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Perhaps that is why so many Black people voted for Trump, they do not see him as a racist.


Either that or it was strategic in the sense that they figured having a more overt racist in the Whitehouse would mobilize Black America and force us to unite and organize in a way that we ordinarily wouldn't have.

When I lived out on the West Coast, I met Black people who actually voted for Ronald Reagan for President.
They lived up under him as Governor of Califnornia where he cut welfare and other social programs that disproportionately affected Black and poor people.

It was weird but they said it was the best thing that could have happened because it forced more Black people to become independant, stop relying on government, and build their own economic base.

Whether that type of "shock therapy" actually works, I'm not sure.
But I do believe that although she's defininitely the more qualified of the two, under Clinton.....like under Obama....Black people would have been lulled into a sense of satisfaction and optimism that would most likely have been detrimental to to our development and progress.

 

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Troy I can't read the print. However there is a bold statement at the end. Civil Liberties end when our safety is threatened. That line really Trumps the Racist argument.

I will use an example that your team will understand. I am a scientist and your team is superstitious. You ask do I think Lightning happens because the Gods are angry. I try to gently explain that while you may believe that to be the case. I am content with the the explanation that Lightning and Thunder are two seperate occurrences.

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@Delano, what confounds me is that you have summarily rejected my opinion and Pioneer's (which are not identical despite you lumping all those who disagree with you in the same bucket) and elevated yours above all other as if it is correct.

You stated that Trump is not a racist as if it was fact.  You can't possibly know that any more than I--unless of course, you are suggesting some extrasensory perception is in play here (which you have not).

I give you evidence that of Trump's behavior that might suggest he is racist and rather than reflecting on it giving it a microsecond of consideration you stubbornly sought ways to reject it.

It reminds me of your attempts to demonstrate to Pioneer your ability to tell the future, while he rejects your evidence as quickly as you serve it up.  I think Pioneer is more justified than you are in this particular instance.

But again, the fact of the matter is that neither of us can know Trump's true motivations.  

As far as your argument about the language in Trump's ad.  If it were run after the boys were convicted I could see an argument that he was seeking justice.  If this case was in the south, a few years earlier, those boys would have been lynched before there was a trial--indeed they were...

@Pioneer1 , I could see the guys point it is the conservative party line.  I actually wrote, in a perverse way, I would like to see what a Trump presidency would look like.  I regret the sentiment.

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Troy I am not rejecting your opinion. I just don't share it. 

I don't agree with Mel or Cynique's opinion. 

No i didn't say it was a fact. We are discussing opinions.  You are either intentionally or inadvertently being both thick and or accusatory. The reason and rationale is leaving your argument. The print on the Trump manifesto is small. I actually loaded it on my laptop. I will read ot later but the argument is devolving. And i am not wholly responsible for that occurence.

Do you want me to agree or disagree with you. Just ask one simple question. Simple as in not compound. For example Do I think Trump is racist and do other people think he is possibly racist. Btw the last half of that question is difficult to answer even with my world renowned psychic ability. 

 

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I've noticed that one of the reasons so many Black people don't see racism in society is because they aren't looking for it.

Since WE don't practice it on a regular basis, we don't think anyone else is.

In other words......

If we own or operate a television show, website, or magazine our purpose is to entertain, diseminate information, or advertise......not necessarily to promote prejudice or Black Supremacy.

Since racism and deception isn't on OUR MINDS and not apart of OUR AGENDA it's often unthinkable that OTHER people could or would do it.
And this one of the reasons Black people are constantly caught up and caught off guard.


Perhaps we as a people should have a rule of thumb.......

Until proven otherwise, EVERY TIME Whites and Blacks interact with eachother we should be aware of any racism....subtle, blatant or otherwise.

When you stay in a "preparedness" mindset, then these things don't get pass you.

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Thanks, Del apology accepted.

Pioneer I think you have a point. I've been the victim a racist on more than one occasion recently.  Another white guy came by and defused the situation, by quite cleverly giving me an out.  You see I felt this white woman had mistreated me, she was crying bloody murder threatening to the call the cops and her husband, and I was like, bring them.

The situation was so freaking stupid (I'm ashamed to describe it) and escalated unnecessarily, but she was what was I perceived to be a piece of poor white trash and I simply could not just walk away (poor judgment on my part).  You see I was right, but I could have been "dead right" or "locked up right," in any event, it was not worth it.  

The problem with assuming all white people are racist Pioneer is that we cut ourselves from potentially great relationships.  The guy who defused the situation could not have possibly been a racist otherwise he would have taken her side.

One of the reasons I left corporate America was that I simply got tired of trying to figure out who was racist.  I was tired of feeling like an outsider, someone that would never really fit in. Some of my peers fit in, married white women, lived in white communities, and did culturally white things.  

I just can not live that lifestyle.  I'd rather struggle amongst my people than be "comfortable" in their world.  But I sometimes tire of struggling...

...In a couple of weeks, I'm gonna spend some quality time with white folks and goo skiing :-) 

 

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7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Perhaps we as a people should have a rule of thumb.......

Until proven otherwise, EVERY TIME Whites and Blacks interact with eachother we should be aware of any racism....subtle, blatant or otherwise.

When you stay in a "preparedness" mindset, then these things don't get pass you.

My experiences indicate this would be irrational behavior.  Straight 'hood, woods, white burbs, law enforcement profiling" mentality.   Sort of like when I said, I see black men as warriors"  when I've actually learned that quite a few black men are sniveling cowards...

I'll pass.

I'll continue to play folks on how they present- and if they present differently each time we meet I'll play the side facing up.

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This is what i meant by "benign" racism.  i have a few white acquaintances who i consider racists because they voted for Trump and are pro-police, but we have similar interests in other areas that bind us.  Incidentally, i think any white person who voted for Trump is a racist who hides behind their rationale for having done so.   That's because i'm prejudiced.  

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There is a difference between implicit or benign racism and explicit "hood wearing" racism.  

Often the racist does not know he is racist. Similarly, Black folks can experience racism without being aware of it, but that does not mean it is not present--it just means we did not perceive it for whatever reason.

I just learned about a book, which I just purchased, that talks about this how racist we are based upon big data collected from google searches.

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I've met a LOT of White people who've helped me and I'm working with some right now.
But that doesn't justify me being naïve and letting my guard down.

I think most of our people really subconsciously LOVE White people and don't want to accept that they don't love them back, which is why they repeatedly give them the benefit of the doubt and let their guard down and wait UNTIL they are fucked before putting up a defense.

The question you should ask yourself is do most White people give US the same benefit of a doubt that so many of us give them?

Look at the clenched purses and locked car doors.
We have more of a reason to be mistrustful and apprehensive of Whites than they do of us, yet many of them STILL don't trust you even without knowing you.

I can't count how many times I've been on an elevator and if I'm standing infront I can feel the eyes staring at me from the Whites on that elevator.
It's the same when I go to the men's room.
I can wash my hands and an Asian man will wash his and go.
A Mexican will wash his and go.
Another Black man will wash his and go.
A White man will wash his hands and most of the time take a quick glance over at me or another Black man.


All of us are born and raised in the same nation at the same time but it's almost as if they're STILL not "used to" Black people....especially Black males.

My point is they notice US even when we don't seem to notice THEM.
Which should tell you something.

Too often Black people toddle along in society smiling...trusting everyone...and thinking everything is everything, all the while not aware that other people watching and studying them and are actually suspicious and mistrustful of them.

We were the same way in Africa, and look where it got us.

I'm just saying given that climate or atmosphere of racial awareness, it would be wise to stay on guard.

 

 

Troy I worked with a guy who both I and my Asian co-worker thought was racist. But he liked me. There was a racist guy at the bar, that used to juy me drinks and talk with me. I enjoy expanding minds.

i have a few white acquaintances who i consider racists because they voted for Trump and are pro-police, but we have similar interests in other areas that bind us. Incidentally, i think any white person who voted for Trump is a racist who hides behind their rationale for having done so.


Reading this reminds me.....

The weird thing is that I've always been political....even on the various jobs that I've held.
And despite my being political and even racial, many White racist feel that they can "confide" certain feelings in me that apparently they don't say to other Black co-workers....despite the fact that many of those Black workers could care less.

I've had so many long discussions with right wingers and conservatives and a few open racist and a few of them I'd consider......not friends....but "dialog buddies" for lack of a more accurate term because although our views are different we enjoy debating and discussing with eachother and many of us tend to notice the same things about society.

So often the political Black people and political White people could get along better with EACHOTHER even if our politics were totally opposite....than we got along with other members of our own race who just wanted to talk about sports or something silly or foolish.

I think being political minded is a personality trait.
You have to be "wired" that way and if you are...you jive with others who are wired similarly even if they don't agree with your particular politics or even share the same race.

 

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7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I think most of our people really subconsciously LOVE White people

Hey man that is something I had not considered.  I believe this to be true to a certain extent.  It explains why we spend so much time trying to emulate them and strive for their validation.  "The white man's ice is colder."

This mentality holds us back, because white folks don't return the love unless you are a Black celebrity. This too is a result of white racism, and Black people who love white folks more than they do Black folks would never EVER see it that way.

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Guest Kalisha Buckhanon

I never thought of this photo of Viola as racist until I saw this survey asking if it was. But I definitely see the concern that bigots who laughed at such racist images will compare it to this one, and how Blacks stigmatized by these images could see them suggested here on this cover. My first impression was that it was just an awful picture of Viola. There's something trippy about it. 

They are taking this whole poster child of Black poverty thing way too far with her. She may be succumbing to it because so much has happened for her so fast and it's hard to manage it all the way premiere public artists can when the pace is slower. It just looked to me like the picture was trying to make her look way too overjoyed about her success and Oscar win, as if she was nearly high on ecstasy that Hollywood saved her from starving in the backwood. So, you have the more mature and confident Viola on the ESSENCE covers Troy uncovered and posted for comparison. That is because Black people just respect her work and her brilliance. We appreciate her for our awe of her talent and what she can do. We do not care where she came from or what she overcame to get where she is. We do care, but it's not some do-gooder feel good story for us. We can see and recognize who she is naturally as just a person and human being we'd love to go to dinner or shopping with.

But, the mainstream media wants to turn her into this clown or "Different Strokes"-like story. She is that little colored child who can make others feel comfortable that America does work for everyone, if only they work hard enough and have genius. I think that is more where they were going with this, and failed. They put all these bright colors around her and on her. They are unbecoming of her as not just a dark brown woman, but as a mature and sophisticated (and wealthy) woman. She looks silly and childish, as if she's just soooooo happy to be invited to the party. The truth is Viola has been at the party for nearly two decades now. So, she's past this.

Their pictures of John Legend and Colson Whitehead are more of what I would have expected for Viola Davis, but such a photo would not have made a cover to fly off the grocery store shelf or go viral. At the most, they should have positioned Viola as they depicted Leslie Jones- full of life, boisterous, happy and styled for her age. But at the end of the day Mrs. Davis is doing her thing, living her dream and finally wielding the influence she deserves to wield. I am sure she knew TIME wanted to slap some ugly lipstick and an ugly dress on her for that same old vision of what a Black woman like her should be and feel. She let them win that battle so she can keep on winning the war. I think we are going to see some cool and brilliant stuff from her for a really long time, even in the director's and producer's seats with more stories we can be proud of, so the joke's on TIME.

 

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Kalisha, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts.  Again thanks for reminding me that Viola is indeed winning the war this is what matters most in the long term. While we can point out this "micro-racism," we can, at the same time, continue to support her work, so that the cool and brilliant stuff, we so desperately need, comes to fruition.

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  I just want to know if that picture which appeared on its magazine was taken by a TIME camera man specifically for the 100 most influential entertainers' cover.   If this is true, then the point Kalisha is trying to make has validity.  But i still  think that that picture is not a recent one.  I really believe that is an old picture taken at an event and because Time perceived it as displaying a woman who was surprised and pleased, thought it was befitting of someone who had just won something, and they used it.  I also think that just as TIME read something into the picture, that many black people are also reading something into it, creating a whole scenario, convinced that TIME had her pose for this picture and tampered with it to make a caricature of black women. I certainly don't think Viola would be a willing participant in something that could be considered degrading.  She's a big enough star to reject this. BTW, Where did Jamie Foxx get his inspiration from the over-the-top character, Wanda? Is this art imitating life?

If you guys want to think that a dark-skinned black woman smiling broadly, wearing red lipstick  is  offensive and something to be ashamed of, then so be it.  I stand by my point that though it is not a posed picture of Viola looking her best thanks to being groomed and made over, the Time picture picture is one of her looking the way she did and millions of black women do look. It is, what it is. i would sure like to get Viola's feed back.

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miles_alridge_behind_time_100.jpg?w=560

Miles Aldridge, hair stylist Yusef and Viola Davis on set for TIME 100.  Courtesy Miles Aldridge 

 

viola-davis.jpg

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTJi-U5gHbt/?taken-by=yusefhairnyc

 

A picture is worth a 1000 words... and the story we tell as a result reveals so much about ourselves..

Famed  Fashion Photographer Miles Aldridge and Stylist Yusef , (a black man) collaborated on this cover...   according to Yusef, he did her make-up and hair and seems to be quite pleased.

Ms. Davis' s dress is green,  think: chroma key to make it easy for Photoshop.  It appears, however, that Ms Davis isn't re-touched.

Here's time's article "The Story behind The Time 100 Most influential People's Covers" about why the photographer staged the look...

"Color, courage and clarity are the key notes for the covers of the TIME 100 Most Influential People issue. Photographer Miles Aldridge, who created the portraits, knew immediately that they had to pop and clash with as much vitality as a Mozart concerto.

“I wanted the pictures to be bright; bright being almost an adjective for sound rather than for image,” says Aldridge. “In a way, I’m talking about Matisse; the way his colors were always juxtaposed so beautifully. There was a sort of visual stimulation, that almost felt like music.” 

Aldridge, a seasoned fashion photographer, decided early on that color would be his unifying tempo, marking a clear departure from previous year’s more muted tones. But the people and personalities were still the beating heart of the photos. The pioneers, titans, artists, leaders and icons – of whom Riz Ahmed, Melinda Gates, John Legend, Jeff Bezos and Viola Davis made the covers – are giants in their field. It was important then, that they held their own against the boldness of Aldridge’s palette.   Though his shoots are heavily constructed, photographing strong personalities such as Viola Davis, mean the subjects' energy becomes part of the stimulus.

The result for Davis was an incredibly warm and joyous burst of laughter – sparked from a conversation about her Oscar win – which Aldridge then asked her to repeat over and over again. “[The smile's] essence is from the real world,” he explains. “But its actual construction is completely artificial.” Aldridge’s contact sheets are the antithesis of Cartier-Bresson’s ‘decisive moment.’ “It’s not like a lucky moment. It’s very controlled,” he adds. “But therein one can be expressive with the rules.... More at TIME

 

 

 

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LMAO THANKS, MEL!  This clears up a lot of things.  And the finger should be pointed directly at 2 men for any negative reactions to this picture.  Their rationales for creating Viola's look are a lot artsy BS. I wonder if her black make-up man is gay.  ;)  I think this is kind of a cruel ironic joke.

I was wrong about most of my assumptions but i was right when i perceived Viola as being happy about something.

What TIME should really be chided for is selecting Leslie Jones as an influential black woman when the only influence she wields is how she reinforces white people's view of black women as loud, brazen sexpots. 

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5 minutes ago, Cynique said:

i was right when i perceived Viola as being happy about something.

@Cynique I went to Miles Aldridge website (Dude is fixated on boobs, a lot of color especially pubis hair string bikini lol) and Yusef's Instagram and saw what he did to Rihanna's hair for a shoot in Paris and I got such a tickle; I... all of ranting - and none of us included the "Art" angle.   But then again, Art is what will get a rise of folks.  Kudos to  @Pioneer1  for noticing.  

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Didn't somebody once say "all art is political"?  I learned something from all of this and that is, the importance of researching something you are arguing about.  

Since i do agree that everyone 's reaction to the picture was subjective, i am trying  to dissect my own reaction.  i was kinda thinkin that rather than "art" this was "mischief" and that TIME was messing with black minds, putting them in a Catch 22 position of criticizing a picture of a black woman who looked like - a black woman. I was trying not to fall into TIME's trap and outsmarted myself. :wacko:

But i was right about Viola looking ecstatic, like someone who had just been awarded something  and that she was smiling not grimacing.  :D

 

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Hold the presses ya'll. Mel thanks for sharing this, but I think it just adds another layer of complexity.  Just because a Black man took the photo does not negative anything I wrote.

Clearly, his sensibilities differ from mine as well, as pioneer's, and some of the survey respondents.  

This information it does not make one group "right" and the other "wrong."  What I've learned from this conversation is that perception is everything and we can not truly know the underlying motivations of someone else's perspectives.  Indeed the motivations for our own perceptions can even escape us.

For example, there are plenty of Black people who are strong public supporters of Donald Trump.  Just because they are Black does not negate the fact there is a strong discrepancy with the majority of other Black folks who feel the Trump supporter must be ignorant, stupid, or both.  

This photo is just a subtle example of of something that illustrates those differences, but it is no less revealing. Sort of like a Black Rorschach Test.

Maybe the correlation is not gender, but frequency or intensity of racist experiences.  If your experiences with white folks have been largely innocuous and pleasant, you like the photo.

I think this whole conversation is fascinating on so many levels.  I wonder if any of the people who replied to the survey would change their vote after reading this exchange.  @Pioneer1 see what you started ;)

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20 minutes ago, Cynique said:

Did a black man take the photos?  Is Myles Aldridge black or white? I'm confused. 

 According to this article, Yusef Williams, the celebrity hair stylist, was born and raised in Miami, FL , he looks African-American but I couldn't find ethnicity.  

Miles Aldridge, the fashion photographer, according to the internet, is British, He was born in London, England  :)

1 hour ago, Troy said:

What I've learned from this conversation is that perception is everything and we can not truly know the underlying motivations of someone else's perspectives.  Indeed the motivations for our own perceptions can even escape us.

Yep!  this is why the Nubians instructed students in the ancient School of Mysteries to  "Know ThySelf" ... It's the most important educational undertaking in life. 

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So Miles Aldridge, the one who took the photo is a White man who loved to.....as they say in England...."take the piss".

Figures.......

This Yusef Williams fellow, I know he did her hair but did they say he did her make-up too?
I don't know if I skipped over that part or what but I don't remember reading it.

 

 

Cynique

What TIME should really be chided for is selecting Leslie Jones as an influential black woman when the only influence she wields is how she reinforces white people's view of black women as loud, brazen sexpots.

Well
It's "ABOUT TIME" (pun is definately intended) you said something I agreed with....lol.



Troy

You said a lot in your second from last post.
But unless I was reading it wrong, it sounded a little like the ladies were actually beginning to see things OUR way just a little....lol.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Bobbie

I have to disagree that a dark skinned lady can't wear red lipstick. This is an opinion that has been passed down through ignorance. However, I do agree it doesn't look appealing on her due to the excessive use of the lipstick. Whoever was the make-up artist made that mistake. My question is was that person of color? Also, it had to be the photographer who had her to pose as such. What is the purpose of having her pose with her mouth wide open, with the red lipstick? In the African American community we have the great stain in history of calling darker women unattractive. This is proven through selections of wives, girlfriends, actress, commercials etc. Please know that dark skinned women can wear many shades of lipstick, even orange. 

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@Delano when you wrote I was "mirroring your statement" I was saying that it was because I learned something from you in this exchange.

@Pioneer1 , I do believe the ladies are begging to understand our perspctive.  Yes, Cynique's statement about Leslie was on point.  Again since Black folks do not choose who is most important to us, all we can do is still back and complain...

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On 2017-5-28 at 2:51 AM, Cynique said:

In Hamlet by Shakespeare, this Prince of Denmark is advised:

"This above all to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man."

Yeah I'm constantly checking myself. To not become a sexist greedy racist homophobe. 

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I just posted the preliminary results of the little survey asking if the photo of Viola flattering and Racist. The results are reflective of our conversation.  

It was interesting, to me, to see that 100% of the non-black respondents found the photo both flattering and nonracist.  This, of course, comes as no surprise.

Almost 72% of Black women did not think the photo was flattering almost 1/3 strongly disagreeing with the statement.  See the complete summary.

flattering.png

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LOL. @Delano Everybody has flaws and prejudices and being true to ourselves involves acknowledging them because that's who we are.  The true test is not being false to anyone by pretending to be something we are not.  The final challenge  is to not let our flaws have an injurious impact on others.  

 

@Troy I tend to think you subliminally injected the power of suggestion in the way the question was worded.You might have gotten different answers if you'd asked something more objective like "what comes to mind when you view this picture?" But i understand you wanted to compare your results with the feedback on the board to Pioneer's strong opinion. 

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Hi Cynique an open ended question like that would have been too vague. I could have asked Pioneer's question "what's wrong with this picture" and provided a list of options but, as you said, I wanted know if people thought the photo was racist when asked directly. Did you see the complete results?

 

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“Hi Cynique an open ended question like that would have been too vague. I could have asked Pioneer's question "what's wrong with this picture" and provided a list of options but, as you said, I wanted know if people thought the photo was racist when asked directly.”

There was nothing racist about it. That's the way the woman looks. But for some people, the photograph was troublesome. Why? Well, Viola Davis has unmistakable Negroid DNA that gives her a look many people (mostly Negroes) are uncomfortable with. She has the face and skin complexion of what most people consider the bottom rung of femininity and beauty. Why? Because the universal standard of female beauty consists of light and bright skin, chiseled proportionate small facial features and soft, bouncy naturally straight hair. The complete antithesis of  Viola Davis. Not saying I agree with this but it's a nondebatable reality. Viola Davis joins the ranks of black females (e.g., Alek Wek, Missy Elliott, Nina Simone, Uzo Aduba, Gabby Sidibe, et al) who have at some point in their life have faced a tsunami of criticism and hostility for their genetics. Now here is the bone breaking crux of the matter –who do you think is their harshest critics? Answer: OTHER BLACK FEMALES!

 

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Bobbie

No one is saying that dark skinned Black women CAN'T wear bright red lipstick.
They can wear whatever they want.

Personally, I'm saying they SHOULDN'T because it clashes with their skin tone.

I guess it depends on what you're wearing it for though.
Many Black women claim they don't care what society things of them and they'll wear whatever they feel like, but then turn around and get mad if Black men look at women of other races instead of them.....something you wouldn't do if you really didn't care.

If I have to choose between seeing Black women dress and act however they want to without criticizing them.....or offering corrective criticizm on how they should dress and act to be most attractive.
My love of them forces me to choose the latter whether they initially understand it or not.



Cynique

LOL. @Delano Everybody has flaws and prejudices and being true to ourselves involves acknowledging them because that's who we are. The true test is not being false to anyone by pretending to be something we are not.

What if someone is pretending to be a psychic who knows the future, but is not and can't?

Lol, how should that person view themselves?

 

 

Xeon

Viola Davis joins the ranks of black females (e.g., Alek Wek, Missy Elliott, Nina Simone, Uzo Aduba, Gabby Sidibe, et al) who have at some point in their life have faced a tsunami of criticism and hostility for their genetics.

Come on man, how are you gonna put Viola Davis and Gabourey Sidibe in the same catagory?

Just look at them:

Image result for Gabby SidibeImage result for viola davis sexy
  Gabourey   Sidibe                                                         Viola Davis


Just about the ONLY thing those two women share in common is their dark skin!


Nothing against her as a person, but physically speaking Sidibe's lack of physical atractiveness has NOTHING to do with her dark skin and more to do with her weight, bodily shape, and the shape of her face.

Are you telling me that if all of her other physical characteristics remained the same but she was 5 shades lighter then all ofa sudden she would be considered attractive?

Look at that Mama June character from Honey BooBoo:


Image result for Mama june

She's got all the genetics you speak of.
Do you think SHE looks better than a dark skinned Viola?

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Cynique

SMH. i give up on arguing with people who are totally off my wave length,

That's why I told you in the other thread to get out of the house!

If you'll just take a break and go outside you'll find plenty of species on YOUR wave length.

Infact, you can walk around in the grass and I'm pretty sure you'll find a perfect match squirming around...lol.

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Cynique

I gotta feeling Mel will vet those remarks you made about Gabourey.

My remarks were my opinion.

If someone wants to disagree and called Gabourey an icon of beauty they are more than welcomed.

If someone wants to say ALL Black women are beautiful regardless as to how they look, they are welcomed to do that as well.

But no amount of "girl power" is going to change the laws of nature or convince heterosexual men to stop finding femininity (which Viola exudes) attractive and instead call EVERY Black woman who bumbles down the street beautiful simple because she's Black.

Just like being Black doesn't automatically make you ugly, it doesn't automatically make you beautiful either.

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Cynique

I don't think Gabourey is ugly. she is just obese. Her face is rather cute; she has nice features and smooth skin and pretty eyes. IMO.

Ofcourse it's your opinion.

And it's the opinion of a heterosexual female....who IMO (lol) isn't qualified to judge the attractiveness of another woman!

What you're doing is an example of what is contributing to the low self esteem and confusion of young Black women all over America.

Too many Black women.....straight Black women....are giving their opinions of who THEY feel is or should be considered an attractive Black woman.
And when young and impressionable girls take these goofy opinions as facts and find out most Black men don't share them....they end up angry and confused.

It's a biological fact that what most women see as "attractive" features, most men don't.
I've heard many young girls look at a toned and muscular woman and say they wish they had a body like that because the muscles were attractive....not realizing that it was attractive to THEM but not necessarily to men.

As hard and as counter-intuitive as it may seem, I think women should leave the judging of other women's attractiveness to either homosexual women or STRAIGHT MEN.

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@Pioneer1These are your usual, eccentric ideas and generalizations that you sit in Starbucks, and dream up after a few observations that you are compatible with. Women are very hard on each other when it comes to judging each other's looks, not to mention being jealous and catty, and they are not that  keen on lifting the self-esteem of their peers who are potentially their rivals. You look at the world through pioneer-colored glasses.  B)   Whatever.

So, do you think only .women and gay men can judge the looks of men??  :o

 

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Cynique

So, do you think only .women and gay men can judge the looks of men??

Ofcourse not.
Anyone can judge anyone's looks.

Even if you don't find that particular demographic attractive, there are some universal traits of attractiveness going beyond sex or even race and culture that allows you to kind of "size up" who may be considered attractive and who probably would be regulated to the more unattractive category.


For example......
I don't have to be gay to realize that most women probably don't find these men very attractive physically:

Image result for ugly men

 

 


However women and gay men are the MOST qualified to judge on a man's physical attractivenss.
Because they tend to be attracted to that male demographic by nature, they notice a lot of minor details and subconscious traits that lesbians and straight men may not notice.

I don't believe this is just my opinion, I think it's closer to fact.

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@Pioneer1Sounds like an opinionated generalization to me. You been hangin out in Starbucks again? 

Being attracted to a man is not necessarily the same as a man being attractive.  A woman can be attracted to a brilliant dynamic man who dresses well, exudes a certain confidence and respires with animal magnetism but who does not have a handsome face.   And she may be turned off by an attractive man with handsome chiseled features  but who has a conceited cocky demeanor and talks, but can't walk a good game.  

Some women don't like pretty men and to others, power is a great aphrodisiac. Last but not least, one of a man's most attractive features in hidden in his groin.  Size matters.    

I think there are too many variables and nuances to take your "theory" seriously.

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