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Delano

Cultural Wars and the Black Panther

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Hey Del it would be helpful if you shared a bit more about the links you are posting.  The title at a minimum and the reason why you are sharing it.  That would help others determine if they want to read the articles.  The first paragraph, for a well written article will contain a thesis statement, so that is usually the the easiest thing to do

 

I know you are accessing the site from a mobile device.  Whenever I'm using my cell phone to post to the site I was use the voice to text feature, that helps a great deal.

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Coogler Boseman will be doing historic projects. Look at the films they have done to date. Fruitcake Station 42 Thurgood Marshall. This won't be the first time you come over to my  point  of view. But it will be the most satisfying.  @Troy

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Coogler has done some brilliant films -- no doubt!  But you will never see me do a wakanda salute or look to wakanda for a source of Black pride it is just a movie based upon pure fiction, unlike the Fruitvale, 42, and Marshall films.

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Man...this thread is all over the place.

I had a friend tell me the other day that he hasn't seen Black Panther and WILL NOT go see it.

I asked him why, and he said that the conflict between Africans and African Americans in the movie is just contributing to the division amongst Black folk.

Now for those who've actually seen the film.....they would no that this African vs African American issue was such a minor aspect of the movie that it's almost not worth talking about.
But when you do like my friend and let reviews and critics sway you BEFORE you see the film for yourself.....you end up missing out on a couple hours of enjoyment.


This is why it's best to see things for yourself so that you can determine things from your OWN eyes instead of someone elses.

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Maybe, but you friend has a point @Pioneer1; sometimes not exposing yourself to propaganda is the best defense.

 

Y'all might recall that during the run up to that last election, I'd decided I was not going to vote, once Hillary became the Democratic candidate.  I had been bombarded by so much anti-Hillary "news." I had no interest in supporting her candidacy.  Obviously 45 was not a viable alternative.  

 

During conversations here, @Cynique convinced me that I really needed to vote, and I ultimately did.

 

Today, we know that social media targeted people with messages psychometrically designed to get you to support 45 or to not vote at all.  This is a fact.  I feel I was was manipulated, through my use of social media, to loose interest in voting for Clinton. 

 

Today to protect myself, I don't read anything on social media unless it is directly related to something I've posted -- and that is always AALBC.com related stuff.  I simply refuse to subject myself to Facebook's manipulation.  

 

So I get it when some people actively avoid seeing the film and refuse to expose themselves to Disney's propaganda.  There is a part of me that wished I had not paid to see the film. But I'm not going to beat myself up over it, because I'm not nearly as susceptible to the hype as most seem to be.

 

So it is not always best to see things for yourself.  There are other ways to acquire knowledge, reading is one.

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Troy

 

Maybe, but you friend has a point @Pioneer1; sometimes not exposing yourself to propaganda is the best defense.


In my thinking, this is EXACTLY what he did when he listened to critics and pretty much let THEM decide whether or not the movie was worth seeing.....instead of seeing it for himself.

Some movies are propaganda.
But sometimes the propaganda is actually in the CRITIQUE of the movie by critics with an agenda to besmirch it.

 

 

 

So I get it when some people actively avoid seeing the film and refuse to expose themselves to Disney's propaganda. There is a part of me that wished I had not paid to see the film. But I'm not going to beat myself up over it, because I'm not nearly as susceptible to the hype as most seem to be.

So it is not always best to see things for yourself. There are other ways to acquire knowledge, reading is one.


We can probably both agree that even reading the TRANSCRIPTS of a movie carries only a fraction of the effect on an individual than of actually watching it.

How much less of an effect would reading the writings....not of the movie....but simply of people discussion it, be?

And how much DISTORTION from the actual film itself is produced in the minds of those who have never seen the film but get their only information on it from 2nd and 3rd hand sources?

 

The only reasonable excuse for a person not to actually watch a film is if they suspect some SUBLIMINAL programing going on in the film (seriously).
Outside of that danger......
I don't see any harm in an intellectually well balanced individual subjecting themselves to movies that may have had negative reviews in order to atleast make an educated and informed decision.

In some cases, the best thing to do IS to see a film that is supposedly harmful and part of a larger propaganda machine in order to study and dismantle it. In most professional endeavors people are taught to study their opponents to not only learn about them but to come up with the best strategies to counter them.

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Sure a good argument can be made that by ony exposing yourself to view points that mirror your own, your ideas are never challenged and you never learn.  This is a classic filter bubble.

 

But man we already saw this movie we know how it the game works, there is nothing new here except for the fact that our reaction is much more exaggerated that I can recall in recent memory.

 

Besides I'm sure you can think of a great many things that you don't have to experience to understand are bad.  I was never enslaved but I read about it.  I don't need to have my children taken away from me, see my woman raped, or feel the pain of the whip.  I can read about it and imagine.  Is that the same thing is being enslaved -- of course not, but it is better than not knowing about it or seeing some sugar coated version of negroes happily singing in he fields.

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Troy

When you said "we already saw this movie", what exactly did you mean?

As far as experiencing things.......

I'm talking strictly about movies and other forms of media, not everything.
And again, unless there is a direct threat of hypnotic suggestion or subliminal messaging, I fail to see the HARM in those who are psychologically balanced viewing movies and other forms of media they may or may not agree with so that they can atleast dissect it.

Now if a person is prone to hallucinations and delusions and believe what they're seeing is REAL, then perhaps they should be protected from viewing certain films....for their own saftey and perhaps the safety of those around them.

But for most people, besides boredom....what harm would it be to drop $10 or $15 at your local theater and check the flick out so you can ATLEAST know what you're talking about when you criticize it.

Some of these online review critics and all of their conspiracy theories about the film that only THEY seem to have picked upon sound more like propagandists than the film itself.....lol.

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@Pioneer1 there is no harm in going to see a film.  I do it from time to time myself.  The problem is went we begin to elevate this fiction into something we worship.

 

Don't you see this is the exact same strategy that put 45 into office.  Some slick marketers created the fiction of 45 being a savvy businessman for the purpose of bolstering his profile for the Apprentice "reality" TV program.  The nation brought into the fiction and we made him POTUS.  The facts of his business failures did not matter, what mattered was compelling fiction that was created.  

 

White folks are needy too.  They needed someone who spoke to their pain and promised to make things better and on paper 45 is doing just that.  45 will serve out his term and do not be surprised if he wins a second term -- unless Oprah runs and she'll win in a landslide.

 

 

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Fruitvale was another tragic story and a decent film. 

 

Regarding the historical significance of the Black Panther film {yawn}.

 

Del, I don't read the Hollywood Reporter and will not subject myself to straight up gossip and propaganda--particularly on the subject of hollyweird.

 

As far is the MSN article if what you took away from it is that, the Black Panther film is responsible for Saudi Arabia lifting their decades old ban on films, then you completely missed the point of the article.  But given your reverence for the film I understand how that can happen.

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The first film to be shown in Saudi Arabia is the Black Panther. You my friend have missed the point. 

 

Is it a great movie yes. Is it a great film. I  didn't think so. But I recently got into a verbal argument about the film. It is a great film and it is doing great things.  An there is no other film that can compare to its Global Cultural significance  

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Black Panther fever seems to have died down in this country, and blacks are moving on to whatever the next fad or cause is.  Decrying the death of a young unarmed brotha  shot to death in his grandmother's back yard by trigger-happy cops in Sacramento, California, and the events on the premier of "Empire"s new season seem to be filling their latest need to flex their blackness. Also, a lot of curiosity about  the unidentified female who bit Beyonce on the cheek at a glitzy affair.  Ho Hum

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Besides the excellent entertainment it provides, I still maintain that much of the value of Black Panther is in it's ability to INSPIRE.

I considered Barack Obama to be a pretty ineffective "stuffed suit" of a President as far as Black issues are concerned, but just his presence in the White House had the ability to INSPIRE millions of Black children to better themselves with the hope of achieving greatness.

This film is the same.
It's has tremendous ability to INSPIRE Black people to build a bigger and better society for themselves.

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Not only is Black Panther fever dying down in America, what other countries are saying is even less encouraging. Saudi Arabia, etc.; Blacks bearing their souls, spirit and justified disdain to entertain White America. 

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Also the first propaganda involving African American's. like propaganda in Viet Nam telling Blacks to "go home," that war is not their fight. True but exploitative in nature. Saudi Arabia is full of shrimps taking advantage of an opportunity, taking advantage of Trump with boats and bribes! Please don't fall into the 'other countries believe in our struggels,' pit." They could not care less about Blacks; hell they don't even care about their own people, except those who support the Prince's agenda.

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Not even the truth, facts can undo the denial of a true believer. Saudi Arabia, nor the Palestinian people believe or support freedoms African American's fight for; nor look at American Blacks as having achieved anything. That's the truth. They are totalitarian despots who support oppression of their own people. That's a fact.

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K2

 

Also the first propaganda involving African American's. like propaganda in Viet Nam telling Blacks to "go home," that war is not their fight. True but exploitative in nature. Saudi Arabia is full of shrimps taking advantage of an opportunity, taking advantage of Trump with boats and bribes! Please don't fall into the 'other countries believe in our struggels,' pit." They could not care less about Blacks; hell they don't even care about their own people, except those who support the Prince's agenda


Man, you how did you manage to fit 50 entirely different issues into ONE paragraph....lol.

First of all if Black Panther is propaganda.......
Who is it FROM and who is it aimed AT?

Second, how is Black Panther "exploitative"?

Third, did you said that the Saudis were "taking advantage" of Trump??????
I didn't now that was even possible but if so....how so?

All of the money that the Saudis enjoy COME FROM the West.
They don't print money in Saudi Arabia, they get the money as well as the little toys they play around with from America and Europe in exchange for their oil.

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1 minute ago, Delano said:

Thanks Pioneer. 

Although I am not a expecting much clarity. 


I'm not planning on staying up all night waiting for it myself......LOL.

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@Delano: How pretentious of you, of course you don't believe in facts; fiction, or objectivity is more your thing, than facts?

 

@Pioneer1: Thanks or clearing that up! In the course of logic and critical thinking one may, or may not consider the context of 'propaganda' in public discourse. Hint #1: Saudi Arabia's use, allowing a movie depicting sensitivities of freedom is a contradiction to its policies and government rule. Hint #2: 'SAUDIS ARE NOT RICH FROM WESTERN COUNTRIES,' they control vast oil deposits from all over the Southeast Asia territories. Not from America, EU, UK, or anywhere else. 

 

Are you shooting from the hip, or your butt? Perhaps your logic, Pioneer1 is  something that requires a restroom, not a chat room!

 

Finally, during Trump's visit to the Kingdom they gave him a boat, and some other gratuities I can't remember; they had him analysed and evaluated even before he got off the plane. A sucker for attention! 

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K2

Hint #1: Saudi Arabia's use, allowing a movie depicting sensitivities of freedom is a contradiction to its policies and government rule.


I'm not the smartest person in the world so help me out.....

Please explain in detail exactly how the Black Panther is movie about "sensitivities of freedom".

I thought it was a virtually all Black movie about a Black super hero who saved his nation.


 

 

Hint #2: 'SAUDIS ARE NOT RICH FROM WESTERN COUNTRIES,' they control vast oil deposits from all over the Southeast Asia territories. Not from America, EU, UK, or anywhere else.

Lol....are you serious?

Man the Saudis have had that oil under them for THOUSANDS of years and many if not most didn't even know about it let alone what to do with it!

The "riches" didn't come until less than 100 years ago when WHITE MEN went over there and GAVE THEM MONEY for their oil.

If White people stopped giving them money for their oil and stopped selling them those toys (cars, planes, plasma televisions, ect....) they're playing with, their "riches" would dry up in ONE generation.

Why?

Because they aren't producing the "riches" they're enjoying; White folks are.



.

 

Finally, during Trump's visit to the Kingdom they gave him a boat, and some other gratuities I can't remember; they had him analysed and evaluated even before he got off the plane. A sucker for attention!

As if a billionaire can't afford to buy HIS OWN damn plane....lol.

Let me get this straight............

White folks BUILT the damn planes, but the Saudis are going to "take advantage" of one of them by bribing him and suckering him up with one of the planes that THEY built and probably sold to an Arab for 20 times what it was worth?

It looks like you're enjoying yourself in that avatar, but I think you've been standing in the sun TOO LONG....lol.

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Response 1: I rest my case as to social value of the movie. Sensitivities of freedom is what's got Black folk so excited, isn't it?

 

Response 2: New on the stage of modernity, Saudis were nomads, lived off the fat of their land, developed and expanded their own value system of wealth. From gold, minerals, doctors, scientists, whatever. Now, their value system is based on what other countries value, paper, and coins. The word wealth has many shades of meaning, but most involve having a lot of something — often money or something else that's valuable. You might have a wealth of experience, or you might have great personal wealth.

They are rich because of their treasures, and expensive belongings, oil, and history.

 

Response 3: WHAT??? 

 

Which proves just how stupid Trump is, yes, a sucker! Or are you saying that a person can't be taken for a fool if she/he has more or equal to what's offered??? Just what is your point here?

 

By the say, that isn't an avatar, it's me, alive and in the flesh. Unlike yourself, trying to hid. Trying because everybody else, except you, see who you are.

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K2


I rest my case as to social value of the movie. Sensitivities of freedom is what's got Black folk so excited, isn't it?


A case has to be MADE before it can be rested.
Your case hasn't even been opened yet.....lol.


Again, HOW is the Black Panther a movie about "sensitivies of freedom"????

In what parts or what scenes of the movie were people being denied their freedom?

In what parts or what scenes of the movie were people being held captive or enslaved?




New on the stage of modernity, Saudis were nomads, lived off the fat of their land, developed and expanded their own value system of wealth. From gold, minerals, doctors, scientists, whatever. Now, their value system is based on what other countries value, paper, and coins. The word wealth has many shades of meaning, but most involve having a lot of something often money or something else that's valuable. You might have a wealth of experience, or you might have great personal wealth.

They are rich because of their treasures, and expensive belongings, oil, and history.


First of all, like you have repeatedly suggested....not all of them are rich.
I'm guessing only a tiny minority are rich while the majority live in poverty.

Secondly, I don't know how new and modern the Saudis are, but the Arabs have existed for atleast 3000 years.

Yes various Arab groups have indeed faired well well under different Islamic empires, but can you show me any documented evidence of Saudis having the TYPE of riches (U.S. currency, limosines, fancy cars, jet planes, glass sky scrapers, ect...) and entertainment they're enjoying today.

They didn't seem to get it until the White folks came over and gave it to them in exchange for their oil.





 

WHAT???


Which proves just how stupid Trump is, yes, a sucker! Or are you saying that a person can't be taken for a fool if she/he has more or equal to what's offered??? Just what is your point here?


My point is that it's very unlikely that the Saudis or any other Arab family are in a position to "fool" or "take advantage of" rich and powerful White people.

If anything, it's most likely the other way around.

 

 


 

Unlike yourself, trying to hid.


Lol.....
Aren't YOU the one who said you fled the country because some sort of authority was looking for you?

You look silly as hell accusing OTHER folks of hiding when YOU'RE running off ducking and dodging yourself, lol.

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55 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

I'm not the smartest person in the world so help me out..

That's putting it mildly.  And "helping you out" will be met with resistance because what you can't distort, you ignore.  

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Sensitivity of freedom: How Blacks relate to the American environment of racism, etc. The case made several weeks ago. That Black Panther movie fail to inspire, in any meaningful way! And which you and Brother Delano insist to be inspired. But to what end. Still unanswered.

 

Can you show or evidence Europeans having great wealth one-hundred years ago? NO, you can not, not even 'originally inspired' art, language, or science.

 

And yet, the Saudis, Russia, China, even NK have taken advantage of the so-called most powerful country in the world, with bribes and out thinking.

 

No, I'm the one who said, or even inferred I fled the U.S. because I was chased away. Not me, because I'm not a coward. I'm here because I have an interest here, more important than any interest I have there. If I were hiding, I would do as you. But I'm not a coward and afraid of no man. 

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Cynique

That's putting it mildly. And "helping you out" will be met with resistance because what you can't distort, you ignore.


No.
It would be putting it "mildly" to say YOU are too distorted to ignore....lol.



K2


Sensitivity of freedom: How Blacks relate to the American environment of racism, etc. The case made several weeks ago. That Black Panther movie fail to inspire, in any meaningful way! And which you and Brother Delano insist to be inspired. But to what end. Still unanswered.


Again, WHAT PART OR SCENE of the Black Panther movie dealt with sensitivies of freedom or the lack there of?

Name a specific scene.

You're saying the movie is propaganda, again, I asked BY WHO and AIMED AT WHO?




Can you show or evidence Europeans having great wealth one-hundred years ago? NO, you can not, not even 'originally inspired' art, language, or science.


You shouldn't answer your own question.
You should let those who are more qualified....lol.

The Vatican of Rome which is the seat of the extremely wealthy Catholic Chursh is in Europe (last time I checked) and existed beyond 100 years ago.

European central banks financed slavery and colonialism with millions if not BILLIONS of dollars all over the world far beyond 100 years ago.

By any measure whether we're talking about stock piles of jewelry, a wealth of universities, weaponry, ect....Europe having massive wealth beyond 100 years ago is not even up for debate.

For a person who claims to be so brave and fearless, you sure did FREAK OUT when you realized that that wasn't my actual picture I have up....lol.



 

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"WHAT PART OR SCENE of the Black Panther movie dealt with sensitives of freedom or the lack there of?" None, no part, nor does it deal with equality, nor does it have any social value. Hence, why else would anyone allow it; except to mock the Black spirit? The first western movie allowed in Saudi Arabia, for entertainment!!!

 

"You shouldn't answer your own question. You should let those who are more qualified....lol." You're moving too fast, take stock of your responses. Yes, I Sister Cynique said "DISTORT OR IGNORE," and she's right on the money!

 

"WHO and AIMED AT WHO?" By white folks for White folks, entertainment.

 

Vatican and the Rommen Catholic Church's wealth occurred after the crusades when they stole art, relics, and treasures from Southeast Asia. Not considered wealth, at least not belong to them. Except for the contributions of the Spaniards and any other European who brought into the ideas of those times. 

 

Go back and recheck your history, It was Jewish wealth, not European banks who funded slavery. Wealth Jews keep out of Banks because usury was considered against scripture. Need a refresher? Watch "Read Merchant of Venice." Or real history of Jewish wealth. Which was not kept in Europe?

 

No, Mr. Partner of the ignorant. 100 years ago, all Europe had was farmers, military men, and sea vessels. That was not 'GREAT WEALTH." Arguably and debatable. As far as I'm concerned, not even slavery added to their wealth, only made them the poorer of humanity. 

 

You see, with just a little more effort even you are learning who you really are!

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