richardmurray

@Pioneer1 Black people from the black countries in the carribean or africa have developed anti expatriate movements towards black immigrants to the usa from their countries. Right now it is only incidents but I wonder if or when those movements will grow. ... I will rephrase more straight forward, groups of black people in black countries are growing who oppose the black people from those countries who immigrated to the usa In my opinion the answer to all three of your question is yes. What your suggesting I have heard offline other black folk suggest. the black community in the usa must display through using their collective action in the usa to merit getting a new land to do what they want. It is a system of merit applied to a collective. Historically, that is not how any people's got a new land. But I think the concept has value in a humanity where no new spaces exist on the only planet humans live on.

@frankster pork barrel:) History proves being elected has more than one way and at least one way doesn't involve being liked it all.

Just for the record @ProfD I was born and raised in the usa as well, as were too many of my forebears:)

Day 26 https://www.deviantart.com/hddeviant/art/Crow-26-Witchtember-2022-930946171

LUKE CAGE ON DEEP SPACE NINE chapter 1- free to read https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13028411/1/LUKE-CAGE-ON-DEEP-SPACE-NINE MY THOUGHTS AS I READ... I think Doctor bashir will say instead of "he seems to be made of...sterner stuff than most" the following: "His cellular regeneration or cell wall permeability is similar to what is in starfleet records for genetically modified humans though the tricorder is revealing something curious... he was born long before similar processes were standardized in medical records " Doctor bashir is lighthearted , likes jokes, but remember, he is a scientist in the federation and they are usually, when it comes to the scientific method, straight forward, near mechanical. ... your luke cage is quite comfortable in his initial shock. Your Odo I love when he said "a what" that is well done:) Your Odo is on point man. I like the quadlog between captain sisqo/odo/bashir/cage:) well done . When cage said "if I was him~" well done. that is luke cage:) Black unity , love it, timeless. Ahh.. fair enough explaining his ease with all this... it makes sense. "your quarters" not "some quarters" no big deal at all. I think instead of "In our time, discrimination between humans, based on ethnicity or gender, or any other factor is non-existant" Sisko will say :"In our time, discrimination between humans, based on ethnicity or gender, or any other factor is significantly negligible" I say this cause the augments, which can be considered a genetic gender, in the star trek timeline whether khan or bashir himself who is only lightly manipulated were treated unfairly for being what they are in various ways. And the maquis, can be considered a cultural ethnicity, they are born from starfleet and people in the federation who felt the federation betrayed its principles by not protecting to the fullest people of the federation who still lived in the border between the cardasians and the federation. It is like Anarchist in the usa or black militants in the usa. They are not visually different but they are culturally different in key ways. the culture of the federation is heavily set in the rule of law and by default the culture of the maquis is acting when the rule of law is not enough. And I think sisko will say that. He isn't as defensive for the federation as pakard nor is he as short worded as kirk, like janeway, sisko is more of a public teacher to those about him. Before sisko nods sisko would have to talk about his cooking. Sisko gets the chance to test his new orleans cuisine on the mouth of someone black from the olden times. Instead of "sisko nodded and smiled and left" something like the following. <Sisko nodded and smiled and turned to leave but then snaps his fingers and turns around and says: "I rarely get anyone who knows what soul food supposed to taste like, so I am lucky, I will be able to prepare dinner for you tonight" . Cage smiles, and Sisko leaves smiling. > My status post https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2089&type=status

@frankster You are correct about respect, but results isn't about respect or being liked. In the example I gave, if someone provides satisfactory results they will defeat anyone who is liked in an election. I will give two historical examples. Boos tweed was hated in NYC, he was a schemer a trickster and publicly derided alot, but he got results. when businesses wanted something he got it for them and opponents, who spoke more positively or had a better manner couldn't top that. He was of scottish descent and routinely spoke ill of the irish immigrants at that time. but, he got the entire irish communities vote when he gave the irish community the NYPD. The irish still hated him but he gave them what no one else did, he gave them an entire industry which in terms of NYC profited the irish community in the NYC is immeasurable ways. The irish still don't speak good of him , but he always earned their vote by results. Nancy pelosi as a child was a child of the d'alesandro ruling family of baltimore. do you know what she did as a child in the d'alesandro home? she kept up, what I Call, the begging book. People in Baltimore would come to the d'alesandro home and beg for things. D'alesandro would do these things... for a price. Was d'Alesandro loved or liked? hell no. Many people in BAltimore today spit on her father's grave, but they always got the most votes and why... results. History has proven time and again, getting results will earn you more votes than being liked in media , even if you are hated.

@ProfD To be blunt, I find these cases very consistent with the true nature of the usa. I Admit I am not like you or pioneer or daniel or troy or most others in this forum. I don't see the usa in a positive light nor do I think it can go to a positive light. yes, any government can be manipulated and all governments do change, but the essence of the usa has always been the same and I see nothing to warrant that changing. IT's not ridiculous, its statian. its what the usa has always been about. I know people like you hope the usa changes to become something else, but I and many others like me, don't have or want such hopes.

@ProfDtrue and I concur to pioneer about regionality in the usa @Pioneer1 Yes, they are, in the same way the irish were part of the british empire for longer than the usa was in existence and yet, after all of that time, what did the irish want? to separate from england. Look at scotland, whose relationship to england is only a little better than ireland, and they want to leave them. Modern irish or scottish people over thousands of years have intermingled with the english. yet, the irish wanted away from the english and the scottish keep thinking on it. Why? when the premise between two peoples is negative, time, environment, don't lessen the dislike. This is why the palestinean/israeli situation is only bound for more violence eventually. I know you side others in the black community in the usa like you have come to terms with the usa, have come to love it, want it, nurture it, and alongside yourselves. But, what you have to realize is that other black community don't see the usa like that. And unlike the irish, don't have a scenario anymore <south carolina post war between the states> where they can get that space from the remainder of the usa. Which they badly need. In parallel The modern black immigrants came willingly to the usa in the same why whites did. Where as Black descended of enslaved have to come to terms with the usa, to reach that position of passion for the usa, modern black immigrants or all white immigrants came to the usa with that in mind in the first place. The funny thing is, the black populaces the modern black immigrants left in the carribean or africa are becoming disenfranchised to the black immigrants to the usa in increasing and sometimes violent ways. As I say with the irish, who are mostlyor overhwelmingly white, many of their wealthy did as you say black people need to do, embrace that power that is about . but most irish didn't want to embrace the the british idea, they wanted to get the f away from britian and in particular the english. maybe black people descended from enslaved folk who are not interested or not liking to the usa can not articulate well enough for you pioneer, their position, but I think it is fair one. it is not about laziness, it is about what they want. what they want is a black country. I wish I could give them one, to be honest. They have earned it, and If I am blunt, the native american is owed two lands. but I have no power for such things.

@Pioneer1 Well, at the end of the day, the Blacks who fought to help create the USA or the Blacks who fought to stop the USA from being created or the Blacks who enslaved to whites were unable to make a choice, all wanted Black betterment, were all loyal to Black betterment. they merely didn't concur or have a middle ground, as the point of this forum posts, on what Black betterment shall look like tomorrow. The Blacks who fought for britain wanted what they were promised by britain before they joined, legally accepted land ownership, cause those blacks knew slavery was never going away no matter who won. The Blacks who fought for the USA wanted their freedom and they knew slavery was never going away no matter who won. The blacks who were enslaved, could only hope slavery would end no matter who won and that was never going to end, no matter who won. Now, barring intentions. History displays a simple truth. The blacks who fought for the losing whites side got land. It wasn't land in the usa but in what is commonly called canada today. While the blacks who fought for the winning white side didn't retain their freedom. Most of the blacks who fought for the usa, were reenslaved. so based on merely a fair deal, the blacks who fought for the creation of the usa were treated quite negatively. And that explains why in the war of 1812 most free blacks in the usa fought against the usa:) like in the was of secession. As for the terminology no big deal, not trying to preach. I prefer statians cause when I say Black Americans I am referring to all Black people in the American continent without allegiance to any country in the american continent. I think many black people forget the only country in the american continent where the black populace had a majority say in its creation was haiti. All other countries: usa/brasil/mexico/chile black people were present, no doubt, many historical figures, but the black community was enslaved at the genesis of all the countries in the usa continent save haiti, that were not still part of white european empires by the late 1800s and early 1900s. So for me, Black people are free to be attached to the USA but we are also free not to be:) I must specify, stand opposite of each other in terms of the usa, in terms of the usa. Both black groups want black betterment. but one feels the usa is a path to that, the other doesn't. And I think all black people in the entire history of the usa can say we know somebody else black who fits either bill. Now I speak for myself, I don't think anything is wrong with that too. I don't think anything is wrong with a black person becoming president of the usa, as well as a black person looking to blow up the usa. yes , all I want to add is, remember that most of the black people on the oceanic journey died on the way. So, if you consider a population near 300% of the black people who survived that journey would had been opposed too:) So yes, over time environment changes any people but even the white man admits, most of us died on the way. the following may make you feel even better:) coming from someone like myself. As a writer I study various literary things and I came across the term statian being first used by a white man. YOu may know him as the author of huckleberry fin. He didn't say white or black statian, that is me. he just used the term to represent all in the usa, from the ancient native american to the recent naturalized immigrant and all the others in between. And his reasoning made sense, cause I thought that myself before I read it. American is canada to argentina. But I think in the black community in the USA, needs the statian label to say the black people who believe in the usa, have faith in it. Not a label to comdemn, but I think to order efficiently, cause the reality is, many black people don't like , believe, have faith in the usa. and all black people know why, even if we don't like to admit it. Black people in the usa who are not statians are not always anti statian. Some are the nationalists,some are militants, some are garveyites, the back to africa folk <who are still around>. Yes, quantities change throughout time, but its more than meets the eye. I end with a wish. I wish black people in the usa who I deem Black sTatians, spent less time trying to get other black people to join them, stop preaching or proselytizing to blacks who don't share their views on the usa, and spend more time, making themselves a stronger group not merely in the black community in the usa, but in the usa itself. at the end of the day, white jews are white but they are a group within white community in the usa right? I think black statians in the black community in the usa can be as potent or efficient as white jews in the white community in the usa or the larger usa itself.

Anyone who may read this comment. You know, so many Black leaders were and are financially penniless. If black leaders in the usa are to be judged on how they improved the condition of the black masses, then most black leaders or black people i consider black leaders were and are failures. But I do wonder how many Black people in the usa honestly believe every black person should be a millionaire today. for the record most whites in the usa have always been poor too. Well... I end with a simple truth. I will love to help black towns in the usa, they deserve more help than they have ever received. and I admit with no shame that I have no money to help them. But I will continue speaking to their betterment.

Day 25 https://www.deviantart.com/hddeviant/art/Mushroom-25-Witchtember-2022-930838361

@Pioneer1 maybe because harlem had a black elected official, a legendary one, long before I was born I grew up seeing black elected officials regularly so I don't value their presence. I value their effectiveness to the community. Thus I don't see obama as you are others. but I do comprehend that other black people needed to see a black president. I apologize, by black loyalist, I meant the name given to black people in white history books who fought for themselves aside the whites of britain and against the creation of the usa or the whites of the usa or blacks of the usa, I call black statians. I wasn't suggesting anyone in this forum is disloyal or traitorous to the black community in the usa or elsewhere. Said black loyalist, the historic group, would oppose you or the others as they did crispus attucks. I oppose your position on those who want to leave being unchanged by the process of leaving. The different environment will change them. You use later in your reply the term Black loyalist referring to Black Statians who seek to empower themselves in the context of the usa. But just to reassert, when I mean black loyalist I am referring to that historic community and later the black people in the USA who enacted and enact their historical position of opposing the usa, opposing whites in the usa, opposing blacks statians, who by default support the usa. And thus my point in this forum post. You say that most enslaved black folks will want black participation/citizenship/striving or thriving in the usa as part of it. I oppose that position. But the point is Black people have key disagreements. When one black person says our enslaved forebears in majority wanted to be of the statian dream, while another says opposite, that is not something a bridge or center position can be made out of. And thus, when either black person makes a point, their is a natural friction. I will not say any black person is wrong in the usa for where they feel the black populace in it needs to go to, cause history gives creedance to all positions , but the entire black community in the usa has to realize its variance internally are unlike whites. Whites in the usa, have variance but it isn't the same. The white protestants who can't stand the whites jews is not the same as the black people who despise the usa aside the black people who do. Are all humans human? yes. But, in the usa, the black community doesn't respect its internal variance and that goes back to my point about the urban league and this voting agenda. Well I apologize if I said all black people enslaved didn't want to be enslaved but I am 100% certain most enslaved black people, meaning over 90% wanted to be free. And simply because 90% of all enslaved humans throughout human history want to be free from their human enslavers. @daniellegfny You say I don't see. And then you specify, the black vote dictates black lifestyles. You don't know me so I took out your allusion to me. ... Part of me would love to go to a small black town in mississippi and tell the impoverished black people there, who never had any opportunity of value whatsoever, the black vote dictates your lifestlye. I wonder what they will do. will they laugh at me? What do you think? @franksteryou said It depends on what you are looking for... that is what you said wrong. The question can't be answered like that. The answers are many, the qualities of the answers is where their rank resides. It doesn't depend. You said No. This post started with an action by the national urban league that I felt and feel ignored the truth of the black community in the usa. Said truth, to sum up my point in crude language... Some Black folks in the usa dont give an F about the USA or the white people in it or the black people who want to be part of it, but the Black people who love the USA can't seem to accept that. Consensus in the black community in the USA is impossible, but the reason isn't negative or false, it goes back to the beginning. Again, we are not a peoples who wanted to be here, that truth can not be ebbed by time or laws or black individual achievements. From the USA's beginnings to today, a large set of black people have always wanted to have nothing to do with the usa plus the whites in it. And I Think all black people's /groups/ organizations in the usa have to accept that and emit that truth in their actions. And the Urban League like so many black organizations in the usa isn't. They , like many black people in this forum, have a way and don't accept the honesty in other black people fitting another way and having no need to change. Even if said other black folk can't articulate it or explain it. And the point is, the black community has always been a set of WE's, not one we:) the only thing all black people in the usa should know is that the black populace in the usa is a set of We's. Initially three, even more today. And each we wasn't and isn't going to the same place. And I think all black people should be able to accept that as right. and the urban league in their agenda doesn't. Not unfortunately:) LEadership can't be a popularity contest... but governing results is a popularity contest. One can be disliked as a governing agent, in any system of government, but your quality as a government agent isn't in how many people like you but in how many people you actually help, and that means results and that is the issue with voting and the various black groups. If we are each elected officials to two black communal districts in a city in the USA. And You are disliked while I am liked. but you get more results while I don't. You know who the people will respect? it will not be me, even though I am liked. I think the original three black communities in the usa, side the others in the future, demand results, not liking. but the black elected officials historically in the usa, going back to south carolina, failed in getting results to the majority phenotypical voting populace in south carolina at the time, which was black. they failed badly. The actions of the people can be controlled they can be manipulated by media, but the actions of the people when given government that is effective is far stronger than anything that media can manipulate. It says more about any country when the governing officials are unwilling to use results to influence the actions of the people and will rather media tricks. yes, and it was ineffectual and is still being upheld by many black elected governing agents today, though it clearly didn't help the larger black populace. Not generally, always. but south carolina's majority was black. That is the point. The black elected officials decisions were poor, and cost the black majority in south carolina, to be blunt. Now, you can argue that the black elected officials in South Carolina wanted the black populace to be the minority in south carolina. Maybe they didn't care. I have read a few of their speeches in the south carolina legislature. They are not the speeches of elected officials who are trying to empower a majority in a state in the usa. but that goes back to my points and , goes into many a prose concerning black elected officials in the usa, that I am not giving. The thing about a rising tide in the sea is it never raises all boats similarly, even if the boats are shaped the same, so each boat's qualities or situations has to be considered individually.

Day 24 https://www.deviantart.com/hddeviant/art/Notebook-24-Witchtember-2022-930735627

One recurring theme in modernity is that the fifty states of the USA are not the same, in racial composition, legal structure, heritage, culture, or current path. They are merely in a union. https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2087&type=status

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@ProfD truth, but my point was about europe originally. so outside the usa things are not parallel to the usa. and I think that is important to say or comprehend. The usa isn't the world. @Pioneer1 the question you pose is simple. What will it take to convince the Black populace in the USA, whose heritage is majority anti usa to buy in, believe, be part of the usa system? If history holds true, a majority of black people in the usa will always be anti-usa and I think it makes perfect sense. The one factor that has a chance in my view of changing the black populace into majority statian is the modern black immigrants from carribbean/latin america/africa/asia. Many of them come not as black but attached to countries and usually, with the important point of wanting to be in the usa, which is against the heritage of the majority of black people in the usa.

@Pioneer1 I concur that no voting day is needed but my reasoning is not yours. It isn't for a lack of agenda but for the composition of the black community in the USA. As you are the third person to mention black elected officials as a resultant to the betterment of the black community it is clear, that black elected officials , regardless of their quality are deemed a worthy result for the black vote by many black people. but, what is also clear, is the black people who value positively the result of the black vote being black elected officials don't seem to recognize that the other two parts of the Black statian heritage are not comforted by said results to the black vote. What are the three parts of Black Statian Heritage? Blacks who fought against the creation of the usa at the usa's founding, Black who found for the creation of the usa at the usa's founding, Blacks who were unable to choose their path through white domination at the usa's founding. Crispus Attucks will concur 100% to you Pioneer or Frankster or Danielle. But will the Black loyalists? no. Will the Black enslaved? no. And that is the problem I have with the urban league's strategem. The Black American in the USA has three heritages, and two of those are to be blunt, anti-statian. One is clearly anti white of the USA. The Black loyalists said the usa, its declarations, its legal code, the white people in it, the not enslaved black people who fight or live side the white people in the usa are enemies. I think many black people have a similar thinking in the usa today. maybe they can not articulate it, but I think they exists in greater number than 2 And the Black enslaved had one common factor, they all didn't want to be enslaved. No, not all wanted to kill whites, some though extremely few loved whites, but none would choose slavery over freedom if a path to freedom was guaranteed. Not a hope or a wish or a dream, but guaranteed. And I think many black people are very willing to do for something certain that is free of the usa or the white people in it, but not willing to gamble. Your correct, the Black loyalists nor the Black enslaved wanted a job did they? Those groups together represented over ninety percent of the black populace when the usa was founded and neither wanted to be president of the usa, vote in the usa, be in the usa, and definitely not a laborer living aside the white populace in the usa. My point being is black people who are statian, represent the spirit of crispus attucks could do the entire village a favor by realizing that a large percentage of the black community in the usa wasn't when the usa was founded and still isn't of a similar mind and trying to speak ill of the other two heritages or delegitimize them is dysfunctional and to be blunt, simply hasn't worked. From crispus attucks through frederick douglass, to barack obama, it hasn't worked.

Have any of you read Fire and Blood? I have.

@daniellegfny you are the second to reply with black elected officials...you add jobs they give to black people... As the prior commentor who said similar, your answer is correct. The problem is only one sector of the black community has ever found this satisfactory or to their purpose, and the other sectors have not and do not and the other sectors combined represent a majority of the black populace in the usa. And their unsatisfactory position to the return investment on voting of black elected officials explains the voting response , from blacks who do not vote to blacks who do vote but expect nothing of value. Sequentially, the NAtional Urban LEagues, Black Voters Day is missing the point altogether. The Black people who are satisfied are not right or wrong, the black people who are not, are not right or wrong. The black people disconnected are not right or wrong. People talk about heritage in the USA alot but miss the truth. Some Black people, most free blacks, fought against the creation of the usa when the usa was being created. Some black people, a minority of free blacks, fought for the creation of the usa when the usa was being created. Most black people , the enslaved to whites,were disallowed by white power to make a choice when the usa was being created. The heritage of black people in the usa has three prongs, the urban league, as those in its prong have always done, disrespects the other two prongs with their position.

Day 23 https://www.deviantart.com/hddeviant/art/Calligraphy-pen-23-Witchtember-2022-930589995

@ProfD The way I define an agenda being created or a special interest, I think black elected officials have them to be accountable for. But I want to know how you ProfD define creating an agenda or making a list of special interest?

@ProfD based on brexit your assertion is historically false, the white towns of england didn't want immigrants from eastern europe who they felt were a problem. London voted to remain in the European Union but the remainder of england, voted to exit, and it was the reaction to white immigrants in those white towns. Well many rich whites in various countries in Europe publicly spoke against the Ukrainians. So.. Remember, Europe isn't the USA or the American continent. White Unity doesn't exist in Europe as it does in the American continent. Well, the white woman who has a huge chance of being the next president of italy said the European Union era will end. so... I will say the United States had a huge role in modern Europe and like in vietnam, korea, iraq, afghanistan, latin america, the southern states, wherever the USA federal government touches, things go negative. The USA is historically a terrible shepard of communities internally or externally.

Europe is sharply pulling away from the USA culture that biden is trying to keep alive, https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2085&type=status

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State of America complete discussion View video at the link https://aalbc.com/tc/profile/6477-richardmurray/?status=2081&type=status