By powerless or impotent I mean across all racial lines

Phenotypical race: black

Gender race: female

Religious race: muslim

Geographic descendency race: Native American

 

Black people heavily viewed in media  complain about the USA being the USA but I never hear them answer if they had power, what will they do?

https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2397&type=status

I've read where @Cynique on more than one occasion claim that if Black people were in the same position or had just as much power as Whites....we'd be doing the same thing as them.

I don't think so.

Collectively speaking, Africans and Caucasians have different mentalities because our genetics are different.
While we may abuse our power like any race would, I don't believe we'd be as homicidal or downright genocidal as Caucasians.

If AfroAmericans were to immediately gain the upper hand in this nation, with our mentality I believe many would use it on eachother.
Instead of being a united force to oppress other groups, with the mentality so many of our people have today....I believe our people would break up into different factions based on religion, geography, and possibly even age/generation....and begin attacking eachother.

There are many reasons for this, but one reason is that Black people...for the large part....don't fear genetic annihilation like most Whites.
So they don't mind "offing" a few of their own.

15 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If AfroAmericans were to immediately gain the upper hand in this nation, with our mentality I believe many would use it on eachother.
Instead of being a united force to oppress other groups, with the mentality so many of our people have today....I believe our people would break up into different factions based on religion, geography, and possibly even age/generation....and begin attacking eachother.

Bro, there is a recurring theme in your posts that highlights dysfunctional AfroAmericans (weed smoking, lazy, criminal-minded, murderous n8gglets).   

 

I'll be the 1st to admit that we do have bad apples among us.  They can be dealt with under the right conditions.

 

However, the pathology of a dysfunctional AfroAmerican can be traced directly to racism white supremacy. 

 

Otherwise, most AfroAmericans are not nearly as prone to violence and killing each other as white folks. 

 

Look no further than wars.  White folks have killed hundreds of millions of people throughout recorded history.  

 

Powerlessness in overthrowing the system of racism white supremacy is the root cause of all problems among AfroAmericans.

 

IMO, AfroAmericans would be just as peaceful as every group of Black folks on the planet if they didn't have the yoke of racism white supremacy.😎

On 8/6/2023 at 6:25 PM, Pioneer1 said:

I’ve read where @Cynique on more than one occasion claim that if Black people were in the same position or had just as much power as Whites....we'd be doing the same thing as them.

i believe she is right. It is a function of being raised in this country. You don’t get into positions of power in this country without doing the same thing they do.

 

@richardmurray, the “H” in HBCU, ISD you know stands for “historically” not “currently.”  A white kid from Morehouse, their valedictorian, was given a high playing job at Goldman Sachs when I was there.

 

I think that should have been a Black kid in that position. If Morehouse is educating young white boys to do well then they are not serving Black parole as well as they should and they can just go on a be a “regular” school. 
 

On 8/6/2023 at 6:25 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Collectively speaking, Africans and Caucasians have different mentalities because our genetics are different.

This is profoundly flawed reasoning. white is a social construct, African speaks to geography, “mentality” depending on how you are defining it, is driven by culture, and genetics… 

 

White racists, for centuries, used the now debunked idea that black people were genetically inferior. 
 

you make it sound as if any white person put into power would be a homicidal maniac, while any black person would bring peace to the world.

 

Individuals are just that individuals. Making sweeping generalizations about people based upon the way  they look is the definition of racism.

I don't know. Nelson Mandela was peaceful. Winnie was handling out necklaces. And avoided a murder charge.

 

Black people in America weren't meant to survive. One South American country kicked out all the former slaves , after slavery was abolished.

 

I would make a distinction between power of people and control over them.

8 hours ago, Troy said:

. Making sweeping generalizations about people based upon the way  they look is the definition of racism.

Ok.....lol.....then find me that "definition" in a dictionary.

I'll wait.

@Pioneer1

First, Cynique's assertion is false as you never know until the critical moment. I can look back on history and tell you what white people have done, but assuming if the phenotypes are reversed will lead to a mirror history is just that, assumption and unwarranted. 

I concur that various groups in various races are different. 

Women are not men in the gender race.

Blacks are not whites in the phenotypical race.

Asians are not Europeans in the geographic race.

But I don't say this based on genetics. I say this based on heritage, an underrated word or concept. People  love to talk of culture, what is grown from today. The unknown of the future allows people to be positive.  But people don't like to speak of the complexities, the communal complexities of heritage, what we carry from yesterday. Especially as in modern humanity, most yesterdays are near complete to negativity for most.

In my view, the variance between whites or blacks in the usa, notice my geographic focus, comes from the variant relationships to the place. 

Why are white people in the usa? They are here for their betterment regardless of others. The white people of europe that freely came on those boats to the native american lands were not thinking of multiculturalism or multiracial or peace on earth or rule of the people or rule of the king, they were thinking, how can I make life better for me , no matter what I have to do. 

Why are black people in the usa? They haven't figured out how to leave. The Black people of africa that was forced to come in those boats to the native american lands were no thinking of multiulturalism or multiracial or peace on earth or rule of the people or rule of the obas, they were thinking, how can I go home, no matter what I have to do.

These two heritages in my eyes is the true source of the variance between blacks side whites in their relationship to the usa.

HEritage isn't weak, it isn't as solid as a genetic sequence but I argue heritage can survive for a long time. Because heritage at its core is related from parent to child. 

So, in my view, I don't think you or Cynique or correct, cause either of you assuming is just that, an assumption. You don't know and while assuming about an individual is at least challenging at most impossible, assuming about a community, a collection of human beings, is at least impossible, at most folly.

I use James Baldwin for my point. He said his father hated whites, and yet, his father never attacked whites. His father prayed in church for white people's damnation in a heaven where only black people exist.

DO you see? James Baldwin's father like most black people in the british colonies or the usa from it want one thing, to leave. Death is a form of leaving .White people's heritage is to thrive in the usa regardless of how. Black DOSers heritage is to desire to leave the usa, even if we can't. 

But, with modern immigration the usa has added many others who have muddled the racial situation even more. 

And that is why I asked, 

Quote

Black people heavily viewed in media  complain about the USA being the USA but I never hear them answer if they had power, what will they do?

The point is to admit what you want, whatever it is. The problem is less about who will do what in power in the usa, but the damage so many of the powerless in lying about what they desire if in power, no matter what it is. This goes back to Frederick Douglass. He publicly said he opposed leaving the usa, having black states in the union, warring with whites. Frederick douglass at least publicly stated what he wanted. That is why the black masses booed his speech as most black people didn't want what he wanted. But, Black people today in the usa, tend to curl around what they want, whatever it is, and emit lies. 

 

@ProfD I don't know what black people in the usa will do if in power. I don't like to assume that. No one knows. 

I think the black populace in the usa today in itself has many various desires on how to relate to the usa and tend to undercut each other cause many of these paths don't mix. Most black people in the usa want betterment for black people, but most black people in the usa seem unable to handle how to be a community of people going different paths. Most Black individuals in the usa can accept the entire village doing what said person thinks the whole village should do or individualism en mass. But Few Black individuals in the usa can accept the truth, we are a community of tribes who want various things. Is it fair? no. Is it lucky? no. But it is the truth. And the heritage of christian preaching has made it difficult for many black people to accept that truth.

 

@Troy 

 good one, yes, historically, not currently:) Yes, the CBCU's  need to be repurposed. I concur. I think the black community en masse has become disconnected to them for them to be considered so vital to the black community en masse. But of course, the problem is the black one percent who use the CBCU's for their communal efforts. Like black churches, the CBCU's in modernity are about a specific tribe in the village, not the whole village.

 

I oppose one thing you say. 

Quote

Making sweeping generalizations about people based upon the way  they look is the definition of racism.

That is a lie troy, what you call racism is bias, not racism. Racism at its heart has no bias. Comprehend, the use of genus/species is a form of racism. You really have to learn, and I am not preaching but I do think people in general need to learn to the use word bias properly. Racism is not bias. LAst names, family names, is racist. The whole point of clan names is to have a symbol of orientation to a group. it is meant to classify, to rank, to make one of a race. It isn't bias though. 

I am black/male/hetero/anglo/descended of enslaved/human...  these terms have no bias. 

I am black based on my appearance. 

male based on being born with a penus

hetero based on the desire to fornicate side the female gender.

anglo based on the language i communicate in most

descended of enslaved based on my ancestors condition in the american continent at a time.

Human based on my genetic sequence.

None of this is bias. No generalization exist in any of these definitions. These are simple facts, but not limiters. 

Just because I am black doesn't mean someone can't call me mulatto. 

Just because I am male doesn't mean I can't neuter myself to delete the ability to use my penis to its fullest.

Just because I am hetero doesn't mean I can't be raped by a man

Just because I am anglo doesn't mean I can't learn mandarin

Just because I am descended of enslaved doesn't mean I can't associate to the land my forebears were enslaved to. 

Just because I am human doesn't mean I can't want to marry a tree.

I am preaching sadfully, but the word is bias not racism. I really hope more people in humanity stop using the word race inappropriately.

 

@Delano

A black asian of indian descent who was in the courtroom when mandela was imprisoned said it best. He came in a warrior in traditional garb and left prison in a european suit. 

Mandela left prison peaceful, but he was also broken. The man he was before prison, like many who have been in prison, was broken into something else. 

Now that something else was satisfactory to whites in power, satisfactory to black leaders who preached nonviolence in south africa or usa, but that something else was unsatisfactory to the majority of black people in south africa, who represent most of the populous. 

Winnie Mandela was excommunicado from the leadership. It is that simple. Mandela/Tutu/Declerk/ the white + black one percents in south africa were united. They each had an element that when put together made a key point in south african history. 

The truth is, like in all countries ala the usa at the end of the war between the states, it will take time for south africa's truth to mold the choices made at the crucual moment into the future. 

 

Your wrong, no people's really die. Jews always lived in Germany even through all the nazi's killing. The druids , native people of what is called england, didn't die off even though the history books keep saying they did.  The Black populace in the usa will always exist. Maybe one day a large exodus out the usa happens, that would actually be historical balance. Maybe one day a war happens involving the usa and black folk are on the losing side again. That happened in the past multiple times concerning the usa. But the black populace in the usa will survive in some numbers. Hell, the native american wasn't completely annihilated and white people of europe tried their best so... no people's die. Get small, perhaps. Get large, perhaps too. But never die out. 

richardmurray

That was the reasoning behind my sarcastic reply to Troy.....lol.

What he described was PREJUDICE or BIAS.....not RACISM.

 

 

On 8/6/2023 at 6:25 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Collectively speaking, Africans and Caucasians have different mentalities because our genetics are different.
While we may abuse our power like any race would, I don't believe we'd be as homicidal or downright genocidal as Caucasians.

 

You believe one's so called race is the reason for the differences between what you see as Black and white people (again people I would call Black, like Rock Newman, you reject and call them white, but that understandable since race is purely subjective). 

 

The statement you made is racist.  I don't believe homo sapiens with pink skin are any more homicidal than any of the other ones with different skin color.  

 

10 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

That is a lie troy, what you call racism is bias, not racism. Racism at its heart has no bias.

 

Come on Brother-man the "bias" Pioneer expresses is rooted in racism.  Bias is a direct consequence of racism. 

 

 

From Merriam Webster:

racism noun

rac·ism ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm  

 also  -ˌshi-

 

1

1 : a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

From Merriam Webster:

 

also : behavior or attitudes that reflect and foster this belief : racial discrimination or prejudice

Troy

 

Quote

Making sweeping generalizations about people based upon the way  they look is the definition of racism.

 

Is NOT the same as:

 

Quote

racism noun
rac·ism ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm  
 also  -ˌshi-
 
1
1 : a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
From Merriam Webster:

 
also : behavior or attitudes that reflect and foster this belief : racial discrimination or prejudice

 

 

Those are two separate statements.
 

I'm still waiting on you to show me where you found that "definition of racism" you posted up there.

I'll wait....but I won't wait TOO long.
I got some catfish to fry.....lol.


You don't believe that different races exist ANYWAY, so how can you call someone "racist"?
According to your beliefs, racists and racism shouldn't exist.

@Troy 

I can not tell you how many writing groups I have been part of where the following came up side my fellow crafters of words. Even as a child. 

But here we go again. Websters is wrong.  PEople are misusing the word, it is that simple. And I go one further. Webster's and many dictionaries in all earnest puts too much weight on figurative evaluations in words. I don't care if 99 percent of people use a word a certain way. 99% are simply using it wrongly. 

Racism/Bias/Prejudice are not as defined in websters.

And I will use the definition you gave to support my point.

 

You said

Quote

1 : a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
From Merriam Webster:

 
also : behavior or attitudes that reflect and foster this belief : racial discrimination or prejudice

 

First, a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits. 

well how does your websters define race

Quote

any one of the groups that humans are often divided into based on physical traits regarded as common among people of shared ancestry

That isn't race:) Troy, that isn't race. Race isn't a divider of humanity. Race isn't bounded to physical traits. Race is any classification scheme that can be applied on humanity by humans. 

Me , you, Schtrumpf, Nahomie Osaka are human beings, children of earth. That is the shared ancestry.  The fact that three of us are male and one is female. Three of us are black and one is white. One has recent asian lineage and three don't. One speaks japanese , three don't. All speak english.  These are not dividers, it is merely a classification scheme. 

 

So websters definition of race is false. Which makes sense cause their definition of racism is false. 

What divides human beings are rules or policies, not racism. The train track didn't divide towns because black people side non blacks don't share the same shades of skin. Non blacks power+ policies made the train track divide, and it was the bias in their use of power or creation of policies, not racism. 

 

No point in going further because the primary explanation to the word is false by webster. 

A classification scheme isn't even a belief. it is a tool.  But when webster placed race as webster defines it their definition is totally flawed. 

 

Race is a classification scheme applied on any grouping. 

When humans say, lions and tigers are cats that is racism. 

Racism is actions to define race. 

When humans make a book describing cats that is racism. 

Bias is making an opinion on a race

When humans say black cats are evil, that is bias. 

When humans say the pig can not be eaten, that is bias

When humans say the cow can not be eaten, that is bias

 

humans calling another human black is racism. 

humans calling another human stupid cause their black is bias

humans calling another human woman is racism

humans calling another human foolish cause their woman is bias

humans calling another human old is racism

humans calling another human weak cause their old is bias

humans calling another human christian is racism

humans calling another human fanatics cause their christian is bias

 

Now, having preached , I apologize again, I already know most folk don't use the words the way I do. I know. And I know you troy or others will continue to use words as you have. I comprehend 100%. But your wrong. that is what I will conclude on. it is that simple. Use words better, trust me, it matters. 

 

 

@Delano I don't know the south american country you are referring to but white argentines who controlled the argentine government, didn't kick out black argentineans, they murdered them wholesale. 

5 hours ago, richardmurray said:

Your wrong, no people's really die.

Where did I say that?

@Delano you didn't

you said

Quote

 

Black people in America weren't meant to survive. 

what I was thinking but didn't articulate honestly was all people are meant to survive, all people, and the proof is all people do. 

I think alm people have a right to live freely and with dignity. However history has shown that not everyone feel that way.

I think alm people have a right to live freely and with dignity. However history has shown that not everyone feel that way.

Science asserts that social construct of race has no basis in genetics.  Therefore, the association of characteristics like intelligence, or the propensity to violence, to one's race, commonly known as racism, cannot be based in genetics. 

 

That is axiomatic, like the Earth is not flat.  

 

You guys are being intellectually dishonest, playing verbose linguistic gymnastics, dismissing science, arguing with the dictionary, and for what?

 

@Pioneer1 I provided the source of my definition of racism.  @richardmurray found it, I'm not sure why you missed it.  But I'm sure you'll reject the dictionary's definition, as he did, in favor of you own.

@Troy I once asked in this very group what literature in the black community reflects various groups, and people only spoke to their own group if at all. 

One of the hurdles of the future for the black community in the usa, with its specific situations, is Black people in the usa are going to have to embrace how various the tribes are in our community in the usa. 

I know I jumped away from the debate over the word race , but I did cause that debate is done. PEople can have different definitions for words. And I don't see any illogic in my usage, nor based on your elementals do I see illogic in yours.

But the deeper issue is communication between tribes. Language reflects the subtle grouping one is in and I know Black people, some large tribes,  in the usa have been, to be blunt, criminal in their acceptance of the multiintralingual presence in the black community in the past, and I see that hasn't ebbed. And that is a problem. 

To be blunt, it is black people who killed all the many Black lingual dialects all about the usa from enslaved times. 

Regardless of why, the heritage of that act is a hurdle for the future, I argue the present. 

 

Troy

Well if different RACES don't exist in your opinion, then how can RACISM exist?

For you to complain about racism in this society would be like an atheist complaining about blasphemy.

@Pioneer1 you are still playing games.  You know very well my point of contention with you is your assertion that the social construct of race is based in our genetics. 

 

Of course, racism exists; this website exists in direct reaction to racism.  The idea that race is determined by our genes has been disproven.

 

Still, you would deny Rock Newman reparations simply because, in your estimation, he is white.

1 hour ago, Troy said:

@Pioneer1 you are still playing games.  You know very well my point of contention with you is your assertion that the social construct of race is based in our genetics. 

 

Of course, racism exists; this website exists in direct reaction to racism.  The idea that race is determined by our genes has been disproven.

 

1. Racial classification is based on skin color....and skin color is based upon genetics, is it not?

2. A key factor of racism is the elevation of one race OVER another.
If different races don't exist....as you assert....then how can racism?

That's like a kid who doesn't believe in Santa Claus complaining about how unfair it is that OTHER kids got presents but HIS house was skipped over, lol.

We have been over the before.

 

Sure, skin color has a basis in genetics, but it is a complex trait influenced by environmental factors as well. Skin color is the result of evolutionary adaptations to different environments over time. You trace any so-called white person back far enough you'll end up with what you understand as Black person. 

 

The human genetic variation is a continuum and as a result you can not use genetics to categorized people into distinct racial groups based upon skin color, lip thickness, hair color, whatever.  This is why there is no such thing as a genetic test for race.

 

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

If different races don't exist....as you assert....then how can racism?

 

It is because people use the same flawed reasoning you are using, you just can't see it.

Troy

If race is based on genetics (color, hair structure, facial features, etc...) then there absolutely are genetic tests for it.

White scientists have routinely claimed to have identified the race of various peoples and figures based on DNA samples from tissues of corpses thousands of years old.

@Pioneer1 

racism can be based on any factor, not just skin color. racism can be based on religious affiliation,language,geographic descendencyy, family name  which is not genetically based. While it can be based on hair, height, gender... skin which all have a genetic basis, cause genomes of the DNA in the complex biomolecular system of humans dictates them. Don't limit racism to phenotype simply because as black people we have dealt with negative bias from whites in a phenotypical racial system in the usa. Racism come in infinite forms , some are genetically based, some are not. 

 

But bias is not a key factor of racism, one from a phenotypical range thinking themselves better or worse than another in another phenotypical range isn't racism , it is bias. Bias can be positive or negative. But bias is never genetic . Emotions are not bias. And bias is never neutral, that is unbiased.

To restate , and this is the problem with you or @Troy. Both of you make an automatic connection between bias side race that is dysfunctional. Troy suggest bias is race, and you embed bias into race. But neither suggestion is true. just because bias is not based on genetics doesn't mean some forms of race isn't. Just because humans choose to be biased in a racial system doesn't mean the racial system is biased. 

 

My proof is humanity. You have a last name but you don't hate or love most others who don't have your last name.  You having a last name is racism. You are mostly unbiased to those who don't share your last name. But, you may have biases to some who do not share your last name.  In the same way if you have a child they will be born with one of three things: a penis in which they  are male, a vagina in which they are female, or they have a hybrid between penis and vagina in which they  are a hermaphrodite. But if you are positively biased cause they are male, unbiased as their female, or negatively biased cause they are hermaphrodite, the bias isn't genetic. the race , gender, of your child is. but the bias to your child isn't. All racism are unbiased classifications. When I call someone white, that is unbiased. It isn't a slur or support. When I suggest negativity based on their phenotype that is bias. 

 

 

15 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If race is based on genetics (color, hair structure, facial features, etc...) then there absolutely are genetic tests for it.

 

Again these physical characteristics are on a continuum and also based upon environment. There simply are no Black and white race genes.

 

15 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

White scientists have routinely claimed to have identified the race of various peoples and figures based on DNA samples from tissues of corpses thousands of years old.

 

OK show a single paper, just one, so that I may read it.

 

1 hour ago, richardmurray said:

Don't limit racism to phenotype simply because as black people we have dealt with negative bias from whites in a phenotypical racial system in the usa. Racism come in infinite forms , some are genetically based, some are not. 

 

Again, while you may be right, I don't want to confuse American racism again people who look like you and I with the idea that there is a genetic basis for race.  

 

1 hour ago, richardmurray said:

When I suggest negativity based on their phenotype that is bias. 

 

I don't understand the distinction, you are making.  Negativity based upon phenotype is racism, this leads to bias. prejudice, bigotry.  Rejecting the label of racism in favor is bias makes no sense to me in the American context.

 

 

@Troy wait, you have added an adjective.  See this is the problem. I am speaking of racism, purely. Now you are saying american racism, which is more specific. 

You say I am wrong but then you use an adjective like that. 

Well... in the home I grew up in knowledge isn't enough, erudition and wisdom are more valuable. You say what I say may confuse black folks in the usa... well, then that explains the real problem.  The problem isn't word definitions. The problem by your assertion is that the black community in the usa has developed and accepted incorrect, simple terms for convenience. That is a negative. 

I rather them be confused and then over time gain erudition and not be confused. Why should we speak to our kin as if they can't handle things. I oppose what you suggest. If an idea may confuse, it should be conveyed and the challenge is to comprehend which you can in time.

What one human can do another can do. If one human , barring injury or manipulation, can comprehend a thing than so can any other, in similar fashion.

 

Why is it you refute what I cited in the following comment? 

 

 

I know you don't troy. For you + @Pioneer1, as I said in the prior comment , you both link race to bias, and they are not linked... at least let me amend and say , me side others do not link racism with bias, while you Troy + Pioneer side others link racism to bias. Negativity utilizing a racism is negative bias. Bias is also positive. When a parent favors their child. That is a positive bias to their child using a genetically based racism, the racism being bloodline.

It isn't based upon, again, your words + Pioneer's show a constant linkage and I oppose that. Racism can exist with unbiased approaches. You and Pioneer suggest that racism can not exist absent bias. I oppose that. When I walk out in the street, i see white people. I don't want to automatically attack them nor do I automatically want to run away from them and the law nor a set of conduct nor fear have anything to do with it. 

On 8/6/2023 at 12:41 PM, richardmurray said:

Black people heavily viewed in media

Per the photo, Joy-Ann Reid - as many people have repeatedly said, she is arguably one of the dumbest individuals to have ever been put in front of a camera.

Troy

 

Again these physical characteristics are on a continuum and also based upon environment. There simply are no Black and white race genes.

 

So because you don't agree with it, you're just going to fold your arms...look in the other direction...and simply declare it "non existent"?????

 

 

 

OK show a single paper, just one, so that I may read it.

 

I can show you more than one....I can show you several.
But you won't accept the information in them because you've already made up your mind that different races don't "exist".

All you'd do is DISMISS the article like you've done the others.
 

I might have to get a sworn affidavit from you that you'll accept the proof onces it's presented....lol.

 

 

 

 

nels

 

Per the photo, Joy-Ann Reid - as many people have repeatedly said, she is arguably one of the dumbest individuals to have ever been put in front of a camera.

And I suppose Judge Jeanine Pirro  of Fox News is a genius.....lol.

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I can show you more than one....I can show you several.

 
One will suffice. I’m sure if you had it you would have shared it by now.  I’ll wait….

22 hours ago, Troy said:

 
One will suffice. I’m sure if you had it you would have shared it by now.  I’ll wait….

Lol....don't wait TOO long.

"Man....he ain't posted any of those articles YET?????"