Pioneer1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZMCfxWN_X3Q I heard some others talking about it on the Sunday Morning News shows a couple weeks ago. Why are so many WHITE MEN interested in the rebuilding of America's blackest major city while Black folks all but ignore it?

I agree. Whites do tend to be more efficient and have an actual PURPOSE for why the steal and murder which in many cases makes their crimes more predictable and thus less scary. Also, it's been my observation that unless they are drug addicts most Whites who engage in crime have a definite purpose with which to use the resources they're killing and stealing to get like to defend some political/religious cause or to feed their family or buy some property. But compare that to the brother on the street with the doo-rag on who just wakes up half-high and decides to grab a gun and rob his friend and then rob a gas station on a whim just to grab $300 for more weed to smoke not giving a damn about feeding his kids or owning anything. Unlike the White criminal, he's not using the resources he's gotten from the crimes he's committed to actually improve his lot. Now I know you don't care whether or not Whites are afraid. But that's probably because you are retired, guaranteed a check in the mail, and not in the workforce so you don't have to rely on them hiring you or reviewing your application for jobs. When you still have to defend on someone for your sustenance you MUST care how they feel about you because any change in their feelings will have a direct impact on you.

Cyniqe & Troy You're comparing apples with oranges. You''re comparing a highly advanced highly organized system of warfare and organized crime.... -one that is FAR MORE IMMMORAL and causes FAR MORE DEATH AND DESTRUCTION- .....with a bunch of disorganized illiterate young punks who go around terrorizing their own neighborhoods. The former is advanced civilization gone wrong, but the latter is just plain uncivilized. Within the context of an advanced civilization you have enough positives to outweigh any negative images which is why Japan still gladly works with and allies with the United States despite the fact that she all but destroyed that nation...as opposed to doing business with the nation of Haiti who never fired a shot at Japan but have little to nothing to offer in terms of international relations. Atleast when it comes to organized white-collar crimes, high-crimes, and war crimes....or what you two call "real crime"...the perpetrators are targetting OTHER GROUPS. Atleast the perpetrarors and their families have a respect for eachother and they can walk down their own streets at night, send their own children to safe schools, and have an intellectual discussion with eachother. Most of these clowns in the ghetto are victimizing their own people for extremely limited resources. And for what? To feed themselves and their families and build schools and hospitals? Hell no...... To smoke more dope, do more drinking and partying, and more ho-hopping before they end up killed or back in the pen because that's what they expect their future to be anyway. The REAL criminals are much worse....I'll give you that. And they will pay for their crimes against humanity either in this life and/or in the next. But the petty criminals..... The boys in the hood are only a menace to themselves and their own community which is why the White wealthy majority in this nation doesn't give a damn how savage they become as long as they stay among their own. So you're right, Whites have no reason to be afraid. Perhaps it's OTHER BLACK PEOPLE who should be afraid.

No question that for the most part the war on drugs in a war on AfroAmericans. Infact it goes deeper than that...... It's clear that racist workingclass Whites didn't like the fact that so many Black pepole were accumulating wealth by working in factories and other labor jobs in America's cities and that anger created an atmosphere where most of those manufacturing jobs could be moved out out of the inner cities and eventually overseas. Then they moved the dope in for young men to sell and began to SELECTIVELY TARGET those whom they choose to prosecute and imprison. Those are facts. But this is the question.... Black people have suspected since the 60s and KNOWN since 1996 that these covert groups were bringing dope into the hood. So why are so many still selling it KNOWING that it's a trick and trap to destroy the community and get them thrown in jail? See, I believe this is merely a SYMPTOM of a much greater problem. This is a very sad thing to say bro...... You might ban my from this site after saying this but.......... It's become clear to me that many of our people are simply intellectually deficient. In other words too many are just plain STUPID and can't think well enough to avoid the tricks and traps set out to destroy them. White racists in power know this and they take advantage of them. If it's not drugs, it's AIDS, or the flood in New Orleans, or some other tool used to destroy them that they can't seem to think clearly enough to escape. I mentioned this before but I believe intelligent educated Black people have a responsibility to look out for those of our people who...whether it's a minority or majority of them...can't look out for themselves.

The George Zimmerman trial and especially the peripheral affairs that surrounded it has really forced me to re-evaluate my political and social ideaology. I'm not talking about the behavior of George Zimmerman himself. That's an easy one....he murdered that boy. But more specifically I'm talking about: -The defense of Rachel Jeantel's disgraceful testimony by so many responsible Black people. -During the trial when it came to listening to public responses, I saw so many Black people who seemed not to be able to talk properly or express themselves adequately despite the fact that they were born and raised in this nation and it was embarassing. -The fact that like TOO MANY Black families today Trayvon came from a broken home where his mother (Sabrina Fulton) had a different last name than he or his father and they all lived separately with his father staying with his girlfriend. -All the marching and crying and shouting over an innocent boy who was murdered by only a fraction of that response for the thousands of Black youth that have been murdered by eachother in the ghettos of America. But that was just the last straw for that poor camel, lol. That was just the pebble that tipped the scale. My reconsidering my political views had been a long time in the making. The rampant immorality, criminality, illiteracy, and ignorance contributing to the deterioration of the Black community, and worst of all the lack of adequate response of decent Black leaders TO this deterioration..... ~indeed, the willingness of so many Black leaders who KNOW BETTER to instead of coming together to strategically remove the negative elements of the Black community in order to make it stronger have decided to DEFEND so many of the negative elements at any cost~ ....has contributed to me re-thinking my political positions on a variety of subjects. Am I a Republican? Hell no. Them, the Tea Party, and those radicals who didn't like the moral restrictions of the Republican Party and left who now call themselves "Libertarians".....seem to harbor a right-wing facism that I could never be apart of. But right now the Democrats and Liberals don't look to attractive either because they seem to be supporting every immoral stupid agenda EXCEPT the ones they were founded on. Liberal USED TO mean you supported Black people's rights, women's rights, and labor unions. Now it means you support homosexuals getting married, secular/atheism, broken families, illegal immigration, ect.....you gotta take the whole package now. Even a lot of so-called Civil Rights leaders who call themselves "Reverend" are going along with some of the immoral garbage that Democrats have attached themselves to. *I support Universal Health Care But I don't support ObamaCare *I support women's rights to be equal But I support traditional gender roles for men and women *I'm against the mandatory drug laws and 3 strikes But I'm a very strong supporter of tough law enforcement *I believe in corporal punishment both at home AND in school But I believe the state should step in and take children away in abusive homes *I don't believe in the death penalty But I believe certain crimes demand a physical punishment So what am I........ Conservative? Conservative with a Liberal leaning? Liberal with a Conservative leaning? Reformed Liberal? I may not be exactly sure of where I stand politically but one things is for sure, there are a lot of Black men out there who think like me and we've been growing for years.

Now you know you're coming up, lol. The next step is to start demanding royalties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9rXXcsXX3c&feature=player_detailpage

Interesting point...... Although I know most police departments tend to stop Black men more than other demographic groups believe it or not I hadn't really looked at it from that point of view. However, this alleviates my dismay only a little bit because from what I've observed in America so far I'm still convinced that too many Black youth have been given over to a "criminal mind" that seems to JUSTIFY in the minds of too many the rough behavior they get from the police. When you as a White person grow up in a society where you see Black men....not just on television but in REAL LIFE....bragging about who they busted in the mouth, bragging about how much dope they sold, walking around slinging their arms and rapping to themselves up and down the street, bragging about being a thug or criminal. These White boys who see this don't erase all of these images when they join the police force, they keep them in their mind if only in the subconscious. Police officers come from the same population pool that sounds the rest of America, they are human being prone to the same prejudices despite their training. This doesn't justify shooting an innocent unarmed man in the back then handcuffing him ofcourse, but the criminal mindedness and criminal history of so many of our young brothers put things in context.

((grin))

Dr West is a brilliant defender of the poor and of human rights. I saw him on Real Time with Bill Maher the other day and he constantly makes his position clear that as a Black man and as a Christian he loves and supports Obama but feels it's his duty (and indeed it is) to call him out on some of his policies. In the tradition of most great scholars and philosophers he should have a large following of disciples dedicated to soaking up every bit of knowledge and understanding that drips from his lips. A fraternity or "order" should be started and named after him.....seriously.

Bill O'Reilly is a right wing hack........... But you know what, he's right., Many White people ARE afraid of AfroAmericans. But that's only part of the problem, other races are afraid of Black people too. . Not only do AfroAmericans have problems with White police, but too often our people have problems with the Chinese, Koreans, Arabs, and Pakistanis who own businesses in Black neighborhoods. Most of their problems don't come from the Black nationalists who resent them owing property in Black neighborhoods but from their regular customers who routinely try to cheat and steal from them I was warned that as I got older I would become more conservative. Well..... The fact is, it's the ERRATIC and often VIOLENT behavior (in actions and in speech) that so many AfroAmericans display on a regular basis in public that is the basis for these feelings. Too many of our people are actually feeding the very racism so many complain of. How many other people do you see sitting around trainstations, malls, and other public places with grins on thier faces LOUDLY bragging about who they fucked up the other day or who will get their head busted wide open if they didn't pay that money back? I don't hear Asians talking like that in public. How many other women do you see growling and cussing at their children or calling eachother "bitch" on a regular basis and talking about who they're going to beat up? What other women act like this? They'd consider it shameful to display such masculine and un-motherly behavior. And being from Detroit I can say with confidence that the culture of Black people actually IS in part responsible for the condition of the city. The crime, the violence, the "I don't give a fuck" attitude, the laziness....all of that has contributed to Detroit being in the state that it's in today. Wealthy White suburbanites just sit back and take advantage of a weakness that already existed. It also contributed to Washington DC, parts of Chicago, and parts of New York being where THEY are or were until immigrants from Asia move in and take over cleaning up the mess that so many of our people made. The time for making excuses are over. Having been through out most of this nation, I can safely say that our people have a VERY serious problem and it's one only God and ourselves can solve. We need to clean up house and take responsibility for our behavior and condition in this nation. Decent Black men and women (especially the men) need to start standing up more and demanding better of our people and especially our youth.

"I'M JUST WILD ABOUT HARREEEEEYY...... AND HARRY'S WILD ABOUT MEEEEEE....." Be quiet lady, nobody is making "unflattering presumptions" about Mr Brown I just asked the brother did he ever engage in dialog or discuss the topics of the threads he starts....lol.

Cynique Oh...you're sleeping! No wonder you have such a hard time trying to understand what I tell you, lol. BTW when have I ever denied being religious? I said months ago in another thread that one doesn't necessarily NEED religion in order to believe in and worship God. That doesn't necessarily translate to being non-religious....... Except when you put on a pair of Cynique's special 3-D glasses......lol....that magically projects every word and imagine them to jump out of the screen to attack. Booooiioooiiiinnng!

When I see the trailer for that movie on television I think of the threads you've done on this tragedy. I haven't seen the movie yet and it appears to have been done by a talented young brother. However what I do find a little disturbing is the HISTORY of Mr.Grant's life. According to the film he sold dope, had a trouble life, and even went to prison. Now although this doesn't necessarily make him a "bad person" and CERTAINLY doesn't warrant him being tossed about and shot in the back by transit cops......it doesn't look good. It kind of "muddy's" the image of him as a martyr. I'm not sure if these are actual facts, or if the director used a bit of his poetic license to add to Mr. Grant's character but it certainly doesn't look good for so many Black victims of racism and police brutality to have records of drug involvement and criminality themselves. Outside of Trayvon Martin, how many times do we have an.....I guess "opportunity" for lack of a better term....of a CLEAR CUT case of a decent Black man with no criminal background who was doing absolutely nothing wrong being hunted down and shot point blank by the police? Why do so many of these cases end up with the victim being smeared with a shady background?

Sometimes when I'm watching a discussion on television about the Zimmerman trial I look at a clock and actually time the amount of minutes it takes for a conservative to mention CHICAGO and how many Black youth were killed during the past week. It's there talking point and they use it in almost every discussion to offset the focus on racism and distract from the topic. They do the same thing with the word "nigger". Everytime a famous White person is caught on tape using the word and they can't wiggle their way out or deny it, their defenders often point to the fact that so many Black youth use it also as an excuse or distraction. I remember when Don Imus called Black female basketball players some "nappy headed hoes" instead of dealing with THAT, many started pointing to the rappers who used that word often. All the more reason like Malcolm said Black people must be analytical enough (or keen/sharp enough) to be able to figure out the tricks and lies and deceptions their enemy uses against them. But on another tip, I MUST say that in the eyes of most people who reside in America of any race.....Black people will looked "uncredible" if they raise hell over the Zimmerman trial while scores of Black people are being killed by their own everyday. Yes it's a conservative talking point. But it's also the truth and it must be dealt with.

I think the title of this thread mixes apples with oranges. It starts off focusing on one's understanding of divination and then focuses on one's beliefs in magic and in my opinion divination and magic are different. Divination is often confused with magic when....although they may interwine at times...are 2 difference subjects. Cynique brings up a good point that we must first ascertain a proper definition of Divination before deciding whether or not it makes sense. The dictionary defines divination as seeking knowledge by supernatural means. However "magic" has 2 definitions...... -Controling nature by SUPER-natural means -A form of entertainment based on illusions. Divination makes sense to me in the sense that I acknowledge it's existence even if I'm not sure how it operates. I believe in magic too. Both definitions. But I also believe there are a lot of frauds out there.

It appears that every Black site I've been on has one. Just like every Black neighborhood seems to have a crazy old man who messes with young women and never gets slapped, and a jokester or signifier who runs his mouth a lot and messes with people but never gets beat up, lol. The older I get the more I notice commonalities and patterns in society. Perhaps one of the keys to success is in learning and working within these patterns.

....with HIM????? Cynique Good call......because I found it HILLARIOUS. For reasons you may not have even considered, lol. I would have appreciated pictures as well had things progressed further...lol.

Troy We certainly need a moral code. For years I've been trying to sit Black people down in various discussion circles to hammer out a code that most of us can agree on but talks often start breaking down (especially between males and females) when we start getting to sexual subjects and what should be permitted.

I'm sorry I was posting in a hurry.............. What I MEANT to say was: "Just like being religious doesn't necessarily make one spiritual....BEING SPIRITUAL doesn't necessarily make one more moral." Cynique So being judgemental makes one's mind "finite" huh??? No man (or woman) is an island. EVERYTHING another person does effects other people in the community they live in either directly or indirectly so the Western concept of individualism (I'm doing my own thing so mind your own business) can be considered not only flawed by immature in the contexts of human history. People MUST be judgemental in order to live a safe and successful life. Ofcourse making some judgements (like assuming a Black teenager wearing a hoodie and walking slow must be a burglar) are erroneous, but most are done in good faith and are based on past experiences and observations that lead to success. Now you talk about good people who are trying to maintain and live their lives in gang infested deteriorating neighborhoods...... It COULD be argued that part of being righteous...atleast for men....is not just minding your own business and trying to maintain in a corrupt environment but to go farther and ESTABLISH safety and order in a chaotic community. You often "get at" me for being too self-righteous and judgemental but it's this "don't tell me what to do" or "I'm doing my own thing" attitude that has allowed so much of the Black community to deteriorate in the first place where decent people often have to put up living around "hellish" conditions. Perhaps being judgemental isn't even enough. Maybe one should go a step farther and start laying the law down in the neighborhoods like the FOI and even some of the Black Panthers used to do to establish order and peace in the community for the common good.

Cynique Ahhhh..... Now see, that was just down right mean. Now what on Earth would possess you to talk to someone in such a manner? Here a Black man comes in to try to give you some advice and help you out and THIS is how you treat him? Since you ain't going to invite him over......., Maybe YOU'RE the one who might have to end up putting a sock...or something...lol...in "it".

Cynique Now Cynique........... I'd like you to think. Think reeeaally hard....lol Do you know of ANY Black people who are (not just religious and go to Church a lot) but actually practice RIGHTEOUS CONDUCT like not engaging in or threatening violence, telling the truth, giving to charity, who are catching hell. Do you know of ANY who practice these virtues but yet are still having a hard time in life? Just like being religious doesn't necessarily make one spiritual....being moral doesn't necessarily make one moral. Sure Black people are very spiritual....but how moral are we? The Black community not only in America but outside of America have been engaging in murder (of eachother), theft (from eachother) adultery, rape, worshipping materialism, and exploitation (of their own). Morality is in one's BEHAVIOR and SPEECH, not in how much incense they burn or how many dreams they can remember and interpret.

Cynique I was going to tease you and tell you to hook up with and give him a "69" for his 69th year of life.....lol. But upon learning from you that he has a wife who apparently is suffering from some sort of dementia, I say leave the bastid alone. I admire single players. I especially admire men over 60 who are still "bout it bout it"....lol. But I DON'T admire or even care too much for adulterers who took an oath to be with their spouse. Instead of feeling sorry for his wife, he'd rather be out chasing crazy ass combative women who can't stop biting and scratching....lol....what's HIS problem???

I was going to say the same thing about protesting. Millions of people protested the Iraq War (2003), I remember seeing a crowd in downtown San Francisco that looked like it was nearly a half million people gathered together. .....but Bush still went on in anyway so what good did it do? After all the wars he started, now he's down at his Texas home chilling. Protests worked better during a time when many of our leaders were moral and felt atleast SOME obligation to answer to the people. Now, they answer to there corporate sponsors and don't give a damn what the people (even those who vote for them) have to say. Black people need to focus on gaining economic power and political power then use the brains God gave us to build our OWN communities/societies (within America) instead of expecting others to build them for us. I'm not trying to change the subject of the thread to that of one of religion, but.... I've said it time and time again that the more immoral and unethical or "ghetto acting" Black people become the less power our people will have no matter what they try. The power that brought our community through slavery and Jim Crow all the way to economic and social prosperity from the 50s throught the 80s was "soul power". The power of our righteousness and morality. The fact that most of our people just wouldn't do certain things or engage in certain behavior. The more Black atheists, homosexuals, criminals, thugs, and all other manner of degenerate madness you see in our community the more you're going to see weakness and empty ineffective solutions built upon faulty logic doomed to failure from their conceptions. You can't cry and complain about the behavior of Whites toward you when you are just as wicked and evil as they are...but not as smart. If our people want to be successful they MUST first stop trying to imitate so-called "intellectual" White folks and acknowledge that there IS a God, then line themselve up with His universal laws. Take it or leave it alone.

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. I was wondering what happened with that case. (I was also wondering does Bitumelo/Harry Brown ever engage in actual DIALOG, lol.) I remember hearing about it months ago and that was an even CLEARER example or racist unjustified use of deadly force than the Trayvon Martin case and it seemed to have just disappeard and dropped right off the radar.