Troy

Well @Pioneer1 I admit my position is changing on this issue. I always viewed pro athletes as entertainers, you know people you provide amusement for others -- they have no agency besides what their owners provide. Colin exhibited a minor form of protest and he was summarily executed -- obviously the NFL colluded against him and was never punished, while Collins lost his livelihood. Seemingly there was nothing anyone could do about it. Today, it appears others, clearly risking their own careers given Colin's example, are "standing up," for themselves and Colin -- invoking their right to engage in a symbolic protest, however minor -- against the will of 45, the NFL owners, and many of the fans. This is can be a powerful thing. If this protest continues and builds momentum, the NFL and the general public, will have no choice but to yield to the protests -- they can't fire everybody. At some point the media will have to consider why they are kneeling -- forcing the public to reconcile the outrage decent people feel about police killing black people with reckless abandon. Our million-dollar-slaves will will gain some power and control in their role -- who knows where else that will lead. I honestly don't think the protest will grow to a point when it comes to a head, but you can always hope.

@Cynique, of course we are cool. We can disagree from time to and be cool. If you were 40 years younger and single, I absolutely would be sweating you for your number I have nothing but the highest regard for you. @Pioneer1 relative to where i grew up I absolutely live in Mayberry. I often leave my doors unlocked, and have left my garage door open all day long without being cleaned out. Now I don't leave my garage door open deliberately -- sometimes I just forget, but opportunistic crime just does not seem to occur here. I can leave my laptop on a table in the B&N go upstairs to the men's room and the laptop will still be there -- try that in NYC. These may sound like trivial examples, but I point them out because coming from a city like New York you always have to have your guard up which creates a constant of stress that you don't realize you have until you don't have it anymore.

I agree white supremacy permeates the very fabric of this country, but I would stop shot of say the entire nation is a charlottesville... you know what, nevermind. I take that back; this nation did elect 45.

Man the unbridled pursuit of money corrupts everything, and it is the way our system is designed to function, so it is fatally flawed. We would have to create our own entities funding them is the challenge however... [subscribe to Ebony]

What is there to think about @Pioneer1 Bumpy was a gangster? But he, under the right conditions could been anything he wanted to be. He is a product of a white racist environment. Fortunately the condition that created him have been greatly reduced.

You seem to be conflating Pioneer's position with my own.. In any event I was not indignant or resentful. In fact, I rather enjoyed our exchange and laughed when I read your description of me as the a self appointed "Paragon of virtue." (did I find it funny because it has a grain of truth? ) People are simply not the same everywhere. There are places where no alcohol is sold on Sunday and places where prostitution is legal. I would not live somewhere where I could not buy a cold one on a sunday afternoon. People choose communities that reflect their values. Some people love living in NYC, I do not. It is noisy, filthy, crowded, and expensive. Others find it filled with life, diversity, sophistication, and swagger. In the area I live in now, filled with gated communities and chain stores, has it issues too, but the trade offs are worth it at this stage of my life. I don't have to step over the homeless people as I got about my daily business or walk with my head down so I dont step in dog do-do. The likelihood of my being a victim of a crime is virtually nil. Some behavior I would regularly witness in NYC simply not exhibited here. No once have I heard the word nigger uttered in public, not have a seen a mother curse a child out at them them that they are a piece of shit just like their dad. I have however witness bible study and prayer groups meet in Starbucks and the B&N I've lived in at least 20 places for a year or more and every community is different, and this is largely because of the people. @Pioneer1 I don't think I have ever met a man that only wanted to be with one woman their entire life. But I was born and raised in NYC

You could have started and stopped right there @richardmurray

Yes @Chevdove, I meet the author, Teresa Kemp. I shot, edited, and published the video. You may read "moor," about her here: https://aalbc.com/authors/author.php?author_name=Teresa+Kemp I just checked someone stole my slogan, readmoor.com is taken. There is nothing new under the sun.

@Chevdove, I really should not have used race I should have used species. The crux of my argument with Pioneer had to do with me asserting what the scientific community has discovered, a conclusively paid to rest after sequencing the human genome, that there is no scientific basis for race. An African can have more in common, genetically, with a European than another African. African, the birthplace of humanity is a large continent and has more genetic diversity than the rest of the earth combined Obviously racism exists -- indeed it is why I run this site -- but again racism has no basis in science. Of course facts and science will not convince racists to change their views. But over time this backward thinking will die out on its own. Saying that Americans have been the most oppressed for "thousands upon thousands of years" is a gross exaggeration don't you think? All the other species of man have died out. Another 4 billions years from now Earth will be an entirely place. If we survive, we will evolve into something other species -- perhaps something completely unrecognizable, but it is much more likely we'll just go the way of he Neanderthal and Denisovans.

@Cynique those statement do not support me be asserting myself as a paragon of virtue. Using your reasoning I could say the same you, but I won't because I don't believe that to be true. How is saying that morality is relative -- including your perspective -- setting myself as some "paragon of virtue?" Me stating the fact that I, understand your point but just disagree with it, cause for being accused of "Righteous indignation?" in you perspective. How does simple disagreement conjure "indignation?" I not expressing indignation, nor do I feel it. This is an emotion that you are perceiving for a reason I don't understand. Agan, this is fundamentally a statement that I disagree with. You can call my disagreement "righteous indignation" or say that I'm no propping myself up as a "paragon of virtue," but none of this will change my belief on this issue. Indeed hurling types of personal brabs at me just tells me you don't have a very strong argument to support your opinion. They take people, Black ones in particular, and through them onto jail for smoking Marijuana -- a natural plant. This sounds exactly like the actions of an "unnatural repressive" society to me. If you'd like to dispute this, I'm all eyes, but if you wanna call me more names, don't waste the key stokes...

Wait, what?! Quote a single thing @Cynique, that I wrote that would substantiate me setting myself up as the paragon of virtue... please. What I trying to point out to you is that the term moral is relative and by some standards your views would be seen as "puritanical."

Yes, yes @Mel Hopkins all of it is defined by, and impacts, the culture. It is a complex system of influences. However when people are influenced solely by money -- as publicly traded companies are, the tactics become more nefarious resulting in more negative outcomes than we would get from the influence of art. @Cynique I'm not saying that everything people are influenced to buy is bad for them. the ads I place for books aren't bad for people, in fact I'm motivated by helping people more than I am by money... if I were motivated more by money. AALBC would not exist. As far as Chicago's violence, it is a problem that would require more changes that people have the power to implement or enforce. I would start by making the possession of a fire arms even an air gun illegal. I would improve all of the social services from nursery school to senior citizens centers. I would. Improve the quality of housing, education, and health care. You know the basic shit middle class white people have access to that we dont because of the legacy of enslavement, Jim crow, and racism. Jeff Bezos could fund this by himself.

@Mel Hopkins Yes, that is it. It is not an either or proposition, and there are varying degrees of influence across a wide range of domains. However, all things considered I believe the influence of marketers, in our capitalist society, does us more harm than good. But again, that is because I believe we are more adversely influenced by their influence than you do. Death from cancers diabetes, hypertension, poor air quality, etc, are all the result of use behaving in ways, influenced by marketers that is self-destructive. We can't even get guns out of the hands of crazy folks you'll shoot up a church or school because of the gun culture that has been manufactured .

Interesting article. Seems the great flood washed way a great many things. The flood story permeates ancient culture across the globe.

@Cynique I understand your point I just disagree with it. It is clear to be that your worldview is one shared by folks living in or near big cities. I'm sure despite everything I've written that I'll never convince you that there are large swaths of this country that don't agree with abortion, out of wedlock birth, homosexuality, consumption of alcohol, and all the other practices you city slickers seem to enjoy (think Nation of Islam -- but for the rest of America). No, I was not familiar with the universal law called the "the age of consent." I presume this means that I as a 56 year old man can have sex with a 17 as long is I can convince her to agree to do it -- which I assure you would not be very difficult. In your book of morality is that cool with you? I'm asking because my next question would be how about if she were 15? At some point you'd draw a line and and I'd give you an examples of people who have crossed that line, and contrast it with your own "puritanical" values. I do not think you are as "liberal" as you are trying to make yourself appear to be Cynique -- but that is a good thing. Again we all judge and for good reason.

Yes @Mel Hopkins I too am under the influence -- we are all, some to a greater degree than others. Your last post Mel tells me you give marketers too little credit. You are telling me that you smoked to keep your weight down -- despite knowing how lethal cigarettes are?! Why not simply consume fewer calories, or take the stairs, or park further away from the mall entrance? It seems to me that you and Cynique will bend over backwards to justify the destructive behavior dictated by marketers... I know you are familiar with the concept of creating a market -- manufacturing demand for a product when one did not previously exist -- even it if consumption of the product is destructive. Cigarettes are a good example. Crack is another. I agree there is always some perceived value by the buyer but that perspective may be artificial, as created by the marketer. Part of the skill of a good pulling off a great con is never letting the mark know he has been had. All of the largest corporations are brilliant at this -- it is variation of having a big gun and being willing to use it. Cigarette manufacturers are making more money today than ever before. I'd argue they should not be allowed to sell these lethal products, but I'm sure y'all will conjure up some justification for allowing them to continue as more people die...

@Cynique, I guess the basis of our disagreement is your statement: "People are not as naive about this as you seem to think. They just don't care. They want enjoyment out of life..." I know people are naive and ignorant about how thoroughly manipulated they are today. They can't care because they do not know. Obviously, we want to enjoy our lives and many of those who are aware are the ones capitalizing from the manipulation -- the rest of us are simply helpless. At the end of the day, if you are ignorant of the harmful manipulation or knowledgeable about it but powerless do anything; it makes little difference as the results are they same. Actually people who know what is happening are probably under additional stress because of the cognitive dissonance. Today I image all but most ignorant (or stupid) smokers in America know cigarettes are unhealthy. However they probably don't know just how aggressively they were targeted by marketers with a highly addictive product known to be lethal. Far more people will die in Chicago today from cigarette related causes than from gun violence. This is not widely known. I read the book Subliminal Seduction in high school, you probably read it too because it was popular. It explained how the media uses sex and violence to manipulate human behavior, citing specific examples from Playboy, Vogue, and Cosmopolitan magazines -- nothing has changed except these guy are SO MUCH BETTER at it, because they have machine learning, AI, and much more data at their disposal. They also have our ignorance on their side. Admittedly I'm closer to the subject because what I do with AALBC, so I understand if others view the subject differently.

@Cynique So now we are talking about the entire western world. Bottom line Cynique you and I know every well that if your daughters all showed up unable to identify the father of your grandchildren, because they were sleeping with a bunch of different dudes you would not be pleased -- and for good reason, because well should make judgements. If we don't make judgment our moral code has not meaning -- it has to be enforced. Cynique define "adult." Is it based upon age, say 21 or 18? Can and adult be based upon sexual maturity at say 13? This is an important issue because when you say "consenting adult" I'm not sure what you mean by that. Also the "western world" only makes of a small percentage of the planet's population -- and most of those people don't subscribe to the values you or I might hold so dear. Our attitudes dominant because, as the four-eyed gangsta say, America has big guns are we are willing to use them.

The video of the woman who spoke about giants is below. Unfortunately I did not capture our conversation about African Giants, she spoke about people being 20 feet tall. Sure the range of normal human height is quite large. Some of the more exaggerated height man has shown are hormonal (or something of the sort) problems that are often debilitating and those with that defect don't live very long. In other words it is abnormal. Still the presence of a race of human you were 15 taller or more that people talk about, seems more like myth than reality. But hey the Earth is very, very old and if it is proven to be true I would not be surprised. I do believe that African men knew a lot more thousands of years ago they we are taught -- as if human civilization began with the European. It is now commonly known today that when the European was in their Dark Ages, African civilization with far superior technology was already thousands of years old...

@Chevdove, in another post you mentioned other races of humans like the Denisovans. They were a difference race of people. But the so called white man and Black man are the same race, Sapiens -- despite the claims of racists. That is basically it.

@Chevdove you can run a search on our very protracted and contentious conversations on "race." But, in a nutshell, despite all of the science to the contrary @Pioneer1 believes that there are multiple human races based upon the different phenotypes you are familiar with. Like Michelle Alexander, I exhibited a prodigious level of restraint and patience despite a deluge of ignorance and an onslaught of misinformation. Like the more famous Michelle said, when Pioneer goes low you go high

@Cynique, So you would look sideways at a women who could not identify the father when it is done naturally, but f they have the money to go to a clinic an select from some anonymous donor that is AOK huh? I agree with your last statement, and if there are enough dissenters to the prevailing moral standards, in a reasonable society, to standards are subject to change. But then we have a slippery slope; at some point a line has to be drawn and still people will cross it. There are always those "bold" souls who will push any boundary created. There is a reason fundamentalists are so resistant to change and why the elimination of all rules leads to chaos. The trick is to find some imperfect middle ground. Asian people still use skin color against each other whether is is china, japan or india. Colorism is present in all of those cultures @Mel Hopkins

@Chevdove, please, share the sources of you evidence. I'll post the video of the women I spoke to about the Giants maybe she said something in it that might be useful.

@Cynique, allow me to clarify; I say that all people, but Black women in particular, are manipulated by slick marketers into behavior (including dress) that not only does not serve them but does them harm. Sure, self lower self esteem is often a consequence but worsened health is another. Cynique you know cigarettes are still heavily marketed in poor communities? Have you have noticed how much bigger Black women are today? Of course women have learned to accept the new normal, but being obese is not healthy, despite the hype to the contrary. No one reasonable will argue that high heals, even the 4" ones are healthy foot wear and you are the only one I've ever heard justify skin lightening cream (I guess you find what Michael Jackson did to himself perfectly normal). White men are affected too -- spending tons of money on remedies for baldness, pills to correct their limp penises, and lining up to pay a couple hundred dollars a ticket to see some Black athletes run with a ball down a field. Cynique it is all related. Please stop saying that I'm trying to tell women how to dress. More than anything I want women (indeed all of us) to be free of the manipulation, free of being made to consume things were not only don't need but hurt us. Thanks for the definition @Chevdove where did you grow up?

Hey @Mel Hopkins, I don't think I generalize across all people based upon my own experience. Can you give me an example, in this or any conversation, where I've lumped everyone into a group based upon my own experience? I do not believe all people are equally influenced. But to suggest that we all (or most of us) are exercising our own agency when all the data and evidence suggests otherwise is to ignoring the obvious. This is not based my personal experience. Why do you think Cambridge Analytica was put out of business? Why are hundred of billions spent on marketing? Why are people running around yelling "Dilly-dilly?" Why do you know the ingredients to a Big Mac? Why are millions of people slavishly tied to their mobile devices? Why did people vote for 45? Is this evidence our control or being controlled?