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Actually Troy.....


Pioneer1

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..but you need to do experience to get to the point where you can sequence gene, tear atoms apart, and to observe the cosmos.

 

And don't be so confident about what you see.  The you remember the Blue/Gold dress image even everyday optical illusions should cause to question everything you see.  Of course we all know how unreliable eyewitness testimony is.

 

We, all people, MUST rely on the knowledge of others.  This is the very thing that has allowed humanity to advance.

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On 2/7/2018 at 10:51 PM, Pioneer1 said:

When information is presented to me I classify it as:

1. Information I KNOW to be true based on experience or observation.
2. Information I don't actually know but just BELIEVE based on the evidence.
3. Information that I don't know nor have enough information to have an opinion on
4. Information that I don't actually know and DON'T BELIEVE based on the evidence.
5. Information that I KNOW NOT to be true based on experience or observation

 

Brilliant. That is how I classify information as well.

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It's all about objectivity and subjectivity.  Influenced by their egos, subjective people latch onto to what resonates with them  through personal experiences, becoming so enamoured of anecdotal evidence that they reject any other view, subsequently descending into a cognitive dissonance mind set.  Objective people tend to be curious and flexible and consider all views, gravitating toward those which extensive studies and experiments have proven to be reliable and authentic.    

 

Most people are a combination of the 2. Nobody is perfect or infallible.  I try to keep an open mind and appreciate individuals who do the same. Race is such a multi-faceted issue made even more volatile by the resentment and even paranoia of laymen attacking the messenger while denying the message that scientists are  conveying and verifying.   

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Troy

 

 

We, all people, MUST rely on the knowledge of others. This is the very thing that has allowed humanity to advance


I didn't say we didn't have to rely on the knowledge of others.
My point is BLACK PEOPLE need to make up a substantial number of those "others"; instead of constantly soley relying on the information that White people relay to us.

If you look at much of the technology of the world, it's not "humanity" advancing, it's White people advancing and Black folks just going along for the ride....lol.

How many Black people are actually down in South America studying the ecology of the Amazon, or building rockets to go to Mars, or spicing genes and making clones???

We let White people do it......then run to the university or go to youtube and let THEM tell US what they found.

This is not only lazy, but silly.

We need DIRECT KNOWLEDGE that we gain from our own expriments and reasoning that we can use to benefit ourselves instead of expecting that some balding White man with a grey pony tail and glasses will give us all the information we need.

 

 

 

 

Zaji

I like you too!
I believe you mentioned something about being from Jamaica.
I have yet to meet a Carrribean woman I DIDN'T like...lol.



Cynique

 

Objective people tend to be curious and flexible and consider all views, gravitating toward those which extensive studies and experiments have proven to be reliable and authentic.


Sounds to me like THESE type of people would rather believe what other people tell them rather than what they've seen with their own two eyes....lol.

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@Pioneer1 come on man there are Black people involved in all aspect of science.  Man, Black people invented science! 

 

Are you actually trying to suggest that science is biased because Black people, in your opinion, do not dominate the fields?!  You don't trust genetics or climate change because Black people are not dominating the fields?! 

 

You know Neil deGrasse Tyson believes in climate change and the fact that there is only one race.  You know the continent of Africa is full of scientists who believe this too.

 

I'm used to your use of racial stereotypes, but sometimes the things you say are really quite astonishing.

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I know that Black people invented science and I know there are Black scientists.

Knowledge is knowledge.

Truth is truth.

It doesn't have a color or race to it.......

BUT THOSE PRESENTING THAT KNOWELDGE AND TRUTH TO US DO HAVE A RACE/COLOR TO THEM!

And if those who are presenting that knowledge are racist with evil ulterior motives then they will skew that knowledge, hide it, and corrupt it.
And every other scientist THAT FOLLOW in their footsteps through that same scientific methods they practice will be just as confused and corrupted as they are....either wittingly or unwittingly.

Which is the problem I have with many of these so-called Black scientists who get their training from Western academic institutions.

They are just getting hand-me-down knowledge from smarter even more educated White folks.
But much of that knowledge has been skewed and corrupted.


I consider George Washington Carver a Black scientist who practiced Black or neutral science.

He had his own laboratory where he went directly into nature HIMSELF and actually talked to the plants and studied them up close with his own hands and arrived at his OWN conclusions.
And invented over 300 product just from the peanut alone.

When Black people practice science in OUR OWN way using OUR OWN methods un-encumbered by the restrictions of the typical Western scientific format....we excell at phenomenal levels.

It's the same way.....not just with science....but with everything else.
When Black folks freed themselves from the restrictions of Western music and made our own....we produced JAZZ, MOTOWN, RAP.

We had the entire world bouncing and rocking to what we produced.....because we did it OUR WAY, not their way.

If we'd only practice science OUR WAY...we could cure the planet and everyone on it.



 

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2 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

We have the entire world bouncing and rocking to our beat.....because we did it OUR WAY.

 

I've noticed this in general as well. When we step outside of the status quo in every area of knowledge, either discarding some ideas or expounding on some ideas, we invent/create great things.

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57 minutes ago, zaji said:

 

I've noticed this in general as well. When we step outside of the status quo in every area of knowledge, either discarding some ideas or expounding on some ideas, we invent/create great things.


I noticed this even as a teenager working for and with White people on jobs.

White people would do everything the hard way and insist on everyone else following their lead.
Even if I found an easier and better way to mop a floor or sort papers.....they'd often times either refuse to do it that way and TRY to force me not to either OR they'd take the easy way and MAKE it hard by increasing the production.....lol.

In other words.............

If a worker had to clearn atleast one floor of an office building every night and this would take them the entire night only to go home tired-
If you found a way to get the entire project done in half the time and go home feeling fine, those bastards would try to FORCE you to either stop doing it that way OR force you to do TWO FLOORS in one night!!

As much as I critize the Asians, one thing I notice about them is when there are NO White people around and they're running their own businesses their way....it runs much smoother and far more effiencent.

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Troy
 

I can't entertain stereotypes -- indeed they are racist.


If RACE doesn't exist....how can RACISM and RACIST stereotypes exist?

It would be like me calling the Easter Bunny a buck-tooth fool and you getting upset and saying I shouldn't insult the Easter Bunny that way.

If there is no White race or Black race then how can any talk of them be considered racist?


 

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Troy

 

of course the "claims" of racists are fictitious; that does not mean racism does not exist. Are you deliberately being obtuse?
 

I didn't say the claims of "racists" are ficticious; I said that IF the concept of race is fiction.....as you say....then that means that the concept of RACISM and all the CLAIMS OF RACISM would also be ficticious.

In other words.......

If race doesn't exist....then that would mean that the claims that so-called Black people make about being racially discriminated against because of their race are a bunch of nonsense.

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2 hours ago, Troy said:

Racism is real.  The claims being made by so called Black people are perfectly valid.  However, the foundation for the claims made by racist, like white superiority, are baseless. 

@Troy

 

Yes. I agree. It is irrelevant whether race is real or not real in this context. Racism is real because it is a behavior based on a belief. If a psycho BELIEVES that I am a demon and that all demons sent by Satan should be killed, he/she will ACT based on this erroneous belief.  Am I a demon? Maybe. Maybe not. But it won't matter to the psycho who has power over me and thinks I'm a demon, and, who might even be hallucinating and physically seeing me as a demon. He will try to kill me based on what HE sees, NOT what I see and believe I know to be true about myself.  

 

To me, the truth matters, but it doesn't matter to me when it comes to someone harming me. Don't touch me...I don't care if something is true or false. Believe whatever you want, just leave me alone and don't oppress me because of your belief if I'm not bothering you physically. I don't have the energy for people's psychosis. That's my thing.

 

 

 

 

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Troy

{deep sigh} @Pioneer1, Racism is real. The claims being made by so called Black people are perfectly valid. However, the foundation for the claims made by racist, like white superiority, are baseless.



Lol........
See, this is what Del is talking about when he refers to you and Cynique having "emotional" reactions to what I say instead of meeting me on a strictly logical level.

Instead of sighing and groaning and talking about how baseless and silly the argument is, why not just DISPROVE it?

The fact is, race is a CONCEPT.....an idea
And it's very hard and next to impossible to invalidate a CONCEPT.





 


Zaji

Yes. I agree. It is irrelevant whether race is real or not real in this context. Racism is real because it is a behavior based on a belief. If a psycho BELIEVES that I am a demon and that all demons sent by Satan should be killed, he/she will ACT based on this erroneous belief. Am I a demon? Maybe. Maybe not. But it won't matter to the psycho who has power over me and thinks I'm a demon, and, who might even be hallucinating and physically seeing me as a demon. He will try to kill me based on what HE sees, NOT what I see and believe I know to be true about myself.


Absolutely, and to add on to what you said......

One of the problems with trying to deny the existence of race is the fact that racists are RUNNING much of the society we live in!

Whether TROY believe in the concept of race or not:
The DOCTOR he goes to see might.
The POLICE OFFICER who stops him on the street might.
The PRESIDENT who lead the nation he's living in might.
The STAFF of his place of employement may have individuals who DO see race.

And if THESE people not only believe in the concept of race but also see THEIR race as superior and TROY'S as inferior then this will pose very real problems for him.

So it would be wise to understand and accept the concept of race whether one thinks it's valid or not.

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Yes, when the klansman is placing the noose around your neck the validity of the concept of race matters not, so I too agree with @zaji last statement

 

@Pioneer1, the jury is still out your you application of logic in this case, as out resident logic expert @Delano, has chosen not to express his opinion in this case.

 

It is fascinating to see how malleable your thought process is. Rather that just concede that you now agree with what I've been saying all along you have the balls to write;  "The fact is, race is a CONCEPT.....an idea"  and make it seem like you are making a revelation?!

 

At any rate, given that statement, one you've seemly integrated, unconsciously, that idea that race is just an idea without basis in genetics.

 

 

 

 

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On 2/17/2018 at 5:21 PM, Troy said:

what does what you just wrote mean?  I mean, Pioneer's last statement is not one that anyone has disagreed with.  What new information are you trying to convey?

Pioneer disagreed with it until he inadvertently ended up agreeing with your original claim that race is a concept - a construct, not a fact.  The marathon debate came full circle, and you can claim victory!  

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Troy

It is fascinating to see how malleable your thought process is. Rather that just concede that you now agree with what I've been saying all along you have the balls to write; "The fact is, race is a CONCEPT.....an idea" and make it seem like you are making a revelation?!


Man what are you talking about?
Since day one I have AGREED with you that race was a human construct!

Infact, if you look at the FIRST PAGE OF THIS VERY THREAD I all abut said this very thing when I told you:


"Just because it's a human construct, doesn't mean it doesn't exist."

https://aalbc.com/tc/topic/4850-actually-troy/?page=1

 
I've NEVER denied that the concept of race was a human construct.
So are the concepts of "sex" and "gender".


I said that race was a way of CATEGORIZING PEOPLE and all categories are human constructs.
 


 

At any rate, given that statement, one you've seemly integrated, unconsciously, that idea that race is just an idea without basis in genetics.


Again, I've NEVER denied that race was a human construct.

What I said WAS NOT a "human construct" were the PHENOTYPICAL FEATURES (skin color, eye color, hair color and texture, nose/lip shape) that the racial categories are based upon.
Those are physical genetically based features.

Just like SEX is a human construct, but the PENIS and VAGINA that the construct of sex is based upon is NOT.

I also told you that just because something is a human construct, doesn't mean it has no validity.

Literacy is a human construct.....but it's valid and useful.
Counting is a human construct....but it's valid and useful.
Medicine and health care are human constructs.....but they are valid and useful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cynique

This is yet another example of how you CHANGE your position just to oppose me, lol.
We know that you AGREE with my idea that various races exist....yet you pretend that you're agreeing with Troy.

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7 minutes ago, Cynique said:

i do not agree with your idea that various races exist. After Troy brought me up to date on the subject, i accepted the single race findings, instead of the artificial construct one.   


I'm not sure at what point you changed your mind....maybe you can show us the thread or give us a link where you actually did this before me pointing our your inconsistency on this issue.
Anyway.....

While it's true that race is a MAN MADE construct, it's not an ARTIFICIAL one.

Artificial constructs ARE man-made, but that doesn't mean that all man-made constructs are artificial.

Artificial things are a REPLICA or COPY of the original.

The concept of race.....to my knowledge....is an original idea/concept that was used to classify human beings.
It's not a copy of another.

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6 minutes ago, Cynique said:

i have no intentions of  proving something to you.  i am not obligated to comply with your demands.  Believe what you want to believe. Makes me no difference. 

 


I hope you don't talk like that to your 72 year old stud muffin you say is always asking you to come over so he can "rock your world".....lol.

 

Image result for old black man

 

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Captain obvious (@Pioneer1) of course phenotypic differences are genetically based no one disputed that, why are you trying to make it a point of contention?

 

Bottom line, you understand race is an artificial construct with no basis in genetics and that there is only one human race  What else is there to discuss?

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11 hours ago, Troy said:

Captain obvious (@Pioneer1) of course phenotypic differences are genetically based no one disputed that, why are you trying to make it a point of contention?

 

Bottom line, you understand race is an artificial construct with no basis in genetics and that there is only one human race  What else is there to discuss?

 

 

So basically you've decided to:

-IGNORE everything I said in my previous post......

-PUT WORDS into my mouth and attribute to me a position that I've never taken.....

-then proceed to argue against that position and claim victory?

OK.....

Lol....shame, shame, shame.

 

 

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I have no problem accepting there being only one race inasmuch as all humans walk upright on 2 legs, have the opposing thumbs and forefingers that enabled them to pick up objects to use as tools, and how any of its females can be impregnated by any of its males all of whom laugh and cry. All other differences are superficial and expedient, as far as i'm concerned.   

 

This debate  exposed the difference between being a doubter and being a die-hard.  A doubter is not wedded to one point of view. Troy was the winner when it came to objectivity.  And of course, this opinion could be deemed by some as a subjective one, knowing my disregard for pioneer.   So be it.

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Cynique

I have no problem accepting there being only one race inasmuch as all humans walk upright on 2 legs, have the opposing thumbs and forefingers that enabled them to pick up objects to use as tools,


I suppose you have no problem accepting there being only ONE SEX or ONE GENDER also since most humans share the same physical characteristics you mentioned above.
 

 

 

And of course, this opinion could be deemed by some as a subjective one, knowing my disregard for pioneer.


......especially after I EXPOSED that disregard, lol.

I felt it only fair that everyone who reads your prejudicial statments will know the REAL reasons behind them.

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@Pioneer1My! How energized you've become! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!  And, did i mention that i accept the scientific determination that there is only one race????  Time for you to pull up a picture of my boy-toy, a pathetic gesture that says more about you than him.   (Too bad that instead of using an avatar, you hide behind the picture of a prominent man in the desperate hope that some of his sheen will rub off on you. No way. ) LMAO.

 

 

😛

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Cynique

How energized you've become! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


It's funny how you end up saying the SAME THING three nights in a row....lol.

1. Last night....you said it to ME.

2. The night before....you said it to your 72 year old boy-FRIEND after he took is "magic pills".

3. And the night before THAT.....you said it to your original boy-TOY after replacing the batteries in it, lol.

 

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