The Number of Black Books Published in 2022 is the Lowest in Two Decades

[Troy]

The total number of books on AALBC published in 2022 was the lowest it has been since 2005! The difference is not a few book books but hundreds of books!

 

Now I don't have every Black book published on AALBC -- but my information is certainly indicative of the books published by the major publishers and the larger independents. I also capture more Black indie books than any other independent online store.   This data tells me substantially fewer Black books were published in 2022 than in the past two decades!

 

There were 35% fewer books published in 2022 than in 2021 and almost 50% fewer than the peak published in 2015, as reflected on the AALBC website.

 

We don't have news sources to notice, care about, or report on the number of books written by Black writers declining so drastically. I think it is newsworthy to understand why this is happening

 

Another book professional told me this is a direct result of the supply chain issues caused by the pandemic.  That may be true, but I would have thought that might cause more books to be published in 2022 as a result of books being delayed from 2020 and 2021.  I would have also expected a substantive decrease in 2021, which I did not observe.  Also, I see no indication that the number of books printed overall has declined, the supply chain explanation does not wash with me.

 

One thing I have noticed is that many Black indie authors publish exclusively with Amazon and while I can capture these books on AALBC, it is much more unlikely that I will add them to my store, as I can not sell them directly,* because they are not in normal distribution channels.  While this may impact the number of books in the AALBC store, the impact would not be significant as the vast majority of books in the AALBC store are not Amazon-exclusive.

 

There has also been an increased trend toward eBook-only books.  I've seen this in the urban fiction genre in particular, but this is not a new trend and does not explain the significant drop in 2022 books. 

 

It is possible that I'm completely wrong, and there has not been a significant drop in the number of Black books published in 2022.  If this is the case, I can say with 100% certainty that there has been an alarming drop in the amount and promotion and marketing behind Black books because I'm not seeing them.  Maybe is it because I'm not on TicTok  

 

What do you think? Do you have evidence to support or refute a substantial decrease in the number of Black books.

 

* Because so many authors publish exclusively with Amazon I have recently started sending readers to Amazon's site for books that are only available to Amazon because promoting the writer is more important than their narrow-minded decision to publish with Amazon exclusively.  This also allows me to sell books that are out of print.

 

[Pioneer1]

Troy

I told you the reason for this.
Years ago.

The AfroAmerican community has been going through an INTELLECTUAL DECLINE for the past 40 years or so!
While many of our brothers and sisters are thriving.....much of the community is simply getting dumber and less educated.
 

[Troy]

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

much of the community is simply getting dumber and less educated.

I believe the data does support this  But if the dramatic drop is true, it would need to be explained by something with a more immediate effect. 
 

 

[Pioneer1]

Yeah......that fake weed they're smoking...lol.

[ProfD]

It would be helpful to know if the decline in Black authors is proportional too.

 

If folks are still writing, then I'd want to know if there are as many publishers around. 

 

if writing a book is anything like making music, technology allows anyone to create  product. 

 

Getting that product it to the marketplace i.e. published (books) or distributed (music) requires another level of effort.

 

It would also be helpful to know how easy or difficult it is to get books published nowadays. 

 

I'd imagine digital technology will eventually impact book publishing and print media  similar to the music industry producing fewer records, tapes and CDs. 

 

Before we assume folks are intellectually challenged,  we might have to take a deeper dive into this conundrum. 

[Troy]

5 hours ago, ProfD said:

Before we assume folks are intellectually challenged,  we might have to take a deeper dive into this conundrum.

i have not double checked but i think the U.S. test scores are down relative to other countries.

 

5 hours ago, ProfD said:

 

It would be helpful to know if the decline in Black authors is proportional too.

 

I can say with a very high level of certainty there has not been A proportional decline. I bet there are more authors.

 

5 hours ago, ProfD said:

 

If folks are still writing, then I'd want to know if there are as many publishers around. 

 

It has never been easier to publish a book, so there probably are more published books but they were published by individuals. The books I’m really talking about are published by the larger presses.

 

 Distribution is no longer a problem if you publish with Amazon, Ingram, or any POD publisher that deals with Ingram.

 

I’m just trying to understand why there are fewer books in my store for 2022. My initial instinct is to assume there were fewer of them published. I just don’t have anything to corroborate that assumption.

[Pioneer1]

Not only has the number of Black books declined over a 20 year period but the TYPE of literature has also transformed.

20 and 30 years ago there were more Black intellectual books dealing with the economy, social issues, ACTUAL history, science, etc...compared to books about romance, music, fiction, and other forms of entertainment.

 

Today.....
Among the AfroAmerican books today, a FAAAAAR higher percentage dealing romance, and pseudo-history (fake origins and speculation taken from bits and pieces of actual history), and race-related opinion/commentary more so than facts.

Most of these books don't add to one's wealth of knowledge because they aren't based in facts but on opinions and speculation so they actually lead to more CONFUSION.
 

 

 

ProfD

 

Well I know you made it clear some time ago that you'd push back against any suggestion that AfroAmericans are experiencing intellectual decline....lol.

So I'd expect you to question that assertion.
 

[ProfD]

 

56 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

Not only has the number of Black books declined over a 20 year period but the TYPE of literature has also transformed.

 

Most of these books don't add to one's wealth of knowledge...

Like everything else in America,  AfroAmericans are also guilty of producing the junk food equivalent of literature because just like music...it sells. They're trying to get paid.

 

 Economics has that effect on intelligence. People do dumb sh8t for entertainment and in order to eat.

 

@Troy,  your understanding is clear. You already know am*zon is a problem for independent booksellers. Hang in there bro.

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

 

Like everything else in America,  AfroAmericans are also guilty of producing the junk food equivalent of literature because just like music...it sells. They're trying to get paid.

 Economics has that effect on intelligence. People do dumb sh8t for entertainment and in order to eat

 

True.
The key difference I see between those other demographics and our people is that when THEY promote trash...it's usually not THEIR trash they promote.
But when AfroAmericans promote trash...it's often SELF-denigrating.

 

Jerry Springer recently admitted that he contributed to the moral decline of American society with his shows.  But if you'd watch his shows, although there tended to be a multiracial variety of guests....the vast majority were AfroAmericans.
Grossly disproportionate.
 

[Chevdove]

On 1/5/2023 at 2:58 PM, Troy said:

 

 

It is possible that I'm completely wrong, and there has not been a significant drop in the number of Black books published in 2022.  If this is the case, I can say with 100% certainty that there has been an alarming drop in the amount and promotion and marketing behind Black books because I'm not seeing them.  Maybe is it because I'm not on TicTok  

 

What do you think? Do you have evidence to support or refute a substantial decrease in the number of Black books.

 

This is interesting, @Troy in that there has been a huge drop in the amount of promotion and marketing behind Black books. 

I did do a little research to find out how my interests in certain subjects faired amongst the book publishing industry.

What I found that was so alarming is the type of books that many publishers are in demand of and I wonder if this is why you have these observations.

 

There is a huge change today in the kind of categories listed as opposed to the past!

 

For example, I saw the acronym BIPOC and also the category of Diverse Literature in the list and thought, WOW this is kind of new to me. But what really was striking is the demand for LGBTQ+ authors! That is something that was not in the list back in the day! And so, yes, I wonder if this is a reason why there is a drop in specifically, books written by Black authors and being promoted and marketed by major book publishers. Are many Black authors now falling in the category of Diverse Literature or LGBTQ+ category?

 

Now, I do see that there are publishers that definitely list that they want African American authors but now, are these authors listed under BIPOC, Black, Indigenous, People of Color category?

 

I think times have dramatically changed in the book pubishing and book writing genre of today. 

I can't see myself competing with these writers. Maybe I could fit in the BIPOC category.

 

 

 

[Troy]

Wow @Chevdove I had not considered the decrease in the "Black" books could be the result of resources directed to "diverse" or "BIPOC" books where Black is often lumped into with Indigenous, white female, gay, transgender -- everything but white male. I don't have any data to support or refute this idea, but it is an interesting one to consider.

 

@Pioneer1 to your point.  I track books in three broad categories Fiction, Nonfiction, and poetry and while all categories were lower.  The Nonfiction category saw the largest decline.  If you look at our current bestsellers list only 2 were published this year and those 2 books were independently published.  The number of nonfiction titles in my database also peaked in 2015.

 

Looking a little deeper there was a surge in Black children's books which started in 2017 but seems to have ended in 2022. Children's books are down 33% from the 2020 peak.

 

[Chevdove]

On 1/10/2023 at 12:48 PM, Troy said:

but it is an interesting one to consider.

 

Oh yes! @Troy. It sort of makes me think about the term, Intersectionality. 

 

[Pioneer1]

On 1/10/2023 at 12:48 PM, Troy said:

 

Looking a little deeper there was a surge in Black children's books which started in 2017 but seems to have ended in 2022. Children's books are down 33% from the 2020 peak.

 

I wonder how much influence did the deaths of Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin and the resulting protests surrounded them which occurred during that time frame, have on the surge of adults buying Black books for their children?
 

I also wonder did the Pandemic and essentially being forced to homeschool your children for a good 2 years also influence this surge.

[Troy]

Michael Brown's murder absolutely resulted in an increase in Black book sales, but these sales impact a very small number of titles.  There was an increase in the publication and attention paid to books dealing with racism but again this only impacted a small number of titles.

 

The number of books published overall seems to actually be declining.

 

Please read this article December 2020 article from The New York Times it foreshadows what I'm observing now “Just How White Is the Book Industry?”

 

[Dee Miller]

@Pioneer1, I have much respect for your raw views (even if I don't agree with some of them and even when I'm offended by some of them) on this and other discussions.  Your responses are truly thought-provoking.  Thank you.  @Chevdoveyour observations are on point.  I, too, have seen lots of 'promo' for LGBTQ, BlPOC, and even with specific content requests.  IDK, but what I can attest to is the challenge of marketing/promoting with impact (which is a whole other discussion) 

 

Haha… @Troy

I was one of those (in your own words) ‘narrow-minded’ sistas who self-published on am*zon, but it was solely because, when researching how to self-publish, the resources listed included only the well-known sites.  I can't recall how I found AALBC, but I'm delighted that I did - you do better when you know better. (Wink)

 

To give input into my thoughts of the 35% fewer books published by black authors in 2022 than in 2021 and almost 50% fewer than the peak published in 2015, TTTGA (that thing that’s going around) played tricks with many our minds in that many of us spent the last few years so worried about our mental well-being,  physical well-being, and overall spirit that, for me, I could not settle down - fearing that depression, restlessness and pity parties would rule the day.  Safe to assume that 2019 - 2021, at least, remained consistent, or, at least, not much of a decline?

 

Sh&@! by 2022, I was still recovering from the mental burnout of TTTGA, and yeah, I admit that it handled me a little as I witnessed what was happening around me, and I’m not one to be handled (I much prefer to be loved for the beautiful mess I am).  

 

Don’t get me wrong, the downtime kept me ‘still’ and allowed for some great self-reflection which included working on book IV, which, by the way, thanks to aalbc, I’ve printed copies via BCP digital, and self-distributing, temporarily, that is,  until I list on aalbc, but the down time didn’t sustain my attention until mid-2022.

 

The impact of TTTGA is not an excuse, but, in fact, a ‘whole event’ (whether a conspiracy or reality or our imagination) that influenced heavy adverse outcomes.  BUT, what remains consistent is the resilience of my people - We still stand, we still have lots to say, and we will see an increase in black author publications!, again!  Just look at me - ‘I wrote you 37 letters’ published in December 2022!!!  Not sure if my December 2022 publication had much impact on the stats, but I'm baaaaack!

[Pioneer1]

Dee Miller

You're more than welcome!

Lol...now come on sis, what can a brutha like me say that could POSSIBLY offend you????

[Troy]

On 1/22/2023 at 12:52 PM, Dee Miller said:

I was one of those (in your own words) ‘narrow-minded’ sistas who self-published on am*zon,

The operative word was “exclusively.”  

 

But under further consideration maybe “narrow minded” Is not the right phrase as it applies to the individual. Amazon exerts monopolistic power when it comes to independent book sales and publishing, so the decisions are limited. Indeed that is why I’m compelled to send readers there for some books, when I spent the previous three years boycotting them.

 

The problem is for us collectively; when we publish with Amazon exclusively we give Amazon all the money to produce the book and all the money to sell and distribute it. This just increases their strength and revenue while weakening their competition.

 

 

 

[Dee Miller]

@Pioneer1 lets see....how far back should I go, hmmm.  (smile) I'm just always intrigued by your views.  You tend to make my facial expressions shift to the left.  Then, I sit back and dissect your words - very thought-provoking

 

@TroyYou're a deep brutha.  Thanks for the 'narrow-minded clarity (you speak your truth and I can appreciate it), and you're absolutely right about,   'when we publish with am*zon exclusively we give am*zon all the money to produce the book and all the money to sell and distribute it. This just increases their strength and revenue while weakening their competition'

[richardmurray]

good multilog

[josephinabazan]

On 1/5/2023 at 9:58 PM, Troy said:

The total number of books on AALBC published in 2022 was the lowest it has been since 2005! The difference is not a few book books but hundreds of books!

 

Now I don't have every Black book published on AALBC -- but my information is certainly indicative of the books published by the major publishers and the larger independents. I also capture more Black indie books than any other independent online store.   This data tells me substantially fewer Black books were published in 2022 than in the past two decades!

 

There were 35% fewer books published in 2022 than in 2021 and almost 50% fewer than the peak published in 2015, as reflected on the AALBC website.

 

We don't have news sources to notice, care about, or report on the number of books written by Black writers declining so drastically. I think it is newsworthy to understand why this is happening

 

Another book professional told me this is a direct result of the supply chain issues caused by the pandemic.  That may be true, but I would have thought that might cause more books to be published in 2022 as a result of books being delayed from 2020 and 2021.  I would have also expected a substantive decrease in 2021, which I did not observe.  Also, I see no indication that the number of books printed overall has declined, the supply chain explanation does not wash with me.

 

One thing I have noticed is that many Black indie authors publish exclusively with am*zon and while I can capture these books on AALBC, it is much more unlikely that I will add them to my store, as I can not sell them directly,* because they are not in normal distribution channels.  While this may impact the number of books in the AALBC store, the impact would not be significant as the vast majority of books in the AALBC store are not am*zon-exclusive.

 

There has also been an increased trend toward eBook-only books.  I've seen this in the urban fiction genre in particular, but this is not a new trend and does not explain the significant drop in 2022 books. 

 

It is possible that I'm completely wrong, and there has not been a significant drop in the number of Black books published in 2022.  If this is the case, I can say with 100% certainty that there has been an alarming drop in the amount and promotion and marketing behind Black books because I'm not seeing them.  Maybe is it because I'm not on TicTok  

 

What do you think? Do you have evidence to support or refute a substantial decrease in the number of Black books.

I actually started thinking about it when my professor mentioned something related to that issue. I Googled, but there is not so much info, so I thought that it would be interesting to do deeper research because I actually needed to write my final paper, and I decided to choose it as the main topic. But as I managed to find not enough info, I got some help from https://edubirdie.com/essay-writers-for-hire with the theoretical part, and I had more chances to write my thought on it. I still haven't finished writing yet, because I want to provide quality and accurate into.

 

* Because so many authors publish exclusively with am*zon I have recently started sending readers to am*zon's site for books that are only available to am*zon because promoting the writer is more important than their narrow-minded decision to publish with am*zon exclusively.  This also allows me to sell books that are out of print.

 

 

Wow, thank you for this info. I like reading, but I've never looked at statistics. And it's interesting why so. I hope to find something online, but I'm not sure there will be detailed explanation

[Troy]

As far as I know @josephinabazan the data does not exist.  But my data has to be indicative, or reflective of the total given the large differences.

 

I think it is newsworthy to understand the decline.

 

Welcome to the forum!

[Delano]

It may be that demand is down. Most people are looking at their phones and I see alot of commuters watching Tik Tock. I see one person a month with an actual book. They are so rare that I strike up a conversation with them about their book.

[Troy]

While u was writing about the supply side. I don’t think demand for books is contracting. in fact i believe there is room for growth as there is unmet demand in some categories and distribution for what is in print is constrained by the power of Amazon and the near monopoly of Ingram, so the books in print are harder to discover and get to the places where people will purchase then.

 

 Things may be entirely different down under though.
 

People could reading their books on their phone. The last book i read, i read the ebook version and listened to the audio book.  So to a casual observer in public it may have appeared i was looking at my phone.

 

When i read the hardcover i was at home. That was the first book i consumed in 3 different modalities. (I needed to get through it quickly).
 

 

[Pioneer1]

I'm constantly reading books.
I believe that's one of the reasons my eyes are so healthy at my age.

The interesting things I've noticed through out much of my life is that when I'm reading in public White folks often come up to me and ask me what I'm reading while the Black and Latino people generally don't care.
It's little stuff like that that I've noticed that causes me to be so harsh in my critique of AfroAmericans and the intellectual decline of our community.

Evidence of it's decline happens to much and over too long a period of time to ignore or be coincidental.
I've lived around the U.S. from coast to coast from North to South and the pattern seems to be the same.
White folks interested in what I'm reading and ready to strike up a conversation to find out how much I know....most Black and Latino folks not caring.
 

[Troy]

I generally don't ask people about what they are reading in public.  This is not because I don't care; in fact, I'm often very curious, but I don't interrupt them to ask out of respect for the person's privacy. 

 

I was on the NYC subway reading the book Cold Mountain.  Engrossed in the novel I looked up and noticed the woman sitting next to me was reading the same book.  I looked at her, she smiled and said, "Isin't this a really good book!"  I said, "Yes it is."  We went back to enjoying our novels.  It was a pleasant enough exchange, but neither of us probed the other for more information.

 

@Pioneer1 Why do you think these white folks are curious enough to impose and ask you what you about what you reading?  

[Pioneer1]

Troy

Why do you think these white folks are curious enough to impose and ask you what you about what you reading?  

 

Because they have an insatiable desire to find out what Black people....especially AfroAmericans....are thinking.

They want to know if we pose a threat to their power or not.

 

If you're reading something about sports or some sort of religious book....you're OK.

 

But if you're reading something written by Mao TsaDong...
 

  .....NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[Troy]

I was thinking the reaction was fascination and a desire learn what could possibly interest a monkey enough to try to read a book. 

[Pioneer1]

Troy

Most Whites who DO feel that way are usually of low intellect themselves and outside of brief curiosity....really could care less what a Black man is reading.
They're usually the type of White folks who are constantly struggling and dealing with trying to "make it".

Smart White folks....even if they see us as intellectually inferior as a collective...know that SOME of us are geniuses.
And they're on the look out for them, lol.

[Dee Miller]

@Troy @Pioneer1  @Delano  I'm sighing, eye-rolling, and a little bit cussing. 

 

When it comes to ANYBODY acknowledging & commenting about me reading a book in public....REALLY?   Are we, you seeking confirmation from our white counterpart for some reason, yet sitting in judgment about our own for not recognizing your intellect?  I'm pretty intelligent, but I assure you that, not only would I not acknowledge that you're reading, why, because I would already assume that you read because that's what you like to do, but I also don't like talking to people...haha (unless I want to).  What does it say about someone like me who wants to ride the train in peace with my random thoughts? 

 

Bruh, don't counter-comment about what AfroAmericans are not doing to what whites are doing (unless its a legit and confirmed fact), please.  Love you, mean it!  

  

On 5/29/2023 at 11:02 AM, Pioneer1 said:

Because they have an insatiable desire to find out what Black people....especially AfroAmericans....are thinking.

I do agree with @Pioneer1 statement; however.  

[Delano]

2 hours ago, Dee Miller said:

When it comes to ANYBODY acknowledging & commenting about me reading a book in public....REALLY? 

Frfr I don't push it though. If it's an author I know I'll suggest other books they may also find interesting. t's only in the last third of my life that I started talking to strangers. Every once and a while it doesn't work or I get a grumpy response. Most people like talking about themselves, that has been my experince for the last two decades, with a few exceptions. 

I am not certain that people are reading a book on their phone. I haven't seen that many tablets on public transport.

[Troy]

I always read ebooks on my cell phone.  If I'm gonna read on something as big as a tablet I just go with the book. 

[Pioneer1]

On the occasion that it happens, I LOVE it when Black people....but especially women....acknowledge that I'm reading in public.
I used to go to bookstores SPECIFICALLY to pick up women and have conversations with them over what they were reading or I was reading.

Everybody needs to find their own methods of communication and what works for them.

 

[ProfD]

14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

I used to go to bookstores SPECIFICALLY to pick up women and have conversations with them over what they were reading or I was reading.

Everybody needs to find their own methods of communication and what works for them.

OK.  But, I'd be slightly curious to know your reason for trying to pick up women in a bookstore.

 

If you were looking for a *smart* woman to be your wife or significant other, a bookstore could be one spot. 

 

But, I would think a university or college campus would have provided access to *educated* women too.

Otherwise, if your objective was to find a woman to smash, there were plenty spots besides Barnes & Noble.

 

Overall, you're right in that most people have to find their lane(s) when it comes to making those connections. 

 

However, the shortest distance between two points is still a line.  Be direct.  Saves a whole lot of time, energy and resources.

[Pioneer1]

ProfD

 

 

OK.  But, I'd be slightly curious to know your reason for trying to pick up women in a bookstore.

I didn't care too much for clubs or bars, especially the ones in Detroit.

I used to go to clubs with my friends as a teenager and noticed that in most of them....everybody already knew eachother.
Hell, half of the women there were at the club WITH their man!

I saw more dudes getting into fights at these clubs than pick up women.
Also they go to get drunk and smoke or sell dope.
Too many people getting into fights and shot over bullshit.

By the time I got to 19 or 20 I wised up and stopped going.

I started going to CANADA instead and that's where we REALLY met a lot of women who were hungry for American men...lol.
 

 

 

 

If you were looking for a *smart* woman to be your wife or significant other, a bookstore could be one spot. 

 

Lol....wasn't looking for a wife back then.

 

 

 

 

 

But, I would think a university or college campus would have provided access to *educated* women too.

 

I did that too.
I used to go to college campus libraries but not to look for women but to do research AND meet women in my spare time if one was particularly attractive.
I loved talking with the African women.

 

 

Otherwise, if your objective was to find a woman to smash, there were plenty spots besides Barnes & Noble.

 

You're right, but I wasn't the most attractive brutha in the world so it wasn't like I could hang out at the car wash or go to the grocery store and drag a woman home.
I had to use my mouthpiece...lol.
A lot of women didn't are how I looked.
It was just the fact that they saw a Black man READING that impressed them and drew them closer to me.
 

 

However, the shortest distance between two points is still a line.  Be direct.  Saves a whole lot of time, energy and resources.

 

Sometimes it could be a good way to get dissed and embarrassed if you aren't careful who you run up on...lol.

 

 

 

"Hey, excuse me.....I happen to notice everyday you-"
"Fuck off .  I only like Black guys!"

 

[ProfD]

8 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

You're right, but I wasn't the most attractive brutha in the world so it wasn't like I could hang out at the car wash or go to the grocery store and drag a woman home.
I had to use my mouthpiece...lol

Surely you already know this by now but confidence is a man's most attractive feature.

 

Failure and rejection sharpens iron. It happens to the best, brightest and most beautiful human beings. Nobody gets everything they want.

[Delano]

On 5/31/2023 at 5:37 AM, Dee Miller said:

  What does it say about someone like me who wants to ride the train in peace with my random thoughts? 

I have no idea. Although I was talking with another commuter. And she invited me to her free Burlesque show .

[Pioneer1]

3 hours ago, Delano said:

I have no idea. Although I was talking with another commuter. And she invited me to her free Burlesque show .

Lol.......wait until you find out "she" is actually a HE.

 

[Delano]

11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Lol.......wait until you find out "she" is actually a HE

I am interested in conversation so a person sexual orientation or identity is not an issue.

 

It may be a foreign concept to you. To have a conversation or interaction without an agenda. 

[Pioneer1]

41 minutes ago, Delano said:

I am interested in conversation so a person sexual orientation or identity is not an issue.

 

It may be a foreign concept to you. To have a conversation or interaction without an agenda. 

It's foreign to YOU too.....as you claim that you have conversations and interactions to exchange ideas.
Sounds like part of an "agenda" to me....lol.

[Delano]

2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

It's foreign to YOU too.....as you claim that you have conversations and interactions to exchange ideas.
Sounds like part of an "agenda" to me....lol.

I am interested in conversation that is my agenda. Which is obvious to most people. 

[Pioneer1]

12 hours ago, Delano said:

I am interested in conversation that is my agenda. Which is obvious to most people. 

So you DO have an agenda.....after saying you didn't, lol.

[Delano]

There is no agenda to the conversation, the conversation isn't a means of extraction. It is the ends.

I think we have exhausted this particular...

[Pioneer1]

On 6/11/2023 at 6:01 PM, Delano said:

There is no agenda to the conversation, the conversation isn't a means of extraction. It is the ends.

I think we have exhausted this particular...

First you said there is NO agenda.
But then I said you indeed DID have one....which you denied.
But I eventually pulled it out of you that you DID have an agenda that you actually admitted to....lol.

Lol...Why make things so hard for yourself, Del?