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Delano

Thinking about thinking

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Delano    390

Can you describe how you think? Its a pretty difficult question. 

@Troy

@Cynique 

This is open to anyone. 

A different way if answer the question is as follows. Can you describe the difference between hiw it feels  when you are thinking and you solve a problem and when you don't.  However dont refer to the emotional or physical sensations.  Just use mental ones.

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Troy    982

Is this a trick question? In order to answer the question, you have to think about it ;)  It is always a problem when the thing you are trying to evaluate requires the thing itself.

Often solutions to problems just come to me. Sometimes when I'm trying to do something with this website, I'll just "sleep on it" and the solution comes to me as if it was obvious.  I don't even rack my brain anymore when a problem presents itself that I can't immediately resolve.  I just wait for it to come to me.

I guess my initial reaction is that I don't know how I think. I feel like any answer I'd come up with would just be a story I've conjured up to fill in the blanks of what I don't or perhaps can't know. 

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Pioneer1    468

Lol......
It's specifically aimed @ Troy and Cynique....but it's "open to anyone".


I'm a strong proponent of accuracy and truth.
Not necessarily "judgement" or deciding what is "right" or what is "wrong"...but more so what is TRUE and what is FALSE.

So when I go to solve a problem I try to factor in as much truth or accurate information about the issue as I can.

For example......
A few years ago one of the employees under me was accused by an employee from another department of sexual harassment.
The upper management wanted to immediately write him up and some even wanted to let him go citing "zero tolerance" for sexual misconduct.
One employee who wasn't even in management offered to call the police and he barely even knew the facts of the case, but he was a known trouble maker and racist.

Sex is a natural thing and I know it's natural for young men to hit on women and try to have sex with them, so I wasn't emotional or angry about it I just knew he was a good worker and I wanted the FACTS about what he did to see how best to defend him.

The first thing I did was sit the brother down and ask him to tell me EXACTLY what happened, not what he thought I wanted to hear.
After apologizing and grinning and embarrassment on his part I got him to finally admit what he did, which was a bit different from what he was accused of and DEFINATELY didn't fit under what's commonly considered sexual harassment.
I tried to have a sit down with the accuser before we all went to the office but she wasn't having any of it and her manager kept pushing her on to pursue the matter even further.


This young brother was a good worker and I was ready for battle to keep him clean so I prepared myself with the FACTS of what he did....her reaction....and the company's official policy on matters like this.

Most of all I refused to let him apologize for what he did!

He kept wanting to (and eventually did apologize to her later on against my advice) but I told him that this was business and they didn't want to hear any apologies because that would admit that you did something wrong.

My defense of this brother rested on 2 things:
1. What he did was indeed flirtatious but NOT sexual harassment.
2. I charged the accuser with CULTURAL DISCRIMINATION and being ignorant of how people from other cultures interact with eachother.

To make a long story short the meeting ended with the brother NOT being written up and a few weeks later one of the district managers who happened to be there and decided to drop by and listen in on the case heard me speaking so well and presenting the FACTS so plainly and directly that he was impressed and offered me a temporary training position!

Now if we had went in there dealing with FEELINGS and OPINIONS and what she PERCEIVED his behavior to have meant.....he probably would have gotten written up if not let go.
But I wasn't going to let them manipulate the rules based on flimsy opinions and perceptions, when it comes to threatening a man's livelihood you better come with the FACTS.

The biggest lesson a person can learn from this story is that it pays to stand up for one's self.
But the second biggest is that it pays to have the FACTS!

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Delano    390

@Troy your last paragraph answers the question. You don't know what happens when you think.

@Pioneer the question is what happens in your mind. What you have decscribed is the outcomes and your mental process.

It is not a trick question it is however subtlety tricky.

It helps if you can think about your thinking. Metathinking.

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Troy    982

Pioneer that long story and you didn't even say what the Brother did what's up with that? That and not answering Del's question... that sheds some light on how you think ;-)

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Delano    390

I am becoming aware that people have different thought processi and thoughts 

It was an attempt ti show process although what i am asking is not easily put into words.

So I appreciate the effort. 

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Pioneer1    468

Del

Pioneer the question is what happens in your mind. What you have decscribed is the outcomes and your mental process.

If you ask someone how they think then it IS about their mental processes.

However if you're asking where do people get their IDEAS from then maybe you're talking about INTUITION and INSPIRATION where thoughts just pop up in a person's mind without them making any effort to ponder it or the factors related to it.

Most great artists have this type of thinking, called a "creative imagination".

I'm not sure if this type of spontaneous thinking comes from the subconcious of the individual, or the superconscious of the collective.


 



Troy


Piecing together what both of them said.......
He was sitting behind a desk and she had to reach behind him to get a coat off the wall that she had left. As she was reaching she said,
"I'm sorry to put my big butt in your face but I just gotta grab my jacket."

He told her,
"Don't worry about it, you can put your butt in my face anytime you want to."

Honestly, I've made similar comments to women on the various jobs I'VE had not to mention things I've said in regular life.
I've gotten so many dates and sexual opportunities from women from making similar comments!
But I can understand how in a sterile work environment and depending on the woman you make it to (she was a young "half-Korean" woman) how somone can take offense to comments like that.

I knew if a White man made the same comment she wouldn't have become as offended.
I also knew that if HE had made the same comment to MOST Black or MOST White women they wouldn't have been nearly as offended either.

Knowing this was probably the case pushed me to fight it harder just on the principle of not allowing another Black man be punished for simply being a man.

It goes back to what I've been saying for the past few weeks, a lot of the problems Black people have in this society are "invited" by them not standing up for themselves.

BTW.....

Weeks after that not only did they become "friends" but they started going to Friday's and other spots with other co-workers after work....lol.

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Delano    390

Pioneer there's a subtle difference: what I am asking, and what  you think I am asking. Sometimes I  am capable of deriving a question that's palatable to the person being asked. It took me 30 minute with someone who understands my thought process. 

So I thank you for the effort. I'll post my response to the question. I didn't have sn answer until a day ago. 

Del

The tricky part of communicatin is that we use the same words, but the meanings are shaded by our experience. Which is where the distortion happens. Also even if you grow up in the same environment your temperment, beliefs and assumptions will influence and skew how you see things.

Pioneer when you use the words true and false I think of them they way a logician philosophers or computer programmer would.  So there can be things that are true and wrong . Veracity only means that if I accept your assumptions and follow your thinking I can come to the same conclusion. Personally most assumptions are opinions. I would say that there are no facts. And if i can think of a situation no matter how far fetched that fact is no longer solid. 

The reason i take this position is that I can not be certain of the unknown much less the unknowable.

Pioneer we have a different style of communication and thought process. I am not wedded to any idea or belief. Except that I want to know and figure stuff out.

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Troy    982

Sexual harassment is most political correctness run amok.  As you mentioned depending on the situation and the people involved the statement could be funny or obscene.  A son saying it to his grandmother is completely different than a young man saying it to a young woman that he knows very well.

Still, unless something has changed dramatically Black men should err on the side of caution when it comes to joking around in the office. I would never have said something like that to any woman in the office unless I knew her well enough to know she would not go to the man and sell me out.  

I would have cautioned my man to exert more discretion in the future.

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Pioneer1    468


Pioneer we have a different style of communication and thought process.

Breaking news.......lol.

 

Pioneer when you use the words true and false I think of them they way a logician philosophers or computer programmer would. So there cam be things that are true and wrong . Veracity only means that if I accept your assumptions and follow your thinking I can come to the same conclusion. Personally most assumptions are opinions. I would say that there are no facts. And if i can think of a situation no matter how far fetched that fact is no longer solid.

I am not wedded to any idea or belief. Except that i eant to know and figure stuff out.


It would be rather hard to know things and figure them out if you don't believe that facts exist, don't you think?

When I say facts I'm simply talking about ACCURATE (and current) information.
False doesn't necessarily carry an immoral connotation to it, it could just mean inaccurate information that doesn't line up with verifiable reality.

But in order to figure out something you have to start off acknowledging certain FACTors involved in the process.

You want me to teach you how to ride a bike, you must first be taught what a bike is and then accept it as a FACT.
If you refuse to do so....how could any further learning take place?

You're liable to grab a broom and try scooting down the street on IT instead.

 

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Pioneer1    468

Troy

Still, unless something has changed dramatically Black men should err on the side of caution when it comes to joking around in the office. I would never have said something like that to any woman in the office unless I knew her well enough to know she would not go to the man and sell me out.

I would have cautioned my man to exert more discretion


You're absolutely right, and I did.

I'm certainly not advocating for Black men to go around making sexually provocative statements to the women they work with .

However I also know that despite the supposed professional codes (this WASN'T a corporate environment but many places try to hold their employees to corporate and professional ethical standards)...I know that the work place is one of the best and THE most common place to find a compatible mate.
Mostly because you get to see that person for an extended period of time through a wide range of emotions and conditions which allows you to make a much better judgement about their suitability.

Infact, one of the weapon I had at my disposal was the fact that atleast 2 of the men there MET their wives on the same job and atleast a half dozen others are dating eachother so they must not have kept with the code 100 percent.....lol.

But as I've gotten older and have seen so much drama that has resulted from co-workers dating and the tension it causes in the work place not only between the parties involved but also among the "haters"......I find myself increasingly telling brothers "don't shit where you eat" and keep it by the book.

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Delano    390

I don't need to know what a bike is, i just need  to be able to identify it.

Most of what you have posted I disgree with, yet for you it is self evident. 

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Pioneer1    468

 

You have to KNOW it to IDENTIFY it.

Facts/Knowledge comes first.....it's the framework for indentification.

If you have no knowledge of what a bike is, you wouldn't be able to ID it even if one were standing in your living room.


* I didn't say have a thorough knowledge of it or know "all about" it....I said simply KNOW it.

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Delano    390

Pioneer you can not imagine a situation where a person can do something that  you can not. Or do something that you can not conceive. I can think of a least two situatuons where you can ride a bike without being able to fully identify a bike. 

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Delano    390

I person could be shown how to ride a bike wearing shutters. Like a horse so the bike is never visible. Or a blind person could learn to ride a tricycke.

Leonardo daVinci might disagree with you. Nor would Einstein or Farraday. They didn't accept the facts.  They could see beyond what literalist can see.

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Pioneer1    468

Del

Pioneer you can not imagine a situation where a person can do something that you can not. Or do something that you can not conceive. I can think of a least two situatuons where you can ride a bike without being able to fully identify a bike.

Lol @ "fully identify".
No one said anything about "fully" identifying anything, because it's an objective concept and we all have diferent OPINIONS on how much of a thing must be identified until it's considered "fully" identified.

Nor did I say a person had to know what a bike was simply to RIDE it.
Hell, a FOOL can hop on a bike and play around with it without realizing what it is or it's purpose.

I said you had to know what a bike was to LEARN HOW to ride it.

You don't have to know what a bus is to ride IN one.
But you DO have to know what a bus is to learn HOW to drive one.

 


person could be shown how to ride a bike wearing shutters.

I don't know about "shown"....lol....but sure a person can be taught how to ride wearing shutters.
There are blind people who can ride bikes.
But they still first KNOW what a bike is....using their other senses....in order to learn.


BTW....Einstein was a physicist and mathematician so he ABSOLUTELY accepted facts.
He just didn't stop at the facts he already knew but continued learning more.

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Cynique    1,462

I've been thinking about how I think and I'm not sure. I will say that I am always challenged by people who confidently assert something, and my first impulse is contradict them with an alternate possibility. I am a natural polemicist and an inductive thinker, which is why I anticipate what a person who disagrees with me would say and I am thinking of how to respond to their rebuttal even as i am trying to get my ideas across.    My main shortcoming is remembering something I have heard somewhere and including it in making my point without being able to back it up with references and hard facts. So  this can make it easy for someone to tell me that I don't know what i'm talking about.  LOL. In being a truth seeker, my perspective is always about the big picture and the overview because I think people get caught up in their own little worlds.  I am also a cynical old broad who used to be a skeptical young chick. Debbie Downer. :(

Below are my observations about the thought processes of you 3 guys, and they are observations not  criticisms.  They are what make you all uniquely yourselves. 

Del assumes you know where he is coming from and is spontaneous in his comments which are  often out of context and are, therefore, confusing. He is also mercurial but this contributes to his being flexible in his positions. He seems  self-aware and sensitive, a versatile thinker comfortable with both science and spirituality.

Troy subconsciously uses the power of persuasion in his arguments, assuming that what is as "given" to him is a "given" to you - until you snap out of it.LOL  He borders on ennobling himself because he always takes the high ground and although he sometimes takes on the role of the victim, too, he is very convincing in justifying his grievances. A great technical, resourceful mind complemented by a winning personality  

 With Pioneer, he is very opinionated and often backs up his opinions with specious arguments that, if not necessarily factual, are at least interesting and provocative, - not to mention long-winded. A well-read, unorthodox thinker with a sly sense of humor.

I enjoy sparring with all of you. You make my life more interesting because I don't get a lot of mental stimulation in my day-to-day existence that includes scrolling up and down FaceBook..  :wacko:     

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Delano    390

Cynique I assume that people want to challenge their beliefs and do original thinking. I would say your synopsis or is it analysis, is on the money.

There aren't too many places where you can have a provocative  dialogue. 

The question is not what do you think about or how do you think. But what happens while you are thinking. My initial feeling was thinking is a mysterious process. Since you don't feel anything and then the answer pops out.

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Delano    390

Cynique you said it earlier. Somethings are difficult to express with language. Thinking or cognition may be one of those things.

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Pioneer1    468

 

who used to be a skeptical young chick. Debbie Downer.

Speaking of a sly sense of humor.....

I can think of SEVERAL good jokes out of that one line.
But it would be neither sly nor appropriate for me to utter them.....lol.

BTW, it's my pleasure to share this board with you too.

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Mel Hopkins    548

@Delano the process of thinking?  Or looking for answers?

Well I guess that gives you an idea how I think..

If it's thinking to find an answer -I call myself the "obedient scribe" because I'll ask a question and the answer appears - or at least the field of what I'm thinking about gets narrower.  That is productive thinking.

Thinking to just think is much easier because I just listen. 

Depending on what level of consciousness, I'm currently residing, I can "hear" . 

For example, I woke up with a request - "someone" asked me to research the "styles of the decade - and so before I got out of bed I began penning some ideas on the topic.  It was surreal even for me - because I have no real interest in discussing fashion but I did it anyway focusing first on the 70s, then the 60s, 80s, and 90s.   I even wrote a blog post, "Styles of the Decades | Voices inside My Head"  It turned out to be fun and I got a chance to use some old family photos in the post.   

Here's where it got weird.  I got an email on Friday that informed me that on the very same day I began writing the post, Tim Gunn, Project runway,  a show I've never ever seen -- gave a talk at the Library of Congress on the topic of fashions in the 70s. In fact, there's an exhibit on disco fashion "Bibliodiscotheque" at the LOC that ended on Saturday.   In his taped interview, he said, (paraphrase) "before you can talk about the 70s you must first talk about the revolutionary 60s" ...those were nearly the same words I used in my blog post.  

All this to say, I believe thinking is a result of being open to any given channel of influence, so to speak...

I intuited this concept early on, and I tend to tune into the highest frequency I can perceive.   It just so happened that day I dialed to dial into  the Library of Congress's frequency. 

 

Thank you for today's blog post topic. I'm using this response ... :P

 

 

 

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Delano    390

Yeah its an evocative answer along with a great story. 

You are also mentioning an idea that i have been working on and of Since January. Thinking intuition and imagination are the same thing. They don't feel different, it's their use that defines them. 

I have thought projects and think about my thinking. Since I believe that I am a non linear conceptual intuitive thinker/empath.

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Mel Hopkins    548
41 minutes ago, Delano said:

Since I believe that I am a non linear conceptual intuitive thinker/empath.

@Delano Would you believe I wrote something on this concept?  Once again, I woke up with this idea and I wrote "Time is no respecter of persons"   I'm not an expert in any of this - I just write what I "hear"...    If feel like reading here is  "Whose Got Your Ear which is based on this thread.

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Delano    390

Yes i am reading a book.  And I'll post an idea. And then i see the same r a similar idea.

Which fo me is something new. HoweverI am developing some new ways of processing information. 

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Mel Hopkins    548
5 hours ago, Delano said:

Yes i am reading a book.  And I'll post an idea. And then i see the same r a similar idea.

Which fo me is something new.

@DelanoTowards the end of my post, after I describe what I call conduit thinking, I mentioned that I don't know how to continuously tune into the channel that is supplying me information.  Your comment has just pointed me in the direction.  Acquiring tunnel vision to channel thinking could be effective.

["Tunnel vision : :  extreme narrowness of viewpoint :  narrow-mindedness; also :  single-minded concentration on one objective. ]

Tunnel vision has a negative connotation.  As usual, what the powers-that-be frown upon may be the way to secure information from what some mystics call the "Akashic records"

 

 

Edited by Mel Hopkins
wrong name
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Delano    390

I use numbers and words from the querent or the environment, to read the Akashic records. 

On 09/05/2017 at 1:12 AM, Mel Hopkins said:

@DelanoTowards the end of my post, after I describe what I call conduit thinking, I mentioned that I don't know how to continuously tune into the channel that is supplying me information.  Your comment has just pointed me in the direction.  Acquiring tunnel vision to channel thinking could be effective.

["Tunnel vision : :  extreme narrowness of viewpoint :  narrow-mindedness; also :  single-minded concentration on one objective. ]

Tunnel vision has a negative connotation.  As usual, what the powers-that-be frown upon may be the way to secure information from what some mystics call the "Akashic records"

 

 

Glad to assist. It's what I try to do in life.

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Pioneer1    468

Mel or Del

If one of you know a SURE way to access the Akashic Records, I wish one of you could let me know.

Mel during your experience, were you able to verify if such a "grand library" or system exists?

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Del    135

Pioneer in my opinion it requires an openness or ability to surrender that I feel you lack.

Your request at least to me doesn't reconcile with your previous responses to post about the occult. It is hidden for a reason.

I can only tell you what you already believe. 

I have met Astrologers, Psychics Card readers, intuitives and emergy and light workers. All of whom believe in what they do. However there are only a handful that have a freakish devotion to their craft. And want to continue to expand. 

Mostly the path chooses you. I had two sets of people that took my interest in the esoteric and gave it direction.

Try devolving your intuition, by meditating yoga or Martial Arts. 

 

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Mel Hopkins    548
3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Mel during your experience, were you able to verify if such a "grand library" or system exists?

@Pioneer1 LOL this made me giggle. I was trying to think how I can verify experience especially since experience is in the moment. 

Well, there is probably a physical location because of vibration but maybe it's a 4th dimensional construct.  One that we can access at a certain level of consciousness.   

Keep in mind, I just agree calling this place where  information is stored "Akaschic records" because the description has been my experience .  When you look at the etymology of the word, it states it is derived from the Sanskrit word "Akasha" which means aether...  As I mentioned in an other thread - that's what I called the place I returned to when I "died".

Maybe death is just another level of consciousness; a flat line but a consciousness nonetheless. 

Here in this animated form we experience delta (change) which allows us to bounce between levels of consciousness. 

 So maybe you can access the "Akashic records" by going to deeper or different levels of consciousness. 

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Troy    982

Pioneer, you are looking for proof of something that will never be provable, at least to your level of satisfaction. The answer can't be recorded on a video camera or measured in a lab.

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Del    135
4 hours ago, Troy said:

Pioneer, you are looking for proof of something that will never be provable, at least to your level of satisfaction. The answer can't be recorded on a video camera or measured in a lab.

Word!

 

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Pioneer1    468

 

Troy

Pioneer, you are looking for proof of something that will never be provable, at least to your level of satisfaction. The answer can't be recorded on a video camera or measured in a lab.

It sounds like you don't have a lot of confidence in their ability to answer the question.....lol.

Remember, my criteria for proof doesn't just lay in observation alone but either OBSERVATION OR EXPERIENCE.
So even if they can't point to and show me the Akashic Records, if they can tell me how to get there to see them for myself then that would suffice.


Mel

I'm still not sure I totally understand your answer.

To make it clear, I'm asking 2 questions:

The first is about YOUR experience....whether or not you can verify it to me is immaterial.
Have YOU verified the existence of the Akashic Records or some other grand cosmic system of information retrieval?

Then the second question....which is to you or whoever can answer.....
Does anyone know a SURE way to access this system?



Del

I can only tell you what you already believe.

Lol...If you started telling me what I already believed, you'd be humiliating yourself.

Facts are reality and their existence doesn't depend on a person's belief or skepticism.

The Library of Congress exists.
It's real.
It's in Washington D.C.....whether I believe it or not.

If I want to go there, all I have to do is get the directions and a plane ticket and I can be there by tommorow....nothing strange or mystical about it.

Now either the Akashic Records exist and you know how to access them....or you don't.

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Mel Hopkins    548

Mel

"I'm still not sure I totally understand your answer. To make it clear, I'm asking 2 questions:"

"The first is about YOUR experience...."

"LOL this made me giggle. I was trying to think how I can verify experience especially since experience is in the moment. "

"Mel during your experience, were you able to verify if such a "grand library" or system exists? " ~ @Pioneer1

"Keep in mind, I just agree calling this place where  information is stored "Akashic records" because the description has been my experience . "

"whether or not you can verify it to me is immaterial."

Then whom am I supplying verification?  This makes no sense to me. 

"Have YOU verified the existence of the Akashic Records or some other grand cosmic system of information retrieval?"
Who wants to know? Because you mentioned the answer doesn't matter to you. 

"Then the second question....which is to you or whoever can answer.....
Does anyone know a SURE way to access this system?"

you can access the "Akashic records" by going to deeper or different levels of consciousness. 

 

 
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Mel Hopkins    548
8 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The Library of Congress exists.
It's real.
It's in Washington D.C.....whether I believe it or not.

If I want to go there, all I have to do is get the directions and a plane ticket and I can be there by tommorow....nothing strange or mystical about it.

Now either the Akashic Records exist and you know how to access them....or you don't.

@Pioneer1 LOC is only real in your presence.  For everyone else who is not present, it's an idea...  While it may be real when you visit, once you leave it you cannot prove it exists...
Using someone's verification, such as asking directions, and purchasing a plane ticket, that LOC exist is based on trust and faith. 

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Pioneer1    468

Mel

LOC is only real in your presence. For everyone else who is not present, it's an idea... While it may be real when you visit, once you leave it you cannot prove it exists...
Using someone's verification, such as asking directions, and purchasing a plane ticket, that LOC exist is based on trust and faith.

Sure I can prove it.....lol.

And I'm not talking about "second hand" knowledge like pictures of it, but PROOF!

Whoever is asking for proof, all they have to do is get on the phone with me and I can step-by-step walk them through the directions on how to get there until they have arrived and are sitting comfortably in seat with a book in their lap.

That's absolute proof.


Now ofcourse when it comes to HISTORICAL events or places that no longer exist....no...you CAN'T absolutely prove them any more.
You can find other people who HAVE seen them or experienced them along with you and they can be used as witnesses to verify that which HAPPENED or that which ONCE EXISTED...but atleast on this plane of existence you won't be able to prove it.

If it's a FABRICATION or HALLUCINATION...(and I'm definitely NOT calling the Akashic Records a fabrication) you'll have a hard time trying to "prove" it...lol.

But when it comes to REAL things that still exist, the possibility to prove it should also exist.
Now we may  not know HOW to prove it...that's where ignorance comes in...but the proof is there because the object is there and the proof exists in it's very being.

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