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I quote @Rodney campbell concerning Bob Marley in italics.

 

I never could embrace his leaf smoking cultural habits. Which became propagandized as being somehow a Jamaican normal behaviour.

Which. At that TIME it was not.

I respected his position as a spearhead for the black people.

I respected his outright denouncement of the racial negativity.

But thanks to propaganda the documentaries that focus on those aspects are few and far apart.

Instead we have generations of leaf inhalers who have been convinced they are contributing to the black experience by being high. Like that is somehow a black thing.

 

I was not interested in doing anything but honoring bob marley on his birthday. But now that it is past, Rodney's thoughts to me, lead to a very valuable issue in the Black community globally, which is not present straightly in his prose. And that is the issue of minority communities in the black community. 

I am not rastafarian. To be blunt, I think Ras Tafari , or duke Tafari, more commonly known by his appointed name, Haille Sellasie made tremendous errors as king of ethiopia. And my views towards ethiopia like haiti are particular. For anyone black in humanity who looks for inspiration based on black achievement in total opposition to non blacks, then haiti/ethiopia/karnataka are the rare examples of black achievement before the 1960s that is not within a white fold.<No black achievements post 1960 exist outside a white fold> So ethiopia is beyond haille selassie, and I don't think he earned the praise the ras tafarians gave him, though I think he should be praised for some things. 

But gardless what anyone black thinks of the ras tafarians in jamaica or the greater caribbean or greater still american continent the rastafarians are a minority community in the black community, and in Black history month I think one of the problems with the black community globally , while definitely in the USA is the relationship the black majority has to black minorities.

 

The gullah of the carolinas /the creoles of louisiana/the rastafarians of jamaica are not the majority in the black community in those places but they each with other similars tend to have a cultural relationship that can be at odds with the majority in the black community about them. To be blunt, the gullah's language is at odds with the culture of the majority in the black community who are zealous anglophiles. The creoles unique cultural makeup , that fusion of poly african/french catholic/ anglo protestant doesn't fit the very christian very statian culture of the majority in the black community. The rastafarians are in the same scenario. Most jamaicans in the past and many jamaicans now are anglophiles. I know a number of jamaican families. the women's hair is straight, they try to speak english with a slight english accent, and they are very much in the rigid black church mold. Not all , but many. 

 

I think Rodney's point leads to a deeper issue in the black community globally or in parts and that is how black majorities handle black minorities. In my experience , many black people who are part of a majority tend to have a negative view toward black minorities. And the reason why is obvious. All minorities, like the white jew in the white community, have to deal with the fact that the majority doesn't care for your heritage or culture. WHich is obvious why, it is different. But, the black majority has a tendency to want to universalize in the black community whereas whites in the usa at least have a more white union appeal in modernity, I don't think black people in the usa at least, are as interested in a pan black approach.

 

The full quote from Rodney Campbell is at the following forum post

 

 

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27 minutes ago, richardmurray said:

In my experience , many black people who are part of a majority tend to have a negative view toward black minorities.

 

But, the black majority has a tendency to want to universalize in the black community...

 

I don't think black people in the usa at least, are as interested in a pan black approach.

 

AfroAmerican unity has been discouraged since chattel slavery.  Among AfroAmericans, not even our 1) shared history nor 2) skin color seems to be a tie that solidly binds us. 

 

OTOH, other Black groups of people at the very least have a 1) homeland and 2) culture.  That should be the tie that binds them regardless of whether or not they choose to create minority groups among themselves. 

 

Overall, the lack of leadership and unity among all Black groups of people and coming together in order to form strategic alliances is the only impediment to dismantling the system of white supremacy. 

 

White folks work overtime to keep Black folks segregated by any means necessary.  Black unity is their biggest fear.  We are too afraid to rise up.😎

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@ProfD 

Well, Black Americans include Black people in the american continent which is from canada to argentina so black jamaicans who are rastafarian at odds with black jamaicans who are not is part of the course so to speak. but in my travels to africa, i find binds are weak as well. My personal experience is in north western africa, but the hutu or tutsi in rwanda are the most public example. 

 

And to be honest, whites are no better. Brexit wasn't about people of color, white people of england didn't want want people of eastern europe and now the white people of poland and nearby countries are trying to stop white ukranians from entering their countries. 

 

So it seems the lack unity is more a human reality  than a problem.  HEll, even white jews in nyc oppose the commonly called conservative white jews in nyc. So, I argue unity isn't the problem between the black majority and the black minorities as much as poor leadership or planning or coexistence. Maybe the problem isn't that the black minorities need to be united with the black majorities but maybe they need a better way of coexisting than simple crude unity , which is not present in humanity historically. 

 

If white unity had that power, why are the irish still at it with the english. 

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@richardmurray, white folks have differences among themselves but they are unified when it comes to maintaining the system of racism white supremacy. 

 

If Black folks from every continent got together and formed a Black United Nations working towards strategic alliances sharing knowledge and resources consolidating into real social and economic power, white folks would 1) destroy us or 2) blow up the planet.

 

White folks do not have militaries and weapons to defend themselves from each other.  They play war games.  They pretend to disagree with each other.  That's all a smoke screen to make folks believe they aren't unified.  It's BS. 

 

White folks are prepared to go to war against non-white people if/when their power and way of life becomes threatened and/or is under attack. 😎

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@ProfD yes, one white group controls other white groups and they all accept that control as pertains to non whites. so which black group is going to control the other black groups then? That is the question. 

 

This forum alone proves black people as no human community can truly come together en masse as equals. This forum plus simple black history proves black people can unite globally, we did it already before, but when the next time happens, it will need one or a few to manage the whole as in the past. But, you are very sure about white power. Based on what you said white folks will do, should black people simply be penitent to whites? Any option displaying whites will fail you didn't mention. 

 

An old saying exist, war is never a game. I do not know the truth, i am not in the halls of power in humanity. But I will say this, that smokescreen you refer to is red with blood. 

 

true, non white europeans have spent the last two to five centuries being killed or dominated by white europeans. Survivors in such a scenario are not the native americans who fought the colonists and was shot, the blacks who jumped off the boats and tried to swim back, the asians who revolted  by hand against arms. But history proves again, all empires fall, no exceptions exist. Are you suggesting the modern white empire in humanity is an exception?

 

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5 hours ago, richardmurray said:

@ProfD ...so which black group is going to control the other black groups then? 

 

 This forum plus simple black history proves black people can unite globally....it will need one or a few to manage the whole as in the past.

 

But history proves again, all empires fall, no exceptions exist. Are you suggesting the modern white empire in humanity is an exception?

I have no idea of which Black group would be in control as it relates to others.  That shouldn't be the concern. Leadership and unity should be priority.

 

Aso, I don't how long the current empire will last. They have enough history and technology to outlast empires of the past.😎

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3 hours ago, richardmurray said:

 

My question ask about the design and structure of leadership and unity and you said that shouldn't be a concern? 

 

So you are not suggesting the modern white empire is an exception so the length of their empire then isn't a concern. 

My response of no concern was in answer to your question of "which Black group is going to control the others." We're too far removed from who should be in control. 

 

You stated that all empires fail with no exception.

 

My response was that the current empire has the benefits of history and technology to sustain it.

 

The current empire knows how and why past empires failed. As a result, they have reinforced their power on every front in order to maintain it. 

 

I think it will take a catastrophic natural disaster to destroy the current empire. 😎

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@ProfD  I am happy for your answers. 

 

Based on your words

 

You think the black community is too far removed to concern itself with its own internal design or structure while it needs to focus on a unity absent an internal structure or design.

 

Based on your words

 

You think the current white empire is not able to withstand everything but is only susceptible to , and I rephrase you, an act of god.  Sequentially, you think no human activity can undo the current white empire. 

 

Thank you for your answers.

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@richardmurray, I think you're still misunderstanding my point.

 

1)  AfroAmericans do not have leadership. 

 

2) AfroAmericans do not have a unified infrastructure in place.

 

3) Right now, I'm not aware of any strong Black leader(s) of nations who have global influence.

 

4)  Every Black nation on the planet is either being exploited by another country or too poor to be self-sufficient.

 

 AfroAmericans have to solve 1 and 2 before we can even take a seat at the table within a Black United Nations.

 

3 and 4 suggest that no Black group of people is qualified to control other groups of Black people within a Black United Nations.

 

Right now, I do not believe any nation on the planet is a real threat to the system of racism white supremacy. There's no ongoing human activity that could topple it.

 

Short of a catastrophic event, the current empire could implode under its own largesse. Similar to the Roman empire. But, they're not going to let that happen.😎

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@ProfD

Quote

1)  AfroAmericans do not have leadership. 

1)All people's have leadership profd, all peoples, the question is how successful is that leadership and humanity proves it is a range, from those who seem to have it all together, who of course do not, to those who seem to have nothing, who of course do not either.

Black Americans have leadership, and I argue, the Black American community in the usa has reflected the goals of many Black American leaders in the past ala frederick douglass or mlk jr.

Quote

2) AfroAmericans do not have a unified infrastructure in place.

2) true, Black Americans don't have a unified structure and I add have not made efforts to make one in the usa at least , which does coincide with the wishes or beliefs of frederick douglass.

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3) Right now, I'm not aware of any strong Black leader(s) of nations who have global influence.

3) true, and I add many leaders in humanity in general are finding their potency limited.

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4)  Every Black nation on the planet is either being exploited by another country or too poor to be self-sufficient.

4)true, though that is most countries in humanity for the record including most white ones. 

 

 

So far the only point I oppose is your first one. That is not true. 

 

Your subpoints

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AfroAmericans have to solve 1 and 2 before we can even take a seat at the table within a Black United Nations.

True, even though said black united nations if it existed would have an influence on all black people globally, and I add I think Black Americans in the usa , in uncontestable majority, want to be part of an internally peaceful or prosperous  while multiracial usa

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3 and 4 suggest that no Black group of people is qualified to control other groups of Black people within a Black United Nations.

True, and I add the best proof of qualifying for the role of controlling group is simply if said group controls, beyond how they are assessed.

 

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Right now, I do not believe any nation on the planet is a real threat to the system of racism white supremacy. There's no ongoing human activity that could topple it.

I can only say I can concur if by white supremacy , white european supremacy is meant. If not, I oppose the framing of your point. humanity is complicated, always has been. 

 

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Short of a catastrophic event, the current empire could implode under its own largesse. Similar to the Roman empire. But, they're not going to let that happen.😎

The roman empire had an implosion but didn't die at that moment. It reorganized. Emperor justinian of nova roma centered on constantinople had reclaimed most of the empire lost in the implosion when the capitol was last centered on the city commonly called rome today. The roman empire died by age and opponents. The roman empire died a city state. Like most empires, the neighbors took a long time but learned from it and then attacked it over the course of many years from all sides. It died by withering not implosion. And the USA unlike the roman empire is more influenced by factors of withering internally while like rome is surrounded by learning opponents.

 

In conclusion, you stated i miscomprehended your points. from my own comprehension. I didn't, and I only contested three of them. and you answered all my questions. I simply reframed your answers using your own words, which is a paraphrasing but is not mischaracterizing your points. 

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10 hours ago, richardmurray said:

Black Americans have leadership, and I argue, the Black American community in the usa has reflected the goals of many Black American leaders in the past ala frederick douglass or mlk jr.

No doubt, AfroAmericans have made significant progress since the days of our past leaders.

 

We have been on a form of auto-pilot since the last of our leadership was assassinated. 

 

IMO, AfroAmericans still do not have a code or agenda nor any current leadership to champion it.

 

There are AfroAmerican  grassroots organizations,  churches, NAACP, Congressional Black Caucus, etc. 

 

Yet, none of these institutions seem to be interested in dismantling the system of racism white supremacy.😎

 

 

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@ProfD  

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No doubt, AfroAmericans have made significant progress since the days of our past leaders.

Well the question is progress to what? Again, the goal matters. One of the problems with many human movements throughout all humanity is people all to often don't see the goal they are reaching for over the journey. Look at Russia. I was a child, but I remember hoopla over the end of the USSR. Later as a teen I read things. As an adult I have seen Russia go through its changes from a distance as an unconcerned observer. But it is a lesson. The russian people who fled russia during the evil soviet years, still haven't returned but supported russians who wanted to make a version of the monarchic days in russia and that is what happened. Yeah, the oppression of the soviets is gone and russia is in a version of the czarist days with an american stylistic visage. But that is what the goal was. What is the progress toward in the black community in the usa?

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We have been on a form of auto-pilot since the last of our leadership was assassinated. 

yes, because the goal hasn't changed. the goal is the same that frederick championed over 150 years ago, peaceful coexistence sides whites in the usa. Yeah, a marcus garvey/fannie lou hamer/malcolm x/shirley chisholm happen but they are all outcast in that something about them leads to a goal different than what frederick douglass and most black leaders: booker t washington/w.e.b. dubois the younger/ the black club women of church/the mlk jr/the nation of islam/ fred hampton/the southern black christian leadership conference/jesse jackson/maxine waters/al sharpton/robert johnson/oprah winfrey/ michael jordan/barrack obama side michelle obama/hakeem jeffries/lebron james/ or similar all lead to peaceful coexistence side whites in the usa. 

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IMO, AfroAmericans still do not have a code or agenda nor any current leadership to champion it.

Yes,the agenda is as it was set at the end of the war between the states, peaceful coexistence between blacks side all in the usa. That demands a code of nonviolence to whites regardless of white activity/participation in white organizations even styming black ones/forgiveness to whites even it isn't warranted/allegiance to the usa. And black people in the usa in majority have done that.

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There are AfroAmerican  grassroots organizations,  churches, NAACP, Congressional Black Caucus, etc. 

 

Yet, none of these institutions seem to be interested in dismantling the system of racism white supremacy.

To finalize, they are interested in ending the system of white supremacy through reaching the goal of peaceful multiracial coexistence in the usa. Which as the center of the current global empire has global implications. 

 

In conclusion

I said in this forum before and I repeat with no hesitancy, I think Frederick Douglass was wrong and his agenda implemented by latter leaders has cost black people in the usa their lives or led to their suffering at the hands of whites with no escape, and influenced the black communities outside the usa negatively. But, the point is the black community in the usa has an agenda, has organizations that follow it with its code. It is a challenge cause it is in spite of what black people in the usa in majority wanted, but that is the situation. And it has its levels or forms of success. 

 

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4 hours ago, richardmurray said:

Well the question is progress to what? Again, the goal matters.

 

What is the progress toward in the black community in the usa?

 

Yes,the agenda is as it was set at the end of the war between the states, peaceful coexistence between blacks side all in the usa.

 

@richardmurray, you're right in that many AfroAmericans are satisfied in having a relatively peaceful coexistence with white folks. 

 

I've never felt that a civil arrangement with white folks should be the end goal of AfroAmericans. 

 

America owes a debt to AfroAmericans for its sin of slavery. Reparations have not been paid. 

 

AfroAmericans have not unified, codified and come up with an agenda to collect reparations. That should be our 1st order of business.

 

Unfortunately, too many AfroAmericans are satisfied with the status quo. So, we're in this holding pattern. 😎

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@ProfD 

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you're right in that many AfroAmericans are satisfied in having a relatively peaceful coexistence with white folks. 

I daresay, without proof, more than many, but most. and that matters because when you say 

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I've never felt that a civil arrangement with white folks should be the end goal of AfroAmericans. 

if most black americans are looking for an end goal as a civil arrangement to whites or all others in the usa, then you are part of a minority in the black community in the usa. 

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America owes a debt to AfroAmericans for its sin of slavery. Reparations have not been paid. 

 

AfroAmericans have not unified, codified and come up with an agenda to collect reparations. That should be our 1st order of business.

Reparations used to be what most black americans wanted, I don't think that is the truth today. I can be wrong. I have no way to prove this. But if I am correct, then the goal of reparations doesn't have enough support in the black community itself.

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Unfortunately, too many AfroAmericans are satisfied with the status quo. So, we're in this holding pattern. 😎

but remember one thing that is very important , that Black Americans don't say enough. We, Blacks in the USA, put ourselves on this path. Our leaders  in the USA guided us this way, rightly or wrongly. And we all know from the multilogs within the black church leadership at the end of the war between the states, to the thoughts or view between Black soldiers during the commonly called world war one, to the various transcriptions or letters in the nation of islam or the southern black christian leadership conference that black leaders debated on the agenda and rightly or wrongly, the end of the debates ended with civil union side all in the usa over other ideas, including reparations, as the goal for black people in the usa. So, it may be unfortunate, but black people planned this:) this isn't about what power. 

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@ProfD

Pioneer made a quote in another post

Quote

If we really want to change the practices of law enforcement then we need to do 2 things:


1. Make OUR OWN laws

2. Enforcement OURSELVES with our own specially trained enforcers.

 

Until we stop relying on White folks to do everything for us including make the policies and govern us....and take the initiative to feed, clothe, and govern ourselves....the problem will continue.

 

The next best thing is to join the existing law enforcement agencies and try to rise as high as we can through the ranks so that we'll have some sort of power and influence over their behavior and policies.

 

  Pioneer's quote delivers a present, modern, sense in the very forum we communicate in. Pioneer stated a goal that is a larger sense of black potency or ownership but what pioneer state secondarily is the current activity of many ,and I say most, black people in the usa. Sequentially, regardless of other intentions, joining into white organizations can only lead to a peaceful coexistence to whites in the usa as the end goal. 

You say reparations, profd says black self rule, but what black leaders guide most black people to do is merely integration to create peaceful multiracial participation into the usa, rightly or wrongly. 

Getting reparations anywhere near warranted or a measure of self rule for a majority of black people can not occur through integrated participation side whites in organizations in the usa. 

 

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