understand what Im saying and much more focused on trying to figure out different ways to dispute it. That is probably why you did not answer my question... I even put it in boldface so that you would not miss it. Your position is that educated people commit just as many violent crimes as uneducated people, but get away with it because they are slicker, know more lawyers, and can afford better representation. Your statement would is difficult to disprove because it is based upon the assumption that unsolved violent crimes are committed by educated people who were smart enough to get a away with it. We can;t know who has gotten away with unsolved or unreported crimes. We could look at the educational levels of those tried, but not convicted, but of course many of these people might actually be innocent-- regardless of educational level. So there is no information (that I'm aware of) which would prove any of the statements that you made. @Pioneer1, do you have anything to support any of the statement that you've made? I think the relative educational level of those incarcerated, while not perfect, is a decent indicator. It is certainly better than the proof you provided which is zilch.

Yes I agree political correctness has run amok, Americans have started using the term Latinx as opposed to Latino and Latina: it is like referring to someone's gender is an insult! Even the voices of the female voice of Siri and Alexa defaulting to a feminine voice is insulting because this supposedly cast women into subservient roles. I previously described a application I was about to fill where the gender category had at least 10 other options besides male and female -- who thinks up this stuff? But this is different than empathy. The people who think this stuff up dont consider the people they are trying to help. They generally had a personal agenda. Many people from the Latin American community reject the term Latinx and many women don't care one way or the other which gender the voice Siri uses (I wish they would have a Black woman's voice preferably with a southern accent). Cosby will likely go to jail because of the #metoo movement. Honestly, I think after he gave this women $3 million she should not have a case. Cosby is still a degenerate, but the #metoo movement's political correctness claimed Cosby as a victim. This #MeToo "movement" has seemingly blown over as we wait around for the next bullshit revenue generating Twitter promoted hashtag to comes along in the meantime, R.I.P. #Occupy, #BlackLivesMatter, #FeeltheBern, #Change

Most people who define themselves as middle class are actually poor. Middle class people can lose their job and continue to live without a change in their life style for at least 6 months. Upper class people don't have to work. They have enough wealth to live without income from some corporation or government entity. Sure, they may choose to work, but they don't have to. This is a very small percentage of the population and they hold the vast majority of the nation's wealth. Most are born into this class. The rest of us are simply poor. Poor people can have middle class values, but still financially poor. I think this is a growing portion of ur population. Similarly upper class people can have low class values. It is not likely that a poor person with low class values will make it into the middle class without engaging in criminal activity. Poor people, with middle class values, aspire to get an education. Unfortunately it is getting harder to make it into the middle class and stay their as an increasing number of us are stuck living paycheck to paycheck without health insurance or decent benefits. The disenfranchisement of the middle class is why 45 was elected... indeed it was why Obama was elected.

We have to look at the nature of the training. As I said there are people who have college educations but are the proverbial "educated fools." The Nazi SS were highly training, but were evil as hell, personally killing many non-Arians. I'm not talking about people who are educated to improve themselves not to d the bidding of others (like police officers and MBAs). Look I'm have not presented data to support my position either -- indeed no one has on either side of this argument has. But @Pioneer1 I'll repose the same question I posed in the other conversation that everyone ignored: Do you think that the percentage of people with a college education, incarcerated for violent crime is higher than the percentage of people in the general populations? I'm pretty sure the answer to this question can be found on the web, but what do you think the answer is and why? I think that the people incarcerated for violent crimes are less educated. Again, the reasons are not black and white. Less educated people, tend to be poorer, are simply more likely to be incarcerated, so the sample is biased. Using the same logic I could easily say Black people are more likely to be violent too. But again I was not saying a lack of education is the cause I'm saying there is a correlation. Perhaps if we look at he reasons for the correlation will find some reasons for it.

@Cynique, do not get me wrong Cosby is a degenerate, but I had not heard the one about sucking the toes of a woman he drugged. Putting myself in the position of the victim (rather than Cosby) helped me understand their situation. I think (and I'm not talking about anyone here) the problem Americans have is their inability to empathize with others, especially Black people and poor people.

LOL! you are a wiley one aren't you. Just confirm that you have not beaten up anyone lately and I'll rest my case.

OK they say the 3rd time is the charm... @Delano, why did you get an MBA? Humm, could if have been because you were interested in bettering yourself?

The Story of the Moors In Spain by Stanley Lane-Poole was a surprise bestseller. He is English Egyptologist who died in the 1930's. His work however is recognized as being quite substantial and accurately portrays the impact of Africans in Europe. I'm reading Barracoon now. I actually visited Eatonville, last week, where Zora Neale Hurston (the author) is from.

What?! Cosby drugging a woman to suck on her toes -- he is a freaky ole devil. Well I don't think you are trying to exonerate Cosby Cynique, but your word choice does suggests some level of "condoning." For example, you wrote the women were "asleep" when in fact they were drugged and knocked unconscious. It was not like they laid down and took a nap. "Violated" seems like a euphemism too when describing what Cosby did. I'm not trying to give you a hard time Cynique, indeed I initially defended Cosby as if he were a victim of a conspiracy rather than a victim of his own sick behavior. Remember the documentation I shared over three years ago explaining how each accusers accusation was questionable? Well they "proved" Cosby "violated" that woman in PA -- and Cosby's $3MM pay off did not work! Cosby probably was never accused because he could always write a check...

Troy Definitions for the purpose of this discussion Education: The process of acquiring knowledge and learning how to apply it. This can be done through formal education and training or independently. It is not uncommon for a college education to fail miserably at providing an education and there are very educated people that never set foot on a university campus. Violence: Engaging in the activity of physically assaulting someone. This includes drugging someone and fingering them while they are unconscious (ala Mr. Cosby). But does not include Obama's military calling drone strikes. I'm talking about the action of an individual on others.

@Delano Really? {I just edited my previous post. I know most of what I posts has typos. I do edit them when they are particularly egregious (when I catch them), but my last post was almost incomprehensible. I need to take more time to correct what I write before hitting save. This is just a catch-all apology. I try to do better}

@Delano you may have missed my question why did you get an MBA? Yes I am implying that uneducated people are more prone to violence. I'm not saying that education, or lack thereof is the cause, but there is a correlation would you agree? @Cynique, what Cosby is accused of doing is a degenerate move. Now that I'm back in the dating scene, I cant image doing what Cosby did to anyone. He is a low-life. This is not date rape where "no" means "yes." He He incapacitated people by drugging them without their consent and sexually assaulted them. He really belongs in jail (assuming he is guilty). If some female I was out with drugged me then started shoving thing up my rectum. She better just cut my throat while she is at it cause when I wake up -- she was I had 4 Phds

@Delano People get an education "to make more money." See this is what I mean; I do not believe that you think so little of humanity that even you believe what you wrote. Many people go to college to improve themselves I take course from time to time to acquire more knowledge. Indeed I teach to acquire more knowledge. We all read a variety of things to learn more about the world so that we can better navigate it, to appreciate and enjoy it more. I'm surprised you'd give such a shallow callus response to the question of why people get an education. Del perhaps I was not clear because clearly or you are not understanding what I wrote. I never said education makes people less violent. I said there is a correlation. If you reread my earlier post, you'll see I did not say it was causal relationship between violence and education. I said their as a correlation: one only need to look at the educational levels of those currently incarcerated for violent crimes and compare it to the general popular to see this correlation. Let's try this: Why did you bother to wasting all that time, energy, and money getting an MBA Del? Why to you continue to read books? Are YOU doing all of this just to make more money? @Cynique, initially I agreed with you regarding Cosby, but I decided not to bother with challenging what he did as violent. I think sexual assault is a form of violence. If Cosby did that to one of mine, he would have some serious problems (I don't care how many degrees I have, somethings just bring the ghetto out of you ). If Cosby paid for his degrees, then his situation would just make my point.

@Cynique, as I wrote in reaction to Chedove this is not a black and white argument, the subject is much more nuanced as you last post illustrated. Still I'm stubbornly trying to get Del to coneed that not only is there is a difference between having an education and not having one, but that it is also better to have an education. Of course there are educated fools and brilliant people who have no formal schooling. again I'm talking about the general case. My point about an educated person being less predisposed to reacting violently over a personal slight does not mean that the difference is causal, but that there is certainly a correlation. Of course there are always exceptions, outliers, and anomalies. To use these to loosely related exceptions like, Bill Cosby, just to refute a point seems disingenuous to me. In the final analysis, Del won't answer my question "why should anyone bother to get an education?" Because the answer is obvious and it would dismantle his argument.

OK @Delano, why should anyone bother to get an education?

@Delano, You still have not answered my question. I won't pose it a 4th time. Actually when I was writing about you being touchy about your academic credentials, I was thinking about your recent reaction to K2's questioning them. You obviously feel they are important, but you won't come out and say it now. Your education distinguishes you from your less educated Brethren -- embrace it Seriously, if you don't know no one else will... indeed a problem in our culture we don't value educational achievement: it is as if learning is something white boys do. How can I know if you are posting your true thoughts? When I ask you a direct question, for clarification, you ignore it. So I, reasonably, assume you are hiding what you truly believe as not to undermine your argument, or to appear elitist, to protect Pioneer, or for some other reason I can not devine. @Cynique There is psychology that explains mob violence. It explains why otherwise compassionate people can be moved to do very evil things

It endures because the ones in charge rule with an iron fist... and you better not mess with their money! There will be a movie made about the kids ordeal I'm sure. It made for perfect the very lucrative "entertainment news" we provide. Honestly I grew tired of hearing about the story. But again other more important stories don't lend themselves to reporting like this story. The individuals were immobile so camera crew could be set up easily, it was good for at least a couple of weeks of infotainment, the story was a cliffhanger, even Elon Musk got involved for a plot twist -- a diver even died during the effort. Wow. Children raised in America, truth be told, would not have been placed in that position. We generally don't endanger our little darlings in such a fashion.

I think you are on to something The problem is that it is hard to operate in our current system where the greedier you are the more you are rewarded. The more you can destroy you "competition" the better you are perceived. If you company can grow more profits buy paying works less -- it is all good. Black people will continue to be influenced by what you describe as "caucasian economics" because this is the yardstick that we measure ourselves. This has never served us, but I don't see it changing anytime soon. When the whole system collapses (it is not likely any of us will be around when it happens), perhaps then we will see productive change.

See this is what makes debating you guys impossible: Del does not answer any directly posed questions and Pioneer (like) Del continue to introduce extraneous issues that have nothing to do with the core point I've made. Pioneer we were talking about violence initiated because of minor slights like talking about one's mother, when you cherry picked my quote you took it out of context. Pioneer, as an educated man, I'm not about to go up to anyone and talk about their mother. Your proposed "experiment" is just silly. Did you really expect me to do that, to disprove your point? You are Del are so desperate, you'll dredge up anything you can come up with to confuse and muddle the point I made, and still stand buy, which is: Less educated people are more likely to react violently when someone speaks about the mother than more educated people. This includes additional other perceived personal slights like stepping on ones shoes or getting cut off it traffic. All these issues raised about presidents sending people to wars, degenerates like Bill Cosby, or white collar crime are besides the point. Pioneer says he would react violently if someone spoke about his mother. Again I suggest this is a function of his education. Del refuses to answer the question because he knows admitting that he would behave in such a fashion would make him look childish. Plus Del does concede points easily -- instead he obfuscates the issue with unrelated points and engages in name calling (like calling me elitist when he knows full well I'm not). While Del does not concede points easily he will do it from time to time. Pioneer on the other hand never admits he made a mistake, was wrong, or even misunderstood something (@Delano pioneer must be a fixed sign right?) Obviously, as I pointed out to @Chevdove, these issues are not as cut and dried as my bold faced statement above makes may make it seem.