Pioneer1

Sara Well thank you for amplifying my point with more examples of how just about everyone has benefited off of the United States federal government.....even more so than Black America itself. Reminds me of ole mammy's titty that used to feed a dozen little white babies before it got to feed her own. BTW, I didn't forget about the Marshall Plan, I was actually saving it for later along with the rebuilding of Japan and making it a technological center. Ronald Reagan was the first to start shutting down mental health facilities in California to save the state money and once he started doing it and other governors saw him get away with it, it started a ripple effect all over the entire nations. Like you said causing the homeless crisis we see today. Most of the vicims of police shootings are mentally disturbed and developmentally disabled individuals who a couple generations ago would have been safely confined to mental institutions for their and the public's safety. Today they're out on the street either victimizing people or are victims themselves until they run across trigger happy cops. The recent situation in Texas involving that 17 year old Black boy accused of foul play in the disappearance and death of that 18 year old college student is an example of a failed system. Whether he's guilty or not, the question I have is why was a 17 year old minor with developmental disabilities homeless and out roaming the streets?

Ahh man, what happened to my Pioneer1fan joke post?

Cynique Well, Pioneer, I am of the opinion that West and Smiley were suffering from serious cases of bruised egos. I think that because he supported Obama's presidential run, Cornel thought he was going to become one of the resident black academics in Obama's white house inner circle and Obama snubbed. him. And Tavis was quite miffed and obviously hurt that Obama declined to appear at the big black think tank convention he sponsored and which ran on C-Span. I really believe Ben Carson was jealous of Obama because Barak stole a lot of his "Super Negro" thunder and Ben always had a lot of snide things to say about him. 　 I think, too, that there was a certain element among black leaders who may not have wanted to be president, but who thought they could do a better job than Barack was doing and, again, this includes Carson. To be honest I wasn't COUNTING the silly negroes who aspouse right wing self-depricating beliefs like Herman "999" Cain, Alan "get your hands off me" Keyes, and Ben Carson whom I DO have a little more respect for than the other 2. It goes without saying they were "hating" on Obama. But what you said about the others makes more sense to me now that you've detailed it. But could Cornel seriously see himself as being a part of Obama's Cabinet or one of his top Advisors? I mean, could YOU see him sitting up at one of Obama's diplomatic meetings in Moscow or Beijing rocking back and forth with that big Afro, talking loud and getting all up in people's personal space....lol. CD Pioneer when has any president really focused on domestic policies that shape Black America? 1. Franklin D. Rooselvelt....by proxy giving Blacks tremendous economic benefit through the New Deal and WPA programs. Through housing projects, he also solved the housing crisis so many Black people in the cities found themselves in. 2. Lyndon B. Johnson....giving us political/legal assistance with the Civil Rights Act and numerous inner city jobs programs But all this was well over 40 years ago, no other president has really focused on helping the Black community in an effective manner since.....because we haven't demanded it. While I believe we as a people need to be more self reliant, I recognize that the concept of "rugged individualism" is just a myth usually used by conservative White men...who certainly don't practice it themselves. ALL groups who have achieved anything of value in the United States have benefited off of the government helping them in one way or another whether it's Blacks who depending on the Federal Government to rescue them from the oppression of State monarchies (Civil War, Jim Crow) or Whites who took advantage of the Homestead Act to get FREE land to build a a future for themselves or took advantage of the GI Bills to acquire homes in the suburbs....ruining the property value of America's inner cities. Or Asian/Arab immigrants who benefit off of Federal government tax breaks and immigration policies that invite them in for an education and economic opportunities. Not only do other groups IN AMERICA benefit off of the government, nearly the entire REST OF THE WORLD benefits off of our Federal government in the form of foreign aid. Think about the billions of dollars sent to help the economies of Japan, South Korea, Russia, China, and other nations we are supposedly in "competition" with. But when it comes to helping fellow Americans, especially the Black man and woman in the city....they say stop asking for a hand out and pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. It would be one thing if Blacks were LEFT ALONE to scrap up enough money and resources to build their own businesses like the old days, but today not only is there an economic challenge to come up with the money but too often a LEGAL challenge when it comes to trying to start up your own business with zealous lawyers and other legalists who sit around making up unnecessary laws and policies and hoops to jump through just to open up a hotdog stand. I'm not sure about Memphis but back in the 1970s when Black folks made up less than a third of Detroits population we managed to elect a bold Black mayor, and owned hundreds if not thousands of Black businesses in the city. 10 years later afer Ronald flip-Wilson Reagan came into office most of those businesses were destroyed and many of the Black politicians were indicted and persecuted and the Black neighborhoods began to deteriorate. Reagan and his conservative allies at the state and local levels did this through LAWS, CODES, and POLICIES that went around nit-picking and finding faulth with the paper work and legality of many Black businesses causing them to constantly be in and out of court, renewing liscences, and filling out tons of paper work....all in an effort to crush their morale. This is why we need a FRIEND in the White house. We not only need someone who looks out for us economically but POLITICALLY too, to change and challenge adverse laws that seem to target small and Black businesses in an effort to limit Black success. Everyone who sends a man to office EXPECTS something from him. Everyone has their hand out....that's politics. No man is an island that he can do everything FOR himself BY himself. You need allies and friends. What good is a guy in office who ain't doing anything for you?

Ofcourse Blacks were coming here since before Columbus. It was the Blacks (Moors) who showed the Spanish how to get here in the first place, lol. Infact, one of Columbus's ships (The Nina or Nino) was named after the Black man who sailed with him and helped him get here and back....Pedro Nino

Today's college education teaches Black youth how to "fit in" to a society that has already been established by others. A society where they're increasingly not wanted. Marketing manager? Computer software designer? Intelligence expert? These are all careers for the individual who is already living in an established and well build society, and is welcomed in that society. These careers are for social "refinement". Black youth need to learn how to mold and BUILD a society for themselves within America that is more conducive to their own social, moral, and economic habits. This requires skills in building a basic foundation. Civil engineering Architecture Urban planning Metal works, ect..... THESE are what Black youth should be focused on learning ! How to repair THEIR communities and how to build new ones. I go to Starbucks and see a young Black man in glasses sitting on a stool and grinning at me talking about he wants to be the next Steve Jobs and I slap that chocolate latte out of his hand and all over his laptop making it sizzle and smoke! He doesn't even know how to grow food to FEED himself ,but some movie he saw or one of his goof-off White friends has fooled him into focusing on some hightech computerized garbage that does little to NOTHING toward solving the serious problems of his home'hood back in Philadelphia. I told him Philadelphia and D.C. and most urban inner cities are falling apart. Instead of focusing on a degree so you can beg some else for a job and then go chasing after them to get out of the ghetto.....learn how to rebuild the ghetto and make it a place others would want to move to.

Cynique Well, seeing as how Barbara Byrd Bennett, Chicago's highly-paid, black female Superintendent of Schools was recently forced to resign after the Feds found out she was in cahoots with a consultant company that paid her thousands in kickbacks, I have to say that I'd give her an "A" when it came to emulating corrupt white officials who get caught and are smeared by the MEDIA. One of the demands quoted in an E-maIl that helped seal her doom was what she wrote to one of her partners-in- crime who apparently was draggin his feet on her money: "I have tuitions to pay and Casinos to visit".. I'm not saying ALL Black officials are saints completely innocent of the charges they're accused of. I'm saying too often Black people in positions of authority are TARGETED for harassment and removal of power by an even GREATER agenda based on racist plans to limit Black political and economic power. There prosecutors could care less about real "justice". They have racist agenda and they often use the media to help carry it out so we should be cautious in everything we hear. Besides, student loans and college tuition are artificially manufactured debts and costs that need not be. Students and parents refuse to stand up and demand lower costs, so this is what they get for their cowardice. And casinos are legal institutions for gambling. If the public has a problem with city officials hanging out at the casino then they should start a petition to get them shut down. Other than that, however a person wants to spend their earned money is their own business as far as I'm concerned. It's funny to me how the media managed to get the scoop on THIS woman's emails and don't mind sharing them with the world, yet we've still heard nothing about the emails swapped among the staff members of Governor Jeb Bush's Administration and it's involvemnt in voter fraud during the 2000 election. Not a peep.

CD When I was younger I used to wonder why Black people couldn't live together and pool their resources together like the Mexicans or Asians, now I know why. Blacks from Africa can do it because they're used to it....but those of us born and raised in Western society are to individualistic and need too much "space" to live like that and raise our children in that environment. Most Whites couldn't live like that either, which is why they invented trailer parks...lol. Now many of our people DID do it temporarily when they came up from down South. My mother and her sisters and brothers would each come up from Mississippi and stay in an established brother's spare bedroom or basement or whereever and when they got a job (which was plentiful at that time) they'd pay some rent and eventually move out to buy their own home. But the society and economy was different back then. There was more of a family spirit. Like I said, even White people born and raised in America or Europe can't live together in groups like Asians and Mexicans do because they aren't used to those type of impoverished social conditions where people are sleeping on top of eachother, using the toilets right behind eachother, and even wearing the same underwear...lol. We have to gradually get to the point of communal living. But I do think living in groups WILL be the family of the future. Sort of like the extended family but only you get to CHOOSE your extentions rather than being born with them. BTW, at this point of Black economic development....monetary reparations would probably help more Asian and Arab proprietors in the ghetto than the people they were intended to help. Mel If you notice, I didn't say replace the nuclear family period but replace it as the STANDARD or IDEAL. I envision a time when just about ALL family types (except those of the pedophilic type) will be permitted in society whether it's extended, nuclear, man with man, woman with woman, man with several women, woman with several men.....or people just by themselves. However the law of social averages DEMANDS that one type predominates. As I mentioned to CD, I believe the NEW prevailing family of the future America will be the GROUP FAMILY where you have several men and several women together living under an arrangement and taking care of the children and eachother.

Sarafan Wussamatta....lol....you don't like MY posts? How you gonna come up in this mug and give SARA all your Kool Aid and don't offer nobody else none?

Cynique, I was getting ready to say the same thing..... Tell us a little something about YOURSELF first....lol. BTW (if your still here)....... What does "ATLEAST UNDER 10 years" mean?

Happy Birthday Trouble T-Roy ! Point that shoulder in this direction so I can pound out them years....lol. I saw the title and didn't know WHAT the hell this thread was about. I thought Cynique might have gotten some good news from TurboTax or something and decided to share it with us.

Sara One of the problems is the 2 sets aren't congruent with eachother. The so-called truths have no relationship with the alledged "lies" of the same number....lol.

I still remember the movie "Lady Sings The Blues" with Diana Ross playing Billie. Two scenes I'll probably never forget is her cussing out the KKK. Up until that time, for some reason I thought "mutha f*cka" was a word only men (and us boys) used....lol. And the saddest scene had to be Richard Pryor getting beat up in the hotel room over drugs.

As Sean Puffy Combs would say: Yeah...I like this right here...Bad Bo Too bad you had to ruin it with another one of your open ended semi-rhetorical questions....lol. I've heard "Lies": 2, 3, 6, 8, 11 quite a bit growing up. Not from my own parents, but from a few older Black adults in my neighborhood. And I wouldn't call them complete lies, but they aren't entirely grounded in reality either. They tend to teeter back and forth between being false and true depending on the context as well as a proper undertanding of what the adult was trying to tell you. I don't know a Black man in America who hasn't had atleast one negative encounter with the police. However how you carry yourself and how you interact with the police has a major influence on your relationship with the criminal justice system. Old Black men who knew told you to remember that that police officer has power in the street.....so if you have a problem with him, save it until you get in the court room. The older I get the more I realize how much so many of the older Black men and women knew what they were talking about because experience and observation fleshed out advice they may not have articulated so well. BTW, I wouldn't called #10 a lie. Perhaps we may not necessarily KNOW where we get our full reward, but to call it a lie implies that the author knows for sure there's nothing waiting on the other side.

Troy Tavis was crucified! His career, and platform, is a shadow of what it was before Obama. Like a true Mississippian, Tavis likes to remind Black folks that they called him "everything but a child of God" for daring to hold Obama accountable. While I must with slight embarassment admit I haven't read the entire book, I can with more assurance say that simply a book of "great ideas" doesn't necessarily qualify as a sound political agenda. Besides, the man probably already has 15 or 20 default agendas already laid out for him upon being President that he's obligated to enact. Like Don Corleone..he's a busy man....he doesn't have time to hang out at the local Starbucks sipping on lattes while reading Tavis Smiley's books for advice. A sound political agenda for a community of 40 million (a mini-nation) involves dozens of Black leaders from across the political and social spectrum sitting down and coming up with blue prints, goals, and sound economic, social, and political projections to be presented to the interm President even before he takes his oath. To my knowledge, this wasn't done with our brother....Obama. Cynique Now come on, do you really think that most of the Black men who criticize him are jealous of his position or some other aspect of his life? Most of his most prominent Black male critics like Smiley and West and now Dyson wouldn't accept an official position in politics if you paid them double and begged them to. Unless you're suggesting established Black figures are jealous that this relatively "new negro" whom most of us hadn't even heard of 12 years ago is now getting more attention and respect from the White world than those who've been before the cameras much much longer. I have never considered him an authentic black man because his ancestors did not pay their dues as slaves and slave descendents. This was also my concern with him. The fact that his father was an African from Kenya was actually more concerning than the fact that he had a White mother. Especially knowing the mentality of so many Africans who seem to ignore the major role racism plays in American life and often outright dismiss it as unappreciative Black Americans complaining too much about "nothing". I honestly think that Michelle keeps him grounded in Black affairs. CD Although it would have been a major mistake to expect Obama to solve all of the problems of the Black community, as President.....if he would have just focused 1/4 the energy on his DOMESTIC POLICIES (if he ever HAD any besides that right-wing healthcare crap) as he focused on his foreign policies of chasing Bin Laden and ISIS around in the desert...mainland America would be in better shape today. As they say, a rising tide lifts ALL boats. If he had spent more time addressing the needs to repair American's crumbling urban infrastructure (does Flint ring a bell??), introduce a federally funded employment program especially for ex-convicts and unskilled workers, and instituting programs to identity and fortify all failing school districts in America....this alone would have advanced not only Black America but all Americans light years ahead of where we are today. How can I give him credit for letting a few small time dope pushers out of jail early, knowing many of them are just going to go right back in....because he hasn't used his executive position to address the socio-economic CONDITIONS that pushed them into the dope game in the first place?

Sara I've heard more than a few females tell me how obsessive and even stalking cops can be. They say there's an air of arrogance a lot of police officers have that is almost seen as an entitlement that you SHOULD find me attractive or you SHOULD be glad I'm interested in you. A couple females told me that many Black police officers play the "good brutha" card. Figuring it's so many no good Black men out there in trouble, you should be glad a "good" Black man is interested in you. As far as women being more likely to intervene......... If you're talking about standing on the side in a pair of tight pants far away from the actions screaming, "Stop it yall.....stop it now....why is yall actin' like this!!!" Yeah...women are usually the first ones to do that...lol. But when was the last time you saw a woman actually get in between 2 adults fighting whether they were male OR female? When I say "stepping in" to a fight, I mean that LITERALLY. Men are far more likely to step in between two adults slugging it out and try to break up the action or hold one back than women. Infact, I can't remember the last time I saw a woman actually involve herself physically to stop a fight. Having said that, in my personal experience, I have found that when I stand my ground with a racist white MALE in public, black men will step up and come to my assistance. And it has happened more than once. Even those whose from homes in which their fathers abandoned them You sound like you do this quite often....lol. Are you one of those loud sistaz who get in the "12 items or less" lane at the grocery store with 50 items and then stand there arguing and cussing at the White cashier with the ring in his nose because he asks you to move over? Because I had to stop defending them sistaz and start taking the White man's side.....lol. I can't lie, actually I see more White women doing that shit than Black women...lol.

Sara One last thing: The OP decries "corrupt" black teachers and administrators. Question: Have any of them been convicted? Or, is this as with any accusation against black people, no matter how foul, they are automatically GUILTY.... without a trial? I believe I raised a related question a few weeks ago in another thread about how the American media seems to try and convict people in the editing room before the ink finishes drying on the papers of their prosecution. Whether it's supposedly "white collar" crimes such as this, or the daily robberies and murders sensationalized on the nightly news......the media is constantly flashing the pictures of SUSPECTS all over the screen along with their ALLEDGED crimes without all of the facts of the case essentionally condeming them in the court of public opinion and ruining their reputation in society. Surely there needs to be some sort of law against this type of "dry racism" so often engaged in by the mainstream American media.

Brother Burns You ask how can we fix things? I say it happens from the inside out. As we fix our families, the communities get better and the people get stronger. It's a lot easier said than done. I agree with you in theory that fixing the families is a start in the sense that a more stable home produces more stable children. However, the West prides itself on individualism and sexual freedom. Which inevitably leads to a substantial amount of out of wedlock births and high divorce rate. Broken families pretty much comes with the territory of a free and open society. So unless we make it some sort of LAW that people must marry before having sex, or atleast before having children and then make another LAW forcing the parents to stay together to raise those children.....perhaps we may have to look at changing the very SOCIAL INFRASTRUCTURE this society was based on to begin with. Perhaps it's time to REPLACE the "nuclear family" as ideal or standard, and find a new family structure that is more befitting of our current social reality.....no?

I've read "Up From Slavery" also, it was one of the most profound books I've read so far. Apart from the "know your place" precept often associated with Brother Booker's philosphy, I consider myself a Booker T. Washington type of fellow in the sense that I believe Black people should focus more on the skilled trades and making a job and building a society for themselves instead of focusing their children so much on college education which guarantees nothing but debt and at best teaches them how to best "fit in" to someone else's society. Marcus Garvey read his book also and it was one of his inspirations to come to the United States and start his world renown UNIA movement. One of the things I hope comes out of our efforts to rebuild Flint will be a renewed interest among Black youth in the skilled trades as well as civil engineering and urban planning in general.

Guest I agree that achievement and independence are the way to illustrate equality, not just carry on about it. Then the concept of white supremacy collapses in the face of empirical evidence, not high-minded talk. Well put! Del White Supremacy has to be dismantled by Whites. since they created and gave it agency. No amount òf achievement will counter act Of hire Supremacy because it is not rational. It's belief in a self perpetuating fiction Since it was created by..... maintained by..... and benefitted by......Whites Then Whites should be the LAST people you'd expect to dismantle White Supremacy. Why would I destroy an insitution that has benefitted me? White Supremacy actually IS a rational ideaology because it's logically based on beliefs, generalizations, and observations by most of those those who hold that ideaology. It's just that many of those beliefs and generalizations are false or exaggerated. Concrete PROOF of Black achievement defeats the mere anecdotal EVIDENCE of White superiority and thus dismantles the false ideaology of White Supremacy.

Tavis also caught a little hell for his insisting that Obama be held to a standard rather than give him unconditional support. I like Brother Dyson, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for his not rushing as quickly as the others to criticize Obama. Perhaps he thought it would have been wisest to wait and give President Obama enough time to settle into the Whitehouse and into his role before expecting too much out of him. Now after his term is almost up, he feels more comfortable in criticizing him. But I have to also defend Obama by saying he has repeatedly told Black people to FORCE him into action by organizing and presenting him with an actual agenda that he can impliment. No Black organization or coalition of organizations to my knowledge has done what he's asked since he's been in office.

Dr J It appears that white supremacy/racism begin when Black People begin the the task of achieving all around the world. One well know example would be the "Black Wall Street" in Tulsa, Oklahoma this town was literally destroyed. If it APPEARS to you that White Supremacy began around the time of Black progress or Black Wall Street in Tulsa, don't believe what you SEE. That's a FALSE illusion playing tricks on you...lol. White Supremacy was around waaaaaay before that. White Supremacy has existed since before the TransAtlantic Slave Trade. Europeans were more technologically advanced than the Africans they kidnapped and enslaved, so how did African achievement (or the lack there of) contribute to them being victims of White Supremacy? Black Wall Street was an ANSWER to White Supremacy, not the CAUSE of it. The holding back and holding up a group of people because you can, and this action having an impact on their lives and their children lives has to be supreme, this is frightening, and the answer is continue to achievement? Ofcourse. What better way do you know to defeat someone trying to hold you back than to NOT LET them? To be successful anyway inspite of their malicious attempts? A few weeks ago in Mississippi a Black family was kidnapped by a Black criminal and held hostage. Supposed the man and woman took ahold of the belief that to try to achieve freedom from their kidnapper would have been counter productive and would have only made him angry? There's no telling what would have happened to them. But fortunately they were more focused on ACHIEVING freedom for themselves and their children and the sista managed to get free, get her husband's gun, and "dealt" with their kidnapper in a manner that allowed the family to go free. Again, I ask the question, how do we begin the process of solving this world problem of white supremacy/racism. This powerful institutions has and continue to destroy many lives and many cultures. White Supremacy isn't necessarily a world wide "problem". Infact, it's not even a problem at all....to most White people....as they benefit from it. Nor is it a problem to people of color who have no intentions of contending it and have satisfied themselves with simply accepting it as a fact of life. It's only a "problem" for those who believe that it's a false doctrine. They know that White's are not supreme and they set out to disprove the doctrine of White Supremacy through the only sure way ever proven to defeat it.....high achievement.

Could you exert your influence and see that Hillary wins the New York Primaries. I'm sick of the Bernie fans yapping about his "momentum" ...hhmmmm. Well, let me make a few phone calls to some other powerful Black men who will get in touch with some even MORE powerful Black women, who know less powerful White women....who have Oprah on speed dial. Because Oprah was the one who got Obama in office! And ain't it funny how we haven't heard shit about it since he's been elected. I've seen the HNIC mentality on several occasions....... One of the things I've noticed about a lot of Black men (and a lot of Black women too) who get into a position of authority is that often times they tend to abuse it unknowingly. They become paranoid that others are envious of their positions. Or they feel that White people are watching over them to see if they're being too "easy" on Black employees. So out of paranoia, or to prove a point to White management they become very harsh in their treatment of subordinates and any questioning of them seem to be a challenge to their authority. Or they figure that you're treating them in a way you wouldn't have treated a White person in that same position. One of the characteristics of a good leader is one who not only knows how to give orders and flex their powers, but also do it in ways that make his/her subordinates ENJOY submitting to their authority and produces harmony in the organization.

Well, for centuries right up until the crack epidemic of the 80s Black people (in America atleast) actually DID see themselves as morally superior to Whites. While many Black Americans had historically seen Whites as smarter and wealthier, even better looking, they all held on to the belief that there were certain things "Black folks just didn't do". We thought mass killings, incest, and devil worship were all "White vices" that Black folks didn't engage in. I can still remember as a kid hearing about gruesome murders or acts of cannibalism on television and Black men at the barbershop shaking theirr heads at how depraved some of them "White folks". True Black Supremacy in the United States started with the Nation of Islam. I think a lot of people both White and Black were knocked back on their heals in shock when Malcolm came on the scene and publicly demeaned and condemned the White race as "devils" and declared them to be inferior to Black people. And they would often use history and genetic science to back up their claims.

Cynique I don't think I've ever personally met a powerful black man You should be flattered to know that you're communicating with one right now. Now that you know, this is your chance to ask all the questions you've ever wanted to ask a poweful negro. Don't waste this opportunity!

Troy This kid unloaded this was 36 years ago and I never forgot it. Damn. Lol, you went to college at 4? I go to the nearest major university from time to time and interview Black students just to get a pulse on what's going on in their heads. One of the biggest complaints a lot of Black students tell me is that White students will openly tell them that they don't "belong" there. That the only reason they are there is because of affirmative action or quotas or some "program" that got them in a spot or slot they weren't really qualified for. They tell them this to their face! It's alright for White women to benefit off of affirmative action and quotas whether in education or at the workplace, but when other groups who have been victims of historical discrimination do it....all of a sudden the scales of justice has been booby-trapped. I feel like telling those kids GOOD. If you're not going to be a doctor or scientist you should keep your ass out of college anyway, it's a SCAM. Charging you an arm and a leg and getting you into perpetual debt without so much as even guranteeing you a job paying enough to support a family once you finally do get a degree. I'm hearing now some schools even hold the degree you've earned until a portion of the debt is paid! I see young white people begging for money every single day You know what I see? Most of the people on the street begging those who pass by are Black and to some extent Latino. While most of the people standing near the traffic coming off freeways and intersections holding signs and begging are White.