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Troy

What if I Married a White Woman?

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During a conversation with an old buddy yesterday. My friend¬†said that he did not understand all these so called Black activists who marry white people. He also said he was surprised I had not married a white woman ūüė≤

 

We go back 40 years, so I was not phased by the dig, but it got me thinking...

 

Would the founder of the largest website dedicated to Black books, a diehard advocate for black owned businesses, be a hypocrite for marrying a white woman?

 

Would your impression of me change? Would my perceived support of the Black community be diminished?

 

Is Clarence Thomas even more reviled by Black people because he is swirling, dissing a sister (Anita Hill) on one hand and marrying the white woman on the other?

 

Maya Angelou married two white men. Harry Bellefonte and Amiri Baraka married white women. None of them lost their street cred...

 

If you marry a white woman and are also Republican you'll certainly have your Black card revoked (actually being a Republican is sufficient) as Candace Owen, who married a white man, can illustrate.

 

No white woman (save one in college 40 years ago) has ever expressed an interest in me. After being married most of my adult life, I'm now single. Ultimately, I'd like find a mate, but I have not only consudered Black women as a partner. 

 

I recognize that these are thoughts are racist. I guess I'm just a product of my environment...

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Troy


Not sure if you're just trying to start a conversation or actually looking for advice so I'll address it from BOTH angles...........



If you're seriously considering MARRIAGE,  I think overall it would probably be a huge mistake for a number of reasons, among which:

 

Unless you knew her for a long time, meaning BEFORE you became successful and established your own business, how do you know she's not with you for your wealth (or potential wealth) instead of true love and won't later on divorce you and snatch half of it?

Unless she was with you when you were still struggling uptown trying to "come up"...you really don't know.

This is the mistake too many wealthy AfroAmerican men have made in the past and even continue to make.
They wait until AFTER they get rich and allow some skeezer to hook up with them and grab their money.
 

My advice is if you have a Caucasian woman that love and you THINK she loves you, just bang her and treat her properly and MAYBE live with her if you can trust her....but as far as actually getting MARRIED and it's legal ramifications, hell no.
Stay away from that.
 


Now that would be my advice for a MAN, but when it comes to WOMEN I have a DOUBLE STANDARD.
I discourage ALL sexual relationships between African women and Caucasian men....outside of prostitution in certain cases.



Now to address it from just a CONVERSATIONAL angle...............

 

 

 

My friend said that he did not understand all these so called Black activists who marry white people.

 

From what I've observed there are 2 main reasons for this:

 

1.Many Caucasians SEEK OUT these AfroAmerican leaders as a tactical move to get intimate with them in order to gather information from them and their organizations in order to manipulate it or neutralize it.
They aren't really in love, they are just acting as spies or secret agents for White Supremacy in general.

2. But also interestingly enough, I've found that most Caucasian women genuinely find intelligent revolutionary minded African men EXTREMELY ATTRACTIVE.

They go crazy and fall for AfroAmerican "activist" type men in ways that even many AfroAmerican women who are "conscious" don't.  And they OPENLY show how attracted and overwhelmed they are with these men in ways that many of our sisters would be embarassed to allow themselves to be.

I've complained about it before but you have quite a few AfroAmerican WOMEN who frequent this site from time to time to promote their books and ask you questions or whatever but they don't hang around or post much.  They don't really engage in conversation too much, especially if you're saying something they don't like.   ith the exception of Chevdove and Cynique...many AfroAmerican women simply don't find it interesting to hold long political or social discussions with the average AfroAmerican man online. 
But man...if this site was as well known to CAUCASIAN WOMEN...lol.
If they knew you, I, or any other AfroAmerican man capable of holding a half-way intelligent conversation with them were on here, they would BREAK the damn server from hanging out here so much!
I'm telling you the truth based on what I know.

If you think I post on here a lot, let just one or two of the right White women find out about an open message board where they could freely interact with men of color outside of observervation of White men.  You'd be longing on here at 3am and STILL find Becky and Jenny on the site in that little "who's on line" column WAITING for some convo....lol.

Even if you INSULTED them and disagreed with everything they said many of them would STILL frequent the joint because it's not an intellectual calling but an instinctive attraction.

I'm not lying, this strong attraction is VERY real and I've observed it as well as experienced it from many Caucasian women.
For whatever reason, many of them are just attracted to AfroAmerican men who are "woke" or have that rebel spirit in them. so it's not so much that these men seek them but THEY seek out those brothers!

And you KNOW how much men love to get our egos stroked, so having a woman of ANY race who almost "worships" them is considered a high reward for them despite their alleged "wokeness" and claims to be down for the cause.

This is one of the reasons why over the years I've told many AfroAmerican women to "give in" a little and learn how to stoke a man's ego or you'll lose him to a woman who can and will!

 

 

 

Would the founder of the largest website dedicated to Black books, a diehard advocate for black owned businesses, be a hypocrite for marrying a white woman?

 

No.
Because I've never heard you say you WOULDN'T do it or even condemn it.
If you had, THAT would make you a hypocrite.
But if your actions are in line with your words then hey...((shrugs shoulders))

But I would STILL see it as poor judgement on your part to actually MARRY her.

 

 


Would your impression of me change? Would my perceived support of the Black community be diminished?

 

For me, no.
But I speak for myself.

 

 

 

Is Clarence Thomas even more reviled by Black people because he is swirling, dissing a sister (Anita Hill) on one hand and marrying the white woman on the other?

 

For the record, I don't revile Clarence "Uncle Tom" Thomas, I just don't have a lot of respect for him because of his ineffectiveness in one of the highest positions of the land.

His marrying a White woman has nothing to do with it although I think it shows more poor judgement.

 

 

 

 

If you marry a white woman and are also Republican you'll certainly have your Black card revoked (actually being a Republican is sufficient) as Candace Owen, who married a white man, can illustrate.

 

Candace is pretty, intelligent, feminine, and professional....which is why I REALLY don't like the fact that she married a Caucasian man.
So for me as a man, JEALOUSY is a factor. 
I think she should be in the arms of an equally intelligent and successful AfroAmerican man or atleast another African man if she can't find on here.
 

I've said before that I don't like when very attractive professional AfroAmerican women get snatched up by Caucasian men because it takes them out of the pool and leaves the community with a higher percentage of "hood rats".
This is one of the reasons I have a DOUBLE STANDARD when it comes to AfroAmerican men vs AfroAmerican women dating and marrying outside of our ethnic group.


But I guess at the end of the day most individuals will do what they think is best for THEM regardless of what is best for their community.

 

 

No white woman (save one in college 40 years ago) has ever expressed an interest in me.

 

Lol....nigga pleaze.
I find that VERY hard to believe.
 

Perhaps you were just focused on other matters and not paying attention but there is no way you could be a relatively normal (I consider you above normal....intellectually) man in this society talking about "no white woman except one" has ever expressed interest in you.

 

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Thanks for the advice.

 

Yes I appreciate the legal aspects of marrying anyone.

 

Of course you know I don't by into any of that spy stuff ... SMH ūüėČ

 

Nope, unless I missed it no white woman has stepped to me in the last 40 years. Actually there was one other, but I was married and I made like I did not know what the woman was trying to do, for she¬†knew I was married ūüėě

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On 7/24/2020 at 8:48 AM, Troy said:

During a conversation with an old buddy yesterday. My friend said that he did not understand all these so called Black activists who marry white people.

 

 

YES I think that is strange too. However, some of the Black activist MEN have been extremely beneficial in the plight of dealing with Black oppression via White Supremacist Movements. I especially, highly, esteem and appreciate the late Ivan Van Sertima's contribution and yet, I believe that he married a White woman. 

 

I don't think Alfre Woodard would be viewed as a Black Activist, however, based on some of the films that she was featured in such as about the life of the late Nelson Mandela, I appreciate her contribution to the cause. She's one of my favorite actresses and I believe that she is married to a White man.

 

On 7/24/2020 at 8:48 AM, Troy said:

it got me thinking...

 

Would the founder of the largest website dedicated to Black books, a diehard advocate for black owned businesses, be a hypocrite for marrying a white woman?

 

Well, ECONOMICALLY and eventually, would that have any affect on the welfare of Black communities and/or Black businesses? Would White Supremacist Movements exploit your Black business and put you into a position unknowingly to become dependent on White economy to continue operating as an independent Black business? If this would not happen, then I would say, marrying a White woman would not be a problem at all. And also, this White dominated economy IMO would not be able to control Black free thought due to other Black people who do make bonds with each other and that is the key.

 

As long as there are a significant presence of Black relationships in this world, then for others who do marrying White people, it would not be a negative affect at all to the Black world. 

 

On 7/24/2020 at 8:48 AM, Troy said:

but I have not only consudered Black women as a partner. 

 

I recognize that these are thoughts are racist. I guess I'm just a product of my environment...

 

WOW @Troy Those are not racist thoughts. But yes, we are all a product of our environment. It normal, its human to think about other humans and the kind of relationships that could occur.

 

IMO though, it's also good to consider other issues too and to not be blind when considering this subject. When we engage in relationships with other people, we are also going to have to deal with issues such as nationality, cultural aspects, etc. 

 

On 7/24/2020 at 9:37 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Now that would be my advice for a MAN, but when it comes to WOMEN I have a DOUBLE STANDARD.
I discourage ALL sexual relationships between African women and Caucasian men

 

LOL. Now that is a double standard! WOW @Pioneer1

That's crazy.

 

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On 7/25/2020 at 12:44 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Have you ever been to Europe or Canada?

 

Sure, why? I have zero interest in moving to either place. 

 

13 hours ago, Delano said:

If it's working it's working.

 

Well at some point I would like a life partner and if I'm only considering Black women am I unnecessarily limiting myself...

 

2 hours ago, Chevdove said:

the late Ivan Van Sertima's contribution and yet, I believe that he married a White woman. 

 

I did not know that.

 

2 hours ago, Chevdove said:

WOW @Troy Those are not racist thoughts.

 

Sure the thoughs are racist in nature. They are mildly racist not like those of the Klan and of no consequence to anyone else, but racist nevertheless.

 

2 hours ago, Chevdove said:
On 7/24/2020 at 9:37 AM, Pioneer1 said:

I discourage ALL sexual relationships between African women and Caucasian men

 

LOL. Now that is a double standard! WOW @Pioneer1

That's crazy.

 

Sure Pioneer's sentiment is a racist double standard, but Black men of a certain generation "get it."  If you think about it @Chevdove you'll probably figure out why.

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Troy

 


Sure, why? I have zero interest in moving to either place. 

 

I didn't ask to suggest that you move there.
Having been to Europe and Canada I noticed that many of the women were much more open and overt in expressing their attraction to African men.
 

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There us defintely no shortage of interracial couples in my neck of the woods. In fact, if you see a black person in a couple the likelihood of their partner being Black is just as likely as being white. 

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On 7/28/2020 at 6:00 AM, Troy said:

Sure the thoughs are racist in nature. They are mildly racist not like those of the Klan and of no consequence to anyone else, but racist nevertheless.

 

No, I don't get that and perhaps because I am not defining the term Racist as others. When I think of 'a racist' I think of a person that acts out of hate and rage.

 

On 7/28/2020 at 6:00 AM, Troy said:

Sure Pioneer's sentiment is a racist double standard, but Black men of a certain generation "get it."  If you think about it @Chevdove you'll probably figure out why.

 

Well, I haven't figured it out yet. 

 

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49 minutes ago, Chevdove said:

When I think of 'a racist' I think of a person that acts out of hate and rage.

 

That is just one manifestation of racism. Prejudice is another. Not hiring someone for a job, not allowing them to move into a neighborhood, or not being willing to get into a relationship with one, based solely on race are a few.

 

@Chevdove white men collectively are the most powerful people on Earth and arguably the most racist. They have a legacy of brutalizing Black people and for a couple hundred years have raped Black women with total impunity. So to see sisters run into the arms of white men is, especially the most desirable one, is kinda hard to embrace wholeheartedly. Do you get it now?

 

Now I fully appreciate that younger cats may not feel this way, because they are too far removed. I also appreciate some sisters and white men may truly be color blind, but in America this seems unlikely to me.

 

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6 hours ago, Troy said:

That is just one manifestation of racism. Prejudice is another. Not hiring someone for a job, not allowing them to move into a neighborhood, or not being willing to get into a relationship with one, based solely on race are a few.

 

So would it be fair to say that some people don't have hate who are racist?

some racist people have racist viewpoints but don't operate out of hate?

I can sort of accept that point of view. I can see where some people may be prejudice but not act out of hate.

But when someone is not hired because of his 'race' then, I feel that is hate.

If someone is not allowed to move into a neighborhood because of his 'race', I feel that is hate.

And if someone is attacked because he or she dates another person of another 'race' then, I feel that is hate. 

 

6 hours ago, Troy said:

I also appreciate some sisters and white men may truly be color blind, but in America this seems unlikely to me.

 

Yes, I feel that in America, some people try to ignore racial issues but it is difficult to do that.

 

6 hours ago, Troy said:

They have a legacy of brutalizing Black people and for a couple hundred years have raped Black women with total impunity. So to see sisters run into the arms of white men is, especially the most desirable one, is kinda hard to embrace wholeheartedly. Do you get it now?

 

Yes, I can see where Black men can be against this type of relationship, but I still don't understand the double standard aspect though. 

I feel, as a Black woman, that Black men have been exploited too, in 'inter-racial relationships', but I don't shun it today, nonetheless because of the positive aspect of it.

Even in the slavery times, there are love stories of White men and Black women. 

Normal people will always be attracted to each other no matter the race, imo, but to be colorblind and ignore the negative aspect, no, I don't think that is good either.

 

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8 hours ago, Chevdove said:

So would it be fair to say that some people don't have hate who are racist?

 

Absolutely.

 

8 hours ago, Chevdove said:

But when someone is not hired because of his 'race' then, I feel that is hate.

 

It could be but people often want  to be around people like themselves.  This attitude is short slighted because many brilliant people are overlooked.  

 

8 hours ago, Chevdove said:

If someone is not allowed to move into a neighborhood because of his 'race', I feel that is hate.

 

Maybe. Probably.  Would you prefer to like with people who share your culture and background or people who did not share you language, religion, or any aspect of your culture?  Does that mean that you "hate" those people?

 

Does it mean that I hate white women because I balk at the prospect of marrying one?

 

8 hours ago, Chevdove said:

Yes, I feel that in America, some people try to ignore racial issues but it is difficult to do that.

 

I agree, but it is so often shoved in you face like when a white police officer murders an unarmed Black man for some alleged petty crime.  @daniellegfny do these Brothers "chose" to be killed?

 

8 hours ago, Chevdove said:

I still don't understand the double standard aspect though.

 

Maybe because you think women are just men without penises and see the differences as a double standard. Men and women, in general, think differently. I know into today's world men and women are "equal," but we are indeed different.  Wouldn't you agree?

 

 

 

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On 7/30/2020 at 12:23 AM, Troy said:

Maybe because you think women are just men without penises and see the differences as a double standard.

 

Oh no, I do not see women as being the same as men.

 

On 7/30/2020 at 12:23 AM, Troy said:

Men and women, in general, think differently.

 

Yes, I do agree.

 

On 7/30/2020 at 12:23 AM, Troy said:

but we are indeed different.  Wouldn't you agree?

 

Oh yes, I do agree. However, when it comes to inter-racial relationships, I do not see a difference in White men loving Black African women or Black men loving White women, meaning normal! NORMAL, what is normal; I believe that racism cannot be ignored so then when men and women engage into inter-racial relationships with this understanding then they are acting responsibly but when they engage out of 'a spirit of racial superiority' then they are submitting to racial superiority. 

 

Too many times I hear Black men and Black women want to engage in relationships with White people because of something they hate about being Black and that is not normal. That kind of 'White Supremacist' is operating out of racial hatred. It is difficult, I believe though, to NOT blame the whole gender for experiencing Black-on-Black oppression, but I feel that we as Black people need to try to look beyond 'self' at times and look for the positives and then if you decide to engage in inter-racial relationships, it won't be out of 'race hatred'--Black Self Hatred. That kind of motivation will lead to a bad relationship for sure. 

 

 

 

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On 7/24/2020 at 8:48 AM, Troy said:

Is Clarence Thomas even more reviled by Black people because he is swirling, dissing a sister (Anita Hill) on one hand and marrying the white woman on the other?

@Troy NOPE!  Clarence Thomas is hateful period.  We just hate his ass the same way we hate Kavanaugh.

Aside:  Candace is a sellout period.  I doubt she believes anything she says. She's a good looking tool and the sexist misogynists GOP appreciate good looking women period - and if they can use them to achieve a goal - they will.  And they reward/pay folks well. Especially good looking smart black women. I'm sure that's true of all politicians but they don't make it a secret.

If you married a white woman - I already know she'd be down for the cause.   She'd be fit, fierce and fine - because you can't be slipping when you married outside your ethnic group. Since you are one of the good ones - you can't settle for less.  Some of us black women have a saying - "We' glad you took him. hon'.  Maybe his genes will have a chance"  - Kinda like what we said about Jay Z and Beyonce when it came to the looks department.  [ok that's all just awful - charge it to this sore throat I'm dealing with this morning] 

But I digress. 

 

That's how it works when you marry a compatible partner no matter what skin they're in. If you met my ex - you'd see how much a like we are.  It's how we ended up raising successful daughters - we share similar perspectives on life.   I'm also reminded of the guy from Power -Omari Hardwick (?) his wife is anglo and I swear she is more militant than I could ever be. Maybe she's more militant because she is anglo and therefore gets a pass - but still she's a roughneck when it comes to championing the Black cause and Black lives matter.    I don't  find anything you wrote as racist -because while you can be bigoted/prejudice  you need to hold the power to be racist. 

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Interesting responses.  I admit I have to stop myself sometimes from making superficial judgments.  It doesn't take long for me to remember skin color is not a reliable indication of one's allegiance to a culture.  A Black woman in a MAGA hat (I've seen it!) may not likely have more in common with me than, say, a Latinx or Asian woman raised outside of the USA.

 

I don't mind taking pleasure in seeing an impressive Black couple like Barrack and Michelle.  But I also recognize my reaction is based on appreciating the odds they must overcome to find on another.  Being a Black male in some environments sometimes feels like being an endangered panda or something.  The odds of finding a similar mate in the wild is daunting!   The search starts with compromises.  You may both be in complimentary professions  and share hobbies, but you live in different cities and have a socially questionable age gap.  That sort of thing.

 

I've trained myself to not make assumptions.  I know how hard it is out there.  Some have to work with what they have,  even making concessions on what they thought their partner's skin color would be.  I've never found a wife, so I'm not the best to give advice.  This is just my point-of-view at this moment.

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5 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

We just hate his ass the same way we hate Kavanaugh.

 

ROFL! True!

 

5 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Candace is a sellout period.  I doubt she believes anything she says

 

You know, I think you're right! LOL!

5 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

charge it to this sore throat I'm dealing with this morning] 

 

Okay, I dying of laughter here! @Mel Hopkins

 

 

2 hours ago, Jeffrey said:

...I've trained myself to not make assumptions

 

Yes, me too.

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Guest FAS

All this talk of black sell-outs and entertainment people :huh: as black "activists" reminds me of a quote by Frederick Douglas who married a white woman after his black wife died (to the consternation of his daughters). He made the comment about himself and his co-founder of the North Star newspaper -- his cofounder, btw, who is almost NEVER mentioned by Douglass biographers, nor even in textbooks) -- Martin Delaney. Delaney was not only a newspaperman, but author of The Condition, Elevation, Emigration, and Destiny of the Colored People of the United States. He was also the first black officer in U.S. history. When Frederick Douglass went to Lincoln at the outbreak of the Civil War and suggested black troops be used, Lincoln threw him out of his office. Later, when Martin Delaney went to see Lincoln with pretty much the same proposal. Lincoln was so impressed by the commanding, unapologetic Delaney ("I didn't come to petition you a favor, Mr. President; I came to tell you what I can do for YOU") that less than 3 weeks later, Martin Delaney was commissioned the first black field officer (Major) in U.S. history.

 

The black activist that married a white woman over the wailing objections, imprecations and condemnation of his daughters wrote about the black activist, his friend and former business partner who married a woman who looked like Douglass' daughters:

 

"When I wake up in the morning, I thank God for making me a man. When Martin wakes up in the morning, he thanks God for making him a BLACK man."

 

Hypocrite, street cred, etc. Depends, I guess, on whether you're an activist or a leader of activists. MHO

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This software does not allow you to "like" the comments posted by guests, but i like FAS's comment.

 

I'll add The Condition, Elevation, Emigration, and Destiny of the Colored People of the United States if anyone is still printing it.

 

21 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

I don't  find anything you wrote as racist -because while you can be bigoted/prejudice  you need to hold the power to be racist. 

 

I've heard many people say power is the reason Black people can not be racist. I never brought into that concept. The power component just describes the degree that one may exert their racism, and this is usually a function of the number of people involved.

 

A single, poor, racist Black man can go into a white church, shoot it up and kill everybody in it. He has the power to take lives. A racist piece of poor white trash did just that. His name is Dylan.

 

It is hard for me to describe Candice as a sellout, because she strikes me as sincere -- misguided to be sure -- but saying what she truly believes. 

 

I do not find Candice particularly attractive or intelligent, because of the words that come out her mouth, but she is articulate as hell.

 

 

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21 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

She'd be fit, fierce and fine

 

And you know this! Add Intelligence, financial security, and the capacity to love as the most important requirements to me. Skin color is (or should be) incidental. 

 

Now what I'm expressing is my own apprehension at considering a woman on the pinker end of the skin color spectrum. Again this is, by definition, racist. I'll call it "demiracist," because I don't have the power to pass legislation to prevent all Black people from marrying white people, nor do I have the desire to do it, because that would be really racist, KKK racist -- which i am definitely not!

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You may be surprised to hear this from me, but I don't believe being a "racist" has anything to do with power or the lack there of.  
I think it is all centered around your beliefs.  
Which means I do believe Africans, Asians, and Native Americans CAN be racist.
However we must differentiate between racism and COUNTER-racism.

For example......
When I say that I have an automatic distrust of Caucasians UNTIL one as an individual proves to me that they can be and are trustworthy, that is not racism but that is COUNTER-racism.

Just like when a woman automatically distrusts  all men after having been repeatedly violated and abused by men as a child UNTIL they show themselves to be trustworthy,  she's not being sexist but COUNTER-sexist.

 

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On 8/1/2020 at 10:30 PM, Troy said:

 

I do not find Candice particularly attractive or intelligent, because of the words that come out her mouth, but she is articulate as hell.

@Troy have you been body snatched

On 8/1/2020 at 11:11 PM, Troy said:

And you know this! Add Intelligence, financial security, and the capacity to love as the most important requirements to me. Skin color is (or should be) incidental

What you feel is more important than what other people think about your choices.

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1 hour ago, Delano said:

Troy have you been body snatched

 

Why? Because I borderline find Candice repulsive. 

 

1 hour ago, Delano said:

What you feel is more important than what other people think about your choices.

 

Of course that is true. However, the initial motivation behind question was to find out from others how I, the founder of this site, would be perceived if I married a white woman. Would i be condidered a sellout or hypocrite who forsaked Black women. Or just someone who married someone he loved and thought he'd be happy with.

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