Pioneer1

Mel I believe if you're a man of any color and can't make in a world set up for men, then too bad. This IS patriarchal system...no doubt. But even in a male dominated partriarchal system it is commonly understood that only CERTAIN men will ever have any meaninful power while the fate of other men are little better than the women and children of that society. Infact, in most patriarchal cultures the men in charge not only prevent OTHER men from acquiring power....but while they may subjegate and abuse the women....they often KILL off the other men to avoid the threat of competition and resistance. So I suppose the key is a more equal egalitarian system that treats everyone fairly and power is delegated toward individuals who are qualified to posses it.

Cynique What you said is the reason no longer call myself a "Pan African". I don't necessarily hold African culture as ideal or superior to the one we as AfroAmericans are practicing in America today. Infact, we were practicing it WHEN Europeans who had a more technologically advanced weaponry were able to come in and enslave and colonize our people. So going back to that SAME system would be a mistake. We should constantly seek to go forward and look for ways to improve ourselves individually and as a community in terms of technology, language, medicine, spirituality, ect... We can use the past as a REFERENCE, but the constant glorification of African culture and African history (much of which is unproven) that so many of our people are engulfed in is in my opinion a waste of valuable time and energy. Besides, most Africans don't accept us as authentically African anyway....lol. We are Americans (including the Blacks of Central and South America) and should use our opportunity in America to advance our cause and possibly HELP Africa to solve some of it's many ills....while solving our own.

The LAND of what is called the "Middle East" covers both Asia, Africa, and in some cases Europe (Turkey, Armenia). And the original inhabitants of the land refered to as the the "Middle East" was occupied by dark skinned people whom we would call African or East Indian today. However much of the history of that land involves Caucasians who came down from central Asia and occupied much of the land, mixed in with the original inhabitants, introduced their own systems and cultures, and fused their own religious beliefs with the beliefs of the original inhabitants. So it's not as cut and dry as saying, "The Egyptians were Black" or "The Israelites were African". It's very mixed and complicated. Africans are indeed spiritual people, but I doubt that the keys to that spirituality will ever be found in such a man-made and flawed book as the Bible.

Now I also appreciate that there are some people who love to see two people go at it I hope I didn't miss anything "juicy"....lol. I popped in here yesterday and read something about me being trifflin' with nothing better to do. So I FOUND something to do! I went to a lecture last night about the targettng of Black boys and how the mass incarceration system played a huge role in this and thought about this thread. One of the speakers, a sister of Haitian descent by way of Brooklyn but relocated to Michigan and now works either with or out of the local Prosecutor's office drilled down on the "zero tolerance" policy in most public schools today where boys...especially Black boys...are being severely punished (expelled, medicated) for the most minor of disturbances. She's seen how this policy seem to be a starting point for how so many young Black men she's come across end up in the system. I've been noticing this for years. Black boys are facing much harsher punishments for things all of us did when we were kids like fighting or being late for class. They either get kicked out or they are labled as "troubled" and put on psychiatric medication. I believe this serves as an intimidation tactic also. I believe the plan is to produce a very timid, sterile, passive society where corporate America can treat their workers any kind of way without the fear of anyone standing up and challenging them in the workplace. This is one of the reasons I stress to young Black boys and girls GET YOUR OWN BUSINESS if you can. If people don't want to treat you properly in their system, you should find ways to create your own system of doing things.

My views about this subject has changed so much over the years... I've went from believing that Jesus was White as a child, to believing he was Black, to now questioning whether he even existed AT ALL. From the research I've done on religion, religious scripture, and the history of the Middle East; it's becoming apparent that much of what the Bible has to say about history BEFORE the Babylonian Exile period (about 500 B.C.) is complete fabrication. If I'm ever blessed to start my own school, one of the thing I will NOT teach is history beyond the 20th century. Because most of it can't be proven. The best most of us can do is just gather evidence and weigh it to make a determination of what really happened. A solid education starts with a firm foundation of FACTS, and you can't establish something as FACT if you can't prove it.

Sheeeeyit....age is a little more than just a number. It's also a LIMIT...on what you can eat. I know there are certain things I was able to consume in my 20s that I can no longer consume today without experiencing the consequences. Like ice cream, milk, and chocolate.

The Kardashians just have the money and the IDGAF attitude to do what many White and other non-Black women have wanted to do for years....and that's be in a sexual relationship with Black men. The mainstream media (still mostly controled by White men) clowns on these women every chance they get. Hoping, praying, laying in wait....for any and every negative or nutrageous thing that happens from Kanye's rants to Lamar Odom's overdoses to use as a weapon to warn other White women of the consequences of having relationships with Black men. I remember the same thing the media's doing to Kim and Kanye, they did it to Puffy and Jennifer Lopez...until they broke up.

Cynique And as usual you have taken Troy's anecdotal experience as proof that when all teachers tell boys to sit up straight they mean for them to press their legs together tightly. But that was just his individual experience. You have no proof that your detailed description of how all teachers expect black boys to behave is true. It is a generalization that doesn't apply to all teachers; you also seem to overlook that there are male teachers who frown upon boys slouching in their seats. This whole discussion is just an exercise in opinion-expressing from which no definitive conclusions can be drawn. I'm done. Well, before you leave... You may want to RE-READ the example given about the teacher punishing the boy for not sitting up straight because it's MINE...not Troy's. And again, it was both the teacher AND the principal who attempted to punish me for not sitting with my legs squeezed together like them...because they were female. 　 Sara Do you know what I'm gonna do???? I'm gonna wait until the others finish tearing you apart. Then I'm gonna come right behind them, grind up what's left, and eat EVERYTHING but the weave. Troy I ain't studying Sara. I ain't heard that one in a while....lol. I reminds me of old times when Moms used to take me down south to visit relatives. For just a fraction of a second I pictured myself acting up looking for attention from the old folks only for them smile and say, "Chile, you know ain't nobody stud'n you".

I read this from Cynique.... And I look at Farrakhan who's 83 and just gave a major speech a few days ago in Detroit. And I look at Dick Gregory who is also in his 80s, still giving lectures, and is up on every major event still impacting Black America...and it all not only makes me wonder but gives me hope. I wonder will God bless me to make it to and beyond that age range, and I hope that if He does I would have the clarity of mind that Cynique, Farrakhan, and Dick and so many others have to articulately express myself and engage in meaningful convesation. When I was in my 30s I used to work with a woman who was 73 and I would often tease her about her age but I would do it along with mild flirting and admiration mixed in. She used to be a school teacher...very smart....snappy. And at 73 she was still smarter and quicker than most of the younger people on the job, especially when it came to things not requiring a computer. I don't know if it's because I'm getting older, or because society is changing...but 70 and 80 year olds today don't seem to be anything like they were when I was a kid. They seem more lively and youthful.

Chasitie I did not know that about the origin of the word "cop" Thank you @Pioneer1 ! You're more than welcome. Another bit of info..... If you look the term Police Officer....it's actually related to the term POLICY OVER SEER. Note how similar they sound. Miss Sour Grapes Sara One more bit of deflection like this and we'll know you're interested in neither convo nor sharing knowledge rather you're using this forum to fill up all that unproductive time you have on your hands. One more overly emotional response from you for statements directed at Xeon and WE'LL start believing that you and Xeon may infact be the same person....lol.

Sara You see Troy as ultra-effeminate because he was raised in a non-competitive household. I was responding to Pioneer's "observations" which implied your personal anecdote denoted you as ultra-feminine. *WARNING* STOP trying to whip up anger and animosity between Black men by accusing me of calling men I barely know and haven't even met in person "feminine" ! You really don't want to put yourself in the role of the proverbial "agent provocateur" who spreads lies among people to brew enmity between them.

Troy/CD I saw a similar situation of fatherlessness growing up in Detroit, but we were blessed to have both our mother AND father together in our household growing up. This was the late 70s to the early 90s, and at that time in the part of Detroit I grew up in about half of the kids had fathers still at home. Many were latch-key kids where BOTH parents had to work, but a good half still had both parents. Detroit, like Chicago, New York, and Atlanta had a lot of BLACK upper middleclass and working class neighborhoods where Black people did well and many were quite professional. Which is why the Cosby Show didn't seem "odd" to me, I didn't understand what the controversy was about until I LEFT Detroit and started traveling to other cities and saw how dismal so many Black people lived. But most of our cousins grew up in the ghetto with NO father. And so when they came to our home a lot of my cousins kind of looked at my father as a novelty and used him for advice and help. But I'm going to blame all of this on the fact that Black people in America have been either forced to or voluntarily decided to accept a system that CLEARLY wasn't designed by us or for us to base our male-female and familial relationships on...and the results of that decision have been devastating.

Cynique Everything that you pontificate about is anecdotal, Pioneer. Your "proof" takes the form of people you've known or incidents that you have personally observed over the years. Your generalizations are not objective but are simply your subjective interpretations which amount to nothing more than the "truth" as you see it, which is untested. I said nothing of PROOF. Just stated FACTS based on my observations. Which is anecdotal EVIDENCE to support my argument. You're right, my observations haven't been tested by you to determine how accurate they are...but if OTHERS (notably CD and Troy on this site alone) as well as countless men and women all over Black America have also noticed the same thing I speak of concerning Black boys being effeminized in this society....the EVIDENCE (anecdotal or otherwise) presented is too overwhelming for even a CYNIC (or Cinque) to dismiss. Have you ever been in prison? If these men were masculine how did you know they were gay? Just because they had a "bitch" doesn't mean they were gay and if they were the "bitch", it is more likely they'd be acting effeminate. It would make more sense to simply speculate that while in prison, out of desperation, many masculine men engage in homosexual behavior, but once they get out and have access to women again, they revert to their straight self. This is what an "observer" once told me. No, I've never been incarcerated by the grace and blessings of God, but I've known people who have been. And I've also had a job that required me travel to one of the state prisons, so although I wouldn't exactly call it a "stompin' ground" I know a little something about the social behavior inside. And some of the observers and a few of the "participators" told me something a little different...lol. Many of the men they are calling "down low" are nothing but masculine homosexual men. Typical mildly aggressive men who just happen to find other men attractive. And the prison environment gives them just the excuse they need to have sex with other men without the stigma attached to being an openly gay man on the outside. It's not rocket science. They wanted to do it all along and now they have an excuse to engage. Some are being raped...but that's not the majority. It's the same with many priests in the Catholic church and some other religions. Homosexuality has existed in the clergy for centuries. If a gay men grew up in a society where homosexuality wasn't tolerated, what else could he do when the community starts pressuring him to get married and produce children? He joins the priesthood and pretends to be celibate and "holy". It's funny how holy people can be when it comes to abstaining from something they didn't want to do anyway...lol. Which reminds me of another point........ It's funny to hear some women point to their male friends who are gay and applaud them for how "respectful" they are and how much of a "gentleman" they are because they don't stare at women, hit on women, or pressure them or sex. I find my self constantly reminding them, uh....that's because he probably doesn't WANT sex from you or any other woman. How can you praise someone for having the discipline not to do something they never wanted to do in the first damn place?

Perhaps....I made the mistake a lot of environmentalists do when discussing global warming. It focused people too much on "warming" which allowed skeptics to poke too many holes in their theory, especially in the winter. But when they started calling it "climate change", people understand their arguments better. So, perhaps I should correctly say HEAVY METAL poisoning rather than focusing on lead. And it should also be pointed out that heavy metal poisoning includes problems that come from not only the lead in most urban water supplies but also the mercury from vaccines and the paint in old apartments and houses in the inner cities. As far as your examples of those living in the same areas and not affected...... We know lead CAUSES excessive violence and poor academic performance in the same way the smoking CAUSES lung cancer. Meaning, just as every single person who smokes doesn't get lung cancer, it seems to target those who are more suseptable to it..... We also know that every single person exposed to lead and other heavy metals aren't severely affected by it, but those who are suseptable are. It should also be pointed out that poor nutrition increases the negative effects of heavy metal poisoning because there are certain nutrients and vitamins that if the body is deficient in them the body confuses the lead and mercury molecule for these vitamins and absorbs them. Most immigrants don't share the same poor diet as AfroAmericans in a given community, nor do most of them consume the alcohol and drugs that so many AfroAmericans in the innercity consume. All of this has an effect on not only the differences in behavior itself but the suseptability of these various groups. I used to live in the West Coast. I even stayed in San Diego briefly (only a few weeks) and used to ride that Orange Line trolley through South East "Deigo"...lol. Mexican gangs on the West Coast are MORE violent than the Black gangs are, the media just doesn't focus on them as much because of an agenda. It's the same in Phoenix and Chicago....the Latino gangs are just as if not more violent, but the media gives them a pass. And quite frankly, Black people tend to be too hard on themselves when it comes to self-critique. As much killing....slaughtering...as is going on in the Middle East and Latin America you rarely hear Latinos and Arabs berating themselves for "killing eachother" as much as AfroAmericans.

Troy I don't know about that one @Pioneer I'd be willing to bet this is exceedingly rare; like 4 standard deviations for men with those characteristics. Well, let me put it this way..... I've known men who were married with children AND had girlfriends on the side who talked with a lisp and some behaved in a feminine fashion and you'd think they were gay. Infact, the rapper Ice-T talks with a lisp and gets his hair done...and claims to be a ladies man. Now perhaps these men just used their wives and girlfriends as a front to hide thier homosexuality. Or perhaps they were BI-sexual and went both ways. However, without absolutely knowing who they were sleeping with I'd have to take it that some straight men have feminine demeanors just like some straight women have "butch" or manish demeanors. Infact, I've MET straight women who loved men but were very aggressive and man-like in the way they carried themselves. Cynique Most of what I'm giving is my OBSERVATION. It's what I've actually SEEN myself over the years in this society. So while it may not be absolute science....it's more than just opinion. Unless a person is lying or hallucinating, what they see/observe should count as fact rather than opinion. Gender and sex are different because gender (masculine/feminine) has more to do with role playing and social customs, while sex (male/female) is more mechanical having to do with genitalia, secondary sexual characteristics, and edocrinology (hormones). You can switch genders back and forth all day long, but outside of an actual operation you can switch your sex (male/female) about as easy as switching your race (African/Asian)...lol. Finally, Sitting up straight doesn't make a boy feminine. But trying to force a boy to sit with his legs shut together squeezing his already sensative and developing penis and testicles is down right inconsiderate and cruel. What if all toilets were taken from school bathrooms and girls were forced to urinate standing up because that was the "proper" way? See how ridiculous that sounds? It's just as ridiculous to force boys to do something they weren't designed to do. Sara I had decided to leave this convo alone since we're dealing with pure opinion and not quantifiable fact. However, the arrogance of your above "opinion" is rather mind boggling and your conclusion that those who disagree with your OPINION are unintelligent, well..... smh As I told Cynique. Most of what I said comes from what I've OBSERVED in this society. Observation is a key component in the Scientific Method for establishing facts. So what I've said is more than just opinion, much of it is absolute FACT based on personal observation that can be applied to specific individuals. I never said you were unintelligent for disagreeing with me. But if you're feeling GUILTY about disagreeing with me, it's probably your pre-frontal cortex nagging you for ignoring it.....lol.

Sara While I am skeptical about some of the social analyses presented by CD and Pioneer, I am so proud of them for being 'doers' and not just complainers, for being creative parts of the solution rather than the problem. Thank you. For a long time I WAS just a complainer. But as I found my self getting older, I wanted to see a change while I was young enough to enjoy it....so I got busy.

Is an economic system entrenched with white racism directly responsible for black American dysfunction in 2016? The answer seems to be advertised in the very question itself. If the system is ENTRENCHED with White racism..... Then regardless of whether it's 2016, 1916, or 1816......the system will still produce a state of dysfunction or malfunction for it's Black victims. It's like picking up a loaded revolver hand-gun from the Civil War era and waving it around at people saying, "Relax...it's 2016 not 1864 !" But I must admit that I do find it quit sad that neither of you mentioned the impact lead poisoning is having and has had on Black urban communities and how that just may be the key to understanding much of the crime, dysfunction, and academic issues. I mean, there is a clear link between lead poisoning and social dysfunction. And people (most of whom are Black) living in urban areas show high levels of lead in their blood. Should we really be looking any further?

Xeon Well, as you said, most black republicans are very intelligent and well educated. They are not stupid nor are they the source of the sub cultural dysfunctional and chaos that is a virulent malignancy in segments of black America. Although I personally do not share many aspects of their politics -I think it is very misguided and erroneous to assume they are naive or gullible. They just see things differently. I do not agree with the idea that because someone has black skin they must conform to a particular rigid dogma for no other reason than having black skin. Yes, I said most are intelligent and educated. However education and intelligence doesn't necessarily save one from being a FOOL. A fool lacks the good judgement to effectively USE those smarts and because of this they are constantly being taken advantage of and exploited by those with better judgement. Such is the case with most Black Republicans who constantly fall for the lies and rhetoric about self-reliance and morality the Republican establishment brandishes without attempting to exert any effort to live up to their claims. Except for a handful of CLOWN who are elected to local offices, most Black Republicans get absolutely NOTHING from the party. NOTHING. Despite the Republican party's claims to value education, church, freedom from excessive law enforcement and government control...... They refuse to help Blacks (regardless of their political affiliation) with education, healthcare, home ownership, legal assistance, suppport from the NRA, funding for churches., or anything else valued by Conservatives. I dismiss this inane idea that black people must be monolithic in their ideology. For whites (and other non-blacks) - it’s perfectly acceptable to have diametric beliefs and opinions. Ann Coulter and Amy Goodman are both white females -but their ideology is 180 degrees opposite! Sean Hannity and Tim Wise are both white males -but their politics are completely polar! No one says anything about the radical differences in ideology and politics that exists between whites (or other non-blacks). I’ve never heard Tim Wise being called "self-hating" or Ann Coulter labeled a "sell out" by those who disagree with her. But with Negroes –it’s just the opposite! They are preemptively denied the latitude of diverse opinions and beliefs that others (races and ethnicities) enjoy. This is sad and indefensible…. Yes but the difference between those Whites mentioned in the examples you gave is all of them can support different beliefs yet still look intelligent for the choices they made. Why? Because both White Republicans AND White Democrats are actually GETTING SOMETHING out of thier political affiliation. They may belong to two different parties, but BOTH are benefiting from those parties regardless of the differences. With Blacks it's more one-sided. They actually benefit from the Democrat party while the vast majority of Black Republicans get NOTHING from the Republican party. I'm not a Democrat, but atleast Black Democrats get money, prominent positions, government contracts..hell, the Democrats elected President Barack Obama! Besides empty rhetoric, what are Black people getting from the Republicans that ANY should join the party????? It's STUPID to belong to any organization that ain't doing a damn thing for you.

Xeon Sarah Bland was not shot nor killed by the police. Her demise occurred while held in custody in the Waller County jail. The sheriffs dept runs the country jails -not the police. Thanks for pointing out what I already know. Now let me point out something you may NOT know. The term "cop" comes from the COPPER badge worn by most law enforcement officals. Take a look at the badge of the Waller County Sherrif's Department where Ms Bland died: What COLOR is that star? Deputies are considered "cops" too whether inside or outside of jail. Sara Sandra Bland was not shot down like a dog in the streets by the Texas cop. Now what happened to her in jail is something different. But then, we aren't talking about "killed while incarcerated" are we? Well I'm not sure.... When you said "murder by cop" I didn't know your definition of murder is only when a life is taken OUTSIDE of an actual building. Cops kill blacks in the North. It has been going on since at least the 1950's (first caught a whiff of it from a rerun of a Dick Cavett, Merv Griffith, somebody Show where Dick Gregory brought it to my attention). Blacks in the South are more likely to be killed by ordinary white citizens than white cops. Not so in the north. To repeat: You stated your belief that many of the blacks killed by cops committed "suicide by cop." If that is the case, is it your belief that most black lynchings were "suicide by white mob?" Nice try. But I'm not going let you try to take the focus off of and wiggle your way out of your statement of "murder by cop" being confined to the North. Take a look at this site that maps cop killings of Black people in 2015: http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/ I see a diversity of regions that includes the North, South, West Coast....... All it takes is a quick 45 second search on Google to refute your claim that police shootings of Black people are "confined" to the North.

Guest Com' on Sense Oh guest, come on......... With all that common sense you have you should KNOW that being HIV positive has NOTHING to do with "access" to health-care. Yes, proper treatment will prevent your viral load from overwhelming your immune system, but either way except for a miracle you're still HIV positive. So how would "access to healthcare" or the lack there of effect one's HIV status? Being EXPOSED to the virus is the only thing that determines how much of a population is infected, not the amount of healthcare they have access to once exposed. To draw an analogy...... If I point to an impoverished city and find out that half of the people in that town came down with lung cancer, their diagnosis has NOTHING to do with their financial status. Their TREATMENT and ability to pay for it may, but that lack of proper treatment isn't what initially caused the cancer. They were exposed to something in the city that caused it. If half of the gay Black men in Atlanta are HIV positive while most of the gay White men are not, that means more gay Black men were EXPOSED to the virus . And there has to be a definate reason for this. By your own admission, you're still a student. So I hope you keep searching until you find the REAL reason for this. And perhaps you'll come back and share it with us.

CD To the average person who knows little about psychology or psychiatry this may seem like a bit of a stretch to connect lead contamination with violence and academic performance. It may even seem ridiculous. But I had an experience years ago with mercury poisoning that let me know how real the effects of metals poisoning can be. I was a healthy person and out of nowhere when the mercury levels accumulated in my body I started getting rashes, my muscles started jerking in spots, and I started having anxiety issues. After prayer and research I was blessed to find out what the problem was and removed it and I got better. Lead, mercury, arsenic...these metals can cause severe PSYCHOLOCIAL effects in people at low doses! At high doses....they kill you. At low does....they may give you depression, make you bi-polar, scizophrenic, hyper-aggressive, retarded, and a host of other problems and you may not directly tie to the metal poisoning itself. If you look at what's happening in the inner cities all over the nation where the pipes are old and outdated and look at the high rate of violence and poorly performing schools....it can't just be a coincidence. Nowhere in nature do you find stupid and violent constantly occupying the same space. One person may be slow, another may be violent....but to have so many residents in a limited area that are of both low intellect AND quick tempered???? That area is being poisoned! It is actually said that the Roman practice of putting lead in their wine to sweetin it actually lead to the fall of the Roman Empire because the population became increasingly volatile and began fighting and killing eachother until the empire collapsed from the inside.

I really think this re-discovery of so much lead contamination in the drinking water of urban areas around this nation may be a turning point for Black progress. It may provide many answers to a lot of the social, criminal, and academic problems that Black America has been facing for decades. For decades many of our social scientists, civil rights leaders, and others have been trying to figure out the root cause of so many of the problems plaguing the inner cities of America....perhaps we may now have a leading suspect.

Troy I remember as a kid in the 6th grade I was put out of class because the teacher said I kept slouching instead of sitting "properly". She kept pointing at a girl and telling me to sit with my legs squeezed together like her. I wasn't articulate enough at the time to explain to her why it is highly uncomfortable and in some cases painful for boys to sit like that, I just wouldn't do it. And when I went to the Principle's office she also kept telling me to do the same and I finally told her that I couldn't sit like that because "I got something down there that won't let me do it". As I said, a lot of boys are being punished just for being boys....most of whom by nature are biologically hardwired to be aggressive and push boundaries. But Black boys seem to be especially targeted in a White female dominated educational system. 　 While some of these changes may be liberating, most people are just confused, as the culture is in a constant state of flux. What is wrong today will be perfectly acceptable tomorrow. That's why I've decided to take a NEW approach social acceptance and say we should tolerate almost EVERYTHING in society as long as it's between consenting adults and doesn't directly harm anyone other than the practitioner. 　 CD The irony is that the video you posted of the gay dude is an exaggeration of the way women walk. Women don't even behave like that. This is true. It seems to me like he was going out of his way to get attention. I've noticed that some feminine acting Black men behave as such as if to tell society, "I just soft and silly, nobody to worry about. I pose absolutely no harm to you." Kind of like Black men who won't stand at a bus stop or train station if there is a White woman there alone for fear that she may be afraid of HIM. You know the more I study, the more I realize that there has always been a large gay population in the Black community. I mean many of our major writers were gay, but they weren't so feminine that it was easy to decipher what their orientation might be. That is the problem... gay now seems to mean that you have to carry the characteristics of the sex you are attracted to. Men act more like women and women act more like men. I've always wanted to ask someone gay why this is necessary if being homosexual is about the attraction to someone else. Why does a person forego the stereotypical qualities associated with their sex? I don't ever ask because these questions always lead to confrontation and I'm not that interested in fighting through the confrontation to ask, lol. There is a gay population in EVERY race and nationality just like there are LEFT-HANDED people. That's why when that Iranian president came to America a few years ago and claimed that they didn't have gays in his nation (Iran) like in America the audience nearly laughed him off the stage. At various times in history it may unsafe or seen as unacceptable in society, so you may not hear about them....but they are there. In societies where homosexuality is forbidden and punished, a lot of homosexuals join the CLERGY and become priests or nuns to help hide their lack of interest in the opposite sex. But... I really do want to know why a gay woman takes on the "male" persona? And why the gay man takes on the "female" persona? (I do know that not all gay people do this.) I do believe that in many cases it's NATURAL for some straight people to just operate in a way more common to the opposite sex, so you'll see a straight man who likes women but has a lisp and bashful demeanor. But as far as the exaggerated masculine or feminine behavior...I think it's often a homosexual person trying to make a SOCIAL STATEMENT. A lesbian doesn't have to put on a wife-beater and tatoo herself all up and sag and spit to be a lesbian, all she has to do is go out and get a woman. But she'll do all of that as a way of drawing attention and letting either society at large or a targeted audience know this is who she is and how she gets down. A Black man who grows up in a hard ghetto may exaggerate female characteristics to let the local thugs know that he poses no threat and thus doesn't need to tested or challenged. Cynique I thought the issue was that straight black men were unconsciously starting to act a tad effeminate. That's different from flamboyant behavior on the part of black men who are actually gay. Obviously the flaming male in the video is flaunting his gayness but this has nothing to do with a trend toward straight black men losing their masculine demeanor. Unless this distinction is made, everybody is not on the same page. Well I'm not sure about the various points other people were pushing but MY point was that modern academia seems to make it hard for masculine Black men (gay or straight) There are plenty of gay Black men who are masculine. Spending a week of observation of any state penatintary will prove that statement. It's not so much the gay or straight Black man whom society fears, it's the MASCULINE Black man (aggressive, bold, risk taking) that seems to be often targeted. But as far as the flamboyancy....... As I told CD, that's usually a gay man acting in an ultra feminine way just to get attention and make a social statement. It's purposely exaggerated for that effect.

Sara So 30% of young black boys in high school and 30% of young black men in college are not gay, rather lisping ultra-effeminates? ???? Did you even COMPREHEND ANYTHING of what I just told you? First of all, where are you coming up with this "30%" business? I didn't mention any percentages.... Second, whether you agree or not with what I said....if you UNDERSTOOD what I said the you wouldn't be applying the same percentage to both high school AND collegiate males in your question. I said that there is a HIGHER percentage of effeminate Black men in college than in highschool because the weeding out process prevents many masculine men from even making it TO the college level. How many young men can function successfuly in an environment where they're EXPECTED to suppress their natural inclinations and act like eunuchs? Third, there is a DIFFERENCE between men who are effeminate and men who are gay just as there is a DIFFERENCE between women who are masculine and women who are lesbian. One is how you ACT....the other is who you LIKE. I have no idea about how much of the demographic GAY Black males make up on high school and college campuses because I don't go around asking men who they're sleeping with. But I can clearly SEE how men behave and carry themselves so it's easier to come to my conclusions regarding thier demeanor being feminine or masculine. To say that a young black boy or man is effeminate (and ultra? WTF???) because he's well-spoken, mannerable, civil, and subjugates his thug impulses to earn a diploma or degree makes about as much sense as a female looking to marry a dope, pimped-out bad azz who goes to work every day, pays his bills on time and takes care of his kids. I agree. Now if I've gotten the wrong of it, please, give an example of a "masculine" young black male and define his behavior vis a vis an ULTRA-effeminate young black male.... who is not gay. It appears that you HAVE gotten it wrong so...... Example of an MASCULINE young Black man talking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_ZmM7zPLyI 　 Example of an EFFEMINATE young Black man walking and talking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS9raqeoiks You can see a clear difference in how these two men carry themselves. If you look at the brother in the second video, a good example of feminine behavior is the exaggerated sway of his hips. Why would a man's hips "sway" when he walks? Mechanically it makes no sense. CD Like you...I don't understand how Sara can live in this society and actually QUESTION my statement about so many effeminate Black men occupying positions in both academic institutions as well as corporate America. It's one thing to be tolerant of those who are different than us, but it's another thing to turn a blind eye to it and pretend that it doesn't exist and is all a delusion. A few Black men being feminine in their demeanor isn't a problem, it's natural. But when you start seeing the percentage grow higher and higher in society you MUST ask yourself why is this happening and why now? Intelligent people closely observe their environment and carefully note any changes.

CD Yeah, I know when it comes to practicality it's all about the detail. I think some people are just naturally better at detail while others are best imagining things in their entirety. This is why TEAM WORK is so important, bringing these skills together so everyone can work in harmony doing what they are good at. Personally, I've found that when it comes to many of our people you have to first SELL them an idea with the method of big and broad visionary description so they can get a clear picture of what you'd like to accomplish before they decide to contribute. I can walk up to a group and say let's build entire districts of greenhouses growing millions of tons of produce a year. But I just leave it at that; people would scratch thier heads and ask "what the hell for?" But when I give it to them in the context of helping to feed a massive city of millions with a dense population so that they can be more self-sustaining, then it begins to make more sense as to why we should build an entire neighborhood of high-rise greenhouses.