Pioneer1 Posted May 26 Report Posted May 26 frankster There is no genetic basis for Races among humans.... There absolutely IS, and a reputable source (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) supports this. Quote 3 biology : a group within a species that is distinguishable (as morphologically, genetically, or behaviorally) from others of the same species https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › race When did you give me your source... your personal observation???? Again, the Merriam-Webster dictionary is one. Quote Race May 1, 2025 — : any one of the groups that humans are often divided into based on physical traits regarded as common among people of shared ancestry. https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › race A race is any one of the GROUPS...meaning there are MULTIPLE. What does the paper says caused the divergence or disparities? It doesn't matter. It confirms that MULTIPLE RACES exist. ...stop trying to change the focus. The divergence in mortality is not caused by races but by access to interventions Doesn't matter. It still acknowledges races (plural). That's the point. According to the paper what led to adverse therapeutic decision? What is meant by Adverse therapeutic decision? Irrelevant, this scientific journal acknowledges multiple races. Recognize and accept this fact. Why would one group of women experience lower screening rates? What could be the results of lower screening for women suggested by the paper? I don't know and neither do you. But what we DO know is that it acknowledges multiple races. Don't act like you don't know now. In Short the problem is not race but racism. Yeah, yeah, yeah...and Wakanda Forever...anyway...... This proves that SCIENCE ACKNOWLEDGES MULTIPLE RACES. ...as I said.
Troy Posted May 26 Report Posted May 26 @Pioneer1 what do think about this video that @frankster shared? Based upon your reckoning; Is one twin "Black" and the other "white;" Are they both white; or Are they both Black? Chose on 1, 2 or 3 please.
Pioneer1 Posted May 26 Report Posted May 26 Troy I didn't watch it and I didn't care to. Watch it for what??? He's simply trying to change the focus of the subject (between us...lol....not of this thread) of our debate and add a whole lot of NOTHING to muddy up the conversation and take it to another direction. I've PROVEN with both tertiary and scientific references that multiple races exist and are acknowledged. So what are we still arguing????
frankster Posted May 26 Report Posted May 26 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster There is no genetic basis for Races among humans.... There absolutely IS, and a reputable source (Merriam-Webster Dictionary) supports this. You have yet to tell me what distinguishable means? 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: When did you give me your source... your personal observation???? Again, the Merriam-Webster dictionary is one. 3 biology : a group within a species that is distinguishable (as morphologically, genetically, or behaviorally) from others of the same species https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › race Race May 1, 2025 — : any one of the groups that humans are often divided into based on physical traits regarded as common among people of shared ancestry. https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › race Expand 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: A race is any one of the GROUPS...meaning there are MULTIPLE. society can have as many races as they want...all of them being social constructs 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: What does the paper says caused the divergence or disparities? It doesn't matter. It confirms that MULTIPLE RACES exist. ...stop trying to change the focus. it does...it demonstrates that the disparities you see is not cause by race....but by access to treatment.. Race is not the cause 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The divergence in mortality is not caused by races but by access to interventions Doesn't matter. It still acknowledges races (plural). That's the point. It does....They used race as a means of classification and found that the divergence was not based in or on the biology of race.....but in the social construction and stratification of society in terms of access to care. 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: According to the paper what led to adverse therapeutic decision? What is meant by Adverse therapeutic decision? Irrelevant, this scientific journal acknowledges multiple races. Recognize and accept this fact. Yes...as a social construct 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Why would one group of women experience lower screening rates? What could be the results of lower screening for women suggested by the paper? I don't know and neither do you. But what we DO know is that it acknowledges multiple races. Don't act like you don't know now. Yes....as a social construct 5 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: In Short the problem is not race but racism. Yeah, yeah, yeah...and Wakanda Forever...anyway...... This proves that SCIENCE ACKNOWLEDGES MULTIPLE RACES. ...as I said. Your link is not a support of race is biology...if any thing it is a support of racism has medical effects on its victims The belief of race as a biological concept with human populations having a distinct biological basis is unconsciously embedded in many individuals’ thinking (Lee, et al., 2021). These individuals think population differences in health and intelligence are the result of immutable, biologically based differences between ‘racial’ groups, despite overwhelming evidence that racial groups are not genetically discrete, reliably measured or scientifically meaningful (Smedley & Smedley, 2005). Because racial groups are not genetically discrete, when the term ‘race’ is discussed, we are referring to the self‐identified races (socio‐cultural constructs)—and not race as a biological entity...... The misunderstanding of race as biology is not limited to the United States as this has been documented globally...... "Misunderstanding of race as biology may be due, in part, to the observation that race is often operationalized as a biological concept in some medical school's teaching, and some existing educational materials may reinforce institutional racism within medical education (Johnson et al., 2017; Tsai et al., 2016). An analysis of a question bank for Step 1 of the United States Medical Licensing Examination revealed questions that contained racially biased information (Ripp & Braun, 2017). Similarly, a review of lecture slides at a major medical school demonstrated that race was almost always presented as a biological risk factor and framed racial health disparities as inherent biological differences (Tsai et al., 2016). A review of case studies from a medical school in the United States revealed a strong racial bias when describing the patient and pathology (Johnson et al., 2017). Thus, reports suggest an implicit bias, discrimination and racism embedded in our medical education curricula (Ansell & McDonald, 2015) which may contribute to the misunderstanding of race as biology. It must also be noted that a substantial number of faculty members surveyed from 12 colleges and universities across the United States reported that racial bias may be affecting student's mental health (Lipson, 2023). Overall, 25% of faculty believe their institution is ‘hostile’ or ‘somewhat hostile’ toward students of colour. A total of 58% of Hispanic or Latinx faculty, 39% of Black or African American faculty, and 24% of Asian or Asian American faculty believe their institution is ‘hostile’ or ‘somewhat hostile’ toward students of colour." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11291859/
Pioneer1 Posted May 26 Report Posted May 26 frankster You have yet to tell me what distinguishable means? I GAVE you the link to the dictionary several times already: https://www.merriam-webster.com Look it up, lol. society can have as many races as they want...all of them being social constructs Oh, so NOW you finally acknowledge that there ARE multiple races! Looks like (ProfD says: Reads Like...lol) we're making progress on this subject. it does...it demonstrates that the disparities you see is not cause by race....but by access to treatment.. Race is not the cause Nor is it the issue. The issue is whether or not science acknowledges more than one race and I just proved to you that it did. Take that "L" and move on...... Your link is not a support of race is biology...if any thing it is a support of racism has medical effects on its victims Racism comes from the FACT that there are multiple races to discriminate against. If there was only ONE race...racism wouldn't exist. If all ice cream tasted the same...people wouldn't have a preference.
Troy Posted May 27 Report Posted May 27 4 hours ago, frankster said: existing educational materials may reinforce institutional racism within medical education Again, the time should be dispense with we are far better off, not using it at all. 9 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: didn't watch it and I didn't care to. Watch it for what??? To put the women in racial buckets,. OK don’t watch the video, you don’t need to watch it. You can answer my question based upon the thumbnail image. Put each woman in one of the two racial buckets, black or white. Can you do that? It will help me, understand your reasoning.
Pioneer1 Posted May 27 Report Posted May 27 1 hour ago, Troy said: Put each woman in one of the two racial buckets, black or white. Can you do that? Why? You said that you...(like frankster USED TO...lol)....believe in only ONE race, not two or multiple. So wouldn't that be a waste of time and energy until you've changed your mind?
frankster Posted May 27 Report Posted May 27 14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster You have yet to tell me what distinguishable means? I GAVE you the link to the dictionary several times already: https://www.merriam-webster.com Look it up, lol. I know what it means.. Just not sure if you do.... 14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: society can have as many races as they want...all of them being social constructs Oh, so NOW you finally acknowledge that there ARE multiple races! Looks like (ProfD says: Reads Like...lol) we're making progress on this subject. The socially constructed racial categorizations can be broken down to how ever society dictates... None of that will change the genetic truth...that there is only One Race - The Human Race. 14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: It does...it demonstrates that the disparities you see is not cause by race....but by access to treatment.. Race is not the cause Nor is it the issue. The issue is whether or not science acknowledges more than one race and I just proved to you that it did. Science does not acknowledge race... Racist societies do acknowledge race.... 14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Take that "L" and move on...... whatever that means 14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Your link is not a support of race is biology...if any thing it is a support of racism has medical effects on its victims Racism comes from the FACT that there are multiple races to discriminate against. If there was only ONE race...racism wouldn't exist. No.....it did not. Racism came from the fact that.... Rich (Land Owning)Europeans did not want Poor and Indentured Europeans and Enslaved Africans rebeling together 14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If all ice cream tasted the same...people wouldn't have a preference. did I say all Ice cream taste the same???? 10 hours ago, Troy said: Again, the time should be dispense with we are far better off, not using it at all. To put the women in racial buckets,. OK don’t watch the video, you don’t need to watch it. You can answer my question based upon the thumbnail image. Put each woman in one of the two racial buckets, black or white. Can you do that? It will help me, understand your reasoning. I think @Pioneer1 is incapable of being honest around race and racial issues... Which strikes me as a problem only certain types of people have.... Whites Self hating Africans.... Republicans...esp Maga/gots
ProfD Posted May 27 Author Report Posted May 27 I enjoy tennis match between my brothas @Pioneer1 and @frankster as they go back and forth in a thread. As I've mentioned before, as long as humans can procreate and reproduce among themselves regardless of race (color), they are genetically the same. The color differences defined as race are for social, political and economic reasons. I'm perfectly fine with delineation. My biggest concern is how do Black folks move up from the bottom of the totem pole. White folks aren't going to just give Black folks a fair seat at the table of power.
Pioneer1 Posted May 27 Report Posted May 27 frankster I know what it means.. Just not sure if you do.... Does it MATTER, for the sake of this discussion? The socially constructed racial categorizations can be broken down to how ever society dictates... None of that will change the genetic truth...that there is only One Race - The Human Race. You're contradicting yourself. First you say that society can determine as many racial categories as they want, then you turn around and declare there is only ONE race. That's like telling somebody you can pick any flavor of ice cream you like, because there is really only ONE flavor. And that's the flavor of ice cream. Make that make sense. Science does not acknowledge race... Quote Yet from 1992 to 2016, the incidence of HR-negative breast cancer decreased among women of all races in the United States, and there was considerable variation in the rate of decline among racial groups and among women of the same race from different geographic regions. This article was published on June 18, 2022, at NEJM.org. The Emergence of the Racial Disparity in U.S. Breast-Cancer Mortality | New England Journal of Medicine You're simply WRONG, homie. whatever that means It means accept your Loss -the fact that you're wrong about race. And move on. No.....it did not. Racism came from the fact that.... Rich (Land Owning)Europeans did not want Poor and Indentured Europeans and Enslaved Africans rebeling together Racism and the idea of race did NOT start in Europe. It has been acknowledged FAR longer than that. Arabs acknowledged race and racism. Indians in India acknowledged race and racism. You can THINK you're the same as them all you want, but White folks KNOW they aren't you and you aren't them and will not hesitate to remind you of this fact if you veer too far to the left, lol. I think @Pioneer1 is incapable of being honest around race and racial issues... Look who's "typing"...lol. First you didn't accept the idea of races, THEN after I presented the definition to you you finally succumb to logic and accepted it. You run around....without references...declaring that there is only ONE race. But when I presented MORE facts to you that multiple races exist, you turn around and say that society can dictate as many races as it likes. You say science does NOT acknowledge race, but when I present scientific literature to you that prove that it does...you start getting specific and claim you meant GENETICALLY. Man you've changed your positions in this thread so many times I'm starting to wonder is this a discussion board or a porn flick.
frankster Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster I know what it means.. Just not sure if you do.... Does it MATTER, for the sake of this discussion? It does.... Leaving you no hiding place... you can run....now you closinging your eyes 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: The socially constructed racial categorizations can be broken down to how ever society dictates... None of that will change the genetic truth...that there is only One Race - The Human Race. You're contradicting yourself. First you say that society can determine as many racial categories as they want, then you turn around and declare there is only ONE race. Try as you might....to confuse the issue You only confusing yourself....in away that is willfull ignorance - I understand it is a personal struggle of yours.. 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: That's like telling somebody you can pick any flavor of ice cream you like, because there is really only ONE flavor. And that's the flavor of ice cream. Make that make sense. The above makes no sense....whatsoever. 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Science does not acknowledge race... You're simply WRONG, homie. Cool then see you next time when you have better arguments and at least a shred of scientific evidence for Races as a genetic reality 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: whatever that means It means accept your Loss -the fact that you're wrong about race. And move on. There is One geneitic human race.... All other idea about races or race is social constructed. 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: No.....it did not. Racism came from the fact that.... Rich (Land Owning)Europeans did not want Poor and Indentured Europeans and Enslaved Africans rebeling together Racism and the idea of race did NOT start in Europe. It has been acknowledged FAR longer than that. Arabs acknowledged race and racism. Indians in India acknowledged race and racism. Prove it provide a link and post the relevant part... 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: You can THINK you're the same as them all you want, but White folks KNOW they aren't you and you aren't them and will not hesitate to remind you of this fact if you veer too far to the left, lol. No they are of African descent....we are of the same human family. True....those of us who are racist tend to base treatment on skin color. 40 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: I think @Pioneer1 is incapable of being honest around race and racial issues... Look who's "typing"...lol. First you didn't accept the idea of races, THEN after I presented the definition to you you finally succumb to logic and accepted it. He continues even now with lies... 56 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: You run around....without references...declaring that there is only ONE race. But when I presented MORE facts to you that multiple races exist, you turn around and say that society can dictate as many races as it likes. You say science does NOT acknowledge race, but when I present scientific literature to you that prove that it does...you start getting specific and claim you meant GENETICALLY. Man you've changed your positions in this thread so many times I'm starting to wonder is this a discussion board or a porn flick. You so confused
Troy Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 14 hours ago, frankster said: I think @Pioneer1 is incapable of being honest around race and racial issues... I think he views himself as being honest. But he is actively avoiding my simple question of identifying the races of the two little girls in the video. He’s avoiding that question because then he he’d be confronted with an obvious problem that his logic cannot reconcile. 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Arabs acknowledged race and racism. Indians in India acknowledged race and racism. Racism is alive and well no one is disputing that as far as I can tell. @Pioneer1 You have never produced scientific proof of a genetic basis for race. All you have produced are documents showing the use of the word race. You were presented with information explaining why race is still used and how problematic it is. I appreciate that accepting the fact that there is no genetic basis for the racial categories You adhere to so fervently would change much of the way you view the world. This must be really hard for you. Much harder than it was when you learned that Santa Claus was not real. It’s called cognitive dissonance. It’s natural for humans to try to avoid this mental state. But if you do it too often to stridently, you become delusional divorced from reality. Have you ever met someone who truly believes the world is flat. I have. Your reasoning is just the same as flat-earthers … Hey @Pioneer1 you don’t believe the world is flat now do you?
frankster Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 14 hours ago, Troy said: I think he views himself as being honest. But he is actively avoiding my simple question of identifying the races of the two little girls in the video. He’s avoiding that question because then he he’d be confronted with an obvious problem that his logic cannot reconcile. Yes.... It is very apparent he is struggling with an Internal Conflict...Rooted in Confusion - Involving word Meaning Usage and Context. There is no shame in that 14 hours ago, Troy said: Racism is alive and well no one is disputing that as far as I can tell. @Pioneer1 You have never produced scientific proof of a genetic basis for race. All you have produced are documents showing the use of the word race. You were presented with information explaining why race is still used and how problematic it is. I appreciate that accepting the fact that there is no genetic basis for the racial categories You adhere to so fervently would change much of the way you view the world. This must be really hard for you. Much harder than it was when you learned that Santa Claus was not real. It’s called cognitive dissonance. It’s natural for humans to try to avoid this mental state. But if you do it too often to stridently, you become delusional divorced from reality. LOL Your diagnosis and prognosis is a spot on.. 14 hours ago, Troy said: Have you ever met someone who truly believes the world is flat. I have. Your reasoning is just the same as flat-earthers … Hey @Pioneer1 you don’t believe the world is flat now do you It would not surprise me....
Troy Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 2 hours ago, frankster said: It would not surprise me.... LOL! Let's see what he says -- it would explain a lot! I was floored the first time I met a flat earther (yes, I've met more than one), a brother. I did not debate him as that level of delusion reflects a mental state, I'm ill-prepared to deal with. Otherwise, he seemed perfectly normal, cool even.
Pioneer1 Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 Time out. Hold up. Troy I don't think you're being fair in your participation of this discussion. You pop in and out of it at your convenience and ONLY to take shots at my position. I love discussing and debating with my brother....frankster....but he's a straight up Bible thumper; yet despite his scriptural/biblical views NOT ONE line of his has been criticized by you. You're quiet as a church mouse and pretend like you don't even see what he's typed, but then turn around and zero in on MY position that there is more than one race and fight it tooth and nail. You pop in...pop out....pop in...take a shot...pop out...chime in to take a shot again....disappear. You ask for proof that there are multiple races. I give it to you in the form of articles and links to journals. You either ignore the part I highlight and focus on some other part of the journal having little to do with the discussion OR you simply stop posting and I don't hear from you on the subject until months later when it comes up again. You only chime in to instigate against my position because you simply don't like the idea of their being more than one race. I'm a "flat earther" or believing in multiple races but frankster who believes IN the Bible...is not? Seriously???? It doesn't matter how many good points I make....you IGNORE them. No matter what evidence is presented to you you WILL NOT accept it...and you know it. You are NOT being fair and you are openly displaying your bias. frankster I'm suspending my participation in this discussion UNTIL Troy decides he wants to be FAIR and not pop in to hit a lick and throw a punch then duck back out into the crowd.
Troy Posted May 29 Report Posted May 29 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: It doesn't matter how many good points I make....you IGNORE them I don’t debate or argue with people about their religious beliefs, as they have nothing to do with reason or logic it’s a matter of faith. I tried a reason with you about the issue of race, but I’m beginning to see it’s a matter of faith with you as well. To someone who’s religious telling them that science clearly shows that man was not on the planet at the same time as the dinosaurs or that the Earth is more than 6000 years old is meaningless. Still. do you believe the Earth is flat?
frankster Posted May 29 Report Posted May 29 14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Time out. Hold up. Troy I don't think you're being fair in your participation of this discussion. You pop in and out of it at your convenience and ONLY to take shots at my position. I love discussing and debating with my brother....frankster....but he's a straight up Bible thumper; yet despite his scriptural/biblical views NOT ONE line of his has been criticized by you. You're quiet as a church mouse and pretend like you don't even see what he's typed, but then turn around and zero in on MY position that there is more than one race and fight it tooth and nail. You pop in...pop out....pop in...take a shot...pop out...chime in to take a shot again....disappear. You ask for proof that there are multiple races. I give it to you in the form of articles and links to journals. You either ignore the part I highlight and focus on some other part of the journal having little to do with the discussion OR you simply stop posting and I don't hear from you on the subject until months later when it comes up again. You only chime in to instigate against my position because you simply don't like the idea of their being more than one race. I'm a "flat earther" or believing in multiple races but frankster who believes IN the Bible...is not? Seriously???? It doesn't matter how many good points I make....you IGNORE them. No matter what evidence is presented to you you WILL NOT accept it...and you know it. You are NOT being fair and you are openly displaying your bias @Pioneer1 you cracking me up….are you calling foul????? 14 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster I'm suspending my participation in this discussion UNTIL Troy decides he wants to be FAIR and not pop in to hit a lick and throw a punch then duck back out into the crowd. Cool Whatever reason or excuse you want to use…. Whenever you are ready to resume…… Hopefully I am still around… I enjoy our discussion And I also enjoy @Troy and @ProfD participation. 9 hours ago, Troy said: I don’t debate or argue with people about their religious beliefs, as they have nothing to do with reason or logic it’s a matter of faith. I tried a reason with you about the issue of race, but I’m beginning to see it’s a matter of faith with you as well. To someone who’s religious telling them that science clearly shows that man was not on the planet at the same time as the dinosaurs or that the Earth is more than 6000 years old is meaningless. Still. do you believe the Earth is flat? Okay just to be clear I am not religious… I do respect Scriptures….as a source of Ancient Knowledge. The bible is Not the Only Scripture. The Earth is much older than 6000 yr old Man and Dinosaurs coexisted on earth in the distant past…..for that matter some dinosaurs might still be here. I think he said. “I am a flat earther”…..if that is the case it explains a lot
ProfD Posted May 29 Author Report Posted May 29 20 minutes ago, frankster said: Man and Dinosaurs coexisted on earth in the distant past…..for that matter some dinosaurs might still be here. Bro, that's material for a whole new thread. You cannot just do drive-by claiming dinosaurs might still be here.
frankster Posted May 29 Report Posted May 29 4 hours ago, ProfD said: Bro, that's material for a whole new thread. You cannot just do drive-by claiming dinosaurs might still be here. shots fired!?!? 4 hours ago, ProfD said: Bro, that's material for a whole new thread. You cannot just do drive-by claiming dinosaurs might still be here. Start the thread then 1
Pioneer1 Posted May 29 Report Posted May 29 Troy I don’t debate or argue with people about their religious beliefs, as they have nothing to do with reason or logic it’s a matter of faith. Your denial of multiple races is right up there with them, because it's a matter of WISHFUL THINKING. You think racism comes from people being separated and categorized into racial categories. It wouldn't matter WHAT you called yourself, White folks would still treat you the same. I tried a reason with you about the issue of race, but I’m beginning to see it’s a matter of faith with you as well. Man...... Still. do you believe the Earth is flat? NO Why don't you ask the resident Bible Believer that question? You may be surprised at the answer. Oh I forgot, the ONLY reason you participate in this discussion is to point out how "wrong" I am on separate races...lol. frankster Whatever reason or excuse you want to use…. Whenever you are ready to resume…… Hopefully I am still around… With what you're smoking...you ain't getting off the couch anytime soon, lol. I enjoy our discussion And I also enjoy @Troy and @ProfD participation. I enjoy their participation too...as long as they show a degree of fairness. If I make a good point, they acknowledge it. If you make a good point, they acknowledge it. That's fair. Don't sit back and be silent at everything YOU say for three weeks but then when I say something he disagrees with NOW he gets involved in the discussion and links up with you to "do battle" against the issue. Also, don't demand something of me and when I provide it...you ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist. You and Troy operate out of the same "denial" play book. No matter how many articles I provide that CLEARLY prove what I'm saying, yall just ignore it and focus on some mundane irrelevant part of the article dealing with culture or ethnicity. That shit gets old man. How are we supposed to gain any ground and make progress in the discussion if I present CLEAR proof of something and it's simple denied or ignored and the opposition continues???? I do respect Scriptures….as a source of Ancient Knowledge Lol...here we go again.
Troy Posted May 30 Report Posted May 30 14 hours ago, ProfD said: Bro, that's material for a whole new thread. LOL! 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: if I present CLEAR proof of something and it's simple denied or ignored and the opposition continues???? Dude, your proof wasn’t proof and the reason for it not being proof was already explained.
frankster Posted May 30 Report Posted May 30 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Whatever reason or excuse you want to use…. Whenever you are ready to resume…… Hopefully I am still around… With what you're smoking...you ain't getting off the couch anytime soon, lol. Not to worry i will for you... 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I enjoy our discussion And I also enjoy @Troy and @ProfD participation. I enjoy their participation too...as long as they show a degree of fairness. If I make a good point, they acknowledge it. If you make a good point, they acknowledge it. That's fair. What if you don't make a good point....should they still acknowledge as a good point??? 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Don't sit back and be silent at everything YOU say for three weeks but then when I say something he disagrees with NOW he gets involved in the discussion and links up with you to "do battle" against the issue. Also, don't demand something of me and when I provide it...you ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist. You and Troy operate out of the same "denial" play book. No matter how many articles I provide that CLEARLY prove what I'm saying, yall just ignore it and focus on some mundane irrelevant part of the article dealing with culture or ethnicity. That shit gets old man. How are we supposed to gain any ground and make progress in the discussion if I present CLEAR proof of something and it's simple denied or ignored and the opposition continues???? Race only exist as a social construct Dude....you presented a study on breast cancer as proof that races as biology and genetics is real and true. I presented with a study on Race...."Race and genetics versus ‘race’ in genetics" If we get a group of lawyers and another group of mechanics and do a breast cancer study on the disparities between the two.....How you going to arrive at the fact that lawyers and mechanics have different set of genes and or biology To figure that out you have to do a genetic or biological study. Lastly I recommend you find some who is erudite that you trust go to them and ask them to read the part of the thread dealing with Race and tell you who is making sense and who is talking crap....please keep it anonymous as to who you are 6 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I do respect Scriptures….as a source of Ancient Knowledge Lol...here we go again. Yes....I do Everything we know today is built on the foundation laid down by our Ancestors.
Pioneer1 Posted June 1 Report Posted June 1 frankster What if you don't make a good point....should they still acknowledge as a good point??? Do you want to compare "popular contributor" points from this site? I don't even see you on the list. Race only exist as a social construct It DOESN'T MATTER how it exists...IT EXISTS. It's a Reality! Do you understand this????? Dude....you presented a study on breast cancer as proof that races as biology and genetics is real and true. Because doctors and scientist ACCEPT and REALIZE that it is. Wishful thinkers like YOU don't want to.
frankster Posted June 1 Report Posted June 1 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster What if you don't make a good point....should they still acknowledge as a good point??? Do you want to compare "popular contributor" points from this site? I don't even see you on the list. True....you are here longer and contribute a lot more than I do So for you it is about Loyalty and payback ......not Truth You are expecting Troy to defend and support you....even when you are wrong? 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Race only exist as a social construct It DOESN'T MATTER how it exists...IT EXISTS. It's a Reality! Do you understand this???? Yes...Race exist as a social construct - especially in racist and former racist societies Race has no genetic basis 3 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Dude....you presented a study on breast cancer as proof that races as biology and genetics is real and true. Because doctors and scientist ACCEPT and REALIZE that it is. Wishful thinkers like YOU don't want to. The science has already shown that race as a result of genetics do not exist.... Race as a result of a social construct does exist..... In the study you provided they are accepting using and dealing with race as a social construct... The study you link provided proof that the disparities in health outcome are a result of Access to treatment intervention tools and insurance etc.....not biology but racism
Pioneer1 Posted June 1 Report Posted June 1 frankster True....you are here longer and contribute a lot more than I do Well the reason I brought it up was..... If I weren't making good points in general, I wouldn't receive so many commendations. So why would I all of a sudden start falling off in THIS discussion? Why would I all of a sudden stop making sense and not making good points in this particular discussion? So is it that I'm not making good points in this discussion, or are the good points being IGNORED? So for you it is about Loyalty and payback ......not Truth For THIS discussion, no. Although I'm a very strong supporter and promoter of loyalty, that wasn't what my criticism was about. You are expecting Troy to defend and support you....even when you are wrong? Lol... I need no defense nor support from Troy or anybody else on this site. But what I DO expect from Troy...as well as anybody else...is a measure of fairness when it comes to commenting on and participating in discussions that are primarily between you and I. If you're going to sit back and watch....sit back and watch. If you're going to participate...participate. However if you're going to jump in and participate, I would like it if you're fair to BOTH of us. If you're going to call out where I'm wrong...call out where YOU'RE wrong. Don't just snuggle up with YOU and start giggling and pointing the finger at ME over a position you PERCEIVE to be erroneous like the multiple race issue but totally ignore the outlandish shit YOU be saying through out the discussion, lol. For example, when you said: Quote Posted May 10 Both Blacks and Whites did not know they were Black or White till they Arrive in the West...and became Aware of the 'Ideology of Racism that governs Western Society. That's not only wrong but down right silly in light of historical fact, yet who called you out on that statement? I don't expect unconditional support from anybody on this site, but I don't expect unconditional opposition either. Yes...Race exist as a social construct - especially in racist and former racist societies What are "former racist" societies? And can you give me an example of one? The study you link provided proof that the disparities in health outcome are a result of Access to treatment intervention tools and insurance etc.....not biology but racism I agree that racism is a major cause in those disparities. Different outcomes for the different RACES of women. In order to practice racism...that means MORE than one race must exist. You can't practice sexism, if only one sex exists. You can't practice religious intolerance if only one religion exists.
frankster Posted June 1 Report Posted June 1 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster True....you are here longer and contribute a lot more than I do Well the reason I brought it up was..... If I weren't making good points in general, I wouldn't receive so many commendations. The commendations I think are for posting and participating.....not as to whether or not your opinions are true accurate or good 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: So why would I all of a sudden start falling off in THIS discussion? Why would I all of a sudden stop making sense and not making good points in this particular discussion? Again ask some one who judgement you trust ask them to read the thread....refrain from telling them who you are Then ask that person who is making sense and why and what points are salient and relevant. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: So is it that I'm not making good points in this discussion, or are the good points being IGNORED? You are not making good points....stick to live conversation where no scientific proof is required or can be confirmed. Pre internet and we were having this discussion....you would be making great points to all within ear shot and you would be lauded. I on the other hand would be left saying....I read in a book saw in a magazine or journal, watch a documentary about it. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: So for you it is about Loyalty and payback ......not Truth For THIS discussion, no. Although I'm a very strong supporter and promoter of loyalty, that wasn't what my criticism was about. Ok 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You are expecting Troy to defend and support you....even when you are wrong? Lol... I need no defense nor support from Troy or anybody else on this site. But what I DO expect from Troy...as well as anybody else...is a measure of fairness when it comes to commenting on and participating in discussions that are primarily between you and I. Of course these are question that Troy should address...in the meantime I will ask you a few question. So you are asking him to play....Judge? or are you asking that he tries to play fair when he knows you are wrong/inaccurate? What about if Troy does not believe or totally disagree with what you are saying - should he hide or deny his own feelings and opinions? 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If you're going to sit back and watch....sit back and watch. If you're going to participate...participate. However if you're going to jump in and participate, I would like it if you're fair to BOTH of us. It is my opinion that anyone can participate to the level they want or do not want.. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If you're going to call out where I'm wrong...call out where YOU'RE wrong. I have not been wrong.....and I am sure Troy will and would if he thought I was wrong 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Don't just snuggle up with YOU and start giggling and pointing the finger at ME over a position you PERCEIVE to be erroneous like the multiple race issue but totally ignore the outlandish shit YOU be saying through out the discussion, lol. For example, when you said: That's not only wrong but down right silly in light of historical fact, yet who called you out on that statement? I don't expect unconditional support from anybody on this site, but I don't expect unconditional opposition either. That is a historical fact that many europeans historians have stated.... Most Europeans did not know they were white until they came to America....prior to that they thought of themselves in terms of nationals or ethnicities....most having never seeing Africans before coming here. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes...Race exist as a social construct - especially in racist and former racist societies What are "former racist" societies? And can you give me an example of one? Think about it.... if I keep telling you - your ego will force you to take offense and you will become defensive. So try and figure it out. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The study you link provided proof that the disparities in health outcome are a result of Access to treatment intervention tools and insurance etc.....not biology but racism I agree that racism is a major cause in those disparities. Different outcomes for the different RACES of women. Ok... The article said the disparities are a result of access.... 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: In order to practice racism...that means MORE than one race must exist. Yes....so you create races based on natural differences between groups of people...be it cultural religious place of origin etc Gingers(redheads) were persecuted in Europe for yrs. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You can't practice sexism, if only one sex exists. Homophobia is an example of same sex bias prejudice or discrimination. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You can't practice religious intolerance if only one religion exists. Different christian sects have been fighting and killing each other for yrs.
Pioneer1 Posted June 1 Report Posted June 1 frankster The commendations I think are for posting and participating.....not as to whether or not your opinions are true accurate or good You don't get them simply for participating, lol. You get them from people who like what you have to say and generally agree with it. Or in some cases to show empathy or confusion. So you are asking him to play....Judge? Well, he's doing that anyway whether I ask him or not....lol. or are you asking that he tries to play fair when he knows you are wrong/inaccurate? That is an illogical question because he doesn't "know" that I'm wrong or inaccurate. He...like you...don't like the idea of multiple races and refuses to accept them as a Reality. It's not "wrong"; it's simply a position that he...again like YOU...vehemently disagrees with. 3 + 3 =17 is WRONG Acceptance or rejection of multiple races is a disagreement What about if Troy does not believe or totally disagree with what you are saying - should he hide or deny his own feelings and opinions? If he does it with YOU then yes...he should do it with me also. Again...if. Perhaps he agrees with everything you've said though. If that's the case, then my criticisms are unwarranted. It is my opinion that anyone can participate to the level they want or do not want.. It's my opinion likewise. However there's a difference between what people CAN do and what people SHOULD do. I support the fact that people CAN participate whenever and however they please but they SHOULD be fair and unbiased in how they do so. I have not been wrong.....and I am sure Troy will and would if he thought I was wrong You've contradicted yourself several times. One of those positions HAD to be the wrong one...lol. In another thread you entertain the idea of humans living with dinosaurs and this involves time periods MILLIONS of years ago...yet you claim to believe in scriptures and those scriptures date man no longer than 10,000 years old. If that's not a contradiction I don't know what else is...lol. That is a historical fact that many europeans historians have stated.... Most Europeans did not know they were white until they came to America....prior to that they thought of themselves in terms of nationals or ethnicities....most having never seeing Africans before coming here. You didn't say anything about "most Europeans" you made a straight statement that Whites DID NOT KNOW they were White until coming West. That was clearly wrong. Think about it.... if I keep telling you - your ego will force you to take offense and you will become defensive. So try and figure it out. It's not some trick question; I seriously want to know. What societies USED TO BE racist but are now no longer racist? Ok... The article said the disparities are a result of access.... That's not the point of my presenting the article. It's just the point you're DWELLING on to try and deny the obvious. The point is the fact that medicine recognized these women were of various races. Something you said that science does NOT recognize. Yes....so you create races based on natural differences between groups of people. Facts. It's about time you "got" it...lol. Different christian sects have been fighting and killing each other for yrs. Good point. See! See how easy it is to admit when someone made a good point??? Homophobia is an example of same sex bias prejudice or discrimination. Huh?????? I'm talking about SEXISM...not same sex discrimination.
frankster Posted June 2 Report Posted June 2 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster The commendations I think are for posting and participating.....not as to whether or not your opinions are true accurate or good You don't get them simply for participating, lol. You get them from people who like what you have to say and generally agree with it. Or in some cases to show empathy or confusion. Ok....I stand corrected. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: So you are asking him to play....Judge? Well, he's doing that anyway whether I ask him or not....lol. I do not thinks so... I think he is expressing his own opinion... 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: or are you asking that he tries to play fair when he knows you are wrong/inaccurate? That is an illogical question because he doesn't "know" that I'm wrong or inaccurate. He...like you...don't like the idea of multiple races and refuses to accept them as a Reality. It's not "wrong"; it's simply a position that he...again like YOU...vehemently disagrees with. 3 + 3 =17 is WRONG Acceptance or rejection of multiple races is a disagreement Cool...so you want him to go against his own opinion? 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: What about if Troy does not believe or totally disagree with what you are saying - should he hide or deny his own feelings and opinions? If he does it with YOU then yes...he should do it with me also. Again...if. Perhaps he agrees with everything you've said though. If that's the case, then my criticisms are unwarranted. I think they are unwarranted. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: It is my opinion that anyone can participate to the level they want or do not want.. It's my opinion likewise. However there's a difference between what people CAN do and what people SHOULD do. I support the fact that people CAN participate whenever and however they please but they SHOULD be fair and unbiased in how they do so. Is it possible he Could think or believe he is being fair and unbiased? 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I have not been wrong.....and I am sure Troy will and would if he thought I was wrong You've contradicted yourself several times. One of those positions HAD to be the wrong one...lol. In another thread you entertain the idea of humans living with dinosaurs and this involves time periods MILLIONS of years ago...yet you claim to believe in scriptures and those scriptures date man no longer than 10,000 years old. If that's not a contradiction I don't know what else is...lol. The Bible is one scripture.....every religion and culture have their scriptures - I find value in them all. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: That is a historical fact that many europeans historians have stated.... Most Europeans did not know they were white until they came to America....prior to that they thought of themselves in terms of nationals or ethnicities....most having never seeing Africans before coming here. You didn't say anything about "most Europeans" you made a straight statement that Whites DID NOT KNOW they were White until coming West. That was clearly wrong. Please post and link quote. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Think about it.... if I keep telling you - your ego will force you to take offense and you will become defensive. So try and figure it out. It's not some trick question; I seriously want to know. What societies USED TO BE racist but are now no longer racist? 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Ok... The article said the disparities are a result of access.... That's not the point of my presenting the article. It's just the point you're DWELLING on to try and deny the obvious. The point is the fact that medicine recognized these women were of various races. Something you said that science does NOT recognize. Yes..... Just as how the definition of race also told you that politicians are a race. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes....so you create races based on natural differences between groups of people. Facts. It's about time you "got" it...lol. Yes....hence it is socially constructed. it has no basis in genetics or biology.. 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Different christian sects have been fighting and killing each other for yrs. Good point. See! See how easy it is to admit when someone made a good point??? No.....your point was "You can't practice religious intolerance if only one religion exists." They are of the same religion yet the war on each other....so you do not need two religions - to experience "Religious intolerance" 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Homophobia is an example of same sex bias prejudice or discrimination. Huh?????? I'm talking about SEXISM...not same sex discrimination. You do not need two sexes to practice intolerance against against sex.... "You can't practice sexism, if only one sex exists." Homophobia is intolerance prejudice or discrimination based on sex ...especially same sex....sexism Mysogyny is hatred of women So you ignored the gingers(redheads) persecution....did quite fit in your paradigm.
Pioneer1 Posted June 2 Report Posted June 2 frankster Cool...so you want him to go against his own opinion? That's his choice as is the case with anybody. I'll go against MY own opinion once clear knowledge and facts are introduced to me. How you EXPRESS that opinion...the timing and manner, is the issue. The Bible is one scripture.....every religion and culture have their scriptures - I find value in them all. So what scripture do you find value in that supports the idea that humans are millions of years old? Please post and link quote Back in May 10 in the 2nd page of this thread you said: Quote Both Blacks and Whites did not know they were Black or White till they Arrive in the West...and became Aware of the 'Ideology of Racism that governs Western Society. Here you made a clear and blanket statement. You didn't say "some Whites" or "Most Europeans" but Whites. That covers them in general. ...and again, this isn't a true statement because European Caucasians acknowledged their Whiteness for decades if not centuries before coming to the Americas. Just as how the definition of race also told you that politicians are a race. And????? No.....your point was "You can't practice religious intolerance if only one religion exists." They are of the same religion yet the war on each other....so you do not need two religions - to experience "Religious intolerance" Correct, and I acknowledged that. You do not need two sexes to practice intolerance against against sex.... "You can't practice sexism, if only one sex exists." Homophobia is intolerance prejudice or discrimination based on sex ...especially same sex....sexism Homophobia isn't based on sex (the adjective not the verb). It's based on sexual ORIENTATION/PREFERENCE.
frankster Posted June 2 Report Posted June 2 48 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Cool...so you want him to go against his own opinion? That's his choice as is the case with anybody. I'll go against MY own opinion once clear knowledge and facts are introduced to me. How you EXPRESS that opinion...the timing and manner, is the issue. Did you know that prior to this thread....that he had that opinion on race? You also knew that I shared that opinion on race? 48 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: The Bible is one scripture.....every religion and culture have their scriptures - I find value in them all. So what scripture do you find value in that supports the idea that humans are millions of years old? Hindu scriptures... 48 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Please post and link quote Back in May 10 in the 2nd page of this thread you said: Here you made a clear and blanket statement. You didn't say "some Whites" or "Most Europeans" but Whites. That covers them in general. ...and again, this isn't a true statement because European Caucasians acknowledged their Whiteness for decades if not centuries before coming to the Americas. Is this the quote: "Both Blacks and Whites did not know they were Black or White till they Arrive in the West...and became Aware of the 'Ideology of Racism that governs Western Society." The difference is Singular Historical Experience - Transatlantic/Triangular Slave Trade/Route and its effects and purposes." 48 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: Just as how the definition of race also told you that politicians are a race. And????? Politicians come in all skin colors and features with various backgrounds....not sharing all the same ancestory and most definitely not based in genetics or biology 48 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: No.....your point was "You can't practice religious intolerance if only one religion exists." They are of the same religion yet the war on each other....so you do not need two religions - to experience "Religious intolerance" Correct, and I acknowledged that. Good....even with christianity and Islam - they war with each other though they are of the same religion. 48 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said: You do not need two sexes to practice intolerance against against sex.... "You can't practice sexism, if only one sex exists." Homophobia is intolerance prejudice or discrimination based on sex ...especially same sex....sexism Homophobia isn't based on sex (the adjective not the verb). It's based on sexual ORIENTATION/PREFERENCE. It is based on sex....your own difinition just admitted to it
Troy Posted June 2 Report Posted June 2 On 6/1/2025 at 12:10 PM, frankster said: The science has already shown that race as a result of genetics do not exist.... Race as a result of a social construct does exist..... In the study you provided they are accepting using and dealing with race as a social construct... The study you link provided proof that the disparities in health outcome are a result of Access to treatment intervention tools and insurance etc.....not biology but racism Period. End of story. 'Nuff said. @Pioneer1 what specifically in the quoted statement you disagree with?
Pioneer1 Posted June 2 Report Posted June 2 5 hours ago, Troy said: @Pioneer1 what specifically in the quoted statement you disagree with? The part that is not true.
Pioneer1 Posted June 2 Report Posted June 2 frankster Did you know that prior to this thread....that he had that opinion on race? Yes. I've known this for years. And no amount of evidence PROOF I've presented to him has convinced him otherwise. His dial is SET on that station...lol. You also knew that I shared that opinion on race? No I don't recall going in depth with you over it but I thought you actually DID believe in multiple races. Hindu scriptures... Can you provide a quote (or quotes) from Hindu scriptures that clearly assert that humans are millions of years old? Is this the quote: "Both Blacks and Whites did not know they were Black or White till they Arrive in the West...and became Aware of the 'Ideology of Racism that governs Western Society." The difference is Singular Historical Experience - Transatlantic/Triangular Slave Trade/Route and its effects and purposes." Yes, that's the quote. You clearly spoke in general terms claiming Whites didn't know they were White until they arrived in the West. It is based on sex....your own difinition just admitted to it It's based on sexual PRERENCE. Sex and Sexual Preference are 2 different concepts. They often overlap, but are still separate.
frankster Posted June 3 Report Posted June 3 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Did you know that prior to this thread....that he had that opinion on race? Yes. I've known this for years. And no amount of evidence PROOF I've presented to him has convinced him otherwise. His dial is SET on that station...lol. Then why are you surprise by the stance he takes?? If the evidence you provided is similar to the one you provided in this thread...then I know why it is not convincing. Maybe you should try finding a scientific study on race specifically....that supports your point or opinion. 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You also knew that I shared that opinion on race? No I don't recall going in depth with you over it but I thought you actually DID believe in multiple races. Ok...I thought we had this discussion before 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Hindu scriptures... Can you provide a quote (or quotes) from Hindu scriptures that clearly assert that humans are millions of years old? If I find it....it will not be as convincing as when you find it yourself..... 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: s this the quote: "Both Blacks and Whites did not know they were Black or White till they Arrive in the West...and became Aware of the 'Ideology of Racism that governs Western Society." The difference is Singular Historical Experience - Transatlantic/Triangular Slave Trade/Route and its effects and purposes." Yes, that's the quote. You clearly spoke in general terms claiming Whites didn't know they were White until they arrived in the West. Yes I did....this opinion was directly influence by James Baldwin and Tim Wise - I adapted it to fit our discussion James Baldwin whiteness as a state of mind. Tim Wise Part 3 - The History of Whiteness 2 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: It is based on sex....your own difinition just admitted to it It's based on sexual PRERENCE. Sex and Sexual Preference are 2 different concepts. They often overlap, but are still separate. True....they do overlap - Intersectionality This is a real life example being used to refute the idea that you have to be a different sex(male vs female) to be hated as in sexism Males hate males who engage in certain type of sex....where they play the role of a woman What it shows is that you do not have to be a different sex to be hated because of your sex...as faux female are.
Troy Posted June 3 Report Posted June 3 4 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: The part that is not true. Yeah, you simply can’t do it can you? You’re too young to be so rigid in your thinking.
Pioneer1 Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 frankster Then why are you surprise by the stance he takes?? I'm not. If the evidence you provided is similar to the one you provided in this thread...then I know why it is not convincing. My point in providing those articles to him...as with you...is to offer PROOF that science accepts and deals with the concept of race as a Reality. That article and the others I've provided over the years accomplished that mission regardless as to how the information was accepted or rejected. Maybe you should try finding a scientific study on race specifically....that supports your point or opinion. Why? So you can work on your "denial skills" and find a way to dismiss THAT too? The name of YOUR game is "deny and deflect". DENY AND DEFLECT. First you deny something and when I present you with proof of it, you try to DEFLECT from it by pointing out something that has nothing to do with the actual proof I provided. Ok...I thought we had this discussion before Perhaps, but I don't recall it. This is a real life example being used to refute the idea that you have to be a different sex(male vs female) to be hated as in sexism Males hate males who engage in certain type of sex....where they play the role of a woman Then that's not sexism. If they are SPECIFYING the type of male they hate...then that means they don't hate males in general. So their hatred isn't geared towards a SEX but a PARTICUAL GROUP within that sex. What it shows is that you do not have to be a different sex to be hated because of your sex...as faux female are. As I said above, they aren't hated because of their sex but because of their behavior. A person of that same sex who assumes the role of a man and has sex with a woman will NOT be hated by that same person. One member of the male sex is hated. Another member of the male sex is accepted/loved. So it's not sexism, but something else factoring in. Troy Yeah, you simply can’t do it can you? You’re too young to be so rigid in your thinking. Man, what are you talking about....lol. I've shown you articles and given you definitions. If you're not convinced now that multiple races exist...you just don't want to be.
Troy Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 1 hour ago, Pioneer1 said: I've shown you articles and given you definitions. Again, those articles were addressed and @frankster I believe even provided you with information to explain why. Still, I'm not surprised you refuse to answer my question about the races of the twins ... it would expose that fact that any answer you give will violate your reasoning.
frankster Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Then why are you surprise by the stance he takes?? I'm not. Ok 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If the evidence you provided is similar to the one you provided in this thread...then I know why it is not convincing. My point in providing those articles to him...as with you...is to offer PROOF that science accepts and deals with the concept of race as a Reality. That article and the others I've provided over the years accomplished that mission regardless as to how the information was accepted or rejected. The Article deals with race as a Social Construct... 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Maybe you should try finding a scientific study on race specifically....that supports your point or opinion. Why? So you can work on your "denial skills" and find a way to dismiss THAT too? The name of YOUR game is "deny and deflect". DENY AND DEFLECT. First you deny something and when I present you with proof of it, you try to DEFLECT from it by pointing out something that has nothing to do with the actual proof I provided. It would support your ideas and lend credibility.... Do you know what a social construct is? if so please post and link you definition. 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Ok...I thought we had this discussion before Perhaps, but I don't recall it. Caught you.... 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: This is a real life example being used to refute the idea that you have to be a different sex(male vs female) to be hated as in sexism Males hate males who engage in certain type of sex....where they play the role of a woman Then that's not sexism. Yes it is sexism 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: If they are SPECIFYING the type of male they hate...then that means they don't hate males in general. So their hatred isn't geared towards a SEX but a PARTICUAL GROUP within that sex. Yes 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: What it shows is that you do not have to be a different sex to be hated because of your sex...as faux female are. As I said above, they aren't hated because of their sex but because of their behavior. Yes....they are hated for their sexual behavior 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: A person of that same sex who assumes the role of a man and has sex with a woman will NOT be hated by that same person. Not sure what you are saying here 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: One member of the male sex is hated. Usually male who have sexual relationships with other males are hated as a class/group. 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Another member of the male sex is accepted/loved. Yes.....because it is assumed they do not engage in sexual relationships with other males' I would not use the word love...as it is often confused or used in place of sex. 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: So it's not sexism, but something else factoring in. It is sexism I think you are confusing Mysogyny and Sexism... Please use your dictionary and post and link what you have found as to the definition of sexism... 11 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:
Pioneer1 Posted June 5 Report Posted June 5 Troy Again, those articles were addressed and @frankster I believe even provided you with information to explain why. The only thing frankster did was...like you...DEFLECT from the point of those articles. The point was that science/medicine DID recognize race and multiple races. frankster The Article deals with race as a Social Construct... And? It would support your ideas and lend credibility.... My credibility with who??? I've already said that multiple races are real and they exist. You said you didn't accept it. So I provided dictionary definitions as well as scientific journals PROVING to you that they do. Yet you still argue with me or deflect by calling it a "social construct"...as if that is supposed to absolve you of your error. Do you know what a social construct is? Does it matter? It's a reality whatever it is. Caught you.... Lol...I wasn't running anywhere TO be caught. I truly don't recall discussing the concept of "race" with you in depth. Yes it is sexism What's your definition of "sexism"??? Yes....they are hated for their sexual behavior They are often hated for their sexual ORIENTATION regardless of their behavior. They could be gay virgins...and still be hated and seen as queer. Not sure what you are saying here I'm saying that a man who has sex with a woman would NOT be hated. Which means a gay man isn't hated because he's a MAN, because if that were the case straight men would be hated as well. He's hated because of his sexual ORIENTATION...being gay. Usually male who have sexual relationships with other males are hated as a class/group. Yes. This isn't sexism. Other members of the same sex are NOT hated. It is sexism I think you are confusing Mysogyny and Sexism... I think you are.....confused, lol.
Troy Posted June 6 Report Posted June 6 On 6/4/2025 at 9:23 PM, Troy said: Still, I'm not surprised you refuse to answer my question about the races of the twins ... it would expose that fact that any answer you give will violate your reasoning. @Pioneer1?
frankster Posted June 6 Report Posted June 6 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster The Article deals with race as a Social Construct... And? It would support your ideas and lend credibility.... My credibility with who??? To your opinions....not with who 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I've already said that multiple races are real and they exist. Only as social constructs....not genetically 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You said you didn't accept it. As a genetic and biological fact....no I do not accept it 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: So I provided dictionary definitions as well as scientific journals PROVING to you that they do. Even Your dictionary and link agrees with me....it is not biology but social. 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yet you still argue with me or deflect by calling it a "social construct"...as if that is supposed to absolve you of your error. Making sure it is clear in your mind 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Do you know what a social construct is? Does it matter? It's a reality whatever it is. It does matter... In truth it is a Convention/(invention) or agreement that is imposed There is biological reality which are absolute and universally true and valid in all places and all the time Social Constructs are relative and temporary and not valid or true in all places and all the times 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Caught you.... Lol...I wasn't running anywhere TO be caught. I truly don't recall discussing the concept of "race" with you in depth. cool 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes it is sexism What's your definition of "sexism"??? I ask you first... then I will give you mine 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Yes....they are hated for their sexual behavior They are often hated for their sexual ORIENTATION regardless of their behavior. They could be gay virgins...and still be hated and seen as queer. Orientation is an act or process....hence behavior. look it up. Everywhere you run...you run into a brick wall - face the truth bro....LOL 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Not sure what you are saying here I'm saying that a man who has sex with a woman would NOT be hated. Which means a gay man isn't hated because he's a MAN, because if that were the case straight men would be hated as well. He's hated because of his sexual ORIENTATION...being gay. But he is still a man...thats hated by other men - that is same sex hate You can run but you cannot hide or getaway.....lol 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Usually male who have sexual relationships with other males are hated as a class/group. Yes. This isn't sexism. Other members of the same sex are NOT hated. Yes it is sexism....that is the thing about the truth - it is stubborn and gives no hiding place Then tell me your definition with link and post? 7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: It is sexism I think you are confusing Mysogyny and Sexism... I think you are.....confused, lol. Yet you will not provide a definition....I wander why - you running but you can't getaway from the truth
Pioneer1 Posted June 7 Report Posted June 7 Troy What question do you have that is so volatile...lol...that the answer would "violate" my reasoning? frankster Only as social constructs....not genetically So? You once rejected THAT...now you accept it. So we're making SOME progress, lol. Even Your dictionary and link agrees with me....it is not biology but social. If the dictionary agreed with YOU...the word "race" wouldn't be even IN it, lol. Social Constructs are relative and temporary and not valid or true in all places and all the times Well the social constructs of today are true for THIS time in THIS place. I ask you first... then I will give you mine Rather than giving you MY definition, how about I give you THE definition: Quote sexism noun [ U ] politics disapproving (actions based on) the belief that the members of one sex are less intelligent, able, skillful, etc. than the members of the other sex, especially that women are less able than men: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/sexism Orientation is an act or process....hence behavior. look it up. I did. And it turns out that you're WRONG...as is often the case, lol. The actual definition of orientation is: Quote orientation noun [ U ] the particular things that a person prefers, believes, thinks, or usually does: If you're still DIS-ORIENTED about the true meaning of "orientation", let me know...lol. But he is still a man...thats hated by other men - that is same sex hate But that's not sexism. You can run but you cannot hide or getaway.....lol Why would I want to run or hide or getaway from someone who obviously needs HELP...lol. I'm here for my dis-oriented brother. I wander why - you running but you can't getaway from the truth I KNOW why. You wander because you are dis-oriented...LOL. But we'll help you get on the right track and find your way back to where you need to be.
frankster Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: frankster Only as social constructs....not genetically So? You once rejected THAT...now you accept it. So we're making SOME progress, lol. Show copy post where I rejected race as a social construct? 18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Even Your dictionary and link agrees with me....it is not biology but social. If the dictionary agreed with YOU...the word "race" wouldn't be even IN it, lol. The dictionary does....agree with me 18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: Social Constructs are relative and temporary and not valid or true in all places and all the times Well the social constructs of today are true for THIS time in THIS place. Yes Currently science is tearing down those unjust and misleading suppositions and conventions 18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I ask you first... then I will give you mine Rather than giving you MY definition, how about I give you THE definition: sexism noun [ U ] politics disapproving (actions based on) the belief that the members of one sex are less intelligent, able, skillful, etc. than the members of the other sex, especially that women are less able than men: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/sexism First note it is an Action Second not the use of the word "especially" sexism noun sex·ism ˈsek-ˌsi-zəm 1 prejudice or discrimination based on sex especially : discrimination against women 2. behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexism 18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I did. Orientation is an act or process....hence behavior. look it up. I did. And it turns out that you're WRONG...as is often the case, lol. The actual definition of orientation is: Quote orientation noun [ U ] the particular things that a person prefers, believes, thinks, or usually does: If you're still DIS-ORIENTED about the true meaning of "orientation", let me know...lol. And it turns out that you're WRONG...as is often the case, lol. The actual definition of orientation is: If you're still DIS-ORIENTED about the true meaning of "orientation", let me know...lol. Your own definition has the term "usually does" in it that denotes action.. 18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: But he is still a man...thats hated by other men - that is same sex hate But that's not sexism. Yes it is....he is not fulfilling his social role. 18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: You can run but you cannot hide or getaway.....lol Why would I want to run or hide or getaway from someone who obviously needs HELP...lol. I'm here for my dis-oriented brother. Time to stand up and stop running. 18 hours ago, Pioneer1 said: I wander why - you running but you can't getaway from the truth I KNOW why. You wander because you are dis-oriented...LOL. But we'll help you get on the right track and find your way back to where you need to be. Me....you provide links that prove that orientation is an action
Pioneer1 Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 On 5/17/2025 at 11:15 AM, frankster said: I still do not accept the idea of Race That there is One Human Race....genetically and biologically Here you said you don't accept the idea of race....period. You didn't specify in this case. However in other cases you DID specify your acceptance of it as a social construct. Then you turn around and declare there is only on race and tie genetics and biology to it after denying it's genetic and biological component...lol. First note it is an Action Ok? Sexism is an action....like Racism. You are actively DO, or SAYING, or THINKING something to or about someone else. Now what's your point? Now you're muddying the waters here.... I said: He's hated because of his sexual ORIENTATION...being gay. You said: But he is still a man...thats hated by other men - that is same sex hate I said: But that's not sexism. You said: Yes it is....he is not fulfilling his social role. Refering to this definition: Quote 2. behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex Sexual orientation is NOT about your "social role" but who you PREFER to have sex with, regardless of what you actually do. Acting like a woman and having sex with another man are behaviors that are disliked...true. They are NOT the traditional social role of a man...true. However if a man doesn't act like a woman and doesn't have sex at all...if he's known to be a homosexual he will still be disliked under homophobia. Why? Because the focus is on the man's orientation/preference. So he is a victim of homophobia but not not necessarily sexism because his behavior is irrelevant once his sexual preference is known.
Troy Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 On 6/7/2025 at 2:52 PM, Pioneer1 said: What question do you have that is so volatile...lol...that the answer would "violate" my reasoning? There were two. You could have easily find them as I asked multiple times. Here is the most recently asked question: On 6/2/2025 at 12:56 PM, Troy said: On 6/1/2025 at 12:10 PM, frankster said: The science has already shown that race as a result of genetics do not exist.... Race as a result of a social construct does exist..... In the study you provided they are accepting using and dealing with race as a social construct... The study you link provided proof that the disparities in health outcome are a result of Access to treatment intervention tools and insurance etc.....not biology but racism Period. End of story. 'Nuff said. @Pioneer1 what specifically in the quoted statement you disagree with?
Pioneer1 Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 Troy @Pioneer1 what specifically in the quoted statement you disagree with? Who said I disagreed with ANY of those statements?
Troy Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 My God! If I were not already bald I'd be pulling my hair out now. It was a question? Which one if any of these statements do you disagree with; The science has already shown that race as a result of genetics do not exist.... Race as a result of a social construct does exist..... In the study you provided they are accepting using and dealing with race as a social construct... The study you link provided proof that the disparities in health outcome are a result of Access to treatment intervention tools and insurance etc.....not biology but racism
Pioneer1 Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 Troy Again, who said I disagreed with ANY of the above statements you're quoting from him? You're cherry picking certain statements that YOU agree with and asking me do I agree with or disagree with them; but those statements aren't the point of contention between me and frankster. But if you're trying to start some shit....let me throw you a bone. The only one of those statements that MAY be considered a point I'd disagree on is the first one about race as a result of genetics not existing. Race is a category that can be based on many different things, physical traits...which are genetic...are one of those things race CAN be based on. This has already been established. But the flip side is you can base it on things OTHER than genetics, at which genetics would play no role.
Troy Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 OK since you reject the fact: The science has already shown that race as a result of genetics do not exist.... We can't have a normal conversation on the subject, as on this subject, you are estranged from reality.
Pioneer1 Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 Troy OK since you reject the fact: The science has already shown that race as a result of genetics do not exist.... Who said I rejected this? The fact is.... While some "science" may show that there is no genetic basis for race; other references like the dictionary DO. Check out this definition of Race: Quote 3 biology : a group within a species that is distinguishable (as morphologically, genetically, or behaviorally) from others of the same species https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › race An official definition of race from an accepted source clearly states there is a biological and genetic bases for racial categorization.
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