Troy

Cynique, indeed there is some conjecture that people actual experience different realities. So seeing things different not surprising but expected

I'm glad I asked. writegirl it would never have occurred to me that it would not be obvious that the icons were not click-able. Now you know I've been on-line too long Here is a online tip: If you see icon -- especially the stupid icons assume they are click-able. If they are not, someone made a mistake.

Hickson, you are the only one who has posted here more than a few times that I've actually met too. I used to think you are Biotumelo were the same people. A couple of time Biotumelo posted all caps AND no spaces . But he admitted his space keys was not working. Poets often type all lower case perhaps for the opposite reason you type in all caps.

I agree with your Yamina. The title suggest the documentary will be more of an expose on the publishing industry and black authors. I hope so. more coverage is definitely needed. Speaking of street lit have you seen Behind the Book film:

Since we've been on ALL CAP posting, it occurred to me that my putting all my social media icons in my signature (icons at the end of all of my posts) may be a bit much or maybe even turning people off. What do you think? Have you ever clicked any? Why, or why not?

Hickson, I'm glad you took the "ALL CAPS" Hickson in stride. But I think Nah'Sun was busting your chops by saying you were getting hostile. Remember, all cap means SCREAMING. Of course now we know, in your case, it all caps does not mean screaming therein lies the joke. But in the case Nah'Sun was not joking -- the statement struck me as funny. Interesting how we've managed to completely digress from Milton's subject -- sorry Milton

No you can't argue with success Cynique. Hickson I think your success is the result of other factors; namely hard work, persistence, dedication and commitment. Brains and a business sense are key too. Your success is despite your using all caps here (or anywhere else). I believe you would attract even more folks if you used posted your messages in a conventional fashion. I read the entire message this time 'cause I wanted to understand your motivation perhaps get some insight on how the all caps thing is working out for you -- shoot I might have even started using all caps myself. Hickson this is the 2nd time you mentioned me ignoring your business proposal. I don't ignore anyone, deliberately. I may be slow to respond at times, but I eventually follow up. If I did not respond to you it is simply because I missed the email or did not recognize it as something that I needed to respond to. Just reply here with the info or mail it to me again at troy@aalbc.com. I'll look out for it.

I just posted my blog post featuring 12 married couples in which both partners are writers:http://aalbc.it/marriedauthors I think the list is pretty interesting. There are such a wide variety of folks featured. They all seen pretty tight with each other I've met a few of the couples and the ones I know personally, like Wade and Cheryl Hudson or Steven and Tananarive or Gwen and Willie Richardson are just really beautiful. I could have easily doubled the list. If I had time I would check to see if authors are married at a higher rate than the general population. If that is true it is probably because the characteristics that make you a good writer also make you a good spouse.

The following was lifted from Facebook. Delano Strachen The death of the independent book stores is the end of the independent writer. By extension is the end of independent thought. we can distill this as well. The death of the independents is the death of independence. The only place you may hear independent thinking is comedy. September 7 at 8:46am via mobile · Unlike· 2 Troy Johnson Del, I may use your argument; Death of the independent book store is death of independent thought. But in reality the closures of bookstores is more a reflection, rather than the cause, of the death of independent thought. I'll play around with the idea though... September 7 at 9:04am · Like· 1 Delano Strachen Who has the time, the interest or the focus. To a bookstore, maybe browse a bit. Buy a book or two and carry it around, It is more efficient to buy it online and read it electronically, September 7 at 9:07am via mobile · Like Troy Johnson When it comes to efficiency as it relates to on-line purchasing of books I'm probably one of the most knowledgeable people about this subject on planet Earth (at least in the 99.999 percentile). In fact, I can argue against the propositio...See More September 7 at 9:20am · Like Delano Strachen Troy initially I was going to say I wasn't implying causality. I haven't given it a great deal of thought. Getting rid of independent bookstores has a greater negative effect than get rid of original thought. Revolutions need a physical space to grow even if it starts in one mind? September 7 at 9:35am via mobile · Like Troy Johnson Del I would argue that anything of consequence requires a physical space. I did not really start enjoying my work with AALBC.com until I started interacting with people -- bookstores are a large part of facilitating this. Besides who wants a world where everything is online. Del did you vote "Yes" or "No"? September 7 at 4:37pm · Like Delano Strachen Nkiru is closed? What about the Internet. September 7 at 10:24pm · Like Delano Strachen To me yes, to the general pop No. And since I am not a meglomaniac my answer would be No. September 7 at 10:26pm · Like Troy Johnson ‎Delano Nkiru closed years ago. I hate to use Nkiru as the poster child for closed bookstores but I think it is the only photo of a bookstore that I have that more than a few would recognize. Your response was regarding bookstores was int...See More Saturday at 7:56am · Like Delano Strachen Troy you have known me since about 92. I am not really on the normal curve statistically. I can recognize my preferences are not shared by the mainstream. I'll give you a few examples: I have commuted to work since 1987 on a bicycle. I use ...See More Saturday at 4:56pm via mobile · Unlike· 1 Delano Strachen I prefer to go to an independent store where a person says hello even though it cost a bit more. It used to be if the cashier didn't greet you the store would pay you $5. Not certain what they were trying to do but I didn't work. Who wants ...See More Saturday at 5:11pm via mobile · Like Troy Johnson I hear you Del. The burgeoning sameness is sad in a way. I can be in one of those out door malls in listening to music on the radio and not even know what city I'm in. Facebook's influences has even encroached on the physical worlds with...See More Sunday at 3:19pm · Like Delano Strachen Relevancy doesn't become moot it becomes irrelevant. The net is not a physical space, yet is changing how we communicate, think and relate to the outside world. I used to say I am not worried until pubs/bars disappear. I used to joke that ...See More Sunday at 4:34pm via mobile · Like Delano Strachen This a phrase in an EWF song can't buy love, You can't miss what you never had. I remember reading a story in New York Press. Which incidentally turned me on to Writers, Music, and Art. One of the writers take his cousin out sight seeing. T...See More Sunday at 4:47pm via mobile · Like Troy Johnson I would argue that the trend toward sameness is bad. Indeed it is hell. I would also argue the growth of social media isn't help much either -- if you have a chance read this related loosing related conversation, which could have been entitled, "Are Black Book Websites Relevant?" Let me know what you think: http://aalbc.it/lessdiscussion -- ideally there, not here :-) Yesterday at 5:49am · Like Delano Strachen Okay, but it is not sad to me, it is change. In fact it may be a positive change. I will check out the website. Yesterday at 6:38am via mobile · Like Troy Johnson Del there have been some great thing (changes) made on the internet in the last 20 years. But there have been some bad ones too. Many of the bad changes are disguised as beneficial, like the con artist who makes you feel good as he is fle...See More Yesterday at 7:11am · Like Delano Strachen No your digression is that point. The internet was started as a way for the military to communicate. A friend asked the following question. "If it is the web who are the flies?" Well your quote is correct and more to the point. Yesterday at 7:38am via mobile · Like Troy Johnson ‎Delanol! There is hope some guy on twitter (@AnonymousOwn3r) is claiming responsibility to bringing down GoDaddy and ALL of the websites they host. I'm not sure if the guy is credible but all my GoDaddy hosted websites are down, email, e...See More 20 hours ago · Like Delano Strachen Troy that is a temporary fix. The multi national company is not the problem. The US said to some drug producing country. "You have to stop selling drugs." Reply, "You have to stop buying." I used to read Tarot, in a Black owned cafe. Caf...See More 19 hours ago via mobile · Like Troy Johnson Yeah, you are probably right... 19 hours ago · Like Delano Strachen We are being sold product as community. We are so alienated that it works. 19 hours ago via mobile · Like Delano Strachen You sound a bit sad and there is neither reason nor point. I had a friend in the late 90's who was an illegal alien. I think at one point a about 1/4 of my crew were illegal and most were foreign. We used to hang out and go to parties. He s...See More 18 hours ago via mobile · Like Delano Strachen Hey Troy, I just remember I met this guy in Brixton (near Electric Ave), who said that he had the only(Used) Black Bookstore. His first name was Robert but again that was late 90's. 18 hours ago via mobile · Like Troy Johnson I assume Roberts bookstore was in NY City. Off the top of my head I'm not familiar with it. I'm not sad I just cynical and not very optimistic regarding a reversal of the current trends anytime soon unless something completely disruptive...See More 16 hours ago · Like Delano Strachen Don't be cynical just tend your garden. I clicked on the link I didn't see the thread. People have decided books aren't important. Not all just most. Product are always selling a feeling not the product. 12 hours ago · Like Delano Strachen When is the last time you saw advertising that said, Cereal eat it is food. Or car put gas in and get there. No this isn't new. But now Advertisers are using neuroscience, we are no longer in Kansas. 12 hours ago · Like Delano Strachen BThe Bookstore was in Brixton in England(London?) 12 hours ago · Like Troy Johnson I did visit a bookstore in Brixton, but that was probably 10 years ago it was a relatively small cluttered store (could it be the same place)? We never were in Kansas. I read book over 30 years ago talking about subliminal messages in adv...See More 5 hours ago · Like Helene Tomlinson absolutely relevant...what's the argument...that they wouldn't be? 5 hours ago · Like Helene Tomlinson sort of related but a little different..technology is relevant and a part of our modern lifestyles..has also contributed to increased obesity in our young people i,e, video games and the like and a decline in certain social/critical thinkin...See More 5 hours ago · Like Troy Johnson ‎Helene even though I plan to argue for the relevancy of bookstores, I could easily argue the other side and I'll do so to address your statement. There has been a dramatic decline in the number of Black owned bookstores in the last deca...See More 5 hours ago · Like Helene Tomlinson ‎..Troy Johnson..I agree...I think costs...real estate, over head are very stifling and can cut into any profits...on a less serious note..look at Black hair and beauty market..at one time it was just a niche market..we supported our Black ...See More 5 hours ago · Like· 1 Helene Tomlinson ‎..my last comment here ..then signing off...I was just listening to Tom Joyner ..and he was recapping his show's coverage of the 911 attacks..and someone made a comment..Black radio at its best,,that's what we do..and that is the role of i...See More 4 hours ago · Like· 1 Troy Johnson ‎Helene I live in Harlem and it is beyond absurd that we own so few of the Black hair care product stores, and that there is only one Black owned independent bookstore in Harlem, Sister's Uptown: http://aalbc.it/sistersuptown (actually ther...See More 4 hours ago · Like· 1 Ron Kavanaugh Helene, we can blame many things, including retail stores expenses: rent and other costs, but in the end bookstores are closing because of lack of demand. If a community cannot keep a business open it means that business is no longer releva...See More 3 hours ago · Like Muse Manning bookstores, as well as printed books, owe more 2 nostalgia than functionality. the need 4 both is attached 2 the previous generation. i too miss chilling in borders, the african-american sections i knew i could make a beeline for @ every st...See More 3 hours ago · Like Troy Johnson ‎@Muse What is the alternative for getting Black books -- the web? Man the web has seen better days and is in decline too. eBooks from Amazon? People are just overwhelmed there are a bazillion authors, most mediocre at best and readers h...See More 3 hours ago · Edited · Like Muse Manning ok then. just gotta wait it out & see. the writing's already on the wall. LoL 3 hours ago · Like Troy Johnson ‎Ron "Why are Black People Marginalizing Themselves" where do I start. Lets just stick with books for now :-) 3 hours ago · Like Muse Manning here's a thought, if brick & mortar bookstores r such viable business models, why not open the AALBC black bookstore? (o; 3 hours ago · Like Ron Kavanaugh I think some stores are viable because of location and technology adoption. I'd argue most people make purchasing decisions based on word-of-mouth recommendation, further marginalizing the need for "hand-selling." But the bookstore viability model isn't the issue. If every bookstore practiced the best business practices it still wouldn't address the effect of ebooks and Amazon's ease of access. 3 hours ago · Edited · Like Delano Strachen Physical bookstores are irrelevant, Black Bookstores doubly so. My mother used to say the liquor store and the funeral parlor do good business. about an hour ago via mobile · Like Ron Kavanaugh we drink and die for sure about an hour ago · Like Delano Strachen I think it was Sonia Sanchez who said at her book signing. I make it a point to include small bookstores, since they have been the incubators of new writers. Troy are you saying that online bookstores have the same overhead. Maintaining a server cost as much as maintaining a property? about an hour ago via mobile · Like Troy Johnson ‎Del it appears you are more cynical than I am with the liquor store statement :-) Ron ebook and book are to different things they are not direct substitutes and of course Amazon.com is not a physical bookstore -- they serve different pu...See More about an hour ago · Edited · Like Delano Strachen If you want to keep Bookstores open sell coffee in the day and alcohol at night. Or you could sell books and journals in a Brothel. Instead of the cigarette girl you could have the book boy. Have a tie-in with a product that can't be sold virtually. about an hour ago via mobile · Like Helene Tomlinson One other point..I think evolve or die is relevant here...CVS at one time was primarily a drug store. Sold over the counter meds. Filled prescriptions. Some household products. They were primarily a health care related entity. Now CVS sells...See More about an hour ago via mobile · Like Helene Tomlinson Up until about 5 years ago there was a brother who sold books.. Black books by Black authors..from a pushcart in downtown Boston.. he was very successful.. until his passing. about an hour ago via mobile · Like Ron Kavanaugh print or electronic, books are books. there's no difference. Businesses can co exist but if you want to grow you have to recognize that you may have to buy the store next to you --no way around it. but again, because i believe a book is a book, regardless of how it's purchased, I'm holding to the fact that the ease of book buying and lack of desire for peeps to leave their house and go purchase a book or attend booksigning is "gravy" on the bookstore demise. and there have always been a handful of black-book focused sites. to go from 25 to 10 reflects the success/failure rate of all business. Half fail in 2 years, 80% after 5 years. what is it about the book business that gives you confidence that we should buck the general business success rate? about an hour ago · Like Troy Johnson ‎Ron, herein lie our fundamental disagreements. (1) eBooks and not books. I use both in many variations. There are time when i prefer a physical book an times when I prefer an eBook. I doubt I'm alone in this regard. And I know their are people who just use physical books. (2) This "there can be only one" mentality is simply wrong. In France you saw more bookstores on a single street than there are in all of the Bronx. How do you explain that. Indeed there are many areas in the city where you can find several stores on the same type right next to each other. No two independent book stores are exactly the same. If I could open up a Black focused bookstore right next to McNally Jackson (one of NY largest independent booksellers) that is not a Black neighborhood I would -- there is a synergy being next to a similar -- not identical store. (3) The argument that business fail does not apply we are not talking about poorly run business. Besides the vast majority of those bookstores on the list I provided we open for more than 5 years. As well as all the closed bookstores in Harlem, save Nubian Heritage. 57 minutes ago · Like

See the first footage from Black & Write - A documentary on black authors and the publishing business. C. Mikki, Ifalade Ta'Shia Asanti, Bryan-Keyth Wilson, Kim Johnson, Sherrice Thomas, Pat Tucker, Nakia R. Laushaul, Renee Daniel Flagler, Kim Green, Dr. Jacqueline Green, Takeyah Young, Jamillah M. Warner, LaVonda Howard, Dr. Venise Berry, James Jackson, Faynetta Lavergne Burrle, Irma Bryant, Dr. Linda F. Beed, Kimberly A. Bibbs, Kim Johnson, Patricia Haley, Tia Ross, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9JmfGVEgco

Why does Hickson ignore one of the most basic rules of netiquette: do not type in all caps. There are many reason one should avoid this; It is simply harder to read It is perceived as SCREAMING It actually trigger many email spam filters It just turns some people off The question remains: Is typing in all caps effective? I'm sure Hickson can tell if it is, but given that he has been doing the entire time he has been posting I suspect it is effective. The real question then is why it is effective? It is like asking why is Kola Boof effective, despite her unorthodox methods? I have my theories, but hopefully we will hear from Hickson himself. One clue we can all observe are his post's views counts. They are typically relatively high but i think that has to do with his use of social media. Boitumelo types in all caps too. In fact, if was because of that reason -- I simply never read any of his (I still think he) posts. One day, I think it was Carey who pointed out the poetry in one of Boitumelo's all cap posts. I said to myself,"well I'll be damned!" I prejudged the fellow simply because his caps lock key is permanently locked. I was guilty of prejudice. Summarily dismissing his contributions simply because they were written in all caps and did not conform to a standard that I'd been taught. Now I still would prefer if Hickson and Biotumelo would type in "proper" case. But that is up to them -- either way I'll read their posts. At least Biotumeo's. Hickson I honestly do not read all of your posts when they are long. The all caps really does make the text more difficult to read -- at least for me. Maybe with your younger demographic this is not an issue. I trust you magazine is not in all caps

Cynique, it looks like you understand the point I was trying to may regarding aliens and blacks writing on Slavery. Indeed you expressed mu sentiments better (not uncommon). The "All Caps" Hickson

GoDaddy was the target of protests after it was discovered that the company supported unpopular bills the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) and Protect IP Act (PIPA): http://www.cbsnews.c...responsibility/ From Wikipedia GoDaddy is an Internet domain registrar and Web hosting company that also sells e-business related software and services. In 2010, it reached more than 45 million domain names under management. Go Daddy is currently the largest ICANN-accredited registrar in the world, and is four times the size of its closest competitor.

Some cat on twitter named "AnonymousOwn3r" Security leader of #Anonymous has claimed responsibility for bringing down GoDaddy and a large portion of the websites on the WWW. Apparently the feeling is that GoDaddy is a bad corporate entirely and is being punished. GoDaddy seemed like a good company to me. One of the few large corporations that provide local 24x7 phone support and reasonably priced services which support small businesses. The rationale for attacking Go Daddy is not clear to me yet. I'm losing money and potential business as a result. My websites http://edit1st.com http;//domainsforauthors.com and http://huria.org are all down -- these site provide services and features to other sites so even AALBC.com is impacted as well. For example, my bookstore database is down http://aalbc.com/writers/bookstores.html because the database lives on a Go Daddy server. Countless other business larger and small are effected by this outage this is a MAJOR outage -- perhaps one of the worse outages I've witness in all my time online. The collateral damage inflicted on on perhaps millions of websites and thousands and thousands of small business does not seem to be worth the attack against GoDaddy.. I could easily come up with some more logical targets -- companies that do far more damage, and if their websites went away forever the WWW would actually be much better off. Maybe there is some hope after all...

writegirl870, you understand.

Am I the only one who thinks the coverage of the presidential campaign is indistinguishable from a reality TV program? Use of purportedly real people - √ Situations or environment manipulated - √ Interactions designed to appear unscripted - √ Participants in direct competition - √ Live footage edited to "enhance" story - √ Goal is to provide entertainment - √√ That said, I'm not sure we the public would have it any other way.

Milton, these quotes illustrates why I don't follow your argument, There is no Black person alive that was enslaved. There is probably no one alive that knew anyone that was enslaved. While the impact of slavery effects us today in incalculable ways. No one really knows what it was like to have actually been enslaved in the American south -- therefore writers are forced to write outside their experience -- and this is fine. If you agree with this then you'd have to agree that both Black and white people are at the same disadvantage trying to develop a "real" character. Of course both Black and white writers can read about the experiences of enslaved Black people. If the writers are equally skilled, I submit they would be equally able to write a good character. In fact many Black writers are culturally indistinguishable from your average white American (they grew up in a mostly white communities, went to mostly white schools, etc). In fact, one could argue that since black folks are more likely to be emotionally charged about slavery they would be more biased, less objective and create characters that are less historically accurate. What a black writer is perhaps better able to do is develop a character that resonates more with Back readers, because of a greater likelihood of that author and the Black reader have similar backgrounds and shared experiences. This does not mean that the enslaved character is more "real". I'll agree Black folks have an advantage when writing racism in the 21st century -- living something is completely different than reading about it.

One argument I get against bookstores relevancy is the record store analogy. That is book are to Albums and eBook are to music files. The analogy is flawed in my opinion because you actually read the physical book; you handle it, you write in it, you turn pages, display them, look at pretty picture tear pages out, etc. LP's and iTune files are listened to. As a result, when a technology make the process of listening easier and better the change from wind up Victrola to iPds is welcomed and the stores are not missed by anyone but the hardcore album -- any for those folks a few stores stay open.

Writegirl you may have found the quote of Kola's you shared funny but I agree with it. Indeed, it is much of the reason there is a rift between self -published authors and those "validated" by the academy or urban authors and literary authors. But Kola can say some very funny stuff, especially when she is tearing into someone defending herself. Just run this google query for 1,000's of examples. Cynique, I would never try to reign you in any more that I would Kola Boof, or even Thumper for that matter. Thumper broke every freaking rule of book review writing (except being honest), but I published his reviews and he made a real name for himself -- because he was brutally honest. I took as much heat for the stuff that Thumper wrote as I have for Kola. The last thing I was is a discussion forum where everybody agrees with everybody else -- that is uninteresting, and you can't learn anything that way. If I wanted that I'd spend all my time on Facebook. Very few have given me grief for anything you have written Cynique. I've never deleted any of your comments, nor Thumpers and less than a handful of Kola's. I'm sorry you did not get along with ABM. Both of you are great contributors. I liked Chris Hayden too. He and I were often at opposite sides of an issue. Which forced me to examine my opinions -- though I suspect at times he gave me grief for the sake of giving me grief, like always assuming I applied my NY City sensibilities to every situation. There are always new people signing up -- but still lurking.... As I always say, this discussion board is useless without contributors thanks everyone for sharing.

Thanks for taking the time to weigh in. I see that you have indeed developed quite a following on facebook and especially twitter (your twitter followed to follower ratio is off the chain!). I don't enjoy those social platforms nearly as much as I enjoyed these boards -- particularly in the heyday. I find social media to be much more narcissistic (by design). Consider even the prospect of discovering a good book to read. On facebook we have a bazillion authors telling us how great their books are. No one is there to challenge critique or honestly discuss any given book. if someone tries it they are unfriended or deleted Here people will give their honest opinions. In fact, this is what Thumper was known for and the reason he was so popular. Even in your case Kola no matter what people said about you folks KNEW you could write. That was not based what you said about your work, but based upon people seeing how you expressed yourself here and the feedback posters who read your work. But you have to acknowledge your relationship with Thumper was unnecessarily acrimonious. I believe in letting people express themselves freely, but I often wonder if I should have actively moderated the conflict between the two of you. In reality i did not have the time -- even if I wanted I probably would have still decided to let you work it out yourselves. Kola you also have to understand that most people do not believe everything you say. For example, when you drop a bomb shell like unknowingly sleeping with Zane's husband, most people would be shocked into outrage or disbelief. You get that right? Most people keep their sex lives to themselves -- especially when it might impact others adversely. I think we all miss ABM, at least I do. His interactions with the rest of you all were priceless. "We should have a Motown of publishing" that is SO on point! This failure irks me to no end. I think it is possible.

Here is a comment that an old frequent posted provided: "Troy, I think you make some good points in your post...Facebook has been a game-changer, and I believe that Thumper's Corner is not the only discussion forum that has been affected by its presence. I think too that the presence of some overpowering commentators on the board may have driven more people off than you may know."

Interesting to see a rap video glorifying white self-hatred. Maybe now Black folks will see how dumb we look doing it. All this video needs are the obligatory rump shakin' hoochie mamas to objectify women.

Cynique your feedback is always interesting providing a new ways to look at something. Sounds like you and hubby had a great relationship I thought about the the issue of the posts being perceived a smug or bragging, but figured that would not be a problem since it is not the authors themselves showing off but me, a 3rd party. I hope to get to the Blog post this weekend and an eNewsletter next week then I'm gonna take it easy for a few...

Recently I've been highlighting married couple who have written books and maintained successful marriages. Doing one is difficult. Doing both is rare and I think really noteworthy. Apparently that idea puts me in the minority. With the exception of the Obama's, so much time an energy is spent focusing on the negative aspects of marriage: The astonishingly high divorce rates, the out of wed lock babies the disintegration of the Black family, the Will and Jada Smiths of the world, etc I figured I'd invest a little energy to buck the trend and highlight the positive. I've used Pinterest, Facebook, Twitter to highlight couple ranging from Mr. & Mrs. Jaquavis and Ashley Coleman to Mr. & Mrs Richard and Valerie Wilson Wesley. So far the reaction has been a deafening silence. I've had accidental Facebook posts generate more interest and reaction. While I knew better than to expect the reaction I got from something more negative like bookstore closings or scandalous like a -- but the absence of reaction to my married couple profiles is almost alarming. I still plan to write a blog post about married literary couple, mention it in my next enewsletter, a post a link on my home page and get the full force of AALBC.com behind the highlighting of married couples; which will give me a better indication of the reaction of a wider audience. But initial reaction is so muted. I decided to cut the initiative short. I spoke to a couple of people about the muted reaction and the general consensus is that most people are not married and they are not interested in hearing about others who are. I have to admit that thought occurred to me as well. At any rate, in a couple of weeks after my eNewsletter goes out I'll have a better indication. What do you all think?