Pioneer1 Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 According to some of you, high interest rates and these pay-day loan stores sprinkled around the ghetto are the causes of poverty in the AfroAmerican community and elsewhere. So by that logic..... We can go to a wealthy community, place a bunch of pay-day loan businesses on each block, get the banks and other lending institutions to charge high interest rates to their customers, sit back and wait and pretty soon THOSE wealthy communities will be impoverished too! Right? Since....as some of you claim...they are the CAUSES of poverty. Or on the reverse...... If we TAKE AWAY the predatory lending institutions in the hood and force the banks and other lending institutions to charge their low income customers ZERO interest on loans, then poverty will be ELIMINATED in short order. Right? This is called CIRCULAR LOGIC. Instead of looking at the REAL CAUSES of the problem, some of you are focusing on a SYMPTOM of the problem and labeling THAT the cause.
umbrarchist Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 I would be more inclined to say deepen poverty than cause poverty. .
frankster Posted March 5 Report Posted March 5 On 2/22/2025 at 4:55 AM, Pioneer1 said: According to some of you, high interest rates and these pay-day loan stores sprinkled around the ghetto are the causes of poverty in the AfroAmerican community and elsewhere. If By some of you....you mean Me....then you are either lying or don t understand what I was saying... I do not think i ever said payday loans were the cause of Poverty.. I do remember saying they were the main or had major impact on the collapse of Baltimore black Communities/societies. On 2/22/2025 at 4:55 AM, Pioneer1 said: So by that logic..... We can go to a wealthy community, place a bunch of pay-day loan businesses on each block, get the banks and other lending institutions to charge high interest rates to their customers, sit back and wait and pretty soon THOSE wealthy communities will be impoverished too! As Soon as the ill effects are seeing....policies will be put in place to alleviate and mitigate the situation. It will certainly not be label as financial irresposibility. When Crack Cocaine hit the Black Community it was Criminalize....Victims where further victimize with brutality and incarceration When the Opiate Crisis hit the white community it was Medicalize...Victims where hospitalize and care for. On 2/22/2025 at 4:55 AM, Pioneer1 said: Right? Since....as some of you claim...they are the CAUSES of poverty. I said African Americans started out in this Country.....from Poverty On 2/22/2025 at 4:55 AM, Pioneer1 said: Or on the reverse...... If we TAKE AWAY the predatory lending institutions in the hood and force the banks and other lending institutions to charge their low income customers ZERO interest on loans, then poverty will be ELIMINATED in short order. That would be a start... On 2/22/2025 at 4:55 AM, Pioneer1 said: Right? This is called CIRCULAR LOGIC. Instead of looking at the REAL CAUSES of the problem, some of you are focusing on a SYMPTOM of the problem and labeling THAT the cause. Racism is the real cause of Poverty in most Black Communities 1
Pioneer1 Posted March 6 Author Report Posted March 6 umbrarchist I would be more inclined to say deepen poverty than cause poverty. I agree. In many cases, they make things worse by increasing debt. But I wouldn't say it's the CAUSE of poverty. frankster I do remember saying they were the main or had major impact on the collapse of Baltimore black Communities/societies. When you say "collapse" of a community...what do you mean? Specifically, WHAT collapsed in those communities??? I said African Americans started out in this Country.....from Poverty I remember. And? Many STARTED in poverty but after a few generations, most worked their way into the Middle Classes...Working and Professional. But many WENT BACK into poverty because of poor decision making like drug use and criminal/gangsta behavior. Trying to keep up with their drug addictions or not being able to find jobs after felony convictions and incarceration can quickly lead to poverty and destitution. Again, we can't blame all or even most of the poverty in Black America today on the legacy of Slavery. It's like trying to blame today's broken families as a legacy of Slavery....which isn't true either. Too many come from solid middle class and even wealthy families and made poor decisions that landed them into poverty. Racism is the real cause of Poverty in most Black Communities For the most part, yes. The de-industrialization of most urban centers where the manufacturing jobs were removed making it harder to get jobs that pay a good wage certainly led to an increase in poverty in many Black American communities. But I still will not let "poor decision making" off the hook. Proper decision making is one of the weapons we can use TO defeat racism. Like Brutha Baines said in the Malcolm X movie: "Leave the White man's poisons alone. His dope. His liquor His women. His pork Stop putting that poison in your hair." ......lol. If you just make THOSE personal decisions alone. If you just do THAT, you've made strides in the war against racism!
frankster Posted March 6 Report Posted March 6 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster I do remember saying they were the main or had major impact on the collapse of Baltimore black Communities/societies. When you say "collapse" of a community...what do you mean? Specifically, WHAT collapsed in those communities??? The financial infrastructure....The tax base - loss of home ownership and residents income . The families. 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I said African Americans started out in this Country.....from Poverty I remember. And? Many STARTED in poverty but after a few generations, most worked their way into the Middle Classes...Working and Professional. But many WENT BACK into poverty because of poor decision making like drug use and criminal/gangsta behavior. They were kept in poverty by Redlining and Banking Discrimination 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Trying to keep up with their drug addictions or not being able to find jobs after felony convictions and incarceration can quickly lead to poverty and destitution. Again, we can't blame all or even most of the poverty in Black America today on the legacy of Slavery. It's like trying to blame today's broken families as a legacy of Slavery....which isn't true either. Check out Joy Degruy Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome....Trauma is Biological and past on - through famailia habits Modeling and traditions. here is a clip Here's how 339 years of slavery affects us today with Dr. Joy DeGruy | Vault Empowers Talks 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Too many come from solid middle class and even wealthy families and made poor decisions that landed them into poverty. The exception of a few proves the rule 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Racism is the real cause of Poverty in most Black Communities For the most part, yes. The de-industrialization of most urban centers where the manufacturing jobs were removed making it harder to get jobs that pay a good wage certainly led to an increase in poverty in many Black American communities. That is where the attention needs to be...dismantling Racism 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: But I still will not let "poor decision making" off the hook. Proper decision making is one of the weapons we can use TO defeat racism. It plays a minor role as seen by the numbers who fail vs the numbers who succeed. 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Like Brutha Baines said in the Malcolm X movie: "Leave the White man's poisons alone. His dope. His liquor His women. His pork Stop putting that poison in your hair." ......lol. Talk about irrelevant.... 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If you just make THOSE personal decisions alone. If you just do THAT, you've made strides in the war against racism! Thats like saying....The enslave who bought his freedom then turn around a enslave others.
Delano Posted March 6 Report Posted March 6 Being financially illiterate is probably the biggest factor next to systemic inequalities. 1
Pioneer1 Posted March 8 Author Report Posted March 8 frankster The financial infrastructure....The tax base - loss of home ownership and residents income . So you're maintaining that you DIDN'T say that high interest rates and predatory lending institutions are the cause of poverty in many Black communities; but you're saying that they DID lead to a "financial infrastructure collapse". ...is my understanding correct? They were kept in poverty by Redlining and Banking Discrimination SOME were kept in poverty. Some got out of poverty through self-employment, relocating to greener pastures outside of the Deep South where they built all Black towns. This lasted through out the Reconstruction period. During the early 20th Century industrialization period in the U.S a lot of Black families GOT OUT OF POVERTY by going up North and out West to work manufacturing jobs which paid a good wage and provided a decent living. Check out Joy Degruy Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome....Trauma is Biological and past on - through famailia habits Modeling and traditions. here is a clip Why? The exception of a few proves the rule These aren't "exceptions". MILLIONS of Black Americans were solidly in the Middle Classes by the mid-20th century. That is where the attention needs to be...dismantling Racism This may sound like a shocker to some. Probably not to YOU coming from ME because of how you probably perceive me already...lol. You already accused me of being a "wigger" pretending to be Black or something like that, so..... Anyway, I don't think we as AfroAmericans SHOULD focus on "dismantling Racism". It's a problem, and anti-Black racism SHOULD be dismantled. I just don't think we as a group should FOCUS on that. It {decisions} plays a minor role as seen by the numbers who fail vs the numbers who succeed. Actually, if the truth be told....the decisions we as a people make could actually make us FAR more Successful than we are and racism wouldn't even be a factor. Infact, the ONLY racism we'd see is the JEALOUSY of Whites and others who see us Prospering and can't do a damn thing about it. @ProfD mentioned the Fruit of Islam (FOI) training in another thread. When you're getting TRUE manhood training, one of the FIRST things you learn is that your success...or lack of it....is YOUR responsibility. Both your successes and failures are YOUR responsibility to deal with and YOU are responsible for making the best decisions to deal with them. They may not be your FAULT. Meaning, you didn't INITIATE or CAUSE them. But it's your RESPONSIBILITY to rectify the situation you find yourself in instead of waiting on your OPEN ENEMY to "be nice" and stop being racist so that you can be more prosperous. Delano Being financially illiterate is probably the biggest factor next to systemic inequalities. I'm not going to "rank" it, but I agree that being financially ignorant is a HUGE problem.
Troy Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 I have an MBA and I've done stupid things when it comes to money, so it not about literacy. It is about a system that is designed to exploit people -- especially Black people historically. The reality is that the system is rigged against everyone -- even white folks, which is why Trump appeals to these people. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer is axiomatic. Our system will crumble...indeed is crumbling. It is inevitable. I hate to sound so pessimistic; I can only hope that country can hang on long enough so that my children have a decent life.
frankster Posted March 9 Report Posted March 9 On 3/7/2025 at 7:03 PM, Pioneer1 said: frankster The financial infrastructure....The tax base - loss of home ownership and residents income . So you're maintaining that you DIDN'T say that high interest rates and predatory lending institutions are the cause of poverty in many Black communities; but you're saying that they DID lead to a "financial infrastructure collapse". ...is my understanding correct? They are a major factor....especially in Baltimore. - thats what I am saying and said. On 3/7/2025 at 7:03 PM, Pioneer1 said: They were kept in poverty by Redlining and Banking Discrimination SOME were kept in poverty. Some got out of poverty through self-employment, relocating to greener pastures outside of the Deep South where they built all Black towns. This lasted through out the Reconstruction period. Most of them were destroyed... On 3/7/2025 at 7:03 PM, Pioneer1 said: During the early 20th Century industrialization period in the U.S a lot of Black families GOT OUT OF POVERTY by going up North and out West to work manufacturing jobs which paid a good wage and provided a decent living. They moved out of shanty towns down south..... into slums up north - sure its an improvement but certainly not one that takes you out of poverty When comparing those that "Got out." to those that remain trapped.....the vast majority remained trapped On 3/7/2025 at 7:03 PM, Pioneer1 said: Check out Joy Degruy Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome....Trauma is Biological and past on - through famailia habits Modeling and traditions. here is a clip Why? To show how 300 yrs of slavery still affects blacks today On 3/7/2025 at 7:03 PM, Pioneer1 said: The exception of a few proves the rule These aren't "exceptions". MILLIONS of Black Americans were solidly in the Middle Classes by the mid-20th century. Before the Civil rights movement few individuals made it ....the exceptions Millions Yes.....due mainly to the Civil Rights Movement success of implementing new political policies. With all that less than 10 percent of African American makes over $100,000. then or today On 3/7/2025 at 7:03 PM, Pioneer1 said: That is where the attention needs to be...dismantling Racism This may sound like a shocker to some. Probably not to YOU coming from ME because of how you probably perceive me already...lol. You already accused me of being a "wigger" pretending to be Black or something like that, so..... Anyway, I don't think we as AfroAmericans SHOULD focus on "dismantling Racism". It's a problem, and anti-Black racism SHOULD be dismantled. I just don't think we as a group should FOCUS on that. We dismantled racism like how MLKjr did it.....by exerting our freedom in unison. On 3/7/2025 at 7:03 PM, Pioneer1 said: It {decisions} plays a minor role as seen by the numbers who fail vs the numbers who succeed. Actually, if the truth be told....the decisions we as a people make could actually make us FAR more Successful than we are and racism wouldn't even be a factor. Infact, the ONLY racism we'd see is the JEALOUSY of Whites and others who see us Prospering and can't do a damn thing about it "we as a people" .....So we are moving from personal decision to political decisions and of course they overlap. Political Decision making includes a whole lot of organizational work and since that is what you are now talking about then...Yes Your personal decisiom may if lucky save you..... Whole community of individuals making personal decisions will not save them when they are being politically targeted.
Pioneer1 Posted March 9 Author Report Posted March 9 frankster If you're saying that high interest rates and predatory lending institutions lead to the COLLAPSE of the financial infrastructure of Black communities; then you're saying that they ARE the cause of poverty in Black communities. A collapse of the financial infrastructure leads TO poverty. What other outcome is there if the economy or financial infrastructure of a given community collapses???? Most of them were destroyed... Some were destroyed, others were abandoned...especially by those who decided to "integrate" into White communities instead of staying separate and building their own. They moved out of shanty towns down south..... into slums up north - sure its an improvement but certainly not one that takes you out of poverty When comparing those that "Got out." to those that remain trapped.....the vast majority remained trapped In many cases. But in other cases, as I said....they got good manufacturing and in some cases professional jobs that affording them a decent Middle Class standard of living with nice houses, cars, and financial security. Living in overcrowded slums and projects isn't the story for the VAST majority of Black Americans up North. To show how 300 yrs of slavery still affects blacks today But I already know that it does. See, this is what I meant in the other thread about you crowding out the conversations with a lot of unnecessary and unrelated information that doesn't prove your point or disprove mine. Millions Yes.....due mainly to the Civil Rights Movement success of implementing new political policies. With all that less than 10 percent of African American makes over $100,000. then or today Being part of the Middle Classes isn't necessarily about how much ACTUAL money you make as much as it's your lifestyle and what you are able to afford, your education, as well as the WORTH of the money you're making at any given period. Back in the 40s, the average Black man working in Detroit or Chicago in a factory lived a GOOD Lower Middle Class life with a house, able to support his family, and in some cases even had a car. We dismantled racism like how MLKjr did it.....by exerting our freedom in unison. MLK didn't dismantle racism. "we as a people" .....So we are moving from personal decision to political decisions and of course they overlap. Political Decision making includes a whole lot of organizational work and since that is what you are now talking about then...Yes The collective often affects the individual. If "we as a people" decide to stop supporting or even tolerating dysfunctionality in our community then more and more individuals will stop engaging in it. As I said before, part of learning proper manhood is recognizing that your success if YOUR responsibility. This applies to the collective as well. As a group we can sit around waiting on Superman to swoop down and save us, meanwhile Trump gets elected and is in office while we're still looking up and waiting.....or we can collectively DECIDE to focus and concentrate on rebuilding our communities, providing jobs for ourselves, growing our own foods, and.... Since Trump is trying to dismantle the Department of Education ...see this as an opportunity to build and design our own educational curriculum for our children! Whole community of individuals making personal decisions will not save them when they are being politically targeted. So why don't THEY turn the tables and start targeting THOSE who are targeting THEM?
frankster Posted March 9 Report Posted March 9 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster If you're saying that high interest rates and predatory lending institutions lead to the COLLAPSE of the financial infrastructure of Black communities; then you're saying that they ARE the cause of poverty in Black communities. A collapse of the financial infrastructure leads TO poverty. What other outcome is there if the economy or financial infrastructure of a given community collapses???? Yes...major contributing factor 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Most of them were destroyed... Some were destroyed, others were abandoned...especially by those who decided to "integrate" into White communities instead of staying separate and building their own. Yes...most were destroyed. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: They moved out of shanty towns down south..... into slums up north - sure its an improvement but certainly not one that takes you out of poverty When comparing those that "Got out." to those that remain trapped.....the vast majority remained trapped In many cases. But in other cases, as I said....they got good manufacturing and in some cases professional jobs that affording them a decent Middle Class standard of living with nice houses, cars, and financial security. Living in overcrowded slums and projects isn't the story for the VAST majority of Black Americans up North. in most cases. Some got good jobs...few got good paying jobs Prior to MLKjr the Black Middle class was below 1%...today the black middle class is around 30% 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: To show how 300 yrs of slavery still affects blacks today But I already know that it does. See, this is what I meant in the other thread about you crowding out the conversations with a lot of unnecessary and unrelated information that doesn't prove your point or disprove mine. Then why did you state the following I quote: "Again, we can't blame all or even most of the poverty in Black America today on the legacy of Slavery. It's like trying to blame today's broken families as a legacy of Slavery....which isn't true either." I think it is very relevant based on your above statement 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Millions Yes.....due mainly to the Civil Rights Movement success of implementing new political policies. With all that less than 10 percent of African American makes over $100,000. then or today Being part of the Middle Classes isn't necessarily about how much ACTUAL money you make as much as it's your lifestyle and what you are able to afford, your education, as well as the WORTH of the money you're making at any given period. That is true....but to keep to from become too subjective it is best to go with income threshold. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Back in the 40s, the average Black man working in Detroit or Chicago in a factory lived a GOOD Lower Middle Class life with a house, able to support his family, and in some cases even had a car. Not true...most were the working poor class.... They knew how to make do with less... 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: We dismantled racism like how MLKjr did it.....by exerting our freedom in unison. MLK didn't dismantle racism. True....but he did dismantle overt business(de jure) as usually racism in most parts of America 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: "we as a people" .....So we are moving from personal decision to political decisions and of course they overlap. Political Decision making includes a whole lot of organizational work and since that is what you are now talking about then...Yes The collective often affects the individual. If "we as a people" decide to stop supporting or even tolerating dysfunctionality in our community then more and more individuals will stop engaging in it. Yes We as a people will then have to address the cause - racism.....Not the effects dysfunction 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: As I said before, part of learning proper manhood is recognizing that your success if YOUR responsibility. True 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: This applies to the collective as well. As a group we can sit around waiting on Superman to swoop down and save us, meanwhile Trump gets elected and is in office while we're still looking up and waiting.....or we can collectively DECIDE to focus and concentrate on rebuilding our communities, providing jobs for ourselves, growing our own foods, and.... When you have been studied targeted and oppressed....creating a collective will be a challenge well worth fighting for. But remember they will come and try to destroy it by criminalizing all who participate in it as well as labeling them hate mongers. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Since Trump is trying to dismantle the Department of Education ...see this as an opportunity to build and design our own educational curriculum for our children! Great Idea.. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Whole community of individuals making personal decisions will not save them when they are being politically targeted. So why don't THEY turn the tables and start targeting THOSE who are targeting THEM? Often their hands and or face are hidden and are powerful and have even more powerful friends and associates. Having said that they are not above challenging....MLKjr succeeded against them.
Pioneer1 Posted March 9 Author Report Posted March 9 frankster Prior to MLKjr the Black Middle class was below 1%...today the black middle class is around 30% I'm not sure about those figures, but I will say that things HAVE improved for our people FINANCIALLY since MLK's work. However moral/ethically and socially....that's another story, lol. Then why did you state the following I quote: "Again, we can't blame all or even most of the poverty in Black America today on the legacy of Slavery. It's like trying to blame today's broken families as a legacy of Slavery....which isn't true either." __________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Because they're TRUE (both statements). I assert that we CAN'T blame all or even most of the poverty in the AfroAmerican community today on Slavery. How is you telling me that Slavery still affect us today (which I agree with) and posting videos to prove it...how does that contradict my assertion? We have: 1 Point: Slavery still affects us today 2 Point: We can't blame all or most Black poverty on Slavery 2 different points that don't necessarily contradict eachother. Not true...most were the working poor class.... They knew how to make do with less... While I agree that they knew how to make do with less, I'm not sure if I'd agree that most of these factory workers should be considered poor. They are definitely lower middle class....traditionally known as Working Class. But I wouldn't call them "poor". True....but he did dismantle overt business(de jure) as usually racism in most parts of America He helped do it, and we thank him immensely for that. Yes We as a people will then have to address the cause - racism.....Not the effects dysfunction EXACTLY! The more excuses and "symptoms" you remove or ignore, the closer you get to the root of the problem. If you dig far enough...you'll actually find out that Racism itself isn't actually the Black man's biggest problem! Because if his biggest problem was solved, the racism coming from White folks would be a non issue and in many cases would cease to exist. ...if his BIGGEST problem was solved, lol. Here's a man angry at women. -He says they ignore him. -He says they talk crazy to him when they DO speak to him. -He says he can't get any sex -He says modern women don't want to submit. -He says he can't even get a date. *But he's flat broke with no job, no car, and no money. All of those other problems are caused by his BIGGEST problem, lol. If he solved his BIGGEST problems, all of the other problems would melt away...lol. When you have been studied targeted and oppressed....creating a collective will be a challenge well worth fighting for. But remember they will come and try to destroy it by criminalizing all who participate in it as well as labeling them hate mongers Perhaps then they focus should be more INDIRECT. Instead of forming groups to challenge The System. Form groups to work WITH IN The System to gain economic prosperity without threatening it. In other words..... Don't form a Black Panther organization to dismantle racism. Organize and establish a chain of coffee shops around the country to make money and leave a legacy....inside the system.
frankster Posted March 10 Report Posted March 10 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Prior to MLKjr the Black Middle class was below 1%...today the black middle class is around 30% I'm not sure about those figures, but I will say that things HAVE improved for our people FINANCIALLY since MLK's work. However moral/ethically and socially....that's another story, lol. Yeah check it out 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Then why did you state the following I quote: "Again, we can't blame all or even most of the poverty in Black America today on the legacy of Slavery. It's like trying to blame today's broken families as a legacy of Slavery....which isn't true either." __________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Because they're TRUE (both statements). It seems you not reading what you actually typed 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I assert that we CAN'T blame all or even most of the poverty in the AfroAmerican community today on Slavery. why not....300 hundred years of stolen wages... I am sure if your employer stole 3hrs of your labor you would want it and most likely feel its lost...come payday 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: How is you telling me that Slavery still affect us today (which I agree with) and posting videos to prove it...how does that contradict my assertion? Your Asserttion in the quote above is that "slavery cannot be blamed for current day black poverty" My video shows the connection and proves that the enslavement of Africans has a direct bearing and connection to current day black poverty. 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: We have: 1 Point: Slavery still affects us today I say yes. What do you say....yes or no 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: 2 Point: We can't blame all or most Black poverty on Slavery I say we can blame most if not all what say you....All or most or none 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: 2 different points that don't necessarily contradict eachother. Maybe you need to watch the video again....from the time stamp 5;00 minute mark....the trauma of enslavement leads to dysfunction which leads to maladaptation to racism which contributes to poverty. Maybe the following two video may help you The Wealth Gap of Black Americans | The Cost of Inheritance: An America ReFramed Special | Clip The Work: The history and devastation of poverty on Black Americans 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Not true...most were the working poor class.... They knew how to make do with less... While I agree that they knew how to make do with less, I'm not sure if I'd agree that most of these factory workers should be considered poor. They are definitely lower middle class....traditionally known as Working Class. But I wouldn't call them "poor". White factory workers were working class....black factory workers were working poor - you think they got the same amount of pay? 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: True....but he did dismantle overt business(de jure) as usually racism in most parts of America He helped do it, and we thank him immensely for that. True 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes We as a people will then have to address the cause - racism.....Not the effects dysfunction EXACTLY! The more excuses and "symptoms" you remove or ignore, the closer you get to the root of the problem. If you dig far enough...you'll actually find out that Racism itself isn't actually the Black man's biggest problem! Because if his biggest problem was solved, the racism coming from White folks would be a non issue and in many cases would cease to exist. ...if his BIGGEST problem was solved, lol. Here's a man angry at women. -He says they ignore him. -He says they talk crazy to him when they DO speak to him. -He says he can't get any sex -He says modern women don't want to submit. -He says he can't even get a date. *But he's flat broke with no job, no car, and no money. All of those other problems are caused by his BIGGEST problem, lol. If he solved his BIGGEST problems, all of the other problems would melt away...lol. Racism is the main cause of black poverty.....It is not our biggest problem Working together...Achieving Functional Unity - Is 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: When you have been studied targeted and oppressed....creating a collective will be a challenge well worth fighting for. But remember they will come and try to destroy it by criminalizing all who participate in it as well as labeling them hate mongers Perhaps then they focus should be more INDIRECT. Instead of forming groups to challenge The System. Form groups to work WITH IN The System to gain economic prosperity without threatening it. That is what most black politicians are trying to do....but politics is in itself is very corrupting - Adam Claytom Powell was the best that did it and Obama manage to secure the highest office. 8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: In other words..... Don't form a Black Panther organization to dismantle racism. Organize and establish a chain of coffee shops around the country to make money and leave a legacy....inside the system. Margus Garvey and Booker T Washington both promoted freedom thruogh economic and educational success The Jews did that in Germany....the nazi's cook them all all in all it is a goal i would stand behind and support
Pioneer1 Posted March 10 Author Report Posted March 10 frankster It seems you not reading what you actually typed Why do you say that? why not....300 hundred years of stolen wages... True. I am sure if your employer stole 3hrs of your labor you would want it and most likely feel its lost...come payday True again. Now, how does that fact explain how the poverty most AfroAmericans experience today can be traced back to Slavery? You don't think the mass incarceration has a greater impact- You don't think drugs (both the selling and use) has a greater impact- You don't think so many families without adult men in the household has a greater impact- ...on the poverty rates in Black America, than Slavery did? My video shows the connection and proves that the enslavement of Africans has a direct bearing and connection to current day black poverty. See, this is the problem.....you don't pay attention to detail. Nobody denies the CONNECTION between Slavery and poverty in the Black community. I'm saying that Slavery didn't CAUSE most of the poverty in the Black community. There's a difference. I say yes. What do you say....yes or no I agree, yes it still affects our community. I say we can blame most if not all what say you....All or most or none The Black poverty of TODAY? None of thee above. You left out "some". Which I would agree with. White factory workers were working class....black factory workers were working poor - you think they got the same amount of pay? If they were unionized they did. Racism is the main cause of black poverty.....It is not our biggest problem Working together...Achieving Functional Unity - Is I agree that Racism...direct and indirect...is the main cause of Black poverty. I also believe that working together is ONE of our biggest problems. Not THEE biggest...but certainly one of them. Margus Garvey and Booker T Washington both promoted freedom thruogh economic and educational success The Jews did that in Germany....the nazi's cook them all They didn't get ALL of them. Jews got an entire nation out of it called Israel which is being backed by the most powerful nation on the planet. Despite the current political turmoil, I truly believe that AfroAmericans are in one of the best positions of any group of Black people on the planet. I won't say THE best, because I haven't traveled the Earth enough to justify that statement. However I believe that despite her problems, America is certainly ONE of the best places for Black people to live. We should take advantage of our positions.
ProfD Posted March 11 Report Posted March 11 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: They didn't get ALL of them. Jews got an entire nation out of it called Israel which is being backed by the most powerful nation on the planet. The Jews lost 6 million during the Holocaust. They have been receiving billions of dollars reparations since 1948. That's plenty scratch especially with compounded interest for nation-building. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Despite the current political turmoil, I truly believe that AfroAmericans are in one of the best positions of any group of Black people on the planet. However I believe that despite her problems, America is certainly ONE of the best places for Black people to live. We should take advantage of our positions. As brotha @richardmurray points out, Black folks consist of many tribes. Many individuals are doing extremely well for themselves. 1
frankster Posted March 11 Report Posted March 11 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster It seems you not reading what you actually typed Why do you say that? Below is the contradiction I see... I quote: "Again, we can't blame all or even most of the poverty in Black America today on the legacy of Slavery. It's like trying to blame today's broken families as a legacy of Slavery....which isn't true either." I assert that we CAN'T blame all or even most of the poverty in the AfroAmerican community today on Slavery. How is you telling me that Slavery still affect us today (which I agree with) and posting videos to prove it...how does that contradict my assertion? Slavers routinely sold family members and had breeding farms.....direct connectionto todays broken families 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: why not....300 hundred years of stolen wages... True. cool 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I am sure if your employer stole 3hrs of your labor you would want it and most likely feel its lost...come payday True again. Now, how does that fact explain how the poverty most AfroAmericans experience today can be traced back to Slavery? No generational wealth to pass on - Legacy Lost 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You don't think the mass incarceration has a greater impact- You don't think drugs (both the selling and use) has a greater impact- You don't think so many families without adult men in the household has a greater impact- ...on the poverty rates in Black America, than Slavery did? No...not a greater impact because they are part of the consequencies of lost of Birthright Inheritance and continued Oppression 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: My video shows the connection and proves that the enslavement of Africans has a direct bearing and connection to current day black poverty. See, this is the problem.....you don't pay attention to detail. Nobody denies the CONNECTION between Slavery and poverty in the Black community. I'm saying that Slavery didn't CAUSE most of the poverty in the Black community. There's a difference. I am saying Slavery and its consequences caused most if not all the poverty in the Black Community. 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I say yes. What do you say....yes or no I agree, yes it still affects our community. cool 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I say we can blame most if not all what say you....All or most or none The Black poverty of TODAY? None of thee above. You left out "some". Which I would agree with. By some do you mean less than most?? 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: White factory workers were working class....black factory workers were working poor - you think they got the same amount of pay? If they were unionized they did. Most Unions did not allow black Americans as members....until Civil Rights Movement - the exception being can anybody say "George". 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Racism is the main cause of black poverty.....It is not our biggest problem Working together...Achieving Functional Unity - Is I agree that Racism...direct and indirect...is the main cause of Black poverty. I also believe that working together is ONE of our biggest problems. Not THEE biggest...but certainly one of them. If not then what is?? 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Margus Garvey and Booker T Washington both promoted freedom thruogh economic and educational success The Jews did that in Germany....the nazi's cook them all They didn't get ALL of them. True 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Jews got an entire nation out of it called Israel which is being backed by the most powerful nation on the planet. Despite the current political turmoil, I truly believe that AfroAmericans are in one of the best positions of any group of Black people on the planet. I won't say THE best, because I haven't traveled the Earth enough to justify that statement. However I believe that despite her problems, America is certainly ONE of the best places for Black people to live. We should take advantage of our positions. We Were in the best position for years especially so in the 60's70's 8o's 90's and 10's That was true from the 1960's to the early 2000's.....that is now beginning to change and rapidly so
Pioneer1 Posted March 11 Author Report Posted March 11 frankster Quote Below is the contradiction I see... I quote: "Again, we can't blame all or even most of the poverty in Black America today on the legacy of Slavery. It's like trying to blame today's broken families as a legacy of Slavery....which isn't true either." I assert that we CAN'T blame all or even most of the poverty in the AfroAmerican community today on Slavery. How is you telling me that Slavery still affect us today (which I agree with) and posting videos to prove it...how does that contradict my assertion? Slavers routinely sold family members and had breeding farms.....direct connectionto todays broken families." Ok..let's take this slooooow, lol. I'm going to provide you with a more DETAILED explanation of those quotes so that you can properly COMPREHEND what I'm saying and hopefully you won't still see a contradiction. Read my first quote carefully. We can't blame ALL or MOST (though we can indeed blame some) of the poverty in the AfroAmerican community TODAY (not the distant past like Reconstruction or even the early 20th century...I'm talking about this current period.) on Slavery. We simply can't. Not only is Slavery too far distant to accurately make that assessment, but most AfroAmericans eventually made it OUT of poverty by the 1980s. Further, most of the poverty AfroAmericans experienced in the late 1800s and much of the 1900s was because of illiteracy and direct racial discrimination. By 1970s, although it was still a problem as it is today....illiteracy declined rapidly for much of Black America and although work place discrimination was real, most AfroAmericans were able to get jobs...even low wage jobs...that lifted them OUT of poverty. Especially with 2 people working. I said, "...you telling me that Slavery still affect us today (which I agree with)" It's true. Slavery DOES affect us today. It affects our beauty standards. It affects our work ethic. It affects or religious life. If affects our diet. Slavery STILL has a profound impact on us as AfroAmericans today, I totally agree. I just don't believe it's the MAIN cause of Poverty. 2 things led to the increase in Black poverty after the 1960s and neither came from the legacy of Slavery: 1. Drugs 2. Broken families. Both are direct and indirect products of SYSTEMIC RACISM designed to destabilize the Black community....yes...but they aren't a "legacy of Slavery". And before you even try it....DON'T EVEN TRY IT. Systemic Racism is NOT a Legacy of Slavery because it PRODUCED Slavery; not only in the Americas but through out Northern Africa and the Middle East. -The TransAtlantic slave trade was ONE aspect of Systemic Racism. -Drugs being brought into the community to destabilize it was ANOTHER aspect of Systemic Racism. -Broke Families as a result of feminism, the anti-male Welfares system, and living in a sexually liberated society where birth control is purposely limited and the masses are kept sexually ignorant is arguably ANOTHER aspect of Systemic Racism. Do you understand a little better? Do you still see a contradiction as to how I can believe Slavery does AFFECT us but is not the MAIN cause of the poverty in our community today? No generational wealth to pass on - Legacy Lost What do you mean "no generational wealth"???? 1.Many if not most AfroAmericans had LAND in their possession during and right after Reconstruction; but most of them SOLD that land to White folks and moved up North and out West because they were trying to get away from the South. 2. Even today, so many AfroAmericans come from good solid Middle Class families where their parents were doctors, lawyers, professors, teachers and other professions that paid well but THEY decided to go "gangsta" and ended up on drugs and with criminal records and lost much of the wealth their parents worked hard to earn. I am saying Slavery and its consequences caused most if not all the poverty in the Black Community. Then you should stop saying that..... Because it's wrong. By some do you mean less than most?? By "some" I mean less than half. If not then what is?? Ignorance That was true from the 1960's to the early 2000's.....that is now beginning to change and rapidly so I told you, one of the main culprits responsible for the modern poverty in AfroAmerica were the drugs. Now the NEW drug they're pushing on the community and even legalized it to get most of the youth addicted....is that fake ass weed. It's not REAL natural weed, but weed with genetically enhanced THC levels and it's making many of it's users overly emotional and psychotic.
ProfD Posted March 12 Report Posted March 12 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: No generational wealth to pass on - Legacy Lost What do you mean "no generational wealth"???? 300+ years of free labor provides no generational wealth. Coming up with a number including compounded interest would be trillions of dollars. 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: 1.Many if not most AfroAmericans had LAND in their possession during and right after Reconstruction.. Land is worthless if it is not developed and/or used to produce goods. Plenty Black folks will say their family has land down south. Ask what they're doing with it. Wait for the answer. Don't interrupt. Crickets. 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: 2. Even today, so many AfroAmericans come from good solid Middle Class families where their parents were doctors, lawyers, professors, teachers and other professions that paid well... Middle class workers aren't wealthy unless they have solid investments.
Pioneer1 Posted March 12 Author Report Posted March 12 ProfD Land is worthless if it is not developed and/or used to produce goods. Owning land is ALWAYS a good thing. Whether or not you cultivate it, most land is good just for the MINERALS ALONE. Even if you don't do anything with the top soil, keep the MINERAL RIGHTS to the land so that if there's oil or gas underneath you can get something for that! Plenty Black folks will say their family has land down south. Ask what they're doing with it. Wait for the answer. Don't interrupt. Crickets I don't have to ask or wait, I KNOW what most of them are doing with it. If they still got it.....lol Middle class workers aren't wealthy unless they have solid investments. It may not be "wealthy" but it's a lot better position than being locked up in prison, homeless, or on drugs which is where a lot of their children ended up after fucking up their lives with drugs and criminal activity. Being a doctor, lawyer, or professor often LEADS to opportunities to attract more wealth because of the type of people you often deal with...especially as clients. If...as a lawyer...you successfully keep a billionaire out of prison, you don't think he'll hook you up with some solid business advice or investments that will lead to greater wealth? If....as a doctor...one of your clients is a multi-billionaire and is always inviting you and your family to go to vacation with his, you don't think that's going to eventually lead to YOU becoming rich by proxy? Like I said, so many of our people got out of poverty by becoming professionals...but the "street life" was so attractive to their children than they ended up fucking up what their parents struggled for.
frankster Posted March 12 Report Posted March 12 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Ok..let's take this slooooow, lol. I'm going to provide you with a more DETAILED explanation of those quotes so that you can properly COMPREHEND what I'm saying and hopefully you won't still see a contradiction. Read my first quote carefully. We can't blame ALL or MOST (though we can indeed blame some) of the poverty in the AfroAmerican community TODAY (not the distant past like Reconstruction or even the early 20th century...I'm talking about this current period.) on Slavery. We simply can't. So are you saying that the Civil Rights Movement ...of 70yrs ago unlinked 300 yrs of EnSlavement??? I do not think so 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Not only is Slavery too far distant to accurately make that assessment, but most AfroAmericans eventually made it OUT of poverty by the 1980s. Further, most of the poverty AfroAmericans experienced in the late 1800s and much of the 1900s was because of illiteracy and direct racial discrimination. Hold up....Then Enslavement of African as a a legal practice only ended in 1863.....arguable it stiil exist de facto in various places in the USA At the time of the CiviL Rights Movement many children of slaves were still alive....and a few slave were still alive The loss of 300 yrs of income is still being felt by many if not most African Americans today... Yes...things started to change in the 60"s for the better 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: By 1970s, although it was still a problem as it is today....illiteracy declined rapidly for much of Black America and although work place discrimination was real, most AfroAmericans were able to get jobs...even low wage jobs...that lifted them OUT of poverty. Especially with 2 people working. True 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I said, "...you telling me that Slavery still affect us today (which I agree with)" It's true. Slavery DOES affect us today. It affects our beauty standards. It affects our work ethic. It affects or religious life. If affects our diet. Slavery STILL has a profound impact on us as AfroAmericans today, I totally agree. I just don't believe it's the MAIN cause of Poverty. Look an estimate was done once by some proffessor of how much money was robbed from African Americans.....The estimate was 17 Trillion dollars... That's an extra $300,000.00 for every man woman and child around today.... So a family of 4 would be worth over a million dollars.....not a measly fifty thousand - think about that 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: 2 things led to the increase in Black poverty after the 1960s and neither came from the legacy of Slavery: 1. Drugs 2. Broken families. Broken Families can be attributed to slavery...directly. 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Both are direct and indirect products of SYSTEMIC RACISM designed to destabilize the Black community....yes...but they aren't a "legacy of Slavery". And before you even try it....DON'T EVEN TRY IT. Systemic Racism is NOT a Legacy of Slavery because it PRODUCED Slavery; not only in the Americas but through out Northern Africa and the Middle East. Western Racism is a product of Slavery... Race is a recent invention....ethnicity has also always been with us There have always been both bigotry and xenophopia 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: -The TransAtlantic slave trade was ONE aspect of Systemic Racism. -Drugs being brought into the community to destabilize it was ANOTHER aspect of Systemic Racism. -Broke Families as a result of feminism, the anti-male Welfares system, and living in a sexually liberated society where birth control is purposely limited and the masses are kept sexually ignorant is arguably ANOTHER aspect of Systemic Racism. True....but racism is a product of Slavery So as long as racism exist...we are feeling the effects of slavery 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Do you understand a little better? Do you still see a contradiction as to how I can believe Slavery does AFFECT us but is not the MAIN cause of the poverty in our community today? I see where you are coming from...The distinction you are trying to make I find disingenuous 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: No generational wealth to pass on - Legacy Lost What do you mean "no generational wealth"???? 1.Many if not most AfroAmericans had LAND in their possession during and right after Reconstruction; but most of them SOLD that land to White folks and moved up North and out West because they were trying to get away from the South. First of all most were share croppers... If you are forced to sell in order to stay alive....that is a distress/fire sale... It was not a expression of free will 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: 2. Even today, so many AfroAmericans come from good solid Middle Class families where their parents were doctors, lawyers, professors, teachers and other professions that paid well but THEY decided to go "gangsta" and ended up on drugs and with criminal records and lost much of the wealth their parents worked hard to earn. You are emphasising the 10% percent as if its the 90%....that my friend is duplicitous. 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I am saying Slavery and its consequences caused most if not all the poverty in the Black Community. Then you should stop saying that..... Because it's wrong. It is not wrong.....America wealth was made and stolen from Black Africans during the time of enslavement Without the Africanenslavement they would be no Capitalism or Industrialization 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: By some do you mean less than most?? By "some" I mean less than half. It is hard toput a percentage on it for me.....Slavery is the causeif not a 100% it near that. 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If not then what is?? Ignorance Well I Cannot disagree with that ... Ignorance is the cause of all sufferings pain and poverty.... The question then becomes whose ignorance bears the burden of being responsible for causing and maintaining these sufferings and poverty?? 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: That was true from the 1960's to the early 2000's.....that is now beginning to change and rapidly so I told you, one of the main culprits responsible for the modern poverty in AfroAmerica were the drugs. Drugs is a product....some one must make it and transport it Who introduce the drugs to Black communities?? US Governement agents are responsible for bringing drugs into the country 13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Now the NEW drug they're pushing on the community and even legalized it to get most of the youth addicted....is that fake ass weed. It's not REAL natural weed, but weed with genetically enhanced THC levels and it's making many of it's users overly emotional and psychotic. Fake and GMO weed is not weed but a poisonious product... just like so many so called foods sold in the supermarket and at convenience stores
richardmurray Posted March 15 Report Posted March 15 @ProfD after reading the original post and then reading some of the comments, I know i always drag multilogs back into the realm of history but , the one thing not one person in her commented is the financial fact, that the black populace in the usa has never been on the same financial footing as whites. Everyone black knows this. But, I don't think most black people seem to accept what that means financially, not historically, not communally or personally, but strictly financially. if 90% of wealth in the usa is inherited then 90% of white wealth in the usa is inherited from white murderers of first peoples in the modern usa + white enslavers of black peoples who started before the usa existed, in the european colonies. But here is the parallel, 90% of black wealth in the usa is inherited from black laborers (farmers/entertainers/government officials/teachers)+ black business owners after circa 1865 when the war between the states ended. The variance in the origin of black wealth in the usa in comparison to white wealth in usa is not only temporal but in tone. Violent(violent business ownership [taking land or enslaving other human beings]) based fiscal capitalism is always more robust than nonviolent(paid labor/non violent business ownership) based fiscal capitalism. And if you add the time difference the older violent based fiscal capitalism is more robust than the younger nonviolent based fiscal capitalism by exponential factors. I am not certain all black people in the usa accept this financial reality based on the comments or original post.
Pioneer1 Posted March 16 Author Report Posted March 16 frankster So are you saying that the Civil Rights Movement ...of 70yrs ago unlinked 300 yrs of EnSlavement??? Did I type that? If I typed that, then I'm saying it. But I don't remember typing that, because I DON'T believe it. Again, I'm not saying there is NO connection between Slavery and the problems the AfroAmerican community still faces today my point is you can't blame ALL of the problems or even most of the poverty on Slavery. Hold up....Then Enslavement of African as a a legal practice only ended in 1863.....arguable it stiil exist de facto in various places in the USA At the time of the CiviL Rights Movement many children of slaves were still alive....and a few slave were still alive The loss of 300 yrs of income is still being felt by many if not most African Americans today... Facts that I agree with. And? How does that translate to MOST of the poverty in the AfroAmerican community today being the result of Slavery? Broken Families can be attributed to slavery...directly. Really? So if that's the case, how do you explain the fact that from Reconstruction all the way up to the 1960s the MAJORITY of Black children were raised in families where BOTH parents were at home and married to eachother? Our people being raised predominately by single mothers started primarily in the late 60s. Over 100 years AFTER Chattel Slavery. Western Racism is a product of Slavery... You have it the wrong way around. Race is a recent invention....ethnicity has also always been with us You're wrong...again. The Ancient Egyptians clearly acknowledged racial differences between them and the desert dwelling Semites of Arabia. Ethnicity has more to do with CULTURE, while race is more PHYSICAL differences. The people of Kemet clearly acknowledged the physical differences between them and the Semitic peoples to their North. True....but racism is a product of Slavery Again, this is not true. Racism existed loooooong before the TransAtlantic Slave Trade. I see where you are coming from...The distinction you are trying to make I find disingenuous How you feel about it or what motives you ascribe to it is irrelevant, as long as you clearly understand it. First of all most were share croppers... Although that was a huge practice back then, again...many of our people still had and worked THEIR OWN land. You don't "share crop" on your OWN land. If you are forced to sell in order to stay alive....that is a distress/fire sale... Ok? My word is still bond. It was not a expression of free will Here we go again...... Forget about so many of us having our own land and a measure of wealth. Ignore that part....because THAT part proves you wrong. Instead, start focus on the excuses as to why they lost it without drawing too much attention to the fact that I was correct. Yeah....that's the idea. You are emphasising the 10% percent as if its the 90%....that my friend is duplicitous. I'm stating FACTS. I haven't put a percentage on it like you are attempting to. You're making broad based statements about Black wealth and poverty and I'm providing a more realistic and balanced perspective. It is not wrong.....America wealth was made and stolen from Black Africans during the time of enslavement You ARE wrong about Slavery being the cause of most of the poverty in Black America today. While I agree that America is benefiting from the wealth generated during Slavery, it's an emotional point that has nothing to do with the point that you are attempting to make but failing to. It is hard toput a percentage on it for me.....Slavery is the causeif not a 100% it near that. Statements like this make your argument sound increasingly ridiculous and in-credible. Again, it ignores the drugs, broken families, and prison industrial complex as other major causes of Black poverty. The question then becomes whose ignorance bears the burden of being responsible for causing and maintaining these sufferings and poverty?? Not sure, but if the suffering and poverty being inflicted is INTENTIONAL...as is the case when it comes to racism...then "ignorance" isn't an issue. Those who are inflicting it KNOW what they are doing. They aren't ignorant of that particular deed. Drugs is a product....some one must make it and transport it Who introduce the drugs to Black communities?? US Governement agents are responsible for bringing drugs into the country If somebody you know brought a bag full of cocaine to your house and dropped it off on the front porch, would you use it? If you and your lady were riding together in the car and she pulled out a syringe full of heroin and took some and offered some to you....would you poke yourself also? It's there. Someone introduced it to you. You don't have much of a choice BUT to take it, right? Fake and GMO weed is not weed but a poisonous product... just like so many so called foods sold in the supermarket and at convenience stores I agree. But they're still choosing to smoke it. Decisions Decisions
frankster Posted March 26 Report Posted March 26 My apologies for the delayed response.... On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: frankster So are you saying that the Civil Rights Movement ...of 70yrs ago unlinked 300 yrs of EnSlavement??? Did I type that? If I typed that, then I'm saying it. But I don't remember typing that, because I DON'T believe it. Again, I'm not saying there is NO connection between Slavery and the problems the AfroAmerican community still faces today my point is you can't blame ALL of the problems or even most of the poverty on Slavery. I do not blame all....but I do blame most of it. On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: Hold up....Then Enslavement of African as a a legal practice only ended in 1863.....arguable it stiil exist de facto in various places in the USA At the time of the CiviL Rights Movement many children of slaves were still alive....and a few slave were still alive The loss of 300 yrs of income is still being felt by many if not most African Americans today... Facts that I agree with. And? How does that translate to MOST of the poverty in the AfroAmerican community today being the result of Slavery? The lost of over a trillion dollars of worth of income owed to the black community....over 200,000.00 $ taken from each and every black person. On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: Broken Families can be attributed to slavery...directly. Really? So if that's the case, how do you explain the fact that from Reconstruction all the way up to the 1960s the MAJORITY of Black children were raised in families where BOTH parents were at home and married to eachother? Racism the first born of Slavery....is the effect of slavery that is still with us On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: Our people being raised predominately by single mothers started primarily in the late 60s. Over 100 years AFTER Chattel Slavery. True... Racist social policies required that black men be absent from their family...if their family is to recieve government help. On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: Western Racism is a product of Slavery... You have it the wrong way around. I do not think i do....do not confuse bigotry and xenophobia with racism On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: Race is a recent invention....ethnicity has also always been with us You're wrong...again. The Ancient Egyptians clearly acknowledged racial differences between them and the desert dwelling Semites of Arabia. Ethnicity has more to do with CULTURE, while race is more PHYSICAL differences. The people of Kemet clearly acknowledged the physical differences between them and the Semitic peoples to their North. We had this conversation Already They did not see race the way we do today in West. On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: True....but racism is a product of Slavery Again, this is not true. Racism existed loooooong before the TransAtlantic Slave Trade. No.... provide your evidence... On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: I see where you are coming from...The distinction you are trying to make I find disingenuous How you feel about it or what motives you ascribe to it is irrelevant, as long as you clearly understand it. You are placing emphasis on minor matters and incidentals whilst ignoring the main/chief and primary reasons On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: First of all most were share croppers... Although that was a huge practice back then, again...many of our people still had and worked THEIR OWN land. You don't "share crop" on your OWN land. Less than 10% owned.....the other 90% were share croppers On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: If you are forced to sell in order to stay alive....that is a distress/fire sale... Ok? My word is still bond. Its not a sale....but literally and figuratively a steal or dispossession On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: It was not a expression of free will Here we go again...... Forget about so many of us having our own land and a measure of wealth. Ignore that part....because THAT part proves you wrong. Instead, start focus on the excuses as to why they lost it without drawing too much attention to the fact that I was correct. Yeah....that's the idea. If some one is coerced to do anything..... legally and morally they are not guilty of that action. On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: You are emphasising the 10% percent as if its the 90%....that my friend is duplicitous. I'm stating FACTS. I haven't put a percentage on it like you are attempting to. You're making broad based statements about Black wealth and poverty and I'm providing a more realistic and balanced perspective. No I am saying what affects 90% is more relevant to the subject we are discussing. On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: It is not wrong.....America wealth was made and stolen from Black Africans during the time of enslavement You ARE wrong about Slavery being the cause of most of the poverty in Black America today. While I agree that America is benefiting from the wealth generated during Slavery, it's an emotional point that has nothing to do with the point that you are attempting to make but failing to. Really if you steal two hundred thousand dollars from the average individual.....you will put them in the red /negative - poverty On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: It is hard toput a percentage on it for me.....Slavery is the causeif not a 100% it near that. Statements like this make your argument sound increasingly ridiculous and in-credible. Again, it ignores the drugs, broken families, and prison industrial complex as other major causes of Black poverty. Yes I do....because they are not They are minor contributaries On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: The question then becomes whose ignorance bears the burden of being responsible for causing and maintaining these sufferings and poverty?? Not sure, but if the suffering and poverty being inflicted is INTENTIONAL...as is the case when it comes to racism...then "ignorance" isn't an issue. Those who are inflicting it KNOW what they are doing. They aren't ignorant of that particular deed. Then we agree....white government agents bought & brought the drugs and made the prisons On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: Drugs is a product....some one must make it and transport it Who introduce the drugs to Black communities?? US Governement agents are responsible for bringing drugs into the country If somebody you know brought a bag full of cocaine to your house and dropped it off on the front porch, would you use it? If you and your lady were riding together in the car and she pulled out a syringe full of heroin and took some and offered some to you....would you poke yourself also? It's there. Someone introduced it to you. You don't have much of a choice BUT to take it, right? Back when I was younger....I would and did It was cool and I needed to fit in and be accepted....it made me feel good and adult It made me make money... On 3/16/2025 at 7:10 AM, Pioneer1 said: Fake and GMO weed is not weed but a poisonous product... just like so many so called foods sold in the supermarket and at convenience stores I agree. But they're still choosing to smoke it. Decisions Decisions Most decisions that we make often depends on our knowledge understanding situation and especially Influences(parental and peer)
Pioneer1 Posted March 26 Author Report Posted March 26 frankster My apologies for the delayed response.... Unacceptable. Professor Griff said: Go get a late pass I do not blame all....but I do blame most of it. Fair enough. The lost of over a trillion dollars of worth of income owed to the black community....over 200,000.00 $ taken from each and every black person. Uhhh...I'm not going to go there with you, lol. We'll both just agree that it's a LOT that we're owed. Racism the first born of Slavery....is the effect of slavery that is still with us How could racism come AFTER Slavery when those same Whites -BEFORE enslaving Africans- called the Indians "savages" and declared them sub-human to Whites and committed genocide against them? That was racially motivated and it was BEFORE Slavery. True... Racist social policies required that black men be absent from their family...if their family is to recieve government help. Which helped to break up the Black family. Which means...the Black family was pretty much TOGETHER before those policies of the 60s and 70s. I do not think i do....do not confuse bigotry and xenophobia with racism Bigotry is a PRODUCT of racism. Xenophobia is a PARTNER of racism. We had this conversation Already They did not see race the way we do today in West. It doesn't matter how they "saw" it, the point is they ACKNOWLEDGED it. No.... provide your evidence... Look how the Arabs who saw themselves superior to Black Africans...went down into Africa to enslave people and take them back to the Middle East. This had been going on for THOUSANDS of years before the TransAtlantic Slave trade. And it was racially based. Less than 10% owned.....the other 90% were share croppers I don't know about the percentage. Again, I know that a lot of our people had and worked THEIR OWN land. If some one is coerced to do anything..... legally and morally they are not guilty of that action. Who told you that? Yes I do....because they are not They are minor contributaries Well.... I see there's no use going back and forth with you on THIS particular point; but atleast you acknowledge that these factors CONTRIBUTE to modern Black poverty. Then we agree....white government agents bought & brought the drugs and made the prisons Ofcourse. It was all part of a conspiracy. -a conspiracy that a lot of silly ass niggaz CHOOSE to participate in not caring about the consequences. Back when I was younger....I would and did It was cool and I needed to fit in and be accepted....it made me feel good and adult It made me make money... These are all CHOICES and PERSONAL DECISIONS based on PERSONAL MOTIVES. So it seems that in many cases, the White racists are exploiting a negativity that already exists in the minds of some of our people. Most decisions that we make often depends on our knowledge understanding situation and especially Influences(parental and peer) I agree. So when you sell dope to your own people KNOWING it's poison- and in many cases...depending on what you've "cut" it with...it is LITERAL POISION -what does that say about you? If you know weapons were brought in and gangsta rap is promoted to encourage you to kill your own kind...and you participate in it anyway -what does that say about you? Again, perhaps White racists are exploiting a negativity that already exists in a lot of our people and using it to their advantage.
frankster Posted March 27 Report Posted March 27 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster My apologies for the delayed response.... Unacceptable. Professor Griff said: Go get a late pass Got It 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I do not blame all....but I do blame most of it. Fair enough. Cool 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The lost of over a trillion dollars of worth of income owed to the black community....over 200,000.00 $ taken from each and every black person. Uhhh...I'm not going to go there with you, lol. We'll both just agree that it's a LOT that we're owed. Thats the low conservative amount 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Racism the first born of Slavery....is the effect of slavery that is still with us How could racism come AFTER Slavery when those same Whites -BEFORE enslaving Africans- called the Indians "savages" and declared them sub-human to Whites and committed genocide against them? That was racially motivated and it was BEFORE Slavery. Bigotry prejudice and discrimination....not Racism 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: True... Racist social policies required that black men be absent from their family...if their family is to recieve government help. Which helped to break up the Black family. Which means...the Black family was pretty much TOGETHER before those policies of the 60s and 70s. Yes Between 1860 and 1960 blacks families were more together than before and after those years... For near 300 yrs prior to 1860 the black family as an institution was non existent 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I do not think i do....do not confuse bigotry and xenophobia with racism Bigotry is a PRODUCT of racism. Xenophobia is a PARTNER of racism. I disagree. There was no Racism in the West prior to the 1600 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: We had this conversation Already They did not see race the way we do today in West. It doesn't matter how they "saw" it, the point is they ACKNOWLEDGED it. No....they acknowledged Ethnicities and Nations. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: No.... provide your evidence... Look how the Arabs who saw themselves superior to Black Africans...went down into Africa to enslave people and take them back to the Middle East. This had been going on for THOUSANDS of years before the TransAtlantic Slave trade. And it was racially based. No...Most Arabs were black and African 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Less than 10% owned.....the other 90% were share croppers I don't know about the percentage. Again, I know that a lot of our people had and worked THEIR OWN land. 10% qualifies for a lot......but no where near most or mainly. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If some one is coerced to do anything..... legally and morally they are not guilty of that action. Who told you that? It is the Law and Ethics of most countries. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes I do....because they are not They are minor contributaries Well.... I see there's no use going back and forth with you on THIS particular point; but atleast you acknowledge that these factors CONTRIBUTE to modern Black poverty. Yes they do....but drug use plays an almost insignificant role. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Then we agree....white government agents bought & brought the drugs and made the prisons Ofcourse. It was all part of a conspiracy. -a conspiracy that a lot of silly ass niggaz CHOOSE to participate in not caring about the consequences. I am not prepared or willing to call them silly....but I am willing and prepared to call them victims of racism 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Back when I was younger....I would and did It was cool and I needed to fit in and be accepted....it made me feel good and adult It made me make money... These are all CHOICES and PERSONAL DECISIONS based on PERSONAL MOTIVES. So it seems that in many cases, the White racists are exploiting a negativity that already exists in the minds of some of our people. No...it is not a negativity that already existed in the minds of people... They explioted a trait common to all human beings .......especially when they are in a oppressed condition 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Most decisions that we make often depends on our knowledge understanding situation and especially Influences(parental and peer) I agree. So when you sell dope to your own people KNOWING it's poison- and in many cases...depending on what you've "cut" it with...it is LITERAL POISION -what does that say about you? If you know weapons were brought in and gangsta rap is promoted to encourage you to kill your own kind...and you participate in it anyway -what does that say about you? Again, perhaps White racists are exploiting a negativity that already exists in a lot of our people and using it to their advantage. First of all you do not know....and when you do figure it out often times its too late you are trapped No white people are using common psychology and explioting human traits to our detriment...White people are turning a positive to a negative
Pioneer1 Posted March 27 Author Report Posted March 27 frankster Bigotry prejudice and discrimination....not Racism All three are BYPRODUCTS of Racism. They can also be biproducts of OTHER things too like Sexism, but in this case....they are byproducts of Racism. Yes Between 1860 and 1960 blacks families were more together than before and after those years... Right. So that means that if Black families started separating AFTER this era...a NEW FACTOR/s must have been introduced. I disagree. There was no Racism in the West prior to the 1600 So the Inquisitions that happened around Europe that tried to force Jews and Muslims to become Christian, and the African Moors being driven out of Spain and other parts of Southern Europe in the late 1400s was a RELIGIOUS issue? You're saying race and racism had nothing to do with it? No...Most Arabs were black and African No. Most Arabs were either Caucasian/White or mixed. Some were Black, but the vast vast majority were not. Yes they do....but drug use plays an almost insignificant role. Man, do you know how many Black families have literally been broken up with the children being taken away by the state because the mother or the parents were using drugs??? I am not prepared or willing to call them silly.... That's Ok...I will.
frankster Posted March 28 Report Posted March 28 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Bigotry prejudice and discrimination....not Racism All three are BYPRODUCTS of Racism. They can also be biproducts of OTHER things too like Sexism, but in this case....they are byproducts of Racism. No....... Racism is a by product of Greed Bigotry and Xenophobia 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes Between 1860 and 1960 blacks families were more together than before and after those years... Right. So that means that if Black families started separating AFTER this era...a NEW FACTOR/s must have been introduced. First black people were kept seperate before by the system of slavery Then after emancipation blacks were now able to maintain a family structure.. The destruction of black families never stop...it only slowed until a new more effective means was found Then Racism resume the destruction of the black family structure. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: I disagree. There was no Racism in the West prior to the 1600 So the Inquisitions that happened around Europe that tried to force Jews and Muslims to become Christian, and the African Moors being driven out of Spain and other parts of Southern Europe in the late 1400s was a RELIGIOUS issue? Yes...that was xenophobia or religious intolerance Those that accepted Christianity were allowed to stay and become a member of society. 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: You're saying race and racism had nothing to do with it? The concept of race was just then beginning to form 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: No...Most Arabs were black and African No. Most Arabs were either Caucasian/White or mixed. Some were Black, but the vast vast majority were not. I am basing it on the fact that the mother of all Arabs was an Egyptian....which to means she was African and black The Arabs themselves are now stating that all the original Jews were black.. Abraham a original Jew/Hebrew was Hagar husband and the father of Ishmael... Ishmael is the father of all Arabs....so most if not all of the original arabs were black - especially those in Africa 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes they do....but drug use plays an almost insignificant role. Man, do you know how many Black families have literally been broken up with the children being taken away by the state because the mother or the parents were using drugs??? Yes I do.... Do you know that every black person who is a descendant of a enslaved person was robbed of hundreds of thousands of dollars of generational wealth. In a American that is almost every black person 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: I am not prepared or willing to call them silly.... That's Ok...I will. fine...thats on you
Pioneer1 Posted March 28 Author Report Posted March 28 frankster No....... Racism is a by product of Greed Bigotry and Xenophobia Maybe SYSTEMIC Racism, but not individualized and cultural racism. First black people were kept seperate before by the system of slavery Then after emancipation blacks were now able to maintain a family structure.. The destruction of black families never stop...it only slowed until a new more effective means was found Then Racism resume the destruction of the black family structure. Yes...RACISM...but not necessarily SLAVERY. Talk about moving the goal posts. You're attempting to change the entire GAME...lol Yes...that was xenophobia or religious intolerance Those that accepted Christianity were allowed to stay and become a member of society. What about the Moors who were almost completely driven out? You don't think that was racially based? Also, what about the massacre of the Native American in the Americas; you don't think that was racially based? I am basing it on the fact that the mother of all Arabs was an Egyptian....which to means she was African and black You aren't basing that out of "fact". You are basing that out of a STORY you read in the Bible. I personally don't believe that's where Arabs come from. I believe they came from the various Caucasian tribes who came down from the Caucasus Mountains and mixed in with the original peoples of Arabia. Yes I do.... Do you know that every black person who is a descendant of a enslaved person was robbed of hundreds of thousands of dollars of generational wealth. Ok... And what does that have to do with a mother who CHOOSES to smoke rocks while pregnant bring into the world a crack addicted baby who will be taken away by the state? That wasn't Slavery. That was her loving her Crack head boyfriend (who introduced her to crack in the first place) more than she loved her own health and her own children. Everything can't be blamed on Slavery.
frankster Posted March 28 Report Posted March 28 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster No....... Racism is a by product of Greed Bigotry and Xenophobia Maybe SYSTEMIC Racism, but not individualized and cultural racism. When Bigotry and Xenophobia becomes systemize institutionalize normalize and legalize then it is racism 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: First black people were kept seperate before by the system of slavery Then after emancipation blacks were now able to maintain a family structure.. The destruction of black families never stop...it only slowed until a new more effective means was found Then Racism resume the destruction of the black family structure. Yes...RACISM...but not necessarily SLAVERY. Talk about moving the goal posts. You're attempting to change the entire GAME...lol A pause or slowing is not an ending but a interruption.... I am not moving the goal post but showing you the whole entire continuum. So start from the beginning and watch the progression/retrogression ....not in the just anywhere 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes...that was xenophobia or religious intolerance Those that accepted Christianity were allowed to stay and become a member of society. What about the Moors who were almost completely driven out? You don't think that was racially based? Also, what about the massacre of the Native American in the Americas; you don't think that was racially based? No not racial.....but religious intolerance. Socalled white moslems and white jews also had to leave.... 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I am basing it on the fact that the mother of all Arabs was an Egyptian....which to means she was African and black You aren't basing that out of "fact". You are basing that out of a STORY you read in the Bible. I personally don't believe that's where Arabs come from. I believe they came from the various Caucasian tribes who came down from the Caucasus Mountains and mixed in with the original peoples of Arabia. The original Arabs were black Africans Just as how you see the Arabs in Egypt calling themselves Egyptians... It is the same thing the Turkic caucasus mountain people living in the Arabian penninsula call themselves Arabs. 10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes I do.... Do you know that every black person who is a descendant of a enslaved person was robbed of hundreds of thousands of dollars of generational wealth. Ok... And what does that have to do with a mother who CHOOSES to smoke rocks while pregnant bring into the world a crack addicted baby who will be taken away by the state? That wasn't Slavery. That was her loving her Crack head boyfriend (who introduced her to crack in the first place) more than she loved her own health and her own children. Everything can't be blamed on Slaver Who originally allowed and made the crack available and accessible to her and her boyfriend? You blame the people who are responsible....not the victims do you blame the people of china when europeans flooded their country with opium destroying their empire...?
umbrarchist Posted March 28 Report Posted March 28 On 3/7/2025 at 6:03 PM, Pioneer1 said: MILLIONS of Black Americans were solidly in the Middle Classes by the mid-20th century. What is "solidly" middle class? In my opinion that just means farther up the treadmill, carrying a bigger debt load. The score is NET WORTH! That is why Accounting should be mandatory. I don't hear White educators talking about that. It was mostly White boys in my class in high school but I don't even know if there was an accounting course at my school then. .
Pioneer1 Posted March 29 Author Report Posted March 29 frankster When Bigotry and Xenophobia becomes systemize institutionalize normalize and legalize then it is racism Racism doesn't need to be codified or systemic. It often is...but that's not a prerequisite for it. A pause or slowing is not an ending but a interruption.... Correct, but the CAUSES may be different. A person may do 20 years in prison for murder, get out, and go right back in again for aggravated assault and battery. Yes he's in prison again, but for a DIFFERENT REASON this time. No not racial.....but religious intolerance. Socalled white moslems and white jews also had to leave.... You're in denial. The treatment of the Moors was absolutely racially based for the most part, although religion did play a huge role also. The original Arabs were black Africans Just as how you see the Arabs in Egypt calling themselves Egyptians... It is the same thing the Turkic caucasus mountain people living in the Arabian penninsula call themselves Arabs. The original Arabs were White people from the Caucasus who WENT into the lands we now call "Arabia". The original peoples OF Arabia were Black, but they didn't call themselves Arabs. The first people calling themselves "Arabs" and took on that anti-Black culture were Caucasian who started wandering around in the deserts of Arabia seeking to conquer it's Black civilizations. Who originally allowed and made the crack available and accessible to her and her boyfriend? Doesn't matter. They CHOSE to smoke it and fuck their lives up. That's like a man getting drunk and killing his wife with a gun but you want to blame the gun manufacture and the stores he bought the gun and liquor from on his wife's death, instead of blaming HIM for the actions he CHOSE to take. You blame the people who are responsible....not the victims Yes, and the people responsible are the mother and her boyfriend! They are to blame because they CHOSE to cop them rocks and smoke them not caring about the consequences. do you blame the people of china when europeans flooded their country with opium destroying their empire...? Partially, yes. But the important part of the Opium Wars was that the Chinese recognized the problem and who initiated it and TOOK RESPONSIBILITY to solve it by driving the devils out of their land. umbrarchist What is "solidly" middle class? You're not struggling and teetering on the brink of poverty. You have all of the basic needs met for yourself and your family (household) and in my opinion can MAINTAIN these for atleast 6 months with no further income if necessary. You're not just Middle Class but SOLIDLY in the middle class.
umbrarchist Posted March 31 Report Posted March 31 What is the right car for the middle class? A few weeks ago I watched a video of a Black woman on the edge of tears explaining that she had to give up her BMW because she could not make the payments. Repos Skyrocketing I am strange because it is just technology to me and I have regarded cars as shit since before the Moon landing P-38 Saga I wonder when aircraft engineers from 1938 would have guessed that the Moon landing would occur. Now mechanics are admitting that cars are shit. .
Pioneer1 Posted March 31 Author Report Posted March 31 umbrarchist Believe it or not, you can be solidly in the middle class without a car PERIOD. And I'm not talking about those living in New York or Boston, but those living in the South or Midwest who can't afford one at the moment. Just because you can't afford a car, doesn't necessarily mean your poor.
frankster Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 On 3/29/2025 at 7:32 AM, Pioneer1 said: frankster When Bigotry and Xenophobia becomes systemize institutionalize normalize and legalize then it is racism Racism doesn't need to be codified or systemic. It often is...but that's not a prerequisite for it. Yes...... it has to be in order for it to be racism On 3/29/2025 at 7:32 AM, Pioneer1 said: A pause or slowing is not an ending but a interruption.... Correct, but the CAUSES may be different. A person may do 20 years in prison for murder, get out, and go right back in again for aggravated assault and battery. Yes he's in prison again, but for a DIFFERENT REASON this time. True....and that same person maybe innocent of all charges. So then it means that person is being targeted. On 3/29/2025 at 7:32 AM, Pioneer1 said: No not racial.....but religious intolerance. Socalled white moslems and white jews also had to leave.... You're in denial. The treatment of the Moors was absolutely racially based for the most part, although religion did play a huge role also. Show me how that is true? On 3/29/2025 at 7:32 AM, Pioneer1 said: The original Arabs were black Africans Just as how you see the Arabs in Egypt calling themselves Egyptians... It is the same thing the Turkic caucasus mountain people living in the Arabian penninsula call themselves Arabs. The original Arabs were White people from the Caucasus who WENT into the lands we now call "Arabia". The original peoples OF Arabia were Black, but they didn't call themselves Arabs. The first people calling themselves "Arabs" and took on that anti-Black culture were Caucasian who started wandering around in the deserts of Arabia seeking to conquer it's Black civilizations. As far as I know they were Called Ishmaelites... Khemites were renamed Egyptians....so were they renamed Arabs Why do you say Arabs are anti-black? On 3/29/2025 at 7:32 AM, Pioneer1 said: Who originally allowed and made the crack available and accessible to her and her boyfriend? Doesn't matter. They CHOSE to smoke it and fuck their lives up. That's like a man getting drunk and killing his wife with a gun but you want to blame the gun manufacture and the stores he bought the gun and liquor from on his wife's death, instead of blaming HIM for the actions he CHOSE to take. Who brought the coke.....no coke no crack and no lives f up in the community. No .... who ever sold him the alcohol maybe held liable On 3/29/2025 at 7:32 AM, Pioneer1 said: You blame the people who are responsible....not the victims Yes, and the people responsible are the mother and her boyfriend! They are to blame because they CHOSE to cop them rocks and smoke them not caring about the consequences. Who gave it to them? On 3/29/2025 at 7:32 AM, Pioneer1 said:
Pioneer1 Posted April 5 Author Report Posted April 5 frankster Yes...... it has to be in order for it to be racism What? Lol, where did you get THAT one from??? True....and that same person maybe innocent of all charges. So then it means that person is being targeted. Absolutely. However being that as it may, that still doesn't mean that his 2nd trip to prison was as a direct result of his first one. The REASON he was sent to prison both times may be the same. But the first one doesn't necessarily LEAD to the second one. Likewise.... The INDIRECT CAUSE of the breaking up of the Black family during Slavery....racism. The INDIRECT CAUSE of the breaking up of the Black family during the post Civil Rights Era....racism. Both were from the same indirect cause, but one didn't cause the other. Show me how that is true? What do you mean "show you how"??? You know the Moors were Black and you know they were occupying a White territory and the racist Whites didn't want them there and organized to kick them out. I thought this was a historic fact that nearly all of us could agree on. What kind of proof do you need in order to believe this? As far as I know they were Called Ishmaelites... That's the problem...you don't KNOW....you BELIEVE. You can't "know" something that's not true. You BELIEVE it because your book (Bible) told you this was the case. Khemites were renamed Egyptians....so were they renamed Arabs Somewhat..... but the people of Kemet (ancient Egypt) were Black. They weren't simply "renamed" Arab....the mostly Caucasian Arabs INVADED that land and displaced much of the population while mixing in with others. And they brought in or made it easier for other mostly Caucasian ethnic groups like Greeks and Persians in to help them. So now most Egyptians are NOT Black and actually ARE non-Black Arab or a mix of other Caucasian ethnicities with trace amounts of Black ancestry. But my point is, they aren't simply ancient Kemites who were "renamed" Arab. Why do you say Arabs are anti-black? Because they are. Through out the Arab world...Black people are known as "Abeed" which means slave. Who brought the coke.....no coke no crack and no lives f up in the community. ((Pioneer1 takes his glasses off and rests them on the counter)) Maaaaan..... In most cases didn't nobody tell them crazy ass niggaz to smoke that shit. Most of them CHOSE to do it and fuck themselves up. YOU know that and I know that, so why you frontin' and defending them? I know the shit was brought in to destabilize the Black community. We BEEN knowing it....which is why most Black folks with good sense don't fuck with it. But most of those who did CHOSE to... They chose to USE it..SELL it..HAVE BABIES addicted to it...and not give a damn about the consequences and repercussions or who was trying to trick or trap them. That's much of the problem right there..... One of the reasons White folks can so easily trick and trap a lot of our people is because so many of them are so stupid and indifferent and simply don't care about the community in general but only their own personal self gratification that they don't care about the devastating effect this poison will have on the future. They even JOKE about it being "the trap house" and selling dope is "out trapping". They KNOW it's a trap White racists put out there to snag them, and STILL don't care. What can you do with somebody like that; besides stand back and let the fool get what he's been asking for? Some of our people will fuck up nearly ANY situation. If White folks weren't able to trap them with Crack and Heroin ( or "Her'on" as the old school called it)...it would be with something else. A fool is a fool. Who gave it to them? In many cases....another Black man who cooked it up and rocked it up.
frankster Posted April 7 Report Posted April 7 On 4/5/2025 at 7:44 PM, Pioneer1 said: frankster Yes...... it has to be in order for it to be racism What? Lol, where did you get THAT one from??? Without the systemic and institutional support it is not racism...it is bigotry or prejudiced. Racism as experince by black people is always systemic institutionalized and legalized On 4/5/2025 at 7:44 PM, Pioneer1 said: True....and that same person maybe innocent of all charges. So then it means that person is being targeted. Absolutely. However being that as it may, that still doesn't mean that his 2nd trip to prison was as a direct result of his first one. The REASON he was sent to prison both times may be the same. But the first one doesn't necessarily LEAD to the second one. If he is being targeted then it most definitely is connected On 4/5/2025 at 7:44 PM, Pioneer1 said: Likewise.... The INDIRECT CAUSE of the breaking up of the Black family during Slavery....racism. The INDIRECT CAUSE of the breaking up of the Black family during the post Civil Rights Era....racism. Both were from the same indirect cause, but one didn't cause the other. It was not indirect....it is and was direct. On 4/5/2025 at 7:44 PM, Pioneer1 said: Show me how that is true? What do you mean "show you how"??? You know the Moors were Black and you know they were occupying a White territory and the racist Whites didn't want them there and organized to kick them out. I thought this was a historic fact that nearly all of us could agree on. They were kicked as the jews were for religious reasons. On 4/5/2025 at 7:44 PM, Pioneer1 said: What kind of proof do you need in order to believe this? I can proved to you it was as a result of religious intolerance and cultural xenophobia. On 4/5/2025 at 7:44 PM, Pioneer1 said: As far as I know they were Called Ishmaelites... That's the problem...you don't KNOW....you BELIEVE. You can't "know" something that's not true. You BELIEVE it because your book (Bible) told you this was the case. Yes... On 4/5/2025 at 7:44 PM, Pioneer1 said: Khemites were renamed Egyptians....so were they renamed Arabs Somewhat..... but the people of Kemet (ancient Egypt) were Black. They weren't simply "renamed" Arab....the mostly Caucasian Arabs INVADED that land and displaced much of the population while mixing in with others. And they brought in or made it easier for other mostly Caucasian ethnic groups like Greeks and Persians in to help them. So now most Egyptians are NOT Black and actually ARE non-Black Arab or a mix of other Caucasian ethnicities with trace amounts of Black ancestry. But my point is, they aren't simply ancient Kemites who were "renamed" Arab. The people living there were black Africans called Sabaeans who are traced back to the African Kingdom of Sheba On 4/5/2025 at 7:44 PM, Pioneer1 said: Why do you say Arabs are anti-black? Because they are. Through out the Arab world...Black people are known as "Abeed" which means slave. But you did not use the word racist instead you choose antiblack?? On 4/5/2025 at 7:44 PM, Pioneer1 said: Who brought the coke.....no coke no crack and no lives f up in the community. ((Pioneer1 takes his glasses off and rests them on the counter)) Maaaaan..... In most cases didn't nobody tell them crazy ass niggaz to smoke that shit. Most of them CHOSE to do it and fuck themselves up. YOU know that and I know that, so why you frontin' and defending them? You do not want to place the blame where it belongs.....It is a known fact that CIA agents introduced and poisoned those communities and peoples. While you here trying to make excuses for them....and blaming the victims On 4/5/2025 at 7:44 PM, Pioneer1 said: I know the shit was brought in to destabilize the Black community. We BEEN knowing it....which is why most Black folks with good sense don't fuck with it. But most of those who did CHOSE to... They chose to USE it..SELL it..HAVE BABIES addicted to it...and not give a damn about the consequences and repercussions or who was trying to trick or trap them. They never choose....it was pushed on to them - that is why the dope dealers are called PUSHERS On 4/5/2025 at 7:44 PM, Pioneer1 said: That's much of the problem right there..... One of the reasons White folks can so easily trick and trap a lot of our people is because so many of them are so stupid and indifferent and simply don't care about the community in general but only their own personal self gratification that they don't care about the devastating effect this poison will have on the future. You are so ignorant of history.....they killed all who cared and tried to make the community better On 4/5/2025 at 7:44 PM, Pioneer1 said: They even JOKE about it being "the trap house" and selling dope is "out trapping". They KNOW it's a trap White racists put out there to snag them, and STILL don't care. What can you do with somebody like that; besides stand back and let the fool get what he's been asking for? Exactly On 4/5/2025 at 7:44 PM, Pioneer1 said: Some of our people will fuck up nearly ANY situation. If White folks weren't able to trap them with Crack and Heroin ( or "Her'on" as the old school called it)...it would be with something else. A fool is a fool. Yes....oppressors will always be finding ways to PUSH black people into TRAPS On 4/5/2025 at 7:44 PM, Pioneer1 said: Who gave it to them? In many cases....another Black man who cooked it up and rocked it up. The Government introduced it and flooded black communities with it....they used alcohol on the indians and opium on the chinese Excuse me while I use some street lingo here maybe it is the only way you understand.... You sound just like Nancy Reagan with some just say NO bullshyte...thats the hand book you reading from - silly wrabbit now that the chickens done come home to roost and there communities are suffering from Opiod crisis they doing everything to save their communities while they did nothing for our community except push more drugs in blame the victims by throwing them in prison... No No do not give opiod junkies medical treatment just tell them to say NO. Wake the fcup up n.g.a They done admitted to this and you up here making excuses for them...trying to but the blame on the victims - get outta here with that bullshyte.
Pioneer1 Posted April 7 Author Report Posted April 7 frankster Without the systemic and institutional support it is not racism...it is bigotry or prejudiced. Bigotry and prejudice could be about ANY difference, not just race. A person could be prejudice against women. A person could be a religious bigot. If it's about RACE...then it's RACISM. Racism as experince by black people is always systemic institutionalized and legalized Man, that's crazy. If a White man decides on his own to burn a cross in front of his Black neighbor's house...are you saying because he didn't get permission from the system or wasn't commissioned by some institution or because it's not legal...then it's not really "racism"???? Where do you come up with this stuff, man???? If he is being targeted then it most definitely is connected Didn't say there was no connection...stay with me here. BOTH trips may have stemmed from the same root cause but the first prison stint STILL may not have caused the second. It was not indirect....it is and was direct. How is racism DIRECTLY responsible for the break up of the Black family today? I agree that it's responsible; but indirectly. Explain to me how it's DIRECTLY responsible. They were kicked as the jews were for religious reasons. The Jews who were kicked out were for the most part fully or partly Black too. The people living there were black Africans called Sabaeans who are traced back to the African Kingdom of Sheba The Sabean kingdom was centered around Yemen, and I'm not sure if they were actually Black. Are you telling me that the people of Kemet/Ancient Egypt came from the Sabaen peoples? But you did not use the word racist instead you choose antiblack?? I don't understand the question. Anti-Black is a FORM of racism. You do not want to place the blame where it belongs... If they CHOSE to pick up that damn crack pipe...then THEY share the blame too. They never choose....it was pushed on to them - that is why the dope dealers are called PUSHERS And they CHOSE to accept it. You are so ignorant of history.....they killed all who cared and tried to make the community better Killing the leaders didn't force those addicts to use the drugs though. That was a personal choice that most of THEM made. Don't conflate the two. Yes....oppressors will always be finding ways to PUSH black people into TRAPS If you're rapping about it and driving up to it and working out of it...you aren't being PUSHED into it. It's a lifestyle that you're consciously choosing. You just don't want to accept that some of those niggaz CHOSE that shit...do you? The Government introduced it and flooded black communities with it....they used alcohol on the indians and opium on the chinese Which they wouldn't be able to do with the HELP OF OTHER Black folks, Indians, and Chinese. So maybe that's something else we may have to look into. Excuse me while I use some street lingo here maybe it is the only way you understand.... You sound just like Nancy Reagan with some just say NO bullshyte...thats the hand book you reading from - silly wrabbit now that the chickens done come home to roost and there communities are suffering from Opiod crisis they doing everything to save their communities while they did nothing for our community except push more drugs in blame the victims by throwing them in prison... No No do not give opiod junkies medical treatment just tell them to say NO. Wake the fcup up n.g.a They done admitted to this and you up here making excuses for them...trying to but the blame on the victims - get outta here with that bullshyte. Sounds like an emotional temper tantrum from someone who lacks first hand experience dealing with people who use and sell dope in the AfroAmerican community. I know you SAID you were about that life back in the day, and I don't really have a reason to doubt what you say...HOWEVER....the way you're making excuses for some of these silly ass people who chose to smoke dope, sell poison, and not give a damn WHO brought it to the community or for what purpose...it's so immature and narrow minded. Most people who were really IN that life would agree with me that for most of them it was a CHOICE and they don't make excuses for them because they have first hand knowledge of how ruthless and selfish a lot of the people who both use and sell are. If a mother is willing to sell her own BABIES...come on man, you're going to let her of the hook and blame that shit on direct racism? Flava Flav would say: A yo Chuck is they serious, man?
frankster Posted April 8 Report Posted April 8 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Without the systemic and institutional support it is not racism...it is bigotry or prejudiced. Bigotry and prejudice could be about ANY difference, not just race. A person could be prejudice against women. A person could be a religious bigot. If it's about RACE...then it's RACISM. No it is not 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Racism as experince by black people is always systemic institutionalized and legalized Man, that's crazy. If a White man decides on his own to burn a cross in front of his Black neighbor's house...are you saying because he didn't get permission from the system or wasn't commissioned by some institution or because it's not legal...then it's not really "racism"???? Where do you come up with this stuff, man???? The system will support him throught the courts in most cases if you decided to litigate... 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If he is being targeted then it most definitely is connected Didn't say there was no connection...stay with me here. BOTH trips may have stemmed from the same root cause but the first prison stint STILL may not have caused the second. If he is being targeted....then how can it not be? 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: It was not indirect....it is and was direct. How is racism DIRECTLY responsible for the break up of the Black family today? I agree that it's responsible; but indirectly. Explain to me how it's DIRECTLY responsible. Unequal pay and fair and just treatment in law and social services. 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: They were kicked as the jews were for religious reasons. The Jews who were kicked out were for the most part fully or partly Black too. Some where what you would consider white..... Christians who were not Catholic were burned.... 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The people living there were black Africans called Sabaeans who are traced back to the African Kingdom of Sheba The Sabean kingdom was centered around Yemen, and I'm not sure if they were actually Black. Are you telling me that the people of Kemet/Ancient Egypt came from the Sabaen peoples? No...the Sabaean people came from Africa....Yemen is part of the Arabian peninsula. 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: But you did not use the word racist instead you choose antiblack?? I don't understand the question. Anti-Black is a FORM of racism. Many black Arabs are in Positions of leadership from time immemorial....the black arabs can hold any position in Arab society. 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You do not want to place the blame where it belongs... If they CHOSE to pick up that damn crack pipe...then THEY share the blame too. They never choose....it was pushed on to them - that is why the dope dealers are called PUSHERS And they CHOSE to accept it. If you are coerce into doing something....then you not guilty of it 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You are so ignorant of history.....they killed all who cared and tried to make the community better Killing the leaders didn't force those addicts to use the drugs though. That was a personal choice that most of THEM made. Don't conflate the two. Again you fail to see....they whites have befuddle your mind. They kill your leaders and poison your people and you fail to see the connection..... 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes....oppressors will always be finding ways to PUSH black people into TRAPS If you're rapping about it and driving up to it and working out of it...you aren't being PUSHED into it. It's a lifestyle that you're consciously choosing. You just don't want to accept that some of those niggaz CHOSE that shit...do you? You just do not want to accept the truth even after they admitted to it....boy have they fixed you. 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The Government introduced it and flooded black communities with it....they used alcohol on the indians and opium on the chinese Which they wouldn't be able to do with the HELP OF OTHER Black folks, Indians, and Chinese. So maybe that's something else we may have to look into. All victims except the government preps 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Excuse me while I use some street lingo here maybe it is the only way you understand.... You sound just like Nancy Reagan with some just say NO bullshyte...thats the hand book you reading from - silly wrabbit now that the chickens done come home to roost and there communities are suffering from Opiod crisis they doing everything to save their communities while they did nothing for our community except push more drugs in blame the victims by throwing them in prison... No No do not give opiod junkies medical treatment just tell them to say NO. Wake the fcup up n.g.a They done admitted to this and you up here making excuses for them...trying to but the blame on the victims - get outta here with that bullshyte. Sounds like an emotional temper tantrum from someone who lacks first hand experience dealing with people who use and sell dope in the AfroAmerican community. I know you SAID you were about that life back in the day, and I don't really have a reason to doubt what you say...HOWEVER....the way you're making excuses for some of these silly ass people who chose to smoke dope, sell poison, and not give a damn WHO brought it to the community or for what purpose...it's so immature and narrow minded. Most people who were really IN that life would agree with me that for most of them it was a CHOICE and they don't make excuses for them because they have first hand knowledge of how ruthless and selfish a lot of the people who both use and sell are. If a mother is willing to sell her own BABIES...come on man, you're going to let her of the hook and blame that shit on direct racism? Flava Flav would say: A yo Chuck is they serious, man? Anybody who agree with you is drinking the same cool aid.....the Government done admitted to it and here you are making excuses and blaming the victim....sheesh damn you so lost in the souce.
Pioneer1 Posted April 10 Author Report Posted April 10 frankster The system will support him throught the courts in most cases if you decided to litigate... We don't know what "the system" will do, but we DO know that him burning that cross was a sho'nuff act of racism. He didn't need a "system" behind him driving him to do his dastardly deed. If he is being targeted....then how can it not be? Let me break it down in simpler terms..... There's a difference between: 1. WHAT caused something and 2. That "something" actually causing something else. Two different concepts..... Now follow me as I draw you an illustration. A man, who is bipolar....attempts suicide. He's hospitalized. He get's out. A year later he's readmitted to the hospital for assaulting his aunt who he's staying with. Still with me? Ok... His BIPOLAR is that "what" that caused both hospital stays But his first hospital stay did not cause his second. There's a connection. That connection is that he's bipolar. But the first hospitalization didn't CAUSE the second. The UNDERLYING FACTOR (him being bipolar) caused both! Did I make it plain for you? Some where what you would consider white..... Christians who were not Catholic were burned.... Ok, so there were other factors like religion and ethnicity. However RACE was a major factor. No...the Sabaean people came from Africa....Yemen is part of the Arabian peninsula. Ok. I don't know TOO much about the Sabaen people so I'll leave that part alone. Many black Arabs are in Positions of leadership from time immemorial....the black arabs can hold any position in Arab society. There are many Black Arabs in Iraq, Palestine, and even in Syria and Jordan. How many have you seen make President or are in leadership positions? If you are coerce into doing something....then you not guilty of it According to WHO'S law? The one you made up..lol. Anybody who agree with you is drinking the same cool aid.....the Government done admitted to it and here you are making excuses and blaming the victim....sheesh Speaking of "aid"..... Ever heard of aiding and abetting? If one entity brings it in to do harm and you PARTICIPATE then you are also guilty of aiding and abetting them. damn you so lost in the souce. Man, where did you learn your grammar and spelling......reading the back of cereal boxes or something???
ProfD Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: ProfD The system will support him throught the courts in most cases if you decided to litigate... Bro...you rang but I think you're looking for brotha frankster in this thread.
Pioneer1 Posted April 11 Author Report Posted April 11 ProfD Oh I'm sorry bro, yeah...I "texted" YOU by accident....lol. Good catch. Glad it wasn't two females I was fucking with.....lol.
frankster Posted April 11 Report Posted April 11 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster The system will support him throught the courts in most cases if you decided to litigate... We don't know what "the system" will do, but we DO know that him burning that cross was a sho'nuff act of racism. He didn't need a "system" behind him driving him to do his dastardly deed. It is an act of racism because he did it in a place where systemic racism is. 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If he is being targeted....then how can it not be? Let me break it down in simpler terms..... There's a difference between: 1. WHAT caused something and 2. That "something" actually causing something else. Two different concepts..... Now follow me as I draw you an illustration. A man, who is bipolar....attempts suicide. He's hospitalized. He get's out. A year later he's readmitted to the hospital for assaulting his aunt who he's staying with. Still with me? Ok... His BIPOLAR is that "what" that caused both hospital stays But his first hospital stay did not cause his second. There's a connection. That connection is that he's bipolar. But the first hospitalization didn't CAUSE the second. The UNDERLYING FACTOR (him being bipolar) caused both! Did I make it plain for you? Yes.....His Affliction is the cause in both cases. Racism is an affliction He having been in prison can now become a contributing factor in his recividism 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Some where what you would consider white..... Christians who were not Catholic were burned.... Ok, so there were other factors like religion and ethnicity. However RACE was a major factor. The idea of race as we understand it today was not known then 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: No...the Sabaean people came from Africa....Yemen is part of the Arabian peninsula. Ok. I don't know TOO much about the Sabaen people so I'll leave that part alone. cool 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Many black Arabs are in Positions of leadership from time immemorial....the black arabs can hold any position in Arab society. There are many Black Arabs in Iraq, Palestine, and even in Syria and Jordan. How many have you seen make President or are in leadership positions? I have seen it in Arabia... and the Arabian Ruling Class Depending on your definition of race to most Western eyes they are all "sand nyggrs" 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If you are coerce into doing something....then you not guilty of it According to WHO'S law? The one you made up..lol. Its called the "The duress defense"...look it up 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Anybody who agree with you is drinking the same cool aid.....the Government done admitted to it and here you are making excuses and blaming the victim....sheesh Speaking of "aid"..... Ever heard of aiding and abetting? If one entity brings it in to do harm and you PARTICIPATE then you are also guilty of aiding and abetting them. Not if it is "Entrapment" 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: damn you so lost in the souce. Man, where did you learn your grammar and spelling......reading the back of cereal boxes or something??? Self Taught
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