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Cynique

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My guy Colin Kaepernick  has just secured a multi million dollar shoe deal as Nike makes him the face of 'Just Do It' 30th anniversary campaign. 

 
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Good for Colin.  It does not sound like it will make up for the loss revenue from his football contract but it is far more than any of us will make.

 

Leave up to Nike to slickly capitalize on the "moment."  Imagine what it would be like if NIKE were around in the 60's and co-opted the images of the civil rights leadership during the civil right movement just to sell grotesquely over priced footwear targeting people who can ill afford the buy the stuff...

 

"Sacrificing everything" -- gimme a freaking break!  We don't even know what sacrifice means today; Brother and Sisters actually risked their lives fighting injustice little more than a generation ago. We won't even get off social media for 5 minutes.

 

 

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LOL! @Troy NIkes are too expensive for me, but before I even knew that they supported Colin, I just recently broke down and scratched my pennies to buy a pair that I need because of my problematic feet. They happened to make a pair that I can use without causing me more damage due to a job injury. 

 

And, I don't think this will make up for Colin's financial loss either. From what I understand, he was really good at his sport, so I know he made a sacrifice. 

 

I hope his parents will be proud of him though, I believe it is tough on them too.

 

There are already some angry people though, mad at Nike. 

 

 

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Well @Chevdove I was never a fan of NIke, or any of the companies that exploit workers and actively market these over prices products.  I was a kid when sneakers became thing.  I think NIke was the first brand to breath the $100 barrier -- for product that cost just a few dollars to manufacture.

 

Kids were getting robbed and killed over sneakers -- perhaps they still are.  I never had the money or desire to layout that much  for some sneakers but kids literally had the shoes stolen right off their feet because the shoes because so desirable --- purely because of marketing!  NIke has blood on their hands -- So F-ck Nike.

 

Have you considered custom orthotics? You can then use them with more than one pair of and they would be better suited to you feet. 😉 

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19 hours ago, Troy said:

"Sacrificing everything" -- gimme a freaking break!  We don't even know what sacrifice means today; Brother and Sisters actually risked their lives fighting injustice little more than a generation ago. We won't even get off social media for 5 minutes.

Sacrifice is relative.  Anything you give up what robs you of what has meaning in your life is a sacrifice.  Kaepernick is being elevated, not by his own design but by others seeking to villanize, idolize or capitalize off him.  i think his intentions are good , which is why i continue to give him credit.  He has made  yet another impact thanks to NIKE.  He is using them as much as they are using him.

 

As for NIKE, just as many affluent people buy them as those who can't afford them; even more. And they come in all price ranges. Once again, you and i clash over ordinary people seeking things that make them happy instead of being satisfied with drudgery, just to make a point.  i don't think anybody is being killed for their shoes anymore.  Nowadays most kids from all walks of life are more focused on video games and iPhones and social media.   

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Kaepernick is a reflection of our time.  I truly have nothing against the man.  I believe his heart is pure and his intentions just.

 

However he is rendered ineffective in 2018.  The original intent of his actions have been buried and everyone has co-opted his message.  45 has used it to fire up his racist and xenophobic base by perverting Colin's message on Twitter. Nike is now exploiting the optics to increase shareholder wealth  

 

All the while nothing in the Black community has changed -- other than for the worse.

 

@Cynique have you ever lived in a community where people had the shoes stolen off their feet?  Does this seems like alien behavior to you? I ask because of your statement. Which struck me: 

 

1 hour ago, Cynique said:

i don't think anybody is being killed for their shoes anymore. 

 

This video is in NYC in May of this year.  There are MANY videos like this one.  The victim in this video sneakers were apparently worth $2,000, a pair of Air Jordans.  Give today's technology the shoes probably cost less to make than the $100 pair of shores a generation ago. These are just the incidences video tapes most of these crimes go unreported.  WHile this young man was not murdered for his sneakers, I assure you people are mirdered each year over a pair of Nikes. 

 

I wonder if more people are killed over a pair of Nikes than are unjustifiably killed by Police each year.

 

Again, the value and price of these shoes have NOTHING to do with their cost.  The "value" of these sneakers has been manufactured, out of thin air by Nike.  The resulting crimes are the result. Today Nike is using Colin to improve the effectiveness of their marketing machine.   We are a long way from what ever the heck Colin was kneel about.

 

200px-Logo_NIKE.svg.png Just Think.

 

 

 

 

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@Troy .  Actually anybody of any age who has anything of value on them or is a driving late model car is a target for being robbed. or hi-jacked.  iPhones are a hot item in Chicago, carjackings rampant, ATM customers also  at high risk. Not to mention - banks!   Why single out gym shoes?

 

2 hours ago, Troy said:

Again, the value and price of these shoes have NOTHING to do with their cost.  The "value" of these sneakers has been manufactured, out of thin air by Nike.  The resulting crimes are the result. Today Nike is using Colin to improve the effectiveness of their marketing machine.   We are a long way from what ever the heck Colin was kneel about.

 

It is 2018 and what corporate America does is not unexpected..  i still  get a charge out of the embarrassment and shame and outrage this demonstration is inflicting on the NFL, the MAGA crowd and super patriotic hypocrites.   

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2 hours ago, Troy said:

Have you considered custom orthotics? You can then use them with more than one pair of and they would be better suited to you feet

 

@Troy yes, I've spent hundreds of dollars on specially made orthotics and they didn't work, more over, they actually made my feet much worse. It took me years of trial and error to finally stumble across these particular pair of NIKE Running shoes and the last pair wore out about 2 years ago, but I just didn't have the money to replace them but last week, after complaining relentlessly to my family for help, I was finally able to buy them. I had to call all over to find them as they are hard to find in stock, believe it or not. They don't seem to ever be on sale. 

 

I tell my family that what I really need to do is to get my membership back at a community pool or something because that would really help more. But, my health is not good, so I feel pressed to do something now.

 

It is so sad about how just because of NAME BRANDS that companies like NIKE and more, have blood on their hands. I have to say, I agree with you on how you feel though. But, I angry too, about being ripped off in the medical field as well. I wish I could find a better way. 

 

But as for Colin Kapernick, I know he going to be exploited, however, what he did, IMO was so amazing. He's one in a million, and then some. He is so young too. 

In the back of my mind, I am hoping that NIKE or someone behind this company chose to do this for the right reasons. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Cynique said:

iPhones are a hot item in Chicago, carjackings rampant,

 

@Cynique absolutely! ... car rims.... keep going.... LOL

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@Delano your question is nonsensical. 

 

@Cynique I singled ou gym shoes because you wrote:

 

8 hours ago, Cynique said:

  i don't think anybody is being killed for their shoes anymore.

 

I found that to be surprising statement.

 

@Chevdove if off the shelf nikes are better for your feet than custom made orthotics maybe you need a new podiatrist  😉

 

 

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17 hours ago, Cynique said:

Sacrifice is relative.  Anything you give up that robs you of what has meaning in your life is a sacrifice. 

 

@Cynique   🎤 -drop

 

This is a powerful statement! The truth of it hit me unexpectedly -I got tears.   Damn!!! This right here is the truth of all of us ....and the truth is in its simplicity.  

 

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@Delano this whole conversation is about the impact of Colin's kneeling  -- of course it had an impact?!  That is a silly question coming from out of left field.  I was talking "some months ago" ago, in a completely different conversation, about his impact on police killings of unarmed Black people.  Has Colin's action lead to a reduction in the incidences or new legislation to punish perpetrators?  As a matter of fact, why don't YOU tell us what as changed as a result.  But you won't because you have developed an irritating habit of not answering direct questions.

 

@Mel Hopkins I just watched this video. Nike has brilliantly taken over Colin's message.  I guess it is now about becoming a great athlete despite adversity.  I'm sure Nike will sell a lot of over priced product as a result. Never forget -- that is their goal.

 

NIke is selling hype and fantasy no one will become a Serena or Lebron.  Commercials like this is one of the reasons so many Black boys invest way too much time trying to become a professional athletes rather than learning skills (like reading and writing) that would be more marketable and rewarding in the long run.

 

Obviously I'm not moved by Nike's marketing hype. I appreciate I'm in the minority, but that is fine with me.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Troy said:

I guess it is now about becoming a great athlete despite adversity. 

 

@Troy Nike sells sports paraphernalia; so of course they're going to focus on... wait for it, Wait for it; SPORTS. 

Still, I suggest you listen and look again. 

 

The message is STOP sitting on the sidelines despite your handicap. 

 

By the way Serena or Lebron weren't the greatest either.    So unless you're the almighty, all-seeing predictor of what comes next - You don't have a clue who will be the next greatest ... anything. 

 

And that's Kaep's message.    Kaep is not telling people to buy NIKE products - The NIKE commercial is just his platform.   Kaep is telling folks to IGNORE what people like you say and "Believe in something even if it means sacrificing everything." 

 

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 NIKE is not a philanthropic organization.  @Troy As a business man, yourself, why are you so contemptuous of corporations using marketing strategies in order to push their products and realize a profit for them and their stock holders? If you had your way, companies would just post a picture of their product with a caption:  "This is what we are trying to sell. We'd appreciate it if you would please buy it."  Nobody forces anybody to buy something that catches their fancy.  Consumerism is based on a "buying what you want rather than what you need" mind-set.  People tend to compartmentalize their lives and acquiring cherished possessions is a niche they set aside to spoil themselves.    

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1 hour ago, Cynique said:

why are you so contemptuous of corporations using marketing strategies in order to push their products

 

Nike I understand.  How people react to Nike, as if they have altruistic motives, is what confounds me. Nike does not care about you or me, outside of separating you from you money. I wouldn't even care if Nike tactics were not so destructive. 

 

It is why also why I hold companies like Facebook in contempt.   Even if the users of Facebook do not care or know that they are being manipulated Facebook knows and they proceed because they are getting rich doing it -- despite all the damage they cause.

 

1 hour ago, Cynique said:

Nobody forces anybody to buy something that catches their fancy. 

 

I would not be so sure about this.  The techniques used to get people make purchases is far more sophisticated that ya'll are willing to comprehend, accept, or acknowledge.

 

3 hours ago, Mel Hopkins said:

By the way Serena or Lebron weren't the greatest either.    So unless you're the almighty, all-seeing predictor of what comes next - You don't have a clue who will be the next greatest ... anything. 

 

What?!  I did not make this claim.  But still how, in the same sentence can you say that, "Serena or Lebron weren't the greatest either."  This purely subjective issue that knowledgeable people can reasonably disagree this.  

 

2 hours ago, Delano said:

Troy you may have to develop a new style of arguing that has some basis in listening and or comprehension. 

 

...and you my friend need to begin answering direct questions and stop making oblique and incomprehensible interjections before you begin judging anyone's arguing style.

 

Again, you'll can worship at the alter of Nike if you choose I still say to Hell with them.

 

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

I would not be so sure about this.  The techniques used to get people make purchases is far more sophisticated that ya'll are willing to comprehend, accept, or acknowledge.

 

What is the trade-off?  it's not like you're spending your money and not getting something in return. Are you ever a victim of the ploys you warn others about?  Or do you just do without, satisfied with generic products?  😛

 BTW, FaceBook is on fire with people saying what you're saying about the NIKE Kaepernick deal.  So users are not that naive.    A lot of blacks say whatever the case, they are still  going to patronize NIKE in support of Kaepernick. And, of course, there are millions from the MAGA crowd who will boycott this company, and there are pictures all over the internet of these disgruntled fans burning their NIKE shoes.  I won't be buying any NIKEs and i am a supporter of this campaign.  

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

How people react to Nike, as if they have altruistic motives, is what confounds me. N

People need meaning in their life and they want to be part of something bigger than themselves. 

Apple isnt selling computers they are selling membership into a club comprised of artistic altruistic thinkers. Apple consumers worship Steve Jobs like a rock star. And just likea a rock concert. They camp out to consume the latest offerings. The product is sold but it is the perception of image and community that is consumed. 

This applies to following products :

Religion; soda; music ; restaurants, universities ; clothing ; sexual identity ; sports ; weight lifting; race et cetera. 

Identity is a chimera it means what we believe it means. (it is like race a subjective construct) So purchasing products helps to create and sustain identity. 

 

 

When was the last time you drank OE 800? 

 

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However he is rendered ineffective in 2018. The original intent of his actions have been buried and everyone has co-opted his message. 45 has used it to fire up his racist and xenophobic base by perverting Colin's message on Twitter. Nike is now exploiting the optics to increase shareholder wealth

All the while nothing in the Black community has changed -- other than for the worse.


My sentiments as well.

I also agree with Cynique that Colin is being elevated by others seeking to capitalize off of him by either villifying him or using his image to make money.

I think some are trying to make a "Black Jesus" sacrificial figure out of him which may infact do even MORE damage because it will encourage our many of young men to lay down and just play VICTIM hoping someone will feel sorry for you and give you a break....instead of standing up and actually FIGHTING against injustice or establishing your own industry.

 


Instead of organizing and buying your own team or better yet your own league......

Image result for uncle remus
"Don't choo pay dem folks no neva-mind!
Just keep own doin' whachoo doin' boy and somewheah....somehaah.....some GOOD white folk  go feel sorry fo' ya and come 'long and SAVE ya!"

 

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I image most of you all -- especially @Cynique will be pleased to know, your corporate savior, Nike's sales have increased 30%.  Nike is brilliant, but we are so very easily manipulated 😞

 

It is interesting how many media outlets (including Time Magazine) are spinning the information from the source (linked below), by stating definitively that the Kaepernick campaign was the cause for the difference where the article itself makes no such claim.  This is not journalism. Time Magazine is feeding to the social media driven click-baity-controversy-driven-social-media-driven news apparatus.

 

Nike sales grew 31% from Sunday through Tuesday over the Labor Day holiday this year compared with the previous year, according to Edison Trends.

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On 9/11/2018 at 4:19 PM, Troy said:

I image most of you all -- especially @Cynique will be pleased to know, your corporate savior, Nike's sales have increased 30%.  Nike is brilliant, but we are so very easily manipulated 😞

 

It is interesting how many media outlets (including Time Magazine) are spinning the information from the source (linked below), by stating definitively that the Kaepernick campaign was the cause for the difference where the article itself makes no such claim.  This is not journalism. Time Magazine is feeding to the social media driven click-baity-controversy-driven-social-media-driven news apparatus.

 

 

@Troy for somebody who crows about all the times he's been stopped by the "po-po" when driving while black, you ought be more invested in the whole campaign to put white cops in check, along with the NFL who exploits black players. ( Instead of posting videos of professional thieves accosting a suburban white kid in an effort to tell somebody from around Chicago that killing people for sneakers is still widespread, you might want to consider the circumstances for my statement to the contrary.  As somebody who reads the head count of Chicago murder victims,  - lists that for at least the past 10  years are printed everyday in the local newspapers, i can tell you i can't remember the last time any of the thousands of these homocides  in this big city have been been missing his shoes, and his cause of death listed as sneaker theft.) 

 

You need to direct your wrath toward billionaire, Michael Jordan, instead of  the object of your seething belittlement, Colin Kaepernick, - MJ who benefits from the blood and sweat of those overseas peons who work for slave wages to produce his exorbitantly priced gym shoes,  a charge being leveled against NIKE all over FaceBook from those who stay woke, contrary to your belief that everybody but you is naive and gullible.     

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15 hours ago, Cynique said:

seething belittlement, Colin Kaepernick

 

Please. Hyperbole may be compelling, but when used to attribute sentiments I do not homd and have not expressed it is just wrong.

 

My gripe is with Nike and the people who elevate them as is Nike gives a Fu*k about Black people.

 

Why hold Nike at a different standard than Michael Jordan?

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5 hours ago, Troy said:

Please. Hyperbole may be compelling, but when used to attribute sentiments I do not homd and have not expressed it is just wrong.

I was inspired by your snide remark below. ( I have never touted  NIKE and, in fact, said i wouldn't be buying any gym shoes. Because i don't need a pair and they are too expensive)

 

On 9/11/2018 at 4:19 PM, Troy said:

I image most of you all -- especially @Cynique will be pleased to know, your corporate savior, Nike's sales have increased 30%.  Nike is brilliant, but we are so very easily manipulated 😞

 

 

5 hours ago, Troy said:

Why hold Nike at a different standard than Michael Jordan?

Who's doing this?  I didn't

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@Troy I see your point in that Nike is exploiting 'a cause' through the efforts of Colin. I support Colin, apart from Nike though. I support Colin because of his stance against the violence towards AfroAmericans. And, what about what I read previously in this thread, I think, about the police men too, who are in support of upholding the good standards of the police departments? I realize there are a lot of people 'piggy backing' on what Colin and others have done though.

 

Earlier, you responded to me about getting a better Podiatrist, instead of buying a pair of store bought shoes to manage my feet injury. Well, that is also a challenge that includes the Medical Insurance. 

 

I actually have been dealing with this issue since about 2003, again as I said, due to a job injury. At that time, I had better medical insurance, and went to at least 4 different specialist such as Orthooedics and podiatrist and they took my money and I received no relief. No medical relief at all. I can't even get a permanent handicap sticker. Yet, I see mainly White women getting out of their cars from handicap parking lots and walking as if they have no problem at all.

 

They fired me from that job back in 2006, even though I had the top rate Orthopedic testify and say that I was injured on the job. So now, I have to deal with a 'affordable healthcare provdier and it's a night mare. I'm still trying to get relief from going to a doctor's appointment and who charged me $300.00 for an erroneously bloodwork test, that I dedn't need and that was not covered by my insurance. MOre importantly, I had the test done previously, but the doctor claimed that if I didn't go get routine bloodwork at some clinic, that he couldn't give me a simple prescription.  So then, even though these NIKE shoes may not be the real answer, that is the best I can do for now. 

 

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What?! @Cynique you led this conversation with the Nike ad, then went on to THANK Nike for helping Colin. 

 

Cynique you are absolutely hold Michael Jordan to a different standard that Colin.  Indeed using your argument I can say that Colin is helping to exploit works by helping Nike. 

  • Workers feared for their lives in one incident when 28 people collapsed rushing to escape a fire at a factory supplying Nike. -Cambodia 2017
  • Nike factory worker shares story of abusive working conditions -- Thailand, 2016
  • Nike factory worker shares story of abusive working conditions - Vietnam, 2018
  • Workers at the plant – owned by the world's largest maker of sneakers, Yue Yuen – earn as little as $1.67 an hour making shoes that can sell for up to 100 times as much in the United States. -- China 2014

The gratitude afforded Nike is the notion that I reject, simply because Nike only cares for Colin in so far as he can generate revenue for them -- no different that the master that feeds and provides shelter for his slave.  

 

@Chevdove I believe one can support Colin AND reject Nike.  I can also believe one can support Colin AND be critical of his tactics.  Colin is not sancrocant or above critic -- no one man is.  Indeed this critique can help him be more effective... coming from the right people. 

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10 minutes ago, Troy said:

I believe one can support Colin AND reject Nike.  I can also believe one can support Colin AND be critical of his tactics.  Colin is not sancrocant or above critic -- no one man is.  Indeed this critique can help him be more effective... coming from the right people. 

@Troy You know, I can see another view point now, based on what you are posting. I may not be able to express it completely now though, but I am now thinking about this aspect; Colin reacts to wrongdoings against Black people and then he loses his career, then at a low point, in steps................ NIKE................. NOw, the situation shifts. It  shifts to sports and being the best you can be, and the original issue is not the forefront of NIKE, and Colin is now supporting another cause, and he is getting paid. And this Nike scheme, can actually be viewed as sort of like MOcKING all of us, as a whole, now, I ask myself, Does the Nike people care about Blacks getting killed by the George Zimmermanns, or cops, or for their shoes..... NOPE. 

Edited by Chevdove
SPELLING

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@Chevdove, Unfortunately Colins message was immediately co-opted, because one of disrespecting the flag.  When Colin lost his job our reaction -- the reaction of this fellow player -- should have been to shut the NFL down.  They have the power to do it.  But they won't exercise that power because everyone is more concerned about getting paid. 

 

Meanwhile, Colin gets paid, Nike sells more sneakers, The NFL grows richer, and unarmed negroes continued to be gunned down in the street by those sworn to protect.

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1 hour ago, Troy said:

What?! @Cynique you led this conversation with the Nike ad, then went on to THANK Nike for helping Colin. 

this is not true.  Below is all i said when i posted the ad. You are putting your spin on it .

 

On 9/4/2018 at 12:11 PM, Cynique said:

My guy Colin Kaepernick  has just secured a multi million dollar shoe deal as Nike makes him the face of 'Just Do It' 30th anniversary campaign. 

 

i later differed with your opinion that Kaepernick had not sacrified anything because i thought giving up his football career was a sacrifice.  Also I later said that NIKE and Jordan were making millions off of slave labor when it came to the manufacture of their products.  jordan has sacrificed nothing, taken no stand the way Serena and LeBron James did,  and still remains a hero to sports fans of all races.  I made it clear i was not under any illusions about NIKE's motives, but allowed that this is a capitalistic country where corporate America is in the business of making money for themselves and their stock holders. Something that you can't   seem to wrap your brain around.  i later tried to inject a little  humor into the proceedings  by a posting a meme parody featuring Mike Tyson that was lifted from FaceBook, and you nearly lost your mind over my comment that FaceBook has a sense of humor.  Puleeze.

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OK lets put things in perspective here.  Do you believe Colin would have started any of this if he thought it would actually cost him his job?  I don't.  I say that because he is trying very hard to get it back.  Still he lost his job and it has become a sacrifice.  

 

4 hours ago, Cynique said:

...this is a capitalistic country where corporate America is in the business of making money for themselves and their stock holders. Something that you can't   seem to wrap your brain around. 

 

What?!  You know I have an MBA and worked on Wall Street right? The role of a financial manager is to maximize shareholder wealth -- I know how it works. 

 

However I don't think that we, as a society, are best served with that mentality, thought it has been incredibly successful strategy for most wealthy people including the POTUS. I believe, NIke has had a net negative impact on the world. Exploiting what Colin started does not change this.

 

I'm sure I did not lose my mind over a meme, I've already forgotten about, from Facebook. Maybe Facebook does have a sense of humor and the joke is one us.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Troy said:

OK lets put things in perspective here.  Do you believe Colin would have started any of this if he thought it would actually cost him his job?  I don't.  I say that because he is trying very hard to get it back.  Still he lost his job and it has become a sacrifice.  

 

I don't know what Colin would've done and it's all hindsight now because his taking a knee has taken on a life of its own and its life has changed his life.  So be it.   We've had this conversation before so we're just going in in circles.  

 

On 9/6/2018 at 4:01 PM, Cynique said:

NIKE is not a philanthropic organization.  @Troy As a business man, yourself, why are you so contemptuous of corporations using marketing strategies in order to push their products and realize a profit for them and their stock holders? If you had your way, companies would just post a picture of their product with a caption:  "This is what we are trying to sell. We'd appreciate it if you would please buy it."

 

9 hours ago, Troy said:

 I believe, NIke has had a net negative impact on the world. Exploiting what Colin started does not change this.

 

 

Okay.  Make a note.  Add NIKE to the list of all the things that are having a negative impact on this world.  

 

 

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@Cynique I don't know what Colin would have done either -- maybe he doesn't even know, but I don't think he thought he would have been banned from the sport.

 

Cynique, in our system unless you are using sophisticated psychometric tools to manipulate the consumer, you probably can't be competitive  Nike is doing what they have to do to remain competitive. That does not mean however that we have sit back and make believe that what they are doing has no negative consequence -- or pounce on the people who point it out.

 

So no, I'm not jumping n the bandwagon and buying any more overpriced nike gear.  Other than giving my opinion on the matter, that is about all I can do, as an invisible middle aged Black man 😉

 

 

 

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@Troy Why do you continue to explain and justify to me something that i have already signed off on?  Am i supposed to be surprised that you are not going to go out and buy a pair of NIKEs?  i said this is not some thing i plan to do, either, but your persist in reminding me that those who buy NIKEs are being manipulated.  So, - what else is new?  😖

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Again @Cynique it is not just about you.  I read what you wrote about Nike.  Besides it is not like I expected an 80-something to go out her way to buy a pair of Nikes.

 

Further I'm not even saying EVERYBODY who buys Nikes was manipulated into doing so by the commercial.  I'm saying Nike's goal is manipulation and some have indeed fallen for the okie doke.  I have no gripe with you or your boy Colin.

 

Finally, I'm saying what I am doing, and in a public forum, the statement was also meant for anyone else reading this.

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