Troy

No there there is no way can either position or even an unconceived (or unconcievable) position can be proven. I though it was an interesting thought experiment. At least that is the predetermined story I tell myself in my illusion of free will 😉

Sure you did. You called her views unorthodox. Why, because they did not fit the narrative you learned watching TV or conform to the white man's way of thinking? Then you stopped short of pulling a Del move by dropping that unsubstantiated rumor that Welsing married a white guy -- as if that mattered. You implied her ideas were stale and out because of step with the times because if the age if the video. You are obviously not a "devotee." Please, let's call a spade a spade. So what! Is that your criteria; The validation of white folks? Has oprah did any stories of people who are unapologetically pro Black? So watching TV broadens your horizons?! OK I'll leave that one alone. @Cynique you have of habit taking general statements I make about the behavior of a group and defending them by telling me what YOU do. Please stop taking my statements about a group and making them about you. It is clouding your judgement and you ability to understand my points. There is no single pure source of news. If one consumes news from a single source one is being misinformed at best and lied to at worse. Where do i get my news from? I get it form a wide variery of sources and platforms. Magazines, newspapers, TV (Though not traditional broadcast), and books. Look MOST people do not watch PBS like you and I. By the way I do watch 60 minutes. I have a subscription to CBS all access. Most people do not click through on links to articles on social media. So while you and i do this cynique most people do not. This is common knowledge to those in or who follow the industry. What most people do is read the snippets copy and pasted on the social media platform. The social media algorithm then decides what to out in your news feed based upon what will keep you most engaged. Then people simply read and engaged with the snippets the are put in front of them. When i used to read social media too often i found the opinions formed were not supported by the actual article; because no one had bothered to read it! Often links to the source articles weren't even provided and i had to run queires to find the articles. If course there is the very real problem of fake news, false equivalence, and senstantalism that is the hallmark of social media. Social media's goal was NEVER to inform. So no, social media is not a "news source" for me.

Oh Brother @Cynique I thought you knew me better than that. I've seen Davis numerous times have produced video of her myself. I saw Kathleen a few months ago. Oprah.... really? That is what you put up as a suitable alternative to Tony Brown's Journal? Oprah is fluff for the female masses. I've seen the show. has it changed from 20 years ago? How many Black men you know who regularly tune into Oprah? You easily desparage Welsing and elevate Oprah. I don't get it... Of course there are still people doing good programming. Rock Newman has a good program it is (was) a local program, but i get to see it because it is on Youtube. And it is not decades old. There is years worth of new content published on youtube everyday. Part of what i do is share good shows on this site. -- i even share oprah's stuff even though i dont personally care for it but i know others, like you, do The reality is most people get their news from social media. So we consume a diet of 45's tweets and Jessie Smollett updates I've probably exposed myself to a far greater variety of Black folk than most. Bubble... nah you are way off the mark there @Cynique but you keep watching TV and consuming a steady diet of social media. Social media and broadcast TV are two platforms I've chosen to stop consuming information from, because that is actually were filter bubbles are born.

Perhaps, but that is not the position I have taken and no one have said anything to convince me otherwise. No, the creation of the universe does not imply a creator. If you think that is what I'm saying then forget it because I'm not saying that. Yes humans have had an impact on climate change. That, like everything else, was set into motion almost 14 billion years ago. Just because everything that has or will happen can be known does not mean we are not active participants. We are little more than robots, a series of sophiticated but completely predictable chemical reactions. We just believe we have free will. We have no more free will than a tree or a guppy.

Sure it is Cynique. "my theory," (more accurately the idea im defending is not novel I'm sure) does not eliminate or negate blame. Did you enjoy the academy awards last night?

@Delano 38. I dunno @Delano? I never tried to count them. How many do you know? What difference does it make? I know the definition of the word. Again you think in extremes failing to see nausance in people and beliefs. The world is not so black and white neither is "porn. " You know at least one feminists who likes it how do YOU square that? Again, not all feminists are the same. I asked you the following question (which you characteristicly ignored) del, because it informs YOUR belief in what a feminist should believe. Del im not sure why the pasted these quotes; they make my earlier point. @Mel Hopkins I see all the people I described, as devils. But they are wildly successful. Success is simply the accomplishment of a goal. Why are the people i described not sucessful?

how do you know that's not something you're telling yourself?  @Cynique I guess we can go back and forth with this ad infinitum. For the 2nd time it IS something I'm telling myself. I don't know why my brain directed me to write this -- I acutally had no choice; this chain of events was set into motion at the moment the universe was created Just because something like free will feels like it is true and the stories we've created seem to make sense. Does not make it true. @Mel Hopkins (anybody) do you like the song. Have you ever heard it before?

It is something I'm telling myself and this could have been foreseen at the instant of the big bang.

Not all feminists are the same. Not sure why you are isolating the feminist who enjoys "porn" fron the others? Do you have something against porn @Delano or a woman who enjoys and climaxs from watching it?

True, the communicative power is music is quite fascinating. Even music in a foreign language can faithfully communicate a sentiment, though this is a more personal experience and not as easily shared as a song with lyrucs you can understand. The following song is one i really enjoy. Without looking up and translating the lyrics what emotions does the song conjure? Mel I always communicate from the heart. 😉 But i think you mean i resonate more with you when i relate a personal story. Is that true? People are moved by stories. Facts and figures don't mean a thing without a good story behind it. If no story exists to explain something we craft a story. Actually @Mel Hopkins I no clue what yiu question means was grasping fir straws trying to answer it after a couple of tries Im afraid i cant answer your question. Yes, that is the idea I'm exploring. There is no free will. Free will is yet another story we tell ourselves. Again this is what im saying nothing is randon there is a cause and effect to everthing. We can know the future outcomes of everthing.

I know plenty, so many I consider it a characteristic of success in this country. You realize those on wall street knew the mortgage backed securities they sold were crap and millions would be booted out of their homes right? Think of all the corporate leaders who pushed addictive pain killers fueling the opiod crisis. Are these successfull people "kind and sensitive." Look at the leader of this country. Look at the leader of Facebook. Look at the leaders of flint michigan. look at the leaders of Philip Morris who pushes cancer sticks in virtually every country on Earth -- literally causing more deaths than any other entity... Mel i could go on and on. Many successful people i know personally do unscrupulous things. It is not contradictory. indeed a feminist fights for the right for a woman to exert control over her own body and sexual expression. Of course better parents are more likely to properly rear children. But you don't have to be Dr. Benjamin Spock; children are amazingly resilient. If you can mange to feed, protect and love them they eventually find their way. Rites of passage are great on paper but the impact of them is greatly diminshed if the broader culture rejects everything the child is taught to earn the honor of becoming an adult.

Me too. The culture does not support programming like that. They feed us R. Kelly, Jessie Smollett, and Bill Cosby jail stories in between 45's tweets. We are a culture of selfie-taking mental midgets anxiously waiting for the next shiny thing social media puts in our "news" feed. Spike ain't getting a director award for Black kkklansman -- unless they trying to "Monique" him. What is with all the Ks in the title? The film itself was meh, perhaps because of the directing. Yeah read stories about Morehouse men fighting and winning the right to wear dresses. I guess Spelman can't take them in.. . The company I used to work for attracted Morehouse university's most gifted student the class valedictorian who happened to be a white boy (who did not wear a dress). Morehouse is not the same school Dr. King graduated from. Some would say that is a good thing. All I know is they are no longer graduating men like MLK.

You are probably right and that is because we are not properly raised (no father in the home) and the culture has a huge hand in this. This is probably true too, but again I think it men ourselves who feel this was as much if not more than women. And by strength and and power our both are praised and valued highly in our market driven culture. We judge each other on how much power and strength we wield. Also men can be kind and sensitive AND strong and powerful. Women, indeed no one, likes a weak powerless man. That should go without saying. Does it really need to be expressed? Now if a man demonstrates weakness in a siituation where he had the capacity to exhibit strength, a good woman should point it out -- not by emasculating him and calling him weak, but by helping him to use the strength he has with the goal of becoming stronger. Men and women should do this for each other.

ROTFLMBAO!

@Mel Hopkins I'm not sure what you are missing. There is no "reason" behind anything that happens. There is no omnipotent deity, collective consciousness, nothing putting people into our lives, putting us in situation or otherwise orchestrating our lives. Each and action from the formation of this planet 4.5 billion years ago, to the emergence of sentient life here, to the marriage of your parent, to your birth, and to you ultimately asking me to explain my statement again yesterday. Knowing the initial conditions the exchange we are having right now could have been determined 13.8 billion years ago when the universe, as we know it was formed. The computational power required to make these determinations would be mind-boggling complex, but mind-boggling is not impossible. Does that answer your question? Side Bar that does not support my argument: This morning I upset someone I care about, not intentionally, but sometimes the way I couch things can seem insensitive (as Del has described 😉). After speaking I went to work and asked Google to play some songs, in a manner that I never did before. Would you believe the first song that popped up perfectly explained what I was feeling and the sentiment I was trying to express. I could not believe it! I looked up the lyrics and the song actually did a better job. I texted the person the song's title and artist, and asked them to look it up. They did and they got it. When I heard the song I could not hep but think I heard that song for a reason 😮

Ha ha! Saul seems like a cool dude.

It is all good @Delano I heard an interview with Saul Williams on the radio yesterday. That dude always reminded me of you. Did you two ever cross paths?

@Cynique, Then why reply and take a dig at me on the way out? So I'm stuck in a "rut," unable to look around me? That statement is incredulous since you know my background and ongoing behavior. You did the same with Dr. Welsing... if that helps justify your disagreement with me on issue fine.

It requires no additional explaination: nothing happens for a "reason." Perhaps you can give an example of something that happens for some reason, and I'll show you a story an elaborate or creative one but a contrivance nonetheless. Thank you. It was a deliberately provacative statement that no one has poked any holes in 😉

@Delano my undies are unbunched 🙂 thanks for the kind words.

@Cynique Dr. Welsing died in 2016 you two were only a couple of years apart. She was as intune with the times as you feel you are. Why diminish her poistion? I'm sure Welsing had strong opinions about the film Precious too and I doubt they were favorable. You know i witnessed the birth of hiphop. Indeed i was part of it i own the first few rap albums. I saw kool herc at the disco fever. I saw flash dj in community centers. I know what rap music is. It is always easy to find exceptions that buck a trend. Just because oprah has a billion dollars and Obama was president does not mean Black people are not struggling financially for structural problems in our economy due to greed and racism So there are a few good shows, in your opinion, on the boob tube; that does not negate the fact that Black people often get the big white awards and acclaim for showcasing dysfuntional behavior as entertainment.

I think everything happen for no reason. All the reasons we come up with are just stories we tell ourselves. Different people will have a different story for the same event. The reasons we conjure are as unique as the individual. If they are religious then it is all in God's plan.

@Mel Hopkins I give you the exact same caution I give @Chevdove plus with the added bonus that a little knowledge can be dangerous. Mel not sure how you arrived at the conclusion you did based upon the information on the page you provided, but Nothing in quantum theory suggests you can walk through a wall. This is simply not true in the macro world. @Chevdove an xray machine is no more mysterious than your cell phone camera. But y'all go ahead and conflate xrays with quantum theory and "exotic" matter and theorize about people walking through walls to your heart's content. Who am I to stop you.

@Delano i don't know the specifics of your online experience. For the umpteenth time your statements regarding the way i moderate a forum that has been active for over 20 years reveals a lack of deep experience and frankly some balls -- how many forums have you run for 20+ years? I'll wait...

Hi Evelyn this is a banner; can you share the actual cover (front and back) or post a link to it? Why include photo of people t all? Since the subject has nothing to do with race, what does the images of people do for the book? Ignoring your race, which also does not have anything to do with the subject. I would probably over look a book covered with white folks -- but that is just me. Similarly, I'd image some white folks would avoid a book with nothing but Black people on them -- why take a chance on alienating anyone. If you really want to include people on the cover consider a more diverse group.