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zaji

Bringing Fire...

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You all bring so much passion and fire to your posts! I appreciate ALL of your words and look forward to seeing many more thought provoking posts such as the ones I've read.

 

I really do mean it when I say I appreciate ALL thoughts, not just some. Watching the opposition between ideas sharpens me and makes me even more desirous to fall back and detach from views that could be debated all day long. Bottom line, 99% of what we know we get from methods we cannot personally confirm. It's a sad truth. But it is what it is. I lay wait like a lion in the bushes for new information to guide us to truths. 

 

Stay lively and keep bringing the fire! 

 

Thanks for having me here!

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Yes along those same lines I want to thank @Pioneer1. He has and continues to assist me to be more open minded. Its is about challenging my own thinking and being supportive. 

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@DelI can't believe anybody would consider Pioneer  a role model when it comes to being open-minded.:o Does this mean you are now more receptive to Troy's POV on climate change? :huh:  Or does Pioneer's lack of open-mindness  inspire you to not be that way? -_- Or is it because his opinionated pontificating exposes you to points of view you have no problem swallowing? :blink:  Or is it because you empathize with him for not conceding to Troy? -_- Since you have confessed that you are trying to "improve" yourself, is this because you have decided to be a more tolerant person -  or because you didn't realize that you weren't a tolerant person?  Huh? Huh? Huh?  Huh? Huh? 

 

 Just curious about your mid-life transformation/epiphany.  Me, i'm too old to change. ^_^  Which is why i can't resist taking pot shots at Pioneer. :P   i guess i should congratulate him on acquiring 2 new choir members for his preaching.  Meanwhile, i await his next post,  ever ready to disagree, - if he shows up.  :rolleyes:

 

 

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In some ways I am the same. I think and if someone makes sense I acknowledge them especially if i disagree with them. 

 

Pioneer said that he did not go to University. Yet he will debate those of us who have gone to Uni. His statement was honest and I was humbled by it. 

 

So I can't be an elitist nor attack him or anyone else personally. 

 

When he was debating with Troy. I said that his position was logical and Troy's wasn't.  That wasn't an emotional response. 

 

I have softened my stance on climate change but not on the science.

 

Based on the discussions I have seen here, Pioneer isn't less open minded than anyone else. Or at least not by much.

 

If you look at my post about Viola Davis I wasn't on either side. 

 

There are two things that are important to me.  Being able to think in a full circle. And in order to do so I need to be open minded.

 

I idolise none. However Pioneer wants to improve the lot of Black Folks. Something that appears important to  a few of the active contributors.  While i may disagree with his solutions or even what he thinks are  the causes of said problem. I commend him and any other person who wants to make the world better. 

 

I have learned at various times that my self perception can be skewed.

 

I believe I have addressed your queries.  If my position or motivation is unclear say so.

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Zaji

Bottom line, 99% of what we know we get from methods we cannot personally confirm.


This is one of the reasons that if I were to operate a school one of the subjects I would NOT teach is "history".
Not only can't most things that occured prior to 150 years ago actually be proven (by human beings atleast)....but every time you turn around "new facts" are coming out about events in ancient history.

Everytime you open up Time magazine you're sure to find an article where some White man with glasses has "discovered" some new interesting fact about an ancient civilization.

It makes you wonder if he's making it all up.
....or if it's true, how long he's beeing sitting on and hiding this knowledge before he DECIDED to release it.





Del

 

Yes along those same lines I want to thank @Pioneer1.


You're more than welcome bro.

 

 

 



Cynique

Del is ACTUALLY trying to be objective.....something you only preach about.

He's trying to take emotion out of his views and look at things from a more logical way so that they aren't colored with emotion and self-interest which too often contaminates the conclusions people come to and force them to reject TRUTHS that they would ordinarily accept.

 


 

Which is why i can't resist taking pot shots at Pioneer. i guess i should congratulate him on acquiring 2 new choir members for his preaching. Meanwhile, i await his next post, ever ready to disagree, - if he shows up.


I KNOW you can't resist.....lol.
That's what I kept trying to tell you in the other thread.

You THRIVE off of the energy you get from my giving you attention, negative or positive.

Now be a good girl, stop attacking people just because they agree with me, and run along-

 

 

 

Image result for sexy old man


.....before I call up your 72 year old boy toy and tell him to stop "lighting your fire", lol.
 

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3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

This is one of the reasons that if I were to operate a school one of the subjects I would NOT teach is "history".
Not only can't most things that occured prior to 150 years ago actually be proven (by human beings atleast)....but every time you turn around "new facts" are coming out about events in ancient history.

Everytime you open up Time magazine you're sure to find an article where some White man with glasses has "discovered" some new interesting fact about an ancient civilization.

It makes you wonder if he's making it all up.
....or if it's true, how long he's beeing sitting on and hiding this knowledge before he DECIDED to release it

 

@Pioneer1

 

Age of Fraud and Piltdown man. AND, all that is hidden in the Vatican. That's all I'll say about that. Those things speak for themselves. 

 

As for prior to 150 years ago, I'll venture to say even now, in the last 150 year, 99% of the things we believe or think we know we cannot personally confirm. We take many things on faith/trust, and that those humans in labs (and overall science/biology) are being honest with us. Additionally, only a tiny handful of things can we confirm that were learned through those lab studies. Most things we simply cannot confirm and are forced to look at what OTHERS have WRITTEN about it, not our personal observations and experiences. And, even IF we accept the observations of that which we cannot confirm, we still need to consider that not all conclusions about an observation will be the same, or accurate. History has shown that humans often come to different conclusions on a shared observation. Which is why whenever reasonable and possible, people should be allowed to make their own observations and have their own experiences so they can see what they walk away with from those observations/experiences. Of course, within reason. I certainly don't need to take a teaspoon of mercury to accept the observations on how it affects the body. Why? Because it is not a single observation that has led to an understanding of what mercury does the body. It is thousands of observations of the outcome that led to the conclusion. 

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@DelThanks for your heartfelt reply.

 

@zajiThe Pilt Down man fraud was publicly exposed years ago. Margaret Meade and a host of other white anthropologists have also had their studies discredited.   And does anybody really not know about America's revisionist history? Or realize that down through the ages, victors are who get to write history.  i notice you omitted the the biggest con job of all and that is Christianity. 

 

i agree that we should question everything.  That's what Buddha advised. We are all free to do this at the risk of laying the groundwork for anarchy.  When you doubt everything  except what you want to believe, you're in limbo.   

 

@Pioneer1Still can't get past the "boy toy' thing, can you?  Kinda takes the wind out of your sails when it comes to your ego-driven fantasy that of all the male posters on the board, you exude something that attracts me,  Yeah, like a fly is attracted to dung.  Get real.  It's very easy for anybody who thinks outside of the box to disagree with a mundane thinker like you.

 

A young version of my boy toy.   Eat your heart out, loser, who pouted because i preferred the words and wisdom of white philosophers and poets instead of your trite utterances.

 

handsome man.jpg

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1 hour ago, Cynique said:

The Pilt Down man fraud was publicly exposed years ago.

 

@Cynique

 

I'm aware of that. The point I was intending is that it went on for about 50 years before it was exposed as a scientific fraud. I have the book on the entire fiasco. Bottom line, many people believed it for 50 years, which is a long time for a scientific fraud to go on. That is why I cautiously accept science. Lots of fraud and revisionist history that continues today. 

 

I discarded ALL religions decades ago. No use for them beyond idol conversation and a few items within them that were stolen from other cultures. 

 

Until the lion writes her own story, the tale of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.  - Proverb

 

I neither doubt everything nor believe everything. I examine everything and humbly submit when I don't know. And, I can say I don't know without accepting a thing. It doesn't mean, at least for me, that I am in limbo. It simply means I am humble enough to say "I don't know." Period. I don't know if there is life on another planet. Admitting that doesn't leave me in limbo. It means I am admitting that I don't know a thing and may not know in my lifetime. And that is ok. I have no desire to be so egotistical that I MUST know everything while I'm living and breathing. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, zaji said:

I discarded ALL religions decades ago. No use for them beyond idol conversation and a few items within them that were stolen from other cultures. 

i like that; "idol" used in place of "idle".  I love puns.

1 hour ago, zaji said:

It simply means I am humble enough to say "I don't know." Period. I don't know if there is life on another planet.

"I.Don't.Know" is a phrase to live by. i like it because it raises the possibility of there being an answer to the most profound question; we just don't know it.

You escape being included in my generalization about people in limbo because, unlike some other people, you don't consider yourself an infallible oracle. One of my favorite adages says:

 

He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool. Shun him.
He who knows not, and knows that he knows not, is a child. Teach him.
He who knows, and knows not that he knows, is asleep. Wake him.
He who knows, and knows that he knows, is a leader. Follow him.

 

Always fun to engage you in conversation. 

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{sigh} there is never a theory or finding that is accepted on the word of a single scientist.  All findings are independently vetted by other scientists.  It is common for a finding to be rejected because the experient can not be reproduced or others found flaws in the method.  The Pilt Down man was always suspect, never universally accepted, and is exceptional because it too so long to disprove. 

 

If you don't trust so called "white science," that is fine.  But science has no color, true scientists try to eliminate biases, unlike the vast majority of the rest of us.

 

3 hours ago, Cynique said:

When you doubt everything  except what you want to believe, you're in limbo

 

Cynique this is a good observation, but I would not use the word "limbo," I think "denial" would be better.  In any case, much of what science tells us is beyond our ability to validate.  So if you reject what science says, that is a personal decision and based upon nothing more than your opinion.

 

I trust the scientific community over anyone's opinion including my own.  We used to call it learning when someone more knowledgeable relates information to some less knowledgeable.  I appreciate in the age of social media access to more information does not mean we are any better informed....

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@Del, it is not about doubting everything it is about doubt everything except what you want to believe.  The analogous question would be; Is there much difference in believing the words of others except what you want to believe or doubting everything  except what you want to believe?

 

The answer is no.

 

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Bottom line, 99% of what we know we get from methods we cannot personally confirm. It's a sad truth


I really think we should pay closer attention to this fact and the reasons behind it.

Why is it that so much of the information that we as AfroAmericans put our trust in and shape our lives around come from OUTSIDE of our community?

 

Malcolm X said if a man won't TREAT you right, what makes you think he'll TEACH you right.

I also believe RELIGION in general plays a major role in conditioning our minds to just "accept" certain things as true whether we have verified them or not.

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On 13/02/2018 at 12:09 AM, Troy said:

@Del, it is not about doubting everything it is about doubt everything except what you want to believe.  The analogous question would be; Is there much difference in believing the words of others except what you want to believe or doubting everything  except what you want to believe?

 

The answer is no.

 

not to me. clearly you and I are different. 

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The choice is between doubting everything.

 

Believing everything you've been told.

 

(Thinking for yourself ) 

 

(Allowing others to do your thinking for you ).

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Hopefully, in the process of thinking for one's self, one will make the choice to be objective. A difficult aspiration. 

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14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I also believe RELIGION in general plays a major role in conditioning our minds to just "accept" certain things as true whether we have verified them or not.

 

@Pioneer1 

BAM!!!  This is exactly what came to my mind when I watched the Science Delusion video. A lot of those "constants" are reinforced by the dogma of an unchanging god

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On ‎11‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 6:49 AM, zaji said:

You all bring so much passion and fire to your posts! I appreciate ALL of your words and look forward to seeing many more thought provoking posts such as the ones I've read.

 

I really do mean it when I say I appreciate ALL thoughts, not just some. Watching the opposition between ideas sharpens me and makes me even more desirous to fall back and detach from views that could be debated all day long. Bottom line, 99% of what we know we get from methods we cannot personally confirm. It's a sad truth. But it is what it is. I lay wait like a lion in the bushes for new information to guide us to truths. 

 

Stay lively and keep bringing the fire! 

 

Thanks for having me here!

I don't think it is possible to verify most information. Which is partially  why I sat there are no facts.

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19 hours ago, Delano said:

I don't think it is possible to verify most information. Which is partially  why I sat there are no facts.

 

Nope, it is not possible. Which is why I stay open and latch on to nothing as the end of the conversation. Those first folks who learned how to fly had no initial proof that they could defy gravity, they couldn't verify the information beyond their own experiences. But they went forward and tried to find ways to defy it. This is how I see information I cannot verify. I don't take it as the end of the conversation just because I cannot verify it, nor do I dismiss it outright. I observe.  I'm equally aware that I will die not knowing/understanding 99% of how this planet works, or seeing 99% of what exists on it. And that is fine and the lot of all humans on Earth. I move forward and stay open to the endless possibilities in this universe.

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Mythology is full of tragedy and murder and jealousy and lust!  Its villains prevail as often as its heroes.  

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1 hour ago, Cynique said:

Mythology is full of tragedy and murder and jealousy and lust!  Its villains prevail as often as its heroes.  

Art mirroring life. I would also include love songs. 

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@Del You lost me.  If mythology mirrors life and all of its woes, why is it  a "comfort to a broken heart"? And what is it you're including love songs in? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Because music can create change or deepen a mood.

 

A song has assisted me end a relationship and quit a job.

If you haven't experienced this try listening to a movie without the soundtrack. 

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i'm a GREAT fan of music, but i don't think it has anything to do with trumping facts.  i guess i should assume your mentioning it was an after thought that had nothing to do with your original statement.

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If I had a love affair that isn't working and has me feeling low.  I would rather listen to love songs sad or happy might work, than someone explain what is happening to my physiology or psychology. I want to find some meaning for my situation. As opposed to some knowledgeable psychologist telling me some facts.

 

For me Mythology/poetry/music centers around both meaning and feeling. Science is in a different sphere. However both can assist in defining identity.

 

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Del & Zaji

I don't think it is possible to verify most information.


I don't know if you can personally verify all of the information you recieve BUT....

You can atleast stop accepting information from KNOWN LIARS.

The intelligent thing to do is accept your information from people who are known to have always presented truthful information with no errors or falsehoods or deceptive motives.

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3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

The intelligent thing to do is accept your information from people who are known to have always presented truthful information with no errors.

Too bad, you don't practice what you preach.  This is a criteria you rarely adhere too, because you think you are the final authority on everything, in you entrenched m/o of anecdotal opinionated cherry-picking.   

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