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Delano

Atheism is inconsistent with the Scientific Method

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@DelVery interesting.  I found no points of disagreement with the guy who is the subject of the article.  I've always contended that not all of what we call "problems" have what we call "solutions", always accepted that certain things are beyond human comprehension. i also think Earth is miraculous and unique in terms of its place in the vast cosmos, always taken into consideration the fact that, inasmuch as  there is  predictability to the Universe, the idea of there being  a Supreme Intelligence is a reasonable possibility.  i  do  prefer the substance of science to the  superstition  of organized religion, but neither provides all the answers.  My compatibility with the spirituality of Pantheism and the technology of Quantum Physics makes me very receptive to being an Agnostic.  I have always been and continue to be filled with wonder about this thing called Life.

 

A rare event occurred in the heavens last night and, as is my custom, i ventured out into the chilly, damp darkness to check out the full super moon welcoming in the Spring Solstice.  After a few minutes of squinting i was rewarded with a brief view of this luminous orb peeking though the clouds. Awesome. 

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Now really.....

Does it take a White man to TELL us this before we are willing to believe it?

I mean, for decades and centuries Black people who didn't go to school could sit up in rocking chairs or even on logs and tell us about how they know God and what God has done for them in their lives from personal experience and how silly it is for someone to claim that God doesn't exist......and many of us don't take them seriously.
But all it takes is some White dude in glasses and a white lab coat or a title behind his name to come on and make a statmenet and now ALL OF A SUDDEN it has merit.
It has credit.


Ofcourse atheism isn't consistent with the scientific method because after your hypothesis you have to repeatedly experiment and observe the results in order to PROVE your position of non-existence.....and no one has been able to do this EVER.

The only somewhat "logical" conclusion someone who has experimented and yielded no results could come to would be AGNOSTICISM or the admission that you simply don't know.
But ATHEISM is a pretty firm declaration of non-existence and NO ONE has proven this.  ((probably because you can't "prove" a lie...lol))



I've maintained for years and I've even said on this site that most of the people in these universities who CLAIM to be atheist.....really are not.
Most of them not only believe actually do believe in Higher powers but pretend that they don't.
They are just saying it to DECEIVE their students and confuse them; especially students of color.

 

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11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Does it take a White man to TELL us this before we are willing to believe it?

Obviously it does, since no black scientist has come out and said it.   World famous, black Neil DeGrasse Tyson is totally invested in the infallibility of science.  The black clergy keep the faith, preferring to ignore science.  And, of course, not being an Atheist does not mean you are religious.  It means you maintain an open mind, as in Agnosticism.  

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On 3/21/2019 at 6:22 PM, Cynique said:

i  do  prefer the substance of science to the  superstition  of organized religion, but neither provides all the answers.

 

Of course someone who is not religious would say the religion does not provide all the answers.  Religious people strongly believe that religion provides all the answers. 😉

 

Religious people and Atheists both speak in absolutes they claim to know something to be true. Agnostics on the other hand don't have the balls to commit to a position Either you believe in the existence of a supreme being or you don't.  It seems pretty cut and dried to me. 

 

Atheism has as much to do with science as religion.  Both are a matter of faith because you can't "prove" either one to be correct.

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3 hours ago, Troy said:

Either you believe in the existence of a supreme being or you don't.  It seem pretty cut and dried to me. 

 

How is that cut and dry? 

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The point of the link is that, "Atheism Is Inconsistent with the Scientific Method, Prizewinning Physicist Says." Which is a statement of the obvious. 

 

"Aren't certain" is indistinguishable, in a practical sense, from "don't know" or "don't care." For whatever reason, agnostics are non committal and serve no purpose in a conversation about atheism or religion.  Anybody, especially one who is uninformed can say, "I don't know."

 

Atheists are certain -- despite no evidence to substantiate their certainty.  Religious people are the same way.  Both religion and atheism are inconsistent with the scientific method.  It is cut and dried.

 

Try this one on for size; The Scientific Method is Inconsistent with Spirituality. 

 

 

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As an agnostic, i do believe in something.    i believe that just because an answer as to whether there is a god is unknown, doesn't mean that there isn't an answer. 

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5 hours ago, Troy said:

The Scientific Method is Inconsistent with Spirituality

Issac Newton and Albert Einstein both mebtiin using science to see God. 

William Lily was an astrologer and he wrote Christian Astrology. 

Srinivasa Aiyangar Ramanujan 

In his uniquely self-developed mathematical research he not only rediscovered known theorems but also produced brilliant new work, prompting his mentor G. H. Hardy to compare his brilliance to that of Euler and Gauss. 

 

Sir, an equation has no meaning for me unless it expresses a thought of GOD.

Statement to a friend, quoted in Ramanujan, the Man and the Mathematician (1967) by Shiyali Ramamrita Ranganathan, p. 88

 

Paul Erdős has passed on to us Hardy's personal ratings of mathematicians. Suppose that we rate mathematicians on the basis of pure talent on a scale from 0 to 100, Hardy gave himself a score of 25, Littlewood 30, Hilbert 80 and Ramanujan 100

 

Neils Bohr used the Yin Yang symbol on his coat of arms. 

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5 hours ago, Troy said:

Both religion and atheism are inconsistent with the scientific method.  It is cut and dried.

Not to some of the most notable mathematician and Quantum Physicists. 

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8 hours ago, Cynique said:

i believe that just because an answer as to whether there is a god is unknown, doesn't mean that there isn't an answer. 

 

Yeah, like I said, this does not say very much. 

 

So what do you really believe? Do you believe there is an omnipotent being or spirit answering our prayers and orchestrating our every move based upon the depth of homage we pay?

 

6 hours ago, Delano said:

Issac Newton and Albert Einstein both mebtiin using science to see God. 

 

You misunderstood the their use of the word "God" Del.  Which God, for example, was Einstein referring to?  Was Einstein referring to the God the Jews workshop?

 

6 hours ago, Delano said:

Christian Astrology

 

You know a lot about Astrology, but not much about Christianity.

 

6 hours ago, Delano said:

Not to some of the most notable mathematician and Quantum Physicists. 

 

What do these guys have to do with the God worshiped by the all the evangelicals in the United States?

 

What God do you believe in @Delano or are you a fence sitting agnostic too?

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6 hours ago, Delano said:

rinivasa Aiyangar Ramanujan 

In his uniquely self-developed mathematical research he not only rediscovered known theorems but also produced brilliant new work, prompting his mentor G. H. Hardy to compare his brilliance to that of Euler and Gauss. 

 

Sir, an equation has no meaning for me unless it expresses a thought of GOD.

Statement to a friend, quoted in Ramanujan, the Man and the Mathematician (1967) by Shiyali Ramamrita Ranganathan, p. 88

You left out the most interesting reference by a preeminent Mathematician referring to God 

@Troy

Will answer later 

13 minutes ago, Troy said:

 

You know a lot about Astrology, but not much about Christianity

What do you know about William Lily? He wrote Christian Astrology. 

I will meditate on the meaning of God to my being. 

@Troy

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I think one of the biggest challenges of proving the existence of God isn't the proof itself, so much as being able to SHARE that proof with others.
In other words......

If I pray for miracles in my life and God or a some other divine Being presents Themselves before me and communicates with me and grants me those miracles....that IS proof!
It's more than just evidence, it's absolute proof!

However, if I'm talking to a friend or co-worker how do I prove TO THEM that this happened?


 

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23 hours ago, Troy said:

So what do you really believe? Do you believe there is an omnipotent being or spirit answering our prayers and orchestrating our every move based upon the depth of homage we pay?

i said i am an agnostic.  i have an open mind, which means i don't answer questions that you phrase.    I believe that the answer as to whether there is a god remains to be seen.   

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38 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

However, if I'm talking to a friend or co-worker how do I prove TO THEM that this happened?

 

You can't.  That is why, despite what you've asserted in your example, it is not proof.  It the information can't be shared it is not proof.

 

13 minutes ago, Cynique said:

I believe that the answer as to whether there is a god remains to be seen.   

 

What makes this any different than saying you don't believe in God?  Are you hedging, afraid you'd end up in hell?

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@TroyI have an open mind.  i said just because i don't know the answer to whether there is a god, doesn't mean that there isn't one.  i just don't know it because he hasn't show himself to me... yet.  

 

BTW, i'm plowing through the posts you provided.  i cant resist editing my comments. Some of them needed to be shaped up  i'd forgotten  how much Chris Hayden and i butted heads.  But our run-ins were rather funny.  

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On 3/26/2019 at 10:05 PM, Delano said:

If you prover God you have either killed religion or God 

 

What a thought! Okay, so who can prove God!? But I do believe that religion can be killed, for sure, but never the Creator/Higher Power of Intelligent Design.

 

On 3/26/2019 at 8:54 PM, Pioneer1 said:

I think one of the biggest challenges of proving the existence of God isn't the proof itself, so much as being able to SHARE that proof with others.
In other words......

If I pray for miracles in my life and God or a some other divine Being presents Themselves before me and communicates with me and grants me those miracles....that IS proof!
It's more than just evidence, it's absolute proof!

 

On 3/26/2019 at 9:36 PM, Troy said:

You can't.  That is why, despite what you've asserted in your example, it is not proof.  It the information can't be shared it is not proof.

 

@Troy, @Pioneer1 Brilliant!--in what Pioneer said, because, I also believe that no matter what an individual has experienced or shares to others, if a person doesn't want to believe then, it doesn't mean that 'the proof was not a factor'. I tell you, I can relate to this topic in more than one way, and that is why I inquired from @Delano about the meaninn in his other thread about 'esoteric'. Regarding 'the scientific method' well, I don't know how my questions would fit this topic though, but I can absolutely relate to what Pioneer wrote. 

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****Let me put it this way; I can speak of one of several experiences that occurred in my life years ago and I sensed that I needed to speak about it immediately, because 'it was explaned to me' that CONFIRMATION was one of the most important aspects:

 

This one experienced happened to me back in April of 1990; and I wrote it down and shared it before, so, I will only mentioned brief aspects of what I recall now. My husband was working a third shift/swing shift because we both agreed to help out the only other African American girl on his job who came to him to ask for his help. They were being sorely harrassed. She was in ther 3rd trimester, a college grad, Chemist, from a prestigious HBCU. And the company also hired four European women a year afterwards and gave them better hours and, promoted the pregnant woman and gave her a permanent first shift position, with an office, when she went into ther 3rd trimester of pregnancy, which was at the same time of the Black girl. So, the Black girl asked my husband to switch her 3rd shift, so she could work 1st shift. So, I agreed. But then, the company got mad at my husband and tried to overwork him. It was a horrible experience. I hate to even think about it again. At the same time, my husband and I was being absolutely oppressed by our parents. My mother told me to go back to work right after I had a difficult pregnancy after three (3) weeks, and so I did and I started bleeding and became very ill. My baby was 10 pounds 3 ounces and the anesthesia did not work. I almost died on the table, but I had a top of the run doctor!!! He was old and said that never happened to him before. He came by after church to see me, he was so shocked. I named by second baby after him. My second baby was also a big baby, 8 pounds 13 ounces and a difficult birth. My doctor told me that I would die if I did not stop working. So, ... we moved to a small place...my mother did not like it and badgered my husband...So here goes...

 

One morning, my husband stumbled into the door after working a 12 hour back shift on a 4 day cycle and sat down on the bed. I was sitting up at the table and suddenly, I was communicated to. It was like a definite communication that occurred in a FLASH-like a camera flash bulb. It happened in one second. I couldn't believe it. But, I immediately turned to my husband and said, OMG! I was just told that in exactly one week from today, on FRIDAY, you will be FIRED!!! And I was told that we would be evicted. I was told to go immediately to MR. BOB, and ask him for refuge at his community because, [and I am quoting all of my statements], "HE'S ONE OF MINE". My husband, looked at me with frustration as if to say, 'Here she goes again' and then he rolled his eyes, laid back on the bed and fell asleep. But, I jumped up immediately, and decided to go by myself. So, I got in the car and drove about 15 minutes to the community where Mr. Bob was the landlord, a older White man. He was very tall, and bald, and when he smiled, his eyes sparkled and, and he was very friendly. He had served in the army and had a lot of stories to tell us and we had lived in this community about a year prior. I would love to sit in the office with him. So, I walked into the office where he was standing that friday and asked him if I could stay here next week if an emergency might come up, and well, he adored me. He immediately said, yes, absolutely, if the city social services gives you a voucher you are more than welcome... Then I left the parking lot and went to social services and waited for about 30 minutes and then filled out a form and etc. and the worker was so very rude; a Black woman. Then, I drove back home and my husband was still fast asleep.... It took me about two and a half hours. ...

 

... That next Friday, my husband stumbled in the door and said, guess what!? I was LET GO. He had never been written up. He worked that job for 5 years. He was a Chemist. He graduated from a top technological university. Out of the BLUE, they fired my husband. We had never missed a rent payment!!! We stayed in this community for about a year and a half. But, minutes later, there was a knock on our door on that very friday. Our landlord said that we had to go and she said it was because of our car being broke down in the parking lot. It was an eye sore and after a week of not taking it off the block, we had to go.... So, I already had the voucher and so, we got our friends and my father-in-law, to move us into Mr. Bobs community. ...

 

... Five (5) years later, my aunt, one of my mother's older sister, told us that my mother had called my husbands job and slandered him... before Mr. Bob passed away, he told us that my mother had came to him and slandered my husband and he 'blew her out' and sent her away... Mr. Bob told me that my mother slandered us to the other landlord, a White woman, and that was why she evicted us... This landord, in fact, called Mr. Bob and told us, that on that very day after I had visited him to ask him if I could come, that landlord actually came to visit him too!!! Mr. Bob told me that she came with some 'scraggly looking man' [lol] and told him that I might be coming back to him... He told me that he 'lit her up!' LOL and sent her and her boy away. ... My mother was a social worker and I am her only daughter of three that has children from her first husband, and she hated me,... hated me... hated me... she hated my father.... I look like my father... She applied for Grandmother Visitation rights... the judge, a black church woman, who had never been married and never had children, worked in the FAMILY JUVENILE COURT, gave her rights to have UNSUPERVISED VISITATION of my sons every over saturday for four (4) hours... I said no way... LOL... and trouble continued... my sons were 5 and 7, and remember everything...

 

Okay, so that is one of several stories that I have, and so, my husband did not believe me the week before, he was FIRED from his job... so, even though, he is a witness, and so is the social service department, application dated that day THAT I HAD THAT EXPEREIENCE!!!-- It is like @Pioneer1 said; it is based on the individual's person experience with 'God' and but, I also say, no matter what, some people will believe, but others will always be DOUBTING THOMASES... even if things like this happens to them. Whatever...

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If you prove God exists, then faith is obsolete in which case religion ceases to exists. God is unknowable except by God's grace. So if you can know that which  is unknowable you are on parity. Since knowledge is power. 

Knowledge is our pecking  order. Since knowledge equals power 

 

@Chevdove

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Chev

Lol....are you as long-winded in real life as you are on the internet?

I can just see your husband coming in from a long day at work trying to get some rest while you're sitting up in bed for 2 hours telling him about  something that happened earlier that he's too tired to even care about but loves you too much to tell you so, LOL.

But what you described is a great example of "women's intuition".
Premonitions females usually get about other family members.
I've seen too many examples of this to ever dismiss it.


 

 

 


Delano

Once you prove God exists that's STILL not the end; because now you have to prove God's relevance to your life and whether or not miracles will be performed when you need them.

Now that you know God exists, will God:

-cure your illness?
-get you out of poverty?
-get you out of jail?
-bring a good mate into your life?

There are still plenty of things to exercise your hope and faith with once you DO have confirmation of the existence of God.

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@Chevdove that was both an interesting and sad story. @Pioneer1's explanation is one of several alternatives to the one you chose and because there are alternative explainations it is not "proof" of any of them including the existence of God.

 

When I hear stories like this that are attributed to God I wonder wouldn't it have easier for your family if God simply prevented your husband from being sacked on the first place? Typically the response is God works in mysterious ways, or the experience taught a lesson, or any other story to justify the belief.

 

@Cynique yeah i wonder what happened to ole Chris.

 

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Troy  @Troy

Do you believe there is proof that "superior" beings who are intelligent, self-sustaining, and more powerful than humans actually in existence?

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2 hours ago, Troy said:

When I hear stories like this that are attributed to God I wonder wouldn't it have easier for your family if God simply prevented your husband from being sacked on the first place? Typically the response is God works in mysterious ways, or the experience taught a lesson, or any other story to justify the belief.

 

@Troy consistent with the belief, those messages are not from G-D , those whispers are from THE WATCHERS who were explicitly told not to intervene in human affairs. They can warn or in this case "report".   What humans choose to do with that information is based on their own understanding and  belief system.   see: daniel, mary. and host of others who received visits and messages
 

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16 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Once you prove God exists that's STILL not the end; because now you have to prove God's relevance to your life and whether or not miracles will be performed when you need them.

Now that you know God exists, will God:

-cure your illness?
-get you out of poverty?
-get you out of jail?
-bring a good mate into your life?

Substitute God for Astrology  and get back to me on May 18, 2019.

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21 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

those whispers are from THE WATCHERS

 

Sure that is another possibility which also can't be proven.  Maybe it is not that "the watchers" arent allowed to intervene, perhaps they can't.

 

I've been in bad situations where the resolution, implausibly, worked out in my favor. So much so I felt like it could not be sheer coincidence. I thought of the influencer as a guardian angel, which sounds a bit like your watcher.

 

 

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On 3/29/2019 at 1:20 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Lol....are you as long-winded in real life as you are on the internet?

 

@Pioneer1 Geez! I'm sorry! But yes, I am long winded! LOL! 

 

On 3/29/2019 at 1:20 AM, Pioneer1 said:

I can just see your husband coming in from a long day at work trying to get some rest while you're sitting up in bed for 2 hours telling him about  something that happened earlier that he's too tired to even care about but loves you too much to tell you so, LOL.

 

LOL! Yes and no. NO, I don't catch him when he comes in the door and hold him up, but yes, sometimes, I do bore him! LOL.

 

On 3/29/2019 at 1:20 AM, Pioneer1 said:

But what you described is a great example of "women's intuition".
Premonitions females usually get about other family members.
I've seen too many examples of this to ever dismiss it.

 

Oh, but no, I am not the kind of person who has 'intuition'. I had absolutely NO INTUIION that someone, anyone, called my husband's job, until about 5 years later, it was told to me!

I had absolutely NO INTUITION, that the landlord would get in her car and drive over to the other landlord and tell him, I was coming. She obviously had intuition and knew what I was going to do--But at at that time, I had no intentions to leave where i was at, until I was given notice and evicted.

I had no idea that my mother drove over to confront the landlord, which was a 40 minute drive for her, until he chose out of the goodness of his heart to tell me that she did that.

I don't read people very well, but I usually take people on what they present. I'm a person that tries not to be judgemental and I try to take people on what ever it is they say.

On 3/28/2019 at 9:15 PM, Delano said:

If you prove God exists, then faith is obsolete in which case religion ceases to exists. God is unknowable except by God's grace. So if you can know that which  is unknowable you are on parity. Since knowledge is power. 

Knowledge is our pecking  order. Since knowledge equals power 

 

 

 

WOW! Love it! 

On 3/29/2019 at 8:03 AM, Troy said:

@Chevdove that was both an interesting and sad story. @Pioneer1's explanation is one of several alternatives to the one you chose and because there are alternative explainations it is not "proof" of any of them including the existence of God.

 

 

@Troy Yes! Thank you! This I believe.

On 3/29/2019 at 8:03 AM, Troy said:

When I hear stories like this that are attributed to God I wonder wouldn't it have easier for your family if God simply prevented your husband from being sacked on the first place? Typically the response is God works in mysterious ways, or the experience taught a lesson, or any other story to justify the belief.

 

Absolutely! And, @Troy This is the trying part for me always. I anguish over why would He allow me to suffer in this way--what is the purpose, but then I do get the answer, however, I wish I wouldn't have to go through this. 

Based on my belief and understanding, I know that the Creator is PROVING certain people and allowing certain choices and behaviors to manifest fully, so as to reveal inner intent and separate 'the wheat from the tares' -- if in fact, the kind of behavior is detrimental against the human world. He 'by-passes' behaviors though, no matter how bad as long as the person, can get improve. But if people harm children and innocence; that is the kind of manifested behavior that cannot be overhauled.

I know that He is looking at the government initially too, and if that court system, in America, allows someone to seize children 'steal' from their mothers and enslave, then that government will eventually be doomed, imo--

My mother could not have taken my children from me, but the government had this power. They gave her visitation rights against my will, and I felt like a slave...thankfully, the media got involded.

 

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22 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

What humans choose to do with that information is based on their own understanding and  belief system. 

 

@Mel Hopkins Yes, I like this.

22 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

daniel, mary. and host of others who received visits and messages
 

 

When I think about my experiences, I do think back to these accounts!

 

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

Maybe it is not that "the watchers" arent allowed to intervene, perhaps they can't.

@Troy 

Good point - I don't think I have direct knowledge  of the abilities or  limits of the Watchers.   I've read what was allegedly Enoch's  account of what he said he experienced,  Enoch wrote G-D  punished the Watchers who intervened in human affairs. So the rest didn't. According to the text they couldn't teach Humans either - just watch and report.  

'

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