Troy

@Chevdove, often merely disagreeing with something is seen as a personal attack. There are people I can't even have a conversation with because if I disagree with them they take it personally -- and that is in the real world where I'm not nearly as direct as I am here. The other problem is everyone is different. Take Pioneer's demand for an apology for example. He feels K2 crossed a line and now he deserves an apology But he can't see that the line he created is purely arbitrary, of his own making, and no one else is bound to accept it. That does not mean his line is wrong or right, but I'm not going to ban people crossing every arbitrary line that someone has crossed. K2 could simply invoke some arbitrary line that Pioneer crossed and demand an apology too. This is a lose-lose scenario @Pioneer1 banning you both would obviously bring an end to the bickering. But again, I would not do that because you are both capable of making meaningful contributions to the forum and I don't ban people for getting into arguments -- these things happen. It is just this argument has gone on for sometime and I was curious what you other people really thought about it. {Donning my hotep hat} It does pain me to see two Black Kings tearing each other down.

Word. Actually Chevdove created her account several years ago, I'm not sure why she just started regularly. We get scores of new registrants every month, but outside of those looking to get their book reviewed few actually post.

@Mel Hopkins Yes arbitrary, subjective, and often unjust -- particularly as they relate to Black people. Mel do you think Harry would marry Gabby? Does anyone here think he would (for all the reasons one might image) or am I just making stuff up? Ebony is far from the magazine it once was. I've written about that here a couple of times here, but Ebony is not unique. We have lost so much media there is not one Black owned daily newspaper in all of America --despite all of our education, wealth, and talent.

Don't hold your breath. 45 is an easy target and comforting a gang is a whole 'nother ball game. Many of the problem was have we can solve ourselves, but we don;t because we've been largely trained to support the entities that don;t care about us, while not supporting each other. I don't know how to change that other than trying not to do it myself.

K2 I've deleted a portion of your comment for the reason previously discussed. Again the rule applies only to this to this conversation. Cynique makes a good point if the barbs witty and clever AND written in jest it is all good -- indeed desirable. And the fact she stopped reading the posts was what I was afraid of happening. If she is not reading them why would someone, who is new, read them? @Chevdove, waded through the morass and made some excellent contributions only to inquire why did the conversation go south? Her question was part of the motivation for this discussion Mel, K2 as far as a vote down button. I'm sure that would not have any effect. Indeed Pioneer does not even use the like feature. Generally, if I disagree with something I express that disagreement with words. But I'll check to see if the software has a dislike or down vote options. You can currently block a posters comments, allowing you to completely ignore another poster. That approach is pretty heavy handed, but it has been used by some. Well, I look forward to more comments.

Sure Mel commodities have value, but the value must be the same for each unit for it to be a commodity. If every ounce of gold had a different price it could not be traded reliably and would not be a commodity. The way you are using the word is confusing for this reason. If your point is to say that people have value; I say of course they do. Or are you saying that we all have the same value, and this is why "marrying up" does not make sense? ---- K2 by your description Mehgan is like any woman. Again this is a notion that I reject because not all women (or men) are the same, some have more "value" than others when it comes to marriage. The reality is marriage, at least a successful one, is more like a great business relationship with "benefits."

@Pioneer1 and @Kalexander2 has been going at it pretty regularly for a few months now. I was just wondering what others (lurkers please chime in) thought about it. Is it entertaining, destructive, boring, an shame, funny, sad, or something else? I'm really very curious to read what others think. Battles like this are not uncommon indeed when there were more participants they were more frequent, though not as usually as protracted. The last ongoing battle was between Cynique and another poster. I maintained a hands off approach until the other poster wrote something that was really beyond the pale (at least in my book), so I deleted the offending post. The poster reacted by deleted all of her posts and leaving the forum the virtual equivalent of taking her marbles and leaving the playground On some level I believe that posters goal was to create utter havok. She left when it became obvious that I would allow her to go completely off the rails. Personally, I don't really care that much as long as people don't get too crazy and it does not get serious. Whether something has gotten serious is hard for me to tell. I can't tell what is said in jest and what is serious -- simply because I can't follow every conversation. Truth is, I don't have the time (nor inclination) to be a proper administrator. This is part of the reason for my largely hands off attitude. The other concern I have is that the protracted bickering tends to turn people off who are new to the forums -- it is intimidating to many. Besides the fact that the constant back and forth just clutters that board obscuring what might otherwise be interesting conversations. What do you think? Also if the name calling starts (or indirect insults) on this conversation I'll delete the posts. I'm only interested in serious comments.

No, nothing I can think of that would take precedence over the other things that they need to know to survive here in America. But maybe I'm missing something. Tell me what Meghan can teach my daughter besides how to nab a wealthy white man? Still, I don't buy into the notion that Mehgan is like any other "Black" woman. The suggestion that she is ignores a wide variety of things that are part of western culture. Now if Harry married Gabourey Sidibe or Leslie Jones you might have a point, but you and I both know something like that would never happen -- not in 1 billion years

Come on @Kalexander2 Megahn is a white-looking multimillionaire celebrity she is not Nay-Nay from the projects. Let's not pretend that all people are the same or viewed the same way. @Mel Hopkins, people are not commodities for he reasons described above, a barrel is crude oil is, a bustle of corn is, but people are not -- we are unique, so we can not be "commodities." No two people or groups of people are equal. We, necessarily, made assessments of the "quality" of people every day. Whether you are hiring a welder, surgeon, or basketball player some people are better than others depending upon how they are being measured. If people were truly commodities it would not matter if Mehgan married me, Pioneer, or Prince Harry. But the reality is that we are not commodities; a wealthy Prince is worth more than struggling bookseller. Hence "marrying up" is an appropriate description. This is not a western construct; we, in the west, are more likely to marry across class, race, religion, than many other cultures.

‘Roots’ Plagiarism Suit Is Settled DEC. 15, 1978 Alex Haley settled a lawsuit yesterday by acknowledging that his world‐renowned book “Roots” contained some material from a relatively unknown novel about slavery that was published nine years earlier. The settlement ended the six‐week trial of a suit by Harold Courlander, a 70‐year old author from Bethesda, Md., who contended there were substantial similarities between “Roots” and his own earlier novel, “The African.” He sued in Federal District Court in Manhattan for more than half the profits of “Roots.” ----------- @Kalexander2 You missed the information because the Black community largely ignored it. Most of the people I mention this to, including educators and writers, have not clue about the suit. When they did the Roots reboot recently Haley's reputation was completely intact. Again we are so needy, for stories it does not really matter whether Haley made things up or not. @Chevdove, who should check out the book Barracoon Zora Hurston interview a man who survived the middle passage. Like you ancestor he was kidnapped long after the transatlantic slave trade was outlawed.

@Pioneer1 every human on Earth came from Africa, including everyone in Asia, or the Asian peninsula. @Mel Hopkins from my quote about "marrying up" you take that to mean that I believe people are commodities? The statement was made partially in jest. But surely, you don't believe a Meghan would have any interest in marrying someone like me (assuming we were the same age) over someone in the British royal family. Still, I can't be moved to care very much about Mehgan--who i never heard of before the marriage news. I don't have any interest in the British royal family either. Putting the two together does not generate any more interest for me either...

It may make more sense, in most cases, for people to hide their identity when online. People are held accountable for what they put in the web -- ofen without their knowledge. This is a problem that people are not taking seriously at all. @Pioneer1, you may be using an avatar but if you've visited any of the large social media site your identity is known. To truly hide one's identity takes a great deal of effort and as Cynique points out we reveal clues about who were are by the nature of what we say. I'm not convinced that people (non-trolls) who use avatars and fake names less honest than people who do. @Cynique (she is a novelist) did not initially reveal her identity, but after she did the nature of her posts did not change. From a personal perspective I would never have guessed her age, because Cynique is not what one envisions as the stereotypical little old lady. It revealed a bias I had and I'm learned you can't prejudge people. I don't anyone is the proverbial little old lady if you listen to them. @Thumper, fought to hide his identity -- never allowing me to take his photo (thought one is on the site now). Indeed people simply assumed I was Thumper. Because Thumper was so honest with his book reviews people either loved him or hated him. I know, because I bore the brunt of these emotions by people who thought I was Thumper or because I provided a platform for him. There was another poster on this site who used to post under different names. I knew this to be the case because that person(who I will not name), posted from the same IP address and the writing style was similar, so this was obvious -- but not always. One of the aliases was of a known journalist, who emailed me to say that someone was posting under her identity on the website. I deleted bogus account but allowed the original poster to continue to post, because others found their posts so interesting. Zane ran her own website discussing erotica for years and was a published author before anyone knew who she was. She posed on these forums back in the day. She introduced herself to me at a book convention and, as with Cynique, she was nothing like the women I'd imagined in my head. In many ways our imaginations are better than reality. Once you become a celebrity it is impossible to maintain your anonymity -- because people work so hard to figure out who you are. Bottom line, I don't really care if someone chooses to post under an alias. It has the benefit of; (1) preventing people from judging you based upon your age, gender, race, education, location, etc. This focuses them solely on what you write; and (2) it protects you from losing your job over some nonsense you may have posted.

@Pioneer1 There is more genetic diversity today in African than there is anywhere else on Earth. Genetically, it is more likely that you are more closely related to the people you call white than you would be to people in Africa who share your complexion. Anyone who believes Africans are "less evolved" than the people who left Africa is simply ignorant of the most basic concepts of genetics. There is zero evidence that anyone is Africa is descended from people who came from Asia. ------------------ The idea that there is a Mitochondrial Eve and Y-Chromosomal Adam is just remarkable to me -- single individuals that we are all related to. Now these folks wree not arried to each other and they were not the only ones on Earth, but we still treat each other like Cain and Abel. ------------------

The clip is compelling but nit exactly representative of the film -- but I still enjoyed the flick. I'll read the link later. As far as how they got to North America they sailed (or flew), as the Pyramids demonstrate those Brothers and SIsters were not as primitive as western culture would like you to believe. Brown African people were the first Homo Sapiens that is not in dispute. I'll check the article later. I'm going off the grid for a few days; camping in an area without cellular service to look at stars and commune with nature

Cynique, they died. What revisionist white researchers are saying that we did not come from Africa? Unfortunately today you don't have to look very hard to find information that contradicts information that is generally accepted by the scientific community; evolution is a hoax, the earth is flat,.. Extraterrestrial origination does have an appeal. Have you watched this film Prometheus? It has an interesting origin story for humanity:

“The Two Foot Shelf of Negro Literature“ Composed of books, selected with care and discrimination, with the idea of offsetting the silence of our educational system regarding twelve million American citizens. Add these volumes to your library. Reading them will increase your respect for the Negro race.” —Kathryn M. Johnson This list is almost 90 years old and is (you know what I'm gonna say) as relevant today as it was back then. Sad but true. Kathryn M. Johnson, who compiled the reading list wrote, The Dark Race in the Dawn: Proof of Black African Civilization in the America’s Before Columbus, which discusses the African presence in America long before Columbus. I was in grade school, a generation after the publication of this book (and the information was not new then), but I was still taught that Columbus discovered America?! I participated in a play on the lie. I would be an adult before learning that Columbus never even set foot in America. Why is the myth of columbus discovering america being perpetrated while knowledge of skilled African sailors hidden? Of course we know this is straight up racism and it adversely impacts Black people to this day.

Yeah the dates change. Presumably the newer information is more accurate. I've send date range for homo sapien sapien range from 200K to 300K years -- which is a big swing, but no one will ever have a precise date nore is one really needed. We can be fairly certain is has not been "millions of years." Sure there were hominids a million years ago, but these creatures would never be confused with being human. That said, I would still not be surprised if there were a race of people (of extraterrestrial origin or not) who were far more advanced that we are that lived and died out more than a million years ago. @Cynique, as you know all men are descended from Africans. However the Black people who arrived in the America's can separately. It is common knowledge, thought not taught in schools, that African traveled to the America's long before Columbus. Indeed the ship logs of european travelers who noted that they saw Black people here. It could have been in Columbus's logs (don't quote me on that). In any case, Ivan Van Sertima writes extensively on this.

to be clear, homo spaiens have only roamed the earth for the last 2 to 3 hundred thousand years.

This is an interesting conversation -- too deep for me to participate in, but interesting nonetheless.

The migrations of people across the planet is very interesting. Man. as the current evidence supports is that we left. Africa in two waves separated by tens of thousands of years. The first wave led to the evolutions of neanderthals (virtually all white people have neanderthals in there DNA). spaiens left later and populated the earth. One branch walked across the bering straits ultimately populating north and south america. We call these native people, but there is evidence that African arrived in both north and south american and even europe much earlier. People we would call Black may have predated what we call native americans by 10K years. There are several books on the site that speak to there evidence. In fact I justed added one today: The Dark Race in the Dawn: Proof of Black African Civilization in the America’s Before Columbus by Kathryn M. Johnson (I'm still collecting information on this book now) But there are others of the top of my head: Africa and the Discovery of America by Leo Wiener, Black Star: The African Presence In Early Europe by Runoko Rashidi, and anything by Ivan Van Sertima

@Kalexander2 Your post about Why do people try to hide who they really are? would be an interesting stand alone topic. Maybe I'll start one. As far as Umar being a utterly complete fraud (assuming a fake identity) I don't believe that. It is too easy to prove this. OK @Pioneer1 I can understand the desire to track the change of human sexuality over time. But what I find that you do is that you assume gay men are feminine. Some are and others are not. Sexual orientation is different than personality. There are some dudes you'd look at, using the western lense of masculinity, and swear they are gay but they are not...

Frances Lincoln Children’s Books publishes high quality picture books, multicultural books, poetry, picture books and information books. Their “Little People, Big Dreams” series is pretty cool.

I actually did see one post about the suppression of Black history in Europe, but I'll have to make time to read it. Pioneer, it looks like stuff you'd be interested in.

I worked for defense contractors for most of the 1980's, many of the people I worked with voted republican (I voted republican once). simply because people wanted to ensure the contracts kept rolling in. But I do believe that many people, most probably, have understandability lost faith in the political process. Much of the reason for this has to do with how we get information. The news (journalism) has been perverted. I can listen to two different radion station and get a completely different understanding of the different issues -- it is hard to know what is true...

If you say the homosexual population has almost tripled in a generation (btw, where did you get those percentages), why do YOU think this has happened?