Our Students are Graduating from High School Functionally Illiterate

[Troy]

I've spoken about this subject with several current educators and the verdict is largely the same, were have lost a generation of students and we are in for a "shit-show" (my phrase based upon what I've heard).

 

Our reaction to the pandemic has made an existing problem FAR worse.  In one school system students are 5 grade levels behind upon graduation and are being pushed out the door with a meaningless diploma.

 

My information is purely anecdotal, bit one sister I spoke with was apoplectic over the situation in her system.  It was also a community in which gun violence, already high, is increasing (that was a correlation I made later).

 

If we chose to fight, for the Palestinians, for reparations, against Trump, for lowering carbon admissions, for the right for abortions, for universal health care, or to save the whales, none of it will really matter if our population is dumb and ignorant.

[ProfD]

I've been hearing about this dumbing down of America for more than a decade now. 

 

Yet, I see little kids under 5 years old navigating their way through smartphones and tablets.

 

Illiterate people have been responsible for some of humankind's greatest achievements and accomplishments.

 

Functionally illiterate people have been handling jobs the best and brightest folks are unwilling to do.  There's a huge swath of gray in the middle. 

 

Not to worry as AI is coming along to put a whole lot of folks out of work.

 

For hundreds of years now, America has had a net IQ of average.

[Troy]

5 hours ago, ProfD said:

For hundreds of years now, America has had a net IQ of average.

 
There is true by definition

 

5 hours ago, ProfD said:

Illiterate people have been responsible for some of humankind's greatest achievements and accomplishments.

I was unaware of this. can you name a couple of examples from the last decade or two?

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Troy said:

I was unaware of this. can you name a couple of examples from the last decade or two?

Illiterate usually connotes an inability to read and write. Another definition is having  little or no formal knowledge in a particular field of study.

 

I'lll refrain from name-dropping on a public forum.

 

However, looking at history past thru present they're easy to find.

[Troy]

 

7 hours ago, ProfD said:

Illiterate usually connotes an inability to read and write.

 
that was the definition I was using. Does your response change? 

 

7 hours ago, ProfD said:

I'lll refrain from name-dropping on a public forum.

that is a surprising response, if someone were responsive for “humankind's greatest achievements and accomplishments” surely we would know there names if you shared them.

 

[ProfD]

2 hours ago, Troy said:

that was the definition I was using. Does your response change? 

No. Because illiteracy is more broad than the usually accepted definition.

 

2 hours ago, Troy said:

that is a surprising response, if someone were responsive for “humankind's greatest achievements and accomplishments” surely we would know there names if you shared them.

R. Kelly, Quentin Tarantino, Michael Faraday and POTUS Abraham Lincoln could be classified as illiterate according to the broader definition.

[aka Contrarian]

@ProfDIn what area is the man who wrote the Gettysburg address considered to be illiterate?

 

What does RKelly being able to sing have to do with his not being able to read? 

 

[ProfD]

8 minutes ago, aka Contrarian said:

@ProfDIn what area is the man who wrote the Gettysburg address considered to be illiterate?

Abraham Lincoln only had one year of formal education.  

8 minutes ago, aka Contrarian said:

What does RKelly being able to sing have to do with his not being able to read? 

It's hard to sing lyrics if one is unable to read them.  Also, he's not a formally trained musician.  Despite any real or perceived illiteracy, R. Kelly became a successful songwriter, composer, music producer and entertainer. 

 

By no means am I proclaiming these men to be illiterate.  Just providing examples of people who beat the definition and/or stigma.

 

 

[Troy]

10 hours ago, ProfD said:

No. Because illiteracy is more broad than the usually accepted definition.

what?! Is this pioneer using the good professor’s account?

 

10 hours ago, ProfD said:

Abraham Lincoln could be classified as illiterate

ok we CLEARLY can’t have a serious conversation on this subject. That statement is profoundly absurd man, I’m shocked  

 

Were you triggered by my use of the word iillit

[ProfD]

53 minutes ago, Troy said:

what?! Is this pioneer using the good professor’s account?

ok we CLEARLY can’t have a serious conversation on this subject. That statement is profoundly absurd man, I’m shocked  

 

Were you triggered by my use of the word iillit

Calm down. No imposter here.

 

As one of America's greatest Presidents and orators we  know Abraham Lincoln wasn't truly illiterate. 

 

There are plenty gifted musician who cannot read or write music. An educator would say they are musically illiterate. 

 

As I mentioned above, I would never  consider illiterate anyone of talent, skill, achievement or accomplishment. 

 

 Just check out the full definition of the word as it relates to lacking formal education and unlettered.

[Troy]

@ProfD I’m calm, I’m just perplexed by your response.  You know I know the definition of the word Illiterate. You know the definition I was using. This straw man argument of yours, claiming Lincoln was illiterate to make a point, is not one I will pursue.

 

 The fact is educators are concerned that increasing numbers of Black children are graduating without the requisite shills to make it in our society, notably the ability to read at a high enough level.
 

So ProfD, what is your point? Is their concern alarmist? Is the ability to read ovrrrated? Do you not believe them? What? 
 

Given your reaction and your history, I still think there was something deeper you are not revealing.  that or your account has been hacked  

[ProfD]

14 minutes ago, Troy said:

This straw man argument of yours, claiming Lincoln was illiterate to make a point, is not one I will pursue.

Great. Because my comment wasn't intended to be an argument. 

 

14 minutes ago, Troy said:

The fact is educators are concerned that increasing numbers of Black children are graduating without the requisite shills to make it in our society, notably the ability to read at a high enough level.

Educators should be concerned about literacy.

 

Society should be concerned with providing enough high-paying job opportunities before technology flips the script.

14 minutes ago, Troy said:

So ProfD, what is your point? Is their concern alarmist? Is the ability to read ovrrrated? Do you not believe them? What? 

I believe people can learn in different ways whatever they need to know in order to survive.

14 minutes ago, Troy said:

Given your reaction and your history, I still think there was something deeper you are not revealing.  that or your account has been hacked  

Nope. There's nothing deeper to reveal. I'm not sure I can make it any clearer. 

 

So, I'll pop out of this thread and head back over to a real conflict.

[aka Contrarian]

Actually, everybody is illiterate before they learn to read. There's nothing extraordinary about learning to read, and no stigma justified in not yet learning to read. Nor does it matter if your education is informal. Education is education. 

 

Moreover,  people don't really need to be able to read in order to learn the lyrics to a song. Just like they  don't need to know how to read in order to talk. All that's necessary to do these things is to be able to hear and remember. Being able to sing in spite of being illiterate is actually no big deal. Being a good singer is a gift.Talent is innate.

 

Ideally, however, children should be taught to read and comprehend in order to become well functioning adults. When schools fail to  adequately develop this ability,  then we're in big trouble.

                     IMO

[Chevdove]

On 4/30/2024 at 3:47 PM, Troy said:

Our reaction to the pandemic has made an existing problem FAR worse.  In one school system students are 5 grade levels behind upon graduation and are being pushed out the door with a meaningless diploma.

 

Yes, I do believe the pandemic has made an existing issue much worse. 

 

On 4/30/2024 at 5:28 PM, ProfD said:

Yet, I see little kids under 5 years old navigating their way through smartphones and tablets.

 

Yes, but it's like having 'tunnel vision'. Just because they know how to do that 'in a crazy way' does not add to their whole intellect at all. 

 

On 4/30/2024 at 5:28 PM, ProfD said:

Not to worry as AI is coming along to put a whole lot of folks out of work.

 

I wish I understood what Al really is. Months ago, I did understand when I looked into it but now, i've forgotten. 

I see a recent discussion thread about it, but I haven't commented because I just do not understand.

A local library recently offered a class to teach about Al, but I missed that one, however, I hope to take a class

because I keep hearing about it and think it might be important to understand. 

 

18 hours ago, aka Contrarian said:

 

 

Ideally, however, children should be taught to read and comprehend in order to become well functioning adults. When schools fail to  adequately develop this ability,  then we're in big trouble.

                     IMO

 

I absolutely agree. 

 

On 4/30/2024 at 10:47 PM, Troy said:

 

 

On 4/30/2024 at 5:28 PM, ProfD said:

Illiterate people have been responsible for some of humankind's greatest achievements and accomplishments.

I was unaware of this. can you name a couple of examples from the last decade or two?

 

 

what about Thomas Edison?

I think he was so severe and could not keep up that he was expelled from school. He may have been illiterate but I don't remember off hand.

And his invention came to completely change this world. 

I don't know of any recent people a decade or two ago. 

 

I just googled and have to edit. I turns out that today, it is said that Thomas Edison is not described as illiterate but had dyslexia.

However, some reports say a scientist named Michael Faraday was illiterate and became renown.

[aka Contrarian]

 

Can we assume that the  individuals in question became outstanding after they finally learned to read, not in spite of not being able to read??  I could see the latter being the case  when it comes to the Arts, but not the Sciences. 

[Troy]

On 5/1/2024 at 11:48 PM, ProfD said:

I believe people can learn in different ways whatever they need to know in order to survive.

Any educator worth a damn knows this already and they are so concerned.

 

both of my grandfathers were illiterate one lived on a subsistence level and the, born in 1880 when illiteracy was essentially the norm for black American did quite well for himself even leaving all his descendants  a modest inheritance.

 

 In the 21st century the average mofo better know how to read. If you have R. Kelly’s talent you’ll get by. The vast majority of us do not have the talent to be a professional entertainer.

17 hours ago, Chevdove said:

I hope to take a class

because I keep hearing about it and think it might be important to understand. 

@Chevdove just create a free account with chatGPT https://chatgpt.com/ and start asking it questions you can for pretty in depth. That is how I got started.

 

 There are many tools available that provide a variety of tools.

[ProfD]

9 minutes ago, Troy said:

In the 21st century the average mofo better know how to read.

The average US literacy rate is around 86%.  The average mofo knows how to read.  Being able to find a skill or trade and a high-paying job will remain the biggest  hurdle.

[Troy]

1 minute ago, ProfD said:

Being able to find a skill or trade and a high-paying job will remain the biggest  hurdle.

true especially for us.
 

do you know the literacy rate for Black boys aged 18 and if that number has changed historically. Guess it is less than 86% and dropping.

[ProfD]

1 minute ago, Troy said:

do you know the literacy rate for Black boys aged 18 and if that number has changed historically. Guess it is less than 86% and dropping.

The literacy rate for African-Americans 15 years and older is around 88%.  The rate is indistinguishable between males and females.  The rate has been relatively stable for several decades.

[Troy]

What was the last year for which days is available?

[Mel Hopkins]

On 4/30/2024 at 3:47 PM, Troy said:

none of it will really matter if our population is dumb and ignorant.

 

Does illiteracy mean dumb and ignorant?

 

If I were to go to France, I would first have to learn the language, and if I did, I believe my reading and writing comprehension would be sub-par. I'd still be able to think my way through most challenges, though.

 

Anyway, consider this: we live in a high technological age. We don't even have to read anymore. I'm currently "reading" an audiobook. While Grammarly highlights my grammatical errors and poor sentence structure, I'm typing this post. If I'm using my phone - some transcription audio app could "read" everything on this page. I could write a book by recording and transcribing it. So, do you know what we should be concerned about with Generation Z and Alpha? Critical thinking, problem-solving, and accessing information.

But to drive my high-tech point home... LOL  Here's what "Chad" says:
 

Quote

 

While literacy is undeniably an essential skill, especially in a knowledge-based economy, it's not the sole determinant of success, particularly in an emerging technological economy. Here's why:

1. **Technological Literacy**: In an increasingly digital world, proficiency with technology is paramount. Even individuals with lower literacy levels can succeed if they possess strong technological skills. This includes the ability to navigate digital interfaces, use productivity software, code, and adapt to new technologies.

2. **Specialized Skills**: Success in certain fields may require specialized skills that aren't necessarily dependent on traditional literacy. For example, proficiency in coding, graphic design, data analysis, or other technical skills can lead to lucrative careers even without high literacy levels.

3. **Entrepreneurship and Innovation**: Entrepreneurial spirit and innovation can drive success in the technological economy. Individuals who can identify opportunities, innovate solutions, and effectively execute their ideas can thrive regardless of their literacy level.

4. **Collaboration and Communication**: While literacy is important for communication, success in the technological economy also relies on effective collaboration and communication skills. These skills encompass verbal communication, active listening, teamwork, and the ability to convey ideas clearly, which aren't solely dependent on literacy.

5. **Continuous Learning and Adaptability**: In a rapidly evolving technological landscape, the ability to learn and adapt is crucial. Individuals who are willing to continuously acquire new skills, stay updated with industry trends, and embrace change can succeed, regardless of their initial literacy levels.

That said, addressing low literacy rates remains important for societal progress, as literacy is not only about reading and writing but also about critical thinking, problem-solving, and accessing information. Efforts to improve literacy can empower individuals to fully participate in the digital economy and capitalize on emerging opportunities.

 

So yes, we can probably argue some points with "Chad GPT." This response articulates the skills we should build in this new age.

By the way, this is an excellent topic, @Troy. After interviewing Amari, I believe we have an opportunity to raise this next generation of Black boys to be next-level innovators.

[Troy]

56 minutes ago, Mel Hopkins said:

Does illiteracy mean dumb and ignorant?

No, it does not. But lack of access to information due  to illiteracy can. 
 

I have no issues with what Chad put together. The reality for our kids in poorer underserved communities is different and will less likely be served by Chads recommendation. Perhaps a prompt factoring in legacy of racism would be better
 

I’m a much better coder thanks to ChatGPT, but if I knew nothing about coding it would not be helpful at all. You have to know enough to ask the right questions and evaluate the responses.

 

The people best able to do this will have some education and that is the point of my post. Our lack of education

 

 

 

[ProfD]

15 hours ago, Troy said:

The people best able to do this will have some education and that is the point of my post. Our lack of education

A literacy rate of 88% on average would suggest that Black folks are not lacking in education.  We are lacking in opportunities.

 

We have not built enough of a Black economic infrastructure to insure that our people can be gainfully employed without having to rely on the dominant society. 

 

AI is going put to white folks out of work.  The trickle down effect will be brutal especially for the most educated Black folks with no businesses.

[Troy]

@ProfD I think the issue I’m is being clouded by your 88% stat. The educators is spoke to are talking about high school graduates now. The stats you shared is not capturing this cohort.
 

Also, if you can cite a source for your 88% stat, I’d like to read more—thanks!

 

Agreed we are too busy waiting on a check rather than writing them.

 

In the early days of my business I was excited (seriously) about opening a business account with Carver Bank. I knew the features would not be as robust as they would be with a much larger bank, but I was living in Harlem and I was gonna do business with my people!

 

Do you know Carver would not give me an account!?  They would not take my money, complaining about one of my documents. My feelings were hurt. I went to Bank of America the same afternoon and they opened a business account without an issue! I’ve been with BofA over 20 years.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Troy said:

@ProfD I think the issue I’m is being clouded by your 88% stat. The educators is spoke to are talking about high school graduates now. The stats you shared is not capturing this cohort.
 

The 88% I quoted is average literacy rate for AfroAmericans across the board.

1 hour ago, Troy said:

Also, if you can cite a source for your 88% stat, I’d like to read more—thanks!

https://wordsrated.com/african-american-literacy-statistics/

 

1 hour ago, Troy said:

Do you know Carver would not give me an account!?

A great example of how our economic infrastructure is severely lacking.

1 hour ago, Troy said:

I went to Bank of America the same afternoon and they opened a business account without an issue! I’ve been with BofA over 20 years.

Ultimately, that's what many folks end up having to do.

 

I'm fortunate enough to live in an area with a solid AfroAmerican Bank. They have been  excellent to me over a couple decades and counting. 

[Chevdove]

On 5/3/2024 at 2:41 PM, Troy said:

just create a free account with chatGPT https://chatgpt.com/ and start asking it questions you can for pretty in depth. That is how I got started.

 

 There are many tools available that provide a variety of tools.

 

Thank you @Troy. clicked the link and ask a few questions. 

I still do not completely understand the big difference in just not asking a search engine though.

I also don't understand why people say that AI will put some people out of work.

 

The first question I ask was, 'What is AI'?

There were four bullet points, and one was that AI could mean the chemical symbol of Aluminum and another was for the name Alan. 

Then I ask what is the definition of 'black'?

And there were bullet points one of which was referring to color and another about race category. 

The response goes on to explain that the answers may evolve. 

The reason why I decided to ask about 'black' was to see if it gave a deeper response because my deep research about this word

goes in more depth and I just wondered if AI would give more. 

My deep research of this word connects it to the ancient Chaldeans and their major symbolism of the BULLOCK; the Black bull. 

 

 

 

[Mel Hopkins]

15 hours ago, Chevdove said:

I still do not completely understand the big difference in just not asking a search engine though.

I also don't understand why people say that AI will put some people out of work.

@Chevdove Artificial Intelligence's Large Language Model can operate as a search engine (kind of), but its primary function, for now, is more of a tool to assist you in tertiary tasks. (for now ) 

"AI LLM, or Artificial Intelligence Large Language Models, are advanced AI systems trained to understand and generate human-like text based on the input they receive. They function by processing large amounts of text data and learning patterns and relationships within that data. 

Overall, both tools (LLM and search engines) are valuable for information retrieval and processing, but they serve different purposes and are designed with different capabilities in mind. AI LLMs offer more interactive and creative capabilities, while search engines excel at locating specific, up-to-date information on the web."

As @Troy mentioned, it has made him a better coder.  AI can write software code.  I've had it code a brand-new website for me. Guess what? I don't know how to code.

Depending on your interests, you'll prepare prompts to communicate with AI - much like the questions you would pose to yourself in deep research. For example, you would prepare a thesis statement and ask AI to share findings. For instance, I know nothing about the Chaldeans or their practices, but I started the fact-finding. Here's a link to my session. 

https://chat.openai.com/share/9a6b1c0a-930a-47d8-acdd-7059aff6eac6  (It's public)


You can start with your primary question as a prompt. Define AI, then compare and contrast the differences between Chat GPT and an online search engine. This link contains my prompt where I ask Chat GPT to compare and contrast AI LLM and Online Search engines.  Note: Like in any conversation, the best prompts get the best results. 

https://chat.openai.com/share/049c4047-83c0-4918-9b2d-3b4a64eba7a9  (It's public too)

 

Also, AI will replace jobs because it works at varying levels, such as Machine Learning and Deep Learning. The latter function as artificial neural networks, which means machine learning, especially deep learning, operates like a human brain but is much faster. 

 

You didn't ask me, but I don't want any of us left behind in this next phase of emerging technology.   
 

 

 

[Chevdove]

On 5/8/2024 at 3:08 PM, Mel Hopkins said:

 

 

You didn't ask me, but I don't want any of us left behind in this next phase of emerging technology.   

 

Thank you! @Mel Hopkins

This is extremely helpful.

I've read over this post several times and even shared it with relatives.

Now I do not feel so intimidated about AI LLM and have spent some time posing questions. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mel Hopkins]

6 hours ago, Chevdove said:

 

Thank you! @Mel Hopkins

This is extremely helpful.

I've read over this post several times and even shared it with relatives.

Now I do not feel so intimidated about AI LLM and have spent some time posing questions. 

 

 

 

 

 

You are most welcome! I don't have anyone to bounce off my wild ideas and questions, so I enjoy creating Chat GPT prompts. It also helps me clarify my thinking. 

[ProfD]

Enjoy exploring AI.  I'll let you all know when it's time to come outside and do some real work.