Black American vs AfroAmerican

Pioneer1 · January 24

On 1/23/2026 at 1:33 PM, aka Contrarian said:

Of course "high yellows"should not be given preferential treatment. But neither should their skin color automatically disqualify them for representing their people in beauty pageants, etc.

There are universal standards of beauty that have nothing to do with color, and the "cuteness" trait is found among all species.

It depends on who "their people" are, or what people you are referring to.

There are 2 distinct groups in the United States who are closely linked to eachother and usually overlap: Black American and AfroAmericans.

Black Americans are....as the title implies....people of the Black race who are American citizens.
AfroAmericans are the descendants of enslaved Africans who are primarily Black but mixed with other races to various degrees.
Almost to the point that many aren't even Black at all.

Miss "AfroAmerica" can feature light skinned contestants but not Miss Black America, in my opinion ofcourse.

ProfD · January 24

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

There are 2 distinct groups in the United States who are closely linked to eachother and usually overlap: Black American and AfroAmericans.

Right. Back in the day, I remember when Jamaican dudes didn't have too much love for their AfroAmerican brothas. The tension was high and killings were real.

It has calmed down over time. There's still not a solid alliance between AfroAmericans and Black Americans.

Pioneer1 · January 24

16 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Right. Back in the day, I remember when Jamaican dudes didn't have too much love for their AfroAmerican brothas. The tension was high and killings were real.

Squo?

I didn't know West Indians were beefing like THAT on the Eastcoast, lol.

In Michigan they didn't have much to do with AfroAmericans and there was often tension on jobs, but the only time you'd hear about a Jamaican or Haitian killing somebody is if there was some sort of criminal activity involved like rival drug gangs.

Infact, I didn't see a lot of real West Indian gangsters until I started going to Canada.
In America, most of the West Indians tended to be well educated and professional.....or business owners like restaurants and small shops.
It wasn't until I went to Toronto and saw a bunch of bruthaz in standing on the corner smoking weed and looking like the Wu Tang Clan in dreadlocks.
I stopped to greet them and couldn't understand WHAT them niggaz were saying...lol

"Whatta bumba clotta chat meh fa???"

Neely Fuller Jr. said, try to talk to the WRONG Black man on the street and you'll end up getting chased DOWN the street....lol.

aka Contrarian · January 24

12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

...There are 2 distinct groups in the United States who are closely linked to eachother and usually overlap: Black American and AfroAmericans.

@Pioneer1Whatever. In my tribal designations, Black American and African American are interchangeable and are terms that refer to this countries slave descendants. "Afro -American" is simply a generic slang.

Immigrant Africans and their American-born offspring are simply identified by their countries such as Nigerians and Kenyans . Actually, their surnames alone brand them. They are pure Africans who come to America and take advantage of the rights and benefits that the ancestors of the hybrid slave descents known as Black/African Americans fought and died for and, in my opinion, are like carpetbaggers.

Bottom line, there is no official termnology, and no consensus when it comes to categorizing America's negroid population. To white racists, of course, a nigger is a nigger.

The "Miss-fill-in-the-bank" pageants are just a lot of overrated superficial frivolity that set their own standards and rules. So be it.

As far the entertainment industry goes, like in every other sector, it appears that people of color in this country will just have to settle for whatever their minority status warrants.

The Oscars have just patted them on the head by recognizing the black-produced movie "Sinners" with 16 nominations.

Eat your crumbs and move on.

Pioneer1 · January 24

To most ignorant hardcore racists (some would argue that all racists are ignorant....but that's not so) Black is Black and it doesn't matter what a Black person calls themselves or what country they came from.

I said to the IGNORANT ones.

But the SOPHISTICATED and ELITE racists think differently.
They know that DIVIDE AND CONQUER is a strategy that has worked for them excellently over time, so they continue to employ it.

They may not like any Black people but they like some better than others based on their ability to use them and profit off of them.

For work, Africans are preferred.
For entertainment and AfroAmericans are preferred.

Troy · January 25

5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Black Americans are....as the title implies....people of the Black race who are American citizens.

Here again, your love for this arbitrary term leads to nonsensical conclusions. There is no meaningful difference between Black American, African American. Afro American, Colored American, or Negro American the terms change over time and to white people we are still all spooks LOL!

Being "Black" is about how and where you were raised our shared cultural experiences and here in American the legacy of enslavement is part of the culture. Booting people out of the ethnicity because you think their lips are too thin makes no sense.

Pioneer1 · January 25

Troy

Here again, your love for this arbitrary term leads to nonsensical conclusions. There is no meaningful difference between Black American, African American. Afro American, Colored American, or Negro American the terms change over time and to white people we are still all spooks LOL!

This is what happens when you don't control your own narrative.

With the exception of "AfroAmerican", most of those terms are titles GIVEN to us by White people
Titles that are not only inaccurate but confusing.

Dr. Amos Wilson said:

"Power is the ability to define reality and to have other people respond to your definition as if it were their own."

It's not about what THEY call us, but what WE choose to start calling ourselves that give whatever term we choose to use real meaning.

Now a lot of AfroAmericans are choosing to call themselves FBA which....although still not too accurate....carries more respect because it's a name we choose for ourselves instead of being branded with it like "negro" or "colored".

Being "Black" is about how and where you were raised our shared cultural experiences and here in American the legacy of enslavement is part of the culture.

If this is the case, what about the Sudanese or Congolese who came to the United States after 1965?
Since they aren't part of the culture or shared legacy of slavery, are THEY Black?

aka Contrarian · January 25

Nobody I know uses the term "Afro-American". As far as I'm concerned, it is an obsolete label like - "jive-assed nigga".

Over the past 50+years, "Black" is the most common word used when referring to America's slave descendants. Previously, Whites soliciously refrained from publicly calling us what was considered a derogatory term until we started calling ourselves that via the "Black is Beautiful" slogan embraced by the Black Panthers who took their cue from Malcom X. This all took place back in the late 1960s, and from that time forward we, as a people, proudly became "Black" with a capital "B"; going from an adjective to a noun.

The idea of blackness being "a state of mind" also came about during this era, presumably to promote inclusiveness, especially since such dynamic activists as Huey Newton, Angela Davis, and Malcom, himself, were light-skinned.

In the present, calling negroid Immigrants "African" suffices, because that is what they are, and nobody is confused as to what segment of the American population is being referred to when using that description.

This applies to West Indians as well.

ProfD · January 25

42 minutes ago, aka Contrarian said:

Nobody I know uses the term "Afro-American". As far as I'm concerned, it is an obsolete label like - "jive-assed nigga".

Well, you don't know me in real life but I think we're cool in this virtual realm.

I use FBA/AfroAmerican quite a bit to differentiate FBA (Foundational Black Americans) aka descendants of slaves from our Black brothas & sistas from abroad.

I've also replaced jive-assed n8gga with n8gglets.

Unlike Noah Webster, I will not be writing a dictionary any time soon.

Using words and phrases is enough to get the meaning and point across.

Pioneer1 · January 25

Cynique

Nobody I know uses the term "Afro-American". As far as I'm concerned, it is an obsolete label like - "jive-assed nigga".

Malcolm X routinely referred to our people as AfroAmericans.

But I understand why many of our people are reluctant to use the term because they often think of the Afro hairstyle when they hear it, lol.

Over the past 50+years, "Black" is the most common word used when referring to America's slave descendants. Previously, Whites soliciously refrained from publicly calling us what was considered a derogatory term until we started calling ourselves that via the "Black is Beautiful" slogan embraced by the Black Panthers who took their cue from Malcom X. This all took place back in the late 1960s, and from that time forward we, as a people, proudly became "Black" with a capital "B"; going from an adjective to a noun.

I use the word "Black" too.
However in honesty...it's an inaccurate and misleading term that should be replaced in my opinion.
Not only are very few people actually "Black", but when people not very familiar with the English language hear it...it confuses them as to why some people who look almost White are called Black while others who are darker but from a different race like the East Indians or some Latinos...aren't.

The idea of blackness being "a state of mind" also came about during this era, presumably to promote inclusiveness, especially since such dynamic activists as Huey Newton, Angela Davis, and Malcom, himself, were light-skinned.

The problem with basing Blackness on a "state of mind" is that White racists can easily infiltrate Black circles by pretentious means.

There are so many White people who are good at talking and sounding like a typical "AfroAmerican" even down to the very inflections on the voice that if you didn't see them in person, you'd think they WERE AfroAmerican.
Certainly they can do this online.

With such lax rules, they could easily steal the identify of AfroAmericans in a generation or two like they did with the Native Americans.

In the present, calling negroid Immigrants "African" suffices, because that is what they are, and nobody is confused as to what segment of the American population is being referred to when using that description.

2 issues with this:

1. What about the ones who actually gain their American citizenship?
They are no longer JUST African but are Americans too.

2. What about the descendants....2nd and 3rd generations...of those born here to those African immigrants who are clearly American not just legally but culturally two?
Should they just generically be labeled as "Africans' even though they as individuals are just as American culturally as anybody else?

aka Contrarian · January 25

All the above input proves is that "black" means different things to different people. Not surprising because as I have previously noted, there is no collective consciousness among American negroid people of color. I'm not trying to recruit others to my point of view and don't feel the need to further defend it.

I do find the possibility of people trying to "masquerade" as black, a ludicrous fear. As much as y'all bitch and moan about all the ongoing injustices of racism, why would anybody want to be black? Why would a white person want to be black? Why would a fair skinned person of color claim to be a "second class" citizen and all the baggage that comes with that if they were not intrinsically black??

The issue of what is and who are black is a slippery slope and I maintain that no one person is empowered enough to pass final judgment.

I've always felt that the diaspora of hybrid slave descendants over the hundreds of years have created their own unique culture and identity and deserved their own niche in the American annals. African immigrants and their American-born offspring are a different breed and can blaze their own trails.

At this point, I don't give a damn. We are what we are, and lotsa luck in making that work for you.

Ho-Hum. I remain me.

Pioneer1 · January 25

17 minutes ago, aka Contrarian said:

I do find the possibility of people trying to "masquerade" as black, a ludicrous fear. As much as y'all bitch and moan about all the ongoing injustices of racism, why would anybody want to be black? Why would a white person want to be black? Why would a fair skinned person of color claim to be a "second class" citizen and all the baggage that comes with that if they were not intrinsically black??

Whites will...as they often have...pretended to be "Black" in order to infiltrate AfroAmerican circles and manipulate them for social and political reasons.

Also, when Reparations are approved and distributed either now or in the future, there will be many Whites (and other races) who seek to take advantage of this by claiming AfroAmerican ancestry and bringing up a long lost Black grandmother or use some other trick or form of deception in order to reap the benefits.

You see them doing this right now by White people with blonde hair and blue eyes claiming to be Native Americans to get casinos and other benefits allotted to Native Americans.

Troy · January 25

13 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If this is the case, what about the Sudanese or Congolese who came to the United States after 1965?
Since they aren't part of the culture or shared legacy of slavery, are THEY Black?

Sure, if they identify as such. You can keep them out the Black club. I choose not to and welcome them with open arms.

Again, I assert rejecting, embracing, or assigning characteristics to people based upon how they look is simply dumb.

Pioneer1 · January 25

Troy

Sure, if they identify as such.

And that's the problem.
In your opinion people can identify however they CHOOSE to identify and that identity will be accepted.
I think this is a TERRIBLE mistake.

You can keep them out the Black club.

Yes you can.
White folks know who is and ain't White and do a pretty good job of gate keeping....lol.

If...by YOUR definition - not mine...being Black is linked to our ancestry and culture and the Congolese shares none of that, then they aren't Black and shouldn't be accepted as such.

I choose not to and welcome them with open arms.

Would you also welcome a man....who insists that he's a woman....with those same open arms?
It's the same thing.

Again, I assert rejecting, embracing, or assigning characteristics to people based upon how they look is simply dumb.

How one looks is PART of their characteristics...lol.

Again, would it be dumb for you to reject this person as a woman based on how they look?

Troy · January 25

If homey want to be a woman that is fine with me. I'm not sleeping with him, but I'm sure there is someone who would.

Genetics play a MAJOR role in determining one's gender (if you have a Y chromosome you are very likely gonna be a dude). While race, as has been demonstrated abundantly here, is PURELY arbitrary.

The problem with your reasoning is that you treat race the same way you treat gender.

Pioneer1 · January 25

Troy

20 minutes ago, Troy said:

Genetics play a MAJOR role in determining one's gender

Outside of a historical or traditional context, genetics plays little to no role in determining a person's gender.

THAT is a purely social construct.

20 minutes ago, Troy said:

The problem with your reasoning is that you treat race the same way you treat gender.

And the problem with your statement is it mixes apples with turnip greens....lol.

You're mixing genetic/phenotypical classification with social identity.

frankster · January 25

22 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

It depends on who "their people" are, or what people you are referring to.

Africans come in various forms..

22 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

There are 2 distinct groups in the United States who are closely linked to eachother and usually overlap: Black American and AfroAmericans.

The Racial Caste System is rooted in the idea of fomenting Intra-Racial Discrimination and seeming Privilege.

In order to whiten African descendants and provide Rich white men with legal extra marital sex partners(placage)
In a Social Pigmentocracy Black American and AfroAmericans are the same.....unmixed African - so to speak....as in white or caucasian

Mixed African depending on how much European features they exhibit were called octoroons quadroons mulatoo etc

22 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Black Americans are....as the title implies....people of the Black race who are American citizens.

The Racial Caste system led to the development in the African community of discrimination based on skin tone shade or complexion - as in colorism shadeism and featureism

22 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

AfroAmericans are the descendants of enslaved Africans who are primarily Black but mixed with other races to various degrees.
Almost to the point that many aren't even Black at all.

Your emphasis is on complexion....as the main if not the only deciding factor.

22 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Miss "AfroAmerica" can feature light skinned contestants but not Miss Black America, in my opinion ofcourse.

While you are using Black to denote Skin Tone and or Complexion

To me Black as in people usually refers to.....Descendants of EnSlaved Africans in the West

While Afro Which really references an Hair texture that is Natural or common to people of African descent or mixture.

Both terms are in a sense appropriate

I prefer to called descendants of Western enslaved Africans Black and all others Afro-Americans or add their nationalities as a suffix

Here is where problem can arise.

Africans who lived here in West and are not descendants of slaves but came direct from Africa as free persons and remained are then called what?

What are White persons born and bred on the African continent for generations then called?

Delano · January 26

I don't have bandwidth to play Blacker than Thou.

ProfD · January 26

5 hours ago, Delano said:

I don't have bandwidth to play Blacker than Thou.

Brotha @Delano...I see how you're going in 2026.

You're right....we have to use our bandwidth judiciously. Our time is finite & only getting shorter.

Troy · January 28

On 1/25/2026 at 1:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Outside of a historical or traditional context, genetics plays little to no role in determining a person's gender.

That is scientifically false.

On 1/25/2026 at 1:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

And the problem with your statement is it mixes apples with turnip greens....lol.

You're mixing genetic/phenotypical classification with social identity.

No Mr. Strawman I was rejecting the analogy YOU drew with Race and gender.

Troy · January 28

On 1/25/2026 at 2:03 PM, frankster said:

Africans who lived here in West and are not descendants of slaves but came direct from Africa as free persons and remained are then called what?

Some go by the country which is easiest for Americans to understand (ex. Nigeria). I imagine amongst themselves they go by their ethnicity (Yorba, Hausa, etc.)

Pioneer1 · January 29

frankster

Africans come in various forms..

True.
But at what point does a person STOP being African because there is little to no African blood running through their veins?

The Racial Caste System is rooted in the idea of fomenting Intra-Racial Discrimination and seeming Privilege.

True.

In a Social Pigmentocracy Black American and AfroAmericans are the same

Ofcourse.
Because in the System of so-called White Supremacy, ALL non-White people are the same regardless of color, shade, or degree of admixture.

However as AfroAmericans we can't afford to let others....especially our enemies...label or categorize us.

The Racial Caste system led to the development in the African community of discrimination based on skin tone shade or complexion - as in colorism shadeism and featureism

True again.
Part of the problem is in the English racial caste system (which America followed) they lumped everybody together and CALLED them "Black" regardless of the degree of Black ancestry they actually had.

The Spanish racial caste system was a little different where they actually made a separate races for their mixed offspring -Mestizo or Mulatto.
Actually this was more accurate.

Some say it's more divisive, but actually....the divisions exist between mixed race people and Black people REGARDLESS of what we want to call ourselves. Many if not most mixed people think they're better and often relate to White people more than unmixed Black people.
They think they look better and think they are smarter, and a lot of Black people feel this way also.
Calling EVERYBODY "Black" and lumping everybody into the same group was a formula for confusion.

Your emphasis is on complexion....as the main if not the only deciding factor.

How do you know?
I take in ALL of the obvious phenotypical feature into account, not just skin tone.
Actually calling someone "Black" or "White" to denote their race does this very thing!

If I went by complexion alone, I'd be calling all albinos White....lol.

To me Black as in people usually refers to.....Descendants of EnSlaved Africans in the West

While Afro Which really references an Hair texture that is Natural or common to people of African descent or mixture.

Both terms are in a sense appropriate

I prefer to called descendants of Western enslaved Africans Black and all others Afro-Americans or add their nationalities as a suffix

VGQ (Victim's Guaranteed Qualification)

Here is where problem can arise.

Africans who lived here in West and are not descendants of slaves but came direct from Africa as free persons and remained are then called what?

In my opinion, THEY should be the ones called "African Americans"....lol.

What are White persons born and bred on the African continent for generations then called?

Squatters....lol.

Delano

I don't have bandwidth to play Blacker than Thou.

But you have the bandwidth to insinuate that MLK was a homosexual?

Troy

That is scientifically false.

If it is, then produce data showing gender's "genetic" foundation.

ProfD · January 29

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

What are White persons born and bred on the African continent for generations then called?

Squatters....lol.

That's hilarious. Those white folks have only been there since the 1650s. That's a long time to be squatting.

Pioneer1 · January 29

4 hours ago, ProfD said:

That's hilarious. Those white folks have only been there since the 1650s. That's a long time to be squatting.

Maybe they were constipated.

Troy · Saturday at 01:22 PM

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

If it is, then produce data showing gender's "genetic" foundation.

Did you take high school biology? Do you know what X and Y chromosomes are?

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

In my opinion, THEY should be the ones called "African Americans"....lol

I’m gonna take a page out of pioneers playbook and relate an experience I had on my job. I knew a white guy from South Africa. He was explaining to me how his ancestors built a life in South Africa. I didn’t particularly care for the guy. He struck me as low-key racist, but any right, I said hey you’re an African-American. He said no I’m not, almost as if he was insulted. I thought that was kind of funny, but I did not argue the point.

Pioneer1 · Saturday at 01:43 PM

Troy

Did you take high school biology? Do you know what X and Y chromosomes are?

Can you PLEASE produce data showing that GENDER specifically biological or genetic?
That's a clear and concise question...lol.

I’m gonna take a page out of pioneers playbook and relate an experience I had on my job. I knew a white guy from South Africa. He was explaining to me how his ancestors built a life in South Africa. I didn’t particularly care for the guy. He struck me as low-key racist, but any right, I said hey you’re an African-American. He said no I’m not, almost as if he was insulted. I thought that was kind of funny, but I did not argue the point.

This isn't a problem UNLESS a society's thinking and vocabulary is limited.

I personally have 2 definitions for the word "African".
Not one...but 2.
One is racial, and the other is regional.

African 1: A person from the continent of Africa
African 2: Any person predominately of sub-Saharan African descent regardless of where they reside on the planet

By my first definition, that may would absolutely be considered an African American (if he had American citizenship.....lol).
By my second definition, no he wouldn't.

frankster · Saturday at 05:07 PM

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

Africans come in various forms..

True.
But at what point does a person STOP being African because there is little to no African blood running through their veins?

If by blood you are referencing biology.

So long as they remain human they are African...All humans are African

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

The Racial Caste System is rooted in the idea of fomenting Intra-Racial Discrimination and seeming Privilege.

True.

cool

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

In a Social Pigmentocracy Black American and AfroAmericans are the same

Ofcourse.
Because in the System of so-called White Supremacy, ALL non-White people are the same regardless of color, shade, or degree of admixture.

However as AfroAmericans we can't afford to let others....especially our enemies...label or categorize us.

They not only trying to label us.....but divide us

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

The Racial Caste system led to the development in the African community of discrimination based on skin tone shade or complexion - as in colorism shadeism and featureism

True again.
Part of the problem is in the English racial caste system (which America followed) they lumped everybody together and CALLED them "Black" regardless of the degree of Black ancestry they actually had.

Every body has black (as in African) Ancestry...

Now when it comes to ethnicity and along the lines on which the differ phenotypically

Politically society can stratify socially and hierarchically alone these lines of demarcation

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

The Spanish racial caste system was a little different where they actually made a separate races for their mixed offspring -Mestizo or Mulatto.
Actually this was more accurate.

Only when one accepts the idea of Race and Races socially.

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Some say it's more divisive, but actually....the divisions exist between mixed race people and Black people REGARDLESS of what we want to call ourselves. Many if not most mixed people think they're better and often relate to White people more than unmixed Black people.
They think they look better and think they are smarter, and a lot of Black people feel this way also.

This is a direct result of Racial prejudiced being socialized taught and enforced.

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Calling EVERYBODY "Black" and lumping everybody into the same group was a formula for confusion.

When one looks beyond phenotype....it is truth

Phenotype denotes heritage travel history diet culture and geography.....not humanity

The confusion stems from ignorance and wickedness in the pursuit of privilege power and wealth at the expense of the weak.

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Your emphasis is on complexion....as the main if not the only deciding factor.

How do you know?

I have read what you post....and came to that conclusion

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

I take in ALL of the obvious phenotypical feature into account, not just skin tone.

Never said that you did not do so.....

I said Your emphasis is on complexion as in Skin Color...which is as the architects of Racism would have it and want it

You have been schooled by racist ideology to define people along these lines

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Actually calling someone "Black" or "White" to denote their race does this very thing!

It contextualize their relevant social position in society

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

If I went by complexion alone, I'd be calling all albinos White....lol.

Many do pass for White....

Many a racist do accept them as white until they realize their ancestry....

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

To me Black as in people usually refers to.....Descendants of EnSlaved Africans in the West

While Afro Which really references an Hair texture that is Natural or common to people of African descent or mixture.

Both terms are in a sense appropriate

I prefer to called descendants of Western enslaved Africans Black and all others Afro-Americans or add their nationalities as a suffix

VGQ (Victim's Guaranteed Qualification)

Not sure what you intend for that to mean...

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Here is where problem can arise.

Africans who lived here in West and are not descendants of slaves but came direct from Africa as free persons and remained are then called what?

In my opinion, THEY should be the ones called "African Americans"....lol.

Cool

On 1/28/2026 at 9:01 PM, Pioneer1 said:

What are White persons born and bred on the African continent for generations then called?

Squatters....lol.

To reflect back your first query....

Then the question is at what point does the squatters become Africans?

Pioneer1 · Saturday at 07:41 PM

frankster

If by blood you are referencing biology.

I mean specific genes that determine phenotype, and thus race.

So long as they remain human they are African...All humans are African

I remember you saying this before.
I didn't believe it then, and I don't believe it now...lol.

"Out of Africa" is a THEORY, not a proven scientific fact.

They not only trying to label us.....but divide us

Who are the "us" you speak of?
I ask because, we may already BE divided and perhaps they are simply exploiting that division.

Although we all may be called Black, most mixed people don't see themselves the same as me and I don't see them as being the same either.

Every body has black (as in African) Ancestry...

I don't believe that.

I believe Whites came from Black people, but not African Black people.

Only when one accepts the idea of Race and Races socially.

Which would make sense since we're living in a society that accepts and respects it also.

This is a direct result of Racial prejudiced being socialized taught and enforced.

True.
It is ingrained into the children from not only the home but the schools as well as the media and society in general.

When one looks beyond phenotype....it is truth

However race is primarily determined BY phenotype.
If you look beyond phenotype then there is no need to talk about race.

Never said that you did not do so.....

I said Your emphasis is on complexion as in Skin Color...which is as the architects of Racism would have it and want it

You have been schooled by racist ideology to define people along these lines

You don't need to be school by anyone to do this.
People naturally categorize themselves by age, sex, and even color is the differences are vast enough.

Not sure what you intend for that to mean...

Lol....
VGQ is a term Neely Fuller Jr. coined that means Victim's Guaranteed Qualification.

He sad that in a system as vast and as traumatic as this System of White supremacy Racism, because nobody has yet to figure out the solution of how to overcome and destroy the system and free themselves....

1. No opinion or idea is better than the other because none of them have worked to free us from this System yet.
So unless they are outrageously false or harmful, all opinions and ideas from the victims of Racism should be respected and allowed to be expressed.

2. Since people deal with stress, trauma, and frustration in different ways....victims of Racism should be allowed to deal with Racism in their own unique way in which ever way helps them cope with it.

Then the question is at what point does the squatters become Africans?

As I explained to Troy in another thread, I have 2 definitions for the word "African".

1. Anyone born and raised on the continent of Africa
2. Anyone predominately of sub-Saharan African ancestral descent regardless of where they reside on the planet.

frankster · Saturday at 09:40 PM

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

If by blood you are referencing biology.

I mean specific genes that determine phenotype, and thus race.

It is the same set of gene that is responsible for all phenotypic variation....the differences arise from how they are express and to what degree from on or off

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

So long as they remain human they are African...All humans are African

I remember you saying this before.
I didn't believe it then, and I don't believe it now...lol.

"Out of Africa" is a THEORY, not a proven scientific fact.

True

It is also back up by genetics.

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

They not only trying to label us.....but divide us

Who are the "us" you speak of?

Humans.

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

I ask because, we may already BE divided and perhaps they are simply exploiting that division.

Yes.... we have been divide

Yes....they are exploiting this division

The ideology of Races and Racism is a way of maintaining this division

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Although we all may be called Black, most mixed people don't see themselves the same as me and I don't see them as being the same either.

True....that is a result of historical racism

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Every body has black (as in African) Ancestry...

I don't believe that.

I believe Whites came from Black people, but not African Black people.

All peoples come from black African people.

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Only when one accepts the idea of Race and Races socially.

Which would make sense since we're living in a society that accepts and respects it also.

No...

One should accept that we are all of the human race but ethnically diverse.

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

This is a direct result of Racial prejudiced being socialized taught and enforced.

True.
It is ingrained into the children from not only the home but the schools as well as the media and society in general.

We concur

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

When one looks beyond phenotype....it is truth

However race is primarily determined BY phenotype.

Yes...a purposely flawed misapplication to facilitate persecution of the weak

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

If you look beyond phenotype then there is no need to talk about race.

Exactly

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Never said that you did not do so.....

I said Your emphasis is on complexion as in Skin Color...which is as the architects of Racism would have it and want it

You have been schooled by racist ideology to define people along these lines

You don't need to be school by anyone to do this.
People naturally categorize themselves by age, sex, and even color is the differences are vast enough.

No....that is not entirely true

People primarily come together around shared interests and values....age sex and color are culturally inculcated

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Not sure what you intend for that to mean...

Lol....
VGQ is a term Neely Fuller Jr. coined that means Victim's Guaranteed Qualification.

He sad that in a system as vast and as traumatic as this System of White supremacy Racism, because nobody has yet to figure out the solution of how to overcome and destroy the system and free themselves....

1. No opinion or idea is better than the other because none of them have worked to free us from this System yet.
So unless they are outrageously false or harmful, all opinions and ideas from the victims of Racism should be respected and allowed to be expressed.

2. Since people deal with stress, trauma, and frustration in different ways....victims of Racism should be allowed to deal with Racism in their own unique way in which ever way helps them cope with it.

There is Adaptation and Maladaptation....

Some ideas are destructive whilst others are constructive

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

Then the question is at what point does the squatters become Africans?

As I explained to Troy in another thread, I have 2 definitions for the word "African".

1. Anyone born and raised on the continent of Africa

Then by this definition the White South Africans are now Africans??

I disagree..

1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said:

2. Anyone predominately of sub-Saharan African ancestral descent regardless of where they reside on the planet.

Biologically Africa is the proverbial Garden of Eden making Africans Adam and Eve...so humans are all Africans

I would accept this...if we are trying to delineate ethnicity

Pioneer1 · Saturday at 10:34 PM

frankster

5 hours ago, frankster said:

So long as they remain human they are African...All humans are African

58 minutes ago, frankster said:

Then by this definition the White South Africans are now Africans??

I disagree..

frankster · Sunday at 11:00 AM

12 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

So long as they remain human they are African...All humans are African

13 hours ago, frankster said:

Then by this definition the White South Africans are now Africans??

I disagree..

We are all of the African (human)Race....

Within Africa there are over 2000 ethnicities

The white South Africans are not Africans - "NOW".......they have always been Africans by descent

They are not Africans because they were now born and bred on the continent of Africa.....but because they are descendants of Africans

White South Africans might well be the starting of yet another new ethnicity on the continent......Afrikaans/Boer???

Pioneer1 · Sunday at 01:27 PM

frankster

It is the same set of gene that is responsible for all phenotypic variation....the differences arise from how they are express and to what degree from on or off

That is a great explanation for the reality OF race...lol.
Those differences still exist, regardless of cause or reason.

It is also back up by genetics.

Oh?
Do genes have a "return address" on them like mail where you can trace back the location of their origin?

Humans

If that's the cases then I have a statement and a question:

1. Humans are ALREADY divided, so "they" are wasting their time trying to invent something that has already been invented...lol

2. You said: They not only trying to label us.....but divide us

My question is, who are the "they" you say are trying to divide humans?
Are THEY humans too?

Yes....they are exploiting this division

Again, I'll await your response in reference to the "they" you speak of.

The ideology of Races and Racism is a way of maintaining this division

The reality of Race exists outside of ideology.
Racism is merely the focus on race and the frequent weaponizing of it.

Race exists outside of Racism....just like the reality of Sexual differences exist outside of Sexism.

All peoples come from black African people.

I think we've already covered that I don't believe that, so no sense in beating a dead horse...lol.

One should accept that we are all of the human race but ethnically diverse.

Why should one accept that human beings are a "race"?
A race is a category OF a similar group.
What other groups are similar to human beings that we can be considered a category as humanity?

Yes...a purposely flawed misapplication to facilitate persecution of the weak

Or simply another way of identifying people absence of malice.

No....that is not entirely true

People primarily come together around shared interests and values....age sex and color are culturally inculcated

Your first associates aren't those you share interests and values with but are your FAMILY - lineage - RACE
By nature you share interests and values with those WITH IN your race.

Biologically Africa is the proverbial Garden of Eden making Africans Adam and Eve

Not sure about Eve, but the word "Adam" has a specific meaning in Hebrew.
Adam may have come from Africa, but Black people didn't come from an "Adam".

The white South Africans are not Africans - "NOW".......they have always been Africans by descent

They are not Africans because they were now born and bred on the continent of Africa.....but because they are descendants of Africans

If you believe this to be the case, then perhaps you don't have a problem WITH these White Africans coming back "home" to take their rightful place on their ancestral African soil...lol.

Perhaps Donald Trump has a point when he says stop persecuting the White South Africans!

Maybe when they first started arriving hundreds of years ago, instead of seeing it as an occupation and invasion....the Zulus and other Africans should have had a Welcoming Home party for their long lost fellow White "African bretheren" !

"Whaddup fam!
Where yall niggaz been???
You were gone for I don't know how long....
Now yall dressed up and acting like you don't know nobody, huh?"

frankster · Sunday at 05:06 PM

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

It is the same set of gene that is responsible for all phenotypic variation....the differences arise from how they are express and to what degree from on or off

That is a great explanation for the reality OF race...lol.
Those differences still exist, regardless of cause or reason.

Yes....One human Race Genetically...

Yes...and the cause in one word epigenetic

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

It is also back up by genetics.

Oh?
Do genes have a "return address" on them like mail where you can trace back the location of their origin?

Yes....

Genes can be traced back....Y-chromosome DNA and Mitochondrial DNA - passed on by Father and Mother respectively.

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Humans

If that's the cases then I have a statement and a question:

1. Humans are ALREADY divided, so "they" are wasting their time trying to invent something that has already been invented...lol

Humans are divided social politically geographically...these division were and are human doings.

The now current devision is about Power and Resource by various factions of humanity.

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

2. You said: They not only trying to label us.....but divide us

My question is, who are the "they" you say are trying to divide humans?
Are THEY humans too?

Yes...

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Yes....they are exploiting this division

Again, I'll await your response in reference to the "they" you speak of.

Humans

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The ideology of Races and Racism is a way of maintaining this division

The reality of Race exists outside of ideology.
Racism is merely the focus on race and the frequent weaponizing of it.

Race exists outside of Racism....just like the reality of Sexual differences exist outside of Sexism.

Race and racism is a socio-political ideology predicated on ethnic differences..

So is Sexism a socio-political ideology predicated on sexual differences..

Sex and ethnicity exist outside of isms.

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

All peoples come from black African people.

I think we've already covered that I don't believe that, so no sense in beating a dead horse...lol.

cool

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

One should accept that we are all of the human race but ethnically diverse.

Why should one accept that human beings are a "race"?
A race is a category OF a similar group.
What other groups are similar to human beings that we can be considered a category as humanity?

All human beings are more similar to other humans beings than too any other existing living beings.....hence the Human race

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Yes...a purposely flawed misapplication to facilitate persecution of the weak

Or simply another way of identifying people absence of malice.

It was malice and greed

The social-political ideology of race races and racism was created to facilitate social power hierarchy exploitation and persecution.

By constructing and enforcing an artificial divisions they can have a in group(included) and an out group(other, excluded).

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

No....that is not entirely true

People primarily come together around shared interests and values....age sex and color are culturally inculcated

Your first associates aren't those you share interests and values with but are your FAMILY - lineage - RACE

Associating with and categorizing yourself as belong to is two different thing

Associating deals with relationship context and proximity

Categorizing deals with shared qualities or similar characteristics for classification

We do not pick our family members...we have little choice in the matter

We do often pick our friends....we have more of a choice in the matter

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

By nature you share interests and values with those WITH IN your race.

No.....not by Nature

But as a result of Enforced Social Engineering and Political Manipulation.

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Biologically Africa is the proverbial Garden of Eden making Africans Adam and Eve

Not sure about Eve, but the word "Adam" has a specific meaning in Hebrew.
Adam may have come from Africa, but Black people didn't come from an "Adam".

The first human beings came from Africa

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The white South Africans are not Africans - "NOW".......they have always been Africans by descent

They are not Africans because they were now born and bred on the continent of Africa.....but because they are descendants of Africans

If you believe this to be the case, then perhaps you don't have a problem WITH these White Africans coming back "home" to take their rightful place on their ancestral African soil...lol.

No....they should not take.

That must be negotiate with your current relatives occupying the land.

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Perhaps Donald Trump has a point when he says stop persecuting the White South Africans!

I do not see where white South Africans are being persecuted in mass or as a whole.

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Maybe when they first started arriving hundreds of years ago, instead of seeing it as an occupation and invasion....the Zulus and other Africans should have had a Welcoming Home party for their long lost fellow White "African bretheren" !

That may very well have been the case as it often was and is

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

"Whaddup fam!
Where yall niggaz been???
You were gone for I don't know how long....
Now yall dressed up and acting like you don't know nobody, huh?"

You cannot go to your great great great great great grand parents home or land and see you cousins 20times remove living there, their direct ancestors having never left and demand or take a room or plot of land without due diligence or respect and not expect to cause acrimony and or worst

My Mother's uncle threatened his brother over land and properties their father bequeath to them both as beneficiaries....only because he left for twenty yrs

Pioneer1 · Sunday at 09:18 PM

frankster

Yes....One human Race Genetically...

There is no "one human race" any more than there is one ice cream flavor.

Genes can be traced back....Y-chromosome DNA and Mitochondrial DNA - passed on by Father and Mother respectively.

I understand, but can they be traced back to their LOCATION OF ORIGIN?

Humans are divided social politically geographically...these division were and are human doings.

True
They are also divided sexually and racially and religiously.

Some divisions are natural, others are man made.

The now current devision is about Power and Resource by various factions of humanity.

As was the case through out most of human history.

Race and racism is a socio-political ideology predicated on ethnic differences..

Some would argue that ethnic differences ARE racial differences too, since both ethnic and race come from the same Greek root word "ethnos".

So is Sexism a socio-political ideology predicated on sexual differences..
Sex and ethnicity exist outside of isms.

How so?
Xenophobia is a form of ethnic hatred or prejudice.
So is tribalism.

All human beings are more similar to other humans beings than too any other existing living beings.....hence the Human race

All ice cream is similar in that it's all cold and creamy.
But it still comes in different flavors...lol.

The social-political ideology of race races and racism was created to facilitate social power hierarchy exploitation and persecution.

By constructing and enforcing an artificial divisions they can have a in group(included) and an out group(other, excluded).

The divisions already existed, they didn't construct them.
They exploited them.

Associating with and categorizing yourself as belong to is two different thing

Associating deals with relationship context and proximity

Categorizing deals with shared qualities or similar characteristics for classification

We do not pick our family members...we have little choice in the matter

We do often pick our friends....we have more of a choice in the matter

Facts.

No.....not by Nature

But as a result of Enforced Social Engineering and Political Manipulation.

By nature as well.
Those of the same race share the same phenotype, and will usually share the same preferences for tastes, smells, hair styles, foods, color coordination, etc...

Black people around the planet tend to like spicier food than Whites regardless of the culture both are raised in.
Black people around the planet tend to be more fertile than Whites regardless of the culture both are raised in.

No....they should not take.

That must be negotiate with your current relatives occupying the land.

What about those BORN on the land?
Does the White baby BORN on that land have the same rights as a Black baby BORN on that land, since...you claim...they're both "African"?

Troy · Tuesday at 12:34 AM

On 1/31/2026 at 8:43 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Can you PLEASE produce data showing that GENDER specifically biological or genetic?

I'm learning one cannot have a meaningful conversation with others on a given subject if there is not a basic foundation of shared knowledge.

On 1/31/2026 at 2:41 PM, Pioneer1 said:

I mean specific genes that determine phenotype, and thus race.

Again, without a basic foundation confusion ensues. What exacerbates the problem is when one is not interested in learning.

On 2/1/2026 at 4:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Genes can be traced back....Y-chromosome DNA and Mitochondrial DNA - passed on by Father and Mother respectively.

I understand, but can they be traced back to their LOCATION OF ORIGIN?

Again, if you really understood you would know the answer to the question.

frankster · Tuesday at 02:25 AM

On 2/1/2026 at 4:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

Yes....One human Race Genetically...

There is no "one human race" any more than there is one ice cream flavor.

Where Humanity is Cream

Then Flavor is like unto ethnicity

On 2/1/2026 at 4:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Genes can be traced back....Y-chromosome DNA and Mitochondrial DNA - passed on by Father and Mother respectively.

I understand, but can they be traced back to their LOCATION OF ORIGIN?

Isn't that one of the advertised purpose of those genealogy companies to ascertain where you ancestors originate....like Ancestor.com and 23andme.

Current understanding among the lay public is that they can.....

~~My personally opinion is that is not exactly what they do or are doing~~

~~They are aggregating current DNA as to where they are most abundant in the so-called old world.....~~

~~It has little bearing on where your ancestors originated from but more on where your DNA co hurts are now.....~~

When you combine Migration patterns History Anthropology Archeology and Genealogy....then you can make a very accurate guess as to where your ancestors are from

On 2/1/2026 at 4:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Humans are divided social politically geographically...these division were and are human doings.

True
They are also divided sexually and racially and religiously.

Some divisions are natural, others are man made.

Yes

On 2/1/2026 at 4:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

The now current devision is about Power and Resource by various factions of humanity.

As was the case through out most of human history.

Race and racism is a socio-political ideology predicated on ethnic differences..

Some would argue that ethnic differences ARE racial differences too, since both ethnic and race come from the same Greek root word "ethnos".

That maybe so....but Race has no basis in genetics.

On 2/1/2026 at 4:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

So is Sexism a socio-political ideology predicated on sexual differences..
Sex and ethnicity exist outside of isms.

How so?
Xenophobia is a form of ethnic hatred or prejudice.
So is tribalism.

Xenophobia and Tribalism are both Socio-political ideological system based in fear hate and loyalty

On 2/1/2026 at 4:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

All human beings are more similar to other humans beings than too any other existing living beings.....hence the Human race

All ice cream is similar in that it's all cold and creamy.
But it still comes in different flavors...lol.

No two human beings are (exactly) the same

On 2/1/2026 at 4:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

The social-political ideology of race races and racism was created to facilitate social power hierarchy exploitation and persecution.

By constructing and enforcing an artificial divisions they can have a in group(included) and an out group(other, excluded).

The divisions already existed, they didn't construct them.
They exploited them.

Difference tend to be mostly Natural

Divisions tend to be mostly Artificial

On 2/1/2026 at 4:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Associating with and categorizing yourself as belong to is two different thing

Associating deals with relationship context and proximity

Categorizing deals with shared qualities or similar characteristics for classification

We do not pick our family members...we have little choice in the matter

We do often pick our friends....we have more of a choice in the matter

Facts.

cool

On 2/1/2026 at 4:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

No.....not by Nature

But as a result of Enforced Social Engineering and Political Manipulation.

By nature as well.
Those of the same race share the same phenotype, and will usually share the same preferences for tastes, smells, hair styles, foods, color coordination, etc...

That's Culture

On 2/1/2026 at 4:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Black people around the planet tend to like spicier food than Whites regardless of the culture both are raised in.

That's Heritage

On 2/1/2026 at 4:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Black people around the planet tend to be more fertile than Whites regardless of the culture both are raised in.

Just another of many differences among peoples....no two individuals or peoples are the same - some are better some things while others are better at other things

On 2/1/2026 at 4:18 PM, Pioneer1 said:

No....they should not take.

That must be negotiate with your current relatives occupying the land.

What about those BORN on the land?
Does the White baby BORN on that land have the same rights as a Black baby BORN on that land, since...you claim...they're both "African"?

They both have a different history and relationship with the particular Land....that must be weight - and negotiated.

Pioneer1 · Tuesday at 08:41 PM

Troy

I'm learning one cannot have a meaningful conversation with others on a given subject if there is not a basic foundation of shared knowledge.

Nor can you have a meaningful conversation on a given subject with others if your mind is already made up and you refuse to entertain an alternative point of view...lol.

Gender is a social construct.
It's based in PSYCHLOGY and SOCIOLOGY...not genetics.
There is no DNA or genes that you can point to as traits of a "gender".

frankster

Where Humanity is Cream

Then Flavor is like unto ethnicity

You can make that comparison.
Or perhaps you can say that the COLOR of the ice cream is the race where as the FLAVOR of it is it's ethnicity....lol.

Racial categorization is quite fluid.

Isn't that one of the advertised purpose of those genealogy companies to ascertain where you ancestors originate....like Ancestor.com and 23andme.

Yes.

And I question THAT as well.

Current understanding among the lay public is that they can.....

Genes aren't tied to land or geography.
You can determine who descended from WHO but not necessarily from WHERE any more than you can determine whether the wine you drink came from grapes descended from those grown in California or France.

~~My personally opinion is that is not exactly what they do or are doing~~

~~They are aggregating current DNA as to where they are most abundant in the so-called old world.....~~

~~It has little bearing on where your ancestors originated from but more on where your DNA co hurts are now.....~~

Exactly.

They are taking DNA samples and matching them with where on the planet there seems to be a pool of others with those same genes and THEORIZING that as the "origin" of that particular group.

Going by that method....
Most AfroAmericans will show "origins" of being from the Southern United States.
But then going further back....it can also show "origins" of being from the Caribbean.
But going further back...it can also show "origins" of being from West Africa.
But going further back....we know that most West Africans migrated to that region from Northern and Eastern Africa and THAT will be the new "origin".
It goes on and on.

When you combine Migration patterns History Anthropology Archeology and Genealogy....then you can make a very accurate guess as to where your ancestors are from

WHICH ancestors?
That's the issue.
My Parents are my Ancestors......and so are my Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great Grand Parents.

One time period will show ONE geographical location but another time period before familial migration will show ANOTHER geographical location.

That's the point I'm getting at.

You can only know who came from WHO....but not the region those genes originated from.

That maybe so....but Race has no basis in genetics.

Skin color does.
Hair texture does
.....race is usually predicated on these characteristics among others.

They both have a different history and relationship with the particular Land....that must be weight - and negotiated.

In other words, you're not sure...lol.

Troy · 2026-02-04T05:19:40Z

8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Gender is a social construct.
It's based in PSYCHLOGY and SOCIOLOGY...not genetics.
There is no DNA or genes that you can point to as traits of a "gender".

Oh wait, are you playing that non-binary gender is a social construct game? I’m surprised that you you buy into that but can’t fathom that race is a social construct.

So yes, you are correct. Being a male or a woman is a social construct.

But not in the same way that race is.

99% of the people running around with penises are going to be “men” with Y chromosomes.

What astonishes me is your ability to wrap your head around that, but you can’t fathom there is no genetic basis for race. Go figure…

Pioneer1 · 2026-02-04T09:04:29Z

Troy

3 hours ago, Troy said:

So yes, you are correct. Being a male or a woman is a social construct.

I didn't say being a male or woman was a social construct.

3 hours ago, Troy said:

What astonishes me is your ability to wrap your head around that, but you can’t fathom there is no genetic basis for race. Go figure…

First thing's first.......
Before we agree on what race is "based on" you must first acknowledge that there ARE multiple races among humanity.

Troy · 2026-02-04T12:57:49Z

3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Before we agree on what race is "based on" you must first acknowledge that there ARE multiple races among humanity.

for the thousandth time, race is a social construct, not based in genetics.

The concept of race should be dispense with because it serves no other purpose than to facilitate racism.

Black people are subhuman and it’s OK to enslave them.

This belief makes racism “real” and something we need to contend with, but that does not mean it has a basis in genetics.

“Race” is obviously wrong indeed the reason for this website is to combat racism.

One can apply the same argument to gender, which is a social construct. All women should wear dresses wear and lipstick and be subservient to men. This is all socially determined and have nothing to do with genetics.

Being a female is genetic.

Pioneer1 · 2026-02-04T19:35:43Z

6 hours ago, Troy said:

for the thousandth time, race is a social construct, not based in genetics.

The concept of race should be dispense with because it serves no other purpose than to facilitate racism.

Black people are subhuman and it’s OK to enslave them.

This belief makes racism “real” and something we need to contend with, but that does not mean it has a basis in genetics.

“Race” is obviously wrong indeed the reason for this website is to combat racism.

One can apply the same argument to gender, which is a social construct. All women should wear dresses wear and lipstick and be subservient to men. This is all socially determined and have nothing to do with genetics.

Being a female is genetic.

Nice grandstand.....lol.........but I didn't see an ANSWER to my question anywhere up there.

Music is a social construct, and there are multiple genres of music.
Politics is a social construct, and there are multiple political parties.

Since you believe that race is a social construct, do you believe that there are MULTIPLE RACES?

The question is quite clear and concise.

frankster · 2026-02-05T04:12:23Z

On 2/3/2026 at 3:41 PM, Pioneer1 said:

frankster

Where Humanity is Cream

Then Flavor is like unto ethnicity

You can make that comparison.
Or perhaps you can say that the COLOR of the ice cream is the race where as the FLAVOR of it is it's ethnicity....lol.

Racial categorization is quite fluid.

Yes...you can

On 2/3/2026 at 3:41 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Isn't that one of the advertised purpose of those genealogy companies to ascertain where you ancestors originate....like Ancestor.com and 23andme.

Yes.

And I question THAT as well.

Well as you should

They have an agenda....that is not advertise - One can only wonder what they want with all those DNA??

On 2/3/2026 at 3:41 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Current understanding among the lay public is that they can.....

Genes aren't tied to land or geography.

No they are not....but land and geography do influence genes - those influences are then passed on

On 2/3/2026 at 3:41 PM, Pioneer1 said:

You can determine who descended from WHO but not necessarily from WHERE any more than you can determine whether the wine you drink came from grapes descended from those grown in California or France.

Poor choice as an example

Professional Sommeliers or Wine Connoisseur can and do....as it is part of how they make their living.

On 2/3/2026 at 3:41 PM, Pioneer1 said:

~~My personally opinion is that is not exactly what they do or are doing~~

~~They are aggregating current DNA as to where they are most abundant in the so-called old world.....~~

~~It has little bearing on where your ancestors originated from but more on where your DNA co hurts are now.....~~

Exactly.

They are taking DNA samples and matching them with where on the planet there seems to be a pool of others with those same genes and THEORIZING that as the "origin" of that particular group.

Yes....so it seems

On 2/3/2026 at 3:41 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Going by that method....
Most AfroAmericans will show "origins" of being from the Southern United States.
But then going further back....it can also show "origins" of being from the Caribbean.
But going further back...it can also show "origins" of being from West Africa.
But going further back....we know that most West Africans migrated to that region from Northern and Eastern Africa and THAT will be the new "origin".
It goes on and on.

seems reasonable...

On 2/3/2026 at 3:41 PM, Pioneer1 said:

When you combine Migration patterns History Anthropology Archeology and Genealogy....then you can make a very accurate guess as to where your ancestors are from

WHICH ancestors?
That's the issue.
My Parents are my Ancestors......and so are my Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great Grand Parents.

It comes down to where you wish to stop.....but we know the source is African

On 2/3/2026 at 3:41 PM, Pioneer1 said:

One time period will show ONE geographical location but another time period before familial migration will show ANOTHER geographical location.

That's the point I'm getting at.

You can only know who came from WHO....but not the region those genes originated from.

True

But each geographic location leaves its mark on the gene (a mutation of sorts)....that mark can be thought of as the start of a new ethnicity.

So you may be able to or can tell where and when the mutation/variation first appeared.

On 2/3/2026 at 3:41 PM, Pioneer1 said:

That maybe so....but Race has no basis in genetics.

Skin color does.
Hair texture does
.....race is usually predicated on these characteristics among others.

Yes...Race as a social construct is a convention....where in varies attributes are agreed upon as it constituents.

just as one can predicated a whole new race on individuals who have red hair or eleven fingers

The same Genes are responsible for all the Variations....These Genes are common to and shared among human beings.

On 2/3/2026 at 3:41 PM, Pioneer1 said:

They both have a different history and relationship with the particular Land....that must be weight - and negotiated.

In other words, you're not sure...lol.

You haven't provide enough information....for me to be sure

admin · 2026-02-05T04:52:32Z

9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Since you believe that race is a social construct, do you believe that there are MULTIPLE RACES?

this is Troy for some reason my my phone forgot my user account.

Of course I don’t believe in multiple races! I thought I made that abundantly clear over the years.

I recognize that there are people, like you, who believe in multiple races. But that doesn’t make it true.

And there are those who are sufficiently powerful enough to exploit the nonsensical belief, people have in multiple races and use it as a tactic to divide us for their personal benefit.

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