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Delano

Cultural Wars and the Black Panther

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I think culture isn't just important to the nation it is the nation. Notice I am saying nation not country. The Black Nation has it's own culture within larger white culture. Pictures are an important part of culture. It shows what is important. So what gets made and what gets watched is important. The Black Panther is more successful because it fills a need. Just like cave painting .

Edited by Delano
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I think the American culture is one defined by consumption which is directed by the marketers of massive multinational corporations.  "Needs" are created then exploited in order to drive profits for the owners of these companies. 

 

Do you believe the owners of Disney, the ones writing Couglar's check, care about uplifting Black people or making money?

 

@Delano if you can you, and everyone, should watch this program on Netflix called Dirty Money, It really illustrates just how screwed up we are as a nation.  I watched the first two episodes.  The second one talks about Pay Day loans scandals.   

 

This is our culture. 

 

The only need Black Panther filled was the need of Disney to maximize revenues.  Disney simply exploited our wretchedness on the way to the bank.

 

 

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@Troy business cares about making money. If you can make good deeds profitable you can change the world.

 

The Black Panther crew has power because they have a story that reaches the masses. I worked on Wall Street hung with Rock Stars actors former drug dealers. I don't need to watch a clip to tell me what I already know. 

We are complicit in the dirt by the magnitude of our silence. 

Troy Coogler and co have the power to tell our stories and make Corporate America money. Did you hear what Angela Bassett said about working on the Black Panther movie?

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To me, black American culture has always been more about what blacks want, instead of what they need.  Currently, captivated by a herd mentality, blacks want to see fictional super heroes with the same color skin as theirs, comic book characters thriving in a non existent country  in Africa.  What they need is to get real, and become inspired by the good authentic role models who look like them and live right here in this country. 

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Wants above needs is the marketers credo. Yes Mel it's an elephant. 

Troy I think your prognosis is correct. I disagree about the solution. 

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A true culture includes your own language, your own religion or moral values, your own dietary habits, ect.......

I used to think Black people in America had our own culture, but I now realize that to be more accurate what Black America has is actually a SUB-CULTURE.
.....a modified form of Western culture that we were forced to carve out for ourselves to fit our needs and protect ourselves.

If we hadn't, we would have been swallowed up decades if not centuries ago.

But we really do need a COMPLETE culture of our own because I think it would be key to our success.

It was African themed, but I think the Black Panther movies gives us a TASTE of what it would look like if Black America had it's own genuine successful culture.


Although some Black people are smart enough and talented enough to find success in this society, the majority don't.
 

I've said time and time again that Black people are the most successful when we play OUR way and by OUR OWN rules.

If you look at illegal "street" venues like drugs, prostitution, and other illegal trades....Black people tend to thrive.
The only thing that destroys their business operations getting arrested locked up, not poor business decisions...lol.

Why?

Because atleast when it comes to the street life they can make up their OWN rules without having to follow rigid guidelines, ever increasing demands for more education, and other obstacles put in their way in order to be successful.

 

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Criminals thrive in all cultures that require a pedigree. Even though polite society has animalistic drives. 

 

Illegal activities are less rigged

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@Delano I'm just offering observations.  I did not propose any solutions.  But I will say this unless we do everything for ourselves we will never be able to truly define a culture, for we will always be at the mercy of another culture. 

 

Del, If you can make good deeds profitable you could indeed change the world.  The problem is I don't think this is possible in our current system.  I'm open to examples to the contrary.  Please don't say the Black Panther movie for I think you will discover that it will not change the world and make it better for Black people -- despite all the hype to the contrary.

 

Indeed when ever you see massive profits generated it is always exploitative and the real wealth accrues to only a few.  Of course you'd have not trouble coming up with plenty of examples of this on your own.

 

Virtually all criminal activities, by their very nature, drugs, extortion, gambling, prostitution, loan sharking, protection, etc.  The white boys on Wall Street get away with their crimes, but the Brothers in the 'hood get thrown under the jail.  The illegal activities for the very wealthy are less rigged, but for us they are the very definition of rigged.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Troy said:
21 hours ago, Troy said:

I think the American culture is one defined by consumption which is directed by the marketers of massive multinational corporations.  "Needs" are created then exploited in order to drive profits for the owners of these companies. 

@Delano

4 hours ago, Troy said:

But I will say this unless we do everything for ourselves we will never be able to truly define a culture, for we will always be at the mercy of another culture. 

 I'm just offering observations.  I did not propose any solutions.

From your statements I was making the following inferences: Black people are being exploiting by American culture.  The Solution is to have an independent self sustaining culture. 

 

So I have two questions, "Is that a plausible reading from your statements? Secondly and independently of the first question, "is the solution reasonable?

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OK @Delano, I guess I can see how you could take my statement, "I will say this unless we do everything for ourselves we will never be able to truly define a culture..." as a proposed solution.

 

The reality is that it is a broad statement of a goal, not an action plan of how to get there (i.e a solution).  It was not intended as anything more than that, because I don't know of a solution for Black folks to achieve independence in the context of this society.  Maybe we can all just move to Wakanda ;)

 

Since we ain't going anywhere.  My solution is to fight for independence in my corner of the world, books, which not only entertain and inform they define, record, and celebrate a culture. 

 

We can at least control our books can't we?

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4 hours ago, Troy said:

Del, If you can make good deeds profitable you could indeed change the world.  The problem is I don't think this is possible in our current system.

Raffles. People Donate blood for 2 cookies and orange juice. Charitable donations although some people give without expecting a tax break. Taxes go to public goods people wouldn't pay for, and they can be transfer payments to those less well off. Although this current administration has flipped that on its head. Lotteries.

 

Some of these examples are pure giving, some are giving with the hope that you will get something, some are transfers of wealth. 

The solution is Black Books. Or is my inference incorrect. 

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No the solution is not Black book, it just the battle I and some others have taken up. It is just one battle in a much larger war. 

 

Sure there are plenty of charitable people, but these people don't control anything.  How else could wealth inequality be so great, or how could so many people, be so impoverished, or go without health coverage, with all the charitable people we have?

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Human nature is the source of the problem and solution. 

You seem to be a expending a lot of energy to help people without a commensurate return of income. You embody the very thing you say could change the world. If I am in error tell me.

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Please don't say the Black Panther movie for I think you will discover that it will not change the world and make it better for Black people -- despite all the hype to the contrary.


Actually, I think and predict that the Black Panther movies will do more for Black America than President Obama did.....lol.

The movie...like Obama....gives HOPE and INSPIRATION.

Look, ofcourse Wakanda is made up BUT it gives you an illustration of how a successful and powerful Black society could possibly look if one were to exists!
And that's the beauty of it.

Sometimes people have to SEE something before they can consider the possibility of it.

 

 

 

 

How else could wealth inequality be so great, or how could so many people, be so impoverished, or go without health coverage, with all the charitable people we have?


There is so much poverty and lack of decent healthcare in America because Black people ALLOW this to be so!

I'll probably get push back from you and Cynique (lol) about this, but it goes right back to what I've said so often.   Most of the problems Black and poor people face in this nation are OUR FAULT because we haven't exercised our rights as American citizens the way we should.

Black people get into office and too often just continue the same narrative as their White predecessors. More business as usual.

Black people become mayor and instead of getting rid of the old city constitution and charter and making a NEW one....they keep the same one that the White founders of the city wrote up 200 years ago; and wonder why the city falls apart.

Like I said, Black people operate best when we do OUR THING and make up OUR RULES.

You may think this is crazy as hell, but with Obama in office and so many Black people in congress...Black men could have solved the "Broken Black Family" problem in 5 years by making POLYGAMY LEGAL in the United States instead of gay marriage.
But the thought probably never even crossed their minds.
White men in Utah have no problem pushing it, but Black men who INVENTED it are afraid to even mention it, lol.

A fool will keep playing a game invented by someone else and WONDER why they keep losing.

 

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@Delano, I don't think you are wrong but about me, but I also believe people are inherently good. A small minority of people F things up for the rest of us by creating the conditions in which good people do desperate things -- like vote for 45.

 

Pioneer I completely disagree with you ;)

 

Seriously, I think you are right to the extent that the current system has not served us very well and if you'd gave to be super optimistic or naive to believe that it ever will. 

 

I don't know about poligamy, most people can't handle one spouse...

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7 hours ago, Troy said:

I don't know about poligamy, most people can't handle one spouse...

How many people have you asked?

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Please don't say the Black Panther movie for I think you will discover that it will not change the world and make it better for Black people -- despite all the hype to the contrary.

What about the project they can do based on the success of the movie. Did Spike Lee make life better for Black People. Did any Black artist make life better for Black people. @Troy

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Del there you go again answering questions with questions...

 

The data is pretty clear, and stark. Better than 75% of marriages fail and an increasing number of women never get married.

 

Again, Del, are you willing to say that the film will change the world, or even Black people, for the better?  Please don't respond with another oblique question. Thanks.

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6 hours ago, Troy said:

Del there you go again answering questions with questions...

 

The data is pretty clear, and stark. Better than 75% of marriages fail and an increasing number of women never get married.

 

Again, Del, are you willing to say that the film will change the world, or even Black people, for the better?  Please don't respond with another oblique question. Thanks.

You really can't see this has already happened.

There are free screenings in Africa as well.

You can search online Free Black Panther screenings. 

 

Kendrick Lamar's Label Hosts Free 'Black Panther' Screenings in ...

www.variety.com/2018/film/news/anthony-...Proxy  Highlight

16 Feb 2018 ... Anthony 'Top Dawg' Tiffith ofTDE, Kendrick Lamar's label, and Interscope Records will host free “Black Panther” screenings in Watts.

 

7 Celebrities Who Provided Kids Free Screenings of 'Black Panther'

www.popcrush.com/celebrities-black-pant...Proxy  Highlight

28 Feb 2018 ... Black Panther has brokennumerous box office records since its release on February 16, and it doesn't look like its losing any steam. With celebrities like Serena Williams, Kendrick Lamar and even King T'Challa himself, Chadwick Boseman, treating kids to free screenings of what may be the most inspiring ...

Black Panther - Metro US

 

https://www.metro.us/entertainment/movi...Proxy  Highlight

20 Feb 2018 ... Kendrick Lamar and hisrecord label TDE provided free screenings of Black Panther to kids in Los Angeles when they rented three theaters.

 

 

Players Across NFL, NBA Landscape Host Free 'Black Panther ...

www.bleacherreport.com/articles/2760524...Proxy  Highlight

18 Feb 2018 ... Adams and the other athleteswho sponsored screenings of Black Panther around the country over Presidents Day weekend are also stronger, faster and have better instincts (as the movie's introduction explains of its titular character) than most people. They want to make the world a better place too.

Free Black Panther Movie Screening - SOLD OUT! - Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/events/1506457...Proxy  Highlight

Join Black Women United for a FREE movieshowing of Marvel's Black Panther! We will have our own private auditorium for the showing, so come out and enjoy the evening with us. After you reserve your ticket through Eventbrite, a confirmation email will be sent with further instructions. One ticket per person, please.

T.I. and Walmart Are Teaming up for a Free 'Black Panther' Screening

www.comicbook.com/marvel/2018/02/10/bla...Proxy  Highlight

10 Feb 2018 ... Marvel Cinematic Universestar TI is teaming up with Walmart to

Search the cultural relevance of The Black Panther movie

Reuters BBC Time et al think it is important. 

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@Troy it's not important to you but it is important to a lot of people. I would put it on par with Barrack Obama getting elected. 

It is a film that touches on big issues: Individual vs society, tradition vs innovation, loyalty vs duty. Morality vs ethics. It's is the first movie that the cast seem to like each other. There a bit of publicity with the cast and the villain who plays Claw you could feel it was just a cast. 

 

I am not trying to change your mind. Just that it is important beyond the dollars.

 

The first post by Cynosure had close to a 1,000 views in 3 days. So clearly it has some importance to your audience. It is important enough for us to be discussing whether it is relevant. 

7 hours ago, Troy said:

Del there you go again answering questions with questions...

 

The data is pretty clear, and stark. Better than 75% of marriages fail and an increasing number of women never get married.

 

Again, Del, are you willing to say that the film will change the world, or even Black people, for the better?  Please don't respond with another oblique question. Thanks.

Read this and tell me what you think.

Alan Jenkins has spoken at Harvard Law School. 

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/black-panther-global-significance-1087878

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While waiting for Troy to respond to the opinion solicited by Del, these are my thoughts.

 

The article is biased,  an example of Hollywood patting itself on the back, taking credit for and earning millions from an idea whose time had come, using isolated anecdotal evidence to make a questionable point.  Praise for a movie owing much of its success to exciting images, and aggrandizement of the age old conflict pitting heroes versus villains, with the heroes triumphing; a bakery dropping crumbs for hungry black folks starved for the sight of action figures who look like them. 

 

But when all the hype dies down, what is left?  Black Panther is a slick film about Africa not as it was. not as it now is, nor as it will ever be.  What  message does this comic book production really send?  What the Mother Land could've been, - but woefully is not.  White supremacy flexed its ruthless muscles and overwhelmed this continent, relegating it to the ranks of losers, losers who, nonetheless. continue to inspire the romanticized adoration of the diaspora in America where generic African garb. and liberated hair with all of its synthetic extensions, have become superficial badges of a bastardized African heritage.    

 

 And why is such slavish homage due to a continent whose countries were guilty of participating in the slave trade, selling its own into bondage, sending their shackled bodies across the Atlantic to a land where they would endure hardship and degradation for 4 centuries.  Where was African support during the Civil Rights struggle in this country, a movement launched by leaders descended from slaves, people shedding their blood sweat and tears in a quest for freedom, achieving gains that African immigrants now waltz over to this country and benefit from.  And, yes, this movie is comparable to Obama's election, an event that that was a "flash-in-the pan", one where, with help from authentic black Americans,  the son of a white woman and an African immigrant was elected to the highest office in the land, even though his forefathers had not paid their dues.  

 

Furthermore, how will the success of this example of great film making actually impact on black America? Will it create better schools, decrease the black prison population, generate jobs, stop black males from shooting each other, dissipate the baby/mama culture that has destabilized the family unit?   Or will it just continue to overshadow films based on true stories about heroic black people.  Films like "Hidden Figures", and the ones about the Tuskegee airmen, and Supreme Court Justice, Thurgood Marshall, the other movie starring Chadwick Boseman.  Where is the acclaim for the superbly-remade "Roots" saga, and the kicked to the curb Nate Turner story?  What is certain is that an inevitable sequel to Black Panther will perpetuate the mania.  Like "The God Father", it gives all indication of being a profitable franchise. Ka-Ching,

 

If i sound cynical, it's because i am.   But i am a voice in the wilderness when it comes to my assessment of the film.  You can't argue with success, and everybody loves a winner!

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A lot of people's perceptions about people and places are from movies .

 

 Let's see what their next project is and what they do with their celebrity.

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@Delano, I get it, a lot of people saw the film.  But even the writer of the article pointed out that this film will "cannot reverse generations of negative imagery and distortion." 

 

The point you are missing and that was overlooked in the article is that first and foremost this film is a vehicle to make money.  If someone did an analysis to see who will make the most money from the film this will be plain to you.

 

Look I wish all of the ills heaped upon Black people globally would disappear as a result of this movie, but it is woefully idealistic to believe this will be the case.  I'm surprised you would hold this position. 

 

Do you think this film will change 45's attitude toward "the Blacks?"  Do you think Colin with get he QB job back. Do you think they will ever let more than 10 Black people into Stuyvesant HS? Do you think all the trigger happy Po-Po will stop gunning down unarmed Black people? 

 

Do you think more than a handful of Black people, if any will share proportionately in the fantastic profits generated by this film?  Or will our role continue to be that of consumer; continually forking over our dough to people the owners of Disney who we have allowed to create our Mythology

 

You don't see Native Americans running around talking about how great Pocahontas was for the indigenous people of North America.  The few that are left have more sense that we apparently have.

 

You do realize that The Hollywood Reporter article you site, and well as all the other sources --including the NFL,  is part of the same propaganda machine that made this film so fantastically popular.  This material is created to get you to think exactly the why you are thinking.

 

It is good that you visit sites like AALBC so that you are exposed to ideas not beholden to the same propaganda. that has figured out a way to both define your culture reap great financial rewards from it.

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On 10/03/2018 at 6:06 AM, Cynique said:

You can't argue with success, and everybody loves a winner!

Clearly not everyone. I have heard two types of criticisms : it's fantasy let's look at black history. It is an Africa that never existed. 

 

It meets a need that the film Malcolm X didn't. Some say it changes the image of how Blacks are seen others say it is fantasy. I would say it is both. The film is a fantasy because we are riding a Chimera we call reality conciousness life maya. Is the film important? yes and no depending on your perspective. Is it historic? Yes because it has shown us images and characters we haven't seen and the world was thirsty. It was half of tickets sold. And that is historic.

China is saying Wakanda Forever.

 

 

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Theyare also buying land in Africa and Australia. I would make a distinction between what the government does vs what the citizenry does.

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I'm not sure about Australia but I've read a lot of news articles about the chinese owned corporations setting up factories in Kenya and other parts the continent that are not environmentally friendly and - the Kenyan government has finally gotten around to shutting them down. So would business owners and workers count as non-government entities?  

 

Also, I don't look at chinese nationals doing landgrabs in African nations as a positive.  In fact, Chinese nationals own a lot of  the hotels and other properties here in the U.S.  and also noted for being in bed with jared kushner for that 666 park avenue deal ...

nah they need to keep wakanda anything out of their mouths - they don't do us right either...

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I am not trying to defend China , it is like saying Donald Trump and Google are representative of the American people.

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7 hours ago, Delano said:

Cynique how many Chinese immigrants  have said this to you?

Are there immigrants from China in America.  (Not Taiwan)

On 3/10/2018 at 2:34 PM, Delano said:

...it has shown us images and characters we haven't seen and the world was thirsty...

Did Chinese immigrants tell this to you?

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cynique I was just wondering if any Chinese people  influenced your opinion. 

 

I will ask my Chinese friend what he thought of Black Panther.

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No, but rightly or wrongly i am influenced by the reputation of China's totalitarian government, when it comes to how influential it is on the collective conscious of its huge population. Are citizens of China really hungry for knowledge about Africa per se?  Or just action movies produced by the western world.   

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I don't know that they are hungry for Africa. But a few aren't that keen on staying in China. Students seem to find it oppressive. There are Chinese students who only hang with Chinese students. And others who want to mix.

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“Maybe the Chinese are still not used to a film full of black people,” wrote one reviewer on Douban (link in Chinese). The commenter said he had to pinch himself more than 10 times to stay awake during the movie because “Black Panther is black, all the major characters are black, a lot of scenes are black, the car-chasing scene is black—the blackness has really made me drowsy.”

 

Black Athletes Have Started Celebrating Their Victories With the “Wakanda Forever” Salute from Black Panther

 

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Wow that is really deep Del. 

 

This just reinforces my point.  I would not have known that the Wakanda Salute is a thing unless you told me. I'm sorry man you will not see me doing the Wakanda salute, mimicking something from a disney film.  This just empathizes how needy and sad we are....

 

But hey if the film bolsters pride in our African heritage that is great, but is seems to me we are elevating Wakanda which is just plain ludicrous to me. 

 

I would be willing to bet that if you ask anyone of those athletes who big upping Wakanda during their celebrations to name 5 Africans who lived before 1,400 they would not be able to to do it.  Do you think they could do it? Indeed, as a sanity check for that matter, can you?

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

1,400

before 1400?, Makeda Queen of Sheba,  Imhotep, Cleopatra, the alchemist, Memnon,  - I got 4 but I know the gods/goddess a little better..

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Hannibal Aesop Cleopatra Nefertiti Ramses Shaka Zulu. 

Troy it means nothing to you. However it is symbolic to a lot of Black people. They had free screenings in Africa.

 

Troy you like history and it is important to you. They article has a few professional athletes. I could be wrong but having a mental or emotional edge makes a difference on professional sport. 

 

It is inspirational to people. That's no more odd than music poetry books animals or anecdotes being inspirational. At least it is to me.

@Troy you don't need to do the Wakanda salute. However image and images are important. How many positive  Black lead characters can you name in film television or music? A lot of people loved the Huxtables. There are many reasons. They represented financial success yet they weren't totally white washed.

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@Delano free screenings in African -- that is called marketing, expanding an audience to make more money.  Facebook is covering the earth with free internet access, do you think they are going this out of pure largess or to make money?  

 

Del the Huxtables were based in reality, Wakanda is based upon a white boy's fantasy.  There is a big difference.  Stan Lee is revered; Bill Cosby is going to jail.

 

Cigarettes, porn, cocaine, deep fried oreos, and action flicks all make people feel good, and I'm afraid that is all they do-- at best.  

 

Look, white folks do this crap too.  They built a statue to perpetuate their mythology.  They overlooked Joe Frazier, an actual boxing champion, and built statue for Rocky?!  This comes from a desire to make up for a deficiency and does not come from a position of strength.

 

Again, our over-the-top assimilation of the world of wakanda comes from a position of weakness.

 

If we base our source of strength on some shit white people made up and own and they we pay them for, we are indeed in very bad shape...  but you know what this is par for the course why should I be surprised.

 

Good list by the way ;-)

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