He (she) Couldn't Sell It.

[Pioneer1]

 

Like old man Junior Sopranos said about little "tough guy" Richie Aprile, when he was trying to decide who should be his successor as head of the Soprano Crime Family.

"He couldn't "sell it.
He couldn't fuckin' sell it.
....he's not respected."


Kamala Harris simply couldn't sell herself or her message to the American people as effectively as Trump.

She wasn't RESPECTED as much as he was nor was he admired or even "liked" by as many people.

For over a year I've seen TEENAGERS in the mall right out of highschool singing about and praising Trump.
He's a household name.
His "brand" sells.

The message is fucked up, racist, sexist, and backwards as hell....but it's charismatic....like him.

There was too much "distance" between her and the people and they couldn't figure her out.

This is not the first time.
During these last 30 years or so since Clinton, the Republicans have been EXCELLENT communicators when it comes to national elections.
They play dirty, deceptive, and use media manipulation and high psychology to trick and entice the populous into supporting them....and it works.

Democrats...those who are serious....need to sit down and seriously re-think this "if they go low - we go high" bullshit and think about WINNING.


 

[ProfD]

POTUS OJ has been a constant presence in the media for 8 years.

 

VP Kamala Harris showed up on the scene in relief of POTUS PJB in July 2024. No way she could make up enough ground in 4 months. 

 

The Democrats should have groomed a candidate 2 years ago to take over for POTUS PJB.

 

POTUS PJB hamstrung the Democratic party during the mid-terms when he decided to run for re-election. 

 

The Democratic party played the wrong game and lost.

[aka Contrarian]

Did you guys see Kamala's concession speech today? 

She seemed very comfortable in defeat and confident about the future.

[ProfD]

8 minutes ago, aka Contrarian said:

Did you guys see Kamala's concession speech today? 

She seemed very comfortable in defeat and confident about the future.

I only heard a portion of VP Harris' speech but she did seem gracious in conceding defeat. She vowed there would be a peaceful transfer of power.

 

VP Harris also plans to keep fighting for the campaign issues. Don't know in what capacity she plans to stay involved in politics when she leaves DC.

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

The Democratic party played the wrong game and lost

 

Was it that they played the wrong GAME...or were they playing the game with the wrong PLAYER?

 

 

I only heard a portion of VP Harris' speech but she did seem gracious in conceding defeat

 

Well, I didn't watch that shit.
For what?

You lost.

We don't want to hear concessions and farewells and excuses or telling people to "keep up the struggle" and all that extra shit.

Like Sugar told my man at the pool table in Harlem Nights.
"You lost.....now go home and brush that toof"....lol.

But see....that's the problem right there.
Too often Democrats are "gracious" and "comfortable" with being fucking losers and getting screwed over.
Republicans aren't.
 

If the roles were reversed, all types of lawsuits would have been filed against the Democrats and conspiracies of voter fraud and voter suppression would have been spread across the internet.
 

That's the difference between the two.



 

Cynique

She seemed very comfortable in defeat and confident about the future.
 

And THAT'S the fucking problem right there!
Democrats are too often COMFORTABLE losing.

Trump and most of the Republicans aren't.
They HATE losing and try to avoid it...lol.

[ProfD]

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Was it that they played the wrong GAME...or were they playing the game with the wrong PLAYER?

Both.  The Democrats strayed too far from the Left and propped up a weak candidate.

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Too often Democrats are "gracious" and "comfortable" with being fucking losers and getting screwed over.
Republicans aren't.
 

If the roles were reversed, all types of lawsuits would have been filed against the Democrats and conspiracies of voter fraud and voter suppression would have been spread across the internet.
 

That's the difference between the two.

The Democrats have always been spineless.  However, in this case, they lost so badly there's nothing to contest.

[Troy]

On 11/6/2024 at 9:04 PM, ProfD said:

VP Harris also plans to keep fighting for the campaign issues. Don't know in what capacity she plans to stay involved in politics when she leaves DC.

 

She’ll be put out to pasture like the Obamas and trotted out when the next presidential candidate needs soon support.

 

 Much of the work that needs to be done will be “beneath” a former VP.

 

On 11/6/2024 at 4:43 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Kamala Harris simply couldn't sell herself or her message to the American people as effectively as Trump.

help me put something into perspective; who did you vote for?

 

[ProfD]

10 hours ago, Troy said:

She’ll be put out to pasture like the Obamas and trotted out when the next presidential candidate needs soon support.

 

 Much of the work that needs to be done will be “beneath” a former VP.

Right. She'll do private speaking engagements and make money. She might keep her finger on the political pulse. 

[Troy]

… a ton of money, and without the headache of being president.

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

Both.  The Democrats strayed too far from the Left and propped up a weak candidate.

 

I agree!
They strayed too far to the Right in order to try to win over people who would NEVER vote or them and ended up losing a large portion of their base.

 

When was the last time you heard any Democrat talk about increasing social programs and public assistance benefits?
They don't even mention that anymore.
But so many people are hungry and facing homelessness.

 

 

The Democrats have always been spineless. 

 

I wouldn't say "always"...but certainly since Reagan.

Back in the 60s and especially in the 30s and 40s under Roosevelt, the Democrats were the shit.

 

 

Troy

 

help me put something into perspective; who did you vote for?

 

I voted or the person I felt would promote MY interests.

-Reparations
-Universal Healthcare
-Criminal Justice Reform

.....that's who I voted for, lol.

 

[Troy]

@Pioneer1 that FDR quote is fiction, he never said such a thing, that is why you can’t find a source.

 

I hear the main reason Kamala lost was the millions who sat out or voted third party.

[Mel Hopkins]

On 11/6/2024 at 7:43 PM, Pioneer1 said:

There was too much "distance" between her and the people and they couldn't figure her out.

72,925,374 votes (48.1%)

 

As of November 13, 2024, that is the number of votes cast for Madame Vice President Harris. That number of votes is more than Obama got in 2012, More than Trump won in 2016, and More than Hillary, who won the popular vote in 2016.

 

Harris got less than Biden during the pandemic when absentee ballots were still allowed and counted in most swing states.

 

VP Harris got that many votes in 107 days of campaigning, even with folks voting for third-party candidates, too!  

 

Nearly 73 million people understand Harris’s platform. 

 

White women, white men, and Latino men polled for voting for Donald in the swing states. None of Donald’s policies protect them, so maybe they believe he protects their “christian” values. Perhaps they think he will bring them a better economy.

 

Only in America can a highly qualified, exemplary professional woman do nearly the impossible and still lose the job to a less-than-mediocre, unqualified white man who is also a felon. 

 

Oh, by the way, I read Donald is giving out reparations - TO WHITE PEOPLE!!!

 

In his July video, Trump said:

"Furthermore, I will direct the Department of Justice to pursue federal civil rights cases against schools that continue to engage in racial discrimination. And schools that persist in explicit, unlawful discrimination under the guise of equity will not only have their endowments taxed, but through budget reconciliation, I will advance a measure to have them fined up to the entire amount of their endowment. A portion of the seized funds will then be used as restitution for victims of these illegal and unjust policies, policies that hurt our country so badly."

Edited November 14, 2024 by Mel Hopkins
Clarity and add a link

[Mel Hopkins]

On 11/6/2024 at 11:19 PM, ProfD said:

The Democratic party played the wrong game and lost.

 

When has the democratic party ever played the RIGHT game? Do you know about  Birch Bay? I just learned about him yesterday. Here is his story. How the Electoral College Was Nearly Abolished in 1970 | HISTORY 

 

 When the Democrats forced President Joe Biden to resign, I vowed to vote independent for the rest of my time here. They always do stupid things like that, which is why I worked with the Republican party from 2006-2008. Then President Obama came, and I gave them one more shot. In doing so, I lost my first and only political office, but I thought the Democratic party was taking a turn for the better. 

 

Welp, here we are in 2024, 16 years later, and VP Harris was right: "I'm not going back." because the Democrats are now throwing her under the bus! 

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Mel Hopkins said:

 

When has the democratic party ever played the RIGHT game? Do you know about  Birch Bay? I just learned about him yesterday. Here is his story. How the Electoral College Was Nearly Abolished in 1970 | HISTORY 

 

Welp, here we are in 2024, 16 years later, and VP Harris was right: "I'm not going back." because the Democrats are now throwing her under the bus! 

Interesting read. 

 

Way back in 1970, racist Senator Strom Thurmond convinced Black and Jewish leaders in NYC, Chicago and Detroit to vote against abolishing the electoral college. 

 

Seems like Democrats have been cutting their own throats in one way or another for 50+ years and counting.

 

That doesn't stop people from jumping aboard that party train.  GAP Band.

[umbrarchist]

I thought Trump was obviously an Egotistical Moronic Asshole in 2016. He spent 4 years as president proving me right, then another 4 years as ex-president putting a cherry on top.

 

More Americans would rather have a White male moronic asshole as president than a non-White female.

 

I admit that I did not pay a lot of attention to Kamala since I knew that I was voting against the asshole come hell or high water.

.

Edited November 14, 2024 by umbrarchist
Sp err

[nels]

On 11/6/2024 at 4:43 PM, Pioneer1 said:

The message is fucked up, racist, sexist, and backwards as hell

Apparently, the Democrats, Liberals and The Left haven't learned anything from Trump's win, so let them keep on digging that hole until they can no longer climb out of it. And yes, #TrumpWon and #MAGA is on the move.

19 hours ago, Troy said:

was the millions who sat out or voted third party

Nope. She was just a pathological liar and a terrible candidate.

On 11/6/2024 at 8:19 PM, ProfD said:

No way she could make up enough ground in 4 months.

No reflective perspectives. Just admit it, she lost her ass off.

On 11/6/2024 at 8:51 PM, aka Contrarian said:

She seemed very comfortable in defeat and confident

The woman is a basket case.

[Troy]

Welp @nels and @Pioneer1 are more reflective of the majority of the electorate…

[Pioneer1]

Troy

 

 

that FDR quote is fiction, he never said such a thing, that is why you can’t find a source.

 

 I know I heard those words in audio and I THOUGHT it was Franklin Roosevelt who said them.
Perhaps I was wrong.

 

Do you know for sure that it's fiction, as in...

You heard that quote before, and it was actually debunked?

Or did you do as I did and searched the web for it but couldn't find the source; so you just dismissed it as fiction?

 

 

 

 

Mel

 

 

Nearly 73 million people understand Harris’s platform. 

Whether they understood it or not, I think most of her supporters simply "went with it" because they didn't have much of a choice.
The DNC chose her to be the candidate and the rank-n-file and grassroots Democrats didn't have much of a choice.
 

I really think she was chosen out of LAZINESS.

They didn't actually prepare and GROOM a candidate to go up against Trump.
They had Biden, but when it became apparent that he was too senile to run, they just chose the next one in line....Harris.

The DNC didn't have a real PLAN or STRATEGY against Trump and his MAGA Movement

 

White women, white men, and Latino men polled for voting for Donald in the swing states. None of Donald’s policies protect them, so maybe they believe he protects their “christian” values. Perhaps they think he will bring them a better economy.
 

Well a lot of Black men voted for Trump (only about 20%...but still larger than past Republican candidates) and many more stayed on the couch in silent protest against BOTH candidates.
I believe THAT is one of the main reasons Trump got in.

Not the behavior of the Whites or Latinos.
Although some in the media are clearly trying to spin the "Latino support" narrative.



 

 

Only in America can a highly qualified, exemplary professional woman do nearly the impossible and still lose the job to a less-than-mediocre, unqualified white man who is also a felon. 
 

Mel, now you know the official "qualifications" to be President of the United States is pretty low..lol
Just be 35+, born and raised in the U.S. and a resident of this nation for more than 14 years.
The TRUE "qualification" to be President of the United States in the 21st Century has little to do with how smart and accomplished you are but how CHARISMATIC you are and your ability to attract and electrify the masses.
The actual leadership in the U.S. picks and chooses the candidate they want to run based on THOSE qualifications.

Trump was simply more charismatic and commanded more respect than Kamala.

 

Oh, by the way, I read Donald is giving out reparations - TO WHITE PEOPLE!!!
 

Yes.
Something VP Harris was adamant about NOT doing.

One more reason so many Black men just stayed on the couch.

If you want support, you have to explain to people how you will BENEFIT them.
It's not enough to shake your finger at them and accuse them of being sexist or lazy or "being difficult".
You have to actually OFFER them something....which Harris rarely did for Black men.

 

 

 

 

nels

 

 

Nope. She was just a pathological liar and a terrible candidate.

 

If being a pathological liar was a factor in one losing the election, Trump would have lost by a LANDSLIDE...lol.

 

[aka Contrarian]

Time for the cynical pessimist aka Contrarian to check in.

America has not only outgrown itself but it has regressed, becoming a cacaricature and  a mockery of the noble high standards it supposedly stands for. 

With  the re-election of the orange buffoon who Sylvester Stallone just referred to as a modern George Wasgington (?), what was destined to happen, is about to happen.

 A new American zeitgeist is set to begin,the government of which will be  a comedic farce with a cast of quacks and shysters and tin soldiers all gathered in the wings, waiting for the curtain to fall on what a Congress of  racist misogynistic  foundling fathers labeled a  "perfect union".   And a majority of this country's present population will feel right at home in the emerging  fascistic theocracy because it represents  who they really are. A bunch of religious hypocrites and  patiotic bigots who aren't too smart. What Americans actually are, has caught up with their 250 year old  masquerade.

 

 Sadly, going up against a Retrumpican Reich which will control all branches of the Government including the Supreme Court and the Armed Forces, will be a formidable task for the Liberal opposition. Free speech may even be punished.

Welcome to the Red States of the American Heritage Foundation.

 

Any regrets or apprehensions I had about leaving this life have miraculously disappeared.  I'm ready to blow this pop stand.   

[Pioneer1]

America is whatever AFROAMERICANS collectively decide to make it.

If this IS a racist country, it's because WE allowed it to be.

If this IS a sexist country, it's because WE allowed it to be.

If things HAVE gone backwards in this nation, it's because WE allowed it.

Our laziness and desire to imitate and get closer to White people rather than form a more perfect union in OUR image and likeness is a much bigger threat to our community than White racism.
 

[ProfD]

21 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

America is whatever AFROAMERICANS collectively decide to make it.

As @richardmurray points out, Black folks are fractured into tribes.

 

AfroAmericans have been sub-divided by several factors including class, status, orientation, religious beliefs, politics, etc 

21 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Our laziness and desire to imitate and get closer to White people rather than form a more perfect union in OUR image and likeness is a much bigger threat to our community than White racism.

Integration was the beginning of our sub-division.

 

With over a half-century of counter-programming, it would take a herculean effort and movement to codify an AfroAmerican community capable of making America a more perfect union for us.

 

There are no charismatic AfroAmerican leaders folks are willing to follow. Pulpit pimps don't count.

[Pioneer1]

12 minutes ago, ProfD said:

 

Integration was the beginning of our sub-division.

 

I wouldn't say Integration was the "beginning" of our sub-division, but it definitely accelerated it.

As much as I admire the Nation of Islam and the great works that it did and still does.....IT...like the Moorish Science Temple and other socio-religious movements of the 20th century played a huge role in fragmenting Black America.

Before these groups introduced new religions, new moral codes, and new ways of looking at White people and history....the vast majority of Black America was pretty much a monolith in terms of religion and morality.  
Nearly all Black Americans believed in Jesus and were Bible believing Christians.

The only real division...and it was real...was based on skin color and dark vs light.
The various organizations that pulled Black Americans way from traditional Christianity and the church taught Black people how to think in different ways, however it also fragmented the moral and ethical pattern of collective Black American thought leading to more division.

Today, many if not most Black Americans can't AGREE on what's "right" or what's "wrong".

[ProfD]

9 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

I wouldn't say Integration was the "beginning" of our sub-division, but it definitely accelerated it.

I was thinking in terms of what we've seen over the past half-century or so.

 

But you're right, religous movements fragmented Black folks further back. Same goes for organizations. 

 

9 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Today, many if not most Black Americans can't AGREE on what's "right" or what's "wrong".

Even if we cannot decide what's right and wrong the law will be a tie-breaker.

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

 

Even if we cannot decide what's right and wrong the law will be a tie-breaker.

 

I was actually going to mention this further down the line but you got ahead of me, lol.

 

We can talk religion and morality all we want, but for MOST people of all races, religions, and ethnicities...the LAW seems to be the final arbiter of what is "good" or "bad" because they have the power to impose IMMEDIATE consequences for breaking the rules.

 

Your religion can talk religious rules all day long, but if you break a rule...other than ex-communicating you...what can they legally do to you?

Will their be Divine punishment?

But if you commit a LEGAL crime like robbery, you can expect for the police to IMMEDIATELY come looking for you.

 

So if we want to restore a sense of moral and ethical unity among our people, we have to look at the laws on the books and seek to change them to our benefit and liking.

[aka Contrarian]

It amazes me that you guys still think Blacks have any power left to do or influence anything in America. With the Retrumpicans in control of EVERYTHING, the only thing any of the leaderless black tribes or the demoralized Democrats will be able to do is what the entrenched regime will allow them to do. Pioneer's delusion that America will be  what Blacks make it become is beyond ludicrous.  

Do y'all really think those in power will concede elections to opponents if, indeed, elections are held any more.  Do you really think Congress or the Senate backed up by the Supreme Court and Speaker of the House and, if necessary, the Military, not to mention the technology of the shadow dictator, Elon Musk, will pass any legislation that benefits anybody but those already in power? 

You dreamers seem to be totally oblivious to the reality that Retrumpicans, aided and abetted, by the Ameican Heritsge Foundation, which crafted Project 25,  and also got out the vote for tRump, will take over the country. They are organized and they've got the numbers. 

It will take a revolution to overturn the new Reich. And revolutions take decades to get it together.

 

Am I an alarmist? Time will tell.

[richardmurray]

@Mel Hopkins

On 11/14/2024 at 10:10 AM, Mel Hopkins said:

Then President Obama came, and I gave them one more shot. In doing so, I lost my first and only political office,

I never knew this, have you spoken about this in the forum? what position? I will like to read your thoughts on your time as a government agent.

 

@Pioneer1

On 11/16/2024 at 11:02 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Not the behavior of the Whites or Latinos.
Although some in the media are clearly trying to spin the "Latino support" narrative.

No it is true, Schrumpft won the bronx in NYC, he didnt' win nyc but he won or at least split even the bronx and that was the latino vote, and I know latinos who live in the south and he won really big in the soutehrn states latino populaces. But here is the thing, from my offline dialogs, what few in media are saying, though it was loud in a ny times article before the election, many latinos in the usa who are , doing well for themselves, want the gate closed. This happened with the irish in nyc, who wanted to shut nyc off from other irish during the potato famine, alot of times in the usa, group who immigrate into it freely, tend to dislike people just like them coming in when financial times are tight. 

 

@aka Contrarian

22 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

Time for the cynical pessimist aka Contrarian to check in.

America has not only outgrown itself but it has regressed, becoming a cacaricature and  a mockery of the noble high standards it supposedly stands for. 

I don't think your quote is pessimistic, i think your quote is honest. 

The immiagration act was far more powerful than many, including many whites admitted publicly or maybe even privately

I quote Lyndon B Johnson

This bill that we will sign today is not a revolutionary bill. It does not affect the lives of millions. It will not reshape the structure of our daily lives, or really add importantly to either our wealth or our power.

the following is my citation and continue my thought

https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2785&type=status

Johnson was wrong. And it makes your point the true key issue in 2024. Before the immigration act, the usa had three major populations. Whites/ Blacks/ First People. Blacks  were mostly the group some call DOSers, descended of enslaved but their minorities in the black populace, like black latinos, negras , those who speak a language derived from the latin,  like roberto clemente, black  caribbeans like marcus garvey, speaks english but a willing immigrant to the usa not forced to immigrate. 

Whites were mostly anglo saxon protestant, most whites were of german stock and the angles or saxons while part of enlgish history came from germany. but they had minorites in the white populace, white catholics like irish, white latinos like italians or blancos , white latinos who speak spanish , white africans usually from north africa, white asians, ala the japanese, chinese. 

Even the First peoples in the usa , commonly called the native americans, had first peoples from mexico especially out west as a minority and sometimes regional majority. 

But after the immigration act, something happened. 

All of a sudden whereas Garvey or Roberto clemente saw themselves as black in the usa, now Black jamaicans/Dominicans/Indians from india - black indians are called Kalo, in india the black people who are descended from the slave trade are the siddi, note two different names, though both the same skin/ they are of a particular community. Dont hate DOSers but for them they relate to the usa as the country that opened the door, not the country before the door opened. 

So many whites came in, white latinos from cuba/venezuela/mexico, more white asians from taiwan or indonesia or Siam's parts. Indians from india. Again, they don't hate Blacks, but they want to continue the white unity/blanco unity/I forget the indian word for whites in india, they want to continue that in the usa, 

And while this is happening you still have all the interacial marriages and mixed everything, from workplaces to residencies. 

 

So the point is, you are not pessimistic, you are being honest, the usa has though the immigration act, become whiter in some ways, BUT all the populaces including the white have become complicated. The simple confederate unity does not fly in the white populace anymore, the negro spiritual unity doesn't fly in the black populace anymore. 

 

Many white asian or white latino women share the same legacy of aid to the white man in the countries they immigrated from like the white woman who is anglo saxon protestant while in parallel, many of the black latino, black asian women share the same legacy of opposition to white power supporting black men in the countries they immigrated from like the black woman who is DOSer, ala the voting patterns. 

 

I think you hit the nail on the head, the usa is is circa two hundred and fifty years old, like all governments time application to human activity changes them usually more than anyone is ready for. And scrhumpt as a person raised in nyc comprehends a simple truth nyc teaches you, it is very messy getting to where nyc is today. NYC is the most multiracial city in humanity, not the most people, but the most multiracial set of peoples by all accounts: phenotype, religion, geography, language, everything, but NYC's civility wasn't simple. It wasn't we are all human done, no and that reality is what i think many in the usa who live outside nyc, don't comprehend. Aka Contrarian, when i hear people say, why can't some small white town in the south accept homosexuals. I am thinking the nypd used to beat homosexuals nearly to death back in the 1970s and some they did. Scrumpt himself as a failing real estate man tried to get the status of illegal immigrants to make it where they could be apid whatever offered with no contest in nyc and he had a lot of support. NYC has taken a long bloody road to get from Manahatta through new amsterdam to the collective civility it has today. it wasn't simple or straightforward, the law didn't do it. 

3 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

It amazes me that you guys still think Blacks have any power left to do or influence anything in America.

of course we do, all humans have power to influence change, the problem with the black populace in the usa, and definitely the DOS tribe is or tribes are  the lack of a defined goal. You want power, right but power to do what ? 

If i have a billion dollars right now that I can spend, taxes already paid, and I wish to spend it, spending it is decided in my mind,  what do I do is the question?  Many black people can't answer that question. and that is the problem. Saying i want to live happy isn't an answer. Saying i want to help the community isn't an answer. 

For example, a black republican in my view should say, i want to start a black business district.  pick a black city/town  and use the billion to buy the land the district will be on and start as many 100% black owned businesses as you can, no shareholding. 

Black christians in my view should say, i will pick one black church and i will give it money to buy the land of the church and then adjacent land and start businesses in that place, make residentials, make a school, Georgetwon university is based on a jesuit church, do likewise. black christians , if a hbcu is nearby a church that is even better. 

But the thing is a goal. It can't be, betterment, that isn't good enough. What is your plan? and if you don't have a plan, time's a wasting, figure one out. 

@ProfD +  @Pioneer1

5 hours ago, ProfD said:

AfroAmericans have been sub-divided by several factors including class, status, orientation, religious beliefs, politics, etc 

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

 

4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I wouldn't say Integration was the "beginning" of our sub-division, but it definitely accelerated it.

yes and I have to add, only because i think the following is one of the realities of the black populace in the usa that has never been grabbed. 

Black people, most free blacks, fought against the creation of the usa. And so what that means to me, and I really will like both of your thoughts on the historical precedence, is that the black populace has never been fractured in the usa, but the black populations, specifically DOSers,  heritage in the usa is to be tribal in itself. 

Do you comprehend where I am going Profd? You talk of positive debate, positive thinking. And when i think about it, i realize that black DOSers  in the usa have not talked positively about our past. I don't mean that we were enslaved, but I mean that we naturally group into camps, it is the heritage. And my reasoning why so many blacks DOSers do this is simply because our history to the usa is unlike any other.  a kind of collective peer pressure. 

Black Nigerians or Ethiopians , white russians or white ecuadorians, white koreans, talk about coming to the usa willingly with dreams, trying to build a community, But DOSers didn't come to the usa or the european colonies that preceded it willingly and we didn't stand together in support of the usa when it was founded. In fact most of us who were free, fought against the creation of the usa while a moajority of us who were enslaved ony had one idea of the usa and that exodus and that was no matter what happened, so black DOSers have always been tribal in the usa, the positive thing to say is it is Heritage, a thing we carry,  a tradition, a thing taught from generation to generation, we haven't taught. As Clarence Thomas said, everyone in he usa is immigrants. That isn't a lie, but to say that a black man whose father is a nigerian oil baron coming to the usa to harvard is the same as my forebear, of unknown name, at the bottom of the book who was the lucky ten percent to survive is... that is alie, and that is the culture, a thing grown, that i oppose, though to the aforementioned peer pressure i comprehend why some black DOSers like thomas embrace it . But for me it isn't fracturing, it is a heritage of tribalism i feel needs to be a tradition embraced. That is positve, what say you two?  

5 hours ago, ProfD said:

There are no charismatic AfroAmerican leaders folks are willing to follow. Pulpit pimps don't count.

 

Not just charismastic, may I add functional. Whe I look at Malcolm/ Fannie Lou Hamer / Powell jr /hampton  in the 1900s when i look at Garvey/Washington/Dubois /Wells in the 1800s yes all are charismatic but all also had a goal, no no te same goals, the heritage of tribalism, again lets embrace it, but definitive goal , not the vague black improvement speech that often many black people in leadership positions today speak of. Barack Obama never has a goal. He always speaks of improvement but never a goal. Booker T Washington did speak but he did start tuskegee. Garvey did speak but he did start businesses and paid for some black folks to leave the usa. Dubois did speak but he did start a newspaper speaking his views. Wells did speak but she did coral black women to support black men's vote weven though it meant black women couldn't. Fannie Lou Hamer did speak but she always had food drives for poor black homes in the deep south. Poell jr did speak but he did get white owned business in harlem to employ blacks. hampton did speak but he did make the rainbow coalition, the true one, which included white people in chicago. Malcolm did speak but he was the worker behind the nation of islam's infrastructure. 

So, yeah charisma, but please emphasize the best black leaders in the past didn't just talk, they acted, they did things. and many black leaders today are all talk and it even relates to the election. Cause Alexandra Ocasio Cortez who is a publcily proud latina, clearly didn't help kamala in the bronx. But in the same way, I don't know if either of you know but the bronx has the lowest turnouts in the city, the latino populace of the bronx has the lowest turnouts, less than one percent at times, but the why is simple, all talk. AOCs and others talk alot but no doing. So the people quit. Schrumpt says the economy is bad, which in the bronx it is clear, and kamala is saying the economy is rebounding or good... not in the bronx. 

5 hours ago, ProfD said:

Even if we cannot decide what's right and wrong the law will be a tie-breaker.

 

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

So if we want to restore a sense of moral and ethical unity among our people, we have to look at the laws on the books and seek to change them to our benefit and liking.

And this goes back to the historical heritage of tribalism, if blacks in the usa embrace said heritage positively, then it explains why no one moral code can be applied. And we have to resist the false notion of unity. I am lucky to have talked to my forebears ,of two generations and one generation behind me, most black people didn't approve of the black freedom movement. Most black people were good old church folk who wanted to keep their head to the ground and don't do any mess to "irritate" whitey. so that unity in the past is a lie. A tribe of black people fought for the 1960s and another tribe didn't. In my view the relationship between the tribes is civil mostly.  but the idea of what is right or wrong, which  in human history hasn't been eternally codified by anyone, is up in the air. I argue, the heritage of tribalism makes that desire of right or wrong in the village a dysfunctional goal. I argue it is more functional for black folk to embrace the tribes, not try to be part of every tribe but embrace them, as i always say, black elephants keep talking about the law alot and black money alot but amongst them i don't see the activity, i see they spend more time talking to black people in other tribes than doing better on their end. Black donkeys always talk about integration and equality and but amongst them i don't see the activity, i see they spend more time again, telling other tribes what to do. 

The preoccupation with telling other black tribes what to do has to stop, ... at least has to lessen, we are all human. 

If we each focus on gathering around likeminded blacks and focus on goals, and wish all other black tribes well:) i think it will be far more productive or functional. 

[Mel Hopkins]

On 11/16/2024 at 11:02 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Whether they understood it or not, I think most of her supporters simply "went with it" because they didn't have much of a choice.

Okay, so 74 million and counting of us "just went with Harris," but Donald's supporters were deliberate voters? Chile, please. 

Maybe you forgot that we also voted for the same ticket in the primaries because, wait for it, we believe in democracy!!! We voted to help those who needed the most help in this country, but now it seems those people are beyond help. 

Gee Whiz Pioneer. You sound like the MAGAts that spew this same rhetorical nonsense on social media sites. The funny thing about a lot of Democrats is they will be alright no matter how bad it gets here. If it gets too bad, we'll leave. Most of us have passports and global entry. So we have the know-how, and we can do it.

 

[Mel Hopkins]

On 11/16/2024 at 11:02 AM, Pioneer1 said:

but how CHARISMATIC you are and your ability to attract and electrify the masses.
The actual leadership in the U.S. picks and chooses the candidate they want to run based on THOSE qualifications.

Trump was simply more charismatic and commanded more respect than Kamala.

At last count, a little over 3 million votes separate them, and that's not by many votes since he'd been running for office since about 2014.

Seriously, in the grand scheme of things, she beat his ass if you compare the time they spent campaigning.  He got over 32 percent of the votes of registered voters, which isn't much since 36% of registered voters stayed home.  Therefore, it appears you've found this man charismatic - More than 60 % of us did not. So, democracy is the loser here.  

[Mel Hopkins]

1 hour ago, richardmurray said:

I never knew this, have you spoken about this in the forum? what position? I will like to read your thoughts on your time as a government agent.

I may have spoken about it indirectly, but I don't think I've gone into detail. Most of my political "opinions" are formed by my experience; I rarely discuss anything from a hypothetical situation.

[Pioneer1]

Mel
 

Quote

 

 If it gets too bad, we'll leave. Most of us have passports and global entry. 

 

 -"We'll leave" my ass...lol.

I'm not going and YOU'RE not either.

...FBA's (Foundational Black Americans) don't flee.

We aren't' running off and fleeing to go shelter ANYWHERE else.
We've been on this land for over 400 years.
This is OUR nation.
We're going to stay RIGHT HERE and deal with these Nazi bastids at every level from the Whitehouse to the streets.

Let THEM flee for a change.

Like mama used to say, you better take your ass back down there and FIGHT.
...talking about running off somewhere, lol.

Just like we got over George W. Bush and his regime, the nation will eventually get over this one...in time.
But meanwhile, WE as AfroAmericans need to get OUR act together and prepare ourselves for more political and economic power and stop relying on EITHER party to have our best interests in mind.

Like a career criminal in detention.
Sometimes punishment and time gives you a chance to sit down and THINK, where you went wrong so you can change course.


 

Quote

So, democracy is the loser here.  

There IS no Democracy in the United States.
Nor has it ever been.

It's a nation supposedly ruled by "elected" Oligarchs.

You don't really want a Democracy anyway.
In a TRUE Democracy, minorities would have little or no power except for what the majority grants them.

[ProfD]

5 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

It amazes me that you guys still think Blacks have any power left to do or influence anything in America. 

You're right...Black folks in America have no real power to leverage in a constructive and productive way. 

31 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

But meanwhile, WE as AfroAmericans need to get OUR act together and prepare ourselves for more political and economic power and stop relying on EITHER party to have our best interests in mind.

Hopefully, Black folks will learn from the last election that special and permanent interests motivate politicians. It's not about blind loyalty to a political party.

1 hour ago, richardmurray said:

of course we do, all humans have power to influence change, the problem with the black populace in the usa, and definitely the DOS tribe is or tribes are  the lack of a defined goal. You want power, right but power to do what ? 

 

Black people, most free blacks, fought against the creation of the usa. And so what that means to me, and I really will like both of your thoughts on the historical precedence, is that the black populace has never been fractured in the usa, but the black populations, specifically DOSers,  heritage in the usa is to be tribal in itself. 

Do you comprehend where I am going Profd?

 

But for me it isn't fracturing, it is a heritage of tribalism i feel needs to be a tradition embraced. That is positve, what say you two?  

 

And this goes back to the historical heritage of tribalism, if blacks in the usa embrace said heritage positively, then it explains why no one moral code can be applied. And we have to resist the false notion of unity.

 

The preoccupation with telling other black tribes what to do has to stop, ... at least has to lessen, we are all human. 

 

If we each focus on gathering around likeminded blacks and focus on goals, and wish all other black tribes well:) i think it will be far more productive or functional. 

I comprehend.  You're right...without unity within tribes and strategic alliances between them and establishing goals, Blacks folks are powerless and spinning their wheels. 

 

Point taken with regard to stop telling tribes what to do as well.  It's easy enough to retreat into cocoons and silos.  We already do it across cultures.  

 

The next 4 years will not adversely affect me in one way or another.  I can sit back in my easy chair with food, drinks and snacks as the circus rolls through town.

[aka Contrarian]

Thank you, Mel, for pointing  out some very significant things about the dynamics of the election. When it comes to waging a verbal war, I wanna be in the trenches with you!

 

The Bible says something about "reaping what you sow."  ( Unless  you're the orange teflon Don, I guess.)

Black folks still waitin' on Jesus to deliver them. Maybe he didn't get the memo.

I'm beginning to suspect God is a Republican, - or that Satan is at the wheel.   

 

[ProfD]

21 minutes ago, aka Contrarian said:

The Bible says something about "reaping what you sow."  ( Unless  you're the orange teflon Don, I guess.)

Black folks still waitin' on Jesus to deliver them. Maybe he didn't get the memo.

I'm beginning to suspect God is a Republican, - or that Satan is at the wheel.   

There's a strong possibility that none of the sky fairies exist. 

 

Maybe we live in a world of heaven and h8ll depending on one's circumstances.

[richardmurray]

@Mel Hopkins

if you ever do , at me in the post:)

@ProfD

glad you will be safe, regardless:) 

 

[Mel Hopkins]

On 11/17/2024 at 3:47 PM, Pioneer1 said:

YOU'RE not either.

 I will always leave foolishness. Also, my maternal ancestors didn't arrive here the same way many African Americans did. We don't even share the same mtDNA. So, it appears that leaving/fleeing is one of my ancestors' character traits. 

On 11/17/2024 at 5:26 PM, aka Contrarian said:

When it comes to waging a verbal war, I wanna be in the trenches with you!

Let's get 'em!   

[Troy]

On 11/17/2024 at 3:01 PM, Mel Hopkins said:

36% of registered voters stayed home.

 

That is an alarming, but unsurprising stat!  I also believe it is the result of part of a deliberate strategy.  I almost fell prey to this it back in 2016, bur @aka Contrarian talked some sense into me.

 

 

[Mel Hopkins]

26 minutes ago, Troy said:

I also believe it is the result of part of a deliberate strategy.  I almost fell prey to this it back in 2016, bur @aka Contrarian talked some sense into me.

I remember your post! Thank You @aka Contrarian !   I agree it is a strategy. It worked well in 2016. So, couple that with naive individuals registering to vote on E. Musk's website,  and here we are. No matter where I land, I'm going to vote. I flew all over the world as a flight attendant from 2008-2016 and never missed a vote. There is never a reason not to vote. I mean, a 100-year-old hanging by a thread, former President Jimmy Carter, voted in this last election! So eff those 36 percenters. 

[ProfD]

It would be helpful to know how the 36% of stay home voters breaks down between party affiliation (Democrat, Republican and Independent) and where they live. 

 

The electoral college will always determine the outcome.  Not the popular vote.

 

The Democratic party has at least 2 years to regroup the brand, groom a candidate and tweak messaging.  Maybe they will motivate the 36% to vote one way or another.

[richardmurray]

@ProfD

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

It would be helpful to know how the 36% of stay home voters breaks down between party affiliation (Democrat, Republican and Independent) and where they live. 

That is an excellent question because many assume with the 36% .  I remember in local news in nyc, how many people said they wouldn't vote, across phenotypical/gender/language or other racial categories. That to me is the point, investigative reporting is very expensive and  yields the least profitable result, prose anyone can copy and paste so it is rarely done but your question demands investigation. 

 

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

The electoral college will always determine the outcome.  Not the popular vote.

well yes as per the constitution. The electoral college is in the constitution itself so the only way to actually undo it would be an amendment. It is possible to get amendments passed but unlike acts in the congress or acts through the executive branch or court orders through the supreme court, amendments truly require the popular vote you are talking about. Remember, fr an amendment to pass you need three fifths of the states to vote year, an each state gives it vote, not by electoral college, but popular vote. And this is why few in government are interested in amendments cause that requires positive strong quality as elected officials to regale and very few of them exist in the usa government. 

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

The Democratic party has at least 2 years to regroup the brand, groom a candidate and tweak messaging.  Maybe they will motivate the 36% to vote one way or another.

I think both major parties are at a crossroads, the success of the elephants doesn't deny their own problems.

 

Major, major defined as party that won a presidency, Parties of Governance in the U.S.A.

 

• Independent
• Federalists alone [ first party from the founding fathers[[hamilton-immigrant via new york ]]: pro great britian/ industrialism/ federalism/ manufacturing/ us military support]
• Federalist vs Democratic-Republicans [commonly called republicans at the time, second party from the founding fathers[[jefferson-virginia+madison-virginia]]: pro france/agrarianism/decentralization/farming/republicanism ]
• Democratic-Republicans alone [ the federalist collapsed, I argue, the agrarian wealth of the southern states, wealthiest in the usa at the time + the ever growing agrarian immigrant populace, meant the urban/industrial /federal federalist were always doomed as the usa grows] 
• Whigs vs Democrats [Two parts of the Democratic-Republicans, commonly called republicans, split ; Whigs[[henry clay-kentucky]]: business owners/protestant/urban/anti expansion/pro legislative branch over executive branch/neutral on slavery/pro bank/lessen federal power/federal power legally applied to states  vs Democrats[[andrew jackson-carolinas , van buren-new york]]: farmer/rural/expansion/manifest destiny/executive power/pro slavery/anti bank/states rights over federal rights/ grow federal power ]
• Republicans vs Democrats [the whigs collapsed at the war between the states, their pro legislative stance couldn't survive the split in the legislature and the republicans were born the same time; Republicans [[ Lincoln-kentucky]] :  industry, manufacturing,urban,anti expanding slavery, individual civil liberties + equality, federal right to preserve the union ]
• The Republicans and Democrats shifted in the 1960s becoming less big tent parties. They both became narrower [Republicans shed individual rights, added christian fundamentalism; Democrats shed the rural or agrarian and added extreme pro immigration+ moral bureaucracy]
• Black elected officials grew in prominence in the Democratic party started a rainbow image of members. Ross Perot and others started to challenge the honesty of the Republican party to its base.
• Obama/Hillary CLinton/ Kamala Harris non white male candidates for president dominate Democratic Party recent history. Schrumpft develops a refomr like party inside the Republican party.

 

At the moment the Elephants have two sides: 

one side is Schrumpft acolytes/ anti imperial police/protectionism to the empire/states rights/free market fiscal capitalism absent 

the other side is War Hawks/international financing/maintaining government traditions

the Donkeys have two sides

one side is mass government projects/increase bureuacracy/federal powers to achieve moral or financial equality

the other side is extreme pro immigration/ extreme individual rights/ righteous military use/socialism financial implementations

 

Both of them have parts that do not fit together, no matter who wins or losses  the current elections that is true. The question is what will the parts do?

Success may keep the fiscal republicans with the Schrumpft but what will failure do?

How long can the socialist+ federalist+ rainbow coalition faction of the democrats stay with the fdr bureaucrats?

 

Both major , as defined by a president being elected from either, parties of governance in the usa is at a crossroad. 

 

[ProfD]

7 hours ago, richardmurray said:

I think both major parties are at a crossroads...

 

Both of them have parts that do not fit together, no matter who wins or losses...

Maybe so.  The GOP seems to do a better job of closing ranks and exerting their power when they're behind the wheel.  

[richardmurray]

@ProfD

even enough , time  will tell whether your assessment or mine is correct

[Pioneer1]

19 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

 

Let's get 'em!   

How can you go "get 'em"  if you've packed up, ran off, and LEFT the country???

Cynique is down in the trenches....while you're somewhere in the Bahamas at the beach staring at your cell phone and shaking your head at what's happening back in The States.....lol.

[Mel Hopkins]

On 12/5/2024 at 11:12 AM, ProfD said:

The electoral college will always determine the outcome.  Not the popular vote.

Exactly! But keep in mind President Biden won Georgia's electoral votes by a little over 11,000 popular votes.

[Mel Hopkins]

On 12/6/2024 at 4:47 AM, Pioneer1 said:

How can you go "get 'em"  if you've packed up, ran off, and LEFT the country???

Cynique is down in the trenches....while you're somewhere in the Bahamas at the beach staring at your cell phone and shaking your head at what's happening back in The States.....lol.

You may have missed the memo—after this last election, Black women declared they are caring for themselves and protecting each other. After 80% of Black men polled voted for VP Harris, we'll give them a plate, a place to rest, and nurturing while they are on the battlefield fighting for us. So, no matter where Cynique and I find ourselves, we will be caring for each other.  

[ProfD]

41 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Exactly! But keep in mind President Biden won Georgia's electoral votes by a little over 11,000 popular votes.

Sure.  The popular vote within most states is winner takes all i.e. electoral votes. 

 

Maine is one of the few states where electoral votes can be split. 

 

Otherwise, it takes a lot to flip those diehard blue and red states.

 

24 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

After 80% of Black men polled voted for VP Harris, we'll give them a plate, a place to rest, and nurturing while they are on the battlefield fighting for us.

 

That 80% of Black men voted for VP Harris as the lesser of two evils. Their vote was a referendum against POTUS OJ.

 

Now, if Black women choose to believe it was a form of solidarity, some brothas will take that plate and rest stop before moving on to their next destination.

[richardmurray]

@Mel Hopkins

7 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

You may have missed the memo—after this last election, Black women declared they are caring for themselves and protecting each other. After 80% of Black men polled voted for VP Harris, we'll give them a plate, a place to rest, and nurturing while they are on the battlefield fighting for us. So, no matter where Cynique and I find ourselves, we will be caring for each other.  

will you create art  , you can use synthography, for the #bwcwtub ?