Troy

Del I'm going to reboot this conversation and pick up where you left off in a

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You know I started watching a screener of Skip Gates new series The African Americans: Many Rivers to Cross which will broadcast on PBS starting on the 22. It is interesting enough and I'd recommend it. After watched the 1st two parts of a six part series we decided to take a break and watch Booker's Place: A Mississippi Story this was a really fascinating movie! Booker's place made Gates program seem sanitized, almost boring, by comparison There are a few segments of the film which are just priceless. (1) was Booker describing how her felt about being a waiter (the version is the actual film is better than what is shown in the trailer), and (2), perhaps even more moving was when an a "redneck", anxious to show how well he treated his share croppers, had those share croppers interviewed and (3) member's of the Citizens Council (apparently a front organization fore the Klan) explained how happy the Black people in Greenwood MS where and how it was better to keep the students separated to spare them from being discouraged by being in the same classroom with white children. Hearing the people talk was just fascinating! As an Amazon prime member you can watch the film for free.

Yeah and the campus (Morehouse, Spelman and Clark) are essentially fenced off from the community which indeed is pretty depressed. Spelman is completely fenced off. Rather than serving as in inspiration to the surrounding community it is more like an inaccessible ivory tower. You get the same conflict with college students and "townies" almost any where you go. I wonder if white students experience the same thing. Somehow I doubt it, at least not to the same extent that Black students do.

Interesting scene it could be very easily played out today. I went to a reading of writers from the Dominican Republic this week. It was interesting how the Blacks from of the Dominican Republic lamented being marginalized because they were.. clearly of African descent -- "cocolos". But when the come here they don't always self identify themselves Black ala Sammy Sosa or Zoe Saldana. Who can blame them. Samuel L Jackson's character is right. It does not matter what you think of yourself if the society at large views you differently But Fishburnes character is right too in that you can't allow yourself to be viewed the way society wants to view you. The question becomes how do you deal with the discrepancy between who your are and how society views you? Most people, it seems to me, fall into the Samuel L. Jackson camp and assume the role society bestows upon them. It is Jherry curl juice one day and saggin' pants the next. More and more kids on college campus have more in common with Sam's character than Larry's.

OK, one thing at a time to answer your question: Is Set theory a subset of logic? Del I'm not sure what you are trying to get at or where this question came from, so I reviewed this conversation. you wrote: You [Troy] and the KKK don't share mu [sic] beliefs about being non judging. So in that dense [sic] you are closer in your world views about others. Than either of you are with me. In reaction I wrote: "Del you should review you [sic] course work in set theory. If I and the KKK do not share your beliefs; you can not then conclude that I and KKK share anything in common. All three sets, you, me and the KKK, could still share nothing in common." This is where set theory was introduced. After reviewing what I wrote I stand by the statement. I will take it a step further; your statement about me and the KKK was indeed illogical. Is this the actual basis of your repeated question? "What I www [sic] talking about was logic, I think set theory and Venn diagrams are a subset of logic." "I'll go back and check, but I asked you the following question. Isn't set theory a subset of logic." "I will ask you a question again is set theory a subset of Logic?" Why are you demanding an answer to a question to something I did not assert and that you can easily look up yourself? If it is a rhetorical question you could simply supply the answer and advance your point (whatever it may be) instead of beating me over the head with it. Sheesh Del went back to May to dig something a factually inaccurate statement of mine?! I could look up your flawed argument against disproving the Nyquist theorem as it relates to reproducing frequencies in the audio range too. But it would not occur to me to use that old mistake in this argument, for you've provided enough material right here... -------------------------------- At the end of the day the simple point remains: I believe there are some things that considered wrong by so many people, across cultures and time, that they could be considered universally wrong. Just because people engage in a behavior that does not mean that even they believe it is right. Even a sociopath knows killing an innocent person is wrong. Finally we as a society have to determine what is right or wrong behavior, for ourselves and others, and attempt to enforce those beliefs. These beliefs and values will change from culture to culture and from time to time and that is fine, normal, for we learn new things all the time. It seems to me Del that you are caught up in the "judging" aspect and believe in moral relativism where no one is right or wrong and all behavior should be tolerated. A position that might be cool philosophically but one that I disagree with in real world practice quite strongly.

Del you continue to draw conclusions that do not follow logically from either what I actually wrote or you have misinterpreted from what I've written. You have accused me of believing that my opinions are fact the assuming that I stop thinking at that point. Again this does not follow from my behavior or writings; why would I bother running a discussion forum, for the better part of 20 years, if I was not interested in thinking about ideas? I have no idea what set theory and the embodied mind theory have in connection with each other or why you are trying to connect the two. I have simply not had time to investigate embodied mind theory sufficiently to have an opinion about it. Which is why I have not commented on the subject yet. "I systematically explained why your conclusion was wrong" If you can tell me what conclusion of mine you proved wrong that would help. Honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about. Del, unless the suicide bomber were coerced or brainwashed, obviously they thought the behavior was right! I never inquired about their opinion of their behavior. I asked you YOUR opinion of their behavior, an opinion you refuse to provide for some reason unknown to me. "In my opinion you are fitting the world to your beliefs..." What?! I think you have that one backwards. If anything I try to make my beliefs fit the world. It might be easier if you rebooted this conversation, stick to a single idea, and stop projecting, what you must apparently believe onto others (at least me).

That is quite a tribute Cynique -- thank you so much! It is one of the reasons I don't mind struggling doing what I do rather than living more comfortably working for a corporation doing something has absolutely no value to myself or my community. But if I had not worked for a corporation I would never would have had the resources to do what I do -- or to be able to make the distinction in personal satisfaction. Also, I save information like this here, not so much because I think folks want to read the gory details about maintaining AALBC.com, but because it serves as a historical archive. In the future, I'm going to begin to share information about Black books called 15 years ago today and highlight event or miles stones from the website here on the site.

It seemed extreme, but he actually said it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNTuIxLXAo8 It does not sound as extreme when you hear the statement in context. At the end of the day everyone in the US should have healthcare, a college education and an affordable place to live. The country is far to wealthy for this not to be the case.

Pioneer do you know MANY people I don't recall the number OD accidentally on Tylenol and die. I think laws should protect people from themselves as well. I just don't know how we actually do this. The government has failed miserably in preventing people from killing themselves with an over the counter medication. Also one can die from just doubling the recommended dose!

It is the same in NYC. Black people do not have meaningful jobs in corporations but virtually all the workers working for transit are Black. I'd be willing to bet the majority who work for the Post Office are Black as well. The reason you like PBS is the reason I like YouTube. I have discovered so many talks by Black intellectuals -- it is a gold mine of information.

"They don't trust Black people as much as Black people trust them." Yeah I believe this to be true Pioneer. Also if I did happen to get out alive with the photos. I, like most other Black folks, would be able to get the book published. Even if the book was published, I doubt Black people would buy it in significant numbers. If I had the money I would do it myself. Dude, white people have no problem putting low class white folks on TV -- if there is money on it -- have you seen any "reality" TV? Black people, in America, are history... going the way of the so called native American.

Del communicating with you would be much easier if you did two things; (1) answer questions when posed; and (2) Be direct. What I mean by direct is rather than telling me what is not useful tell me what is useful.

Yes it was a compliment and a dig too. You do have a lot of photos of yourself man. I hear you on the hours man 16 hours a day is not unusual for me. In fact the last couple of months I've been putting in 12 to 16 hours regularly every day, a day off here and there, but pretty much grindin' all day. I don't go around the clock -- I can't really focus without rest. I use to put in 2 to 3 hours of time on social media. I found; (1) I don't enjoy it very much (2) the investment is time was taking away from my actual life. You see I still have to do everything I always did with AALBC.com before before the rise of social media -- heck even more. So the social media time expenditure was not worth the trade off to me. I also have a philosophical aversion to social media as well. You see they are making money off everyone who participates with out sharing in the wealth. While at the same time making it even more difficult for indie sites to survive, due to the competition. So I've opted out -- using social media solely to promote AALBC.com, and most of the time I can do that remotely without even opening up Facebook. Yeah it has been a long time since we met, seems like it was prior to 2003 -- but you would know better.

If anyone is interested in any of these promotions just email me at troy@aalbc.com, call my office at 347-692-2522 for follow the link provided. _____________________________ (1) Put Your Book Cover AALBC.com's homepage and our Books Section Main Page, for 31 days, for just $59. This is a terrific value and just in time for the holiday season. This rate is only available until all book slots are sold out (we have 4 3 slots available now). Email us at troy@aalbc.com or call 347-692-2522 to launch your campaign today. (2) Sponsor an AALBC.com eNewsletter Your photo and information about you and your work (or business) appears at the very top of the AALBC.com eNewsletter. This is the only promotional opportunity in the eNewsletter. The eNewsletter Sponsorship, which is still available for November (pub date prior to November 20th), is only $150. If you take a look at my last two newsletters you will get a good sense of what how it can be used to promote your work as a sponsor: http://aalbc.com/news10092013.html and (3) Let readers know who you are by becoming "An Author You Should Know" Your photo, a brief description and link to anywhere you like, appears on several popular AALBC.com pages, including the top of our homepage, our Blog, and our author pages. The price is only $79 for the 1st two months, then $59 for each subsequent month.

I actually revised the site a couple of weeks ago to display differently for visitors who want to print an AALBC.com page (I really should have done this a long time ago) and for visitors with very narrow screens (some mobile devices or older monitors). Looking and the Wil Haygood page above we have three different flavors of the website Normal Display This is what the vast majority of visitors to the page will see when the visit. Printed Version Now when a visitor prints the page unnecessary things for the printed page, like the navigation menus, search box, advertisements, videos are removed. The URL for links are revealed as an additional convenience. Display for Narrow Screens (mostly handheld devices) The menu is converted into a list of links and all the images and video are re-sized to fit into the screen. The text also wraps to fit the available screen width. The ads are removed as well in this format. Interestingly, Apple devices handle the resizing automatically (as in the screen shot from the earlier post). This is just one of several behind the scenes updates I made to AALBC.com recently. The next set of changes will be to completely redesign all of the main pages and the homepage. I have not decided exactly what I will do but it will be more visual lest text dense with much of the content currently on the homepage being puished down to the main category pages authors, books, resources, events, etc... Here is what AALBC.com looked like in 1997 I started AALBC.com 16 years ago to the day. There have been countless changes to the design and features of this website over the years. Click here if you want to see more changes to AALBC.com over the last 16 years.

I read the preview and it peaked my interested I may purchase a copy when I have a little more time -- it looks like a very quick read.

You did not ask me Pioneer but in my short 50+ years in my environment girls are absolutely heavier. Again not data -- just observations. If also appears the is a direct correlations between weight and class. Wealthier children are not as fat as poorer children. Again my unscientific observations. I can't speak to the other physical attributes that you mentioned. It does seem that girls are coming out more frequently and at an earlier age. I say this because I often see high school aged homosexual girls, or at least presenting as such. I did not notice this at the same frequency 30/40 years ago for high school girls.

Del you are talking in absolutes I never implied any such thing. Of course what is accepted as "right" varies from place to place, time to time, and even within the same person from one minute to the next. But there are something that would most likely be perceived by 99% of all Earthlings as wrong -- essentially universal. There may not be many things but their are some. Indeed there should be some as we share enough in common as humans for this to be true. Del you are raising children. Part of raising children includes educating them, instilling values, teaching them right from wrong, even providing spiritual guidance. Do you to let them run amok, allowing them to do anything they want at any time without any form of guidance? I submit to you that you can not raise children who can successfully engage in society unless to teach them the difference between what is right and wrong in the context of the culture in which they live. Part of the reason our culture is slipping is because our standards of behavior have slipped. Too much is acceptable. I'm not saying everyone should, or can live, a pristine life, but very little of what we do is frowned upon. No one wants to "judge". How can we? We have no standards we are willing to enforce.

Pioneer this is the book I wanted to do. The only difference is that I did not want people posing... As nice as this book is, I can't help but see the world through the lens of someone who has been on the business end of the racism stick for a few hundreds years. Disclaimer aside. I took the snapshot above, this evening, during a signing of this book in New York City. I decided to go at the very last minute The signing was in midtown on 57th street and I knew I would be able to park on the street for free. The book store, where the signing was held, is simply magnificent. One of the nicest stores I've ever set foot in. It is an independent store in a physical space that is worth at least several million dollars. The inventory was impressive. It really felt like I was in a bookstore for the first time! Honestly I'm disappointed I had not previously visited the store and it is just 2.5 miles from where I live literally walking distance, but it may as well be on Mars. The photographer is a white man. The signing was in this store, in a white neighborhood, the vast majority of the patrons were white. I saw maybe 4 other Brothers (no sisters, one worked as a guard at the store). There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, of course. For some reason I expected to see a bunch of Blacks folks "up in there". I expected to maybe even run into Herb Boyd (writer for New York's Amsterdam News) who wrote the foreword . I expected the event to feel...well.. familiar. Instead it felt more like I was peeking in on an event where a group of people were recognizing the field research of one of their more intrepid photographers -- one who somehow was able to capture the beauty in the people of Harlem. Reminiscent of Jane Critchlow's Some of My Best Friends: A White Woman’s Journey into Racial Profiling which yielded this comment: She's "humanizing" creatures descended directly from Homo Erectus that aren't even within the same taxonomy as modern humanoids. She probably won't get it, even with a broken orbital bone and the usual ape-rape, just another idiotic female with warped or attenuated survival instincts that will end up in pieces in a dumpster somewhere. Curious George and Jane GOODALL Now the readers in this store did not appear to be the like the racist who left that comment on my website, but I wonder if they see the book any differently? Are they fascinated that the people of Harlem are able to manifest some form of humanity? Is Stein somehow illustrating that Harlemnites may even share some of the same characteristics they do? Yeah I know it is my racist lens distorting reality, right? But I also know that Black folks don't have very many book stores left. Many of the ones that remain are struggling. None (that I've been to) come close to being as nice as this store. I always thought about all the photographers I know (maybe even myself), who could pull together photos good enough to rival this book but will never get a chance. Even f they did would they be able to sign in the same store? Maybe I'm just tried of fighting... If I went to some trailer park in rural Mississippi, took a bunch nice of photos of poor white folks, created a beautiful coffee table book, then hosted a reception where scores of copies were sold to upper-middle class Black folks who asked questions, while sipping on wine, about my adventures; I wonder what a white man from that rural Mississippi community would think if he witnessed that event?

Harlem Street Portraits by Harvey Stein A nice big volume of people.

Yeah I saw the broadcast on Bill's TV show. I could not get past all that Brother's hair -- I could not help thinking about all the things I could not easily do with all that hair and calculating the time, effort and expense to maintain that mane. But the ladies probably love it. Anywho, marijuana is essentially decriminalized now. If they arrested every one who did an illegal drug there would not be that many people left on the streets.-- shoot imagine if they locked up all the job applicants who failed a drug screening. Currently the state of Colorado has legalized marijuana -- effectively breaking federal law. It will be interesting to see how that works out.

Pioneer, I would go as far as to say that Black people don't support each other in much of anything that really matters. I have no data to support this, just my own experience and observations. But if you look at the our HBCU's you'd quickly see why I have this opinion. We won't even support an independent bookstore for Christ's sake. I do believe that we HAVE to continue to explain to people why it is so important for Black people to support other Black people -- especially those who relate our history and our stories. Interestingly, many people, even very professionals ones, don't really appreciate why it is important, unless you break it down. At the end of the day, supporting Blacks in academia, or anywhere else requires sacrifice. Sacrifice is hard, but where we are headed will be much harder...

"Yeah, we know you have a college degree and no criminal record, fuck you anyway..." That just about sums it up Pioneer. A manager (older White guy) effectively had told me the same thing using more professional language. It did not bother me too much because I already knew how we were perceived collectively. The manager was not unique. What surprised me however was that he actually articulated the sentiment. The guy had less education than I did and was probably under pressure seeing that his role was being outsourced... A few years later, after we both were no longer with the firm, he looked me up, and to his credit, apologized and said he was glad to see that I was going well. We are all part of the same system. I don't condemn the self destructive behavior of Black people solely on the individual any more than I blame the racist behavior of white folks solely on that individual. We all live in a jacked up system that reinforces both behaviors. Unfortunately it is usually the individual that is called to account, not the society that shared in the blame. Most people, it seems, don't really care enough to look beyond their own prejudices or tightly held beliefs to question anything. So it is quite easy to understand why a celebrity like Oprah and a politician like Obama rate so highly in terms of level of trust. It is the same reason a charismatic preacher can so easily separate so many people from their hard earned money. We all need help...

Del you should review you course work in set theory. If I and the KKK do not share your beliefs; you can not then conclude that I and KKK share anything in common. All three sets, you, me and the KKK, could still share nothing in common. Again the difference between you and I is that I'm willing to say the KKK is wrong, in their views about Black people. No I guess I did not understand your point about the law. Sure it was legal to treat people as property. I believe that law was WRONG too, I imagine you have no such opinion -- perfering to sit on the fence unwilling to commit to any view point as if all view points on the matter are somehow valid. It is not clear to me why you are unwilling to call a thing right or wrong, particularly when it is so obvious. It seems to me that you don't really believe anything is wrong. Further those that choose to say something is wrong, is taking a position of moral superiority of others. Would that be an accurate assessment?