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Pioneer1

AfroAmerican Men Need A CODE

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The AfroAmerican community is very divided but AfroAmerican males are EVEN MORE divided than the AfroAmerican community in general!
The root of this division is the lack of a clear MORAL/ETHICAL CODE that exists among us.

Simply put, most AfroAmerican men can't agree with eachother on what is RIGHT or WRONG morally or on how one should conduct themselves in society.
And because of this we either go by our own OPINIONS  or let OTHERS from outside of our demographic including Europeans, Arabs, or even AfroAmerican women whom we want to impress or sleep with influence our thinking and behavior.....and then often end up fighting with EACHOTHER over these externally created differences.


Some say a man should only have one wife.
Others say that's the White man's way...a Black man should have SEVERAL.
Yet others say a man should be able to marry a HUSBAND if he wishes.

No agreement.


Some AfroAmerican men say that what the Bishop at Aretha Franklin's funeral did with Ariana Grande was wrong.
Others say grabbing on some titties is OK.
Other's THINK it's Ok but just won't say it and will sneak and do it.
Others think it's SICK and perverted.

No agreement.


Some AfroAmerican men think it's OK to sell drugs if you can't find any other employment.
Others say it's absolutely wrong no matter what.
Others say not only is it wrong but the dealer should be shot and killed.
Others BRAG about selling it

Again...no agreement.



Obviously Caucasians, Asians, and other races of BOTH sexes differ among themselves and even AfroAmerican women have THEIR differences as well, but they seem to agree MORE among eachother than we do AND they also seem to come togther and defend eachother AGAINST outside demographics who seek to come in and assault them where as many Afroamerican men not only attack eachother but also SIDE WITH others who may have a problem with a group of us.

Despite our differences in education, social status, wealth, and personality.....the fact is NO ONE ELSE is going to see the world and understand it the way another AfroAmerican man does.

It's time for AfroAmerican men to put atleast SOME of our differences to the side and develop a CODE among ourselves.

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If you put  Black Gay and Lesbian rough necks in charge it may work. They have a double dose of discrimination actually the women have a triple dose. 

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Sounds like a good idea in theory @Pioneer1 but in practice I can't see how it will work -- especially here in America, were there is so much diversity and individuality is a prized characteristic.

 

The other problem is we look outside our community for validation. 

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Delano  and Troy

AfroAmerican men gay or straight, tall or short, fat or skinny....all need to recognize that the only other demographic we have is EACHOTHER and we need to get on code.

 

It may take some time but it will work.

We need to start sticking together more than we do and stop letting people who are NOT AfroAmerican males give us our morals and tell us what's right and wrong and decide for OURSELVES what is correct and proper.

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Del

 

Actually I mispoke in my previous post so I deleted it.

To answer your question........
If we have a solid CODE among ourselves, we don't need a leader directing us and telling us what vision to follow because we as individuals would already know what was right and what we should do individually.

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I feel the best leaders dont want to be leaders. Snd the people that wantbto lead aren't good leaders. Martin Luther King and Donald John Trump. 

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@Pioneer1 here is a simple case. Some Black people believe Black people should patronize Black businesses whenever they have can, some black people believe all Black businesses are subpar and never patronize them, while others look for the best deal regardless of the ownership.

 

What code should we adopt when it comes to creating and supporting our own businesses?  How would we enforce compliance to any of the rules defined?

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On 9/8/2018 at 9:03 PM, Pioneer1 said:

We need to start sticking together more than we do and stop letting people who are NOT AfroAmerican males give us our morals and tell us what's right and wrong and decide for OURSELVES what is correct and proper.

 

@Pioneer1 I am divided when I read this. I can absolutely understand, AfroAmerican males having a code, and obtaining morals for yourselves, but I dunno, leaving out the input of AfroAmerican woman while you make this code, could end up being probematic. 

 

I want my sons to believe that it is vital to regard AfroAmerican females of their generation as being an important part of 'being at the table' because who makes the first impact on the next generation? I tell them that AfroAmerican woman should be allowed to be educated in the higher disciplines along with men too, because they are the ones that initially are in the position to support higher learning in children, as being mothers. Anyway, that is what I did. If I didn't know how to look out for the progams offered, competitive programs, in the educational system, through being trained in college, my sons certainly would have missed being placed in the strategic classrooms. I think women views count in how Black men ought to view us, from a moral aspect too in some regards. 

 

I worked at a shipyard and so, no, I don't want to be around a group of men in certain situations though, but that doesn't mean that i should be allowed to be part of certain decision making codes of moral and etc.  

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Troy

Some Black people believe Black people should patronize Black businesses whenever they have can, some black people believe all Black businesses are subpar and never patronize them, while others look for the best deal regardless of the ownership.

What code should we adopt when it comes to creating and supporting our own businesses? How would we enforce compliance to any of the rules defined?


I haven't developed such a code myself, I'm just saying we NEED one.
Just promoting the idea.

But right off the top of my head I would say Black people should have the right to patronize any business they choose whether they're doing so for prices, quality, or just plain convenience.
The ONUS wouldn't be on the patron but on the BUSINESS.

From an early age part of the Code would be to teach Black males in both school and home at an early age to make sure that every thing you produce....at school, at work, in your own business is TOP QUALITY and make no excuses for not providing it.

It's not about punishing people, just giving them more options.

Elijah Muhammad said if you see a dirty glass that people are drinking out of you don't have to condemn the glass to get the people to stop.....just produce a CLEAN glass and put them next to eachother and most people will NATURALLY gravitate toward the cleaner glass.

You don't have to FORCE AfroAmericans to patronize their own businesses if we are making sure we offer SUPERIOR services and products to anyone else!


 

 

 

 

 

Chev


I am divided when I read this. I can absolutely understand, AfroAmerican males having a code, and obtaining morals for yourselves, but I dunno, leaving out the input of AfroAmerican woman while you make this code, could end up being probematic.


It's about balance.
We most certainly will consider and be heavily influenced by the AfroAmerican woman because men NEED women just like women NEED men, but we must put HER perspective in the PROPER perspective.
Especially when it comes to family and sexual matters.

We must know and understand that while there are exceptions, men and women tend to think differently and have a different understanding of their roles in family life and sexual relations and these differences must be acknowledged and respected.....not condemned or used to justify mistreatment.

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OK forget my example @Pioneer1.

 

What is an example of a code you think should be implemented?

 

I ask because your reaction to my example is basically stating behavior that needs no code. 

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16 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

men and women tend to think differently and have a different understanding of their roles in family life and sexual relations

 

@Pioneer1 I don't know about that part, but the rest, I do agree.

 

I am not 'what today's definition of a feminist means' but, women do think broadly about family life and sexual relations. My mother is matriarchal. 

 

My husband comes from a very dominant. male dominant, background, and we've had to 'duke it out' over the years... LOL...over certain issues.

 

Some women, IMO, will be quiet, if they are dealing with a male dominant man and if they want to bond, for reasons of protection and wealth, they will. But, afterwards, if they are shut out from being 'at the table' on decisions, they will turn you out. And that kind of gender contention is not good for our culture, IMO. Their needs to be a balance. 

 

My husband's father's definition of 'family life and sexual relations' really pissed me off, and so, we’ve had some conflicts too before there was peace between us. I eventually admired him because he was willing to listen to my viewpoint and meet me ‘at the table’. He could separate himself from controlling people around him and make solid decisions independently. He was able to view me as a unique person without sizing me up and comparing me to the controlling women around him. I think he was ‘Old World’ in more ways than one. Like me, I think that he was searching for spiritual balance with the opposite gender and I think that is the true test of a lasting relationship between men and women.

 

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Troy

What is an example of a code you think should be implemented?

 

A good code for AfroAmerican men to follow would be to not criticize eachother in public.
Do it in private and even then only after getting the FACTS straight about a particular incident.

Look at all these "beefs" that you see in the AfroAmerican community, especially between men in the entertainment industry.....most of it comes from people getting angry and violent about what they HEARD someone said about them or wanted to do to them.
But instead of going directly to the person in private (without an audience to instigate) to get to the bottom of things, the instead jump to conclusions and make plans to retaliate immediately....in part to save their reputation.
This leads to an escalation in conflict and often times ultimately to violence.

A code to demand all conflict between AfroAmerican males be handle ONLY AMONG OURSELVES and out of the media or public in general would be a good start.



 

 


Chev

Most of the relationships that I've seen that worked had a dominant person and submissive passive person. It could have even been a dominant female who was bossy and ran things with a passive male who just quietly sat back and give his input only every now and then; but as long as he kept his mouth shut and knew his place things were cool, lol.
Reminds me of Aunt Esther and Uncle Woody from Sandford and Son.

But over 75% of the time the dominant one is usually the man.
I think most woman are naturally passive but what's making a lot of problems is that this society is FORCING women to be more dominant and aggressive than they naturally are and it's not only making men feel uncomfortable and frustrated but even a most women don't find this role comfortable.

I'm of the belief that most AfroAmerican women aren't acting the way they REALLY want to act.
I think most AfroAmerican women who are independant and strong minded are that way because they are both taught and FORCED to be that way....not being able to rely on AfroAmerican men to shelter, protect, and provide for them.

I've seen the same AfroAmerican women who took pride in being independant and strong minded turn right around and take pride in being a stay at home wife and soccer mom as soon as she found a husband who was making enough money to take care of her so she didn't have to work, lol.

This society is engineering unnatural conditions among our people.

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@Pioneer1,   Forget about celebrity beefs. It is difficult to distinguish between actual beef and marketing hype to attract attention.

 

Also social media, media in generalexaggerate these beefs in order to attract an audience. In the real, World isn't the how most of us handle our conflicts a

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Troy


Forget about celebrity beefs. It is difficult to distinguish between actual beef and marketing hype to attract attention.


True, but regardless as to the origin of these beefs or their intent...their actual CONSEQUENCES have been devastating!
Children learn how to behave in society from WATCHING how adults act; not by listening to them.
When they turn on the television, go to the movies, or get online and see video after video after video of AfroAmerican men handling their conflicts and differences by cussing at eachother, threatening eachother, and eventually getting violent with eachother.....how else CAN they be towards eachother but violent?

A good example is the recent Nicki Minaj and Cardi B fight.
Whether it was real or staged, so many young AfroAmerican girls look up to both of these women and they are treated as role models. (which I find suprising because I don't consider either one of them authentic AfroAmericans). What type of message does two grow women throwing shoes at eachother send to the young girls who look up to them?
Which reminds me..........

*Another good code would be for us not to allow our women physically fight anymore.

I'm not sure when it actually stopped because girls were fighting when I was a kid too but from what i've heard there used to be a time in the AfroAmerican community that if two women were fighting in public a man or the men in the area would immediately break it up and send them their seperate ways and he would be respected.
Now....half of the men either ignore it or cheer it on hoping some clothes end up flying off.

How many other groups allow or even encourage their women to disgracefully fight and scrap with eachother in public like wolves or grizzly bears?

I don't know if other ethnic groups have a code for this or it's such a HUMAN thing to do that no code is necessary for it unless you're dealing with people who have reached such a savage condition that even the basic rules of humanity must be written out for them.

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@Pioneer1 did Cardi B and Minaj get into a physical brawl?  Again, the celebrity beefs are a completely different animal. The rise of social media not only instigates the beefs it ensures everyone is made aware of it.

 

Sure a good code would be to prohibit Black women (and men) from fighting each other.  My understanding is that the Nation of Islam has "codes" and they police their own.  You don't see any women in the Nation brawling in the streets.  They all carry themselves with grace and class.  Have you considered joining the Nation? 

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Yeah they fought eachother at some sort of Fashion Show the other week.
I don't even follow them but heard about it, I'm suprised you didn't....lol.
They started hitting eachother and throwing shoes at eachother and Cardi who JUST had a baby not too long ago ended up with a head injury.

It may be a celebrity beef but it certainly wasn't staged. It's typical behavior of a lot of young AfroAmerican women who are coming from the innercities. They aren't being taught how to be "ladies" and carry themselves in a respectable manner, they are being taught to be aggressive, fight, and say what's ever on their mind which leads directly to conflicts like this.
Cardi and Nicki didn't do anything unusual, they're just bringing that typical dysfunction that already exists in the hood onto the global stage and showing the world how disgraceful so many of our people have become.

It's very embarrasing bro.

 


I used to attend a lot of Nation of Islam lectures when I was younger. I even went to the Million Man March. I still believe in a lot of their philosophy but they don't believe in life after a physical death....and I do.
I believe the Nation of Islam is one of the best organizations out there for AfroAmericans today the way it cleans up and reforms our people in a way few other groups have been able to, but to be honest with you I'm beyond organized religion at this point.

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You have s break down in community across the board. You could be a life coach or start an etiquette school. When i was a kid girls and boys went to cotillions. It could be a successful alternative to nihilism. 

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@Delano they still have cotillions, it is just not for poor people. I did not attend one.

 

@Pioneer1, I'm not surprised I did not hear about it. If you think about how information like a cardio and nicki manaj brawl is disseminated, you'll understand how might have missed it.

 

The other benefit of the Nation is that you are not excluded if you are poor and uneducated. But I agree you have to contend with their religion...

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@Pioneer1

 

 

On 9/13/2018 at 11:00 PM, Pioneer1 said:

I think most woman are naturally passive but what's making a lot of problems is that this society is FORCING women to be more dominant and aggressive than they naturally are and it's not only making men feel uncomfortable and frustrated but even a most women don't find this role comfortable.

I think that this is the key phrase that goes much deeper than 'this society' that you said has been the cause for shaping us in an unnatural way. And I think this connect to you more recent thread in tht you might be 'changing' your beliefs. 

 

You discussed how AfroAmerican women fight each other by choice. Here you say, it is 'a conditioning' and that this society forced this behavior upon many of us. 

 

Again too, as I said, I agree here in tht it is 'a conditioning' that stems from how we have been shaped by this system. Our foundation here stems from 'children' that were enslaved. But then I also believe that we need to go back prior to this system being able to set up and dominate us and think about how it came to be that our 'adult' ancestors, prior to slavery, fell prey to this kind of domination. And by this process, I believe that Black AfroAmerican women do not only fight and are dominant, but some of us are DEFENSIVE more so. And this defensive position is misunderstood for being dominant and forceful. We 'attack' Black men sometimes DEFENSIVELY and due to feeling vulnerable and disrespected and then sometimes out of being disrespectful as well and not trying to  understand their plight. Also, some of us are CONFIDENT and have KNOWLEDGE OF SELF and this too is wrongfully being defined as DOMINANT.  

 

I believe that yes, many of us do feel vulnerable and do not have the protection from our men kind regarding, but this is not solely due to men. I think there is more to this vulnerability tht stems from much more. However, 'submissiveness' or 'passive' is not the answer to a balance, at least, not for me. 

 

To always feel you have to be DEFENSIVE is not good either. But I believe that when a RESPONSIBLE Black woman has ‘knowledge of self’, which includes knowing that she has the right to be, to have, to desire, … to be treated with love and respect as a positive asset to humanity then, she will not be submissive.

7 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

they don't believe in life after a physical death....

I did not know that. Now that, to me, is unnatural.

I know that is a significant belief system in the past. I think the term 'Epicureanism' may stem from this belief; The idea of 'living it up' and indulging in the search for self-gratification here and now. But, I cannot, for the life of me, understand how Black AfroAmericans being in a suppressive government like this would believe that this would be the extent of our life 'as a group'. If this is all that life has to offer me, then, there has got to be more, either now or in the future. 

 

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On 9/8/2018 at 9:07 PM, Delano said:

Yes but who leads, or rather whose vision is followed. 

 

Ah! That is the question.

@Delano

 

On 9/8/2018 at 11:27 AM, Troy said:

but in practice I can't see how it will work -- especially here in America, were there is so much diversity and individuality is a prized characteristic.

 

 

@Troy These are my thoughts.

 

I don't believe that people, as a whole, will ever follow the same leader. And, I believe that some people have a unique appeal and draw many people to them and become leaders, but not everyone will follow.  

 

I consider myself 'a good follower'. I don't choose to be a leader and feel that I am an awesome 'supporter' and have well thought out ideas, that could be a benefit to others who may have the similar ideas as myself and are better suited to be leaders. 

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@Chevdove  Many leaders with the charisma to attract a followers should not be leaders.  The scandalous leaders in the Black church, That @harry brown often laments, the catholic church leadership (for obvious reasons), as well as the current leader of the free world are prime examples.

 

The best leaders have the are usually put in the positions, they did not seek it.  In other words, they are seeking to make a positive charge and leadership was thrust upon them. 

 

Our culture rewards people with the willingness to do anything for power. Cardi B and Minaj my beat each other in pubic but they top the charts and are world famous.

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Troy

The other benefit of the Nation is that you are not excluded if you are poor and uneducated.


True; infact they go DIRECTLY AFTER those who are the poorest and least educated.
Elijah Muhammad taught that most of the well educated AfroAmericans with the professional jobs...along with the preachers....were one of the biggest obstacles to the success to our people, lol.

If you want to build a new society with new values, you start with people who are LEAST invested in the old society and have the least to lose by opting out of it.

 

 

 


 

Chev

 

You discussed how AfroAmerican women fight each other by choice. Here you say, it is 'a conditioning' and that this society forced this behavior upon many of us.

 

It's both conditioning AND choice.
Once a person is conditioned or trained into a particular way of life, they will continue to behave that way despite having options to choose from because it's all they know and feel the most comfortable with.

Kind of like women who constantly choose abusive men even over good ones because they grew up in an abusive household and those type of men are the only kind they "know".

 
But to be honest, every now and then I have to wonder ARE AfroAmerican women just naturally more violent and aggressive than other women because even when their violent or aggressive behavior in comparison to some other girls are pointed out I don't see a huge effort to try to change or be ashamed of that behavior.  It seems as if many take PRIDE in being angry and confrontational.   It's just embarassasing and shameful in MY opinion.
Why can't someone else's women get that "reputation"?


 

 

I did not know that. Now that, to me, is unnatural.

I know that is a significant belief system in the past. I think the term 'Epicureanism' may stem from this belief; The idea of 'living it up' and indulging in the search for self-gratification here and now. But, I cannot, for the life of me, understand how Black AfroAmericans being in a suppressive government like this would believe that this would be the extent of our life 'as a group'. If this is all that life has to offer me, then, there has got to be more, either now or in the future.


Many if not most people don't know that.
It's not taught to the public much by most ministers of the Nation of Islam because of how intolerable the concept is to most of our people, but it's actually part of Nation of Islam doctrine.

Believe it or not it DID have SOME value to it.
Since slavery so many AfroAmericans were deep into the church and Christianity and many of them didn't believe in standing up for themselves; they believed either in letting Jesus solve all their problems or waiting until they died and getting their reward after death.
When they started believing in the teachings of Elijah Muhammad and stopped believing in life after a physical death it FORCED them to own businesses and try to build as much wealth and power in this life as they could because they didn't expect anyting else afterwards.

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52 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

If you want to build a new society with new values, you start with people who are LEAST invested in the old society and have the least to lose by opting out of it.

 

Man @Pioneer1 this is an interesting point. Would it be more accurate to say start with those with nothing to lose? Is there a difference?

 

Too bad they don't let you eat bacon and drink a cold beer every once in a while....

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Troy


Man @Pioneer1 this is an interesting point. Would it be more accurate to say start with those with nothing to lose? Is there a difference?


Those with the "least to lose" or those with "nothing to lose", not too big of a difference.

I believe that everyone has SOMETHING to lose even if it's their life or the life of a loved one.
So "least to lose" would probably be a more accurate term.

But the point is, just like it was easier to convince the field negro to run away and abandon his master because he was experiencing the worst conditions and the system wasn't helping him at all.....it would seem that those at the bottom of society ( petty criminals, drug addicts, homeless, poverty stricken, ect....) have the fewwest reasons to support this system and it's values and would be more open to something "new" to try.


 

 

 

 

Too bad they don't let you eat bacon and drink a cold beer every once in a while....

I take a drink every now and then, usually socially....but I'm careful not to over induldge.
I've noticed that alcohol....more so than weed....has a much more profoudly negative effect on the minds of people of color than it does on Caucasians .

White people can drink until the fall out into a coma, but two days later they're normal again.
Most AfroAmericans and Asians when they get drunk it really messes their minds up for a week or two and even changes their personality.

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6 minutes ago, Pioneer1 said:

White people can drink until the fall out into a coma, but two days later they're normal again.

 

ROTFLMBAO!! You know that's right -- sheeeeeeit, they'd be straight the next morning drinking Bloody marys talking about the "hair of the dog." 

 

Coming from the 'hood and going to college I thought I was "bad" being able to knock out two 40's before hanging out -- those boys took drinking, and drugs to a 'hole 'nother level! Multi keg parties, beer pong, shit I never heard of and these where the smart kids.  To this day I remember at party with the girls basketball team.  I remember going but not leaving. 

 

Yeah some people can tolerate alcohol better that others just the same way some people can tolerate milk better than others...

 

 

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Caucasians can tolerate BOTH alcohol and milk much better than Africans, Asians, and Native Americans.

I used to stay in a hostel with Caucasians who were from all over the world.
Europe, the United States, Australia.....
And one of the things they all had in common was their love for alcohol.
Had to have wine with every meal, had to go out drinking every night, had to have special wines and liquores for every social occasion.

Doctors, lawyers, accountants, hitch-hikers, yoga instructors, even health nuts....but they all loved that alcohol.

Caucasians also seem to love the raw bitter taste of plain tobacco cigarettes like Marlboro while most AfroAmericans who smoke love NEWPORTS and other menthol flavored cigarettes.

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On 9/19/2018 at 10:14 AM, Troy said:

Cardi B and Minaj my beat each other in pubic but they top the charts and are world famous.

 

@Troy LOL I have heard of Minaj and I think she is the one with the pink hair, but, that is all I know about her and I never heard of the other girl except that I read that they had a fight of which was on the titles on the internet. So, I can see why these two girls would be thought as 'leaders' to the Y Generation though. Some of the fads going on today, I thinks is due to selected leadership so, this to me would be 'bad leadership. 

 

I just don't understand how 'SAGGIN' could become so common except to say that propaganda byway of certain music celebrities or something has caused it to become common. It is so crazy to me though. I remember it started in the 1980s and I thought it would die out, Oh But NOOOOoooo! When I was in MIddle America in a predominantly Black community, most of the young men were saggin. In Florida this style is common. NOw even a lot of females are Saggin. ....... leadership..... 

 

On 9/19/2018 at 8:05 PM, Pioneer1 said:

But to be honest, every now and then I have to wonder ARE AfroAmerican women just naturally more violent and aggressive than other women

 

@Pioneer1 No. not at all. It is conditioning based on my research. When you watch the Olympics, it is the Black athletes, both men and women, percentage wise that are at the finish line. Therefore, we have more spirit more power that can be used for good or for bad. We have SOUL. But had it not been for conditioning, the LOVE and SISTERHOOD would be just as intense as the HATE and VIOLENCE amongst Black AfroAmerican women. This conditioning does not start in this government though. The origin of this conditioning goes way back in time.

 

On 9/19/2018 at 8:05 PM, Pioneer1 said:

Why can't someone else's women get that "reputation"?

 

Because they were not first. No one stocked other kinds of women to condition them to be negative like the Black African-typed women have been targeted. That's why.

On 9/19/2018 at 8:05 PM, Pioneer1 said:

When they started believing in the teachings of Elijah Muhammad and stopped believing in life after a physical death it FORCED them to own businesses and try to build as much wealth and power in this life as they could because they didn't expect anyting else afterwards.

 

But operating under 'the White House' and trying to build as much wealth and power in this life' can be very misleading too. That to me, is a short sighted vision. 

To fight back against wrongdoing is important to me and this would include gaining wealth as well. To settle for poverty and getting rich after death is not the focus and this kis not what Christianity in Jesus professes, but that is the White man's version. That is not in the Bible. 

 

 

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On 9/19/2018 at 9:35 PM, Pioneer1 said:

.it would seem that those at the bottom of society ( petty criminals, drug addicts, homeless, poverty stricken, ect....) have the fewwest reasons to support this system and it's values and would be more open to something "new" to try.

 

This has changed drastically! 

 

This government legalizing HOMOSEXUALITY and LESBIANISM has completely changed this focus and now many of the poor and oppressed support this system because of this reason and therefore, they support this system and fight to be apart of this system in that plight. Most people want to be accepted in this system but they are not looking at the economy. Something is happening to the money system. Trade and distribution is a problem and our lawmakers are trying to allocate funds in a way that, if we don't follow the money system, we wont be able to see the bigger picture. The dollar bill is shrinking, IMO.  

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Chev

I just don't understand how 'SAGGIN' could become so common except to say that propaganda byway of certain music celebrities or something has caused it to become common. It is so crazy to me though. I remember it started in the 1980s and I thought it would die out, Oh But NOOOOoooo! When I was in MIddle America in a predominantly Black community, most of the young men were saggin. In Florida this style is common. NOw even a lot of females are Saggin. ....... leadership.....


Not only does saggin' look sloppy and immature, but it makes the boys walk funny.....like penguins.
Or like apes who try to stand on their weaker hind legs and have to rock from side to side to keep balance.

When I was a kid back in the 70s AfroAmerican men used to STRUT and BOUNCE when they walked; they had style.  Now look at how so many of the young men walk; they have to wobble and rock from side to side to keep their pants on.  Another problem is women often look at how firm a man's butt is in judging him.  Black men used to be known for having the "best butts".  Sagging makes a 19 or 20 year old man's butt look flabby and sloppy like a sack of potatoes moving around under his pants.






This conditioning does not start in this government though. The origin of this conditioning goes way back in time.


If it didn't start with this government OR under the influence and control of White people, then when and where did it start?
And WHO started it?

 

 

 



Because they were not first. No one stocked other kinds of women to condition them to be negative like the Black African-typed women have been targeted. That's why


I believe the Black woman has been targeted to be influenced, however when you have both AfroAmerican men AND women who seem to take pride in the "strength" and aggressive attitude and behavior of our women....don't you believe our people share in some of that responsibility?

Some outside force may have targeted our people for certain behaviors, but that doesn't mean we have to voluntarily co-sign and perpetuate it.


 

 

 


But operating under 'the White House' and trying to build as much wealth and power in this life' can be very misleading too. That to me, is a short sighted vision.


I agree.
We need balance.

That's why I personally believe that we should seek pleasure and wealth in BOTH this life as well as the eternal life to come.
It is my belief that by maintaining a strong sense of morality and righteousness in this life we stand a better chance for a more successful existence in the life to come.


As far as the economy goes........

 

America is for sale.

The dollar is shrinking because it's purposely being de-valued for globalistic purposes.
Under GLOBALISM, there are no more borders or economic sovereignty. A minority of wealthy oligarchs are controling most of the world's economies so that most of the currencies and the governments that oversee them are becoming less and less relevant.

 

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@Pioneer1 LOL. Yes. Saggin is just awful, IMO. 

 

10 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

If it didn't start with this government OR under the influence and control of White people, then when and where did it start?
And WHO started it?

If it didn't start with this government OR under the influence and control of White people, then [1] when and [2] where did it start?
And
[3] WHO started it?
[1] Prior to modern mankind. The Black presence that goes ‘way back in time’ is marked by science and script in that they once existed and so, due to the presence of Neanderthal’s who are definitely non-Black and also, non-African, they represent (a) a mutated version [& (b) recessive version as well] of what was once a Black presence on this planet. [3] White Supremacy was started by ‘a Black presence’. We, today in all walks of life, White people and Black people and etc. are carrying this insane format but, this issue began at some remote time. Black African people became ‘introduced’ and ‘exposed’ to this concept but, based on my research, it did not start with us. White Modern mankind, if they so choose, become BENEFACTORS of White Supremacy but they too, did not start this insanity, they only carry on the format. Colorism and White Supremacy are Global concepts that are accepted as being normal when it is not. Biblically speaking, Satanism and White Supremacy is synonymous. Satanism, White Supremacy & the Ultimate SIN of IDOLATRY correlate one to another. [3] It was introduced in ‘the Garden of Eden’ to the modern man and woman. . . by a mutated White ‘being’ that had the same DNA as his Black ancestors, and reproduction is the constant ill-fruits of this Original sin. [2] WHERE? White Supremacy was introduced from THE EAST.   

 

....don't you believe our people share in some of that responsibility?
Yes, absolutely.

 

Some outside force may have targeted our people for certain behaviors, but that doesn't mean we have to voluntarily co-sign and perpetuate it.
The problem is though, that we have been exploited from birth and as slave children. Our ancestors accepted White Domination… which in turn, led to the enslavement of African children. So now, it is not ‘a voluntary co-signing’ and therefore, we perpetuate it, out of ignorance. This is a governmental issue, a governmental movement.

 

I agree. We need balance. That's why I personally believe that we should seek pleasure and wealth in BOTH this life as well as the eternal life to come. It is my belief that by maintaining a strong sense of morality and righteousness in this life we stand a better chance for a more successful existence in the life to come.
---

I agree absolutely!

 

As far as the economy goes........ America is for sale.

The dollar is shrinking because it's purposely being de-valued for globalistic purposes.
Under GLOBALISM, there are no more borders or economic sovereignty. A minority of wealthy oligarchs are controling most of the world's economies so that most of the currencies and the governments that oversee them are becoming less and less relevant.

 

Thank for this breakdown! This is scary, but I can see it happening as you say when I go to the store. Someone just showed me a small box of raisins yesterday bought from the local grocery store. It said, “Made in Afghanistan”!

 

 

 

 

 

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@Chevdove Neanthedals emerged from Africa like Homo Sapiens.  I never heard anyone apply the artificial construct of race to Neandethals.  Why do you apply that term to that species of human?

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21 hours ago, Troy said:

Neanthedals emerged from Africa like Homo Sapiens

 

@Troy Did thay? I based my statements about Homo Sapiens being from Africa on the information about the Y-DNA HAPLO GROUP research. 

But as for the SPECIES Homo NEANDERTHALENSIS, I never considered that they actually 'emerged from Africa' as you say. But then this is what

some scientist allude to in their 'Out of Africa' statements. I know the other archeology of the earlier homonids, some of them, are said to be

found in Africa. Some like the Homo Florensiensis they say were found in Europe and others in other parts of the earth. They group them based on

certain details like, how they each compare and contrast to having such things as 'low foreheads', 'the thickness of the brow ridge', the width of the nose

opening', 'the slope of the chin', and etc. I thought the Neanderthal range was somewhere else, and not Africa. But I don't know for sure. I thought they 

said the earlier homonid that they believe came much earlier than the Neanderthals were indeed in Africa, but that the Neanderthals came at a later time and 

were not actually in Africa when they 'emerged'. But again, I am not sure. So, you may be right. 

 

22 hours ago, Troy said:

I never heard anyone apply the artificial construct of race to Neandethals. 

 Did I? Again, if I did, I didn't mean to define them as 'a race' but as 'a species'. They are listed as a distinct species in the Smithsonian.

HOMO NEANDERTHALENSIS

22 hours ago, Troy said:

Why do you apply that term to that species of human?

 

Again, if I did, it was a mistake. 

 

 

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On 9/25/2018 at 10:14 AM, Chevdove said:

Neanderthal’s who are definitely non-Black and also, non-African

 

 

@Chevdove, perhaps my mind is playing tricks on me, but I could have sworn I read that your wrote that Neanderthals were white (maybe i read this statement and inferred the rest).  I any event, I don't see where that statement, so it looks like I as wrong in attributing the statement to you -- my bad.

 

Still when you apply racial terms like "non-Black" to different species of humans it just causes confusion because the terms don't apply -- indeed they don't apply to homo sapiens either (save a social construct of the last few hundred years). 

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@Troy Yes, I can see where that term "non-Black" would be problematic, but then, I think this term is problematic in many other ways too, as you have said here, however, I use it sometimes, not realizing how it can be mis-construed. 

 

5 minutes ago, Troy said:

...it just causes confusion because the terms don't apply -- indeed they don't apply to homo sapiens either (save a social construct of the last few hundred years). 

 

Again, I agree. But because this term 'Black' and 'White' are still on all federal applications, I sometimes use this term, and now, I may need to try and qualify it though. 

 

Scientist definitely separate Neanderthals though from the darker skinned homonids even in the Smithosonian and they date these darker ones to have existed prior to theNeanderthals. So, again, I use the term 'white' and 'black' in terms of what is accepted today, but I agree that technically, it just does not fit a complete concept. 

 

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Chev

 

White Supremacy was started by ‘a Black presence’

White Supremacy & the Ultimate SIN of IDOLATRY correlate one to another. [3] It was introduced in ‘the Garden of Eden’ to the modern man and woman. . . by a mutated White ‘being’ that had the same DNA as his Black ancestors, and reproduction is the constant ill-fruits of this Original sin.


Much of what you're saying sounds similar to Nation of Islam theology.

They teach that the idea of White Supremacy was started by a Black man named Yacub and his disciples who wanted to make an "unalike" people to rule people of color about 6,000 years ago.

 

 




The problem is though, that we have been exploited from birth and as slave children. Our ancestors accepted White Domination… which in turn, led to the enslavement of African children. So now, it is not ‘a voluntary co-signing’ and therefore, we perpetuate it, out of ignorance.


While our people were still in PHYSICAL slavery they didn't have much of a choice. But now that most of them have been PHYSICALLY free for atleast 50 years and have the freedom to read, enlighten themselves, and choose a different lifestyle....the fact that many of our families and communities are STILL dysfunctional can't be blamed primarily on the after effects of slavery.

For example the gang banging that has been occurring in Los Angeles for the past 20 or 30 years.
Those are young men who for DECADES have taken pride and delight in murdering other men of color, violence, and smoking dope.

How can that be attributed to slavery or it's after effects?

I think most of them are doing it because they WANT to and if racism had never even existed they probably would have STILL been doing it....only with arrows, rocks, and swords instead of guns.

It appears that many of our people whether in the Americas or in Africa have had tribal beefs and wars that go back centuries even before slavery and colonialism. The only thing Caucasians did was INTERRUPT the foolishness some of them were engaging in already. And now that Caucasians have physically left much of Africa many of them are going right back to it.

 

 


 

 

Thank for this breakdown! This is scary, but I can see it happening as you say when I go to the store. Someone just showed me a small box of raisins yesterday bought from the local grocery store. It said, "Made in Afghanistan"!

 

Well people better becareful with so-called "raisins" made in Afrganistan.
You might get an opium high off of them or end up a heroin addict....lol.

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17 hours ago, Pioneer1 said:

Nation of Islam theology.

They teach that the idea of White Supremacy was started by a Black man named Yacub and his disciples who wanted to make an "unalike" people to rule people of color about 6,000 years ago.

 

@Pioneer1 No, I absolutely do NOT agree with this statement. Can you provide some references to the term "Yacub" dated 6,000 years ago [ie. 4000 BC] in which was the beginning of the White Suprecacist movement?

 

I stated that the White Supremacy MOvement started long before 4000 BC! The now EXTINCT Homonids prior to the Neanderthals existed for thousands of years before even the Neanderthals are dated to exist, based on the Smithsonian. ~ 500,000 years ago. 

 

The Black origins I refer to is now extinct and they won't be coming back LOL! 

"...the fact that many of our families and communities are STILL dysfunctional can't be blamed primarily on the after effects of slavery."

 

So true. I agree.

 

"How can that be attributed to slavery or it's after effects?"

 

I think this answer is in your previous statement:

 

"Those are young men..."

 

Hence, the very problem. They are young men . . . and you continued . . . 

 

"Those are young men who for DECADES have taken pride and delight in murdering other men of color, violence, and smoking dope."

 

DECADES . . . You need to go a little farther back to about 400 years on the slave yard where this kind of behavior was rewarded. 

 

 

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